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Pistons at Bucks
Series 2-1 DET
Monday May 1st, 2006
8:30pm

The Bradley Center, Milwaukee, Wisconsin
TV: tv20 / NBATV
Radio: WDFN 1130 AM

BillLaimbeer (http://www.pistonsforum.com/members/143.html)'s Look at this series:

The Milwaukee Bucks will be the Pistons 1st round opponent this year. At 40-42, the Bucks will be the only team in the 2006 NBA playoffs with a losing record.

The Bucks started out the season pretty strong (17-11), but have had losing records in each of the last four months:

November 7-6
December 9-5
January 7-10
February 6-7
March 7-8
April 4-6

Milwaukee depends on Michael Redd (25.4 ppg) for over a quarter of their offense. On any given night, Redd can go off for 40+ points. In the 3 games Redd scored 40+ this year, however, the Bucks are 1-2. The shooting guard is the only position that Milwaukee holds the advantage over the Pistons (Rip Hamilton).

The Bucks have some youth at most key positions and that should prove to be the difference in this series. Point guard T.J. Ford is playing in his first full season. Ford averages 12.2 ppg and 6.6 assists per game (14th in the NBA). Edge: Detroit (Chauncey Billups)

At the small forward, Bobby Simmons is really in his 2nd full season as a starter. His numbers and experience are somewhat similar to Tayshuan Prince, but I'll give a slight edge to Detroit with Tay's all-around game.

The Pistons also have an advantage inside with the Wallace's matching up against rookie Andrew Bogut (good rebounding and FG% numbers) and Jamaal Magloire (3rd season as a starter in the NBA, 9.5 rebounds per game).

The bench production differs a little bit, as far as scoring goes. The Bucks have 8 guys scoring 8+ ppg. The Pistons have 7 guys scoring 7+ ppg. Detroit most likely will use an 8-man rotation with McDyess, Delk, and Hunter coming off the bench.
Defense: The Pistons rank 3rd in the NBA for points allowed (90.1). The Bucks rank 20th, giving up 99.8 ppg.

The Bucks have beaten just about every team in the NBA, including Detroit, Miami, New Jersey, San Antonio, Dallas and Phoenix. With a 40-42 record, the Bucks have lost to just about every team in the NBA, as well.

Season series:
Nov 26: Det 85, @Mil 76
Jan 25: @Det 106, Mil 102 (OT)
Mar 31: @Det 112, Mil 105
Apr 17: @Mil 113, Det 93

Detroit won the season series 3-1, although the Bucks win came in a game when Detroit was resting its starters (Sheed and Rip didn't even dress). The 3 Piston wins were all close games.

For a #1 vs. #8 matchup, these games will be more competitive than most people predict. My guess is the Pistons win the series 4-1. The difference will be Detroit's experience.

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~~

Ok we go that lopsided loss out of the way, time to focus and end this series. I would not let Redd beat me if I were Flip. Bell, Simmons, Kukoc, and TJ would have to beat me, not Redd.

The Pistons hardly ever double anyone, I think Redd has gotten our attention and at least deserves to have someone run at him from time to time to make him give the ball up.

Delk and Delfino should split Rip`s PT if he is unable to go. What if Delfino is the guy that could perhaps, slow Redd down? We will probably never know.

Extending this series past 5 games will make this playoff run more difficult than it has to be.

right before the game I'm going to flip coin as to what pistons team will show up. This is what they do. They can either play the most potent brand of team basketball or they can look like a CBA squad.

I think it hinges on whether Rip can really run and cut or not. He sure hasn't been the same player as he was in game 1. And if he can't, he hinges on whether Flip will make a move and try someone else out on Redd.

Time for a return to fundamentals. Pistons 82-74.

I want to see an absolute beat down. I'm passing up the Red Wings in an elimination game to see this, it better be entertaining for Pistons fans and absolutely embarassing for the Bucks.

Well... many people were complaining of boredom :bored:two games into the series and now people are upset:mad2: that the Pistons were blown out. Ironically, the series is still relatively boring. The Bucks could make things interesting with a vicory tonight. Do we really want that? Hell, NO!

The first round sucks for great teams. They are expected to blow out an inferior opponent. Problem is...that makes for a dull series. :yawn:If the series is close (see San Antonio vs. Sacramento) the fans don't label it interesting. Instead, they stress that the series will take too much out of their team or that they will not advance to the next round.

I see the Pistons playing hard tonight and winning a see-saw battle by 5 points. The Bucks will give it an all out effort but fall short. Game 5 is a blowout for Detroit.

I just want the first round to end as quickly as possible. Bring on the second round opponent. (If it's the Wiz, we will have our hands full and I think it will be a very exciting matchup).

I'm going to go to this game tonight just because we lost in game 3. So we better win--or else :)

I'm going to go to this game tonight just because we lost in game 3. So we better win--or else :)
Give'em hell Dave! We'll expect a recap from the arena tomorrow! If you take any pics, you can email them to me to put up, or I'll show you how to use www.imageshack.us

let's not do what san antonio just did and have this bucks team get confidence. give it to sheed because the bucks have no answer for him.

well i was out of town at CMU over the weekend watching the game, so i took the night off too, just like the pistons.

however, i'll be back tonight, AND in chat, so we should be okay!! lol

i think the pistons will have to grind this one out on the road but ultimately a win will break their backs. 102-94

just like lasy year in the first round we lost in game 3 because of a scoring barrage by the sixers, and then in Game 4 we needed clutch hoops to win. I think it will be the same 102-99 pistons.

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Don't get it? Read HERE (http://www.pistonsforum.com/detroit-pistons-general-discussion/2450-ultimate-playoff-weapon-no-coaching.html).

:frusty: i can not believe that I have to listen to such an important game for my beloved Pistons on NBA audio. I mean, how can I see for myself how RIP's ankle is? Someone posted that that ankle is taped 24/7. Yikes.

From where I sit, we have to win this game to provide the only opportunity for a significant rest for RIP's ankle. I'm biased, because he is and has been my favorite Piston, but I agree with some others that the health of RIP's ankle is critical for Round 2 and even more critically
for the finals in the East. If he can't defend and he can't get those
baskets coming off the screens ....sigh...I dunno..I think the outlook for the Championship is less than rosy even though I know we have many great players. I'm not saying RIP is the most important factor, but he is very important to the jigsaw puzzle of our team play supremacy.

I'll be listening to radio play-by-play while I pace around my living room trying to imagine it. While I'm not too worried about getting the win, I sure hope we see a return to some of what we need down the line: Dee-troit Baskeball Defense, RIP's speed defending and coming off the screens, and some discipline about throwing up those 3s. I'd like them to exhibit what they'll have to do in the Finals to redeem themselves from the last game somehow. I'd start sleeping alot better.

I'll check out this game time chat thing too. Maybe someone who is actually watching the game can be my eyes.

DEE-TROIT BASKETBALL! GO PISTONS!
Kimberly in Seattle

Kimberly, you betcha we will be your eyes. We'll be your ears too! You'll know every time a bead of sweat drips off of Chauncey's big bald head, everytime Sheed barks at a ref, and each time Tay shrugs at the bench.
ok, maybe not everything, but damn close!

GAME CHAT IS OPEN! (http://www.pistonsforum.com/news/853-pistonsforum-com-game-chat-debut.html)
(although the room won't fill until gametime as usual - 8:30)

GO PISTONS!

I'm lookin for Mo Evans to knock Redd on his azz tonight. :wacko: Put some bumps and bruises on im. He don't look like he's been in a war.

Nothing flagrant of course! :eyebrows:

Nice win tonight, but was something up with Ben again? He didn't play at all in the 4th quarter, I believe.

Something going on between Flip and Ben? How many minutes did he play in the 4th?

Dice claims that Ben wanted Dice to stay in because he was playing well.... per the post game interview.

What a game. The Chat was loaded with 27 (28?) at one point, and everyone was charged up.

Good 4th quarter win for the Pistons.

Rip is a warrior. Played like a champion on bad wheels.

Why does this team do this to us. I am so hyped right now I cant go to sleep, and the Clip`s Nugget`s game is boring compared to the Piston`s victory.

We needed a win like this and despite some comments in chat, I think it was a good move to go with Dyess down the stretch instead of Ben.

End this thing on Wednesday......pleeeeeeez:mad:

Good win tonight to offset bad performance by Dead Wings. Hope Ben shows up Wednesday and doesn't get an attitude because Flip sat him in the 4th. He just didn't have it tonight.

Line scores for Ben and Dice
Ben 27 mins 1 pt, 4 brds, 1 BS
Dice 28 mins 11pts, 1brds, 2 BS

Rip looked bad out there again and had the identical 4-14 shooting he had in the game 3. 9-10 FT shootin made up for it a little bit.

CB took over the game in the second half and would not let the Pistons lose. When it aint working you go to the FT line and he did for the tune of 16-16 shooting.

Tay got us going in the first qtr, but then disappeared until the the 4th. Sheed only had 2 pts at the half, but shook off the tech attitude and responded for 10 in the second half. Good second qtr contribution from Hunter too.

We still should be concerned about our defense as we have given up 98 points or more in 3 straight games and allowed them to shoot better than 55% in these two road games. They killed us in the Paint 50-26 and we almost ala the Wings, blew a 15 point lead.

Wednesday is a close out game and we are pretty good in those so I say administer the Palace defense early and often and send the fans home with something to cheer about. Cannot assume that this is an automatic W and hopefully CB, Sheed and Rip don't either.

We probably have until Tuesday before we have to play again, so hopefully Rips gets enough rest and and his shot returns!! Lets Go boyz!:fingerscr

Did u hear that skank reporter tell redd to just "bring it back home"....?What a loser! he didnt even have a question. It was the Kmart shoppers guide news that i think he was from!:eyebrows:

Pistons' D was catastrophic in the 3rd quarter tonight, but that's a lot better than the 4 quarters of awful D in Game 3. Chauncey stepped up REALLY big by taking it to Ford every time down after TJ was killing them for a while in the 3rd. Gut check win, time to end it now on Wednesday.

Tayshaun Prince was the only Piston who played well tonight. Chauncey made his free throws after letting Ford abuse him, Rip was horrible again, Sheed did some nice things that didn't show up on the stat sheet, and Ben and Flip seem to have major issues. Our franchise player has disappeared. Dice was on-and-off, Lindsey scored but looked bad doing it, and Delk did some nice things in limited minutes but was, like Lindsey and everyone else, lit up.

I don't like the direction this team is headed in.

BBen is gunna be pissed until we play D to start the game. With Dyess playing well we don't need him...yet.

I don't like the direction this team is headed in.
Refering to the championship?

:eyebrows: We're doooooooooooooomed.

The issue to me is Rip. If Rip were right, we take the Bucks with room to spare. We barely got this one. They were getting into us with their speed of Redd and Ford. Chaucncey and Sheed played a bit frenetic because they had to do more. Tay and Dyss were the steadying forces. Likewise, I too wonder what is up with the defense. We didn't board well or block shots, etc.

Our bench hit shots--thats good. And we should take it in 5. But we need Rip to get it back for the long haul.

We won the game, well done Pistons. Now onto game 5 to close the series out. Just wondering, was Rip not wearing his mask today or did i see wrong...

How about Lindsay, Delk, and Evans? Those guys all did exactly what we could have asked for tonight.

I'm not worried about our defense. The combination of difficult shots that the Bucks hit and the ticky tac fouls pump up the score. Other teams won't hit shots like Redd hits as efficiently. This guy is dangerous.

And look at the game Bogut had. Our bigs did something right.

Delk hit some shots. Lindsey hit some shots. Neither of them stopped anybody, and both of them looked god-awful trying to play point guard. Lindsey's found his jumpshot, but he's had only a few good defensive games all year long. Evans and Davis played less than 3 minutes, which pretty much = DNP from my point of view.

And do look at the game Bogut had - 3-5 from the field, 6 FTA, 6 rebounds, and a team-high 6 assists to one turnover. If he'd made more than one free throw I'd say he had a pretty solid all-around game.

What a game. The Chat was loaded with 27 (28?) at one point, and everyone was charged up.

Good 4th quarter win for the Pistons.

Rip is a warrior. Played like a champion on bad wheels.

Thanks you! Finally someone notices that Rip is playing like a warrior. Yea, he's kinda banged up right now, he's not really moving well, and he's shots aren't falling, but he's out there giving his all.


Tay got us going in the first qtr, but then disappeared until the the 4th.
:fingerscr

Poor Tay played about 46 minutes. He probably was tired.

We won the game, well done Pistons. Now onto game 5 to close the series out. Just wondering, was Rip not wearing his mask today or did i see wrong...

Rip's Game 4 Post Game remarks:
On taking his face mask off late in the game:
“I ditched everything: wrist band, rubber band, my mask. I’m just trying to get something going. Once I took my mask off at least I hit a shot.”

So yea, he took the mask off late in the 4th quarter.

Thats how we won a lot of reg season games - at the end. Down by 1 late 4th and the team pulls a 10pt win. Executing down the stretch.

Reading some comments here I am not sure what some want. You want perfection - you are not going to get perfection with this team so deal with it.

RIP's ankle seems to bother him more than anyone would say. But what about Ben? His rebounding has been pretty weak this series and we need him to crach the boards. Dyess shows will again.
I'm a little bit scared about the next round- RIP and BBen definetly have to improve.

Tayshaun Prince was the only Piston who played well tonight. Chauncey made his free throws after letting Ford abuse him, Rip was horrible again, Sheed did some nice things that didn't show up on the stat sheet, and Ben and Flip seem to have major issues. Our franchise player has disappeared. Dice was on-and-off, Lindsey scored but looked bad doing it, and Delk did some nice things in limited minutes but was, like Lindsey and everyone else, lit up.

I don't like the direction this team is headed in.

Ben isn't pissed he just let dice play since he was doing better than him.

Tayshaun Prince was the only Piston who played well tonight. Chauncey made his free throws after letting Ford abuse him, Rip was horrible again, Sheed did some nice things that didn't show up on the stat sheet, and Ben and Flip seem to have major issues. Our franchise player has disappeared. Dice was on-and-off, Lindsey scored but looked bad doing it, and Delk did some nice things in limited minutes but was, like Lindsey and everyone else, lit up.

I don't like the direction this team is headed in.

Billups played well when it counted the most. Prince didn't except for that hook shot. :ohwell:

Ben isn't pissed he just let dice play since he was doing better than him.

Who's coaching this team? Ben or Flip?

Who's coaching this team? Ben or Flip?
Flip Wallace. WallaceX3

Flip Wallace. WallaceX3

It's funny, I assumed that Ben sat at the end to avoid the hack-a-ben strategy and because Flip actually wanted five offensive players out there (especially important when Rip is not at his best). Normally, of course, Ben's defensive impact offsets the value of having Dyess in as a threat on offense. But Ben didn't seem into the game to me at all. He got his two early fouls, and you could see that got into his head. 4 rebounds, 1 block, 0 steals, 1 point. And, most telling of all, he was in full-on whiner mode.

But the game was what it was: we won. We're up 3 to 1. And we did what we needed to win that particular game. There's no reason to assume that they won't continue to do what they need to do to win the games yet to come.

I'm confident Ben will bounce back (hey, he's rested for a change), but if he doesn't have a great postseason this could get interesting. The Joe Dumars who evaluates playoff performance is very cold-blooded compared to the Joe D. everyone loves the rest of the year. Just ask Stack and Cliffy.

Thanks you! Finally someone notices that Rip is playing like a warrior. Yea, he's kinda banged up right now, he's not really moving well, and he's shots aren't falling, but he's out there giving his all.

And he played some good D against Redd when the game was hanging in the balance in the 4th quarter. It was frustrating that his shot wasn't falling, and he probably did take too many of them at a couple of times, but he also made a good adjustment at other times by getting to the hole and drawing fouls.

Looks like Ben was more frustrated with the refs than anything else last night. From the Free Press game wrap:

Just like in Game 3, Ben Wallace had two fouls midway through the first quarter. He played only 27 minutes Monday and decided to forego the final few minutes, telling Pistons coach Flip Saunders to allow Antonio McDyess (11 points, 11 rebounds) to finish out the game.

"(I had) four fouls in 27 minutes," said Wallace, who finished with one point and four rebounds. "They didn't need to put me out there and foul two more of them. It is what it is."

I wish Ben could have played through it better, but he really was getting the shaft from the refs. There was one possession where he got called for a touch foul on Magloire, and after the Bucks missed their next shot, Magloire put two hands on his back and SHOVED him out of the way for the stickback...with no call, of course.

We are giving up way too many points. The D really has to clamp down.

Delk hit some shots. Lindsey hit some shots. Neither of them stopped anybody, and both of them looked god-awful trying to play point guard. Lindsey's found his jumpshot, but he's had only a few good defensive games all year long. Evans and Davis played less than 3 minutes, which pretty much = DNP from my point of view.

And do look at the game Bogut had - 3-5 from the field, 6 FTA, 6 rebounds, and a team-high 6 assists to one turnover. If he'd made more than one free throw I'd say he had a pretty solid all-around game.

Delk and Hunter were both +7 in 7 minutes. That is what I mean by doing their job. Bogut was -4. 6 fouls and 7 points. 1 for 6 at the free throw line.

Here is what really jumps out at me though. In game 3, Tayshaun was a -31. In game 4, he was +15. That is a 46 point on the floor differential from one game to another. Redd had good games both times.

ben got hosed by the refs last night. he got one call early on one the first play of the game, and then he got dumped on every other time. thankfully dice is awesome, and our bench as a whole shot 11/15.

delk couldn't guard redd, but he did foul him several times and didn't allow him to take jumpshots. i think that was big in taking redd out of his game, and i commented earlier in the year when delk first joined the team that i loved how he didn't let guys get layups.

it's weird that we now have some offensive sparks off the bench instead of just defensive sparks. evans and delk have taken good shots, not forced anything, and shot very high percentages...in fact i think they're being underused.

the bench has come to play this series and have really stepped it up when some of our starters were off.

Looking into the possible future, the Mavs are taking care of business and with blowouts They look like a scary matchup with that offensive fire power.

+/- is almost completely meaningless. And I've thought the bench effort - aside from McDyess - has been lacking. Evans had a good Game 1 when they kept doubling off of his favorite spot but has been invisible since then (racking up points in Game 2 garbage time at a phenomenal rate notwithstanding), Delk hasn't gotten nearly enough shots for my liking, Delfino and particularly Dale Davis - DD being the Pistons' second-best interior defender, something that's been sorely needed - continue to rot on the bench, and I've thought that Lindsey Hunter has been uniformly terrible. He takes about 18 seconds to get the ball upcourt, then dribbles around and jacks up a 3. I'm glad that the worst-shooter-in-NBA-postseason-history is making a few, but he kills the offense, and his defense is nowhere to be found (hello Mo Williams!).

I agree with anakin about the Mavs, though. I've said since January that they're the best team in the NBA, and if the Spurs or Lakers don't take them out, we're in trouble. They're deeper, more explosive, and far better coached than the Pistons.

Monday's Worst
Bucks forward Andrew Bogut: The No. 1 overall pick struggled in the late going, missing free throws, throwing the ball away and fouling out. Finished with seven points at least.

Daily Dime

I don't know why I am seeing it so differently, but I really thought Lindsay has been awesome. He is exceeding my expectation by actually making a good % of his jumpers while playing great defense. The biggest run we went on last night was when he first came into the game.

It's about time you gave that 1 oz. of love to Mayhem, he can hit some shots. Scarey thought is BBen may not be right for Flips system. Could be a change in a couple years.

+/- is almost completely meaningless. And I've thought the bench effort - aside from McDyess - has been lacking. Evans had a good Game 1 when they kept doubling off of his favorite spot but has been invisible since then (racking up points in Game 2 garbage time at a phenomenal rate notwithstanding), Delk hasn't gotten nearly enough shots for my liking, Delfino and particularly Dale Davis - DD being the Pistons' second-best interior defender, something that's been sorely needed - continue to rot on the bench, and I've thought that Lindsey Hunter has been uniformly terrible. He takes about 18 seconds to get the ball upcourt, then dribbles around and jacks up a 3. I'm glad that the worst-shooter-in-NBA-postseason-history is making a few, but he kills the offense, and his defense is nowhere to be found (hello Mo Williams!).
I think your analysis is lousy.

Mo's scored 23 in 27 minutes, missing 3 shots and one ft in the process. He played mixed GT and with the starters in the Game 3 blowout yet was +11 (which you don't care about, because it frequently doesn't support your take, fair enough we all argue to the benefit of our points). So basically, he was a + player while the game was still in the balance. When most everyone else was not.

The problem with Mo is that he is a WYSIWYG player. What you see is what you get. He doesn't inspire optimism that he could come in and get a key stop, or drive the lane to draw an AND1. You'll get some corner spot up 3s, the ability to finish in transition with a better frequency than Chauncey and doesn't waste his opportunities at the line.

For a 9th man, what else do you want? In cold, limited minutes, makes shots, and hasn't turned over the ball in 4 games. Sure he's no Vince Carter, but he hasn't been an eyesore either.

Delfino is rotting because his shot is broke. Period. It's been broke all season. He can slash, but frequently doesn't. He can jumpshoot, but misses more than he makes. If his name was Darko, he'd inspire sonnets and haiku about legendary one handed dunk blowing ability.

Do I like one more than the other? Not really. I'm just happy Flip is playing the guy 8 minutes a game who produces and don't tell me that production is overrated because it isn't. That is why the Pistons brought in Flip. To put points on the board. To pressure teams at both ends of the court. To diversify the attack.

Your analysis of Hunter is equally flawed. LH gets the ball up court in a flash. Where he runs into trouble is that he cannot execute a P&R, and indecision frequently leads to him picking up the dribble which stagnates everything. His scoring has been a pleasant surprise that I think you are underrating. 7.8 PTS in 11.3 MPG? How can this not be considered efficient?

Pro-Rate both of their numbers to 30MPG , lose 15% for fatigue and most folks would still be impressed. Hell, Mo would be the league MVP.

Some folks see Delfino move well, handle the ball great and make a jumpshot and then take a leap in logic that he's capable of more. The guys who can't handle, can't dribble, are apparently playing no defense are the ones affecting the bottom line in a tangible and measurable way.

Speculation. It's not just for kids anymore.

I don't know how we made it to the playoffs if AHB's analysis is correct? I also disagree with most of his commentary. IMO Hunter, Evans and AM are doing a great job off the bench. I wish Hunter would had been in more in the fourth to guard Ford. He seems to be shooting the ball way better this year in the post season. As far as Dallas sweeping Memphis.....lets remember this is Memphis third straight year of being swept out of the first round.

Sounds like a little cooking there.

Flukes and gimmicks.

themicrowave, you'll note that Delfino was an afterthought. My main complaint was "particularly" about Dale Davis, who's probably better than the Ben Wallace we've seen so far in the playoffs, but can't get off the bench. I know it helps your rhetorical position to have a theme to play off of, but please don't presume that everything I say is about Delfino.
I'm just happy Flip is playing the guyI still think Mo Evans is a lousy basketball player, but he's played extremely well against Milwaukee this season, and I'm happy to see him get more minutes if only because Tayshaun can't handle 45 minutes a night.
8 minutes a game who produces He is not "producing" consistently. He's "produced" in one game of the series so far, unless you really care what he did in a shootout against Jermaine Jackson and Jiri Welsch when the Pistons were behind by 20.

As soon as the Pistons play against a coach better than Terry Stotts, Evans's corner three-ball is going to dry up. But against Milwaukee, I'd be thrilled if Evans could get 8 minutes instead of 3.
Your analysis of Hunter is equally flawed. LH gets the ball up court in a flash. No, he doesn't. He can barely dribble and takes forever to advance the ball under pressure. The shot clock is frequently in single digits by the time he is in a position to do anything (not counting his "fastbreak" attempts). His decision-making is flawed at best - and while I agree when you say his "indecision frequently leads to him picking up the dribble which stagnates everything", he does not face problems running pick-and-rolls. Indeed, the vast majority of his scoring comes off high screens, and he even gets the ball to McDyess on the pick-and-pop once in a while.His scoring has been a pleasant surprise that I think you are underrating. 7.8 PTS in 11.3 MPG? How can this not be considered efficient? Does it matter? He's a defensive specialist who's failing at his job. But even so, while his scoring is a nice bonus, it comes at the expense of running through the offense. Offensively, he's Carlos Arroyo minus the ballhanding and passing ability, and defensively - he's been Carlos Arroyo, stupid and-one fouls and all.

don't tell me that production is overrated because it isn't. Yes it is. Concern with "production" at the expense of playing well is an extremely dangerous position to take. As I said earlier, flukes and gimmicks abound, but they don't win in the long term.

There's no such thing as WYSIWYG, no matter how many stats the APBR lunatics can invent that pretend to quantify "WYG". There's only WYS, and everyone sees what he wants to.

I really don't want to argue about the relative merits of being a slappy or a perfectionist, so I'll close by saying that I respect your opinion. Everyone has the right to take his pick according to his prejudices.

for anyone interested in tempering the emotional ups and downs of playoff basketball, i thought i'd take a moment to share my current approach to the issue:

stay in the present. the game that matters is the one we are playing. winning that game is what matters. more points than the other team is enough offense. less points than we get is good enough defense. winning the series we are playing is what matters.

when and if cleveland, or washington come, when and if new jersey, or indiana, or miami or chicago come, when and if san antonio or sacramento or dallas or the clips or phx or lal come, that is when -- i tell myself -- i'll concern myself with whether we are scoring enough and keeping them from scoring enough points to beat those teams in each game as it comes and whether or not we need to make adjustments in order to score more points than we allow against those teams.

no doubt there are other approaches, and some might not even care for any approach. that's cool too.

but for now, as far as I'm concerned, we're up 3 to 1 (with two of the last three games at home) against the only team that, in the present, can stop us.

:)

I really haven't been a LHunter fan at all. I know that he has a role as a defensive specialist, but I always moan when he takes any shot.

Maybe that is why I am so impressed. Recently, every time I moan, the ball goes in. In the 2nd quarter, which was the only real time he got yesterday, he was 3-4 shooting and +5. If he was bringing the ball up so slow and a total failure on defense, then how did the Pistons manage to outscore the Bucks during this stint? His fellow teammates were Rip (0-1), Tay (0-1), Ben (0-1), and McDyess (1-2). Half way through, Delk checked in and was 2-2. It was ALL Lindsay and Delk. However they did it, I want them to keep doing it.

And Mo Evans... He only played for 2.1 minutes and took 1 shot. I like Delfino, but he doesn't seem to excel in 3 minutes bursts like Evans. There aren't many players capable of coming in cold and hitting shots.

All in all, I had a terrible feeling about the way that game was going and I'm glad we found a way to pull it out. The refs were calling too much (69 free throws in the game) and the Bucks were making too many contested shots.

stay in the present. the game that matters is the one we are playing. winning that game is what matters. more points than the other team is enough offense. less points than we get is good enough defense. winning the series we are playing is what matters.

i like the way you're thinking. also everyone should remember just how hard it is to win on the road in the playoffs, regardless of the team. the pistons are barely cracking .500 in the past 3 years.

hopefully everyone sees now how important homecourt advantage is :D

I really don't want to argue about the relative merits of being a slappy or a perfectionist, so I'll close by saying that I respect your opinion.
Too bad. I want to argue. :P

Flukes and gimmicks.
Shooting well all season is not a fluke or gimmick.

themicrowave, you'll note that Delfino was an afterthought
He should be. He's rounding into another disappointing draft pick. When a guy struggles, he needs minutes. When a guy comes in and produces in short minutes, he's a fluke. Double standard.

I still think Mo Evans is a lousy basketball player, but he's played extremely well against Milwaukee this season, and I'm happy to see him get more minutes if only because Tayshaun can't handle 45 minutes a night.
Yeah, lousy basketball player who has played extremely well this series. Certainly worthy of disdain.

He is not "producing" consistently. He's "produced" in one game of the series so far, unless you really care what he did in a shootout against Jermaine Jackson and Jiri Welsch when the Pistons were behind by 20.
8 points in 6-1/2 minutes, 2nd quarter of Game 2, when the Pistons put on the big rush to takeover the game. 3 Points in 3 1st Q minutes of game 3 to rest Tay, even +/-. NINTH MAN. So almost half his scoring (didn't bother to check the other 2 games) comes before the half. Well before Jackson and Welsch.

As soon as the Pistons play against a coach better than Terry Stotts, Evans's corner three-ball is going to dry up.
Really? He seemed to nail the one last night with a hand in his face.

Does it matter? He's a defensive specialist who's failing at his job. But even so, while his scoring is a nice bonus, it comes at the expense of running through the offense.
Defensive specialist. Like spot up shooter. Like Possession Receiver. A nice little stereotype the player has to conform because of a typically false perception that he is incapable of more. In an offensive series, Hunter is contributing offensively.

Yes it is. Concern with "production" at the expense of playing well is an extremely dangerous position to take. As I said earlier, flukes and gimmicks abound, but they don't win in the long term.
Can you explain how to produce at the expense of playing well? Is a 3 rebound per game player a better rebounder than a 10 rebound per game player? Is a 50% shooter worse than a 38% shooter? Am I wearing my boxer briefs backwards?

There's no such thing as WYSIWYG, no matter how many stats the APBR lunatics can invent that pretend to quantify "WYG". There's only WYS, and everyone sees what he wants to.
At the end of the day, you have to score more points to win. All opponents are not equal, but points scored is the great equalizer. When Mo hits more 3s than Rip or Tay in 1/6th the minutes, that's what I see, and what I get.

How soon we forget last year's Hunter who couldn't score a hoop, or lack of a SF option which necessitated playing small ball with a 3 guard lineup. The scoring woes of a bench that couldn't produce.

Rank
Here is the points scored per 100 possessions in the playoffs this year:
1. Detroit Pistons120.9
2.San Antonio Spurs119.3
3.Dallas Mavericks 116.5
4.Sacramento Kings 112.9
5.Milwaukee Bucks 111.8
6.Chicago Bulls 110.6
7.New Jersey Nets 109.6
8.Miami Heat 107.1
9.L.A. Lakers 106.6
10.Washington Wizards 106.5
11.Phoenix Suns 105.7
12.Indiana Pacers 104.1
12.L.A. Clippers 104.1
14.Cleveland Cavs 102.7
15.Memphis Grizzlies 101.2
16.Denver Nuggets 95.6

Surprise surprise, Flip's high scoring system has translated into the playoffs.

Delk hit some shots. Lindsey hit some shots. Neither of them stopped anybody, and both of them looked god-awful trying to play point guard. Lindsey's found his jumpshot, but he's had only a few good defensive games all year long. Evans and Davis played less than 3 minutes, which pretty much = DNP from my point of view.

And do look at the game Bogut had - 3-5 from the field, 6 FTA, 6 rebounds, and a team-high 6 assists to one turnover. If he'd made more than one free throw I'd say he had a pretty solid all-around game.........are u high?:nod:

Who's coaching this team? Ben or Flip?

No ben isn't coaching this team, but ben said that since dice is playing better keep him in and flip agreed.

More numbers. Drunk as I am, I'm coherent enough not to be impressed or interested, and neither twisting my words nor wildly exaggerating nor excessively using the "p-word" is going to force me to defend or attack any of the players. I'll stick with attacking the coach, and everything Flip Saunders does stinks of fluky gimmicks. He's a born loser, and that's my final word on the Pistons.

I'm not interested in individual wins or points if the team or player doesn't play well and conform to my philosophy of basketball. Larry Brown is in many ways a fool, but he was right on that count.

I think your analysis is lousy.

Mo's scored 23 in 27 minutes, missing 3 shots and one ft in the process. He played mixed GT and with the starters in the Game 3 blowout yet was +11 (which you don't care about, because it frequently doesn't support your take, fair enough we all argue to the benefit of our points). So basically, he was a + player while the game was still in the balance. When most everyone else was not.

The problem with Mo is that he is a WYSIWYG player. What you see is what you get. He doesn't inspire optimism that he could come in and get a key stop, or drive the lane to draw an AND1. You'll get some corner spot up 3s, the ability to finish in transition with a better frequency than Chauncey and doesn't waste his opportunities at the line.

For a 9th man, what else do you want? In cold, limited minutes, makes shots, and hasn't turned over the ball in 4 games. Sure he's no Vince Carter, but he hasn't been an eyesore either.

Delfino is rotting because his shot is broke. Period. It's been broke all season. He can slash, but frequently doesn't. He can jumpshoot, but misses more than he makes. If his name was Darko, he'd inspire sonnets and haiku about legendary one handed dunk blowing ability.

Do I like one more than the other? Not really. I'm just happy Flip is playing the guy 8 minutes a game who produces and don't tell me that production is overrated because it isn't. That is why the Pistons brought in Flip. To put points on the board. To pressure teams at both ends of the court. To diversify the attack.

Your analysis of Hunter is equally flawed. LH gets the ball up court in a flash. Where he runs into trouble is that he cannot execute a P&R, and indecision frequently leads to him picking up the dribble which stagnates everything. His scoring has been a pleasant surprise that I think you are underrating. 7.8 PTS in 11.3 MPG? How can this not be considered efficient?

Pro-Rate both of their numbers to 30MPG , lose 15% for fatigue and most folks would still be impressed. Hell, Mo would be the league MVP.

Some folks see Delfino move well, handle the ball great and make a jumpshot and then take a leap in logic that he's capable of more. The guys who can't handle, can't dribble, are apparently playing no defense are the ones affecting the bottom line in a tangible and measurable way.

Speculation. It's not just for kids anymore.Great rebuttal, big man. nothing burns me more than allowing posters who have no knowledge of the game. Its the difference between a person who goes ro see Lebron vs Kobe, instead of Cavs vs Lakers.....Also, 1988 Lakers won back to back to back seven games series in beating the Pistons that year. At this time of year, i dont care how we do it or if Flip's momma is coaching...just get'er done!!!!!

More numbers. Drunk as I am, I'm coherent enough not to be impressed or interested, and neither twisting my words nor wildly exaggerating nor excessively using the "p-word" is going to force me to defend or attack any of the players.
I like that you are always drunk.

I'll stick with attacking the coach, and everything Flip Saunders does stinks of fluky gimmicks. He's a born loser, and that's my final word on the Pistons.
I was a big doubter, but at one point, winning has to be enough.

I'm not interested in individual wins or points if the team or player doesn't play well and conform to my philosophy of basketball. Larry Brown is in many ways a fool, but he was right on that count.
I'll drink to that. But it takes a sum of individual excellence to add up to a win. You can't win without playing well. Even if it is only on one side of the ball.

Great rebuttal, big man. nothing burns me more than allowing posters who have no knowledge of the game. Its the difference between a person who goes ro see Lebron vs Kobe, instead of Cavs vs Lakers...
Thanks HQ, but AHB is straight. I just wanted to make my point about Evans and to a lesser extent, Hunter.

I'm not interested in individual wins or points if the team or player doesn't play well and conform to my philosophy of basketball. Larry Brown is in many ways a fool, but he was right on that count.

How would you define "well" in the quote above?

Thanks HQ, but AHB is straight. I just wanted to make my point about Evans and to a lesser extent, Hunter.Welll...I'm like Gemini today(see my hockey post)...i am definetly not myself. I've been listening to 1270 all dayon my laptop in my cable truck( i have wireless internet) an:frusty: d its been theraputic to the point of murder:doh: I need game 5 today!:laugh: AHB is cool...not..maybe

I forgot to put this one up.

http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/256-dead_deer.jpg

I like that you are always drunk. Well, I'm not drinking when my job requires me to actually do something. Luckily, that doesn't happen too often. I walk a fine line between being drunk enough to tolerate lawyers, sober enough to understand what everybody else is saying, and useful enough that they don't stop waiting for me to retire on my own. It's a hard life for an old man. :P

I was a big doubter, but at one point, winning has to be enough. Certainly, but regular season wins are for low rollers. Winning does breed trust, but a ring or two would go a long way toward establishing credibility. Flip's body of work isn't yet that impressive where his name is "enough".

This series is wearing on me, so go Pistons in game 5. (Good work with the last picture, themicrowave) Professor, I could give a couple of definitions for my "well" or the more famous "the right way", but the short ones would be essentially circular and the long ones would be pointless. I guess it comes down to "I know it when I see it." :ohwell:

The bench has been doing its job. Who would have expected consistent points from Hunter and Evans? Ben is in a funk. But he can come out of it. I still worry about Rip because there is an injury involved. If he were healthy, he could miss 20 in a row and I wouldn't worry. We will need a healthier Rip to go all the way. Don't have a clue as to whether that ankle is or will get better as the playoffs go on. Dallas may well be real this year. SA is showing weakness. We will found out soon.

Professor, I could give a couple of definitions for my "well" or the more famous "the right way", but the short ones would be essentially circular and the long ones would be pointless. I guess it comes down to "I know it when I see it." :ohwell:

Fair enough ahb, I imagine you're right.

ahb, don't start downpaying guys for that Game 3. Everyone played bad that game. lindsey, Tony, and especially maurice have produced great off the bench. Dice is always constant. As for Dale, and Delfino they won't get pt right now. Dale Davis's role is to play minutes on shaq so ben won't get worn out come finals time so that's when he'll start to play, and as for delfino I still have a little bit of hope that he'll be a "secret weapon" come further series:fingerscr. You're not really going to see the pistons shutdown the bucks because right now detroit is in the driver's seat, and milwaukee is fighting to live. The bucks will do anything to stay in it and they score.

More numbers. Drunk as I am, I'm coherent enough not to be impressed or interested, and neither twisting my words nor wildly exaggerating nor excessively using the "p-word" is going to force me to defend or attack any of the players. I'll stick with attacking the coach, and everything Flip Saunders does stinks of fluky gimmicks. He's a born loser, and that's my final word on the Pistons.

I'm not interested in individual wins or points if the team or player doesn't play well and conform to my philosophy of basketball. Larry Brown is in many ways a fool, but he was right on that count.

You're a fool. i don't know how much more you would expect from flip he's done a close to perfect job. Larry Brown is overrated. I used to think Phil jackson was overrated, but I was clearly wrong. Larry Brown has much more talent, and is playing in the weaker conference and look at the difference between the teams success. Bad charcter? Sure NYC has some bad chemistry, but look what phil jackson has done to the lakers this playoffs and kobe. This has nothing to do withb flip vs lb, but I'm showing you the difference betwen 2 coaches in the exact same position and how succesful one has been over the other. You expect too much out of people.

Dale Davis's role is to play minutes on shaq so ben won't get worn out come finals time so that's when he'll start to play There are many things Dale Davis could do for this team; guarding Shaquille O'Neal effectively is not one of them. He's the team's second-best post defender (after Sheed), third-best interior help defender (Sheed, Ben), and the second-best shotblocker and rebounder (arguably the best when Ben is having one of his disappearing acts).

He can handle Jamaal Magloire, Andrew Bogut, Z, Gooden, Haywood, Krstic, Collins, Mourning, Duncan, or almost any other post-up big the Pistons will face in the future, and in almost any situation a combination of DD and one of the offensive power forwards would help the team much more than the smallball/no defense Dice/Sheed frontcourt would.

But he never was all that great against Shaquille O'Neal, even when he was a great player in Indiana and Portland. Of course, now that Shaq is a slightly bigger Michael Sweetney, that may have changed - but I have absolutely no reason to believe that Flip would use him in that series. Flip hasn't given him the kiss of death yet by promising that he will be used, but most likely he's been forgotten.

I'm not interested in individual wins or points if the team or player doesn't play well and conform to my philosophy of basketball. Larry Brown is in many ways a fool, but he was right on that count.

:amen:...I'm sure the Knicks fans and all of New York agrees with you...:wacko:...NOT.

What matters most to the world is YOUR philosophy on what is good and right...screw a teams record.:der:

Dude...I'm missing the point of your ranting and rambling.:rant:I guess I'm slow. It's not like we are the Detroit Chauncy's. 4 All Stars...because we play team ball. Best record in the entire NBA. How can you be so critical of the coach? We are leading our first round playoff series by a score of 3 games to 1. What's the problem? What do you want?

There are many things Dale Davis could do for this team; guarding Shaquille O'Neal effectively is not one of them. He's the team's second-best post defender (after Sheed), third-best interior help defender (Sheed, Ben), and the second-best shotblocker and rebounder (arguably the best when Ben is having one of his disappearing acts).

He can handle Jamaal Magloire, Andrew Bogut, Z, Gooden, Haywood, Krstic, Collins, Mourning, Duncan, or almost any other post-up big the Pistons will face in the future, and in almost any situation a combination of DD and one of the offensive power forwards would help the team much more than the smallball/no defense Dice/Sheed frontcourt would.

But he never was all that great against Shaquille O'Neal, even when he was a great player in Indiana and Portland. Of course, now that Shaq is a slightly bigger Michael Sweetney, that may have changed - but I have absolutely no reason to believe that Flip would use him in that series. Flip hasn't given him the kiss of death yet by promising that he will be used, but most likely he's been forgotten.

At this point of his career dale doesn't really care much about the minutes. He's doing what's best for the team and that is be fully rested to stop shaq and to help ben stay fresh.