i hope i didn't sound like i was attacking you, 1989. your post was just the occasion for an overreaction to the enraged disappointment i anticipated would be all over the forum after tonight's game.

right on, thanks for the correction.

actually, i think -- media designations and fan identifications aside -- both of these have been aspects of the team's identity, on and off, throughout the past four years or so (the lakers final was the only really easy series, and it was easy i think because everyone thought it would be hard). I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "necessary" here. necessary for what? for the team to win series'? but they've still been doing that so far. i don't know if i'd call it an excuse so much as something like a neurosis, and one that's been there since they fell back of orlando 3-1 in 2003, right alongside going to work.

i have my doubts about this series too. they just don't outweigh my confidence. and i agree that miami is better than cleveland. i just don't think they are better than the pistons. I do acknowledge that they are close enough to detroit to take the series if we don't pick it up. but that's my whole point: i think we will pick it up. and i don't think miami will win the series, which is all i really care about.

again, i'm not trying to be combative, but i'm really not understanding what you mean by "necessary" here.

i don't know, man, it''s just who this team is, and it's frustrating to me too, but, as i have said ad nauseum on this forum (my own form of insanity, no doubt), i can't do anything about it, and -- given that the signs could point more or less either way -- i'd rather choose to believe they're gonna pull it out. doubts just don't help me enjoy the games even a little bit. but to each his own pleasures, so i should probably just let it go...

They both need to let Rick Barry teach them how to shoot free throws underhanded like he used to, to improve their percentages, so they can stop embarrassing themselves at the line and killing their teams every game.

A few years back, Rick Barry was actually teaching Shaq, but when push came to shove, Shaq changed his mind because he was embarrassed to go out on the floor and actually use the technique because he was afraid he would lose his "street cred."

That just goes to show how selfish some players really are. Unwilling to go the extra mile for the better of the team.

The shot chart is hideous. Look how many shots we took in the paint.

Pistons/Miami shot chart

My link isn't working. We all saw how many shots we didn't take inside.

4 fast break points for the Pistons? I don't even remember seeing any. And this is a team that we should be forcing the action against.

Also, did we get a single dunk this game? Ben, Rip, Chauncey, Tay, No. Sheed? I don't remember one. McDyess, don't think so. I can't EVER remember a Pistons game without 1 dunk by us. That is some weak sauce.

Overall, this was a pretty non-emotional game from the Pistons. Sheed needed to get T'd up or something.

The NBA does not "mind" if the Pistons win game 4, so it will probably happen. Then, we are in the driver's seat once again.

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"I’ll just say this: We’re not talking to teams about their second- or third-best players." Joe Dumars talking about his plan to get other teams' 4th best players.

The bad part is that we took 2 in the 4th and missed both!!!

All is cool professor, all is cool.

Re: Miami. I agree that we are better than the Heat when we are at our best. At our best, I don't think anyone in the league can hang with us -- not the Heat, not the Mavs, and certainly not the Suns. But we're not playing at that level with any consistency.

Re: Inconsistency. This crew has never exhibited that primal quality required to kill a team and put them away in 4. They never will. That's fine. But, I contend that there's a difference between not having the extra gear required to destroy a desperate team on the ropes, and showing up only every other game. This last phenomenon is not something I ever really associated with this Pistons team until these playoffs.

Re: What is "necessary". What is "necessary" in my opinion is a consistent effort from one game to another. Even with such an effort, the team may need to go the distance, or even come out on the losing end. I can live with that. But without a consistent effort, they lose games "unnecessarily", to say nothing of losing my support.

It's the way we're palying that makes me more angry than the loss. We had to stoop down so low that we had to pull off the Hack a Shaq. That's not how basketball is supposed to be played.

there is a difference, no doubt and it's a useful distinction to draw. my question in that case would be how many guys have to "show up"? Because for me the thing of late has been that one guy shows up, and then another disappears (like chauncey showing up tonight, and tay disappearing; after chauncey having been gone for several games, and tay having been strong).

It's a rough guesstimate for sure, but I'd say we are most definitely not talented enough as individuals to win against top teams when only 1 guy shows up. with luck, we'll win occasionally when only 2 show up, depending on which 2. then, we tend to win most games when 3 show up. and dominate when 4 or more show up. Tay, for example, has been huge of late. But I don't agree with people who see his showing up as the key to our success. I think it's more critical important that Chauncey, Rip, and Sheed show up (assuming of course I'm not allowed to just have everyone show up). Tonight, Chauncey was pretty much there the whole game. Rip was there the first half. Sheed was there the second. I'm just kinda watching these games to see who is getting close...

miami really didn't beat us by much tonight, despite playing at home, despite huge games from wade and shaq, despite that we really had only 1 full guy, and 2 half guys show up. Of course, that doesn't make this a necessary loss -- on the contrary it proves your point that this was an unnecessary loss. but it doesn't make it for me a disheartening loss.


10-4. I can accept that definition of an "unnecessary loss". But I'd still maintain that unnecessary losses have been a fairly regular part of this group's playoff history going back to 2003. Perhaps not to the degree we've seen since game 3 of the Cavs series this year. But the unnecessary playoff loss is not in my view new to this year's squad. And i guess, finally, that i don't need them to bring consistent effort to maintain my support. i've said lots of times that it's part of what endears them to me. their inconsistency makes them feel a lot more like me; as, i'd like to think, does their reliability when the chips are down (even or especially because the holes they climb out of are self-dug).

I believe the sentiment is that the Miami Heat are only so good of a basketball team (namely, theoretically not as good of a basketball team as the Pistons are), and so, if the Pistons play at the top of their game, can only do so much/win so many games in this series. That's "necessary" and unavoidable. When the Pistons play below that point, beyond anything directly forced by Miami, they unnecessarily make things a lot more difficult on themselves.