I think this is a helpful point in all the Flip vs. LB, new pistons vs. old pistons debate. It's just too early (just as it was too early when the Pistons were 8-0 to herald Flip as a savior). People may come back and say, well Ben was out for 6 games at the beginning of last year, and LB was having his surgery, but I still think that even over the long haul, the Pistons were just a little better on defense under LB and more than a little worse on offense.

Here's another issue and this is just an impression, but it has seemed to me over the past couple of years that there is a psychological issue at work here. At least, I've often felt frustrated that the Pistons (under both coaches) seem to need to have their backs to the wall before they get serious on defense (and for me there's no question that their defensive intensity appears to transfer to more aggressiveness and more fluidity and rhythm on offense). LB didn't seem to solve that problem and neither has Flip. On the one hand, maybe that's not a big deal -- after all, they've had terrific success in recent seasons and they can certainly pull it off often enough against mediocre and poor teams, and even sometimes against very good teams. But I do think it is part of what separates excellent teams from dominating ones.

The Pistons, on the floor, need to develop the psychological habit of playing at the same level regardless of the quality of the opponent, regardless of the score. No doubt that partly lies with the coach, but this isn't high school, or even college. These guys are grown men and professionals so I feel the responsibility lies primarily with the players and especially with their emotional leaders (who I think are probably Ben, Chauncey, and Sheed). I don't want them to lose entirely that loose sense of confidence they seem to have, even when they are down. But maybe just to ratchet up the sense of urgency, regardless of the situation. Can they make those two coexist?

Apart from that, I think it's probably too early in this campaign to draw too many conclusions about the play of individual players or about the coaching. I get as annoyed as the next guy with losses like last night's, but I think it's good (at least it helps me keep my sanity) to also take the long view and get a little perspective on things.

Ya know what, screw it. Have a great year guys!

I have nothing but love for big Ben but the question I have is if flip went with the Sheed and Dyess lineup in OT how would we have done? Granted Ben fouled out and that is the way it ended up out of necessity but I am not sure if we were down already or not. I don’t know if Ben would take it as a slap in the face or not but to get more of an offensive lineup out there in OT is not a bad idea. Lb went to that lineup occasionally with some moderate success. I understand Ben brings the little things like rebounds and hustle but substitutions can be made for offensive defensive purposes i.e. we have the ball after a free throw sub in Dyess and then commit a foul (given we are not over the limit) and bring Ben back in for him

I don’t know the facts on how effective that is but imo it only makes sense its like when you come out of a time out and you are down 3 you bring in your 3 point shooters with a set play for a 3

I am surprised nobody else brought up the point that we executed poorly after timeouts with little success in finding an easy bucket (lbs bread and butter) I am not ready to say flip hasn’t got the goods based of 1 close game and poor execution (I didn’t see the game but listened to it) so maybe I missed it so lets just say it is something to keep an eye on

Yes, that is a BETTER question. I do agree with bballjay's premise, however. I don't like this 8-man rotation BS at all. I want Delfino and Darko in there. These guys need to play to get better. I'm thinking Darko didn't play because Wash. is a perimeter team and Darko wouldn't have much to defend. I'm not so concerned about his defense. I want to see what he can do on offense. He's supposed to be this offensive wizard in practice. I want him to be given a shot on the court. If we're going to keep these guys around, they need to develop. People say, "Oh, it's early in the season." The season is one-eighth over. It is not too early. As for Delfino, I was not sold on him at all because of his past whining, but he's got the quicks on offense for sure. And as Lee has said, he handles the ball pretty well. We can whine about Delfino and Arroyo not playing defense, but the starting 5 ain't playing great D either.

__________________
"I don't believe there's any problem in this country, no matter how tough it is, that Americans, when they roll up their sleeves, can't completely ignore. - George Carlin

1) We got beat on the boards. I know it was technically even (so the stats say) but we have to outrebound a smaller club like the Wizards. They got too many second-chance opportunities.

2) Rip was terrible. I'm not in the "Dump Rip because he had a bad game" club. But last night was definitely bad. He is a much, much better player within the flow of the offense. That's where he is very dangerous. When he misses some shots, though, he starts pressing and trying to do more than he can. That's when he starts playing out of control and turning the ball over. Flip has to be unafraid to pull him and talk to him when he starts doing that just to calm him down and then stick him back in the game.

3) I thought we should have gone to 'Sheed more in the post early in the game (when we went down 17 or whatever). Washington has no one on their team that has even a prayer of guarding him down there.

4) Chucky Atkins, he of the 23% shooting percentage and 2+ points per game, hit some ridiculous threes. I'm going to avoid drawing any conclusions based on that, which will probably happen to him once more this year (at most).

I do want to say that I thought Rasheed was phenomenal and that should not go unrecognized just because we lost. He almost saved the game for us.

Overall, I'm pretty pleased with Mo Evans but not 100% convinced he's the answer as the backup SF. He seems to be better suited to the backup SG position. I would not be shocked to see Joe D try to deal for a backup 3 at some point before the trading deadline, because Tay is logging way too many minutes again.

I think we need to play Darko or trade him. What we're doing right now is a bit of a waste because he isn't getting enough time to really develop and if we don't think we can afford to give that time to him, we should move him and get something of value back. We have a bit of a wasted asset (whichever way you look at it) sitting on the bench.

Listen everyone. We are Ok and will improve with the players we have until the Rings come. Chemisrty is more important then the best players. We have very good players and good chemistry. 9-2 isn't bad. Remember we are still learning each other , new members, as well as , Flip's new system. LAST NIGHTS LOSS GOT TO ME BECAUSE I FEEL THERE WAS SUCH POOR EXECUTION AND DECISION MAKING AND APPARANT LACK OF COACHING AMD/OR LISTENING TO THE COACH. This will improve.

Why didn't CB continue taking it to the basket vs the 3's. My God I could just hear that coach during the Bad Boy's era going bonkers. You break out by 10 in a very close game you need to bring your DEFENSE to play and quick.Second three pointer TIME OUT !!! Deliberate effective basketball. If this is LB style then there are times during a game when it is important to use this ability. Players always need coaching and the Coach needs to be in CONTROL

Don't get me wrong about Flip. Coach is a human too. He doesn't have all the answers or knowledge. Flip for instance , doesn't know the capabilities of his players yet. We have been watching them for several years. He will learn and be able to much better use the GREAT pieces of a Championship Puzzle that he has been provided. Practice vs real game tight situations are two different things. Only with many more close games under his belt will he be able to effectively coach this group to another Championship.

ABRACO</B></B></B></B></B></B>

Scholas - yes it is too early to tell. I do have to respect The Low for comming out and saying exactly whats on his mind. And he is not alone as many feel that way - just admit it if thats how you feel.

Is the defense worse? Like you said its too early to tell. The defense sucked for the entire 1st half of last season pretty much so its hard to get an accurate gage. Flip is still learning his team and the players are still learning him. Thank goodness we did not have to suffer through an adjustment faze that was accompanied by a losing start as the East is not so weak anymore.

The Jeckyl/Hyde attitude not only on defense but in all areas has been here since Carlisle. Its frusterating, I do not know why. Like you wrote LB did not find a solution either.

One thing is for sure 54 wins is not going to cut it this season. Pistons can win 1, maybe 2 7-game road series in a row but not 3 - thats not going to happen. These early wins are very important. Pistons had the best start and do not even have the top seed anymore. SAN is 10-2

This quote from Lanierfan was directed at The Low and was a Low blow. Why is everyone down on a guy for expressing his opinion? I can't see why you would want to ignore someone because their opinion doesn't mesh with yours.

Last year the Larry Brown forum bashing was reaching a crescendo....and Larry had just won a championship. This year one guy dares to buck the trend and we're all over him??

All good points. Could there have been some sympathy by the refs last night? I am talking overall conspiracy, refs are human and saw a 5-game losing team get the game pulled out from underneath them. 2 questionable calls late in the 4th that would have been the game. Ben taking the charge and getting a blocking foul that allowed Wash to kick it out to Jamison for a 3. And Arenas using his off-arm to knock Chauncey out of the way with Chauncy getting the foul. Either of those calls would have resulted in a Pistons win.

Arenas shot 10-32 and seemed to get most of his calls not on drives but on el-cheepo perimiter calls.

Yes and something has to be done with Darko. Next game Darko has to come out and bring a little more offense as he does seem to act like he has all the time in the world.

On Rip. He will have games like this but many times he has been able to turn it around in the 4th. That did not happen last night.

Rebounding? This is one area I agree needs improvement. Team should make it a priority to focus on boxing out and not letting guys like Butler sail in for easy putbacks.

I like people who buck trends, 'bills. I still wear bellbottoms and would very much like to get shag carpeting in my home. That being said, I hope Low doesn't disappear (like shag carpeting and bellbottoms). We need balance on here. The Pistons, though 9-2, have some glaring holes you could drive a Mack truck through (every team does). No harm in The Low pointing them out.