Flip not Coming Back per WDFN - Page 12 - Detroit Pistons Fan Community

CloudWalker · #**111** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaShawn

By sure thing, I guess I mean a guy who is capable of doing the basic things an NBA coach is asked to do.

Okay I'll play along

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaShawn

Design plays,

Not many players purportedly had the inside track on plays like Curry did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaShawn

make decisions, deal with personel, etc.

Head of the players association?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaShawn

I'm not saying "pick the guy who will for sure bring you a ship."

If Joe could do that we wouldnt be talking about Flip right now...

... but i see what you are saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaShawn

For those reasons, I'd go with Avery Johnson, Terry Porter, Bill Laimbeer, Jeff Fricken Van Gundy, or any other guy with coaching experience over Michael Curry. There is a reason guys pay their dues.

Different strokes for different folks. If Joe picks Curry I think he has just as good of a chance to succeed/ fail (I'm keeping an open mind

) as anyone.

TaShawn · #**112** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 01:50 AM

LB had a lot of experience and only a .558 NBA coaching record compared to Flip's .597 mark.

JVG and Avery both have better playoff records than Flip.

CloudWalker · #**113** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaShawn

LB had a lot of experience and only a .558 NBA coaching record compared to Flip's .597 mark.

JVG and Avery both have better playoff records than Flip.

Are you looking at base winning percentage or time spent in the final 2 rounds?

**max** · #**114** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 02:11 AM

Coaches? I think its safe to say that the Laimbeer ship sailed years ago. He is pretty much a no show around the Palace these days except for Shock games. Maybe he is not even interested anymore.

Dumars denied that Curry has the job, its up to him, Avery and Porter. But someone else can enter the Picture.

Curry was a mrginal player and yet was the Union leader. There is something special about him that could work out for us. It would be a risk but so would anyone else. What happened with Avery that he could not get the team with the best record out of the 1st round 2 years ago? That scares me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roscoe36

You're right.

I haven't listened to this particular interview yet however Joe has zero credibility in my opinion.

Let his actions speaker louder than his words. Since 2004, he has been an overrated GM living off his reputation of signing Larry Brown, drafting #2 and trading for Sheed.

So much crap about a team that will play hard, that he isn't afraid to make moves, about accountability etc. It's time for Dumars to walk the walk, we've all heard his talk, and for 3 years, it's been a lot of BS.

Well it is time for him to step up. No doubt about that. All that talk of holding players accountable last summer and yet the swich was very alive during the season. Then again, its hard to consider a 59 team win a failure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumars4Ever

I agree about Amir.

And I still don't think playing him would have gotten us to the Finals this year, not with multiple starters disappearing at key times in the ECF.

With how close the games were at some point. In game 5 getting to within a point with a min to go, having a 10 point lead in game 6. Someone like Amir could have pushed us over the top and especially helped out on the glass.

Overall. This is a good thing guys. Some momentum is finally going to be put in motion. I don't know whats going to happen out of it. We could be a .500 team and lose in the 1st round or we could get back to the Finals. At any rate, its going to make for a much more interesting season. I think they have to do something or risk losign some fans. The we are better than the game attitude is so old and few want to see it anymore.

CloudWalker · #**115** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max

Dumars denied that Curry has the job, its up to him, Avery and Porter. But someone else can enter the Picture.

Actually....he responded with a coy "who said that?"

If your girlfriend/wife responded in kind to an accusation that she was cheating on you.......(with a "who said that" rather than a blatant denial) what would you think?

I rest my case your honor.

pass99 · #**116** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Slippywalker

he had three chances to win more than 2 games in the ECF and came up short. I'd like to see how the team shakes out. I think the window of opportunity has closed on this bunch and switching out one piece isn't gonna help.

Correct. JD back himself into a corner with a delusional hope that these series of multi-millionaires will gain a sense of self respect and overcome their past placid attempts of finishing the race.

A new coach will not help because this is a players league, unless you have the dual hats of GM-Coach where you lay a clear path: my way or the highway. Only two coaches can lay out that line and that is POP and Jackson, although the latter does not have the GM title, he rules the roost with his open pathway to the owner.

For me, its out in the open now. JD better hope Davidison lives longer to help him thread through his delusional debts to be paid for past escapades. This latter accomplishment, which many forum members accept only as a cause now lost and rebuilding on the horizon, will have no relief from agony. Personally, I don't have that all-or-nothing believe that unless the win is total and complete, with only you left standing, legitimizes your mountain top.

Now we can see with this change if JD has grown too fat, secretive and isolated to remember the road he has traveled up the mountain. Make no mistake, having power changes everyone. His common maturity has taken a big hit with me.

The summits of the various kinds of business are, like the tops of mountains, much more alike than the parts below--the bare principles are much the same; it is only the rich variegated details of the lower strata that so contrast with one another. But it needs traveling to know that the summits are the same. Those who live on one mountain believe that their mountain is wholly unlike all others.

Walter Bagehot, The English Constitution

lpgrl26 · #**117** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Curry is the right man for the job at the right time because he's hungry for the opportunity. He's been groomed for this position. He's a former Piston. He's hard-nosed.

"And guess what, he can flat-out coach," one Pistons player told me during the Eastern Conference finals. "He knows what he's doing. He commands the respect of the players not only because he knows what he's doing, but also because he's not scared to get in anyone's face."

"He'll hold people accountable," Dumars said recently, when discussing Curry's head coaching potential. "Every team needs that, but especially one competing for a championship."

Quote:

Understand, the end for Saunders may have officially come Tuesday, but his days have been numbered since Game 5 of last season's conference finals, when he allowed LeBron James to erupt for 29 of Cleveland's final 30 points.

In that game, Saunders never double-teamed James, wearing his veterans down in the process. The tactic failed so badly that Rasheed Wallace, irate after the loss to the Cavaliers, erupted with a profanity-laced tirade in the locker room, vehemently lamenting Saunders' refusal to place faith in younger players on the squad.

After the Pistons lost that series in the ensuing Game 6, Wallace pulled a reporter to the side and begged for the return of none other than Larry Brown, who all the players profoundly respected and wanted to play for. They understood Brown's return was impossible because Pistons owner Bill Davidson wasn't about to forgive Brown for his reported pursuit of the Cleveland Cavaliers head coaching job while still a member of the Pistons' payroll. Still, that didn't diminish the team's ache for the Hall of Fame coach.

Most of the Detroit players liked Saunders as a person. Despite quiet rumblings about his penchant for calling just three plays, they still respected his knowledge of X's and O's, along with a Pistons coaching record of 176-70.

What the players couldn't respect was his unwillingness -- despite the prodding of Dumars and several veterans -- to trust younger players such as Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson because of the toll that it was visibly taking on Wallace, Antonio McDyess and others.

Quote:

"We still love LB," one player said, requesting anonymity. "LB was something special. He knew his stuff but also knew us to a tee.

"Then there's the time he calls us into a huddle like there's some emergency or something during the 2004 Finals against the Lakers. We're here thinking it's something drastic. And then he says, 'You know … I love you guys.' We all cracked up laughing and were relaxed the rest of the series.

"LB just knew how to touch us. Affect us. You don't teach that, man. You either have that relationship with the players or you don't. We respect Flip, but he doesn't have that. Curry does. And he will."

Dumars was in no playing mood Monday. The Pistons president of basketball operations made it clear he believes his team is a championship contender. He believes they've underachieved. And he believes a primary cause is the need for, as he put it, a "new voice, a new direction and new leadership."

edited for link;

ESPN - Dumars deserves props for thinking outside the box - NBA

CloudWalker · #**118** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpgrl26

I'm unsure where this article is from so i'm just posting the whole thing. (Roscoe if that's not ok, feel free to delete it)

This is definately a must read . . .

Joe Dumars must be on something!

That was the word circulating through the NBA's grapevine yesterday among those lacking insight into what's been taking place with the Detroit Pistons over the past year. These folks, stunned by Dumars' announcement that he was dismissing Flip Saunders as his head coach, were equally flabbergasted over news that assistant Michael Curry -- who has zero experience as a head coach -- would replace a man who had just finished guiding the Pistons to a third consecutive Eastern Conference finals appearance.

Whatever Dumars is on, here's all I have to say: We should all want some of it.

Kudos to Dumars for veering away from conventional thinking and avoiding the trap of bringing in the same old retreads we respect and admire … despite their inability to get the job done. In elevating Curry to head coach -- a move that's expected to be announced any day now -- Dumars has sent a clear message to everyone within the Pistons' organization that everyone's expendable, and more importantly, that the franchise he assembled this millennium is expected to achieve much more than simply reaching six consecutive conference finals, and securing just one NBA title.

Curry is the right man for the job at the right time because he's hungry for the opportunity. He's been groomed for this position. He's a former Piston. He's hard-nosed.

"And guess what, he can flat-out coach," one Pistons player told me during the Eastern Conference finals. "He knows what he's doing. He commands the respect of the players not only because he knows what he's doing, but also because he's not scared to get in anyone's face."

"He'll hold people accountable," Dumars said recently, when discussing Curry's head coaching potential. "Every team needs that, but especially one competing for a championship."

Case closed.

Understand, the end for Saunders may have officially come Tuesday, but his days have been numbered since Game 5 of last season's conference finals, when he allowed LeBron James to erupt for 29 of Cleveland's final 30 points.

In that game, Saunders never double-teamed James, wearing his veterans down in the process. The tactic failed so badly that Rasheed Wallace, irate after the loss to the Cavaliers, erupted with a profanity-laced tirade in the locker room, vehemently lamenting Saunders' refusal to place faith in younger players on the squad.

After the Pistons lost that series in the ensuing Game 6, Wallace pulled a reporter to the side and begged for the return of none other than Larry Brown, who all the players profoundly respected and wanted to play for. They understood Brown's return was impossible because Pistons owner Bill Davidson wasn't about to forgive Brown for his reported pursuit of the Cleveland Cavaliers head coaching job while still a member of the Pistons' payroll. Still, that didn't diminish the team's ache for the Hall of Fame coach.

Most of the Detroit players liked Saunders as a person. Despite quiet rumblings about his penchant for calling just three plays, they still respected his knowledge of X's and O's, along with a Pistons coaching record of 176-70.

What the players couldn't respect was his unwillingness -- despite the prodding of Dumars and several veterans -- to trust younger players such as Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson because of the toll that it was visibly taking on Wallace, Antonio McDyess and others.

Plus, Saunders wasn't Larry Brown.

"We still love LB," one player said, requesting anonymity. "LB was something special. He knew his stuff but also knew us to a tee.

"I remember one game [Pistons guard Chauncey Billups] put up like 28 points, 10 rebounds and nine assists. He was one assist away from a triple-double, and ecstatic. Then LB walks up to him and says, 'You don't have a clue how to play point guard for me, do you?' [Billups] just bowed his head like a lost puppy.

"Then there's the time he calls us into a huddle like there's some emergency or something during the 2004 Finals against the Lakers. We're here thinking it's something drastic. And then he says, 'You know … I love you guys.' We all cracked up laughing and were relaxed the rest of the series.

"LB just knew how to touch us. Affect us. You don't teach that, man. You either have that relationship with the players or you don't. We respect Flip, but he doesn't have that. Curry does. And he will."

Dumars was in no playing mood Monday. The Pistons president of basketball operations made it clear he believes his team is a championship contender. He believes they've underachieved. And he believes a primary cause is the need for, as he put it, a "new voice, a new direction and new leadership."

Considering his relationship with Curry, as well as Curry's relationship with the players assembled, it's not hard to understand why Dumars elected to go in this direction.

Dumars has tradable commodities in Billups, Hamilton and Wallace, who'll be in the last year of his contract next season. But most of all, he has veterans looking for a coach to respect, one who can relate to their trials and tribulations, so he can demand something so much more than they were ever able to give Saunders.

Dumars knows this. The players know this. Curry knows this. And after the pain subsides, if Saunders is honest with himself, he'll acknowledge he knows this, too.

What the rest of us think doesn't matter.

Another NBA Finals series is here, and the Pistons are not in it. What else do we need to know, exactly?

Nice...that reads like Freep...am I correct?

mikhail1973 · #**119** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloudWalker

Nice...that reads like Freep...am I correct?

That's Stephen Smith: ESPN - Dumars deserves props for thinking outside the box - NBA

lpgrl26 · #**120** (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 03:43 AM

I checked and didn't see it. I found it on a b-ball forum and it didn't have a link, but i'm really curious as to where it came from because that's alot of stuff i've never heard before . . .

edited to add;

Thanks Mikhail. Figures it's Steven A Smith.