“In Detroit, it was horrible for me, a nightmare.”

That’s the scary sound emanating from the trembling lips of the big Serbian formerly known as a Piston big. Thank god, the nightmare's over, his words not mine. But I had a bad dream too.

My dream was full of floating decimal points and I kept seeing this ham like fist wrapping itself around wads of my cash. In my dream the room is hazy with stale cigarette smoke and I’m dressed up like a human cigar, a big tasty Macanudo. My ears are burning and faintly, ever so faintly I can hear Larry Brown’s voice, “Sit down you stupid bastard!”

Then I woke up, drenched in cheap sweat, and I remembered I’m not getting 50k a night to play professional b-ball.

It’s 2:45 in the morning. I’m sucking down my third Bavarian beer in an hour, it’s a Heineken knock-off. Looking out the window I can see my used Ford with the re-built tranny in the driveway. The remaining few hairs on my head are standing straight up at attention, each weak-kneed strand lying to me, pretending it’ll still be up there in the morning. My eyes are watery and red, real damn red. The calculator on my lap is pissing me off. It won’t give me the answer I want, the one that makes sense. I’m trying to rationalize the cost of a nightmare in today’s world.

Here’s the gist of my late night angst, back in September of 2003, Joe Dumars inked the young Darko to a four year deal worth $16,815,062. Leaving the playoff games on the cutting room floor, my calculator says Blondie suited up for 223 games as a Piston. His contract was weighted, meaning each successive year he earned more than the previous one. My late night math indicates the big mans contract for 82 regular games this season was $4,135,200 or $50,429 per game. I’m a little queasy.

Since last October he tugged those shorts over his big unmotivated ass in 59 games, he ham fisted $2,975,326. Let’s carry this spooky story a little further, over the roughly 30 months he was in Detroit, his 223 games cost the Pistons $10,436,556. He took home an average check of $46,800 after each game. That scares the hell out of me.

In my world of cheap beer and used Fords I either give it my all or someone else comes and gets it. When I took my job I sat across from one serious cat, he said “The job pays this and you got to do that.” I wanted the money, I said yes. That’s the deal. It’s a simple one. Nightmare in Detroit? At $60 grand a year it would take me 166 years to earn what they paid him before his 21st birthday. What can’t be grasped about that basic concept?

I pry the sticking Barco-loungers pleather off the bottom of my thigh and head back to the kitchen for one last beer. The big mans words, “horrible nightmare” is reverberating in my head. I’ve watched him in Orlando in the last couple games and its clear to me he sandbagged us. He ripped us off. He was pulling a Vince Carter job. He was working at not working for $50k a night.

All week on different blogs and forums I’ve been reading the apologists, “he never got the chance” and “I wish him well in Orlando.” You know what I say? I hope he chokes on one of those big Florida oranges because he’s nothing more than a dry-gulching piss ant. He stole our money. He lied to us. We paid for his “A” game and he gave us a sandbag filled with stinking cat litter. We gave him 10 million bucks and he gave us the shaft. He flat out rim rolled us. Wish him luck?

Personally, I don’t care about the damn ’03 draft. I don’t care about Carmello Anthony or Chris Bosh. I don’t care that Joe was blindsided by our less than stellar scouts or that his drafting capability rivals Anna Kournikova’s tennis career. The guy in the uniform cashing that big check still owed us something, an honest effort. A hard night’s work for a good nights pay, instead we were slow ladled stinking Serbian fish head soup.

Its 3:10 in the morning and my sheets are still damp. Crawling back into bed, I’m going to try visualizing my dreams, good dreams that aren’t adorned in thick white political correctness. Solid mid-western blue collar dreams about new trucks and hair so thick it has to be combed with a sawed off yard rake. I’m going to dream about snaps and pops and ankles. I’m going to dream about 10 million rusty lead bone screws and a national anesthesia shortage….

Uh G, you've been smoking something. What you wrote is so far from the truth, I don't know where to begin.

First, how did Darko shaft us? We never played him. VC was getting 35 mpg and blew it off. Are you going to compare Darko blowing off garbage time to that? I cant recall one person, not even LB, saying Darko blew off practice. From what I can tell, he practiced hard, he worked hard, he just got upset during games when he couldn't play, and blew off garbage time.

Are you telling me you'd prefer a guy that was getting paid, and was happy he never got into the game?

Are you saying Darko pretended to be bad just to get out of Detroit? Huh? All he asked for is PT. I cant imagine a #2 overall pick that just wants to play.

Now as far as not busting his ass, and this is the most important point. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY!!!!!!

If Darko was not busting his ass day in and day out for 3 years, and never played any meaningful minutes in a game, explain how after only a few games, he's become Orlando's best player? (Don't believe me, check out 82 games). Or are you suggesting, his natural talent is so high, he could blow off 3 years at Detroit, and just step into Orlando and turn it up? He aint no long time Vet, who's already developed his game and shut down to get out of a bad situation, he was a 17 yo rook, with no real game experience that came to Detroit.

So once again, if he wasn't busting his ass the past 3 years, how is he doing so well now?

Total bs. How bout LB stealing his paycheck with Knicks? You don't seem to upset about that. Ran out on Detroit, where's you paycheck stealing post then?

This is the reality, LB hated Darko, didn't play him out of spite. Flip has the ghost of Minnesota on him, and has no time for anyone but the 5 and 1, Joe gave up trying to get his coaches to play his guy, and Darko and his agent realized that Darko deserved a Max level contract, but was never going to get the chance to show it in Detroit.

Speaking of money, by forcing the trade, Darko has probably doubled the size of his next contract. I guess you'd work for half pay for a boss that treats you like crap, just because it was in the D. I know I wouldnt.

Nice piece G. Exactly how I feel. This cat held out in Summer League (look at his turnaround at Eurobasket), and held out most of this season.

His teammates endorsed him, and he tanked to escape.

Joe and Bill D. got tired subsidizing a kid with a money grubbing agent (see Samuel Dalembert negotiations).

With the paycheck comes an obligation. You gotta play and play hard (even in garbage time), or you shouldn't be taking the check. Bottom line, he didn't. But he kept cashing the checks.

Like 16 said, he's doubled his money by leaving, a smooth financial move, paid for by the fans of the Pistons.

I wish him many losses and a max deal. There is a Raef LaFrentz future awaiting him. Reap the whirlwind.

A well written piece on how G hates Darko so much. Nice G nice, I respect your opinion.

And yes, I too am not paid that much to play pro ball.

My thoughts are that back then, if fortune would have it that I was in Joe Dumars' shoes, I would have made the same draft choice -- Darko Milicic, a raw, young big from Serbia -- over his contemporaries Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.

The thing is, Darko, like most immature young guys drafted at such a high position feel like they are entitled to something (example is Kwame Brown) LeBron of course is mature enough to know how to work. Darko was given a chance to show that he had the work ethic to devote himself to his profession. But sadly he did not show it.

After his first season under Larry Brown, he understandably pouted a lot but that should have changed under Flip Saunders when he was given a shot at playing time.

But I don't think he changed. And like most of us here read, it seemed like he was biding his time when he would be out of Detroit, away from the pressure of living up to his draft status, and the dwindling excuses for not putting in the time and effort.

Joe did the right thing in trading him. For the team and for the player.

He had to get something for Darko. His best mistake brought us a championship because there was no way of knowing anybody in that draft would have made the (non)impact Darko had.

So off goes Darko to the Magic, his chance for redemption.

I feel that Joe saw right in Darko as evidenced by his better performances in Orlando. He will be a good player in the coming years.

Unfortunately, he will see formidable opposition in the Detroit Pistons, the team he quit on. Which I hope will always kick his big Serbian behind.

16 & Bric,

Altruism starts at home. If you believe that, you should be upset with what your witnessing. You're willing to hold everyone accountable for his 30 months of performance except him, whats wrong this picture?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. We're either witnessing a miracle or we got sandbagged, there is no in-between cause the "lack of performance Vs sudden performance" is indicative in and of itself.

I like the idea of toothfairys but I don't believe in them. I like the happiness the Easter Bunny brings to a childs life, but I know the whole easter bunny gig was created by the egg lobby.

I don't fall for the smoke and mirrors and I'd advise ya'll need to stay away from poker tables.

The DMC guy shanked the org. It's plain as the fogged lenses on your rose colored glasses. You can shoot the messenger but the message stays the same..

Sandbagged? WTF? At what point did he sand bag? All of the Pistons said he was the real deal. That means he wasn't sand bagging in practice. In what little real game time he got at the beginning of the season, he did OK. He had one real bad game and never played again. <br><br>How do you sandbag in garbage time? JMax has done nothing but jack up shots in garbage time. No rebounds, no defense, just catch and shoot. Is that sandbagging.

Give me an example fellas. Saying something over and over again doesnt make it true.

Face facts. Our coaches choose to play lesser talent over better talent.

If you guys were the hot shot new hire for a lawfirm, top law school credentials, and some idiot who happened to be the brother in law of the president made partner before you, do you think you'd keep trying hard?

This is why we lost Darko, and will lose Delfino, and probably will lose Acker and Johnson. As far as JMax, he sucks, so we'll probably keep him.

Main thing I will not miss is all the guessing. Obviously the coach is not going to bench a player for one bad game. Something happened in practice. Darko lost his 5-10MPG off the court somehow. I don't know how. All I know is Dumars proclaimed Darko needed to go someplace where he could play 20 MPG.

All we need is one more year for Orlando to flounder. Then we can get hopefully get a 6th or 7th pick in the projected deep 07 draft. That would not be so bad.

It is a good piece. Pistons did spend a lot of resources on the kid. Not only financially with all the coaching hours put in. I am sure they had better things to do with their time. Pistons were Orlando's farm system.

Good work G-, but I think I know where your nitemares come from...
They come from trying to make sentences from these words, " instead we were slow ladled stinking Serbian fish head soup" :laugh:
I didn't see much of Darkos play. But if he was a team player , when he got double teamed at NY and no teammate looked for his pass, it would seem they abandoned him. Maybe they were trying to get him to finish, whatever, but if you got a 7 ft. rockin' body you don't need to take any
CRAP !:mad:

So, I take it all of you "Darko got shafted" people honestly believe that Darko had a right to play uninspired when he got in the game. The paycheck was not enough incentive for him to play hard all the time? Again, had Darko dominated his competition while he was in the game we wouldn't even be having this discussion. At Darko's best, he played mediocre for us during the regular season....period. That angers me.

You've got to be kidding me! Some of you guys are beyond unbelievable.

Sandbagging!?! Sandbagging? Is that what you guys are resorting to now? How in the heck can any of you people claim that Darko was sandbagging? That is totally preposterous. The problem with you guys, is that you just weren't paying attention, and even the times you did, you just dismissed what you saw.

The simple fact is, Darko showed that he could play like this plenty of times this year, as well as last.

He took the preseason by storm, even led the entire preseason in blocked shots, from the bench! He showed he could play then, but the nonbelievers wrote it off as "it's just the preseason, it doesn't count."

Then went on to say, "let's see him do it in the regular season." Which he did a few times early on, even Flip Saunders went so far as to say how well Darko had played and that he has to find him some minutes. His words, not mine. (Go look it up in the article section in the archives) Only for Saunders not to follow through, and instead he just left Darko glued to the bench.

The same thing Larry Brown did last year more than once. The exact same scenario, so much so that it's almost like déjà vu. Darko plays well/Saunders-Brown acknowledge it and say they've got to find him minutes to reward him/only not to follow through. The previous is all true, and all in the archives in the articles. For those that claim they don't remember or can't recall it.

Then the players have been on record since day one, claiming that Darko can indeed play. But you guys wrote them off too, saying "of course that's what they're going to say...they're his teammates, they're not going to drive down his value...Etc."

It's always something isn't it fellas? You never wanted to believe he could play. Even Micro went so far as to post comments about what John Thompson said. Which of course was "If he could play, they would play him." And I posted then, what a fool Thompson is.

The simple truth is Darko has always shown he can play like this, all he needed was extended minutes on the floor to show it. You'd think the haters/nonbelievers who've just simply been so wrong about him and dogged him over the past few years crying "bust, lazy, unmotivated, talentless etc." would just simply acknowledge that they were dead wrong on Darko and just eat their serving of crow. Instead of that though, we now get that he was "sandbagging."

Unbelievable.

Who you people need to be mad at is the Pistons head coaches that wouldn't play him, even when he clearly showed that he deserved playing time. Or you could even blame Joe for not forcing the issue. But to go so far as to claim that Darko was sandbagging is a far reach people, and frankly I don't know where you get the nerve.

He's shown these talents plenty of times while in the Pistons uniform. It's a shame that you missed out on it.

Zo,

I think you missed the point of that article completely. It's a trend with the hardcore Darko fans. They launch into the same old story, the emotional baggage that every Pistons' fan is supposed to be saddled with.

If Darko wanted to play, he would have stayed in Europe for a couple years. But he rode the hype to a big paycheck and a lot of bench.

After seeing the money that Tayshaun re-upped for, that's gotta send a shockwave to DMC. WAIT A SECOND??!! I LEFT SERBIA FOR THIS?!?

Yep, his earning potential was in question. IT's obvious now, he's a max deal stud. But he would NEVER have earned that in the Motor City.

So he tanked. All the evidence he tanked is there. He isn't developing in Orlando, he's actually trying really hard for the first time since Eurobasket. Because he looked NOTHING like this in a Pistons uniform, even 5 months ago in the preseason.

So please, spare me the Pistons are bad, coaches are bad, starters are bad, NBA is bad, John Thompson is bad rhetoric.

DMC could have given like this, HELL he was supposed to give like this because he cashes those checks, but he didn't.

It will be VERY interesting to see what Darko does when he becomes a restricted free agent. VERY interesting. It will also be interesting to see how he responds to any playing time bumps in the road.

OH, and I'll admit, Darko is one hell of a player. He could be a super great one. But not in Detroit. The #s weren't right.

I am willing to go on record right now. The young Serbian learned something else in Detroit.

When his contract time comes up, he will not go for the max contract. He has learned that it is important to build something and both he and Dwight will take less than the max to stay in the building mode as long as he is still getting the respect and PT that it takes to get it done.

I still think Memo did the same thing. He did not go for the max contract; he went for the PT and the chance to help build something. BTW, he had 29 last night.

Excuse me... "spare you." Spare you the facts? Because that's what they are.

That is total BS Micro, I'm not missing the point on anything. This is exactly what he looked like in preseason, I still have the PM's from our conversation about Darko's play in the preseason, remember when we spoke about his fine play in the preseason? and you went and posted "Zo's been telling me that Darko and Delfino are kicking butt and taking names in the preseason. Is this true fellas?" as a matter of fact I recall in that conversation we were having. You even said that you didn't see hardly any of the preseason games. (I could go check, though)

So how can you sit there and say "he looked NOTHING like this in a piston uniform. Even five months ago in the preseason."?? when it's quite the contrary. He played really well back then.

He's shown these exact skills, plenty of times, while in a piston uniform. Just not in garbage time that you guys seem to hold so near and dear.

And it's not an excuse when people say that it got to the point that he just quit trying in garbage time because he knew that it would never transpire into more game time. No matter how good he did. So why even try? Nothing was ever going to come from it one way or the other. That was obvious. Simple as that. And you can't argue against that. If he never got more time after playing really well in meaningful minutes, why on earth would he believe it would be any different from his garbage time performance? the truth is that it wouldn't have. And you call that sandbagging?? It wasn't sandbagging, he was just simply beaten and just gave up.

And now that he finds himself getting force-fed the minutes that he should have been getting in Detroit, he's ecstatic and rejuvenated. It would be the exact same situation if we would've played him here. Look man. The kid wants to play, he doesn't want no part of a championship that he has nothing to do with, heck who would?

Oh, and he could have been a great player with Detroit, if only the coaches would've played him.

Its a crazy backwards world..

"So why even try?" (say what..?)

Besides being hired as a professional - I can think of 10 million immediate reasons why he should've tried.

How anyone can say (with a straight face) he had a right to give anything less than 100% from the minute he pulled on the jersey is totally beyond my understanding. What world are you living in? What do you do all day? He learned team play? Say what? When did isolating your game become team play?

All of the guys that hung like lint off his jock aren't vindicated by his current play, you've been violated! It's just the opposite. He never gave at the Pistons office.

He had two viable choices, work his ass off to out-play the other bigs or work his ass off and out-wait them. He chose neither.

Instead he stunk the joint up during any game time he was given. No sane person can revisit his Pistons history to re-write the script, it's in the frickin record books. He tanked his game time to get out'a dodge. Everyone knows it and everyone acknowledges it.

The fact that other players said he could play only proves he made no real effort on the floor. It substantiates the opinions of all those that said he wasn't making a real effort, that he wasn't giving us fans or the Pistons his best game. Those are the only opinions being vindicated by his current play.

He murphyed all the lintballs and now they want to lay claim to some hidden knowledge. What is it? That he lacks personal integrity? That he has the soft underbelly of lazy housecat? That you're willing to sway in the wind like a roadside weed to defend a guy that just sucker punched you in front of the whole world?

Joe d and an assortment of others all said he had game. We paid for his game but what we got was gamed. This isn't rocket science and the earths rotation isn't spinning backwards.

Sorry but you can't claim victory when your pants are hanging down around your ankles, especially when it's your guy that tugged them down. The emotional investment some have made to defend this cats honor after he 'Vinced" us borders on insanity.

Now take off your Piston wear and go sit in the corner cause you've earned a lengthy timeout...:)

I'm really having a very hard time buying this conspiracy theory. Coaches (all coaches) play to win. They put the players on the floor who give them the best chance to win. Period. Not just the American players. Not just the black players. The best players to win.

Darko was here for almost three years. I started out as a big supporter. I remember seeing him come for out of nowhere his first game or so and get some rediculous blocks. I couldn't believe it! Fast. Lightning Fast. Not to mention 7 feet tall.

On many a lottery team, he would have instantly been given playing time. Everyone agrees on that. But he wasn't on any lottery team. He played for a team Contending for a championship, and on this team, the coach plays the players that give the team the best chance to win. So despite Darko's amazing talent, he was obviously not the best option to win.

Which doesn't excuse his lack of effort! The guy signed a contract, cashed the checks, and gave almost nothing. Yeah, I remember the blocks in preseason. I remember the Darko crossover driving the lane (that was insane!). But I also remember Darko not trying to get a rebound. Not even lifting his hands. I saw him duck from a rebound once. I saw him step aside when a guard was charging the lane. Just get right out of the way. "Here ya go. It's garbage time, who cares!"

As for the lawyer analogy someone made earlier: when I graduated from college I had a well respected degree and a couple of years of experience working as a college intern. I had letters of recomendation from professors I had worked with on research projects. I came to my first job well qualified. And for the next six months I worked the copy machine, did the coffee runs, and handled the mail. Certainly beneath my abilities. But they were paying me, and that's what they wanted me to do. It was a test. A test to see if I really wanted the job. A test to see if I was a team player.

Darko failed the test. :mad:

Oh yeah. Another thing. I never thought the guy was sandbagging. I thought he might be retarded. (I'm serious) I coulnd't figure out how a guy that tall, that quick, with those great passing instincts could stink it up so bad. I figured he was just slow and couldn't figure out how to play the game. Kinda like rainman with a jumpshot.

So much for thinking that the trade would restore the peace around here. ;)

Meanwhile it's a great kick to visit Orlando forums and watch guys frothing that "Darko is better than Howard." They're already counting championships over there, but the Magic keep losing and Darko still does a couple of bad things for every good thing, as he did in last night's game against the Suns.

At the heart of this whole puzzle is a missing piece -- without which we are as helpless as Kennedy conspiracy buffs without the Zapruder Film. I refer to Darko's legendary "Chad Ford Workout" at John Jay College. Doesn't it seem at least a LITTLE bit likely someone would have taped it for future reference while sizing up draft prospects? Hmmmm ...

My current take on all this is that the Pistons saw a passionate talent who was actually just passionate about getting out of Serbia. Now he's got the playing time he wants, the good money, the Florida coastline for his jet ski. I think he will be a good player in the league as he gets more comfortable with his skills, but never the player that fires up so many imaginations. Which will suit him just fine.

As for the lawyer analogy someone made earlier: when I graduated from college I had a well respected degree and a couple of years of experience working as a college intern. I had letters of recomendation from professors I had worked with on research projects. I came to my first job well qualified. And for the next six months I worked the copy machine, did the coffee runs, and handled the mail. Certainly beneath my abilities. But they were paying me, and that's what they wanted me to do. It was a test. A test to see if I really wanted the job. A test to see if I was a team player.

Darko failed the test. :mad:

Just how long does that test need to last? If you were still grabbing coffee and making copies after 3-4 years would you still want to be at that job?

Considering this point, each of us has to raise their game. To think above the same emotional arguments we get caught up in everyday. The coach did this, or it was hopeless, or Joe wasted the pick etc.

As Pistons fans, we're blessed with a team that is considered (along with the Spurs) a model for NBA unselfishness. It's not the norm, it's the exception.

Ben is grossly underpaid, has been for years. Chauncey is playing at bargain bin prices for elite PG performance. Sheed actually re-signed a smaller deal AFTER WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP.

Joe has built a culture here. Not every player fits. Not every need is met. The only consistent theme in Detroit for the last 3 years has been, "Do you want to win?". That's been the selling point to guys like Davis and Dice. The reason why Flip took the high pressure job for a negligible pay increase.

Do you want to win? Will you sacrifice minutes to win? Will you pass up a big contract, to win?

Aguirre did it. When Jack traded A.D., Aguirre was a cancer in the Mavs organization. A true "me first" player. But when placed in a situation, with great players who demanded accountability, and a winning attitude, he was even willing to let the younger Rodman play chunks of his minutes, because it gave them a better chance to win. That was the same sacrifice that Dantley complained about, even as the Bad Boys were getting closer and closer to being World Champs. "The Teacher" couldn't see the bigger prize. Immortality. Universal respect.

Darko's not unique in this. Baron Davis tanked in New Orleans. Zo tanked in NJ and refused to report to Toronto. Carter basically sold his soul to escape the Great White North.

All 3 resurrected their careers with new teams.

Joe's message when drafting J-Max that he was looking for Pistons DNA was pretty obvious. He'd lost Memo, and he had to have the feeling that the Darko pick might not work out either. Not because either player didn't have talent or were bad people, but that they might not be willing to compromise their earning potential to maintain a high work ethic and settle for less minutes.

As a Pistons fan, Joe's unique house is dependent on all of the pieces being in it for the same reasons. That's hard to do. Incredibly hard. Everyone has an agenda, and Joe can only cater to so many of those individual agendas before the whole thing starts to unravel.

Would I take $4 million a year to play garbage time? Absolutely. That's why we love these guys. It's a working class team, for working class folk. We can identify with them. We understand what it is like to be cut, or traded, or rejected. Deep down, we all have a sense of pride that has been trampled or overlooked.

That's why we raise our game, and that is why they raised theirs.

Just how long does that test need to last? If you were still grabbing coffee and making copies after 3-4 years would you still want to be at that job?
For 50 grand a day, you bet!:P

Honestly, I think it lasts until his contract is up. Plus, the difference is, that when I had the opportunity to do things that were degree related, I did the absolute best that I could. I guarantee that Darko would have had more playing time if he would have truly "brought-it" while he was on the court.

I watched part of the Sonics game last night, and I couldn't help but notice that as the Pistons were standing around a bit, Mo Evans was flying out of bounds trying to grab the loose ball, or crashing the boards hard for the rebound. Even when he didn't have much of a chance of getting it.

If Darko would have taken all that talent and played with that kind of heart for 3 minutes of garbage time, I guarantee you he wouldn't have been sitting on the bench. I never saw that kind of effort out of the guy. Ever.:mad:

For 50 grand a day, you bet!:P

Honestly, I think it lasts until his contract is up. Plus, the difference is, that when I had the opportunity to do things that were degree related, I did the absolute best that I could. I guarantee that Darko would have had more playing time if he would have truly "brought-it" while he was on the court.

I watched part of the Sonics game last night, and I couldn't help but notice that as the Pistons were standing around a bit, Mo Evans was flying out of bounds trying to grab the loose ball, or crashing the boards hard for the rebound. Even when he didn't have much of a chance of getting it.

If Darko would have taken all that talent and played with that kind of heart for 3 minutes of garbage time, I guarantee you he wouldn't have been sitting on the bench. I never saw that kind of effort out of the guy. Ever.:mad:

Here is where we completely disagree. I feel like whatever Darko did (good Euroleague, good preseason) he was never gonna play. His coaches even said that he was playing hard in practice and they said that needed to get him PT but they NEVER FOLLOWED UP. 3-5 minutes stints every 3rd-4th game won't give you much time to "find your game".

Just look at Carlos Delfino. All we have heard is that Flip loves him and his effort but yet he is still racking up DNP-CD's. No one complains about CD's effort or game.

Dice did not start the season on fire. He was DECENT at best but yet he gets his minutes added to and Darko loses his? Dice wasn't hustling everywhere. He had some 2-3 rebound games and got beat on D alot. But because Dice was a vet he got a free pass.

For everyone who says that Darko didn't didin't "earn his pt" they need to remember that Darko was on the roster for 2.5 years and he was practicing everyday and he PATIENTLY waited for over 2 years for his turn before GIVING UP. I think that's alot of patience for a #2 overall pick and 20 year kid.

Why use Dice and Delfino as examples?

The smoking gun is the fired up guy sans metro-sexual haircut in Orlando. A complete attitude and hairstyle makeover. His first 10 minutes in Orlando was more productive than his last 30 minutes of Detroit basketball.

But now he's on a squad that will be able to afford top dollar when he's a RFA. That's fact. I watched a little Orlando ball with DMC, and he NEVER played like that in Detroit. The only one unleashing DMC was himself.

Zo, if he slacked off do to his untenable situation, he was sandbaggin'. I think people can see effort or lack of said.
Is the fact that Lee is having the last laugh with his sandbaggin' term. eating at you?

If you read G-mans article he does not specify that Darko lost it during games. Yes he would have some great moments in the sparse PT he did get only to lose his spot for something he was doing or not doing off the court in practice.

Nonone knows the true story. Maybe someone will write a book in 20 years but for now we can only guess. Maybe he was not showing up on time or refusing to do certain drills - who knows? It is still early in Orlando.

Darko made a dumb comment. Most players who get traded under stressfull circumstances do slip out dumb comments. G.Hill made plenty of them on his way out.

One thing we can admire is that the kidd did not go Artest on us. He went through the proper channels in requesting a trade and we ended up with a potentially decent pick in return.

Micro I don't remember you ever saying Darko was a Max-O guy six months back. This is new for you, nice to see you adjust.
...Lazy, I'll check you on the money thing, if Darko learned anything here he'll sign in the 55-65 mi$. area. If he is a me guy he'll sign in the 70-80 range. Check those numbers.

Three TFD, what makes me think that he is a team-first guy and will take less than the max: Even when he was getting such a low amount of PT, he spent his time passing to teammates, setting picks, and especially passing to and setting up rookies. He would take and make one shot a game. He jumped out on pick and rolls and blocked shots

own in Orlando, he is doing the same and still scoring, but not as much as he will do later.

Another thing that is misleading, in my view is that he just goes so slow during times when the action is not on. I don't know how many of you guys remember Jim Brown, the Cleveland NFLer. He would drag himself to his feet and back to the huddle after running and getting tackled. It was like he could not summon up another drop of energy. But when he ran the ball on the next play, he would explode into the line.

Just watch Darko's feet when he is like going to the foul line or on and off the court. Then watch them when he jumps out on the pick and roll and then gets back to his man before the ball can get there.

Well, the story is not over yet. And it surely does cause some conversation on the forums.

Ok enough with the BSing please. If he took and made one shot a game, he'd be a perfect shooter, which he wasn't.

Who cares how fabulous his footwork is? Detroit was his nightmare. He couldn't earn enough cold hard cash here, and his butt cheeks fell asleep trying to stay interested in a championship drive.

I absolutely cannot wait until it comes time for him to negotiate a new contract in Orlando. We'll see how interested he is in being a team guy, leaving some salary scraps on the table for Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson to pick up...

This is going to be a hard pill for some of you to swallow but the Pistons screwed Darko. If the Pistons are the epitome of selfless team play as many of you claim them to be, there should have been no reason that Ben could not have given some of his pt to Darko. Same goes for Sheed and Dyess. If they cared about this team the way some of you think they do which is to bleed Piston red white and blue this should have been a simple thing to do.

If Darko had gotten the 10-15 minutes a game that he needed to develop then he would have become the player we all thought he could have been when Joe drafted him. We all know that there are games that players like Sheed have a hard time to get up for because the other team sux. These are the games when developing Darko would have been easy to do. Hell games where we had at lead a 10 point lead in it would have been a good time to put in the kid and let him learn to play through his mistakes. If the game got to close for comfort put the starters back in and boom your back in the lead you won the game and your human victory cigar is 1 step closer to ridding himself of the nickname.

Imo he never stood a chance because he was never given anything other than garbage time. I agree with Zoso on this one completely no matter what he showed he was not going to take time away from the big 3 so what did it matter. Speaking of big 3's if you want to look at it from a metaphorical sense you can compare them. The automaker big 3 got to full of itself and then wham someone else was making the cars that people wanted. The Pistons big 3 won’t dominate much longer and could have used young Darko to keep them at the top.

The argument will only intensify if Darko proves he can play. With each game Darko gets a solid double double and 3-5 blocks and Bens rebound total goes down it will be really hard to put a positive spin on it from a Pistons standpoint. But hey if you want to fit the definition of a homer to a T and say it was all Darko’s fault then be my guest.

My nightmare will be when Ben goes down in a heap and we have to use J-max as a center.

I see some serious denial here. First people said Darko sucked, now that he doesn't suck, they say he sandbagged. Also I here people saying that if the coaches new he was this good they would have played him, because coaches want to win, they'll play there best players.

As to coaches playing there best players, does anyone remember the triple overtime loss against NJ, where Ben had fouled out, and LB put in Darvin at center over Okur? Was LB playing the best player to win or his favorite player? Be honest. A lot of coaches would rather lose their way, than win with guys they don't like.

As for sandbagging, get real. Sheed is quoted as saying a lot of you cats are going to proven wrong about Darko, he's the real deal. If he was sand bagging why did Piston player think he was really good. And for sandbagging real pt, Darko had a handful of real pt in 3 years, and I'd say a majority of those games he did OK. He had one horrific game against NY, and he never played again.

As far as GT, he's playing GT with guys looking to pad their stats, and do you guys remember when he broke his hand in GT in the finals, and LB wouldn't let him come out? Do ya think Sheed plays hard in GT? He admitted to taking regular season games off.

And as far as going for the cash, let me get this straight, Detroit has pretty much treated him like crap for 3 years, yet he should be willing to sign for much less in Detroit than he could get anywhere else just for the privilege of being in Detroit? Ben, I understand, Prince I understand, we treated them right. Can you honestly say we treated Darko right?

Think about it, he could resign in Detroit for about 5 or 6 mil a year, sit the bench, and be called the human victory cigar, or go somewhere else, sign for 10+ mil a year, start, get endorsements, and receive recognition.

And last, this is a Detroit trend, Houston signed with the Knicks without even allowing Detroit to match. GHill told the Pistons not to match. What makes you think Darko would want the Pistons to match. Somethings up with the org, we treat some guys right, but for some reason we really mess up with other guys that could really help the team.

And unfortunately we're repeating the same mistakes with Delfino, Acker, and Johnson.

This is going to be a hard pill for some of you to swallow but the Pistons screwed Darko. If the Pistons are the epitome of selfless team play as many of you claim them to be, there should have been no reason that Ben could not have given some of his pt to Darko. Same goes for Sheed and Dyess. If they cared about this team the way some of you think they do which is to bleed Piston red white and blue this should have been a simple thing to do.

That may be the real story, Ben, Dice, and Sheed may have complained about minutes and guess who loses? Darko. I know Dice was complaining at the beginning of the season that Darko was taking his minutes, he blamed that on his poor play at the beginning. (Check the stats, Darko was out playing Dice the first month).

The same may be happening with Tay and Delfino. Tay is in slump, no need to put in Delfino who might challenge for minutes, play Evans, no threat to Tay.

And as far as going for the cash, let me get this straight, Detroit has pretty much treated him like crap for 3 years, yet he should be willing to sign for much less in Detroit than he could get anywhere else just for the privilege of being in Detroit? Ben, I understand, Prince I understand, we treated them right. Can you honestly say we treated Darko right?
Can you honestly say that Darko treated Detroit right? The premise of the article is that if you collect the paycheck, you show up and do your job. Basically the foundation of Detroit basketball. If you don't get minutes, but the team is still winning, you collect your check, smile/sign autographs and you do your job.

Think about it, he could resign in Detroit for about 5 or 6 mil a year, sit the bench, and be called the human victory cigar, or go somewhere else, sign for 10+ mil a year, start, get endorsements, and receive recognition.
Ok, so you do grasp the premise of the article. Darko did what was right by him, not what was right by the Pistons. That's fine. I don't have a problem with it, because we ship players with that mentality out of town. Everyone should be happy. Which is why I cannot understand why there is a bombardment of "look at Darko in Orlando", when this team is still on track to win a title, and now has the cap room to compete for a couple more years without any major overhauls.

And last, this is a Detroit trend, Houston signed with the Knicks without even allowing Detroit to match. GHill told the Pistons not to match. What makes you think Darko would want the Pistons to match. Somethings up with the org, we treat some guys right, but for some reason we really mess up with other guys that could really help the team.
Houston left under another management regime. He also never won anything playing with HOFers for a HOF coach in NY.

I'd say losing Grant Hill turned out pretty good. We got more for Darko than we did for Hill considering the relative position of the club at two different times.

And unfortunately we're repeating the same mistakes with Delfino, Acker, and Johnson.
No, we're not repeating the mistake as you put it. Delfino is being worked into the lineup. He's also bringing a Grade A effort everytime on the court, which will endear him to Joe.

Acker and Johnson, for those of you too busy following the Orlando Magic are tearing up the D-League. That's right, two late second round picks who could easily have been undrafted FAs if not selected by the Pistons are playing for min contracts and putting out in Fayetteville.

Wave, 2 points
Nobody, and I mean nobody, signs for 5 mil below fare value. And guarantee this, Darko, because of this trade will be the #1 Free agent next year. Orlando is already doing a Joe, 3 blocks in 3 minutes tonight. Orlando yanked him, thinking oh crap, he's good, how do we resign him on the cheap. Too late, the cat's out of the bag.

Two, Detroit is working Delfino out of the rotation, inspite of doing everything the right way this season. Delfino is as gone as Darko.

Lots of good points here.

In my opinion here are the facts:

Detroit's coaches, both Brown and Flip, have done a poor job of integrating rookie talent into the lineup. Flip's decison to play Evans over Delfino and continue to play the starters in the fourth quarter when we are ahead by a large margin prove these points.
Darko didn't do much to help his cause. Where Flip has an obvious affinity for Evans, he had a similar appreciation for Darko at the beginning of the season. Darko stopped working hard and eventually became disinterested in playing. Chauncey even admitted that this was the truth. This is not conducive to the "be ready when my name is called" mentality that helps win one minutes. Darko was payed a helluva lot of money this year to be ready when called upon. He wasn't. Unacceptable.
Darko, given minutes, has shown tremendous upside in Orlando. Its obvious that Darko is excelling in his new situation. The jury is still out though fellas. Can you say Dampier, Blount, Gadzuric, Swift, Nestorivich...? The list goes on and on. These are players that actually posted amazing numbers just to fizzle out over time when the motivation fades. Please hold off in placing Darko in the Hall of Fame just yet.
Darko was never going to succeed here. I think everyone can agree with this point. His effort, the coaches mismanagement, and unrealistic expectations prevented Darko from ever being a part of Detroit's long term plans. Darko has a new lease on life. I'm glad I no longer have a vested interest in his success. That roller coaster ride was beginning to grow old.

You know why Darko was traded?

It's because of uncertainties like this. This topic and this subject. The kid himself. His work ethic, his excuses, his lack of effort, his sandbagging, his playing time among other things.

He was traded because he didn't bring it every night.

He didn't bring it every night because he felt he deserved more.

TO his credit, maybe he could have been given more time.

But that is why he was traded. Too many what ifs and no tangible performances in the regular season to speak of.

He will bloom in Orlando, as he is, and he will prove that he wasn't as wasted a pick as we all thought.

He wanted the change. We wanted to facilitate that and get something in return.

These are not rose-shaded spectacles I'm looking through. These are plain, black rimmed, fair view of what I think went on.

Darko: Immature, too much pressure, too great a hype to live up to, no time, no effort on court, gave up and waited for his contract to run out so he could go to a team where he will be given minutes.

Pistons: Those spectacles G was talking about, thought that everybody they brought in bought into the selfless system they so cherish, a coaching staff who was bent on making Darko earn minutes hence no playing time, and a cap to think about.

I'm not saying it was all Darko, and it was definitely not all Pistons. It was both, and when you see that it is not working, you got to let it go and find something else that works.

I'm not angry G. I'm disappointed. But I still believe in Detroit. As much as I rooted for the kid to do well, he is enemy now and hate him as much as you do, in a competitive way.

G's article is right on the money! I feel the same way. The cat flat out STOLE money while he was here. His legacy as a Piston did not eclipse Chuck Nevitt or William Bedford. :frusty:

The biggest disagreement over Darko had to do with interpretation of his play. All he had to do was step on the court and the Darko lovers would swear he was playing "fantastic." It's like they were really looking at Sheed and imagining a #31 jersey on him. Or vice-versa. Exhibit A is all the comparisons to Sheed, i.e. "Sheed gets away with "X," why can't Darko?"

How does a super-hyped lottery pick let a same aged, same sized, no-hyped, no playing time scrub like Peter John Ramos flat out DOG him out? :confused: INEXCUSABLE! :frusty: And that's just ONE example.

I am SO GLAD this clown is out of here! I wish him well in Mickey Town where if he approaches the second coming of Shawn Bradley; those fans will appreciate it. :hail: Our expectations are higher than that in these parts.

Quit beating around the bush, Mad. Just come right out and say what you mean. :violin: :hurt::blah: :deadhorse :behindsof !!!


Everybody is allowed to be completely wrong, sometime.

Lots of good points here.

In my opinion here are the facts:

Detroit's coaches, both Brown and Flip, have done a poor job of integrating rookie talent into the lineup. Flip's decison to play Evans over Delfino and continue to play the starters in the fourth quarter when we are ahead by a large margin prove these points.
Darko didn't do much to help his cause. Where Flip has an obvious affinity for Evans, he had a similar appreciation for Darko at the beginning of the season. Darko stopped working hard and eventually became disinterested in playing. Chauncey even admitted that this was the truth. This is not conducive to the "be ready when my name is called" mentality that helps win one minutes. Darko was payed a helluva lot of money this year to be ready when called upon. He wasn't. Unacceptable.
Darko, given minutes, has shown tremendous upside in Orlando. Its obvious that Darko is excelling in his new situation. The jury is still out though fellas. Can you say Dampier, Blount, Gadzuric, Swift, Nestorivich...? The list goes on and on. These are players that actually posted amazing numbers just to fizzle out over time when the motivation fades. Please hold off in placing Darko in the Hall of Fame just yet.
Darko was never going to succeed here. I think everyone can agree with this point. His effort, the coaches mismanagement, and unrealistic expectations prevented Darko from ever being a part of Detroit's long term plans. Darko has a new lease on life. I'm glad I no longer have a vested interest in his success. That roller coaster ride was beginning to grow old.

EXACTLY RIGHT MO!!!

The "Darko Experiment wasn't one persons fault. Its a shared blame. Joe D, LB, Flip and Darko ALL deserve some of the blame for this.

Joe drafted Darko (at the time, it looked like the right decision, so I won't fault him for that)

Darko expected PT to be handed to him (Darko's fault)

LB compeltely destroyed the kid emotionally (LB's fault)

LB and Flip wouldn't give him enough opportunities (LB's, Flips, and Joe's fault for allowing it to happen)

Darko didn't take consistent advantage (Darko's fault) of the few chances (LB and Flip's fault) he did get. He gave us flashes, but couldn't sustain it.

Darko wasn't rewarded when he did perform well. The organization talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk. (LB's, Flips, and Joe's fault for allowing it to happen)

Darko gave up completely (Darko's fault)

The fact that we're still talking about Darko (our fault)

Yeah Lazy, I know complaining about Darko is :deadhorse

Everytime I read a comparison of Darko to Sheed I hear :violin:

Everytime I hear that he wasn't given a chance, I also hear :violin:

Makes me :sick:

Darko was :crutch: given the :clock: he got. No wonder Joe :yield:

I'm :Cry: cause we could have spent that pick (and $) on ______.

I knew Darko was :rip: after that inspired performance in the summer leagues. You can :hail: him if you choose.

I look forward to our game with the Magic so we can :laser: :brick: Darko and :smash: Arroyo while :boxing: Orlando.

Say....aren't these "smilies" cool? :nod:

16 & Bric,

Altruism starts at home. If you believe that, you should be upset with what your witnessing. You're willing to hold everyone accountable for his 30 months of performance except him, whats wrong this picture?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. We're either witnessing a miracle or we got sandbagged, there is no in-between cause the "lack of performance Vs sudden performance" is indicative in and of itself.

I like the idea of toothfairys but I don't believe in them. I like the happiness the Easter Bunny brings to a childs life, but I know the whole easter bunny gig was created by the egg lobby.

I don't fall for the smoke and mirrors and I'd advise ya'll need to stay away from poker tables.

The DMC guy shanked the org. It's plain as the fogged lenses on your rose colored glasses. You can shoot the messenger but the message stays the same..


Bill Laimbeer (the real one) refers to guys like Darko as "stealing money".

Nice piece, G.

.........

The same may be happening with Tay and Delfino. Tay is in slump, no need to put in Delfino who might challenge for minutes, play Evans, no threat to Tay.

Now that is al hoot. On his worst day Tay will outplay Delfino.

Bill Laimbeer (the real one) refers to guys like Darko as "stealing money".

Nice piece, G.

Better not let guys like Lee, 16 Farms, Bball jay, Lazyberbs and G-Rap Dave see this. I'm sure they'll tell us that Bill Lambier (the real one) don't know what he's talking about.

Just goes to show that great minds think alike! :nod:

Good post Jam and Hat. I was thinking of doing something like that.

Great points J. For sake of argument (you know how it gets between games), I'll take issue with some of your points.

jammertime
LB compeltely destroyed the kid emotionally (LB's fault)


I ain't buying this. What did LB do besides try to teach the kid to play inside out? If DMC was not emotionally ready for the NBA he should have stayed home another year. But it LOOKS LIKE the promise of big bucks was irresistable to him. Maybe that's his father's fault? Certainly LB ain't in the business of baby-ing wanna-be NBA players. Especially on a contender.

LB and Flip wouldn't give him enough opportunities (LB's, Flips, and Joe's fault for allowing it to happen)


Not sure I buy this completely either. DMC did nada with the chances he got. He felt "opportunity time" was beneath him. :rolleyes: Joe is on record saying PT had to be earned. :horn: Not one...but TWO well respected coaches felt it was better to sit him....given his attitude. Having said that, it seems that both coaches could have found more opportunities to use him. :ohwell: But if the kid ain't serious, why bother. What does that say to the rest of the players on the bench who play (and practice) like they WANT IT....all the time?

Darko wasn't rewarded when he did perform well. The organization talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk. (LB's, Flips, and Joe's fault for allowing it to happen)


I'm hard pressed to find a case where he "performed well" except maybe the Atlanta game what, a year ago. I suspect after the games where he "performed well" he followed up with a lackluster practice, as was reported. :mad2: Sounds like that ones on Darko.

The fact that we're still talking about Darko (our fault)

Truer words ain't never been spoken. I'm tryin to stay focused on the Pistons, but I can't seem to escape the Darko vortex. Maybe it's cause I don't like folk STEALING money from us. :frusty:

i've pretty much stated my thoughts about darko in various other threads. simply put, he didn't belong in a pistons uniform, and joe rightly shipped him outta town.

Why use Dice and Delfino as examples?

The smoking gun is the fired up guy sans metro-sexual haircut in Orlando. A complete attitude and hairstyle makeover. His first 10 minutes in Orlando was more productive than his last 30 minutes of Detroit basketball.

But now he's on a squad that will be able to afford top dollar when he's a RFA. That's fact. I watched a little Orlando ball with DMC, and he NEVER played like that in Detroit. The only one unleashing DMC was himself.

darko shaved his head while he was still a piston so your smoken gun arguement does not hold up at all.

under your rfa logic he has no more and no less insentive to play well in orlando then he did in detroit he could of signed with the top bider as an rfa with the pistons and he can still sign with the top bider when he now becomes an rfa with the magic.

the stealen money arguement also does not hold any water with me i just do not see evedence that darko doged it as you claim. quiet the contrery i think he played very well when given the mineskule oppertunidy he was given. darko did well in his only two nba starts last year he did well in preseason this year he did well in at least a few garbage time games such as one agenst the nicks he did well in practise. people i will say it again he played 553 minites total in more than two and a half seasens andrew bogut played about three times that in about half a seasen this year. no way that darko doged it so badly that he deserved only 553 minites in two and a half seasens. i think he got shafted large

he wanted to play in detroit and did not get a chance. he got that chance in orlando and is now playen well it is as simple as that with me.

Look dude, I'm working class. My relatives are working class. That's not to say that we haven't done well financially, but everyone in my family understands the concept of rolling up your sleeves and going to work.

The entire argument G-man made is based upon the understanding that with a paycheck, there comes a responsibility to fulfill the job. To give a consistent and honest effort. It's pretty much the foundation of Detroit basketball. You don't gripe about minutes, you don't gripe about pay. You accept your role so the team can win.

I'm kinda worn out on this, but the whole "Darko was in a gulag", "Darko was treated poorly in Detroit" thing wears on me. The Pistons treat their players and staff like family. That's why LB got tossed. That's why Carlisle got tossed. They were the Grumpy Uncles who touched the secretaries hineys in an inappropriate manner or got caught in a lie.

Every player in Detroit is a character guy. There are no malcontents. I've seen tape of practices, and Joe is down there yukking it up with the guys and things seem very loose and friendly.

If you're not willing to accept that DMC tanked, then understand the Pistons did not tank on him either. He still got paid. He still got a ring. He was still on the playoff roster. He got late season starts over Elden Campbell (who could have used the opportunity for playoff conditioning).

I'm a lifelong Pistons fan. You won't catch me posting on a Knicks board about Alan Houston. Or a Magic board about Grant Hill. I'm not saying that people who do that are not fans, but my loyalty to the Pistons is absolute. Even when they are wrong, they're still my team. I don't think they were wrong here. It was a difficult situation, but they handled it (within the big picture) as well as any other franchise might have.

So when you say Darko got shafted, consider how G-man or I feel as Pistons fans who watched our #2 overall, once in a lifetime opportunity pick in an insanely deep draft languish. Everyone got hosed on this outcome except Darko. At the very least as a Darko fan, you should appreciate that Joe did right by your boy. He could have traded him next year. He could have screwed him out of a year of significant playing time on a non-contender. He didn't. Because Joe is all class.

i like joe d i think he is a respectible person. i think it is the evil larry and flip that are the primary sorces of fault here.

ok anyway we are going definately going in circles so let me pose a couple of questions to you.

let us assume that darko did tank in detroit. why is he not tanken now in orlando? the rfa arguement is not convincing to me for the reason i mentioned in my last post.

if darko had not tanked in detroit would he have played many more minites? how would you have prefered the last 2.5 seasens to have unfolded? with darko tryen realy hard but still sitten on the bench the whole time?

if darko had not tanked in detroit would he have played many more minites? how would you have prefered the last 2.5 seasens to have unfolded? with darko tryen realy hard but still sitten on the bench the whole time?
(ughhhhhhhh... sucked in to Darko vortex)

I'm not presuming to answer for Microwave but my answer to your last question is: I would have wanted to see Darko trying hard the whole time, every time, all the time and as a result of his hard work, TAKING minutes from Dice. Force them to play you. Don't take any time as garbage time or an insult. Show a regional or national audience that these coaches are dimwits for not playing you.

While I appreciate the balanced contributions to this thread, like MotownPride's, I come down on the side of Gman's well written article. Screw Darko. Detroit did not give up on Darko, Darko gave up on Detroit.

I think the pistons mishandled this from the very beginning. Sure darko was awesome in drills. But this isn't the 90's where you can lock in a rookie. You got 4 years. The pistons really needed someone who could make an immediate impact. I felt like detroit wanted the best of both worlds. They didn't need a lottery pick now but could have used one later so they got a kid who was too young and needed to mature. Even if darko had PT and was great could the pistons even hold him? He was the wrong guy.

What i don't get is that you have a winning environment that is doing something special. If the team was struggling, I could see getting real frustrated.

The pistons added darko to help their team. Darko came to the pistons looking to help his career. The talk about darko helping this team right now is moot. He didn't want to help this team. He may be filling the stat sheet in orlando but he's not contributing to actually winning

I guess my blame handout is based on hindsight specific to Darko rather than as a hard and fast rule for everyone. I do agree with you that PT should be earned, not given based on when you were drafted or how much you make.

LB is a hard %%%%% coach. He's known to be very tough on rookies. Right or wrong, that approach doesn't always work with every rookie. You have to be able to adapt your management style to the individual. Some people respond well to being yelled at or being called out publicly. Some don't. Darko was obviously one of the don'ts.

My main point was just that there was plenty of blame to go around. I don't blame it all on 1 person. But hopefully, everyone involved has learned from their mistakes and can move on.

We have several young players with the dreaded P word (potential), and I'd just like to see them reach that potential while in a Piston's jersey rather than someone else's.

jammertime
My main point was just that there was plenty of blame to go around. I don't blame it all on 1 person. But hopefully, everyone involved has learned from their mistakes and can move on.


I hear ya Jammertime. I would say Joe "blew it" with that draft choice. I ain't mad at him though. He fell for the hype hook, line and sinker just like the rest of us. That 07 draft pick will make it all better. :fingerscr

We have several young players with the dreaded P word (potential), and I'd just like to see them reach that potential while in a Piston's jersey rather than someone else's.

So would I. Seems like that won't be a problem with Acker and Amir. They ain't got no problem with PT any way they can get it. I'm a little worried about J-Max long term though. Maybe he can be sucessful as a 4, but I'm hoping he works on his lateral movement and makes a splash at the 3. :fingerscr

jammertime
I hear ya Jammertime. I would say Joe "blew it" with that draft choice. I ain't mad at him though. He fell for the hype hook, line and sinker just like the rest of us. That 07 draft pick will make it all better. :fingerscr


Exactly. Don't rest on that pick guys. Thats the essential part of this trade and it does merit some patience. When I read about the Orlando GM talking about rebuilding, cutting payroll for future FA's and youth movements it historically has not translated into too many wins. Lets just hope we can catch them somewhere in the 6-10 range next season before ( and if ) they get decent again.

And if you want something to kill time inbetween we still have a team left that is not too bad about to start another post season run.