Being a Toronto-native, I have to have SOME hometeam love .

So what do you guys think of the Raptors and the situation their in? The new GM Rob Babcock is a complete and udder moron IMO but I feel for his situation.

Players don't want to come to Toronto because it's:

1. In Canada (which is a lovely place if people only gave it a chance)
2. Taxes are higher here than in the States.
3. Not America (where people have lots of pride and would rather play in the States)

Toronto is a beautiful city with a lot of things to do; however, the common misconception is that its a boring place. It stops lots of high profile players from even wanting to come and stops draftee players from wanting to be drafted (i.e rumour was Gerald Green refused to come to Toronto).

So that leaves Babcock with little options on who he can draft cause he doesn't want to get players that won't try; but then he'll go and draft players like Rafael Araujo and Charlie Villaneuva 50 spots ahead of what they should be drafted .

Its a lose-lose situation. Basketball is huge here and I'd hate to see it die.

What would you guys do/have done in Toronto's past to improve it from being a lottery team every year?

Hey whats up Rdang, nice to see you posting. I think one of the problems is the teams franchise value, according to Forbes Magazine (December 2004), their ranked 14th in the league at $297 million.

In the December 2003 Forbes edition they were worth $217 Million, or 19th overall. So the owners saw their equity increase by $80 million while putting a less than average product on the floor. They have no real financial incentive to improve the team. It's a biz and they're making big bucks by lying shoddy goods on the paying fans.

Rob Babcock the GM made the worst move in the history of the Raptors when he traded away Carter for Eric and Aaronn Williams. Then the drafting of Villanueva when you already have the promising Bosh made no sense at all. Stretching out Bonners deal really makes you wonder what these guys are up to, unless it's all about "da pick boss da pick".

Are they tanking the franchise w/l record for the chance at next years #1? They're stockpiling picks which is no secret. They don't stand a chance at making the playoffs, Vegas has them at 8000000 to 1 (okay it's 80-1). They can tank the w/l column and still strike gold if they get the pick and do it all while making money at the turnstiles.

I think it won't be long for everyones pining for the good old days of Glenn Grunwald. The Rapts payroll this season is an astounding +$53mil. Yet they'll be lucky to post 28 wins. Here's a kicker, next season their payroll drops to 44 mil, but the year after 07/08 know how much they have on the books? 11.4 mil, then 4.9 and 5.2. This franchise is set to load up or get shipped out (if they put it on the market).

I think you're in the crosshairs of yesterday and tomorrow all at once. Ya gotta keep the faith for another 18 months and then you'll either see a master plan unfold or a franchise unravel. But I think it's the first of the two.

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"Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down"...Jimmy Durante

I've never been a Raptor's fan, but I've always been a Carter hater. Shipping his apathetic, fragile butt out of town was the best thing they could have done.

Bring back JYD!!

Carter - don't get me started on him .

But that was what I was used to when it came to Toronto and basketball. Winning and success and that was what Carter gave the franchise for a couple years. Grunfield did a decent job (but he also screwed up a lot too). So when it comes to 'rebuilding a team' like they are, I guess it's just a little shaky for me to have faith in an organization that's drafting players like Villaneuva with Bosh there.

I guess the money situation is a good thing, if the stats are true then maybe there is hope. But we gotta resign Bosh soon and he's gonna come at a high price (thats if he even wants to stay). I like Bosh because he's a great athlete and a tremendous competitor (I sound like one of the announcers on the Raptors broadcast right now) but I remember seeing a game where the raps were losing and he started tearing up on the bench.

He hates to lose and he's getting better (they compare him to a young Garnett and I believe it); but by not showing him dedication by putting together a team around him (i.e not drafting someone that already plays his position), it's just gonna push him out and the Raptors can't afford to do that.

Money has never been an issue because Toronto is hockey central. Picture New York in basketball and thats the type of money Toronto makes (okay I'm overexaggerating a bit). But its definately enough to keep the Raptors in town (same ownership). So by having a profit and still losing its not gonna help the image any better and become more attractive to big free agents and upcoming superstars on the draft.

I think that if we brought in Dr. J (when Carter wanted him) it would've helped the image of the company drastically. He would've been a positive public image for the city of Toronto and it would've led to good things. They could've had their Rob Babcock (as moronic as he is) being sort of a puppet master if he really wanted to. Just having Dr. J as the messenger of what the franchise wanted in the end.

It sucks though, because even if Toronto does get #1 draft pick choice next year (which is a REAL possibility with the talent Atlanta has now) I got a feeling they're just gonna blow the draft pick again on another dudd. Like I said, its a lose-lose situation. We get a good draft pick and end up wasting it cause no one wants to come (makes the whole Joe Johnson max out contract make more sense now eh?)

At the risk of making this thread even more Canuck focused, can anyone stand the Raptors announcers?

I swear, I would rather have a hornet crawling inside each ear rather than listen to Chuck Swirsky call a game. He's like a fast talking John Madden. Terribly annoying.

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To all of my friends, comrades and companions at PF.com

Thank you for another great season!

That guy is the NBA version of Richard Vitale. Annoying personified.

Ahahaha, I guess I should have said Mr. Vitale. His first name is to vulgar to print.

My last post was edited for content!

I want to be clear that I was referring to Toronto getting ripped off in the Vinsanity deal. They gave the cat away for a song. I think he had to go, I just don't think the club was using any braincells when they sent him to Joisy for peanuts.

Carter's admission that he was doggin it as a Raptors while his teammates were giving it their all said alot about the guy. Surely there are a ton of players out there that dog it at times. But you don't go public on it. You don't go public right after you got traded, especially when the team trading you just got hosed down like ignorant schoolboys.

Check this from 1/7/05, "By his own admission, Vince Carter didn't play to his full potential with the Toronto Raptors."

In a televised interview with TNT NBA analyst John Thompson on Thursday, the New Jersey Nets guard admitted that he did not push himself as hard as he should have in Toronto.

"In years past, no," he said.

"I was fortunate to have the talent...you get spoiled when you're able to do a lot of things. You see that you don't have to work at it. Now, with the all the injuries, I have to work harder; I'm a little hungrier. Getting a fresh start has made me want to attack the basket."

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=110409&hubname=nba

But you know the NBA can't let that ruin all that "Vinsanity" marketing. IN July he'd been re-habbed enough to be presented with the NBA's Community Assist Award. If you're a Raptor fan, that has to fry your eggs!

"NEW YORK, Aug. 17, 2005 - In recognition of Vince Carter's community outreach efforts and on-going generosity during the Summer of Goodwill, the NBA announced today it will honor the New Jersey Nets forward with the Community Assist Award for July."

http://www.nba.com/news/carter_community_award.html

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"Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down"...Jimmy Durante

Vince Carter is slime. He could want to come to Detroit for free, and I would say "hell no".

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To all of my friends, comrades and companions at PF.com

Thank you for another great season!

Micro. But you know the NBA has a lot of money and time invested in this guy. And it doesn't hurt that Sterns buddy Rod Thorn ended up with the goods. The east coast was ripe for some "happening ball", the Knicks just weren't gettin it done. It's all about "da green".