I don't think we're that far from winning. If Joe drafts well and makes some smart deals we should be right back in the thick of championship contention next year. Just because we folded like a house of cards this year doesn't mean that we can't compete next year.

If Flip gets out coached by Mike Brown he would get manhandled by anybody. In fact I think that a case can be made where every WC playoff team's coach is better than Flip.

Avery Johnson
Greg Popovich
Mike D'Antoni
Jeff VanGundy
Jerry Sloan
Phil Jackson
George Karl
Don Nelson

It's more of an organizational thing than physical talent. San Antonio has it right now and we don't. The coaching fits the talent perfectly.

Flip is not maximizing his team's ability. I am actaully hopeful that he will progress as a coach this year.

Mikhail, I hope you are right, and this is like 2003, when the guys lost 4 in a row to a team that went on to be sacrificed in LA. And then we came back to win it all.... Major changes were needed then to get over the top and I think they are needed again. Himat's list would probably be a good place to start.

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Pecan Log Rolls for everyone!

Just watching the Spurs win a 4th title makes me . No offense to them as a team, I like them, but the Pistons should have won more than one during this 5 year stretch. Underachieved to their potential

The difference in the styles between the Pistons and the Spurs emanate from their respective coaches and point guards.

Chauncey is a slow it down, cool and quiet, 3 point shooter, who will occasionally try to use his physical strength going to the lane (usually trying to draw a foul). He has won games with his 3 point shooting and foul shooting, but lacks the dynamic personality to inspire the team in other ways.

Tony Parker is a dynamic, fast, high energy guy who can distribute and drive to the rim with the best of them.

I really don't know if Saunders has tailored his offense to the players we have or if he tries to fit players into his offense which don't necessarily fit.

You gotta love Joe D's intensity in talking about next season. I am really excited to see the youngsters get some PT. I do think Joe will pretty much have to mandate the changes as Flip does not seem inclined to play bench players consistent minutes.

The negativity in this thread is understandable, but I actually am more excited about next season's team than the past couple of years of sameness. I like the Pistons as they are, but I really think the energy and athleticism that is lacking will be much improved with Max, Amir, and other young guys coming in.

I've never heard Joe so pissed off, so I hope his stating that Amir will be a rotation player next season comes to pass. I think Acker in Europe has a chance to contribute here too next season.

Me too.

And the negativity has it's place, folks may as well get it out of their system now. We've got an exciting summer of change coming with the team, and

The Pistons have the same grind it out (if their lucky) offense that they had during their heyday, without the D to back it up. I have no doubt that when Cleveland had 34 points at the half in these finals games, that DET would have been right there with 29 or 30 points. There is more than one way to play. DET doesn't have to play exactly like SA. Their offense is an abomination though with no ball movement and is totally reliant on 5 or so players to carry it out.

SA was down 13 to Pheonix in G5 and had a line-up of Matt Bonner, Oberto, Jauque Vaughn, Brent Barry on the floor. They somehow are able to keep their defensive principles in place, move the ball and be productive on O. They cut deeply into the lead with this group. Anyone ever see that happening with Flip here?

Well, you are correct about the current defense versus the "old days". The Pistons of several years ago relied mostly on tough physical D to keep them in games when their offense was bogged down. Losing big Ben definitely hurt the defense, as he did tend to "clean up" a lot of free passes to other teams guards to drive the lane. Sheed really did step up and play excellent help defense to try to make up for the loss of the other Wallace, but whether it can be blamed on the "new rules" or not, the old Pistons D just was not there when they needed it against Cleveland. When their offense was not clicking (Prince 1-19!!!), they counted on their defense to keep them close but it wasn't enough obviously.

I don't really think it is about physicality or athleticism, I think it is about intensity and tenacity. The so-called leader of the team, Chauncey, has some great aspects to his game, but he is just not the inspirational, tenacious leader that Ben was. Ben's intensity usually had a very visceral effect on the rest of the team, and often inspired them to, as Joe says "bring it". The only player I see that has a similar style is Max, who seems to overcome his "shortcomings" with tremendous intensity and will.

Maybe I'm wrong about Chauncey and he can become more of a leader type, but he isn't a youngster anymore and if he had it in him I think it would have shown by now.

Hopefully, the youth and athleticism of our young prospects will light a fire under our older players and next years team will find the hunger they have lost.

Chauncey is a very good player, but just not a leader. Sheed leeds but he has a weird way to show it. Tay is too quiet. Rip is...well...Rip. When LB was here - he was the leader along with Ben. Now we have a leadership void. I do not believe that one of the youngsters could become a leader yet. They have to earn teammates' respect. I was really hoping that Tay could step up, especially during that Bulls series when he became vocal. Then it seemed like he resorted to being laid back and quiet. Flip had to become that leader. So far he hasn't shown anything that would indicate he's up to the task. Therefore, Joe steps in. I'm just hoping it will work, especially since it looks like all the players respect Joe.

Thanks Pistons. I'll be back next year.