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Originally Posted by TaShawn That rebound per minute argument made by Saunders was hilarious. You picked the wrong stat buddy. ...

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Old 03-02-2008, 01:02 PM
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

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Originally Posted by TaShawn View Post
That rebound per minute argument made by Saunders was hilarious. You picked the wrong stat buddy.

Amir Johnson- 15.5 rebounds per 40 mintues

Tony McDyess- 14.4 rebounds per 40 minutes.


The fouls per minute argument holds some water. Except, Dyess chooses to not foul and gives up point blank shots when he's beat. I don't really want Amir to do that. When you come in off the bench, no layups.

The problem there is sort of threefold.

1.) Amir doesn't play close enough to 40 minutes for that stat to mean anything, while McDyess does.

2.) McDyess is getting his numbers against starting centers and power forwards, while plenty of Amirs boards have been wrangled against the opposing squads dregs during the waning moments of an already decided game.

3.) Flip actually sees these two go head to head in practice. For all we know McDyess is the more successful of the two when it comes to their head to head matchups in practice.
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:12 PM
Lee356 Lee356 is offline
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

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Originally Posted by CloudWalker View Post
The problem there is sort of threefold.

1.) Amir doesn't play close enough to 40 minutes for that stat to mean anything, while McDyess does.

2.) McDyess is getting his numbers against starting centers and power forwards, while plenty of Amirs boards have been wrangled against the opposing squads dregs during the waning moments of an already decided game.

3.) Flip actually sees these two go head to head in practice. For all we know McDyess is the more successful of the two when it comes to their head to head matchups in practice.
In watching the games, I can tell you that:

1) Amir skies about 40% higher for rebounds vs. Dyess, stats be darned.

2) Amir gets his boards just as readily against the other teams starters when they come back in for the last half of the 2nd quarter while Amir is still out there.

3) In actual NBA games, we see that the guys Dyess can't guard (a very numerous group) are easily guarded by Amir. Take last nights game. His teammates all around him were scoring like fiends, and yet Dyess was minus for the game. This is because he was a doormat on defense for the other team. In contrast, Amir so totally shut down the same players Dyess could not guard that it resulted in the Clips barely being able to score at all while Amir was in the game. Thus the plus 25 for Amir. (In contrast to the minus 1 for Dyess.)
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:26 PM
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

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In watching the games, I can tell you that:

1) Amir skies about 40% higher for rebounds vs. Dyess, stats be darned. This would be relevant if guys like Gerald Green were among the leaders in rebounds.

2) Amir gets his boards just as readily against the other teams starters when they come back in for the last half of the 2nd quarter while Amir is still out there. This doesn't negate the fact that Amir only gets slightly more than 1/3 the time of McDyess, and of these meager minutes, less than half of this time is against the higher caliber players that McDyess faces.

3) In actual NBA games, we see that the guys Dyess can't guard (a very numerous group) are easily guarded by Amir. Take last nights game. His teammates all around him were scoring like fiends, and yet Dyess was minus for the game. This is because he was a doormat on defense for the other team. In contrast, Amir so totally shut down the same players Dyess could not guard that it resulted in the Clips barely being able to score at all while Amir was in the game. Thus the plus 25 for Amir. (In contrast to the minus 1 for Dyess.) Not relevant to rebounding, don't see how it serves to rebut my contention that McDyess may currently be a better rebounder than Amir.

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Old 03-02-2008, 03:18 PM
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

Just one other thought on Amir's defense. The guy is putting up incredible defensive numbers and he shares a ton of minutes with Jarvis Hayes, Maxiell, and Stuckey (our 3 worst defensive players statistically). That makes me think that if he was playing with the starters more, it would be even more obvious.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:39 PM
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

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It is relevant to rebounding. Amir is by far the better defender, while also getting more rebounds per minute than Dyess. What if Amir slacked off on his defense some, maybe all the way down to Dyess's level, and just concentrated on rebounds?
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:08 AM
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

As far as rebounding goes, I think it is just about a draw between McDyess and Amir. Dyess gets 14 rebounds per 48 minutes while Amir grabs 15.

The main difference is that Amir gets 40% of his boards on the offensive end while McDyess only gets 29% of his rebounds on the offensive glass.
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:52 AM
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

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Originally Posted by Dumars4Ever View Post
To be fair, Flip did say "over the last month" with respect to McDyess being one of the league leaders in rebounds per minute. What do the stats look like for that period?
I didn't catch the over the last month bit. To Flip's credit, it looks like he is right.

In February, Dyess is #3 in the NBA with 16.9 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Amir Johnson is about #30 with 13.7.

Webber got 12.6
Maxiell got 12.4

And here is the sad part. Sheed checked in at a tie for 123rd with Bresec with 10.4.

We can all agree that Sheed should be a better rebounder than big bird if he was really trying, right?


Anyways, touche Flip. You are more on top of the numbers that I would have given you credit for.
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:53 PM
Chandragupta Chandragupta is offline
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

You have to consider how different players rebound when they have other strong rebounders on the floor. It is rare that you ever get two guys on the floor with 10+ rebounds... this is a team game and good rebounders will level each other out in the stat department.


I think McDyess has taken it upon himself to rebound like crazy this year, allowing Sheed to have some slack in the area. Without having to bang all the time, Sheed can focus on better offense and post defense. I like it.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:01 PM
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

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Originally Posted by Chandragupta View Post
You have to consider how different players rebound when they have other strong rebounders on the floor. It is rare that you ever get two guys on the floor with 10+ rebounds... this is a team game and good rebounders will level each other out in the stat department.


I think McDyess has taken it upon himself to rebound like crazy this year, allowing Sheed to have some slack in the area. Without having to bang all the time, Sheed can focus on better offense and post defense. I like it.

It's a good point. If you look at the top 25 NBA rebounders, for example, you will only see 3 pairs of teammates:

Phoenix (pre-trade): Marion (9.8), Stoudemire (9.3)
New Orleans: Chandler (12.1), West (9.1)
Cleveland (post-trade): Ilgauskas (9.6), Ben Wallace (8.8)
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Old 03-03-2008, 07:00 PM
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Re: Amir Johnson - Detroit Piston Tracker

Just checked out the old +/- stats.

Chauncey is #2 in the league behind Paul Pierce.

However, Amir Johnson really stands out if you look at the last 10 games. In that span, he is #11 in the NBA in gross +/- at +93. On a per minute basis, he is easily #1 with +.520 per minute. (He could very well lead the league in +/- per minute for the year, but for some reason, I can't get that figure.)

Anytime you lead the 450 players in the league in a positive stat, it is something to put on your resume.

You're probably wondering about blocks/48 minutes, right?
Well, Amir is 1 block away from taking the #1 spot in the NBA.

Right now, Camby gets 5.34 per 48 and Amir gets 5.33 per 48 min.


Rebounds per 40?
He is 0.5 away from having the top spot. Okafor gets 15.9, and Amir gets 15.4.


Remember when Joe deemed him untouchable? That was a good decision.
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Last edited by TaShawn : 03-03-2008 at 07:06 PM.
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