I hope Ben does what will make him happiest and best-paid.

I agree, Ben needs to take care of Ben and Joe needs to take care of the Pistons. Those paths may or may not converge.

So you are saying Chicago...

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Nov 13 LW Milan Lucic had an active night. He scored his first goal in eight games since his Oct. 25 hat trick and also pounded Michael Komisarek in a third-period fight. Lucic cut his hand in a fight with Michael Komisarek. "I'll be fine," he said. "(X-rays are) negative, but there's so many broken bones in there from before you can't really tell."

It amazes me how many people in this forum no very little about basketball. You watch this team and believe red jerseys make a difference. U watch this game and think these guys are just wind up dolls for our amusement. If u never played team sports ON ANY LEVEl, then all your doing is watching a show. When I go see XMen 3, and I want to see my favorite character "BEAST" be brought to life on the big screen, I dont think about whats goin thru Kelsey Grammars head, i want to see THe Beast! There was a lot of things Flip did this year that got into Ben's head. I spent 8 years in the Army, and I tried to be whatever the Army wanted me to be. But what I couldnt stand was having to work with lazy, selfish, aloof, whiney, talk-undre-your -breath, selfcentered, disrespectful idiots who got away with stuff while underminding leadership. Meanwhile, Im standing tall, looking good, uniform pressed, physically fit and doing the best I could "in spite of my weaknesses."

What the Orlando game showed Ben was that the leader we have here alienated the future of our franchise and Ben saw it everytime he looked at his young protege, Darko. He saw a coach who could not get teh best out of Darko "like he promised ". He saw a coach who took him out the game 'for more offense' and then he put him back in 'like a defensive shogun!'

Ben made his point to me when he didnt go FRO!. I saw "THE Grant hill" look of exodus in his eyes. Not because he quit on us, but its hard to play for a coach who ddint appreciate you. Say whay u want about LB, but the players got into playing for him. If LB just altered his massive ego" a lil ol bit" we'd be in the Finals 5 days ago.

As far as Ben staying, I hope he leaves. Every 20 years , this country has gotten in some war somewhere. Every 4/5 years , an NBA dynasty is ended,see San Antonio. Ben has earned the right to choose. When Hill decided Detroit was not for him, and left this teal-azz organization for dead, it was Ben that said "Im gonna do whatever I can to get us a win".

I'll never forget the ABC game vs Boston, when he got 22 rebounds..
the block on Shaq's fadeaway in 2004 finals....the sledgehammer in the intros...the gong .....the bouncing off Lindsay during the lineups...the fro...the beauty of a man who at only 6'8' 225 lbs battled the biggest this leaque has to offer...and Won more than he lost....

The people who dont appreciate Ben are the same people:
...who only go to Tigers games during a pennant race
...never saw a game at the Olympia
....never gave a homeless person a few dollars
...dont remeber us wearing freekin teal!!
....would trade BEn over a malcontent like Sheed
...didnt appreciate what AD meant to the Bad Boys
...didnt shed a tear during 9-11 and thereafter
....dont appreciate love of all mankind!

Ben may stay or leave......but for any of us to dog him out is totally shameful..........I love u, Big Guy! BONG
BONG
GONG
...gone...............

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= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN38uI2oKkA

If Ben leaves, I hope we don't settle for another undersized center to replace him, like JMaxx. JMx will not be able to fill the bill because he would be competing with full-sized players during prime time, not the 'end-of-the-bench-players' that he has faced so far.

We need a good NBA center to replace Ben, even if he stays. Ben should come off the bench behind someone who can command respect, if not now, at least in the very near future.

We don't have anyone like that anymore; will have to go out and get one.

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Things appear to be at their darkest . . . . . . . . . just before they go totally black!!

HQ, what you are talking about happens in our jobs every day. You are stuck with teams of people who may or may not perform to expectations. What's so new about that? You voice your complaint through the chain of command, not in public. Don't know how you justify that, even if the intentions were good. Take it to Joe if Flip doesn't get the message. If that doesn't work, leave.

Thats exactly what i am saying. We will never know how many times Ben went to flip and said "hay, this aint us" or " we need to play the bench'...we just dont know. I majored in social science in college and i one of my specialties was appearnces thru emotions. The look on Bens face and his reaction to certain things was that of a man who saw problems, mentioned them more tahn twice, and I heard flip's responses too. .."We'll be fine..we'll work it out'. Flip's personality and mannerisms was taht of a nervous coach. he never looked comfortable this year. ..
what happened when:
- Sheed showed up late for the Suns game/
- Dice was supposed to start the suspended game
- Ben didnt go in vs Orlando
The coach lost his team, and I have lost my mind.

Summer of Sam, Pt 2..starring me

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= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN38uI2oKkA

Brother HQ, Ben has been a great and inspirational player, and has been the heart and soul of this team. My favorite Piston. And the incident in the Orlando game does not change my opinion one iota. My concern is that his play in this year's playoffs did not match the brilliance he showed in the 2004 and 2005 playoff runs. The block and knockdown of Shaq was tremendous. I'd love to get a blowup of that block to hang on my wall. But his overall play seemed inconsistent, and while one can live with 40% free throw shooting, 20% can really hurt a team. Would you agree that Ben's playoff performance was off some this year (like that of every other Piston starter except Tay), and, if so, is age catching up with him or was was his attitude or intensity off? And if his attitude was off somewhat, was it because of dissatisfaction with his reduced offensive role, or anger at Flip, or something else?

THATS all i am saying...he was betrayed by the dark side of the force.