Probably should wait a few years for this but I am sure we have all thought about it at some time.

Can Lebron James be better than Michael Jordan?

Lebron is off to a faster start and his team is doing better than Jordans Bulls in his 1st few years. So what does Lebron have to do to overthrow Jordan as the best modern baller? Obviosly the 6 titles stand out but Jordan did not get his 1st until his 6th season. Still its going to be tough to match 2 three-peats.

It is all going to boil down to the post-season and if James can display the same clutch play. James is also going to have to break Jordans playoff 63 point record at some point as well.


Is it just me or does Lebron not seem as dominate as Jordan was? Their offensive numbers appear about on par. Both score over 30 and have high FG%. Jordan does have James on defense as Jordan was also the best defensive player at his position.


For now Lebran shows a lot of promise but he has a long way to go and many accomplishments to make. Question is can he do it with the Cavs or will he eventually need a larger market like Jordan had.

Lebran is a nicer guy if that means anything.

from all those "next Jordans" (Stackhouse, Hill, Harold Miner, Kobe), Lebron seems to deserves this consideration the most.
COnsidering defense, it has to be said, that the rules may have something to do with Lebron being not as good as Mike- as Pippen said after Kobe's 81pt explosion, he'd always fouled if the he'd played under todays rules. Maybe James would be a better defender under different rules.

Cross era comparisons are so tricky. But hey, I’m game.

All around, I think Lebron is the best player in the league right now. I also think it’s a different league than when MJ had his reign. Listen to Joe D. telling Sheed that today’s Pistons wouldn’t stand a chance against Joe’s, assuming they were playing by the “real man” rules. It’s not possible to know how Lebron would react to being clobbered time and again, but it certainly toughened up MJ. Aches and pains notwithstanding, Jordan was a better player for having learned to play more than the finesse game and frankly, for having to earn the respect of other “star” players (remember when the powers that be tried to freeze Jordan out of those early all star games, just to put him in his place). Lebron as far as I know hasn’t faced any of that, nor gotten the long term advantages Jordan took from those crucibles of fire.

For me, the biggest of those long term advantages was the competitive will Jordan drove himself with. Some pundit once compared Dan Majerle to Jordan, being so bold as to suggest at least some level of parity. Next time around MJ lit Danny boy up, and muttered as he walked off the floor “Thunder Dan, my a**”. Jordan never took a game off, never let up – probably didn’t even know how to. Lebron may learn that, Jordan certainly didn’t walk into the league with it, but the fire isn’t there yet.

The stats are deceiving given Lebron’s short career. But, MJ shot the ball better (except from three), and scored more. Lebron has a slight edge in boards and blocks, but MJ is slightly better in steals and had fewer turnovers. And when he was a mature player, MJ’s defense could run circles around Lebron today. Don’t know how / if Lebron’s defense will improve, but if I had to put down money, I’d say he will never be as good.

Offensively, defensively, and in pure competitive spirit, I’d give the nod to MJ every time. Jordan didn’t enter the league with that chip on his shoulder, but going through what he went through to get to that first championship sure put a big one there. And made him a pretty nasty person to be around. But, you’re not asking who you would like to have a cook-out with.

Jordan.

dba - True there was that was the chip Jordan had by having to earn respect. In 1985 when Jordan entered the league all the talk was about Magic/Bird. In his rookie season his team got the 86 Celtics. They had a losing record but still made the playoffs due to fewer teams in the league. Jordan put up 63 points in one game only to lose.

Lebran has had a cushy entrance so far and its not known how he will be in the post-season and if he has an equivalent desire to win.

To me its how clutch a player is in the big games. You have to be able to produce under pressure or all the stats in the world are only good for all-star consideration. Even with that its going to be hard to match Jordans defense and 6 titles.

I think I would have to classify James as possible Jordan aire instead of likely. Probable 2nd best.

When he 3-peats, he'll be halfway there.

I really think LeBron is a lot more similar to Magic than Jordan. The passing ability and desire to include teammates at an early age is the main reason.

I also agree that James will never match Jordan's defense.

Maybe he is the perfect hybrid between the two.

James will never be as good as Jordan, IMO. He doesn't have Jordan's drive, and as has been said, he can't dominate both ends of the court like MJ. His lateral quickness isn't good enough to be a great defender, but he's a smart guy and could make himself into a very solid defender.

A lot of things, he can develop in time--a less predictable midrange game, better shot selection, more interest in D. But I think LeBron will have to "settle" for being a Top 50 player.

Kobe is closer to Jordan than LeBron. He's ultra competitive, has a mean streak, is a dominating scorer and a very good defender.

LeBron reminds me of Dominique a little.

He's got no real post game, he hasn't shown an ability to make his teammates better (even with gaudy assist totals) and his defense is deplorable for a wannabe star.

Strip away the marketing and LeBron is not better than Dwyane Wade.

Kobe is closer to Jordan than LeBron. He's ultra competitive, has a mean streak, is a dominating scorer and a very good defender.
I think that's right. Kobe has a serious mean streak and is a tremendous all around player. Unfortunately for whatever team he's on, he doesn't define championships as the ultimate achievement, but rather personal glory. He'll never win another ring, or probably even come close.

Kobe is closer to Jordan than LeBron. He's ultra competitive, has a mean streak, is a dominating scorer and a very good defender.

Is Kobe closer to MJ because his game is more mature and his experiences deeper. Three years from now James will be a more complete player sporting better mid-range/post/defensive game and toughened leadership skills.

Like James, early on MJ primarily featured an attacking style, spawning the nick His-Airness. I credit the Bad Boys with forcing Jordan to improve his perimeter game and his body. Failure taught him to share the load.

James has helped carry a marginally better team (over last year) to a much improved playoff position. It will be interesting to see how he responds once his first dip of the beak into the playoffs ends.

LP, I dunno how you can say the team is only marginally better.

Sure they have played marginally better, but a lot of talent was added this season.

Damon Jones, Larry Hughes, Ronald Murray, Donyell Marshall, Alan Henderson.

We see BRON smile, drink Sprite and play video games with all his buddies, but I wonder if he works out as hard as a Kobe, if he is a gym rat like Jordan. If he is obsessed with being a winner. Maybe the size of his marketing machine and entourage will keep him from being able to devote himself exclusively to being the best he can on the court.

Btw, I hate Kobe but I think you misjudge him as not wanting to win. I think he wants to be a winner more than anything. If you had a gift to score, and your wingman was Smush Parker, your center Kwame Brown, your sixth man Devean George, wouldn't you take 35 shots a game? I know I would. The Lakers are one very good (not necessarily great) player away from being relevant again. Just one.

Ya, the Lakers suck.

And as his coach said, Kwame is a puss.

Here is the question, if you traded Kobe for Lebron and all else stayed the same, which team would improve?

LP, I dunno how you can say the team is only marginally better.

Sure they have played marginally better, but a lot of talent was added this season.

Damon Jones, Larry Hughes, Ronald Murray, Donyell Marshall, Alan Henderson.

Man you have much more respect for Henderson than I.
Jones has been sooo much less than management expected.
Marshall has been a minor upgrade over tractor Traylor.
Hughes has met expectations for half a season.
Murray is no more than last years Jeff McInnis, maybe less.
Z and Gooden have helped by being more efficient than last year.

I think James has for the most part been dragging them along.

Here is the question, if you traded Kobe for Lebron and all else stayed the same, which team would improve?

If the Cav`s had Kobe they would have won 5 - 7 more games this year. Lebron sure won a few, however, he did blow a few also by his missed FT`s and by not nailing game winning shots.

Kobe doesn`t miss many FT, and lives for game winning shots, knocking down most of them.

I agree with Micro that Lebron just doesn`t have that killer instinct right now, after a taste of the playoffs this year he may have it next season!

For me it`s difficult to compare the two after only this being Lebron`s 3rd year. Lebron`s defensive game is really lacking for someone so skilled offensively. If he committed himself to play defense he maybe could surpass MJ!. A big maybe there. someone as athletic as James he could become a very good defensive player, at 6-8 he could cover SG, SF, and some PF.

Kobe would also play solid defense and demand his teammates did the same.

Kobe with the Cav`s would be a better team than it is now, the Lakers would not have made the playoffs with Lebron.

Besides Odom, the Lakers don't have anybody.

As much as I don't want to say anything positive about Kobe, I think that the Cavs would have probably won more games if Kobe was out there instead of Lebron.

But it is not really a fair comparison right now. LeBron's unselfish personality should ultimately attrack better players and result in more wins.

I bet Lebron could have won a few titles if you gave him Shaq in his prime as a teammate.

Have to ask the question where was Kobe in his 3rd season? He started to make an impact averaging almost 20 points a game.

I know the Kobe/Jordan comparisons are there but Kobe's 23.3 career PPG average and .450% FG are so far falling way short of anything Jordan like. He has also proven that he cannot carry his team quit the same way Jordan could.

Has a player ever had the impact Lebran has had straight out of HS?

Here is the question, if you traded Kobe for Lebron and all else stayed the same, which team would improve?

Good way to think about it. The Cavs gets way better - Kobe needs a bunch of sharpshooters hanging around to pop threes and a decent center who will occasionally keep the defense honest. Cavs are easily second best in the east with Kobe.

Strip away the marketing and LeBron is not better than Dwyane Wade.

I'm not getting into this argument again.

(BTW LBJ is way better)

Throwing my hat in the ring, here.

I just watched the Lakers vs. Suns playoff game. The Mamba took every single shot for almost 4 minutes straight. In fact, I think he passed the ball maybe 3 times while I watched, and was holding his hands out to get it back immediately. Odom and Mihm scored a couple by passing to each other and not Mamba.

LBJ isn't very good at defense, but the Cavs vs. Wizards game showed me that Bron can get his and still pass the ball.

I think Kobe shot the Lakers outta the finals against Detriot, and will shoot the Lakers outta the playoffs this year.

Doesn't matter how good the cat is, most of the time, 5 guys playing together are going to be better.

Ladies and gentlemen I know this may be late but I've needed time to recollect after watching Game 1 of Cavs vs Wiz- I have only two words for you in a fairly consistent list:

King James
Triple-Double
Not hype
Lebron > Wade

Absolutely mesmerizing watching him play. I'm sure everyone was speculative after his first shot being an air ball but the kid really lived up to everything that they sai about him; for those who say he doesn't play D, not a great passer and simply isn't a proven winner yet - watch tonight's game for further proof. And remember: he's only going to get better.

ESPN's Brian Windhorst wrote an okay article here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/columns/story?id=2419196

As another indignation of how good this kid is getting: last time we were arguing about who was better: Wade or Lebron? Now he's being compared to Kobe and a legitimate MVP candidate. How sweet it'll be seeing this kid blossom to his full potential in a few years.

As another indignation of how good this kid is getting: last time we were arguing about who was better: Wade or Lebron? Now he's being compared to Kobe and a legitimate MVP candidate. How sweet it'll be seeing this kid blossom to his full potential in a few years.
I'm not sure that being compared to Kobe is really that big a step over being compared to DW. I know you don't like Wade, but he's a winner.

Even a homer can admit that if he was healthy in the ECF last year, Detroit might not have made the Finals. He's that important to a team.

I just can't get on the King James bandwagon. He's boring, his feature play is dunking on no one, and he's won a single playoff game which now make's him the best the NBA has to offer.

When he brings triple double performances against the Pistons in the playoffs, I will acquiesce.

The most striking thing here is his age. It took Kobe 3 years, T-mac 3 years, Wade went to college.
LJ has such of a huge jump start over other players and its hard to say what his potential will be. I think we already know
what Kobe and Wade are capable of.

The NBA does make it hard to like LJ. All the calls, hype. I have come to the conclusion that the NBA does not care if you like their players as long as you watch them.

Cavs vs Wiz

I am a LeBron fan, however, let`s not be to quick to crown him as of yet, especially after one playoff performance against the Wiz!

I am confident the Cav`s will get by the Wiz, then let`s see what he does against a defense like the Pistons.

The young man is extremely talented but until he gets a "Robin" he will never be "Batman"

Larry Hughes or Flip Murray is not Robin! Nor is Iglauskas.

Lets keep in mind Jordans 1st playoffs. His team was sub-500 around 32-36 wins going against the 86 Celtics. Bulls were swept but Jordan set a playoff record of 63 points in one of the losses which sent the game to overtime.

So far Lebran has started with a triple-double and a win. Not a bad start so far. Jordan was still in College at his age.

I should also point out that I have liked Lebran in Interviews. He seems intellegent and humble given his circumstances. Its all the hype and watching him get all the calls that is hard to like.

I concur - the reason why we judge individual games right now on Lebron is because they're so important to his speedy growth. It shouldn't matter that it's the Wizards - a team's opponent should not overshadow someone's personal accomplishment.

This is a kid who has millions of people, regardless if he wants or not, watching and judging his growth since day one. This kid has continually impressed me by living up to expectations and surpassing the doubts that people have had. (Look at the article) I never said I don't like Wade - the kid's great but he's definately got a better supporting cast than Lebron which has led to his success and wins in the past 2 seasons. Remember, Lebron has missed the last two seasons playoffs by one game or through tiebreakers.

Tonight's loss against the Wiz taught me another thing about Lebron's character and his potential to be a great leader and player. After a horrific night of shooting (7 for 25, 26 points) he was stated as saying: "I missed a lot of shots, layups that I usually make. They did a great job. I didn't come to play."

He's taking responsibility and if there's anyone who plays a sport knows - taking responsibility is one of the founding principles to getting better. Wade last year was an example of this in the first game of the Conference Finals against the Pistons when he had a bad night - he knew it was his fault and came back with a drive unmatched by any of our five on the floor. Another example of it is what Sheed does when he "Guaransheed"'s us a win (look: Pacers vs Pistons 2005 Semi Finals). That's what a champion has, and as much as Wade has it - we gotta see that Lebron has just as much.

This kid is here not just because he wants to be a champion - he wants to be a legend. Now all we can do is watch the next game and watch his growth again as he rebounds from a bad shooting night to hopefully be a hero once again. Game three ladies and gentlemen, a game to watch.

Ya, the Lakers suck.

And as his coach said, Kwame is a puss.

Here is the question, if you traded Kobe for Lebron and all else stayed the same, which team would improve?

Thats the wrong question to ask . Ask what if Lebran was replaced by the 3rd year version of Kobe?

Point being Lebran will get a lot better by the time he reaches Kobes age. My original point to this thread is not how good LJ is now, rather how good can he be? I am sure the Lakers would jump on that deal if it were presented.

My original point to this thread is not how good LJ is now, rather how good can he be?

One thing this thread points out is how difficult it is to guess / project / determine how good LBJ will be. And not for all the usual reasons, but because he is in a wildly different position from players from earlier generations.

- Look at the kid. Jordan never ended up with a body like his. Pretty much no player of Jordan's generation did. If you weren't around or didn't see players from ten or fifteen years ago up close and personal, take a look at ESPN Classics and see how skinny they were. We're not used to seeing players so well developed physically so young simply because no one has ever been that way before.

- Which raises the question, can a guard play a full career in the NBA at 240 pounds (LBJ) versus the 210-215 that Jordan played at. I don't think we have any idea how well he will hold up by looking at players from the past. Remember, Moses Malone played at 230 or so.

- Besides raw talent and better bodies, how do young players get so good so quickly? Simple exposure to the game must be a big part of it. I bet LBJ's first baby rattle was in the shape of a basketball. Certainly no one in the past had the constant exposure to the game, with tons of readily available stats and replays, not to mention games actually on TV. When Jordan grew up it was pretty hard to find a live NBA game on TV.

So we got players like LBJ, who not only end up with great basketball genes, but have also been working at conditioning and skills since elementary school graduation. (I wonder when Jordan picked up his first weight?) Players who have seen more of the game on TV than players of Jordan's generation probably ever saw in their careers.

Welcome to the future.

Tonight's loss against the Wiz taught me another thing about Lebron's character and his potential to be a great leader and player.

i don't necessarily disagree, but lebron also has a lot of practice and training in knowing the right thing to say.

in any case, the wiz even publicly conceded they are not that great defensively...but i'm glad to see they applied 'jordan rules' in pounding lebrong. you could see he was really really frustrated when they didn't let him get easy dunks or layups, almost like he felt entitled to them.

First line of today's MSNBC article about last night's Cavs/Wiz game...

"In first game since historic playoff debut, James..."

WTF?

Historic?

People would be getting healed by statues of the Jordan if he had had the kind of hype LBJ has.

Kobe is closer to Mike Tyson.

I think Lakers would be better. IMO James knows how to get his teammates more involved. Lamar Odum might play to his potential.

dba - young players are not getting good quickly - most of them are failing or take 2-3 years to come around.

LBJ is in a class by himself.

From today's New York Times:


Brendan Haywood had a message for LeBron James in the first quarter when he fouled him hard in the paint and put him in a headlock.

Haywood, the Washington Wizards' 7-foot center, was tired of looking at James's flashy highlights from Game 1 of the Eastern Conference playoffs, when James drove like a Hummer through the lane and amassed a triple-double for an easy victory.

James had scored 11 points when Haywood threw up a roadblock. Mission accomplished. James scored only 15 more points the rest of the game.

.... The Wizards took to heart suggestions that they did not have the physical presence to corral James. "What do you think we're going to do?" Haywood said. "Escort him down the lane?"

He added: "Last game, we didn't realize how strong he was. He's so strong, you can't foul him the way you do a regular guy. Because of the attention he gets and the strength that he possesses, you have to foul."

James went the next 13 minutes without a field goal. He shot 7 for 25 from the field and finished with a team-high 26 points. But the Wizards clearly rattled him.

I have nothing against Bron, but...

Finally! Someone is willing to deliver a hard foul that isn't crazy (ron). I miss the part of basketball. Not that I am advocating a bunch of thugs playing goon ball, but I really hate the layup line and the flop (unless it's really good) and the freethrow parade. Dull, man, dull. Make these cats earn thier paychecks. Lay some wood. No Free Chili.

I think Lakers would be better. IMO James knows how to get his teammates more involved. Lamar Odum might play to his potential.

Hard to play to your potential when Mamba won't give you the ball.

Here I go acting old again. There has never been a 21 year old as dominate in any sport like Lebron sans Wayne Gretzky. When LeBron is 25, he will have been in the league SEVEN years! I can not fathom how could he will be, but I can compare him to Moses Malone. Malone got mature physically and his talent merged with his girth, He became 3 time MVP...and Malone isnt HALF the player LeBron is. Guys, 31-7 and 7 at 21???!!!!! Jordan is the king, but here comes the truth!

I don't dislike LeBron James. It'd be hard to do, really. I just don't like the company he keeps.

Namely ESPN.

In the latest trough-wallowing orgy of excess, ESPN Classic will be replaying James' triple-double against the Wizards. Why wait until a long and storied career makes it worthwhile to look back at an otherwise trifling achievement? Our Bristol friends specialize in instant history, no waiting. YOU WILL WATCH. YOU WILL CONSUME. YOU WILL BELIEVE.

If that place burned to the ground, I'd gather the charred remains from the Executive Offices and use them as briquets for a barbecue.

What's wrong with that?

Think about what ESPN is doing: sure it may be a little premature to put LBJ in a "Classics" game but one of the main reasons why they have those games isn't just for you old timers to look back and reminisce; but to also set an example for the newer generation (guys like me).

The complaints about today's NBA is largely routed in its rise in popularity of the hip hop culture and it's "tough" and "gangster" attitude (ala Iverson, Garnett). No matter how much these players claim that they're not role models (Barkley), they are and will always undoubtly make an impact on the future attitudes of the NBA's future players. The media even depicts coaches (see Larry Brown) with praise for classy endings and smart fundamental basketball.

Enter LBJ the era: a truly ideal NBA specimen with a pass-first, team-player attitude. Something that hasn't been around from a superstar since the days of Magic (before my time). Can anyone really complain about this kid getting all this publicity? Everytime he's on the air he's as humble as anyone I know. Why not give him more air time?

With the rise of the popularity in basketball in North America; I'm glad. I'm glad that gone are the days of the AI's and the KG's. I'm glad the days of selfish basketball has dwindled and hurt the image of the sport to the point where the "American Dream Team" has become a shell of its former self. Enter the days of the Dwight Howard's and the LBJ's. Enter a new age of great team-play, individual effort and emphasis on leadership in the NBA.

Well, you and ESPN will be very happy together. I just don't see why a merely excellent performance in the first game of a pedestrian playoff series should get the same treatment as, say, Kobe Bryant's 81-point game. If they changed the name to ESPN Rerun or ESPN LeBron, sure. (And that will probably come in time.)

'Cause the last superstar who gathered a triple-double in his first playoff game was a fellow by the name of Magic Johnson. Classic? I believe so.

'Cause the last superstar who gathered a triple-double in his first playoff game was a fellow by the name of Magic Johnson. Classic? I believe so.
It's classic because of what followed his triple double (amazing career), not just that he had the triple double. LeBron hasn't done Jack but put up some gaudy regular season #s.

That's the issue some of us have with LeBron. He's being sold a little too hard and heavy as "the next great one". Read my article on the HOF. We got guys going without recognition and yet have to watch what happened last week as instant classic. Kinda stupid don't you think?

You gotta be careful rdang. This much player love will lead to conflicted feelings if/when the Cavs play the Pistons. We are here for you.

You gotta be careful rdang. This much player love will lead to conflicted feelings if/when the Cavs play the Pistons. We are here for you.

Haha - you make it sound like I'm gonna jump ship. When I first fell in love with basketball it was when Ben came over to Detroit in the first place. I was a free safety for my AAA football team so I loved the idea of defence first - hence Detroit being my favourite team.

And LBJ's last performance should weigh as much as his poor performance the night before. I'm not saying the kid right now he's playing his best - but he's playing damn well. I can see fault's in his game and more room for improvement; however, comparing him to the first year when I first saw him play - he's a more complete player now than he was back then. Every year he'll get better and its something to worry about - especially with Shaq dying down.

The Pistons 5 could have a problem in the future with LBJ and the Cavs more than the Heat IMO; but I've told everyone I know once, and I'll say it here again - our 5 will always be on top until they decide to retire or the team gets broken-up.

What I've realized over my years as a Pistons fan is that I'm not much for one to love an organization; in my tenure at university I've learnt from Baron (economic philosopher) that corporate loyalty is for "suckers and fools". Joe and the organization is great, but the 5 players (Ben, Sheed, Chauncey, Rip and Prince) are what I read, watch and cheer about night in and night out - not the organization.

I don't dislike LeBron James. It'd be hard to do, really. I just don't like the company he keeps.

Namely ESPN.

In the latest trough-wallowing orgy of excess, ESPN Classic will be replaying James' triple-double against the Wizards. Why wait until a long and storied career makes it worthwhile to look back at an otherwise trifling achievement? Our Bristol friends specialize in instant history, no waiting. YOU WILL WATCH. YOU WILL CONSUME. YOU WILL BELIEVE.

If that place burned to the ground, I'd gather the charred remains from the Executive Offices and use them as briquets for a barbecue.

Thats just the tip of the iseberg of all the LBJ hype going around. Admiditaly the league has made it hard to like him ( unless you are a Cavs fan ). Noone wants to see a 21yr punk get this kind of props when he has not earned it. And some the calls he gets when he plays your team are nothing short of the league cheating for the kidd.

Keep in mind its not Lebrans fault. He is not making statements or influencing the league in any way. He is just going out and playing. Problem is a lot of people are trying to make money off him.

I don't have a problem. He's not my hero. He's the hero of the next generation. When I watched MJ rise to the top I was a total MJ hater. He wasn't as good as Magic or Bird. Could he win. Could he make his teammates better. blah blah blah. Well hell, he did. Many times over.

So now we got this kid people call King James. Some people are looking for the hero to replace the one we lost. Other people are looking for a hero that belongs to them and not a bunch of older fans.

MJ cut a swath through the unkown territory of stardom...that kind of stardom that transcends basketball...people know where that path can go so they see this kid with all the promise AND they see the path that promise can take. ITs equal parts myth and money. C'mon...the next MJ? The next google? The next big thing. Its what we do. ITs like treating a commodity. You prospect it. Forecast it. Exploit it.

Is he better than MJ? The possibility is there that he could be. Who else can you talk about...kobe? puh-leeese.

Slippy - the possiblity exists that LBJ can be the greatest. My intent with this thread was can he be? Yougest player to do this and that...

He has a long way to go and may not ever be able to match what MJ did with the Bulls playing for the Cavs. Even if he does turn out to be better.

Anything can happen. He can blow out a knee in a few years, develope an attitude and stop working on his game. The second scenerio is not that far fetched considering all the NBA is willing to give him that he has not earned yet.