It's proving my original point because he didn't even have it in him to put the squad he wanted out there when he got here (He knew himself that he didn't have their respect). The fact that he started Ben has nothing to do with what he actually wanted. He started Ben because he had to.

So Saunders leaving Ben in the lineup proves your point, but if he would have benched Wallace than it would have proven your other point, which is the exact opposite point of view? LOL.

If Tay is the one who does better with the Subs then why not send him to the bench? That way he could have 6-12 MPG as the main scorer.

I don't advocate benching either player but why punish Rip for Tays problems?

No way are we better without Rip ( Are you guys serious? ). He has been nothing but a hard working great player for us over the past 5 years. Keep that in mind as he works his way out of this slump.

I apologize because it is clear that I am not communicating my intentions clearly. I feel that this team would be better if we realized the potential contributions of players 1-13 better. With AA starting this allows us to get solid contribution from him. He's our best defender and he's always playing hard. In turn we make Rip instant offense off the bench. He would still get starter like mins, the same amount of touches, and still avg around 18/20ppg. I just really like how SA did it with Manu, Phx w/Barbosa and Dallas with Jet. It works. With 5 really good players playing together, 2 players always get squeezed. Honestly I'd like to see Maxiel eventually start over Dyess.

It takes 3 stars, not 5 to win a 'ship. It takes 3 and 2 solid role players. That means that our team has to take 2 stars and make them role players. Why not start 3 stars and 2 role players (AA & Maxey) and bring 2 stars off the bench. This is how we get start like contributions from all 5 stars on the team.

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This is all quite logical. But what are the Pistons talking about tonight? It ain't about the youth. Again, Flip Saunders has managed to deflect the discussion by bringing up the old effort thing. A subject that is made up. As I see you know, the real issue is preparing the team for the playoffs. Exhorting more effort out of the starters early in the season will do nothing for this. But that is what Flip Saunders is trying to put the focus on.

Lee - Kind of amusing in the 1st half of the Knicks game, watching it now. When Flip put Amir in there with all bench players and Murray at the point. Almost knowing that they would give up some ground so he could point to it as a reason not to play the young guys.

Of course they are going to give up the lead as the group he had out there had almost no experience playing together.

Mix the bench or the young guns with the starters. We need to bring this young fellas slowly. Look, we have 4 new/ youth players on the bench now, bear in mind that we are still without Hot Rod, that needs guidance on the floor.

Flip can always start the 'Starting 5' if he has no guts to bring any of them off the bench. No problem. But he needs to start subbing at least 2 of them after 6 minutes. Don start to sub cause one of them are in foul trouble. Maybe he needs to sub either Rip/ Tay or Sheed/ Dice after 6 minutes. Let CBill run the offense with AA/ Hayes or Amir/ Max with the 2 remaining starters till the end of the 1st quarter. Start the 2nd quarter with the rested Rip/ Tay or Sheed/ Dice with Flip Jr, AA/ Hayes and Amir/ Max/ Nazr while CBill sits. Bring the 'Starting 5' back to close the half with 5 or 6 minutes to go in the half.

Nazr and Samb should be a situational player. Required only when matchups are suitable.

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You're just not putting all together. I don't know how to explain it any better to you. If you look at it in the context of the situation it makes plenty of sense. You can't look at it like it's a "conditional" math problem.

"If Flip started Ben, then he must not prefer offensive players...."

That's just not how it works. There are more factors involved. Even though Flip would have rather had an offensive guy in Ben's spot (And that happened after only 1 year), he played him because he didn't have the respect to pull that kind of move off. That's why, in the original context (talking about bringing Rip off the bench with AA starting), it makes perfect sense. Even if he wanted to (which he wouldn't), I don't buy Flip being able to pull that off like Popovich/Avery Johnson with Manu/Terry.

the mix and match need is great.... who do we trust to get the young forwards offenses games going? murrey (who i hope is soon to be number 12 in the rotation soon) or cbill? maybe come playoff time all 5 young guns at once will be a force to be dealt with but as they learn to run with the big boys lets see two or three at a time and give the starters more time on the bench... last night was just sickening to watch, go from 5 starters to 5 bench players. nobody gets to get a feel for there game and mesh in. it takes very special players to come off the bench and make fast impacts into the game. Flip putting all 5 in last night was one of the first times i truely was disgusted with the way he's coaching, I try to see what he's doing but this one leaves me scratching my head.

Yeah, but then he surprised us by letting Afflalo play extensively in the 2nd half. And when Afflalo came off the floor in the 2nd half, it was to congratulations from Flip for a job well done.