So break up the team just cause we are in our customary position, where we are strongest; at least traditionally. That is; with our backs against the wall. I'm thinking we still got a flicker of life; even though we definitely have issues. I'm voting we keep the starting six plus Hunter, maybe Davis, and last year's rooks. Get the broom for everybody else.

One of the weapons other teams have that we don't have is an "impact" player at the 2 or 3 spot off the bench. The Summer leagues will tell us whether Delfino is liable to breakout next year. If J-Max and Amir can handle the backup 3 spot, we should be allright there. We don't have a 1st choice in a weak draft so no loss there. We should be able to pickup a FA or maybe two.

I'm not for trading Sheed for anybody not named Garnett. I'm disappointed in Sheed's overall play the last half of the season, but there remains nobody who can matchup against him when he's focused. Be interesting to see who those who advocate tradin Sheed suggest as a replacement.

All is NOT lost and our future remains bright. At least on the player-front. The wasted Darko pick hurts; but the 08 Draft is supposed to be deeper.

The issue is coaching. Flip just rolled the ball out this year and said "play!" If he don't hire a good defensive coach and get outta the way and let that coach do his thing, he'll be in trouble. Laimb...you ready?

Hatter - thanks I needed that.

I defintely would like to have Laimbeer in as head coach, wanted him back before Carlisle came aboard.

As for breaking up the starters, I still say we need to move at least one person. We are losing continuity among the starters, the majority of the players have their own personal agenda which I thought would never happen to the Pistons squad.

Come on Hatter you and I are usually on the same page bro, give a sister a little love on this one, you are from my old neighborhood, like Abe Vigoda said in Godfather I "For old times sake", I guess you'll have to say; "can't do it Sal".

I slept on this last night. Tried to reconstruct the last several seasons bit by bit from memory.

Sheed has to go.

I love his feistiness, his swagger, his foolishness and his passion. I love his game. I think he is a decent person off the court, active without promotion in the community, etc.

For his pricetag, he's a valuable asset.

BUT

Going into a 4th season with the same starting unit is a tricky situation. There is a fine line between consistent and stagnant. Some of Sheed's emotional volatility has impregnated the other starters, guys like Rip, Ben and Tay arguing calls. It's to the point where we have 1 big Sheed and 3 little Sheeds. Either way, the refs aren't going to carry the whiners.

Sheed's still a game changer, when he wants to be. Unfortunately, that's not often enough. This team needs more energy from the starting PF position, on a regular basis. A guy who puts up 16 points 3 out of 4 nights. A guy who pulls down 8 boards, 3 out of 4 nights.

If handled right, a trade could pay off well. I don't want to see it done, but it might have to be done. The biggest reason could be to get JMax on the court.

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Nov 13 LW Milan Lucic had an active night. He scored his first goal in eight games since his Oct. 25 hat trick and also pounded Michael Komisarek in a third-period fight. Lucic cut his hand in a fight with Michael Komisarek. "I'll be fine," he said. "(X-rays are) negative, but there's so many broken bones in there from before you can't really tell."

Sheed has all the tools but is wildly inconsistent. Out of the starting five we already have one natural non-scorer in Ben. It is imperative that the other 4 pick up the slack. The Pistons offense goes into extended slumps. This has been historical problem which Joe needs to address. At the very least I think 2 positions need to be addressed in the off-season, win or lose. Pistons need to add a PF with a scoring touch and a consistent low post game. Ben gets no consistent help down there. Secondly, CB needs a back up like Claxton who can score and penetrate. Can't go into another playoffs with the PG position lacking quality depth. Joe needs to spend the money.

Here's the thing with Sheed though......who do you get as his relacement??? Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, J Oneal, Gasol, Randolph, Brand.....Those are 7 guys who'd I'd entertain, 5 I'd pull the trigger instantly, but they are not going anywhere, anytime soon. I just don't see anybody out there that can replace Sheed who we could feasibly land here. An enigma if there ever was one. Do you ship Sheed, start Dyess and get some expiring deals or Shore up the guard and forward spots??? Be nice for some examples of what to do.......trade him to Denver for K-Mart??? I don't think so.

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Play hard, Play smart, Play together, share the ball, have fun....Play the right way!!!!!!

I agree on Potentially moving Sheed. I am not a big Sheed fan right now namely because this team always used to get along before he got here. Now with a more lax coach I can see this team going Portland on us. I am getting tired of all the 6 point nights and multiple 3-point attempts.

Ideally I would like to see Sheed traded for a center so Ben can go back to his natural position at PF. Bens numbers have been down ever since he switched over in Feb 04 when we 1st got Sheed. Bens getting too old to guard Centers every night.

Sheed for Okur? Is that possible? Kind of depends on what happends in the post-season. If the Pistons lose and the Locker room in rumored to be a reason then eveyones trade value is down.

I gotta be the idiot here and say that I'd rather keep Sheed than Ben.

* Partly that's because life before Sheed had a very limited ceiling. Any big guy from Kenyon Martin on up could shoot over Ben in the post, and we didn't have anybody who could nail a contested shot in close to the basket. Come playoff time, both of those weaknesses were fatal.

* Partly it's because Ben could fetch a nice price in a sign and trade, from teams like Chicago who have spare picks and need a defensive presence inside.

* Partly it's the likely high price we'd have to pay a guy who isn't what he used to be and can't be trusted to shoot 40% from the FT line.

* And partly it's because we've come to that superstar tipping point Joe D. talks about -- the point where a team relies too much on the play and mood of one guy, and becomes vulnerable. The Pistons rely on Ben too much to cover for lapses in defense and intensity, and as long as he's around that will continue.

Now the league is changing to a a smaller, quicker game that favors guards, and our defensive strength has to be redistributed. We need to get quicker on the ball, instead of hoping Ben will erase mistakes. Trying to stay the same will be a mistake.

I'd think about trading Chauncey, but he's a bargain and it would be hard to get fair value. We'd better start thinking that one over soon, though, because teams are going to throw all kinds of money at him and I think he'll like that attention. A lot.

I absolutely, totally agree with everything you said 100%.

I do love Sheed and think, when on his game, he makes his teammates better, communicates and helps extremely well on D, has an almost unstoppable inside/outside game for a big man, and brings energy and fun to the team. Unfortunately, like you said, he also too often disappears in critical times, puts his foot in his mouth, and fairly or not, has a reputation with the refs that ultimately hurts the team. He also isn't getting any younger.

I think with Sheed, its very similar to LB. Its a case of diminishing returns. His act is starting to wear thin (and rub off on his teammates as you mentioned).

Something has to change. This team needs a shake up. And just as with LB, I'm very thankful for everything he's brought to this team, but I think that his time has come.

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I agree with pretty much everything LanierFan wrote.

I have to say that the first player I'd want to get rid of is Chauncey Billups, who I blame most of the attitude issues with the team on.