Does anyone here see any value in a Tay for Artest swap. I know Mr D would frown on it, but it's about winning now and I read comments last year that ron-ron respected Joe and actually would not mind playing for the Pistons.

I am sure David Stern would get a kick out of seeing Artest in a Piston uniform...so would the pacer fans, but it would also mean that we are putting past histories behind and serious about winning....After all we lost some toughness when Ben left and apparently Tay loses it in the third round of every playoff series

The Lakers lost because they were to soft and they are already preparing to make a run at him

I didn't compared any money but Please list the + and - on why Joe should consider this deal??

He shouldn't consider it because it will never happen. Davidson wouldn't frown on it, he'd say no (and not no in the sense that he could be convinced otherwise, but no in the even if you killed me to get it done I would come back as a ghost and make sure it never, ever, never, ever, ever happened).

Also, Ron Artest is a loser. He doesn't win, so trading for him to win is counter productive. He will always do something horribly stupid and costly when there is pressure on him. He's insane (and I mean that literally).

OK got your vote Hobbs,,,,but if Tay is going to be the sacrificial lamb, give me a body that you would trade him for.... We have already beaten the Sheed for and CB for trades to death... Since this one is a Tay thread lets hear some scenarios out there?? I'm off to see Get Smart, so I will check back later to see if Artest is winning this non official poll or some other body... Remember we can also push Tay back to the backup and acquire someone else to start in his place

What about Jefferson? The guy has always played decent defense, he's got reliable jump shot and he can get to the basket.

Ok, he can play excelently (remember?) 5-6 40min (playoff!) games in a row, but he obviously can't 12+... so what?
Look at his constitution!
... what about Billups fatigues 06 and 07? - and he is the most important player in the team!

Saunders should just provide a backup player for Prince during regular... maybe like giving Herrmann a fair chance? ...since it was clear all the time that Hayes will be completely useless in playoff bball... or AA, AJ?

But HE didn't...

There's all kinds of possibilities for Tay. He's part of the Anthony rumor, for example. Portland has been rumored to be interested in him (I'm guessing Outlaw, the 13th pick and something else). Jefferson is out there although NJ wouldn't want Tay's contract back as their goal is shedding salary. Any number of deals are out there for Tay.

+
1) Artest plays physical D vs Tay's "I'll use my wingspan to avoid contact cuz I might get hurt"..."I'll sneak in and get a block from behind for the highlight reel"..."MOMMY!?! Lebron's running full speed straight at me!!! What should I do!?!?" approach to defense.

2) Artest is far more adept at steals

3) Artest has more than one move in the post

4) Artest has one year left on his contract (would cut $1M off the 08-09 payroll)

-
1) Artest has been psychotic unpredictable off the court

2) Artest has one year left on his contract (even with a good season in Detroit, I think he'd bolt afterward)


I was gonna say Ronnie is more injury-prone than Tay, but then realized the silliness of that point


All-in-all, who knows how playing in Detroit would affect Ron-Ron? He might either regain his DPOY title or end up sleeping with a rifle in his truck in the Palace parking lot.

__________________
"What you drive, drives America."

http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/

Wow, Scoe , I guess when he said, don't pass him the ball, he meant it.

Prince is the one person that can use that excuse. Also I'm a big believer in mental fatigue, and also not so much how many minutes you play which is important, but when (and how long) you get your breaks.

That's why the only two players that have any weight with me when they say they were fatigued are Prince and Sheed (I can't count how many times Sheed played amost the entire 1st half or 2nd half with a 2 min break. Also Sheed emotionally exhausts himself with all the energy he probably spends quietly driving himself crazy over Flip and the refs.) Am i stating this is the reason they lost? No. Contributing factor? Probably.

Everyone else on the team can STFU about fatigue.

I know Tay is a vet that should be able to adjust to logging long minutes and being asked to perform multiple roles, but I feel Flip used him incorrectly. What was Tay NOT asked to do? Let's talk in general and specifically regarding the Celtics series:

1. Defend there best scorer in Pierce.
2. Be our best help defender.
3. Rebound since Sheed can't/won't, and Dice is undersized to be a full-time C.
4. Score inside and out.
5. Distribute the ball from the wings.
6. Bring the ball up as Billups races down the court to get in position to hoist a three .

OK, so that last one didn't happen all that often, but the steal by Posey that started Boston's late charge began with Prince rebounding the ball, and the guards running into the front court leaving Prince to do it himself, which of course led to that turn over. You would never see that happen with a team coached by LB, Riley, or Hubie. NEVER. EVER.

So getting back to the point, while Pippen for example was able to seemingly shift between all those responsibilities at will, and sometimes perform all of them to an incredibly high standard, Prince has shown he is not capable of doing so over the course of a playoff run. Now I don't blame him, as few players in the history of the game can do that. BUT, if asked to do one or two of those things, over 36 odd minutes, I am still confident he would provide what the team needs, and in that context I ams till a big believer in him.