http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/CHA_425.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/at.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/DET_444.gif

January 14th, 2006
7:30 PM
TV: FSN Detroit
Radio: WDFN-AM 1130

~~~Probable Starters~~~

http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/chauncey_billups.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/richard_hamilton.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/tayshaun_prince.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/rasheed_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/ben_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/flip_saunders.jpg

VS

http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/bobcats/raymond_felton.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/bobcats/keith_bogans.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/bobcats/gerald_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/bobcats/bernard_robinson.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/bobcats/primoz_brezec.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/bobcats/bernie_bickerstaff.jpg

http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/cha11406-1.png
http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/cha11406-2.png
http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/cha11406-3.png

Comments on this game?
~~~

Its kind of hard to get up for this game even as a fan there is not much excitment surrounding this game. The Pistons just have to come out and take care of business and get a win. There should be no let down and when you look at both teams one is coming off a high win(pistons) and the other coming of a tough lose(bobcats). Detroit should win this game and try to use the bench in a game like this the starters have come back down a little. Pistons should win perdicting a 106-91:P

Its kind of hard to get up for this game even as a fan there is not much excitment surrounding this game. The Pistons just have to come out and take care of business and get a win. There should be no let down and when you look at both teams one is coming off a high win(pistons) and the other coming of a tough lose(bobcats). Detroit should win this game and try to use the bench in a game like this the starters have come back down a little. Pistons should win perdicting a 106-91:P

Nice call vthomp. Using the bench extensively in this game is a great way to maintain the intensity level against one of the weakest teams in the league. Being without Okafor makes this even more lopsided.

Put guys in there that are hungry for minutes. Don't bring them all in together, but mix them in with the starters throughout the game. Guys like Darko, Maxiell, Acker, Delfino, Evans, Arroyo. I can't think of a better game to get the deep bench guys some burn. Heck, even throw DD in there for a few minutes.

**Stats and lineups updated**

A couple of notes. Charlotte lost a heartbreaker against Milwaukee last night, 103-102. Brevin Knight did not play due to back spasms. Okafor and Kareem Rush appear to be out as well. Keith Bogans, Raymond Felton and Bernard Robinson are likely starters for tonight.

Last night against Milwaukee, Gerald Wallace had 21 points, 15 rebounds and 8 steals. His matchup with Tayshaun is probably the key to victory. Positionally, no one else on the Charlotte roster can hang with Detroit.

Prince should have the edge with a day's rest, and Wallace coming off of a 42 minute performance.

Charlotte is one of the best teams at forcing turnovers. Over the last 10 games, the Bobcats have averaged just over 10 steals per game. In those same 10 games, they lead the NBA in turnover differential, forcing 5+ more turns per night than they committ.

Another area Charlotte excels is shot blocking. They are ranked near the upper middle of the pack with Detroit and San Antonio immediately behind them. Again this is based on the last 10 games.

Detroit's keys to victory are

Make shots
Shut down Gerald Wallace
Limit turnovers and prevent fast break scoring for the BobcatsCan you believe I actually researched this game? :ohwell:

As a side note; watch how many minutes Carlos Arroyo plays and how effective he is. The trade subplot hangs over his head with Hunter's return on Monday.

next 5 games are easy, the pistons just can't think they can cuise though. home against charlotte, and boston. then at atlanta, and new york. then back home at an injured rockets team. the knicks have won 6 in a row though.

I know I am a little bias but GW is been on a DPOY type tear with 11.0 rebounds 4.0 steals and 3.4 blocks over the last 5 games. It really goes back further then that. I just hope he missed his ride to the game. However, thats all they have had of late.

The trade subplot hangs over his head with Hunter's return on Monday.

I wouldn't expect Hunter back that soon. He was recently TV interviewed in Detroit and said hopefully a couple weeks.

As a side note; watch how many minutes Carlos Arroyo plays and how effective he is. The trade subplot hangs over his head with Hunter's return on Monday.

CA picked a really bad time to pick-up a suspension.

January has a very friendly schedule now that the Spurs game is over but hopfully we won't slack off just because these teams aren't of a high quailty.

don't worry, the pistons don't lose when i attend the games, and i'm going tonight. so sit back and relax and enjoy the game :)

**Stats and lineups updated**

A couple of notes. Charlotte lost a heartbreaker against Milwaukee last night, 103-102. Brevin Knight did not play due to back spasms. Okafor and Kareem Rush appear to be out as well. Keith Bogans, Raymond Felton and Bernard Robinson are likely starters for tonight.

Last night against Milwaukee, Gerald Wallace had 21 points, 15 rebounds and 8 steals. His matchup with Tayshaun is probably the key to victory. Positionally, no one else on the Charlotte roster can hang with Detroit.

Prince should have the edge with a day's rest, and Wallace coming off of a 42 minute performance.

Charlotte is one of the best teams at forcing turnovers. Over the last 10 games, the Bobcats have averaged just over 10 steals per game. In those same 10 games, they lead the NBA in turnover differential, forcing 5+ more turns per night than they committ.

Another area Charlotte excels is shot blocking. They are ranked near the upper middle of the pack with Detroit and San Antonio immediately behind them. Again this is based on the last 10 games.

Detroit's keys to victory are

Make shots
Shut down Gerald Wallace
Limit turnovers and prevent fast break scoring for the BobcatsCan you believe I actually researched this game? :ohwell:

As a side note; watch how many minutes Carlos Arroyo plays and how effective he is. The trade subplot hangs over his head with Hunter's return on Monday.

However, it will be at least two weeks before Hunter returns. (I believe I just heard this in the last Flip interview at mlive.com) The announcers keep saying his return is imminent, but thats just hype. Last I heard Hunter tweaked his ankle a tad a few days back. Nothing major, but even before this Flip had called reports of Hunter's return this week highly doubtful. Last thing Hunter had to say about it, just a week ago, is that he still did not have full range of motion in the ankle. So basically, don't hold your breath. Besides, for our Championship, Hunter was only activated for the last 3rd of a season. That worked then, and he is even older now. The shorter the span he plays, the fresher he will be for the playoff run.

However, it will be at least two weeks before Hunter returns. (I believe I just heard this in the last Flip interview at mlive.com) The announcers keep saying his return is imminent, but thats just hype. Last I heard Hunter tweaked his ankle a tad a few days back. Nothing major, but even before this Flip had called reports of Hunter's return this week highly doubtful. Last thing Hunter had to say about it, just a week ago, is that he still did not have full range of motion in the ankle. So basically, don't hold your breath. Besides, for our Championship, Hunter was only activated for the last 3rd of a season. That worked then, and he is even older now. The shorter the span he plays, the fresher he will be for the playoff run.

Yup, I agree. I don't mind if he sits out all but the last 3 or 4 weeks of the regular season. Keep him as fresh as possible, but with enough time to play his way back into game shape and get comfortable with the guys again. A vet like Hunter doesn't need the regular season minutes as much as our young guys do.

i went out AND DID IT!!!!! I got NBA league pass and because i work for TWCable I get it for half price!!!WOOOOOOOOOOOO!! So my gift to my bruddahs and sistas is to record every game and not miss one either...When our starters miss a game, THEN I'll miss agame!!!My Bruddah!!

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60-43. beating them in every category (i don't know about points in the paint though). darko got some time and had a nice dish. if the bigs stay in foul trouble let's ee what he can do. i think flip will play him any way. i hope he makes use of it. pistons have not turned the ball over, charlotte creates a lot. ben has been great.

I see that the Human Victroy Cigar has played. This one is obviously in the bag for the Pistons or should I say humidor. LOL

Pretty amazing when you think about it. They are 6 consecutive wins behind the Tigers 35-5 start in '84. Didn't see the game, but the Bobcats had to really have missed Okafor tonight.

what's the trade rumor about with arroyo?

The Pistons got a decent lead early, but just could never put this team away until the 4th quarter. Lots of fun to watch this one, as we got to see some action from Darko, non-garbage time, for the first time in a long time. And man, did Darko ever do some nice ball handling. It should have been 4 assists if Davis would have expected that pass. Darn, that was a nice pass. On defense, Darko got beat by Brezec once. So what. Give me that a few more times and I bet Darko is stuffing his shots. Darko sorely needs experience, experience he can only get from playing in the game. But funny though, Darko's offensive game sure looked sharp tonight, contradicting this observation. To clarify, you can practice offense in practice somewhat, as you know where your teammates are going to go. But defense? You don't know what the other team is going to do, and then how your teammates are going to react to what they do. Great to see some minutes for Darko to gain the experience he so much needs.

Evans had a fine game. Quite a few rebounds. On a "found" ball situation, Evans calmly banked one in off the glass. Ben connected with him for an assist inside. He hit a triple. Thankyou very much, giving Arroyo yet another assist. He was also involved in a couple of fast breaks that went well for us. And he made a quick pass into the corner to Rip for that triple. The only drawback I can see to all this, its the third great game he has had in a long stretch, where each time its against a cellar dwellar. Hopefully, some of what he did tonight will translate into better performances when we face the Dallas's of this league.

Carlos Arroyo ran our offensive very smoothly. Lots of assists. No turns. Some offense from him to, with a cut inside, and making his free throws. Dyess hit some shots. Still that crazy pattern though, the more open he is, the more likely he is to miss the shot. Maybe hypno-therapy is needed. I don't know. Dyess would be totally awesome right now if he could just mange to hit the easy ones. The fantastic fade-a-ways he gots down just fine.

Delfino made a lot of difference, getting some steals and helping with the ball handling. But he only played in the rotation for the 1st half, and then in garbage time. Lets talk about garbage time. Two things that might surprise some people. One, Delfino played as the point guard, and did very, very well. We scored time after time. And the 2nd, Jason Maxiell was playing at small forward, and of course, completely dominating things out there. If only he could hit his free throws. Got to be a mental thing again, as he generally hits every other one. He has a great midrange game, no way he should be missing his free throws. He was all over the boards. Defensively, he looked just fine. Plenty of speed, and similar to Ben Wallace, those inspector gadget arms for bothering his man's dribble.

Dale Davis got into the game. Got some rebounds. Defended just fine. Hit one free throw, giving him 2 points for the year now. He played the end of the 1st half, and the end of garbage time.

Nothing any different really from Sheed, Ben, Rip, or CB. Rip hitting his shots. And note, two of them from feeds from Arroyo off curls. One pass was pretty incredible, zipped hard and right on the money.

The biggest story at the moment among the starters remains Tay establishing his outside shot. Tay hit several tonight.

We got a ton of assists. Can't wait to see the boxscore on that. I know we were on a pace for over 30 early though.

Charlotte enjoyed some pretty darn steady shooting tonight, or this game would have been a total laugher. We got to see Alan Anderson play a bit and make a shot or two, and Bernard Robinson made some impressive plays around the basket.

Charlotte was undermanned, and basically started 4 guards and Brezec. Kind of amazing they hung in there, but they used their quickness to get open on the outside, and like I said, they were hitting their shots. Still, this was no measuring stick for us or anything. Just an expected win. And yet stil, it was great to see us take the game very seriously, share the ball so well. And it was absolutely fantastic to welcome Darko back. I liked seeing Dale Davis getting some burn too.

Dyess was in early foul trouble, helping Flip make the decision to go to Darko and Dale in this game. Plus Ben had a scare, staining his knee after getting pushed and fouling down funny. No foul called. Clean it up Mr. Stern. There has got to be enough money to get more refs out there or something. Maybe a main ref in the booth who can hit a button, stopping play here and there for review. Clean it up before someone gets hurt.

Well, thats all I can think of for the moment. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Could almost make a case for Evans as player of the game. Although I would have preferred to see him dribble the clock down instead of stuffing it after the steal with 7 sec's left Those last 2 points gave him a new career high of 18 points. Previous high was 17 points. . Evans also came within 1 of his career high in offensive rebounds with 3.

Great to see the Pistons getting back their rebounding edge as 2nd chance points make the whole game so much easier. Ben Wallace has been leading the league in the month of Jan with 5.4 offensive boards a game. Team has regained a positive rebouding differerential in both total boards and offensive boards. Prior to this game it was +0.4 in total rebounds and +0.3 offensivly.

Is it just me or did Darko seem to play a lot smarter this game? And he did not slack off in garbage time. I hope getting Darko and Davis some mins is going to stick but it was most likely due to early foul trouble on Dyess and the Ben Wallace hard fall.

Nice win though. Team put away a team that they should have.

The only drawback I can see to all this, its the third great game he has had in a long stretch, where each time its against a cellar dwellar. Hopefully, some of what he did tonight will translate into better performances when we face the Dallas's of this league.

Glad I don't have to read thru your entire re-caps to find the inevitable Mo bash (after 19 mins and 18 points no less).

Lee...you're a smart guy...but you lose credibility when your bias' domineer the rest of what you have to say.

Mo's not my favorite either (obvious since I've said I wouldn't mind trading him), but how about laying off beating up a 'playing' Piston day-in-and-day-out.

BTW...I agree with your assessment of Dallas, but not with you preemptively laying Evan's out as a pseudo reason for Piston failure against such teams.

Evans had a fine game. Quite a few rebounds. On a "found" ball situation, Evans calmly banked one in off the glass. Ben connected with him for an assist inside. He hit a triple. Thankyou very much, giving Arroyo yet another assist. He was also involved in a couple of fast breaks that went well for us. And he made a quick pass into the corner to Rip for that triple. The only drawback I can see to all this, its the third great game he has had in a long stretch, where each time its against a cellar dwellar. Hopefully, some of what he did tonight will translate into better performances when we face the Dallas's of this league.

The difference is that he gets less minutes against top level teams. He also gets a lot less touches in those minutes. Seems like the bench only gets a lot of shots when we are up 15 points or so. No matter who is on the floor. If we're in a close one, the starters (and Dice) on the floor usually take about 90% of the shots. If we're up 10-15, the starters are much more willing to get guys like Mo Evans and Delfino a couple shots. That's why Mo has big games against bad teams. Because we usually have a nice lead.

And today proved why Flip likes Mo Evans over Delfino. He didn't run a single play for him all game and he still scored 18 points. He is the garbage bucket king. All of his points were in transition, off offensive rebounds, off loose balls, or off defensive lapses that leave him wide open from the perimeter.

Arroyo did have one turn, to 8 assists. Between his points and points off his assists, thats 23 points generated in his 12 minutes out there. To put that into perspective, if he played 48 minutes like this, that would be 92 points generated. That is an incredible amount of offense being generated with just one mistake. (To be clear, thats 92 points generated from on guy. The score would be far greater than that cause surely there would also be points generated not involving him too.)

Wow, 35 assists. Just 12 turns. Take away the garbage time, and you got yet another 10 turn or fewer game. Just amazing. And of course, we slaughtered them on the boards pretty well 40 to 28. They were way undersized.

The difference is that he gets less minutes against top level teams. He also gets a lot less touches in those minutes. Seems like the bench only gets a lot of shots when we are up 15 points or so. No matter who is on the floor. If we're in a close one, the starters (and Dice) on the floor usually take about 90% of the shots. If we're up 10-15, the starters are much more willing to get guys like Mo Evans and Delfino a couple shots. That's why Mo has big games against bad teams. Because we usually have a nice lead.

And today proved why Flip likes Mo Evans over Delfino. He didn't run a single play for him all game and he still scored 18 points. He is the garbage bucket king. All of his points were in transition, off offensive rebounds, off loose balls, or off defensive lapses that leave him wide open from the perimeter.

Sorry, I got to point out this faulty observation. Evans was getting even more minutes early in the season than he got tonight. He was not getting it done, and his minutes got dropped. We still are waiting to see Evans doing really well defensively in a game. Tonight, there was simply no challenge for anyone really. Maybe Tay had to worry a bit about defense and that was it. Lets keep an eye on this. Gilbert Arenas remains the only top scorer in this league we have found that Evans matches up well with. And we still got to see Evans go off for a big scoring night against one of the top teams where good strong defense is played.

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Sorry, I got to point out this faulty observation. Evans was getting even more minutes early in the season than he got tonight. He was not getting it done, and his minutes got dropped.
You must have skipped over half of my post. The reason his minutes dropped is because we got in closer games, and because Delfino started playing well. And when we get in closer games, the bench doesn't get a whole lot of touches even if they are on the floor.

I'm bummed that Darko didn't score after looking at the box. He DID have 3 assists and the touch-pass was flat-out beautiful.

You must have skipped over half of my post. The reason his minutes dropped is because we got in closer games, and because Delfino started playing well. And when we get in closer games, the bench doesn't get a whole lot of touches even if they are on the floor.

I hate to have to say this, but those games were close often due to poor play by Evans. Man, the guy played his way out of minutes, plain and simple. But look, no need to argue this too much. Lots of games to go. Lets see if Evans starts shining in the big games.

well with a lot of the next game against weeak teams we shoul see a lot of bench play. darko gave us some nice passes. 35 assists is crazy, and it was on 42 makes.

although it didn't seem like it, this was an important game for our bench. flip gave every player some extended minutes, and every player played well and did things that showed why they can contribute to the team. our bench gained confidence in themselves, and hopefully flip gained confidence in them.

- darko still showed he is raw, and i won't blame him for the turnover pass when he was wide open to shoot, since it shows he's not just thinking of himself...but the one-handed mid-air pass was beautiful. you can tell he has some skill, but no experience.

- delfino entered the game and got 2 steals within 30 seconds. he didn't get much time in the game but played well

- davis showed that we can give the big men more rest and not lose anything by having him in the game, although i'm not sure how good of an idea it was to have both him and ben in simultaneously for offensive purposes :)

- arroyo...did he hear flip's comments about giving tay time at point or what? 8 assists and 2 boards in 12 minutes? nice

- maxiel is a beast. a steal and 2 boards in 4 minutes is nice, but the real story was getting to the line 4 times in 2 minutes. you can't get any more aggressive than that...just too bad he missed 5 of 8.

- evans played phenomenal, and it was great because the starters were getting him more involved (giving him the 3rd pass on the fast break instead of taking it themselves). that guy can flat out JUMP, and his 3 offensive boards were amazing in that they were boards we'd normally just concede to the opponent, but instead we get 3 extra (and demoralizing) possessions out of them. i was waiting to see his dunk on sportscenter but unfortunately they never showed it...iamme plays of the week maybe? :0

-mcdyess 7-9 shooting, 4 boards 2 steals, 2 blocks. 'nuff said.

the starters were pretty lax on defense, but against the JV squad charlotte put out there it didn't matter. 7 players in double figures, 16 from dice and 18 from evans. 44 bench points. stellar. with a bunch of games against crap teams coming up, if the bench can continue to play like this, it will really benefit us down the road.

You must have skipped over half of my post. The reason his minutes dropped is because we got in closer games, and because Delfino started playing well. And when we get in closer games, the bench doesn't get a whole lot of touches even if they are on the floor.

Casual Observation: Bench minutes seem to go according to how well they play right out the chute. Play well right away they keep going. Mess up and lose ground to the opposition and they are out before long.

although it didn't seem like it, this was an important game for our bench. flip gave every player some extended minutes, and every player played well and did things that showed why they can contribute to the team. our bench gained confidence in themselves, and hopefully flip gained confidence in them.

- darko still showed he is raw, and i won't blame him for the turnover pass when he was wide open to shoot, since it shows he's not just thinking of himself...but the one-handed mid-air pass was beautiful. you can tell he has some skill, but no experience.

- delfino entered the game and got 2 steals within 30 seconds. he didn't get much time in the game but played well

- davis showed that we can give the big men more rest and not lose anything by having him in the game, although i'm not sure how good of an idea it was to have both him and ben in simultaneously for offensive purposes :)

- arroyo...did he hear flip's comments about giving tay time at point or what? 8 assists and 2 boards in 12 minutes? nice

- maxiel is a beast. a steal and 2 boards in 4 minutes is nice, but the real story was getting to the line 4 times in 2 minutes. you can't get any more aggressive than that...just too bad he missed 5 of 8.

- evans played phenomenal, and it was great because the starters were getting him more involved (giving him the 3rd pass on the fast break instead of taking it themselves). that guy can flat out JUMP, and his 3 offensive boards were amazing in that they were boards we'd normally just concede to the opponent, but instead we get 3 extra (and demoralizing) possessions out of them. i was waiting to see his dunk on sportscenter but unfortunately they never showed it...iamme plays of the week maybe? :0

-mcdyess 7-9 shooting, 4 boards 2 steals, 2 blocks. 'nuff said.

the starters were pretty lax on defense, but against the JV squad charlotte put out there it didn't matter. 7 players in double figures, 16 from dice and 18 from evans. 44 bench points. stellar. with a bunch of games against crap teams coming up, if the bench can continue to play like this, it will really benefit us down the road.

I agree, every game against lesser teams are key for the bench. They don't have to become superstars. If by the end of the season they are able as a group, at home, to play even with playoff calibur opponents, we will be good to go. Our starters are warriors, able to weather the storm with long minutes on the road.

I hate to have to say this, but those games were close often due to poor play by Evans.
:confused: No, it's because they're better teams. Not sure how Mo has an effect on the game before he comes in, but I'm sure you'll come up with a way to prove it using some mathmatical formula.

And overall, I can't see how he "played himself out of those minutes". I assume you mean offensively, because his defense has been consistantly mediocre since day 1. The problem is he doesn't get plays run for him. He has to get points in transition or off offensive rebounds. He rarely gets shots outside of those things. So when we aren't getting in transition or getting offensive rebounding opportunities he isn't going to be putting up points. It's not like he is bricking a ton of shots. The guy shoots over 47% from the field. He just doesn't get enough shots. His defense isn't great, so if he isn't getting shots he isn't going to be helping a whole lot (other than rebounding).