The Amir Johnson - Play Him or Trade Him Thread

[buddahfan]

Originally Posted by FreshPrince22

Maybe it's just the pessimism talking but I read that as "He even makes decent look bad". And I don't know what Flip means when he talks about Amir "understanding what we're trying to do at times". What, is he deviating from the gameplan?

It all just seems like Flip's trying to throw out some fluff excuses as to why Amir doesn't play.

You could be correct, but we know that Flipper's offense is a bit complicated and involves a lot more team play than AJ was used to at Westchester High and in the D. league. Prior to this year AJ had still only played 60 games above the high school level.

Also our defense is pretty sophisticated with help outs, rotations etc.

So what Flipper might be alluding to is that AJ still needs to execute better against the play book, because the Pistons aren't a free lancing type team neither on offense or defense which is the only type of hoops that AJ has played in his life before this year. The 11 games with us over the last two years really don't count because they were either meaningless games at the end of the year or just a little bit of garbage time.

Maybe that is what Flipper has held against AJ and still does; i.e., AJ still ain't playing by the book, which clearly our starters do, probably to a fault as was seen in last year's playoff series against the Cavs.

[TaShawn]

I'm not Lee, but if I were, i would post the following:

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter

While you're at it, wanna comment on what the Memphis papers are saying about him after D-Ho flat out abused him?
Orlando Magic leave home floor defenseless, wasting monster night from Dwight Howard -- OrlandoSentinel.com
Looks like they didn't really say anything about it, except that Gasol was injured. Apparently, DM played limited minutes due to foul trouble. He did have 3 blocks, but they were all on Mo Evans. So, no wonder Howard was going off.

There was nobody in Orlando that we were interested in when we made this trade; other than Cato for salary cap purposes.

So if you are saying we gave Darko away for nothing; what did Orlando get for him? What other 2nd pick has ever suffered such a fate? Looks like Memphis may be on the verge of kicking him to the curb as well.
Provide a link for that please. I hadn't heard that. That's big news. They must feel really stupid for signing him and wasting the $21M.

As for Carlos (best assist/minute; best assist/turnover in the league) Arroyo....is he still in the league?

I'm sure you're joking, but just in case... he's averaging 4 assist to 1 turnover per game in 19 minutes. For comparison, Rip is 2nd on the Pistons with 4.4 assists per game (and averages 2.2 turnovers) in 35 minutes.

[Mad Hatter]

Originally Posted by TaShawn

I'm not Lee, but if I were, i would post the following:

Good followup. Didn't mean to highjack this thread but I couldn't resist a good natured remark about YKW in response to Lee. Best link I can provide is this very familiar one.

HoopsHype - NBA Rumors

Orlando Sentinel staff writer Tim Povtak (dated 12/16) has the article I was referring to.

As for Arroyo...I indeed was joking. I hadn't seen an update from Lee lately so I wanted to make sure he wasn't asleep at the wheel. Especially since he actually watched that game.

Btw, I'm sure you're joking with the Rip/Arroyo comparisons since there is no mention of scoring, fg%, 3pt%, steals, rebounds or any other meaningful stat.

[buddahfan]

Nice for him to have Big Shot in his corner.

Detroit is used to getting solid contributions from Maxiell (11 points, six blocked shots) and Arron Afflalo (career-high 11 points), but the Pistons also got solid play from seldom-used Amir Johnson.


Johnson, who did not play (coaches decision) in two of Detroit's three previous games, had seven points, six rebounds and three blocked shots on Sunday.


"Amir got out and played some real good minutes and showed you guys what he's capable of," said Detroit's Chauncey Billups, who had 19 points and six assists.

MLive.com: Everything Michigan

[TaShawn]

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter

Btw, I'm sure you're joking with the Rip/Arroyo comparisons since there is no mention of scoring, fg%, 3pt%, steals, rebounds or any other meaningful stat.

No, not comparing him to Rip. Just showing how many assists 4 off the bench is... considering we only have 2 players who average that many, and they get twice as many minutes.

Carlos is a valuable bench player.

So, what did Orlando get in exchange for the expiring contract of Kelvin Cato?

They got Carlos Arroyo, a solid bench player, + the production of Darko for 1.5 years + his expiring contract, which they used to help pay for Rashard Lewis.

They didn't get swindled.

[buddahfan]

Originally Posted by Lee356

Sorry, the first round pick was for Arroyo. We got nothing but an expiring contract for Darko.

Pistons get Cato, first-round pick for Darko, Arroyo

The Detroit Pistons gave up on Darko Milicic on Wednesday night, trading the No. 2 pick in the 2003 draft to the Orlando Magic along with Carlos Arroyo for a first-round selection and center Kelvin Cato.

As far as I know it was a package deal. No way we would ever get a first round pick for Arroyo unless it was a first round pick for the Mad Ants in the D league or in those days the Skyforce.

ESPN - Pistons get Cato, first-round pick for Darko, Arroyo - NBA

[FreshPrince22]

Originally Posted by buddahfan

You could be correct, but we know that Flipper's offense is a bit complicated and involves a lot more team play than AJ was used to at Westchester High and in the D. league. Prior to this year AJ had still only played 60 games above the high school level.

Also our defense is pretty sophisticated with help outs, rotations etc.

So what Flipper might be alluding to is that AJ still needs to execute better against the play book, because the Pistons aren't a free lancing type team neither on offense or defense which is the only type of hoops that AJ has played in his life before this year. The 11 games with us over the last two years really don't count because they were either meaningless games at the end of the year or just a little bit of garbage time.

Maybe that is what Flipper has held against AJ and still does; i.e., AJ still ain't playing by the book, which clearly our starters do, probably to a fault as was seen in last year's playoff series against the Cavs.

So you're saying the starters don't turn the ball over, blow defensive assignments, and freelance offensively every single night? I mean, tons of freelancing goes on among the starters. It's not like Amir is jacking up a bunch of shots. He's lucky if he gets 1 post-up a night. If anything, Amir seems to play more within the system than anyone else in Garbage time. On D, it's tough to tell. The nature of garbage time D is erratic. He seemed to be in good position most of the time today against Golden State. I just don't know what Flip could have meant by that quote, especially after this game. Seems like odd timing.

[buddahfan]

Originally Posted by FreshPrince22

So you're saying the starters don't turn the ball over, blow defensive assignments, and freelance offensively every single night? I mean, tons of freelancing goes on among the starters. It's not like Amir is jacking up a bunch of shots. He's lucky if he gets 1 post-up a night. If anything, Amir seems to play more within the system than anyone else in Garbage time. On D, it's tough to tell. The nature of garbage time D is erratic. He seemed to be in good position most of the time today against Golden State. I just don't know what Flip could have meant by that quote, especially after this game. Seems like odd timing.

I believe that as of today we are number #1 in turnovers; i.e., lowest in the league.

I am not saying those other things either. I am just saying that might be what Flipper is thinking or rationalizing for a reason not to play AJ.

I am also saying that it is a fact that AJ has very little experience playing in as complicated an offense and defense that we have. In fact he probably has almost none.

So what might look like a good play maybe was in fact a blown assignment. Do are starters blow assignments? Yes of course they do but I don't think that anyone will argue, or at least I hope not, that AJ knows as much about playing within our system as do the guys playing ahead of him; i.e. Sheed, Dyess and Maxey. So they clearly know how to better integrate with the other guys out there on the court than AJ does.

The whole idea is to get AJ's game down to where he can play within our system with 3 or 4 starters and not just with the second unit. So that involves learning and experience.

To get that he needs to play. But if he goes out there and makes the same mistakes over and over it certainly isn't going to work if they try and play him with our starters.

So he needs to be brought along slowly but surely.

It seems to me however that he really needs to be playing between 5 and 10 minutes a night except in blowouts where he can certainly play more like he did today, and that includes non-garbage time minutes. But still on nights that he makes a mistake that maybe he shouldn't have because he has made it a number of times before and been corrected for it, I can see Flipper pulling him.

Right now AJ is in Pistons boot camp, especially when it comes to playing defense.

I just don't want to see him falling behind Brezec and or Herrmann on our depth chart and as a result spend his game nights in street clothes, like Herrmann did tonight.

We shall see what happens.

[buddahfan]

McKrapsky has Brezec ahead of AJ.

Lord help us.

Brezec, who averaged 10.6 points and 5.5 rebounds as the starting center in Charlotte, will be the fourth big man here. That is not a problem for him.

Joining the 'Bad Boys' is all good

[round]

he's in the last year of a contract and maybe can make a valuable addition come playoff time.... however he has a track record and we know what he can give basically. toss him enough time to keep him from having to much rust, but AJ has a ceiling that is far higher and needs the mins day and night to work on his game.

I am so sick of writers trying to make storys.... has anybody in the pistons said he's number 4? I don't remember seeing it if so. All I see is comments that both will have chances to add to the team at some point.