Dude, C'mon......Clev found out that if you get Cwebb in a P&R it's a like taking candy from a baby. Webb can't hedge/recover or switch the Pick and Roll. Shaq may be the only worse P&R defender in the entire league.

P&R - Do you mean Pastrami on Rye? I thought the expression was "the mustard came off the hot dog" not the peppered beef!!

Oh my bad. That expression refers to offense and not defense.

Yeah, but he stepped in for Nazr. All I said was that it improved.

If ____ gets _____ in a pick and roll it's like taking candy from a baby.


With the way the game is played and officiated today....
You can practically put any team in the first spot and ALMOST every center's name can be put in the second spot and it would still be a true statement.

I didn't say that. Chauncey Billups did.

Perhaps he doesn't know what he's talking about.

If he does know what he's talking about - which I hope because he's making far too much money now to be incompetent - then we are effectively faulting Webber for not being one of the top P&R defending centers in the league.

I won't do that.

And I won't rate him above or below other guys that can't do it.
Either you can or you can't. Few big men really can. The rest I personally consider part of a whole.

Fact still remains: Webber has some of the best hands in the league for a big man, on offense and defense.

Their are so many things Cleveland does wrong, but the Pistons never found those things out. Maybe this is because Cleveland was using their players to the best of their ability unlike the Pistons who stopped making Webber an assist man.

I bold struck this because I believe this was huge.

While KGreg and I may differ on the finer points of Flex offense, I feel he does have a point about players being "tabbed" to take shots on trips down the floor. I however, don't blame this on Saunders, but on Billups and the players on the floor who displayed a disconcerting lack of patience on offense.... almost as if they were trying to pad the stats of the guy passing the ball to them.

They even missed open players coming off screens (who should have been about to receive the ball) to force the ball back into Chauncey's hands for a "reset"

This completely undermines the nature of Flips offensive schemes, and it came on the wake of Chauncey's complaints that Webber was stealing assists from him.


I feel that players - either consciously or subconsciously - were trying to force shots after receiving passes from Billups.

It disrupted the offensive flow, and the team wasn't ever the same after that. Even if they at any point tried to get back to where they were, it was obviously all for naught. This team had long since fallen out of a good groove and had become firmly mired in a bad one.

Between Ben and his points, and Chauncey with his assists, I seriously hope next year is free of supposedly unselfish to a T Pistons players complaining about their "stats".

No sheet? Not that I'm doubting you, but I hadn't heard this one. You got a link for this?

I call this a coaching issue. If the players ain't listening to the coach, that's also a coaching issue.

It was in a Detroit News article sometime back Mad.

Billups was whining that he was out of sorts because the ball wasn't in his hands all the time.

If he could take someone off the dribble, I wouldn't have a problem with his lust for the ball, but we live and die with his passing, the same one dimensional problem that shut us down in the ECF the last two years.

__________________
Nov 13 LW Milan Lucic had an active night. He scored his first goal in eight games since his Oct. 25 hat trick and also pounded Michael Komisarek in a third-period fight. Lucic cut his hand in a fight with Michael Komisarek. "I'll be fine," he said. "(X-rays are) negative, but there's so many broken bones in there from before you can't really tell."

Thanks Roscoe. I must of missed that.

Well Billiups has his contract so he should be able to focus on his "legacy" now. If he "plays the right way," maybe he can leave one. He outta recognize the advantage of playin with C-Webb offensively. If anything C-Bill should be complainin about C-Webb's defense.

Having said that; C-Bill needs to get his house in order as well, particularly post-payday. Seems the Cavs sort of "punk" him every time we play. Prince too.

Well, I attempted to link you all to the original article...however, the Detroit News has decided to be a bunch of jerks and requires that to read the articles that old they must be paid for.

So instead I will link you to this:

Do Chauncey Billups and Chris Webber cancel each other out? at Detroit Bad Boys

The write up contains a link to the original article, therefore, if anyone does want to throw their hard earned cash at the DetNews folks, they are free to do so.