Being a Toronto-native, I have to have SOME hometeam love :tape:.

So what do you guys think of the Raptors and the situation their in? The new GM Rob Babcock is a complete and udder moron IMO but I feel for his situation.

Players don't want to come to Toronto because it's:

1. In Canada (which is a lovely place if people only gave it a chance)
2. Taxes are higher here than in the States.
3. Not America (where people have lots of pride and would rather play in the States)

Toronto is a beautiful city with a lot of things to do; however, the common misconception is that its a boring place. It stops lots of high profile players from even wanting to come and stops draftee players from wanting to be drafted (i.e rumour was Gerald Green refused to come to Toronto).

So that leaves Babcock with little options on who he can draft cause he doesn't want to get players that won't try; but then he'll go and draft players like Rafael Araujo and Charlie Villaneuva 50 spots ahead of what they should be drafted :frusty: .

Its a lose-lose situation. Basketball is huge here and I'd hate to see it die.

What would you guys do/have done in Toronto's past to improve it from being a lottery team every year?

Hey whats up Rdang, nice to see you posting. I think one of the problems is the teams franchise value, according to Forbes Magazine (December 2004), their ranked 14th in the league at $297 million.

In the December 2003 Forbes edition they were worth $217 Million, or 19th overall. So the owners saw their equity increase by $80 million while putting a less than average product on the floor. They have no real financial incentive to improve the team. It's a biz and they're making big bucks by lying shoddy goods on the paying fans.

Rob Babcock the GM made the worst move in the history of the Raptors when he traded away Carter for Eric and Aaronn Williams. Then the drafting of Villanueva when you already have the promising Bosh made no sense at all. Stretching out Bonners deal really makes you wonder what these guys are up to, unless it's all about "da pick boss da pick".

Are they tanking the franchise w/l record for the chance at next years #1? They're stockpiling picks which is no secret. They don't stand a chance at making the playoffs, Vegas has them at 8000000 to 1 (okay it's 80-1). They can tank the w/l column and still strike gold if they get the pick and do it all while making money at the turnstiles.

I think it won't be long for everyones pining for the good old days of Glenn Grunwald. The Rapts payroll this season is an astounding +$53mil. Yet they'll be lucky to post 28 wins. Here's a kicker, next season their payroll drops to 44 mil, but the year after 07/08 know how much they have on the books? 11.4 mil, then 4.9 and 5.2. This franchise is set to load up or get shipped out (if they put it on the market).

I think you're in the crosshairs of yesterday and tomorrow all at once. Ya gotta keep the faith for another 18 months and then you'll either see a master plan unfold or a franchise unravel. But I think it's the first of the two.

I've never been a Raptor's fan, but I've always been a Carter hater. Shipping his apathetic, fragile butt out of town was the best thing they could have done.

Bring back JYD!!

Carter - don't get me started on him :mad2:.

But that was what I was used to when it came to Toronto and basketball. Winning and success and that was what Carter gave the franchise for a couple years. Grunfield did a decent job (but he also screwed up a lot too). So when it comes to 'rebuilding a team' like they are, I guess it's just a little shaky for me to have faith in an organization that's drafting players like Villaneuva with Bosh there.

I guess the money situation is a good thing, if the stats are true then maybe there is hope. But we gotta resign Bosh soon and he's gonna come at a high price (thats if he even wants to stay). I like Bosh because he's a great athlete and a tremendous competitor (I sound like one of the announcers on the Raptors broadcast right now) but I remember seeing a game where the raps were losing and he started tearing up on the bench.

He hates to lose and he's getting better (they compare him to a young Garnett and I believe it); but by not showing him dedication by putting together a team around him (i.e not drafting someone that already plays his position), it's just gonna push him out and the Raptors can't afford to do that.

Money has never been an issue because Toronto is hockey central. Picture New York in basketball and thats the type of money Toronto makes (okay I'm overexaggerating a bit). But its definately enough to keep the Raptors in town (same ownership). So by having a profit and still losing its not gonna help the image any better and become more attractive to big free agents and upcoming superstars on the draft.

I think that if we brought in Dr. J (when Carter wanted him) it would've helped the image of the company drastically. He would've been a positive public image for the city of Toronto and it would've led to good things. They could've had their Rob Babcock (as moronic as he is) being sort of a puppet master if he really wanted to. Just having Dr. J as the messenger of what the franchise wanted in the end.

It sucks though, because even if Toronto does get #1 draft pick choice next year (which is a REAL possibility with the talent Atlanta has now) I got a feeling they're just gonna blow the draft pick again on another dudd. Like I said, its a lose-lose situation. We get a good draft pick and end up wasting it cause no one wants to come (makes the whole Joe Johnson max out contract make more sense now eh?)

At the risk of making this thread even more Canuck focused, can anyone stand the Raptors announcers?

I swear, I would rather have a hornet crawling inside each ear rather than listen to Chuck Swirsky call a game. He's like a fast talking John Madden. Terribly annoying.

At the risk of making this thread even more Canuck focused, can anyone stand the Raptors announcers?

I swear, I would rather have a hornet crawling inside each ear rather than listen to Chuck Swirsky call a game. He's like a fast talking John Madden. Terribly annoying.
That guy is the NBA version of Richard Vitale. Annoying personified.

Ahahaha, I guess I should have said Mr. Vitale. His first name is to vulgar to print.

My last post was edited for content!

I want to be clear that I was referring to Toronto getting ripped off in the Vinsanity deal. They gave the cat away for a song. I think he had to go, I just don't think the club was using any braincells when they sent him to Joisy for peanuts.

Carter's admission that he was doggin it as a Raptors while his teammates were giving it their all said alot about the guy. Surely there are a ton of players out there that dog it at times. But you don't go public on it. You don't go public right after you got traded, especially when the team trading you just got hosed down like ignorant schoolboys.

Check this from 1/7/05, "By his own admission, Vince Carter didn't play to his full potential with the Toronto Raptors."

In a televised interview with TNT NBA analyst John Thompson on Thursday, the New Jersey Nets guard admitted that he did not push himself as hard as he should have in Toronto.

"In years past, no," he said.

"I was fortunate to have the talent...you get spoiled when you're able to do a lot of things. You see that you don't have to work at it. Now, with the all the injuries, I have to work harder; I'm a little hungrier. Getting a fresh start has made me want to attack the basket."

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=110409&hubname=nba (http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=110409&hubname=nba)

But you know the NBA can't let that ruin all that "Vinsanity" marketing. IN July he'd been re-habbed enough to be presented with the NBA's Community Assist Award. If you're a Raptor fan, that has to fry your eggs!

"NEW YORK, Aug. 17, 2005 - In recognition of Vince Carter's community outreach efforts and on-going generosity during the Summer of Goodwill, the NBA announced today it will honor the New Jersey Nets forward with the Community Assist Award for July." :mad2:

http://www.nba.com/news/carter_community_award.html (http://www.nba.com/news/carter_community_award.html)

Vince Carter is slime. He could want to come to Detroit for free, and I would say "hell no".

Micro. But you know the NBA has a lot of money and time invested in this guy. And it doesn't hurt that Sterns buddy Rod Thorn ended up with the goods. The east coast was ripe for some "happening ball", the Knicks just weren't gettin it done. It's all about "da green".

Oh yes, G-man, I know it's about the green. My green. The Green I spend every year for RAPTORS NBATV.

I'm happy the league made a move to better their East Coast situation. I just don't want to watch a guy turn it on after spending 2 years dismantling the only team that reps my country in the L.

I'm no Raptors fan, but I do like the idea of Canadian franchises. 2 years ago, Carter walked on water in T.O. He pissed that all way. Now he's the target of the boo-birds. The greatest player, oops I mean traitor, in franchise history.

I found this letter to the Raptors fans from your very own Pete Babcock. It's basically a "State of the Union" address. Maybe it'll make you feel just a wee bit better..

"Dear Fans,

As we wrap up a busy offseason for the Raptors, I thought I'd take a moment to
touch base with you and the rest of the Raptors Insiders and let you know how
things went this summer from my perspective.

We had a promising summer league season, playing in both Los Angeles and
Minnesota. Though our two first round picks, Charlie Villanueva and Joey Graham
suffered minor injuries, they both showed great skills and potential.


They are rookies and will go through the development curve, but they bring great
potential to our club and they are both outstanding young men. The coaches had
our summer players playing defence and team basketball. The guys were fun to
watch perform and more fun to be around.

Both Chris Bosh and Loren Woods joined the team in LA and you could feel the
passion growing with this young team. The young Raptors, led by Bosh, are ready
to step up and be counted.

A few weeks ago, we gave an offer sheet to Chris Duhon of the Chicago Bulls.
Chris was a restricted free agent, which meant the Bulls had seven days to match
the offer or let him go. We felt that there was an outside chance that they
would not match because they still had to re-sign Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry and
Jannero Pargo and there were several "amnesty players" available.

The Bulls did match our offer, but we were able to move on and re-sign Matt
Bonner. Matt has been a priority since the start and it was tough to make the
choice of Duhon over Matt, but we knew that whichever way it went, we were going
to have a good young player for our team. Matt represents the type of character
that we are building around for our future.

Pape Sow, who we re-signed earlier, and Jose Calderon who we signed from Spain
are two more young players that represent all the good things you want from a
player in team athletics.

We may have some growing pains, but we are all very excited about the quality of
talent and character of these young players.

A lot of people ask me what keeps us busy in August and September. When I first
joined the league, these two months were our down time. Now there is really no
such thing as down time in the NBA. This summer has been especially busy with
the pushed back times, due to the new Collective Bargaining Agreement, and the
addition of "amnesty players". I've mentioned this twice so far, so I should
explain what an "amnesty player" is.

The league initiated this "one time" rule for the new CBA. A team could waive a
player and have his salary come off of the "luxury tax" computation. The team
would still pay his salary, but would not have to pay tax on that salary. If a
team is over the "luxury tax", the tax is at least one dollar per dollar over
the tax line. If a team was $20 million over the cap and waived a player making
$10 million a year for three more years, then the team could save at least $30
million in taxes.

This is just a one-time deal, but it added 18 more players to the free agent
market that were unexpected. This has caused a ripple effect and pushed back
signings by about two weeks and made this time of year even busier.

I am currently in Minnesota and yesterday was a typical "down time" day.

I talked with five teams about potential trades (I stress potential), I talked
with eight agents who have players that are interested in being our "third point
guard", I talked with Steve Fruitman (Director of Basketball Finance) at least
five times about player contracts. I talked with Jacquie Allinson (my
administrative assistant) about work permits and a community project. I talked
with Jim LaBumbard (Director of Media Relations) about some interview requests,
I talked with Scott Howard (Director of International Player Personnel) who is
scouting in the Dominican Republic, I talked with my brother Pete (Director of
NBA Personnel) about free agent point guards (and about that album of mine he
has had since 1968!!). I talked with Sam Mitchell about training camp and point
guards, and with Wayne Embry (Advisor to the President) about point guards.

That was my "vacation day". Our coaches and trainers are traveling a few days a
week to work out players and scouts are watching tape on free agents and draft
prospects for next year.

None of us would think of complaining because this is basketball and we love it.
This is our life and it is one of those careers that isn't a job, it's part of
you and part of your family. Like all jobs, it can be tiring, stressful and
frustrating at times, but we have a great staff and they all believe in our
philosophy - play hard, play team ball, support each other both on and off the
court, get involved with the community, and do things the right way.

At some point every team goes through its share of losing and tough times, but
we are committed to this team and doing things the right way. When you are
surrounded by good people who believe in a common cause and work together, good
things are going to happen. It will take time, but it will happen.

I look forward to seeing you at games and being a part of the development of
this team. "

Thank you "Wild Bill" Babcock

(Okay I added the Wild Bill part) :eyebrows:

Doesn't really make me feel better. I know Rob's a good guy and he's working hard.

It's an argument I get into with Stones fans regularly. There are 30 teams working to be #1. It's a special time when you can float around the top 5 for consecutive years. Many franchises never get that close despite best intentions and great efforts.

At the risk of making this thread even more Canuck focused, can anyone stand the Raptors announcers?

I swear, I would rather have a hornet crawling inside each ear rather than listen to Chuck Swirsky call a game. He's like a fast talking John Madden. Terribly annoying.

I can't stand the announcers. And when they do comparisons with hockey to what happens in the basketball games it drives me nuts. It's like watching an american broadcaster talk about baseball in a hockey game.

We've got no chance

Babcock: Raps won't be good
By STEVE BUFFERY (steve.buffery@tor.sunpub.com) -- Toronto Sun

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/Toronto/2005/09/07/babcock_rob250.jpg
Toronto GM Rob Babcock sees plenty of struggles this season for the Raptors.
(Toronto Sun File Photo/David Lucas)

Raptors fans may be shocked to learn that Rob Babcock does not see his team improving this season.

At least in terms of its won-loss record.

In a frank and rather stunning assessment, the Raptors general manager told the Toronto Sun yesterday he does not expect his club to improve on its 33-49 record from last season, given the influx of young players on the roster.

If that turns out to be the case, it's likely the club will miss the playoffs for the fourth consecutive season and Raptors fans will no doubt be howling for Babcock's head on a platter.

But the second-year GM wasn't about to sugar-coat his thoughts on this year's squad, which will gather on Oct. 4 at Brock University in St. Catharines for training camp.

"There will be growing pains, no doubt about it," Babcock said. "Whether we win or lose more games than last year, I think if you look at us on paper, we probably will not win as many games as last year.

"We more or less have the same team back with the exception of Donyell Marshall, who was an integral part of our team last year. We're replacing him with rookies."

Marshall, who averaged 11.5 points and 6.6 rebounds off the bench last season, became a free agent and signed a four-year deal with the Cleveland Cavaliers. The Raptors hope that first-round draft picks Charlie Villanueva and Joey Graham will pick up the slack, but Babcock understands that it will take time for the rookies to establish themselves as solid NBA players.

"We still have a long way to go, but we have the guys here now who see what the plan is, and they understand it," Babcock said. "They realize that there's no cutting corners, that it's going to be a lot of hard work, learning to play as a team, doing things the right way ... Our guys are starting to get that and things are turning around."

Babcock is optimistic that his rookies, Villanueva and Graham, together with young standouts Chris Bosh, Matt Bonner and Pape Sow, eventually will merge to become a championship-calibre team. In the meantime, his most important job with training camp less than a month away is to find a competent point guard to back up Rafer Alston and NBA rookie Jose Calderon -- either via free agency or a trade. Babcock said that he is talking with several teams about a possible trade. He waved aside rumours of a possible trade with Minnesota involving veteran Jalen Rose.

Babcock: Raps won't be good

Wow. That is surprising, and quite funny, that he came out and said it in public like that. But the man was just speaking the truth. They're not going to be any better then they were last year. Heck, with so many teams loading up in the off season, in the East alone, the Raps probably won't reach their win total from last year.

Man, Jalen must be chompin' at the bit to get out of there. It really is a shame that they didn't release him. He would've looked sooo good coming off our bench. :ohwell:

I respect him for that. At least now we know that whatever he says will be 100% non-bull%%%% from now on. I used to think he'd sugarcoat everything; but now, I can take what he says at reliable.

Maybe he is doing his job. Its the truth? The Raptors can't expect to dramatically get better all of a sudden. They don't have Don Juan abilities in attracting new clients. They're stuck the way they are until another rookie decides to come and save the organization (Carter, or example of Lebron in Cleveland).

I think maybe they even gave up on Bosh. Picture drafting Villaneuva as kinda like a media symbol that they don't think Bosh can live up to the hype, the kid's good (and I believe so) but maybe they've given up. Everything Babcock does has another meaning to it...all metaphorical and stuff..

What about Mourning. I used to have respect for this guy until he didn't show up for any Toironto games.

I want to sign with the Raptors!

Well, I don't really. It's sad that Toronto is not a hot spot destination for players. Financially for the owners it's great. I not to offend the fans, but the NBA needs to played in the Continental US. I don't understand why there is a franchise in a place like Toronto, Ontario Canada, but not in say, St Louis or Las Vegas. It really makes no sense.

If we had a team in every major city, then it might be a different story. Let's work on our own economy. Move Toronto to St Louis and while you're at it David Stern, move the Clippers to Las Vegas. We don't need to teams in one city playing in the same arena...:mad2: :usa:

He's since backed off his we're gonna suck comments. Guess what Rob, its still true.

The League MVP is a Canadian. Rick Fox is a Canadian. Jamal Magloire is a Canadian. Toronto is less than an hour from the border and we produce ballers. NBA caliber ballers.

The problems in Toronto have a lot to do with mismanagement and preconceived ideas about the country. Prince (the artist formerly known as the artist formerly know as Prince) makes Toronto his regular hangout because it is a cool city.

Yeah, it's not Detroit or NY or LA. But neither is Cleveland.

(Ove999)

You can say the same thing about Detroit. The weather in winter there is almost as bad as it is in Toronto probably. T dot is a great basketball city, actually, and the fan base is insane. Its just the organization that needs the fixing.

Last Updated: Sep 17th, 2005 - 07:31:43
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Calling the Shots: Could Babcock Actually Have A Plan?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
By Alex Labidou
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Sep 17, 2005, 15:10

Over the past two seasons, everyone has had a chance to take a shot at Rob Babcock. It's hard not to make criticisms on the often timid looking Babcock on some of the worst moves ever by a GM. He drafted Rafael Araujo over Andre Iguodala, Andris Biedrins, Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, J.R. Smith, Josh Smith and Trevor Ariza. Even David Harrison would have been a better pick than Araujo and he was picked 30th. He completely ignored his Franchise player Vince Carter's demands to hire a veteran coach and get players who can contribute by signing Loren Woods and hiring Sam Mitchell. This ultimately lead to one of the worst trades in NBA history by Toronto acquiring Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, and Alonzo Mourning's contract along with two first round picks by non lottery teams (Philadelphia and New Jersey's 2006 pick). However could there be a light at the end of a very dark tunnel? This HOOPSWORLD editor thinks so.

Despite Stephen A. Smith's lambasting of Rob Babcock (some of it is well deserved) on draft night, Charlie Villanueva and Joey Graham have the chance to be good players in the NBA. While there might be chemistry issues if the Raptors decide to develop Villanueva as a power forward (since Chris Bosh plays power forward); there is a possibility that he could also be developed to play small forward (as Lamar Odom did in his earlier years). Villanueva might be undersized as power forward or center but as small forward (if he can ever stay focused on the court) could be dominating at 6'11 and 240. Everyone who comments on Villanueva states that he could be one of the league's most talented players if he can stay focused on the court. Sam Mitchell will have his work cut out for him but in the end should be able to instill that mentality to Villanueva. If that happens watch out.

Another intriguing pick is Joey Graham. While a lot of people had criticized Babcock for picking Graham over Granger and Green, there were many factors behind that decision. While Green definitely has the potential to be an All-Star, rumor had it that he didn't want to play for Toronto. After dealing with Damon Stoudamire, Vince Carter and Antonio Davis all asking out of Toronto, Babcock didn't want to take a chance on a player who could be a chemistry issue in the locker room. As for Granger, while Granger definitely was amazing player for New Mexico last season; his chronic injury problems scared away a lot of teams. He's had knee problems before and these issues materialized when he was pulled out of summer league competition. When all those factors were placed into consideration, Babcock didn't want to take a risk on a player who might be injury prone (and remind fans of several years of Vince Carter's various injuries). Despite the fact that Graham needs to work on his ball handling skills and playmaking ability; Graham is a powerhouse bull. He finishes in the lane amazingly, rebounds well, has a consistent jump shot ranging up to 18 feet. He can defend up to three positions on the court (Shooting Guard, Small Forward, and Power Forward) and due to his massive size (he's 6'7 and 235) and strength (he can bench over 400 pounds) he has a very good post up game and doesn't get injured playing inside. A lot of people say he can be Richard Jefferson when its all said and done but it might be more fair to compare him to a more athletic Ron Artest. If that is the case, Toronto could have a very solid core of guys in Bosh, Villanueva, and Graham.

Also by drafting both Villanueva and Graham (as well as Roko Ukic), Babcock has added two intangibles to his roster. In all three draftees, each player can play multiple positions on the floor. That allows for the type of versatility that Toronto hasn't had since when Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter were both on the floor. For too many years Toronto had a multitude of players who all did the same thing on the floor (last season for example it was the 3 point shooters). Also in adding Joey Graham and Charlie Villanueva, Toronto has two guys who actually want to play in Toronto. While Toronto is a very nice city (hey its probably better than living in Utah or Milwaukee), its high tax rates and Canadian culture often turns off a lot NBA players from wanting to play there (their last big free agent acquisition was Rafer Alston). Both Graham and Villanueva before and after the draft expressed their desire to play for the Raptors and that made it a lot easier for Babcock to have confidence in them.

Lastly what people aren't talking about is Toronto's future cap space. While Toronto will have to deal with two seasons of being over the cap; their payroll in 2007 (without resigning anyone) will be 11 million dollars. Assuming they pick up the options on both Graham and Villanueva (which they will) and Bosh resigns for the maximum contract, their payroll will be roughly 20-25 million dollars. While it will be difficult to sign a big name free agent, Toronto will have the flexibility to sign players who will fit their young core of players. If Toronto fans can stay interested after five years of a lot of growing pains, this team can be a playoff contender by the 2007/2008 season. All Babcock has to do (besides not giving up on his team before the season starts) is keeping on moving disgruntled players (i.e. Rafer Alston) for players who want to be there (i.e. Matt Bonner) and the wins will follow. Sam Mitchell will make sure of that.

The Raptors are looking to pick up a third point guard and would like the Japanese guy Yuta Tabuse....but he wants to play for the Clips. So they may end up with Jay Williams...the one from Duke that got hurt on the motorcycle. http://tinyurl.com/bopo2

I's take Anthony Goldwire any day over either of these two players.

I don't know where to begin. I guess first you need leadership and it starts at the top. Fire everyone in the front office. You also need a new coach. Then once you install solid management and a good head coach then maybe you can win some games. The talent they have in Toronto right now is very weak. If your going to build around Bosh then you have to get guy's that complement him. You need a big Center for starters.

I guess I made a wrong turn somewhere. Am I on the Lions forum...I was looking for the Raptors thread.:confused:

I guess I made a wrong turn somewhere. Am I on the Lions forum...I was looking for the Raptors thread.:confused:

LOL Darth,

They need new ownership. Not a guy riding around in a Golf cart saying just have fun boys. But anyway back to the Raptors all they need is a good GM, a good coach and a big servicable Center. That is a lot but with what they have now they can't win especially in the East.

No. All the Raptors need is new ownership. Basketball ownership, not part of some Toronto sports conglomerate as they currently are via Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment (or whatever it is called).

The problem is, their ownership runs it only as a business interest to keep seats selling in the Air Canada Center. The Toronto Maple Leafs Hockey ownership is clueless about basketball and marketing.

Babcock is not a star, but his hands are so terribly tied, that if he knew how this job would go, he would never have taken it.

And I like the coach. He's tough, he's a (recent) former player so he has insight into the game and many of the veteran stars. Sam Mitchell is the right guy for a team trying to build around a young big man.

And I like the coach. He's tough, he's a (recent) former player so he has insight into the game and many of the veteran stars. Sam Mitchell is the right guy for a team trying to build around a young big man.

I will take you opinion Micro since I don't follow the Raptors that much that Sam Mitchell is the right man for the job. The only thing I have read about him that I did not like was how he handle skip to my lou or what ever the he!! they call that guy Rafer Alston.

Raptors' once-disgruntled Williams now smiling in Toronto

By 24 hours news services


Raptors malcontent Eric Williams reportedly has decided that life in Toronto is not quite so bad.

After being shipped north from New Jersey in the Vince Carter swap last season, Williams watched his game go south with the the Raptors and continually expressed his unhappiness and his desire to be traded.
It seems, however, that Williams has had a change of heart. Raptors general manager Rob Babcock said yesterday he had a positive and constructive talk with the hard-nosed forward over the summer and, in a surprising development, added that Williams wouldn't mind remaining with the Raptors.

More here (http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/Sports/2005/09/21/1228281-sun.html)

I don't know much about the inner workings of the club, but I feel like they are behind the eight ball. As rdang pointed out, players don't seem to want to go to Canada.

I've been to Toronto a few times and the last time I saw it the city and subways were clean and beautiful, although that was over 20 years ago. It didn't seem too slow paced to me, and I in fact I thought it was kind of hopping, but that's just me. Nothing wrong with Canada, IMO. Then again, I love Boise, but I doubt most NBA players would care for it.

The tax thing must be a major factor in keeping players away. Given their salaries, it must add up to an incredible amount that they lose for playing in Canada. I'm thinking hundreds of thouands or even a million+ in some cases, maybe? Those taxes are high!!!

Should the NBA compensate for those players and taxes then if it causes such a problem? I know players choose to go to states like Florida and Texas where the taxes are almost none and I think that's kind of an unfair advantage when attracting free agents.

Governments should not be a major factor in the development of a sports team. What if the NBA had a set tax rate for players on their salaries and paid out whatever the difference was for the city (in Toronto tax is 15%, not sure if its any more if you make a lot of money) and the NBA set their medium at 12%. The extra 3% could be paid for by the NBA commission and this'll help develop teams in different cities in Canada and states, adding to more profits through attendance. It'd be a win-win situation.

As for Sam Mitchell. I do like the guy, and Micro is right, the thing that needs to change is the ownership. The Leafs are criticized by their fans for not spending enough money as well. We could've easily bought a cup like Colarado and Detroit did before the lock-out but as an organization they decide rather to just keep their millions of profits and keep the team the same every year (with one or two additions).

Its smart business of course, if the fans come back then why react hastingly? But the sad fact is, smart business doesn't accumulate the wins. Self-less owners like Mark Cuban in Dallas are what the Raptors need.

I was also thinking that the NBA should compensate Canadian teams to even things up.

Unfortunately, Stern probably doesn't care. I don't see it happening.

Self-less owners like Mark Cuban in Dallas are what the Raptors need.


Exactly. I am so tired of these hot shot businessmen buying teams just for there personal kicks. They don't want to put money into them they treat them as a toy to play with once or twice a year and then put it back in the garage. A profession franchise needs attention 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. If you don't want to spend money then buying a team should not be on your to do list. Buy a Bentley and a private plane instead.

Lamond Murray just went off on Toronto recently, saying the trade for Vince was a bad business move. He said: "They just don't know basketball up there".

I never liked Lamond Murray. Especially when he came off the bench and started hoisting shots like it was no one's business. He played with no heart and did it just for a paycheck. Now I see that he's got no business sense neither. Guys like him need to be thrown out of the league.

I wish I had the link but I couldn't find it.

The best place in the schedule to practice Flip's zone? The answer might be Toronto, based on these excerpts from today's Toronto Star:

Charley Rosen, the former minor-league coach who's written a shelf of books on the game, called [Raptors coach Sam] Mitchell "unsophisticated" the other day. Yesterday's edition of Chris Young's blog on thestar.com featured the recounting of a telling anecdote of a Raptors-Nets game last season. In one sequence the Nets, Dave D'Allesandro of the Newark Star-Ledger told Young, defended Toronto with a 2-3 matchup zone.

"(Mitchell) had no zone offence in place. So he goes on the post-game and blames his players for lousy execution. Post-game was piped into the Nets' coaches' office, they hear him passing the buck and they laughed their asses off."

WOW!!!

Did anyone see Rafael Araujo's pass last night?

I can't even describe it. There is no way to do it justice. Pass of the night, maybe pass of the week.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2227871931899548807&q=raptors

What a pity that a talent such as Mo Peterson has to be wasted north of the border. Both he and Bosh are stuck on a team that the owners have no desire to build a winner. The city of Toronto is a great place. The crime rate is one of the lowest in North America. The night life is wonderful and has always reminded me of New York City only on a smaller scale. The city is one of the most deversified in the world with many races all living in their own section of town. Toronto is a great place to visit and to possibly live. So the upshot of all this is that the team needs new owners that will strive to bring a winner to this great city.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2227871931899548807&q=raptors

just now checking out the video.

It is pretty hilarious. Never seen an intro done like that before.

Great article on Hoopsworld about the Raptors.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_15640.shtml

"We starting to trust each other and we're starting to believe in one another," says guard Mike James, the team's second leading scorer with 16.6 PPG. "I think things are turning around for the better for us. We've just got to keep continuing to get a consistent effort from everyone."

Dang, you're right. The taxes and monetary systems between the to countries isn't fair. But towns like Det., Tor. and Minn. to name just a couple will always be hind tit to NY and LA. or warm weather cities. Re: Allan Houston.

HOT OFF THE PRESS!!!

Raptors fire General Manager Rob Babcock and promote Wayne Embry to Interim GM. WOW!

Boobcock is gone, enter the next Boob to run the Raps. This teams is the Lions of the NBA. They can't do anything right.

Its not as though this franchise hasn't had opporunities, with players like VC, T-Mac, Damon Stoudamire, C-Bills and now CB4. They just can't get their acts together.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_pistons/archives/2006_01.html#107430

ASBlakely contemplates the possibility of Detroit's John Hammond going to Toronto to take over the franchise.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_pistons/archives/2006_01.html#107430

ASBlakely contemplates the possibility of Detroit's John Hammond going to Toronto to take over the franchise.

Yep that was the first thing that came to mind... They already tried to get him a couple years back... I'm sure he wouldn't leave until after the year is done... he'd prolly wanna bring Darko with him:P

I just watched a replay of the presser on The Score (http://www.thescore.ca/) and Richard Peddie the President & CEO (know nothing about basketball corporate hatchetman) of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment said they would be hiring an "experienced GM".

I thought Babcock should have been fired for drafting Rafael Araujo, but this year's draft was awesome. Consider that he got his first GM job weeks before the Araujo draft.

I also like Sam Mitchell as a foundation coach.

The Raptors are doomed as long as they are tied to a hockey management team. All MLS&E cares about is booking every single night at the AC (http://www.theaircanadacentre.com/). They could care less about building a winner in Toronto or developing basketball in Canada.

This move ticks me off. Let's see who they hire. It was low to give Wayne Embry the interim job as Babcock recruited him to come to T.O. to assist with his first GM stint.

If you listen to Peddie in the presser, he was absolutely insulting of Babcock. Classless. RB on the other hand said that he did not see this coming, and was very professional and candid about the realities of sports business.

As a side note, Rob Babcock was the assistant GM to McHale in Minny. I'm sure he has ties to Flip.

All of this on the day after Mo Pete and Jose Calderon got into it on the sideline during a game. Maybe we'll get lucky and the incoming GM will clean house. There are a couple pieces on that roster who look interesting.

Here is a media report of the history and dismissal. (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/Toronto/2006/01/26/1412992-cp.html)

Well if Ronnie doesn't work out in Sactown... Petrie will be available:P

The Raptors are doomed as long as they are tied to a hockey management team. All MLS&E cares about is booking every single night at the AC (http://www.theaircanadacentre.com/). They could care less about building a winner in Toronto or developing basketball in Canada.


Agreed 100%.

Now that attendance is down, they're worried about getting the fan base back. Babcock was just a scapegoat for MLS&E's failure as a company to bring what its purpose was: to entertain.

I just hope the Raptors don't get #1 draft pick this year. Cause having Rudy Gay be their new cornerstone wouldn't work out too well for marketing. Who would wanna wear a purple jersey with "GAY" on the back?

TheStar.com - New ball cuts deeply with some NBAers (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1165359014546&call_pageid=969907729483&StarSource=RSS)
Not that the new ball can help the hapless. Witness yesterday's Raptors practice, wherein Sam Mitchell, the 43-year-old coach, beat a trio of his charges — Ford, Anthony Parker and Joey Graham — in a three-point shooting game for money, then inexplicably left the court laughing and clapping in delight. (That Mitchell was a 22.3 per cent three-point shooter as an NBAer should have been cause for a coach's teary lament.)
Is it just me, or does it seem wrong for the Head Coach to be playng shooting games with his players for money?

First time I heard anything about the ball cutting player's hands. That doesn't seem like a good thing.

Especially since Nash is a sprocket.