I agree with Bill Laimbeer. The guy who left Isiah off the list is a hater. I wouldn't trade Isiah for any of them. Objectively, I'd probably place him behind Magic and Oscar, and probably right ahead of West and Frazier. Certainly ahead of Stockton and the rest.

Tyskillz: I think you were kind of rough on that guy. He only asked a question.

Your post was going a little overboard. You have to keep in mind that not everyone that posts in or reads the forum is a life long fan for 20 years. Some people who are fans now aren't even old enough to know who Thomas was. And there are new fans coming on every year, who may or may not know the Pistons' history.

The last thing we want to do is scare off some other folks from wanting to post, for fear of being jumped on as well.

Indeed Zoso and a few others have made your point, I should not expect everyone to know their Pistons homework/history so astutely & accurately. So perhaps I did come off a bit harsh, but for a die hard like myself it just seems like being a Pistons fan and not knowing who Zeke is, is rather ridiculous.... Especially on a thread discussing the man's place in history amongst the greatest PG's to ever play, SHEESH (lol)! Anyway I truly don't wish to scare off any TRUE Pistons fans new or old (only trolls, ignorant naysayers, and haters), so I guess it's sort of the job of us vets/more enlightened posters to school those not so up to speed yet.

GO PISTONS!!!!!

p.s. Keep in mind folks I never called the dude out of his name, and did indeed welcome him to the board (after informing him of how far out of the loop he was).

That not one person feel like Nate "tiny" Archibald is top 5. The only guy in the history of the game to lead the league in scoring and assist in same season. One of the 50 greatest players of all time. NBA champ, numerous all star's and and all NBA teams. Tiny was the total package.

Kind of late to the discussion, but I only just arrived....

Charley Rosen's list of point guards doesn't make any sense to me. I don't begrudge him any of his choices, even if some of them are a bit unusual (DJ) or completely out of leftfield (Ralph Beard, who I'd never heard of until reading the column). But I really don't understand how someone can draw up a list like this without Isiah being part of it.

Interestingly, Cousy doesn't make the list either, and Nate the Skate doesn't even get a mention. Nor does GP (I've always liked GP). Even though he's not one of the all-time greats, Kevin Johnson was pretty spectacular in the early 90s. If you include AI as a point, I think he should not only get a mention, but actually be on the list itself.

Anyway, back to Isiah. He was so fierce, so determined, so scrappy, and such a wizard on offense -- an unstoppable scorer when hot, and a fantastic passer as well. He was the heart and soul of an Indiana team that won the NCAA title, and of a Pistons team that put an end to the Celts' run of 19 Finals appearances in 31 seasons, that put an end to the Lakers' run of 5 championships in 9 seasons, and that held off an up-and-coming Bulls team for three consecutive years, winning two championships of his own along the way. How do you argue with that? Obviously, I'm a Pistons fan and I'm anything but objective, but I simply don't understand how anyone can fail to acknowledge Zeke's place in the history of the game.

As for where he fits in exactly, I don't know. I don't think it matters really, as long as he's part of the discussion. Personally, I'd take him before anyone, just for his fire, for the way he played the game; you can certainly argue that [insert name of fave PG here] was the better player -- and I might even agree with you -- but there's nobody I'd rather have running my team.

A note on Stockton: he was a great, great player. His numbers speak for themselves of course -- it might be decades before anyone breaks his all-time assists and steals records -- but more than that, he was such a tough, night-in-night-out, relentless player, and as good as anyone at running an offense.

I can still recall the 1999 Western semis, when the Jazz needed a basket late in the 4th Q to tie the game against the Blazers; Stock drove the lane, and was completely engulfed by all three members of the Blazers' frontcourt; somehow, Bryon Russell ended up with the ball for an easy layup a few feet away from the basket. On slowmotion replay, all I could see was John's hand, which had somehow materialized under the basket after the rest of him had disappeared from view, depositing the ball into Russell's expectant pair of hands.

Although he was rarely that flashy, that kind of prowess at running the O was Stock's bread and butter, especially in the halfcourt but also on the break. He was a pretty clutch shooter too, when it was required of him. I miss watching him play.

My top five would be:

1. Michael (Lets not get into this argument again. He was the Bulls point guard because he controlled the ball on offense over 70% of the time and he was a guard, not a point forward like Grant Hill)
2. Magic
3. Cousy (Anyone on this board except for me old enough to remember him?)
4. Oscar
5. Zeke

2.

Not even Michael would consider himself a point guard. Greatest player of all time, but definitely not a point guard.

THANK YOU very much BL.... Indeed mj was one of (if not thee) baddest cats of ALL TIME to ever grace the court, but he was never a point guard... It's just a fact. It's really not anything to even debate on this one folks.

Let me first start by saying that I am a huge Zeke fan.. Probably the biggest of all time.. not only is he one of the two ( Magic) greatest point guards of all time I honestly think he was one of the greatest players of all time… The # 1 goal of a point guard is to make your teammates better and no one did that better than Zeke.. we are truly fortunate in Detroit to have witnessed the careers of two of the greatest team leaders in the HISTORY of sports Zeke and Yzerman..
More on Zeke…. Chuck Daily said it best.. “if Isiah were 5 inches taller he would have been regarded as the best to ever play the game”
Isiah revolutionized the game as a small guard with his ability to score, handle the ball, and break down the defense… that’s just his physical abilities.. when you get into leadership and heart this is what separates Zeke from the rest of these guys that are mentioned in all of these so called top 5 lists
So here is mine
1A. Magic- This guy in his prime was a freak of nature 6’9, passing, ball handling, scoring, rebounding, leadership, and on top of all that he is a Spartan!
1B Zeke.. for all the reasons I mentioned above plus these ( back to back Championships, 3 strait trips to the finals (almost 4 if not for Bird Stealing the ball), and the only person who can say they defeated Magic, Bird, and, Jordan in their prime..
2. Jerry West- though I am not old enough to have seen him play personally I have seen classic footage, and the guy is the symbol of the NBA.. nuff said
3. Oscar Robertson- Averaged a Triple Double for an entire season.. I am not a huge stats person because they only tell half the story… but even if he was padding his stats that is amazing.. and not duplicated by anyone else
4. Stockton- Truly a great point guard… but could never close the deal and lead his team to any real victories…he and Malone took turns choking when they had their chances..
5. No one else is really even worth mentioning with these guys I mean there are some good ones left but I would only be adding them to have a fifth guy ( not needed) they all get honorable mention