Since I post both here and at detnews.com a lot, I can see where someone might think I don't like Evans. Just not true. I point out his shortcomings, but I love his steady shot. His rebounding is ok for his position of small forward, and more than ok if he is subbing for Rip. His defense is not great but yet good and improving as he gains NBA experience. He is really just barely past being a rookie. His ball handling skills have a long way to go, but he should be able eventually to turn his scoring ability into assists as the other team tries to stop him from scoring. He can drive in, or create space for his jumper for which he elevates really well. Sometimes, he does not take his time around the basket. A lot of this is simply inexperience. They let him go in Sacramento for this inexperience, which was just plain unwise on their part and great luck for us.

Arroyo's statline for 14 mins:

Mins - 14 FGM-A 1-6 FTM-A 1-2 PF - 2 PTS - 3

So, you want me to give Arroyo credit for going 14 mins against one of the worst defensive teams in the league and not getting a turnover. If you count all of those bricks he was throwing up that caused a loss of possession I would say that he did have a negative impact.

Rather than addressing all of your questions how bout' we do this.

Red represents negative impacts. Blue represents positive impacts.

Start of the 4th Quarter:

11:44 Carlos missed layup 74-82 Suns (not a good start)
11:42 Ben Wallace Offensive Rebound
11:42 Ben Wallace made two point shot. 76-82 (I guess your calling that an assist?)
11:30 Eddie House missed 20 ft jumper. 76-82
11:10 Carlos Arroyo missed 18 ft jumper. 76-82 (ouch, that's 2 misses)
11:03 Leandro Barbosa made layup. 76-84 (whose man is that, hmm...?)
10:45 Tayshaun Prince made 23 ft jumper. (unassisted) 78-84
10:19 Tayshaun Price missed 12 ft jumper
10:18 Ben Wallace Offensive Rebound
10:18 Ben Wallace made two point shot. 80-84 (guess your calling that Arroyo setting up the play as well)
10:08 Leandro Barbosa's layup blocked by Ben Wallace (way to bail someone out Ben, whose his man again?)

Okay so then Carlos has some good moments...

10:03 Brian Grant Shooting Foul on Carlos Arroyo (at least it doesn't count as another miss)
10:03 Carlos Arroyo missed Free Throw 1 of 2. 80-84 (Dohhhh!!!)
10:03 Carlos Arroyo made Free Throw 2 of 2. 81-84 (Go Carlos, it's ya birthday)
9:52 Boris Diaw made layup. 81-86
9:52 Boris Diaw made free throw 1 of 1. 81-87
9:37 Carlos Arroyo made 19ft jumper. 83-87 (Carlos makes wide open shot, that a boy Los!!!!)

But then things go south again....

9:15 James Jones made 15 ft two point shot. 81-87. (whose guy is that, hmmm...)
9:15 Arroyo fouls James Jones. (ouch!)
9:15 James Jones made Free Throw 1 of 1. 83-90
8:57 Richard Hamilton makes Technical Free throw on Illegal defense call. 84-90
8:47 Tayshaun Prince made 25ft three point jumper. Assisted by Antonio McDyess. (hmm...no touches by Los). 87-90
7:58 Carlos Arroyo missed layup. 87-90 (Another clang)
7:45 Leandro Barbosa made driving layup. 87-92.
7:45 Chauncey Billups enters the game for Carlos Arroyo. 87-92.

So basically although Carlos comes into the fourth quarter with the Pistons down 8 and leaves with them down 5, my take of this is that he had more of a negative impact in the game than a positive one. This is not to say that Carlos is not capeable of better, but he really sucked this game. He will not get any props from me for not being able to keep an offensive player in front of him for 17 minutes or blowing lay up after layup or being unable to help convert easy scores against the weakest defense in the league. Chauncey walked away with 11 assists, Carlos couldn't manage 1? That's a dropoff if I've ever seen one.

__________________
Got Jokes?

or.....it took them until the 4th quarter to solve their offensive wizardy.

Last season under the "Right Way" we lost 97-100 in Phoenix. I also seem to recall a lead given up in the 4th quarter.
The way PHX was nailing jumpers last night I believe we would have lost that game under LB. Just my opinion. Would not have scored enough points.

How can you defend a team that is hitting long 2's and 3's like they were for the better part of 3 quarters?

max, absolutely, we would have lost to Phoenix last year. We would be 3-2 right now. This doesn't guarantee any championship but I think that much is evident.

Lee, you called it right on Evans. I don't believe you have a bias there. But you are way too easy on Arroyo. That is a position that may be pivotal to our championship (should be going for a three-peat).

Carlos Arroyo came in the game in the 3rd quarter with us down 11 points. But for a missed free throw or two, we would have tied the game up pretty much at one point. Your editing is pretty poor. Just because Arroyo got stuck guarding a player a lot taller than him does not make that his man to guard. Just the way things went at the moment.

The last play before Carlos Arroyo came out, Barbosa scored. But think about this. With a couple more free throws made, and Arroyo coming out a moment earlier, CB could have come back in with the score tied, even though he left the game with us down 11. Make fun all you want, but it won't change the fact those were 4th quarter minutes against a very good team. And Arroyo did just fine. PS, I just enjoyed that game again a couple of hours ago.

Can't let it die, huh?

"Editing is pretty poor" (chuckle). Perhaps, but not as poor as any commentary that calls this a good game by Arroyo. Did you ever think for a second that the offense was going at Arroyo because he had shown that he was by far the weakest defender in the game? Or take into account that Nash rested during this run so Arroyo was going up against Phoenix's heralded bench (sarcasm). Funny how you can overanalyze lineups but can't see the obvious.

You are right, he did come in with them down 11 points..but I guess I was giving him a break seeing that although the 4th quarter started with them making up a basket, he did virtually nothing to help them get to that point. In fact, add 3 more misses to the commentary...mostly layups. Arroyo was a liability that game. The only thing Arroyo did not do was trip over his shoe while bringing the ball up court. Lord knows that under Phoenix's pressure defense bringing up the ball was a challenge. (whateva!) Being able to bring the ball up against Phoenix in my opinion does not validate ones contribution to our team. Arroyo was NOT the player making most of the decisions on offense during that run. You want to credit him for the reason why we made up 6 points and I am basically saying that he is the reason why Nash got more rest and we didn't evaporate that lead.

Dude, if this is how you evaluate talent...you are probably still wearing a "Save Rodney White" t-shirt.

Sorry, I see it differently than you. I'm just glad Arroyo's supporting cast carried him during that time. I'm not buying your "just because he was on the court that means he was productive" philosopy. I've noticed that you haven't provided any real details on how his positives outweighed the negatives for him in this game. All, I here is...well, he was out there.

Anyway, I look forward to Arroyo rebounding from this performance, but I have my eye on Mr. Arroyo. He needs to get with the program...or see if he can get you to represent him when he has to deal with Pistons management.

__________________
Got Jokes?

Its not just one game. Arroyo so far is slightly net plus despite all the bench players being net minus so far. (Look at 82games.com.) Per this, its him carrying the rest of the bench, not the other way around. But hey, its early. You can call the fact that we keep winning with Arroyo on the floor a fluke. For a while at least. So keep your delusions for the moment. They will be proven as delusions sure enough soon enough.

Again, I said he had a BAD game. lol! Not that he wouldn't contribute during the season. Funny, the lengths people will take to defend a point when they obviously have none. Nothing you have said has convinced me that he had a good game. You've only proven that it takes little to impress you unless you have an obvious bias against a player. What's next? Carlos is a quick defender because he has short hair. lol.

You've offered nothing to prove your arguement.

And at this point I'm bored with you.