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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 01:44 PM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

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Old 12-01-2006, 02:12 PM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

I believe this stat started in hockey. Since there are so many little things you can do in hockey to help your team win and so few goals, a lot of good play didn't show up in the stats. So they started keeping track of how good the team did with and without a player over the long run.

Sometimes it will show you who the MJ is on the team and sometimes it will show who the Stockton is. Usually the more balanced a team is, then the more an enabler will rise to the top. These guys allow everyone around them to play better. However, on a team with a KG, then there isn't much that guy can do when KG isn't on the floor with him.

It is a very multidimensional piece of information.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:49 PM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

Darko is rapidly dropping on the +/- ladder due to his clumsy play of late. Turkoglu, Howard, and Arroyo have all surpassed him. The laws of physics still apply.

Still, Battie is dead last on the team in every conceivable category. In last night's game, Battie was like -21 or something ridiculous.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:16 PM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

There have been quite a few other changes to each team's +/- leaders as well. 15 of the 30 teams find themselves with a new leader.

Atl- Joe Johnson
Bos- Szcerbiak
Cha- Brevin Knight
Cle- Verajao
Den- J.R. Smith
LaL- Kwame
Mem- CHUCKY ATKINS!!!
Mil- Mo Williams
NJ- Krstic
NO- Chris Paul
NY- David Lee
Orl- Turkoglu
Phi- CWebb
Sea- Wilcox
Uta- Derek Fisher
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:16 PM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

Told you they fluctuate nightly.
You only get one number. You don't get a + number and a - number.
If when you are on the court and your team/group out score the opponent you have a plus/positive rating. If your group loses when you are out there you get a negative rating. Doesn't matter those doing the scoring.
I think that's how it works in hockey.

Last edited by TheeTFD : 12-12-2006 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:20 PM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheeTFD View Post
I think that's how it works in hockey.
Yes. But in hockey, only for even strength goals (5 on 5, 4 on 4, 3 on 3). If one team has a power play (one or two man penalty advantage) the goals do not affect +/-.

Basketball doesn't have that situation.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:30 PM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

I like the stat but its not the most important stat as dba pointed out.

Orlando has a great bench as compared to other teams.

Figures out of of all the players on that list we have to focus on Darko.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:14 AM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheeTFD View Post
Told you they fluctuate nightly.
You only get one number. You don't get a + number and a - number.
If when you are on the court and your team/group out score the opponent you have a plus/positive rating. If your group loses when you are out there you get a negative rating. Doesn't matter those doing the scoring.
I think that's how it works in hockey.
Again, that isn't the case. They combine the + and the - for this stat. And the leaders don't fluctuate nightly. But the leaders may change over time... just as the leading scoring average on a team might change over time.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:41 PM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

I tend to put more weight on the "on court" vs off court... there are too many uncotrollable variables with "off court"... some teams simply have superior bench players.
When evaluating individual players I'll look at on court +/- and efficiency ratings which includes more individual performance benchmarks (((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).

At least with these stats you can get some defensive contributions.
I'm glad that we're finally becomming more intellegent fans... I hate when folks throw out scoring numbers as the major criteria.
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:17 PM
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Re: Plus/Minus and its relevance

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaShawn View Post
Darko is rapidly dropping on the +/- ladder due to his clumsy play of late. Turkoglu, Howard, and Arroyo have all surpassed him. The laws of physics still apply.

Still, Battie is dead last on the team in every conceivable category. In last night's game, Battie was like -21 or something ridiculous.
Its true that Darko is dropping in his plus minus, but it is not because of his play. You got to look at the five man unit data. Looking at that, you will see that any unit with Darko in it, as long as Battie is also not in that unit (as Battie seriously drags any unit he is in down) that unit has a solid win percentage. Of late, Darko has been getting paired up a lot with Battie, Garrity, and Bo Outlaw. (While Bo is still a decent player, he ain't Howard.) Orlando fans are going almost bonkers wathching Garrity out there doing practically nothing to help the team. Supposedly, Garrity is suppose to be able to shoot 3's, but his shot has gone completely missing. Basically, the mix of who Darko plays along side of has changed of late, with his time with Howard for instance sliding down to near nothing as Howard has been experiencing some foul trouble.
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