Reality Check... - Detroit Pistons Fan Community

G-man · #1 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 11:15 AM

I gotta tell ya, if I didn’t know better I’d think I wandered into the Knicks forum.
Living in the south for the last decade and watching the Detroit sports teams from afar really makes you appreciate the runs (and the core players) of the top two franchises in town. Detroit fans have had an embarrassment of riches.

Lets look objectively at the Pistons since 2001/2002, look at the players and what their efforts gave the fans in here.

2001/2002, Coach Carlisle arrives and Coach George Irvin departs. The Pistons go 50-32 and win their Division title. They get in a dogfight with Toronto then lose in the semi’s to the Celtics. Carlisle is Coach of the Year. They draft Rodney (lead butt) White and pick up Okur with the 38th pick. They renounce rights to a host of guys, Derek Harper, Barros, Billy Owens, Williamson and Joe D. By fall they waive Ricky Price, Nate Green and Reggie Geary. They sign FA Damon Jones and re-sign Corliss. They sign Vardka and Zelly. They trade Cleaves for Jon Barry. They sign Cardinal and Victor Alexander (there are still guys in here who thought he was the next Patrick Ewing). Our team is anchored by Big Ben, Stackhouse ( I still miss him taking it inside to dust the floor with his ass) Atkins, Curry, Barry, Williamson and Damon Jones.

Back in 2002/2003 the Pistons finished 52-30 under Coach Carlisle. It was the year John Hammond was promoted to VP and Hamilton arrived. Big Ben was Defensive Player of the Year. Prince and Okur were drafted, C-note was signed as a free agent and the team bought out Mikki Moores contract. They won the Division and lost in the Eastern Conference Finals. They did it with guys like these passing through the roster that season, Hubert Davis, Ricky Moore, Gabe Muoneke, Anthony Pelle, Mengke Bateer, Don Reid, Danny Manning and the great Juan Sanchez. They also dropped good old Rodney White on Denver.

In 2003/2004, in came Larry Brown and Rasheed. In the draft they pick up Darko Milicic, Carlos Delfino and Andreas Glyniadakis. They go 54-28, don’t take the Division but win the East Conference then take out the Lakers in the Finals. Lest we forget, let’s see who rode the pine that year, Elden Campbell, Bobby Sura (we unloaded the famous Pipi Sanchez and Blunt Robinson on Golden State for “Sure Shot Sura“), Ham, Ronald Dupree, Chris Garner, Rod Grizzard, A.J. Guyton, Justin Hamilton and Tang Hamilton, Derrick Zimmerman, Tremaine Fowlkes, Corliss, Chucky and Zelly. We picked up Hunter at the deadline. Who’s carrying the water on this team? Oh yea, that’s also the year we sent Curry packing to Toronto.

In 2004/2005, Coach Brown is still at the helm. The Pistons go 54-28, win the Division, win the Eastern Conference by taking Miami in 7, then lose to the Spurs. Who’s taking care of business? Who’s sliding on pine? Let’s see, they pick up McDyess, trade Corliss and his salary for Coleman and McCaskill. They load up with Ron Dupree, Nigel Dixon, Smush Parker and Terrence Shannon. Horace Jenkins and Anthony Goldwire slide through the system. And good old Darko is still getting support from a number of crazed fans who think he’s gotten the biggest Murphy in the history of the franchise (you know who you are)..

In 2005/2006, Coach Brown is Gone and Coach Flip arrives. They go 64-18. They win the Division but end up losing to the Heat in the Conference Finals. C-Note, Hamilton, Big Ben and Wallace all go the All-Star game. Ben wins his 4th DPY. Who’s on deck? Let’s see, Maxiell, Mo Evans, Dale Davis, Carlos Arroyo, Tony Delk, Hunter and Delfino. The Pistons draft AJ and Acker and when the smoke clears Big Ben is chiming in Chi-town.

So far, 4 Division Titles, 2 Conference Titles and 1 Championship.

In 2006/2007, Coach Flip is still in house. They go 53/29. They take another Division title but lose to Cleveland in the Conference Finals. They drop Evans for rights to Samb and pick up Blaylock at 60. The sign Nazr and pick up Webber late. The supporting cast includes Ron Murray, Dupree and Dale Davis. AJ gets a couple games. Delfino and Maxiell play major roles.

Finally 2007/2008. Flips coaching in a box. We go 59/23 and take another Division title and lose to the hated Celtics in the Eastern Finals (okay it’s me, I always hate the Celtics). Our cast includes Dixon, Hayes, Nazr (for a minute), Maxiell, Dupree (for a second), Hermann, Brezec and Ratliff.

Since 2001 - The Pistons have carried their fans to 4 Division Titles, 2 Eastern Conference Titles, 6 straight Conference Finals and 1 Championship. But, what've ya done for me lately?

Outside of the first year noted it’s mostly been on the backs of Big Ben, C-note, Hamilton, Prince and Sheed. Notable “also rans” include Hunter, McDyess, Stackhouse, Corliss, Jon Barry, a little Atkins, some Damon, and a spot of Barros early.

That’s one helluva run. Yes they should’ve won against Cleveland. Other than that it is what is. A fantastic run of seasons that fans anywhere else in the league outside of LA or San Antonio would pull their eye teeth for. Yes it’s frustrating not to have been coached better at crucial times. To not have seen better rotations and players that always play at 110%. To not have injuries at crucial times late in post seasons.

But damn man, we got guys in here hoping Chris Mullin will just consider taking C-Note for Biedrins? Show some friggin respect.

With no major changes except Curry this Pistons roster is still good for 55 wins. These guys aren’t that old. Some of ya’ll are just jaded. If you’re never going to be satisfied with anything other than a Championship, guess what, you’re gonna spend a lot of time with your chin rubbing your chest.

I want to win it all every year, but I know it’s impossible. That being said I want to see good sound Piston basketball. I appreciate what Detroit fans have because I can go pull the recent history of every other team in the league and it won’t read like this summary does and I know that already. Sometimes ya gotta stop and smell the roses along the way. There is no destination without the journey. Quit sounding like crybabies.

Feeling sorry for yourselves cause the team fell short of the Championship? Want to dump very good solid players for guys that'll end up in the history books along with names like Varda, Zelly, Sanchez, Reid and Arroyo?

Just ask Roscoe about Toronto.

kpaav · #2 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 11:22 AM

I concur. In Atlanta, a .500 season in any sport is considered good. People don't even care about the teams, and the experience at the arena's, bars, etc. is horrible. Just being able to nitpick at the negatives of championship quality teams is awesome.

basketbills · #3 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 11:34 AM

Excellent overview and perspective Mr. G.

Quote:

Varda, Zelly, Pipi Sanchez, Reid and Arroyo?

So much unrealized potential in that group!

Keep in mind that even during the Championship year folks were bitterly complaining about the use of the bench.

Ernie the Slow Adult · #4 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 11:37 AM

I disagree. The shame of the last few years is that they've had the makings of a multiple championship squad, but the team will not go the extra mile to put them over the top. It is not just the players, but management also, who'd rather walk around as figurative 6 time champs versus actual champions. Money wins out every time.

As for the scene, The Palace sounds like a library, a library with thunder sticks and a Jumbotron telling people what to do but a library all the same, compared with the BOS or CLE crowds. They've been neutered somewhere along the way.

Ernie the Slow Adult · #5 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basketbills

Keep in mind that even during the Championship year folks were bitterly complaining about the use of the bench.

I hate when they sit on that thing, can't they just stand?!?!?!?!

kpaav · #6 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie the Slow Adult

I disagree. The shame of the last few years is that they've had the makings of a multiple championship squad, but the team will not go the extra mile to put them over the top. It is not just the players, but management also, who'd rather walk around as figurative 6 time champs versus actual champions. Money wins out every time.

As for the scene, The Palace sounds like a library, a library with thunder sticks and a Jumbotron telling people what to do but a library all the same, compared with the BOS or CLE crowds. They've been neutered somewhere along the way.

Wow. Thats depressing. Although I have seen the Palace on TV, I didn't know the state was as bad as you say. Last game I went to was during 2005 Series against the Spurs and it was rocking. I do agree ownership deserves a lot of blame for frugality, but it is really rare to get owners like Mark Cuban and the computer guy from the Blazers that want a winner rather than a moneymaker. The truth is though, you make a winner you make more money, see Tampa Bay Rays.

basketbills · #7 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie the Slow Adult

I hate when they sit on that thing, can't they just stand?!?!?!?!

No! I'm not going to get into that debate again with you!

G-man · #8 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpaav

but it is really rare to get owners like Mark Cuban and the computer guy from the Blazers that want a winner rather than a moneymaker.

Hmmm..
How many Championships, Semi-finals and Division titles have these two combined teams won during the era referred to again? Why leave out the Knicks? They spend freely too, add their banners to that long list of money well spent...

roscoe36 · #9 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 12:13 PM

Nice post G-man.

You know how Celtics and Lakers fans are so annoying?

We are becoming like that. Oh, the horror!

kpaav · #10 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-man

Hmmm..
How many Championships, Semi-finals and Division titles have these two combined teams won during the era referred to again? Why leave out the Knicks? They spend freely too, add their banners to that long list of money well spent...

G-man I'm with you about the State of the Pistons. I am not saying those teams were winners, but spenders. Its just to deflect the criticism Davidson gets for being "cheap," by not wanting to go over the luxury tax. The same mantra most teams - including the Spurs - have.

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