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At one time the rest of the pacers were freezing him (Jasikevicius) out Stephen Jackson especially. They have zero leadership, ...

 
 
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Old 04-09-2006, 08:52 PM
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Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

At one time the rest of the pacers were freezing him (Jasikevicius) out Stephen Jackson especially. They have zero leadership, and RC has no control of the team imo. I think they will get swept in the first round regardless of who they play and they will implode. That team is in a crash and burn state and we can thank Ron Ron 4 that
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Old 04-09-2006, 09:01 PM
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Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abe Froemen
At one time the rest of the pacers were freezing him (Jasikevicius) out Stephen Jackson especially. They have zero leadership, and RC has no control of the team imo. I think they will get swept in the first round regardless of who they play and they will implode. That team is in a crash and burn state and we can thank Ron Ron 4 that
Thats not very productive. Why would they do that?
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Old 04-09-2006, 09:02 PM
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Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

Man between Delk and Dyess and Hunter, the bench looks competative. I liked what they brought.

They had good ball movement for most of the game and that left the Pacer defense rotating wihich allowed Ben and Dyess open lanes to the glass. Guys always seemed to make the extra pass and a few times it was a little too extra but you gotta love that teamwork. The ball went through Ben's hands a lot and he moved the ball well. Add to that his offensive rebounding and kick out and he contributed greatly to the teams offense.

Dyess was all over the place. He brought a lot of hustle and energy. As a fan I felt confident when he came in. Hunter bit a few times on pump fakes and fouled Jaskksksks on a three point attempt but he was on fire on the other side. He owned Sarunas on both ends.

I liked how Prince attacked the basket...especially the baseline spin from the low post. He was part of a balanced attack that didn't have to keep going to the same option the whole game. Delk is a good back up 2. Aggressive. I'd be more comfortable with a little better decision making/passing betoween Delk and Hunter but otherwise I like having them come in.
I didn't care for Mo but he made as many good plays as he did bad ones.

In the second half, the pistons played a good stifling brand of defense that took JO out of the game. Good effort level overall.
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Old 04-09-2006, 09:04 PM
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Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

Perhaps Shine can jump in anytime here as I have not watched a ton of Pacer games.

Seems like the owner is active and cares about his team. So we should see a lot of changes over the summer. Perhaps even firing Bird and Carlisle. Not a popular move to fire Bird but what has he really done?
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Old 04-09-2006, 09:07 PM
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Thumbs down Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

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Originally Posted by max
Thats not very productive. Why would they do that?
The same reason Jackson screamed "Oh yeah!" after dunking when his team was down 20+. It's a completely dysfunctional team, and some players don't like passing to certain other players. I agree that Carlisle has found a way to completely alienate himself from his players, and at this point most of them seem to have quit, and arguably those that haven't are just auditioning themselves for trades.

(Well, Jackson just doesn't like to pass, period.)
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Old 04-09-2006, 09:14 PM
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Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

ahb - Can Bird and Carlisle be seperated or will the 2 have to be fired together? That is would Bird ever fire Rick?
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Old 04-09-2006, 09:21 PM
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Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

I'm hardly an expert, but I strongly expect that Carlisle will be fired/not re-signed unless there are huge personnel changes (i.e., at least the trade of Jermaine O'Neal) this summer. I don't know what Donnie Walsh will do with Bird, but "Larry Legend" hasn't done much in Indianapolis, and has as much to do with causing the current situation as anyone. I'm pretty sure that Walsh has resumed a more active role in the organization over the last year, and the final word would come from him, not Bird.
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Old 04-09-2006, 10:23 PM
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Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahb
To expand your list of "Euros" who play above-average defense by NBA standards: Boris Diaw, Tony Parker, Andris Biedrins, Marko Jaric, Beno Udrih, Viktor Khryapa, Sasha Vujacic, Pau Gasol, and - I don't care what his reputation is, or how soft he is, he's at least a decent defensive player - Peja Stojakovic. And most of the "South American Euros" are pretty good defenders, too: Ginobili, Delfino, Nocioni, Barbosa, Varejao, Najera. Add in the "Chinese Euro", Yao - one of the top defensive centers in the NBA - and I'd say that Europeans play defense in approximately the same ratio to their general population as Americans do.
Identifying defensive talent is tough and subject to ones personal criteria.... Physical quickness, anticipation, mental capacity to recognize & react, physical strength and fortitude to break picks and hold position would be some of the important factors.
Typically the Euros don't focus as much to developing the strength attributes required.
I'm not going to comment on some of the names on your list... just ask that you reevaluate your opinions on what adequate defense is. The word "Soft" comes to mind.
I will agree that some Latin (and African American) Euros tend to possesion quicker muscle reflexes which can be a key component to sticking with your man... I tend to believe that shot blocking is overrated...
Kirilenko is willing to get down & dirty on "D"... Barbosa certainly has potential (sorry Bills) with his exceptional quickness & wingspan...
I'll stick with the original thought that the percentages are low of good Euro defnders.
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Old 04-09-2006, 10:43 PM
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Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

Jermaine O'Neal postgame quotes...

Quote:
"The last two or three weeks have pretty much been the same thing. We just will not play defense," O'Neal said. "At this point, we don't even deserve to be in the playoffs."
Quote:
"We are embarrassing ourselves each and every night," O'Neal said. "There are talkers and there are doers. All we are is a talking team.
Quote:
"I don't know if we are tanking the season, or if we just don't want to go to the playoffs, but we're getting murdered every night on the defensive end."
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Old 04-09-2006, 10:47 PM
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Re: Pistons Vs Pacers ~ April 9th, 2006

None of the Argentines are Latino. Delfino, Ginobili, and Nocioni are probably of mostly Italian ancestry.

A couple of final points:
* I'm not talking about talent or potential or athleticism or physical attributes that can be extrapolated; I'm not trying to construct a perfect defensive player from a list of "important factors". I'm talking about history and demonstrated success. Leandrinho Barbosa is a very good defender. Tony Parker one of the better defensive point guards in the NBA.
* If you consider shotblocking overrated, I find it curious that you think Kirilenko is a good defender. He's a poor-to-average man defender, like Gerald Wallace or Shawn Marion.
* Softness doesn't necessarily have much to do with how good a defender you are. I would consider Tayshaun Prince a very soft player, and he's widely recognized as an above-average defender. Peja Stojakovic is an extremely soft player, but he's only marginally worse defensively than Prince is. Rasho Nesterovic is as soft as they come, but he's a huge improvement defensively over Nazr Mohammed, a more physical player.

I'll stick with my original thought that the percentages are similar. I'm not sure whether Mo Evans counts as a Euro, that being where he spent most of his career, but he's living proof that there are Americans in the NBA who can be awful defensively. Or... take your pick. Jalen Rose? Vince Carter? LeBron James? Allen Iverson? Zach Randolph? Jason Williams and Dwyane Wade? I'd say that the majority of NBA players, no matter what minor leagues or nation they came from, are not very effective defensively.
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