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Under Carlisle, Ben averaged 7.6 and 6.9 points, respectively. Under Brown, his average increased to 9.5 and ...

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Old 05-20-2006, 06:24 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

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Under Carlisle, Ben averaged 7.6 and 6.9 points, respectively. Under Brown, his average increased to 9.5 and 9.7. I'd call that progress, wouldn't you?
No, not if you look at the FG% during that "progress". Unfortunately, it was too late for Ben to learn at least some offensive game.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:24 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

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Originally Posted by ggazoo69
Under Carlisle, Ben averaged 7.6 and 6.9 points, respectively. Under Brown, his average increased to 9.5 and 9.7. I'd call that progress, wouldn't you? In fact, Ben scored 18 in the clincher over the Lakers in 2004. LB understood that it was better to have somone have to guard Ben. Flip doesn't understand this at all. Under Flip, Ben's PPG has decreased to 7.3. You gotta throw these guys a bone once in a while. Where are the alley-oop slams? Sounds like the locker-room rumbles have some merit, especially where Ben is concerned.
Indeed Ben showed progress last year... some would say at the teams expense... other players could have scored at a better clip than Ben... then there's all of those mised FT's... similar to missed opportunities (minus getting Bigs in foul trouble)....
IMO this is Flip's biggest challage trying to get production from Ben without bringing the offense down.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:28 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

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Originally Posted by TWOTIMESRALPHI
pleeeeeeeeez, what progress? The only progress is that Ben now thinks he has somewhat like a ,right' to be involved in the O more and forgets how terrible he plays with the ball in his hands longer than 3 seconds.
Yes as ggazoo pointed out. You can scan his career stats and he has steadily increased his scoring average every year except for this one. Matter of fact when we 1st signed him he was supposed to work on his offense.

Ben was not always the best option last season and starting each game with a missed shot by Ben was not always the way to go. But Ben shot around .500 and was improving his Free Throws. His trouble at the line now has to be somewhat related to his lack of touches. Its much easier going to the line in the 4th quarter when you have already made a few shots and have 10 points in the bank.

Guys like Rodman and Mutumbo did not care about their offense, did not want to hear about it. At least Ben cares and wants to improve.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:32 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

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Originally Posted by TWOTIMESRALPHI
No, not if you look at the FG% during that "progress". Unfortunately, it was too late for Ben to learn at least some offensive game.
You're missing my point. The opposing team had to guard him because he was now considered an option. A wise move by Larry Brown. Now, nobody has to guard the guy. Thanks, Flip.

Response to Merc: I find it absolutely unfathomable that Ben can't learn to shoot better from the line. His form looks the same every season: Bad. He does not use his lower body to shoot at all. He's quicker than any 5 that guards him. He could draw fouls 'til the cows come home. Teach the guy how to shoot FTs. Problem is, when guys are drafted into the NBA, a lot are considered a finished product and instead of working on weak areas, they work on areas they're already good at. Ben has never been one of those guys. I think he would be open to having a free-throw coach.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:38 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

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ut Ben shot around .500 and was improving his Free Throws.
he shot 42 and 45 % adn shoots 34% in the playoffs this far.
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Now, nobody has to guard the guy. Thanks, Flip.
As we've seen, O can run without Ben. There are many teams out there who are playing 4 against 5 on O or would you call Bowen (for example) an offensive threat?.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:40 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

Ben Free throws. Its all Mental. I usually get to the games in time to see both shoot arounds and Ben is around 90% from the line.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:41 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

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Originally Posted by max
Ben Free throws. Its all Mental. I usually get to the games in time to see both shoot arounds and Ben is around 90% from the line.
OK, maybe he needs a shrink.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:41 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

Bowen is a deadly 3-ball shooter. There are teams that play 4-on-5, but I can't think of any team still alive that plays it as much as the Pistons do.

Ben is never going to improve his free throws because his problem is with his confidence, not his mechanics. Still, making him an offensive option, at least, is important.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:44 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

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Originally Posted by TWOTIMESRALPHI
he shot 42 and 45 % adn shoots 34% in the playoffs this far.

As we've seen, O can run without Ben. There are many teams out there who are playing 4 against 5 on O or would you call Bowen (for example) an offensive threat?.
It is kinda hard to argue with the points per game and points differential this year compared to the past two.... it still hurts the team in critical possessions down the stretch... Flips answer is setting more picks for the other four starters to create space (even when double teamed)...
T.O's play into this decision also.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:55 PM
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Re: Locker Room Rumbles?

I don't know. Seems like Ben was taking too many shots last year but Flip has really rolled it back quit a bit.

Bottom line if one of your players is disgruntled over it then it will not kill the team to give him maybe 2 more attempts per game to keep him happy. Then he will then play better in all aspects.
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