More shock than numb, but I guess I will really feel the numbness once we actually get eliminated, whether it is this week or in the next round.

We had some bad losses in the end of the season and some games where we took off so maybe we peaked back in February when the allstars did their thing.

The problem is the fans, the media and unfortunately the players themselves thought they were the best and the arrogance never went away.
The same thing occurred here in land back in 2004 after they won their back-3-back rings, and they were down 3-1 here. Not only did they think that would still come back and win, but after it was over, all you heard our here was:"we waz wrobbed!, they got all the calls, Shaq was tired, Kobe was selfish!!

Don't want to sign.
Maybe I am an outsider. Maybe my emotional envolvement is not the same.
But I have to say that I feel better about Pistons chances now, then I felt after second, not to mention after third game. In fact I was anxious and uneasy expecting their last I don't know how many games.
Now they have their backs against the wall (as they wanted?).
They HAVE to do something now.
I believe, Chauncey is the key.
It causes me almost physical pain watching him pumping the ball for 15 sec while 'the most dominant big man in the history of basketball' was resting his big fat bottom for his next dunk.
And during the second game 'dominant' was alredy sitting on the bench with the same expression on his face as in the 95 finals (Olajuwon).
The Heat are good as much as Pistons allow them to be.
And they know that better than many of you.
(Riley's talking about how they need to be humble = pure bluff)
They are ready to go down.
Just a click in ones head is needed.

And yes, I liked the bench yesterday.

Well numb says it.I would have expected this maybe a few years down the road going down without a legitimate fight.This team doesn't deserve this series even if they were to turn it around somehow.Now you have all these assmunkeys that are loving the fact we are in this position.

I'm not jumping off the bandwagon trust me but as upset as I feel right now I hope they blow us out Wed. in our house and the players have to gnaw on that all summer.Then come back and talk next year how you want to vindicate yourself or better yet,even though our defense is sucky sucky Wade has taken that bitter taste from last year and shown what it is to want on the court.I hate the little prick I really do but he is focused on sending us home and doing a fine job of it.

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Isn't this season pretty much what you are describing? I thought when they lost the title last year that they were on a mission to show everyone that they were the superior team. They worked so hard to get the best record in the league. I don't know. I think not having a bench to pick them up at all is what is missing mostly. Joe D has been very frugal in terms of free agent signings and perhaps there weren't any really decent ones out there. We wilkl never know what Joe D is truly thinking, but maybe 2004 was a case of all the stars aligning together for one moment. We had a deep, talented team then.

I wish I had Low's passion. But it's not there and I know why. It's because I don't like the way we play basketball anymore. I hate jumpshot/zone defense basketball, and I'm finding it hard to root for my beloved Pistons as a result.

Many of us feared this would be the final result - that our team would become mush - as soon as the word "Flip" was first spoken, and now we're one loss away from realizing this predictable destiny. I've found passion very hard to come by this season, and I'm convinced it's due to the style they play, coupled with the monotony of their game plan. I mean, I love these guys and I remain a devoted fan. But that's just what it is: devotion. But it's not fun anymore. Not this team. Not this year. Even when we were winning games it felt empty because the style was false and the answers were shortterm. And now we're getting what we deserve.

But this is not Flip's fault. I maintain that his basketball philosophy is highly flawed, but it's that philosophy that Dumars chose to add to this team. Flip Saunders is doing the best Flip Saunders knows how to do. He's not a young coach (not exactly) and we can't expect him to change his core beliefs, especially at this juncture. We're getting exactly what we paid for and Flip shouldn't be blamed for that. I blame Joe D, and I suspect that Joe also blames himself. I also expect he will fix the situation eventually.

My emotionless conclusion about this team is that the collective makeup of the players doesn't fit the coach, and if we're to roll with Philip for a few more years then we'd better get some better gunners and one-on-one playmakers who better fit into his offense.

And Ben Wallace should consider going to Chicago. That team plays with the tenacity that Body loves, and Skiles might be perfect for him. I don't want Ben to leave, but he'd fit better there, especially if Saunders stays.

In a way it might be freeing to let the 'Fro go. We could spend money on the bench, start rebuilding before it's too late, develop real depth - something we haven't had since '04. Who needs the same starting five every night? Wouldn't it be better to develop different lineups for different scenarios?

Anyhow, if you can't tell, I've retired the 64 win Pistons. It's time to look to the future. How can we salvage this team and turn it back into a real contender before the window completely closes? I'd say dumping Flip is Step #1, but in the New NBA where offense is everything, I'm not so sure what to do. Let's wait to see which team wins the title this year. That should tell us a lot about the state of the NBA.

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Napkin Sketches:
unlocking life's mysteries one day at a time

This has been an incredible collapse--no way to get around it. It is almost on the scale of the Lakers. It has been tough. I mean we were sailing this year on top of two finals appearances. I gave Miami a shot at it but they are cruising past us. This team could not handle being the front runner. They expect things to happen instead of making them happen. The Sheed injury may be one problem. Flip's inability to make moves another.

But we have weaknesses that are coming out. Our offense broke down the last two years and here we are again. So, we need a major overhaul of our offensive philosophy. We need a quick, young guard who can play major minutes and penetrate as a backup to Chauncey. We need a bench who can play big minutes.

On defense, it is obvious we need a younger Lindsay Hunter on the perimeter. Our bigs are showing some age and we need a young Barrejo-type to run and bang. Every key team now except SA has someone who is younger and quicker than us. And watch SA go and add some speed to their team.

These excerpts from Griffin's post express my feelings as closely as anything I've read on this forum regarding the Pistons' state of affairs. I just disagree about how to go forward.

I fell in love with the Pistons and the game of basketball during the 2004 playoffs that led to our title win over the Lakers. I fell in love with the Pistons' starting five, their chemistry and demeanor, and I fell really really hard drop dead head over heels in love watching them play DEFENSE. Their conquest of my heart was immediate and felt final.

My fear is that if we keep Flip, which I think we will because Joe made all that noise when he hired him about wanting a coach that would stick around for a gazillion years, that we are going to get just more of the same. The idea of trading away any of the starting five to better fit Flip's unproved playoff non-system is absurd.

I'll take game 7 loss against the Spurs last season any day over this style of play on the Detroit Pistons. It's unseemly on our guys and beneath them, and even if we win this whole thing by some miracle, I still won't have enjoyed watching them, which is what it's all about for me.

If Flip stays, I too hope Ben goes somewhere else. How can Ben stay on a perimeter jumpshooting/zone defense team? I'd rather follow his career somewhere else than see him being a wallflower to the new improved "any jumpshot is a good jumpshot" offense.

The numbness comes from facing this question: How long can I stay a fan of a perimeter jumpshooting/zone defense team? Even though the Pistons will always be my first love, when your first love turns into someone you don't recognize who doesn't do the things you fell in love with anymore, well, I ask you, how long can you stay faithful?

My vote for my own selfish enjoyment would be to bring in a coach who will coach to the team's defensive game, maybe an ex-Piston, even though it is not the direction the NBA is moving in. Seeing the kind of basketball I love is more important that winning the titles to me.

I thought nothing could hurt more than losing to the Spurs in a Game 7 last year. But I was wrong, the invisibility of the team I love, when each of the players is still out there on the court, is way more painful and confusing.

For the last few weeks I have turned on the tv wanting to see Big Ben, Mr. Big Shot, Rip, Sheed and Tay - to see my Detroit Pistons defend and protect with swagger, creating offense out of defense. Instead I see five guys trying to keep their heads above water in a system that on them looks like someone just gave them a learner's permit to play in the NBA.

Whether a "defense first" team can still play and win titles in the new NBA is a "whole nother question." But even if the phrase "Defense Wins Championships" is dead, I would not mind going down with the Pistons Fanship just to see our boys Do That Thing I Like...

DEEETROIT BAAASKETBAAALL.

Thank You.

I can relate to numb. I can relate to sick to my stomach. I can relate to many, many words and feelings. I almost feel betrayed by putting SO much of myself and my family through this ordeal in staying true to my team.

But that's what true fans do and I suppose we have been spoiled by the 2004 championship and the 64-18 record this team had given us. I became so enthralled by this team, I went out of my way to go to as many games I as could during the regular season.

I made I conscious choice NOT to go to any playoff games for a variety of reasons, but mainly because I get too personally involved with this team and seeing how they have imploded during these playoffs......I simply didn't feel like being a "witness" to it at the Palace. <nerves can't handle it >

I'm trying hard to stick with them to the very end, not giving up at any cost, but trying to stay realistically motivated. If you were to ask me during last years playoffs if this team could win it all being down 3-1, I would have emphatically responded "YES." They just don't appear to be the same team, be it the coach, the players, the lack of team cohesiveness, whatever. This is NOT the boys we knew a month ago.

Why is everyone blaming Flip for having a perimeter-based offensive style? Last year we were better in the post, but only because LB gave a lot of attention to Ben. We have no players that are good in the post (Sheed don't count). Is it Flip's fault we have no post presence? Come on. Give him a good big man, he'd make him work.

I don't believe it's Flip's fault we are dead last in PITP, could he improve it? Sure, the same way LB did a somewhat decent job at that, but it wouldn't make us top 10, or even top 15 in PITP. Keeping Flip around isn't going to doom us to a jumpshooting/zone d identity.