Yeah right.

I guess I don't understand how an 8 man rotation is "playing the bench more".

From the FreePress:

"We wanted to try establishing our bench more," Saunders said. "So basically we're playing three guys a little bit more minutes. I think what happens you get a chance to get in a comfort zone."

Sometime down the road, Saunders will likely add one more player to that mix. But for now, he wants to go with McDyess and guards Tony Delk and Maurice Evans as his three contributors off the bench.

So, that means...?

Is our bench really that bad?

Or is it that coaches (Flip and LB) just get so comfortable using the starting 5 that anyone else is inferior?

I mean the DNP-Coaches Decision list from last night is pretty long... Hunter, Delfino, Dale Davis, Maxiell, and Kato (is he healthy yet?). Especially long on big men.

Aren't we gonna need these bigs (at least one more) to get in the game plan?

I know Flip wasn't around here last playoffs, but I think he must've been watching them... couldn't he learn from LB's mistakes?

Seems to me that Joe D has got all of the players a championship team would need... and is leaving it up to the coach... but it doesn't seem that the coach has noticed.

If he doesn't trust these players enough in the regular season, he'll be even more reluctant to play them in the playoffs, when he needs them most.

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I think its a matter of having good intentions (hence talking the talk in the media) but then he clams up during the game and knows that he has the best starting 5 in the league. The more he talks without backing it up, the more credability he loses.

The strength of the starters are the EXACT reason why he shouldn't fear playing his bench more. He has the best starting 5 in the league to fall back on if the bench faulters (while still giving the bench an opportunity to learn from their mistakes and play through rough stretches. They need a bit of slack in the leash). That's a pretty nice Ace in the hole if you ask me.

The starters are the best at closing out quarters, so why not let the bench get some minutes in the early/mid quarters - when the starters normally coast anyway, and then stick the starters back in there when it matters. The starters get some rest, the bench gets some meaningful PT and I don't complain as much. Its a win, win, win situation.

I don't think our bench is that bad. I think they're unproven. There may be more of a drop off from the starters than most teams, but thats because our starters are better than most teams, not because our bench is worse.

A competitively talented bench + a superior starting five should still = wins most nights. Playing our starters to death is just overkill.

Flip puts us behind the 8 ball most nights because its our starting 5 vs. their starting 5 + their bench. Flip is basically saying that he doesn't trust our bench to go up against their bench.

Putting our bench in the game means that Flip might actually have to coach. He needs to put our guys (bench) in situations for them to succeed.

I'm sure people will argue that none of our starters are near the top of the league in minutes. True, but I'm willing to bet that they're at or very near the top when you add their minutes together and divide by 5. We don't have a huge drop off in minutes from 1-5 that most teams do.

Its put up or shut up time for Flip.

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You guys got me on Delfino. I understand why Evans plays ( Delfino is done thread ) but for Delfino to get these flat out DNP's is beyond me.

On Hunter. He had food poisoning last week and was sick with something else. He will play. Also Flip is trying to get Delk's legs back as he has not played all season so once he gets up to speed. Can't complain too much about Delk though.

like max said lindsey has food poisoning, kato is injured, and I don't think maxiell will play for us a whole lot this season. as for delfino and dale i think they should play with tony, maurice, and dice.

I'm a little confused. Rotation size (number of players) is a subjective term. Ask ten guys what they think makes an effective rotation in general and you'll probably get 5 different answers.

Ask them what rotation size they think their own team should use to win it all and you'll probably get 8 different answers.

Ask what an effective regular season rotation number works best as opposed to a play-off ready rotation and you should get 10 different answers.

It's all in the subjective eye of the beholder. One issue being a pure number issue and the other being based on personal bias, (who they like the best and who they like the least.)

But the fact is it's mid-March, early play-off mode and most of the teams that are playoff locks either already have or will soon be shortening their rotations.

The number 8 is not an un-heard of number. It's probably the average used by most teams, maybe not the deepest teams but certainly in line with the average team making the play-offs.

I'm not counting Delfino out unless he's left off the final roster which isn't going to happen. In the final analysis it's a game of match-ups, playing a series of games and optimizing your emerging mis-match opportunites.

I'm pretty sure Flip will dial CD in for some quality minutes in the play-offs if the mis-match is on the hardwoods...

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"Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down"...Jimmy Durante

when i played ball, 7 was the perfect number of players for me. 8 is ok. i just hated coming off the court. but we didn't play 4-5 games a week, we played 2.

we will have to come up with a name for the syndrome coaches get from coaching this team. as soon as they get behind the wheels of the starting 5 they get greedy (couldn't think of a better word). even up 15 with 2 minutes to go the other night, flip still didn't put the bench in.
theres always an excuse - we have 3 nights off after this, they weren't tired, blah blah blah.

dale and delfino deserve to play. we will need them against the spurs who go 10 deep. i'm sick of scared coaches.

get some balls please and stick up for your decisions!! don't tell me after the game "i should have done this, i will do this in the future..." ARRGHH!

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My bottom line is that the starters are not averaging too many minutes. Here's the current rankings...

CB - 36th in league in minutes per game
RH - 43rd
BW - 46th
TP - 49th
RW - 51st

They haven't been hurt and they're good. They range from 37 to a bit under 36 per game. All well and good as far as I'm concerned.

Personally, I would rather see Delfino than Evans, but that's enother thread (or six). And they do need to figure out what Delk can do, so he needs to play.

The key for me is whether Flip extends the bench minutes and players when the Pistons are up by a substantial margin in the second half of games. While that hasn't been a problem lately, it was a number of times earlier in the season, and still the starters played heavy third and fourth quarter minutes. I'm not arguing that five or ten more minutes in blow-outs will wear the starters out for the post-season, but every minute they play when the game is won is both a chance for injury and a missed opportunity to keep other guys in shape.

Assuming we ever blow another team out again, if we then don't see other guys in the game, that's when we need to take Mr Foghorn to task.

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"But first, are you experienced? Or have you you ever been experienced? Well, I have."
Jimi

I don't even have a problem with that - as long as the coach actually LEARNS from his mistakes and then DOES what he says he's going to in the future.

Flip has been all talk and no action. He hasn't backed up anything he's been saying. THAT is what really ARRGHH's me!!!

exactly. just say "i don't feel the need to play a lot of guys". then stand by what you believe in.

this coulda, shoulda, woulda speak is sounding too pacer-ish if you ask me...

I'm still not convinced. Delfino IMHO has shown enough to be getting more minutes than Mo but he isn't. Ok, so why can't he get at least EQUAL MINUTES? I swear, Flip's ability to judge talent has really got me doubting him more and more. Delfino's defense and ability to run the fastbreak after a steal or a rebound is INVALUABLE because he can help change tempo and get us easy points.

Call me a "Mo Hater" but I just don't see how he is better than Delfino to the point where he is taking minutes away from him. IMO Delf can play both SG/SF and play better D on either position. I really don't see how Flip can ignore Delfino's defensive contributions and ball-handling. He helps keep the offense running smooth when he gets the ball in the open court. We NEED DELFINO to make us a better team.