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Originally Posted by TaShawn The offer Delfino got was way richer than the weak dollar can explain. It was a ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2008, 03:19 PM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

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Originally Posted by TaShawn View Post
The offer Delfino got was way richer than the weak dollar can explain. It was a multiple of what he would have received here.
It may have been a multiple, but I don't think the value is wrong. $4.5 is less than the MLE. A young player like Delfino, possible upside, surely is worth a Bobby Simmons/James Posey type deal in a bull market?

The reality is, discretionary spending is under assault (and will continue to be for some time), and the owners are not stupid. They are very bearish on salaries, as they likely are on their profit potential for the next few years. That's allowing Russian and foreign teams to swoop in and pick up NBA MLE range talent for less than the MLE, and appreciably less in their domestic currency. It's a win win for them. They are getting a bargain, and the player is getting a salary he might not have found in the NBA.

That's what happens when a union and (increasingly pro-owner) CBA have to compete with the free market European sports league system. AFAIK, in Europe, you can pay a player whatever you want. You can buy and sell players if you want. It's strictly a system of personal contracts, not organizational collusion for the purposes of wage and profit protectionism.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2008, 03:29 PM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

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Originally Posted by mikhail1973 View Post
Don't forget that European teams manage to play payer's income tax.
What do you mean by this? They pay the US income tax above the salary number that we hear about?
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Old 07-24-2008, 03:45 PM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

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What do you mean by this? They pay the US income tax above the salary number that we hear about?
Kind of. You can use foreign tax paid as a deduction or a credit, depending on certain circumstances. Also, part of the income is free of tax as it is earned while you live outside of US (although in his case it won't make much of an effect since the limits on those are under $100K/year). I am not a tax person, but this is to the best of my knowledge.

If you'd like more info on that, here's one link:
US Citizens Living Abroad, Expatriates, IRS Income Tax Explained

You can also go to IRS website if you have lots of time on your hands.
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:40 PM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

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As a U.S. citizen or resident alien, your worldwide income generally is subject to U.S. income tax regardless of where you are living. Also, you are subject to the same income tax return filing requirements that apply to U.S. citizens or residents living in the United States.
That is the main point I think. For a guy like Delfino, it doesn't matter since he isn't a US citizen anyway. He won't have to pay the enormous US income tax for someone making millions of dollars. However, if an American player went to play in Europe, he would be essentially double taxed. The deductions that the US would allow for taxes paid to his employer country would likely be minimal.

Tax details are boring as %%%%, so don't even bother responding to this.
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:43 PM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

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Originally Posted by TaShawn View Post
That is the main point I think. For a guy like Delfino, it doesn't matter since he isn't a US citizen anyway. He won't have to pay the enormous US income tax for someone making millions of dollars. However, if an American player went to play in Europe, he would be essentially double taxed. The deductions that the US would allow for taxes paid to his employer country would likely be minimal.

Tax details are boring as %%%%, so don't even bother responding to this.
Yeah, there are lotta ins, and outs, and what-have-yous, man.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2008, 08:43 PM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

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Originally Posted by TaShawn View Post
That is the main point I think. For a guy like Delfino, it doesn't matter since he isn't a US citizen anyway. He won't have to pay the enormous US income tax for someone making millions of dollars. However, if an American player went to play in Europe, he would be essentially double taxed. The deductions that the US would allow for taxes paid to his employer country would likely be minimal.

Tax details are boring as %%%%, so don't even bother responding to this.
That's what I heard, basically, if you're from a country like the US that taxes out of country wages, it doesn't help too much. So Childress doesn't get much of a lift from his Greek taxes being paid by the team (though he escapes state taxes).

But for Delfino, and I think most of the other countries that don't tax out of country wages, the fact that he doesn't have to pay taxes combined with the Euro to Dollar ration more than doubles his effective salary.

Also, I wonder how much of this is Joe's fault. He may have started a trend by refusing to pay for decent backups (not counting Nazr) and signing the Tony Delks, Mo Evans, Flip Murrays, and Jarvis Hayes of the world for league minimum. Now other teams are following.

MLE's are an endangered species in the NBA, too good to make league mins, not good enough to get real money.
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:28 AM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

Anthony Goldwire played in Greece.

I think entirely too much is being made of this "trend". Childress and Delfino. Delfino probably won't even last a year in Russia. He may claim an injury or whatever but no way he fulfills his contract.
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:57 AM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

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Anthony Goldwire played in Greece.

I think entirely too much is being made of this "trend". Childress and Delfino. Delfino probably won't even last a year in Russia. He may claim an injury or whatever but no way he fulfills his contract.
I think the whole issue is stemming from this being the first publicly noticed time that a mainstream player is getting paid more to play overseas than they would get playing in the NBA.
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Old 07-25-2008, 10:23 AM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

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I think the whole issue is stemming from this being the first publicly noticed time that a mainstream player is getting paid more to play overseas than they would get playing in the NBA.
True. In the past guys like Bob McAdoo and Darryl Dawkins finished up their careers overseas and got paid more than they would have in the NBA....no guys in their prime though.

But hasn't the NBA has siphoned off enough mainstream players from Europe in recent years to compensate for Childress?
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Old 07-25-2008, 11:05 AM
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Re: It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

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I think the whole issue is stemming from this being the first publicly noticed time that a mainstream player is getting paid more to play overseas than they would get playing in the NBA.
Kinda reminds me of the old ABA days. (or maybe USFL?)
Can a NBA/Euroleague merger materialize in the future?

I realize that were talking about MLE caliber players here but I have a feeling that if the U.S. dollar keeps tanking, the likes of Fino and Childress could be laying the groundwork for some big-time change. All it would take is one or two NBA "stars" or a few highly touted lottery picks to shun "The Association" for BIG European paydays to change the landscape of professional B-Ball.

...I'm not really sure that I'm looking forward to a Lakers vs FENERBAHCE ULKER "WBA Finals" in 2015.
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