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Series 2-1 Detroit
Monday May 15th, 2006
7:00 PM

Da "Q", Quicken Loans Arena, Cleveland, Ohio
Built 1994, Capacity 20,562

TV: TNT
Radio: WDFN 1130 AM

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~~

Alrighty now. That game 3 blues is behind us. Time to get back to business, right?

Another guarantee by Sheed, and I am very curious to see how he produces in game 4. After watching game 3, I see the Cav`s frequently ran someone at him when he was down on the block. That will probably continue in Game 4. Sheed must know where the double is coming from and act accordingly by passing or making a quick move to the basket if possible.

I look for Sheed to make a difference on the defensive end in this game.

Tay, Rip, and even Ben must not stand around and watch when Sheed is being doubled, a quick cut to the basket would be sufficient.

Should be a close game with the Pistons pulling it out 87-84.

TNT's scrolling news bar during the Suns/Clippers game just now said that Larry Hughes will not be playing in Game 4, as I think was probably expected.

TNT's scrolling news bar during the Suns/Clippers game just now said that Larry Hughes will not be playing in Game 4, as I think was probably expected.
We don't stand a chance if Hughes doesn't play.

btw did anyone notice the time for game 5?? wednesday at the palace at 10:30 PM !??!?! WTF!!

We don't stand a chance if Hughes doesn't play.

The Lord be with Hughes and his family, but with him shooting 8-25, we need him in the line up to give the Pistons more rebounds to score on the other end.:eyebrows: Him missing from the line up throws another player in the cavs lineup that may even shoot better.

Winning game 4 isn't exactly urgent, but the Pistons don't have the luxury of losing this one any longer. The Heat are about to put away the Nets. Detroit doesn't want to mess with Cleveland too long or they will be up against a Miami team that is well rested and ready to steal the first game from the Pistons.

Winning game 4 isn't exactly urgent, but the Pistons don't have the luxury of losing this one any longer. The Heat are about to put away the Nets. Detroit doesn't want to mess with Cleveland too long or they will be up against a Miami team that is well rested and ready to steal the first game from the Pistons.

On the contrary Darth, I believe it is urgent. Yeah we can win games 5 and 6, and definitely 7 if it happens to go that far, but why sweat it? This series needs to be done by Wednesday as we don't want Shaq or ZO getting any rest while we are still playing on Friday. Plus the more rope you give the Cavs, the more confidence they get and the unforced possibilities can happen, like Rip or CB going down with a severe injury in game 5 or 6 that turns the series in the Cavs favor:doh:. My theory is that all games are urgent until you have 3 W's and your opponent has only 0 or 1.

On the contrary Darth, I believe it is urgent. Yeah we can win games 5 and 6, and definitely 7 if it happens to go that far, but why sweat it? This series needs to be done by Wednesday as we don't want Shaq or ZO getting any rest while we are still playing on Friday. Plus the more rope you give the Cavs, the more confidence they get and the unforced possibilities can happen, like Rip or CB going down with a severe injury in game 5 or 6 that turns the series in the Cavs favor:doh:. My theory is that all games are urgent until you have 3 W's and your opponent has only 0 or 1.

Yep, I agree with you. That's what I was saying, but I'll label it important. I'm saving urgent for game 5 if we lose the important game prior to it. :D

btw did anyone notice the time for game 5?? wednesday at the palace at 10:30 PM !??!?! WTF!!

NBA.com has it listed as a 7 p.m. tip, W'hog.

Here's an interesting take based off of Mike Greenfield's NBA team rankings.

http://teamrankings.com/nba/7powerratings.php3

What stands out to me, when I look at that is probably what drives all Pistons fans nuts, but also should keep us from being worried at this point:

the pistons "sliding scale" of success (proportional to the quality of the competition): they are 8-2 against the top 5 (which is better than any other team by quite a bit); they are 12-5 against teams ranked 6-10 (better than anyone outside of SA); they are 10-7 against teams ranked 11-16 (worst among the top five, and tied for worst among the top 10).

This is obviously a team that brings it when it needs to and often doesn't when it doesn't. We can speculate that this is a dangerous game to play, and that perhaps when they do need to they won't be able to. But -- though I'm aware that it's not necessarily the case -- I believe their record this year suggests otherwise.

The Pistons will be fine, in other words... and we won't. :)

NBA.com has it listed as a 7 p.m. tip, W'hog.

hrmm interesting. the TV schedule i saw had it 10:30 and SA/Dallas as the early game. hopefully it's the earlier game!!

oh and good perspective, professor. they bring it when they need to, but yah it can be a dangerous game to play.

'GUARANSHEED' game. What else to expect other than a 'W'?

I'm a little worried about our play during close games in the 4th quarter esp against teams that have an all star guard/ forward (Wade, LBJ, Kobe, TMac, etc). We seem to have problem running plays offensively. Even with 5-10 point lead, we seem to run a few plays (esp pick and roll between CB and Sheed) and hope for 3s.

Defensively, our starters seems to be very tired and that's when these players lit off. I agreed that our starters should finished the game, not the bench but if that's the case, Flip should start resting the starters early in the 3rd quarter so that the starters would be fresher in the 4th instead of the starters playing the entire 2nd half.

Big game for Sheed, of course, CB and Rip tonight. Let's Go Pistons!!!

GO DEFENSE, DETROIT BASKETBALL!!!

Sheed and his boys are showing almost a total disrespect for Cleveland. Dissing them like they are some sort of step-child or something. Pooh-poohing any notion that Cleveland has a snowballs chance in hell of defeating them. They better back up all that smack or they are going to look very foolish.

Sheed, I sure hope you can back up your trash talk better than Linwood and Slippy did in fantasy basketball. :boink: :laugh:


Pistons win a close one tonight. :fingerscr

We need to end this series as soon as poosible.

Not only do we not want to give cleveland any false hope, Miami is lurking out there, and even made the comment that they have an important date with the Pistons.

On that note, we also do not want to give the Heat any hope or momentum whatsoever that they can beat the Pistons who had a difficult time putting away a number 4 seed.http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/icons/icon5.gif

Sheed and his boys are showing almost a total disrespect for Cleveland. Dissing them like they are some sort of step-child or something. Pooh-poohing any notion that Cleveland has a snowballs chance in hell of defeating them. They better back up all that smack or they are going to look very foolish.

Sheed, I sure hope you can back up your trash talk better than Linwood and Slippy did in fantasy basketball. :boink: :laugh:


Pistons win a close one tonight. :fingerscr

You may have one this year, but next year I will become, "The Annointed One".

King Linwood.

Master GM.

As far as Sheed goes, I love it when he talks trash. I don't give the Cavs any respect either. They get plenty of that from the refs and the announcers. I hope the Pistons slap them silly tonight. I hope Sheed scores 18 on 3's.

You may have one this year, but next year I will become, "The Annointed One".

King Linwood.

Master GM.

As far as Sheed goes, I love it when he talks trash. I don't give the Cavs any respect either. They get plenty of that from the refs and the announcers. I hope the Pistons slap them silly tonight. I hope Sheed scores 18 on 3's.

:pound:You kill me, King Linwood.

I love Sheed's trash too. He's my fave.

No complaints about last games 4th 25/100 officiating???

Dang, Wood and Slip, sounds like Tater made you gag on some tater soup!
Looks like low scoring again.
Ps 80
Brons 77

No complaints about last games 4th 25/100 officiating???

No question the calls were tilted, but we played over that. My issue was that we instituted our "Red Sea" defensive scheme through most of the 3rd and 4th Qtr. That hurt us more than anything and what bothers me most is that every interview contains nothing but commentary on offense....."too many turnover, missed easy shots...blah blah, nothing on top of nothing about breaking up that Cedar Point line of Cavs going to the bucket all night.

Low, I think that the Pistons couldn't get enough calls to win a tight game at the FT line. It certainly did not help that they kept shooting out of focus jumpers either.

If you look at the FT variance from the previous games, it's very obvious that the Pistons were not aggressive offensively and put no pressure on the Cavs from a foul count perspective.

Was the officiating horrendous? Hell ya. Good teams can overcome that. The refs always end up benefitting the aggressor. Case in point, when LeBron raised his game and the Pistons folded down the stretch, there was no way the refs were going to bail the Pistons out.

Love Sheed, but he's gotta play through all that instead of turtling.

i agree with micro on this... it's clear with this team (and maybe it's just true of the game in general) that offense and defense work symbiotically and i for one wouldn't feel comfortable asserting priority to one or the other. on the one hand, i can see that stops create run-outs and easier plays on offense that help the players not only get easy baskets but also get a scoring rhythm going. but on the other hand, i can also see that executing the offense so as to get easy shots or trips to the foul line help prevent easy run outs by the other team, allow the defense to set up, etc..

that's why i think aggressiveness (or intensity, if you prefer) is the key term that ought to be driving the play on both ends. and in fact, if it's there on one end, it is more likely to be there (or to come soon enough on the other). i think that's one thing that flip said early in the season that did make sense to me: challenging his players to be as intense on offense as they always had been on defense. and offensive intensity, in my opinion, doesn't necessarily mean always going to the bucket, though it certainly includes that when the opening is there; it also means cutting hard, making crisp accurate passes, being mentally aware of situation, clock, and where everyone is on the floor, setting firm picks, getting your legs under you and squaring up on your jump shots -- wherever they are from, and following shots (if that's your job).

i won't dismiss a certain lebron favoritism on the part of the officials, but i do believe that such star-favoritism will be outweighed in an officials mind by the intensity and aggressiveness of a team on both ends of the floor. indeed, though it border on sacrilege here to say so, i think lebron tends to get the calls when he ups his offensive intensity (which in his case means not settling for two dribbles and a fade away jumper).

anyway, intensity of course, being a psychological quality, can be notoriously elusive and fleeting, especially when one is playing an opponent against which one has experienced seemingly easy success. the ideal would be for our guys to have the psychological resources to bring intensity every game for the whole game. that would be cool. it would also make them an exception to the vast majority of the human beings i have known, whether athletes or not. moreoever, i think intensity, like any positive quality, needs to exist in a balance with its counterpart: coolness, for lack of a better word. they aren't opposite, they actually go together. sometimes, maybe the pistons let their coolness (which seems to come naturally to at least four of the starting five -- excepting ben, maybe) veer into complacency. this is a lot of rambling just to say i feel like i can really sympathize with the difficulty of maintaining intensity and coolness in a productive tension. and that clearly, they need tonight to ratchet up their intensity -- on BOTH ends of the court -- without letting it become "pressing".

i'm happy sheed made the quote simply because it feels like tonight the playoffs are starting. i've gone to 4 of 5 home games at the palace and the wins are so easy that it just feels like regular season blowouts with nothing to get too excited over.

anyone else feel that way? like almost a letdown of excitement for the playoffs to this point?

Here's an interesting take based off of Mike Greenfield's NBA team rankings.

http://teamrankings.com/nba/7powerratings.php3

What stands out to me, when I look at that is probably what drives all Pistons fans nuts, but also should keep us from being worried at this point:

the pistons "sliding scale" of success (proportional to the quality of the competition): they are 8-2 against the top 5 (which is better than any other team by quite a bit); they are 12-5 against teams ranked 6-10 (better than anyone outside of SA); they are 10-7 against teams ranked 11-16 (worst among the top five, and tied for worst among the top 10).

This is obviously a team that brings it when it needs to and often doesn't when it doesn't. We can speculate that this is a dangerous game to play, and that perhaps when they do need to they won't be able to. But -- though I'm aware that it's not necessarily the case -- I believe their record this year suggests otherwise.

The Pistons will be fine, in other words... and we won't. :)

Those are some really interesting numbers, Professor. You know an analogy that just came to mind for me, which I had never thought of before, but will make sense to long-time tennis fans: Pete Sampras, in his prime, had a similar dynamic in terms of the rankings of his opponents in the big tournaments, including the 4 Grand Slams. When he would lose in one of those tournaments, it was usually to some guy rated quite low, like 50-100 or something. But his record against other top 5/top 10 players in the biggest matches was spectacular. There was a several-year run where if he got to the quarters or farther in a Grand Slam and played other top-rated guys (as one usually will that deep into those tournaments), he was essentially unbeatable. If anyone was going to beat him in one of those tournaments, it was almost always going to have to be some much lower-rated guy upsetting him in the 3rd or 4th round.

Warts, let's lose one more game and see how many jump off the bridge!
I remember Pete S, the only thing that could beat him was shin splints.

Sheed is gonna come out determined to stick his boot in the Cavs posteriors.The team will have his back.Pistons gotta win by 10+ and make the crap calls not a factor.

Any body counting sheeds techs.

I think he has 2. He really held off last game. You could tell that he is rationing them and doesn't want to spend them all in one series.

CHAT is OPEN!

I hate losses. Losing is a scary thing. A loss is like a mysterious virus. You never quite know when or how you contracted whatever it was that turned things upside down. No matter what your course of remedy you never feel back to normal till it's long gone.

The most frightening thing is once it appears you're never sure if it is the 24 hour type or a precursor to pneumonia.

Come on Stones, a game 4 win is our penicillin.

LET"S SHAKE THIS THING.

To this point, Flip is being severly outcoached by Mike Brown. Hopefully Flip has counter adjustments, but ever since Mike Brown has made the following lineup a big part of the rotation they have been killing us...

PG- Damon Jones
SG- Flip Murray (or Hughes)
SF- Lebron
PF- Marshall
C- Varejao

Unlike Snow or Hughes, Damon Jones has to be covered on the perimeter, so Billups/Rip can't help off them. Marshall takes Sheed out of the paint and stops him from help defending on Lebron and rotating to Varejao/Z when Ben goes to help on Lebron. Varejao is the kicker. He has killed us on Ben's double teams every single time he steps on the floor.

Mo Evans had one of his top 5 games of the season, Flip, but he's not a power forward, and he doesn't intimidate in the paint. Remember DD? Anyone?

Whichever way this game turns out, this was an absolutely brilliant performance from Rip Hamilton. Ben Wallace played huge at times as well.

Sheed was clearly affected by the injury, and the "MVP" let Eric Snow get into his head as usual.

There doesn't seem to be any kind of gameplan. The Pistons just freelance.

So much for Guaransheed. They are chanting it now. Wonderful.

:hug::rockon::lalala:
I love you, Flip.

Well, I'm definitely concerned now. The Pistons showed no heart and no brains at all in the 4th quarter. Really, really bad loss. Cleveland wasn't playing all that well either, certainly not Lebron, missing shots and bricking FTs all over the place. But the Pistons gave it to them anyway.

This is where LB would have a good set ready for the last 5 posesions. Flip's brilliant play? Let my two non-knowing-how to penetrate -guards just go one on one! The coach and a weakazz talkin power Forward lost this game for us! Sheed better avg 22PPG from here out , but in my mind he lost a lot of fans and he may have lost a little of himself.

The players have gotten arrogant and think they are better than they really are. You don't win games by just showing up!!:frusty:

Maybe this loss and being 2-2 will straighten these guys out. They created a series when they could have had the last game. The Cavs would have been deflated being 3 down. In the playoffs every game counts and the Pistons pissed away Game 3.

Kind of a scary loss if you ask me. James shoots just 8 of 23 and the Pistons still can't win. Chauncey was flat-out horrible. I'm guessing his head has been reduced to its normal, preseason size. Tay was good in stretches. Rip was the only warrior although Ben played hard as usual. Bench letting the team down big time. They produced seven points tonight. They have 16 in the last two games. I felt Flip was outcoached. Brown had Gooden, Z and Marshell on the bench so he must have known the right guys to have in there. He went small and they beat us. Time to make adjustments for Game 5. I hope Sheed is OK. Detroit will need him. They have to get back to the great ball movement they had early on during the season. Right now, they are moving backward. And there's no way Rip is gonna get that foul at the end. No way. If that's what Detroit was hoping for, you gotta be kidding me. The Pistons' strength in these playoffs have been the open 3. That's what they should have tried. If you're hoping to drive to the hoop and get a foul, you're dreaming. Most refs swallow the whistle with 10 seconds to play. If that was Flip's grand plan, he's outta his league.

Also, some fans may have seen this as biased on the referees' part. I don't think so. Cleveland was whistled for more fouls. Detroit went to the line more than Cleveland did. The NBA conspiracy thing doesn't explain tonight's loss in my mind.

Sickening. Fire Flip. I don't care about the championship this year. Trade Chauncey and Rasheed. They're overrated. H***, trade the whole team for a second round pick. . Wait. I'm overreacting-- Wait! I'm not! F*** the refs. Did you see that shi*?

GREAT GAME!!!

Oh wait a second. No it wasn't. Actually, it was a pathetic performance from a "championship caliber" team. A "4th Quarter" team. A team that "closes out games". "Unflappable", blah blah blah.

My game 5 wish list:

- Bring back LB
- Get Sheet a muzzel
- play like its game 7

I just hope we see more of Mo in crunchtime, that was an awe inspiring performance and I for one will never forget it.

Chauncey was flat-out horrible. I'm guessing his head has been reduced to its normal, preseason size.
Thank you for making me laugh. I truly consider you a brother.

darko would have brung it off the bench when sheed got injured. but hey at least we get to resign the dpoy who's getting dogged by 2nd round pick verejao. flip needs to activate jmax. jmax isn't scared to give lebron a hard foul they are going to call it anyway.

Chauncey was flat-out horrible. I'm guessing his head has been reduced to its normal, preseason size.

Didn't catch that line until Micro quoted it. Funny and true!

I'm not exactly pining for the days of being 2-1 down to Indy in the 2nd round, like last year...under his Larryness.

Kind of a scary loss if you ask me. James shoots just 8 of 23 and the Pistons still can't win. Chauncey was flat-out horrible. I'm guessing his head has been reduced to its normal, preseason size. Tay was good in stretches. Rip was the only warrior although Ben played hard as usual. Bench letting the team down big time. They produced seven points tonight. They have 16 in the last two games. I felt Flip was outcoached. Brown had Gooden, Z and Marshell on the bench so he must have known the right guys to have in there. He went small and they beat us. Time to make adjustments for Game 5. I hope Sheed is OK. Detroit will need him. They have to get back to the great ball movement they had early on during the season. Right now, they are moving backward. And there's no way Rip is gonna get that foul at the end. No way. If that's what Detroit was hoping for, you gotta be kidding me. The Pistons' strength in these playoffs have been the open 3. That's what they should have tried. If you're hoping to drive to the hoop and get a foul, you're dreaming. Most refs swallow the whistle with 10 seconds to play. If that was Flip's grand plan, he's outta his league.

Also, some fans may have seen this as biased on the referees' part. I don't think so. Cleveland was whistled for more fouls. Detroit went to the line more than Cleveland did. The NBA conspiracy thing doesn't explain tonight's loss in my mind.we dont need sheed...FHIm!!!!

I just hope we see more of Mo in crunchtime, that was an awe inspiring performance and I for one will never forget it.
Stop being such a wet blanket. I was under the impression you knew your ball Low. You gunna bring more to the wine and cheese party than just crying for your sweet Delfino?

Come strong with some anger and direct it at a more significant target. I can take the Pistons loss, but this weak stuff from you is really disappointing. Mo Mo Mo. If you think Mo lost the game, it's time to check your 357 player goggles in for re-polishing.

You got boo to say about Chauncey? Sheed? Dice? The rotations (besides Mo)? The refereeing?

Btw, Mo didn't play well. But he defended better than Chauncey and he scored better than Dice.

BRING SOME GAME!

Sickening. Fire Flip. I don't care about the championship this year. Trade Chauncey and Rasheed. They're overrated. H***, trade the whole team for a second round pick. . Wait. I'm overreacting-- Wait! I'm not! F*** the refs. Did you see that shi*?Refs had nuthin to do with the last 3 minutes of our offense. We choked and we must deal with that!

darko would have brung it off the bench when sheed got injured. but hey at least we get to resign the dpoy who's getting dogged by 2nd round pick verejao. flip needs to activate jmax. jmax isn't scared to give lebron a hard foul they are going to call it anyway.

If big mouth sheed is still gimpy then I say activate JMAx and just play him. It's a home game and you should win it anyway....I hope

Refs had nuthin to do with the last 3 minutes of our offense. We choked and we must deal with that!
We choked away the entire start of the 4th. 2 made baskets in 8 minutes and we win this one.

We choked away the entire start of the 4th. 2 made baskets in 8 minutes and we win this one.word!!!!.....well, the lakers won the title in 88 by winning 4-3, 4-3 and 4-3 vs us. I guess we can chill a lil bit!

Thank you for making me laugh. I truly consider you a brother.

Actually, you turned me on to C-Note's "big headedness." I give you all the credit for that one-liner, bro. :nod:

Refs had nuthin to do with the last 3 minutes of our offense. We choked and we must deal with that!

We have choked in the 4th quarter of the last 3 games. La Bron has more 4th quarter basketball sense than CB, Flip etc...:frusty:

Dale Davis needs to play. Especially with Mc_yess doing his best to give away games and Flip thinking Evans is a power forward.

we had 12 assists and 14 TO's....wow!!!!!!!!!When did we do that all year. We choked! Even Rip's last two shots!

Dale Davis needs to play. Especially with Mc_yess doing his best to give away games and Flip thinking Evans is a power forward.

sounds like lb all over again.

i'm glad we traded away our young big man so flip wouldn't have to look mean by playing mo evans over him. mcdyess and arroyo would be lighting cleveland up. oh yeah we traded him away too.

jmax and fino need to play.

Everything's cool. I had the Pistons in six in my bracket. :laugh:

Dale Davis needs to play.
I'll buy this. I'm surprised we didnt see Double D down the stretch for rebounding in a tight game. He would have brooked no punkedness with Varajao.

Btw, Flip is on the radio and he sounds rattled. Now he is praising LeBron. He's saying LeBron should have been the MVP. 2 weeks ago it was Chauncey.

It's all lost. The only hope we have is to win Game 5 and then burn the canoes in Cleveland. No leaving without a win!

I hope somebody in the Detroit media has the balls to ask Sheed if he'll be enjoying his return trip to Quicken Loans Arena. What a dumb name for an arena.

Stop being such a wet blanket. I was under the impression you knew your ball Low. You gunna bring more to the wine and cheese party than just crying for your sweet Delfino?

Come strong with some anger and direct it at a more significant target. I can take the Pistons loss, but this weak stuff from you is really disappointing. Mo Mo Mo. If you think Mo lost the game, it's time to check your 357 player goggles in for re-polishing.

You got boo to say about Chauncey? Sheed? Dice? The rotations (besides Mo)? The refereeing?

Btw, Mo didn't play well. But he defended better than Chauncey and he scored better than Dice.

BRING SOME GAME!

First off, Flip did exactly the opposite of what he needed to do for this game. FOCUS ON DEFENSE. Then, he plays Mo in crunch time, f*ck that, I'll take my chances with a struggling Dice than with a crappy Evans. I don't even care if Delfino ever gets off the bench. JUST STOP SHOVING EVANS DOWN MY THROAT. It's NOT working and I'm sick of it! The guys has one good game and 3 sh*tty ones and he's considered a SUCCESS???

I don't have to say anything about Billups and Sheed cause I've been sayin ALL SEASON that this "Free the Three" crap would bite us in the ass.....Jumpshot after jumpshot after god*amned jumpshot....can I get you some gauze?

Flip goes away from his defensive players constantly putting guys like Delk on the damn floor when we can't stop ANY CLE player from scoring right when they need it the most. It was the same crap against MIL when he put Delk on Redd and began a thanksgiving day parade to the FT line for MIL. I'm sick of this.

I've been saying it all year long and all I got was crap from everybody about shutting up and enjoying the ride. SCREW THE RIDE. I want to win. This team has looked like garbage for 2 straight games against a medeocre team at best. This is unacceptable and Flip is the one who decided that our guys "already know how to play defense" so he's ignored it and the Pistons are being made to look like fools because of it. Do you think it will get easier or harder IF we advance?

Low, your last post is a thing of Wrecktangle beauty. You owe me a Sour Note any day now. :)

Low, your last post is a thing of Wrecktangle beauty. You owe me a Sour Note any day now. :)

Trust me, there's one coming...

Just for the record, I was joking about wanting LB back. (Just had to get that off my chest. I didn't want anyone thinking I was an LB fan)

But I do think we should get Sheed a muzzle.

Just for the record, I was joking about wanting LB back. (Just had to get that off my chest. I didn't want anyone thinking I was an LB fan)

But I do think we should get Sheed a muzzle.
I think we should duct tape an electronic cattle prod to Chauncey with a remote control held by Ben.

The bench looked great in the 1st round and Flip managed to coax them back into their shells.

AHhhHHHh-Hooooo . . . AhHhHhhh-whoa . . Okay. I've calmed down. I think the other reason (the first being choking) was Flip's fear of shooting a jumper in the fourth quarter. We posted, but position wasn't helping us any. Our guards didn't deliver a single crisp entry pass the entire fourth quarter. I think we need to start using a baseline B-Wall screen on Rip's man, Ben then setting a pic on Rasheed's man (all while Rip's driving to the cup) so the trash-talking lazy transition defense Rashweed can flare. Rip'll either score, choke, charge, deliver a pass that'll get tipped, or . . break his nose. Anderson Veraho-Guarinni's far too aggressive on defense. Rasheed'll be open half the time. Donyell will just stand on the perimeter (on defense). Man. That's one long sentence. I hope we uuck fp LeBron wednesday. Put in Jmax to purposely injure The Chosen One. I was at this game, and . . I'm sick.

Just my thirty-six cents. *Shrug.*

I don't know. I am dejected and shocked as much as the rest of you all. So far and being completely honest about it I am seeing a repeat of the Indy series of last years 2nd round.

Could not hit the side of a barn all 4th quarter - thats why we lost. Yes the Cavs got some calls. We held them to 74 points.. Defensivly what do you want?

Pistons went 8 mins in the late 3rd/early 4th without a field goal. Had chance afer chance to hit a dang shot and put the Cavs away in crunch time. No points at all in the Final 3 minutes!!! Can you believe that $@#$@. Was there any points scored? I do not remember any. Hit a dang shot. Whats so hard about it? All these great players and shot after shot after shot - clank...

Even had a sequence when Ben grabbed an offensive board and fed Rip for a point blank 1 foot shot - and he missed...

You can't make a shot in crunch time in a close game and you will not win no matter what the refs are doing..

Same old Same old. Lets at least win game #5 and avoid a repeat of the 04 NJ series.

Stern loves us because we always give the other team hope. Keeps the fans involved you know.

I'm very glad that we lost tonight. Losing tonite was probably the best thing that could have happen to us cause now we will know that we are not invincible and I hope and feel that we will respond. I think that we can all agree that this team got way to big for its britches. With the great start, the fantastic open offense, the four all-stars, and the franchise record we have lost all sense of who we are and what got us this kind of success. All of our starters need to come down to earth and admit to themselves that they actually have to play hard to win. I think that we all can agree that we are very talented and can beat anyone in the league. What has happened is that we have somehow started to feel that we cannot be beat, which is not true at all as far as far as i'm concered. This team needs to sit down and look at themselves in the mirror and really try to find that hunger that made/makes us great. Which Detroit will show up, we shall see.

we are getting dogged on the national news too...Sheed looks like a sissyI'm looking at our defensive stats and I still cant see how we lost vs Cavs defense? James ,,,8-23 FG...5-10 FT...8 turnovers!!!!!!!I aint sleeping well tonight cuz I dont get Chauncey sometimes and they got Ben nothing. I really feel like he'll be leaving rather than play for Flip. ...sigh!:confused: sad boy...need cowbell...............we gettin dogged on National news too!

The bench is sucking big time. Nothing from Dice, Delk or Hunter.

7 TO's in the 4th qtr.:doh: Pistons making La Bron look like a 5 year pro and Verejon an allstar.

Hamilton is the only player showing up but unfortunately he missed his last two shots.

Sheed goes down the beginning 2nd and stays in there and commits 3 TO's and misses 10 shots. Flip left him in there to guarantee his promise and it backfires.

Some negative key plays:
CB driving over Verajon...does he know how to drive from the right side of the hoop?

Tay was on with the shots when he was backing LBJ down, but went away from that in the 4th.

The 12-1 run by the Cavs to start the 4th was a killer.

First time we have won the battle of the paint 36-32 and lost from the 3 pt arc...5 to 4. four 3 pt makes!@&*(&)

We need to respect these guys a little and not take it for granted that we will win at the end, because that has not worked at all. take care of business and blow it out in the beginning. Even in the post game interviews they didn't seem concerned...I am, because I thought this was a 4-1 series now it looks like 6 or 7, with the Heat getting a possible 4 day rest.

If we cannot score more than 80 pts a game, then we don't need to advance. (the wiz scored an average of 100 pts...where did this cavs defense come from?) Now we have given the Cavs more rope and confidence and it is a MUST game for us Wednesday

Flip has lost it. Even if Sheed was hurt, what about Dice. Everyone think about this, Game 4, up 2-1, crunch time, Flip subbed Sheed for Evans.
:frusty::doh::frusty::confused::wacko::confused::m ad2:
What the &!^@&&&@^&@^!&@^-ity F-*&@&@#&*!!!! F-####!!!!

Top 3 Reasons:
3. Mo gave Flip some good loving last night to make up for the last game
2. Flip threw a tantrum, upset at Ben, Sheed, Dice, and Joe giving him crap
1. Flip just lost his mfn mind

Sorry for the language, but this is truly incomprehensible, anyone else got an explanation?

Well I was right...the points were way down. And the out come was wrong.
You D people happy with scoring 72 pts.?
Why are we still playing that antiquaited system?
We lost because we never got the tre untracted.

I like what Mo can bring but near crunch time.

First off, Flip did exactly the opposite of what he needed to do for this game. FOCUS ON DEFENSE.
How many points fewer than 74 do you think an NBA playoff team can be held to? All right, 71 would have been good, but come on you can't lay this loss on the defense. Yeah, the Cavs hit some big shots, but when you only make 29 field goals, they're all memorable.

But even if you can hold them to 74, only having two guys scoring just isn't going to get it done. Flip has gone away from the rotations he was starting to establish during the Bucks series and that has thrown the bench completely off. Chauncey's head shrinking act needs to reach about a seven and a half or it stays ugly. And Sheed needs to get better. One day off between games is going to be hard.

Sooner or later someone other than Rip or Tay is going to need to find the hoop in Cleveland or we're looking at a game 7.

Looks like we got a real live, legitimate series to me! Time to take a look at these Cavs. With Big Z, they can compete in the paint. When he sits they become run and gun. D. Marshall is deadly. Varajao and the rest of the Brazilians (Nene, Barbosa) ain't never been soft. Snow likes the rough stuff. The Cavs got a team worthy of a serious "game plan."

Flip....you home?

Snow draws a flagrant 1 and the ball on Mo and he hits 1-2 and the Pistons fail to cash in when they take the ball out of bounds. I think that was a key as a make there and a score give us the 72-70 lead. Rip scored later and maybe the next play would have been called differently.

Snow knew what to do. Why is it that we cannot do the same to James or veraejo? to show them who is boss?


That three by La bron to end the half turned out to be the difference in the game and now it is being questioned that the refs gave him a break as he actually stepped out of bounds

I'm very glad that we lost tonight. Losing tonite was probably the best thing that could have happen to us cause now we will know that we are not invincible and I hope and feel that we will respond. I think that we can all agree that this team got way to big for its britches. With the great start, the fantastic open offense, the four all-stars, and the franchise record we have lost all sense of who we are and what got us this kind of success. All of our starters need to come down to earth and admit to themselves that they actually have to play hard to win. I think that we all can agree that we are very talented and can beat anyone in the league. What has happened is that we have somehow started to feel that we cannot be beat, which is not true at all as far as far as i'm concered. This team needs to sit down and look at themselves in the mirror and really try to find that hunger that made/makes us great. Which Detroit will show up, we shall see.quoted and i hope that you are right

We created our own pressure cooker by giving away game three and we got fried in it. We missed shots from early on due to the pressure of the moment. Sheed's prediction took his own offense out of the game as he pressed. Our offense was slowed down on purpose--I don't understand this strategy by Flip. It allowed Cleveland to stay in the game. We were totally out of sync--we passed when we should have shot and vice-versa. I t is a myth that us or any other team always hits in crunch time. Nobody wanted the ball late. Rip's drive was lame but so was Chauncey's game. We have to come out and play with purpose on both ends.

The pressure will still be there that we created. We don't need to grind to win--that is going backward. And even though Cleveland didn't score that much, we are still not guarding Barrejo as he works off of Le Bron. This is first time all season that I am disappointed. We have to get out of this funk.

Wow I expected our team to showup and Rip and Ben were about the only ones that got off the bus.Flip's subs really sucked.They went small ball, throw in the big dogs and light em up down low when you haven't scored a basket in what 8mins?He played right into their game plan what the %#@*??Offensively we have been horrible and I don't mean to sound like the swollen headed players but we lost this it wasn't the Cavs defense.Yes they had some good plays but we are way off offensively as a team.

I can't believe playing on the road has had this much affect on our game.Keep the games this close and James will take it over late and beat us heck he played like a** and they won.

I'm not worried to much,concerned yes.This isn't the time to hit an offensive funk and play unlike the Pistons should play.We keep playing like this and the ankle affects Sheed,well it will be time to call the Wings to see which golf course they are on.

Flip has lost it. Even if Sheed was hurt, what about Dice. Everyone think about this, Game 4, up 2-1, crunch time, Flip subbed Sheed for Evans.
:frusty::doh::frusty::confused::wacko::confused::m ad2:
What the &!^@&&&@^&@^!&@^-ity F-*&@&@#&*!!!! F-####!!!!

Top 3 Reasons:
3. Mo gave Flip some good loving last night to make up for the last game
2. Flip threw a tantrum, upset at Ben, Sheed, Dice, and Joe giving him crap
1. Flip just lost his mfn mind

Sorry for the language, but this is truly incomprehensible, anyone else got an explanation?

There is no reasonable reason to put Mo in for Sheed... obviously Dice was the better move... but the Milkman could have done better than Sheed tonight.

Cleveland looked like they wanna get physical these days. Gettin a lil too big for their britches. Maybe throw Davis out there to bang with Big Z for a moment.

Anybody see Cato havin a good ole time on the bench? Laughing at LBJ's missed free throw? Let's sic him on the Cavs front line and make him earn his keep. He outta be good for some hard fouls and a fade away jumper or two.

Wow I expected our team to showup and Rip and Ben were about the only ones that got off the bus.Flip's subs really sucked.They went small ball, throw in the big dogs and light em up down low when you haven't scored a basket in what 8mins?He played right into their game plan what the %#@*?? You hit the nail on the head. Going small to match was a major sign of weakness from Flip. He has 3 bigs active on the bench, and rather than dictating back at the rookie head coach, he goes all pollyanna playing follow the leader and patty cake.

It wouldn't matter if he put in Mo, Delfino or Delk. He needed to go big, maxmize the clock, offensive rebound and force CB to run sets.

Dice outplayed by Varajao. Chauncey outplayed by Snow. Flip outcoached by Mike Brown.

Chauncey does not get a free pass tonight. This was his worst playoff game since 2003. Those three treys he missed weren't good looks, it was chucking plain and simple. He didn't involve his teammates, and he didn't carry the scoring load. He's regressing. I'm all for the trey if you run a play to setup the open look. Just coming down and chucking a moonball is not getting the job done.

That monkey JT the Brick just said on FoxSports Radio that if the Pistons lose to the Cavs, it's time to break this team up. As much as I hate to say this, he's right. Everyone is a little too fat and confident about themselves. To the point that they are not playing smart or composed anymore.

If we cannot score more than 80 pts a game, then we don't need to advance. (the wiz scored an average of 100 pts...where did this cavs defense come from?) Now we have given the Cavs more rope and confidence and it is a MUST game for us Wednesday
It ain't the Cavs D, trust me. The Pistons play right into their hands. I've said it all along. Shooting jumpshots consistantly against bad defensive teams takes ALL of the pressure off of them. That's why we can make bad D look awfully good on occassion. The Pistons seem to only have strong offensive nights against them when they're banging treys left and right. That's not going to happen all the time. Especially when they aren't moving the ball around.

Summary: We need a legit off-the-dribble slasher. Rip is decent, but not great. Chauncey doesn't finish at the rim in traffic. Tayshaun is a %%%%% most of the time (step back jumper..... CLANK!). We also need a big guy who can camp near the paint and finish (Max?). Ben, Sheed, and Dice are too soft down low on offense. No one can power it up in traffic and throw it down or get a layup (like how Varejao is murdering us right now). Ben can't finish from anywhere and Dice/Sheed like to hang out on the perimeter too much.

.



That monkey JT the Brick just said on FoxSports Radio that if the Pistons lose to the Cavs, it's time to break this team up. As much as I hate to say this, he's right. Everyone is a little too fat and confident about themselves. To the point that they are not playing smart or composed anymore.

The heavilly favored 2004 Lakers were dismantled, save Kobe, lil Walton and Deavan George). but I am not sure if we go tha far. At least one of the starters though needs to go and all of the guys coming off the bench with maybe the exception of Dice. Keep the rookies and bring in replacements for Mo, Hunter, delk, Cato and Davis

I'm not ready to break the team up; win, lose, or draw. However losing the series to the Cavs could spark some discussion. We've got a weak bench, and those chickens are coming home to roost. Who would we insert if Rip has foul trouble? Or Prince gets tired (cause lawd knows HE ain't gettin in foul trouble)?

Mo was a good buy for the money, Delk was the best move at the time, and Delfino's shot is broke. None of them is an "impact player" off the bench; and Joe knows we need that. The six starters have carried us all season. Time for the bench to step up and produce. It's money time!

Summary: We need a legit off-the-dribble slasher. Rip is decent, but not great. Chauncey doesn't finish at the rim in traffic. Tayshaun is a %%%%% most of the time (step back jumper..... CLANK!). We also need a big guy who can camp near the paint and finish (Max?). Ben, Sheed, and Dice are too soft down low on offense. No one can power it up in traffic and throw it down or get a layup (like how Varejao is murdering us right now). Ben can't finish from anywhere and Dice/Sheed like to hang out on the perimeter too much.

Agree Fresh-one. We have no Labron type slasher or anyone who can take it to the rim with authority... i hate when your namesake takes the step back jumper, because more than 60% of the time it is a clanker...driving to the rim on James to force the refs to make some calls would be the smart way to play this one. :nod:

That monkey JT the Brick just said on FoxSports Radio that if the Pistons lose to the Cavs, it's time to break this team up. As much as I hate to say this, he's right. Everyone is a little too fat and confident about themselves. To the point that they are not playing smart or composed anymore.
I don't think you completely break the team up, but I think it would be about time that you open up some more opportunities for guys like Maxiell and Delfino (Amir?). Get some young blood in there to shake things up. See if these guys can cut it. We don't have any picks to add significant talent, so it would be tough.

Not sure what you do about Flip if they flake out. I have a tough time thinking he'd be fired, but he's the difference isn't he? I have to think he is a significant reason why they can't seem to keep their compsure late in games.

Daddy & Micro, I was thinking the exact same thing during the 4th Q! If any team is capable of playing big and being able to handle an opponent who goes small, its this team because of their versatility. Especially considering that our 5 is already undersized anyway. We already play smallish big ball. Its when teams go supersized against us that we have problems (eg. Shaq and Zo), not the other way around!

Ben is quick enough to easily guard a 3, 4 or 5. Heck, he can guard 1s and 2s on switches. Remember the charge he drew on AI in the backcourt last year? Even if Sheed was injured, we still had Dice or Davis that could have came in and played the 5, which would have freed up Ben to dominate his man.

Oh well. All we can hope for now is that Flip learned from his mistake and will make the adjustment for game 5. Something that LB was very hesitant to do last season when he was outcoached by Pop in the Finals.

Wow I expected our team to showup and Rip and Ben were about the only ones that got off the bus.Offensively we have been horrible and I don't mean to sound like the swollen headed players but we lost this it wasn't the Cavs defense.Yes they had some good plays but we are way off offensively as a team.


Well, I for one is glad to hear a couple of people on this forum say that Rip and Ben showed up. Yea, Rip's shoot was off somewhat, but he constantly hustled throughout the game. Thought he even played good D on Lebron at times. Ben had some good plays as well. I was on another Piston forum earlier, and there were a few posters that felt like Rip and Ben single-handingly loss that game for the Pistons. Whatever!:fingerscr

Overall, the Pistons are NOT playing Piston-ball. :mad: They seem to be forcing a lot of shoots, and not contesting a lot of the Cavs shoots or drives. :frusty:

How many points fewer than 74 do you think an NBA playoff team can be held to? All right, 71 would have been good, but come on you can't lay this loss on the defense. Yeah, the Cavs hit some big shots, but when you only make 29 field goals, they're all memorable.

But even if you can hold them to 74, only having two guys scoring just isn't going to get it done. Flip has gone away from the rotations he was starting to establish during the Bucks series and that has thrown the bench completely off. Chauncey's head shrinking act needs to reach about a seven and a half or it stays ugly. And Sheed needs to get better. One day off between games is going to be hard.

Sooner or later someone other than Rip or Tay is going to need to find the hoop in Cleveland or we're looking at a game 7.
I'm not talking about holding CLE to 48 pts total. I'm talking about getting stops at crucial times of the game. That is no longer an option with this team. CLE shot like crap so they SHOULD have only scored 74, but they scored at crucial points when they needed it and it was due to piss poor defensive effort on our part.

...and if they lose to the Cavs, I sincerly hope Flip simply stays in Ohio with his family and is fired before the postgame interviews are done.

Hatter - If we lose in the 2nd round there will be a lot of changes.

That is if. So far there is nothing to convince me that this is not a typical Piston playoff series.

In 04 ist round - 5 games, 2nd - 7 , 3rd - 6, Finals - 5
05 - 1st round - 5 games, 2nd - 6 , 3rd - 7, Finals - 7

So far the Pistons have never been able to beat a team with more than 47 wins in less than 6. Remove all the smoke and mirrors and its just the same Cardiac Kidds always needing a cause and reason to get inspired. Nothing has changed.

Guys, we are all disgusted and depressed by what we "witnessed" tonight. Rightfully so. The play from both teams was lousy and Flips coaching was crap. The refs weren't great either.

But come on. This talk about breaking up the team because the series is tied 2-2 is way off. We'll all feel better when the Pistons kick butt at the Palace. It's a must win game and Detroit WILL win.

I don't think you completely break the team up, but I think it would be about time that you open up some more opportunities for guys like Maxiell and Delfino (Amir?). Get some young blood in there to shake things up. See if these guys can cut it. We don't have any picks to add significant talent, so it would be tough.

OK but forget about winning any 'ships for a while if Maxiell, Amir and Delfino are given extensive playing time. Joe D would most likely make minor adjustments if the Stones don't win it all this season. I just can't see any reason to get rid of the top six so I echo your thoughts.

It's a must win game and Detroit WILL win.

Whatever you say, Sheed. :laugh:

OK but forget about winning any 'ships for a while if Maxiell, Amir and Delfino are given extensive playing time. Joe D would most likely make minor adjustments if the Stones don't win it all this season. I just can't see any reason to get rid of the top six so I echo your thoughts.

Well, I didn't say you gotta play these guys 40 minutes. Just get them involved. Give them an opportunity to see if any of them can suprise us. You never know what could happen. Max could break out as an impact player. Delfino could, etc. Getting the youth involved may give this team an energy spark and would definately help keep the starters fresh over the long haul. To me, the starters have been looking tired late in games since toward the middle-end of the regular season. They just don't have any hop in their step.

Whatever you say, Sheed. :laugh:

LMAO Gazoo. :laugh:

You can take it to the bank. Print it on Pf.com, on the Detroit News board, or anywhere you please. I absolutely guarantee a Pistons victory in game 5 at the Palace AND guarantee the Pistons will win the series. :thumb:

what tha F*&&%$ck was that??????
Flip.....how fuggin stupid are you.......we're the big dogs and you let a rookie force your hand...........Seeing Mo Evans wasn't even the issue....seeing us adjust to them was HUGE!!!!!!! Y'all I'm worried because Pat Riley will kick tha living ISHT out of Flip if Flip doesn't get his head out of his %%%%%.......we got outcoached badly this game. Flip is in an unfamiliar place right now and it's showing. We have lost every 4th qtr of this series....we have yet to execute down the stretch and get high percentage shots. LB's plays got us to the ft line, made us move the ball until it yielded dunks & layups late in games or after a timeout....flip diagrams plays that get us Iso's and open 20ft j's Oh My Lord........Help us please.

what tha F*&&%$ck was that??????
Flip.....how fuggin stupid are you.......we're the big dogs and you let a rookie force your hand...........Seeing Mo Evans wasn't even the issue....seeing us adjust to them was HUGE!!!!!!! Y'all I'm worried because Pat Riley will kick tha living ISHT out of Flip if Flip doesn't get his head out of his %%%%%.......we got outcoached badly this game. Flip is in an unfamiliar place right now and it's showing. We have lost every 4th qtr of this series....we have yet to execute down the stretch and get high percentage shots. LB's plays got us to the ft line, made us move the ball until it yielded dunks & layups late in games or after a timeout....flip diagrams plays that get us Iso's and open 20ft j's Oh My Lord........Help us please.
I hear you KGREG, why is a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in years, playing like veterans in the 4th qtr and we are playing like crap on both ends. Two games in a row, we have multiple turnovers in crunch time, cannot hit a layup, or dunk and cannot stop a one man James gang!! There were two instances in the last two minutes where both Mo & Ben grabbed rebounds and were in a position to go right back up for put backs but didn't react fast enough and ZERO points were scored on those two possessions. In the Ben situation he was wide open, but passed to a wide open surprised Rip who blew the short jumper.

I was sick to my stomach after the game ended. But now that I have had a little time to reflect on it, I'm not worried. We should have pulled out both games in Cleveland... and it would have been a sweep. We only had 1 point in the 4th quarter until the 5:40 mark. When is that going to happen again?

We played great defense the last 2 games and just didn't score enough points. And Mo Evans did a good job. Chauncey was missing. Tay was not knocking down his jumper. Sheed didn't do sheet. Ben had a mediocre game. Dyess had ZERO points. Lindsay couldn't hit. And we still could have won!

Didn't see the game, but we are now in a best-of-three situation with two games in the Palace. I'm not worried.

We all knew these Pistons have a propensity to play to the level of their competition. This is what they do. I still think we win it all.

I'm just sad- last night, I dreamed that the Pistons would lose this one and it came true. I mean, what's wrong with these guys? They consider themselves as contenders and get beaten by the Cavs, who are far away from being a thread TWICE? No bench, wack play by Sheed and Tay- and, the saddest thing, got beaten with their own weapons (defense).

Why we shouldn't worry:
The Cavs played there best defense all season, and kept the Pistons to 33% shooting. Rasheed got hurt. Chauncey didn't do anything. The refs sucked at the end and called a big call by not giving the ball back to the Pistons. Verajao had the game of his life. Even though all this happened we lost by 1 possesion.

Now what I'm worrying about is Chauncey and Tayshaun. Chauncey has had only 1 big game this entire postseason. Mr.Bigshot had 2 crunchtime shots and 1 was a 3 he bricked, and the other was a charge on a drive. Chauncey has dissapeared and he needs to take over in Game 5. As for Tay he played great. Every time we went to him he scored or got really close to scoring. So why doesn't Tay get any plays called for him? Flip needs to give the ball to Tay to make Lebron play D, and not only that Tayshaun scores more than 50% of the time on him.

Everything's cool. I had the Pistons in six in my bracket. :laugh:

Exactly, gazoo. ;)

That was my pick as well and why I'm not going to panic (yet). Even though we're clearly playing horrible as an entire unit, which is just blowing me away.

It really is unbelievable to sit here and watch the starters as well as the bench struggle so badly against an inferior opponent like this. I really expect them to turn this around when they bring it back home, and then close it out when they go back to Cleveland. Of course that's assuming Flip actually learns how to make adjustments by then. Let's hope his incompetent assistants can try to be some sort of help here instead of sitting there like bumps on a log.

And what exactly has happened to McDyess? I'm not trying to single him out here, really I'm not, especially with how the rest of the team is playing so bad at the moment, but he was playing so well towards the end of the season, and now all of a sudden it's like he can't do anything right. It's quite surprising, as many things are right now, but to me, this one really sticks out.

I want the Antônio McDyess from last postseason back. Lord knows we could use him right now. :nod:

Looking at this the day after it is clear that the Pistons underestimated the Cavs after the first 2 games. They need to re-focus on playing smart ball. Stop settling for the quick jumpers and use the shot clock to move the ball and get the offensive flow going. They also need to manufacture baskets early in the 5th game by going to the hole and getting everybody on track. Their is no doubt that they are the better team, they have to start playing like it. Pistons in 6!

Another thing, Sheed just SHUT THE F UP and play! No reason to promise anything or distract from the task at hand. Give your opponent credit for beating you and move on.

Postgame Press Conferences.

Flip
LeBron
Rip
Mike Brown

All in MP3 audio.

Apparently Ben was interviewed in the locker room but only had an expletive laden tirade to contribute. Most of it was "beeped" out. Thank goodness someone was mad.

First off, Flip did exactly the opposite of what he needed to do for this game. FOCUS ON DEFENSE. Then, he plays Mo in crunch time, f*ck that, I'll take my chances with a struggling Dice than with a crappy Evans. I don't even care if Delfino ever gets off the bench. JUST STOP SHOVING EVANS DOWN MY THROAT. It's NOT working and I'm sick of it! The guys has one good game and 3 sh*tty ones and he's considered a SUCCESS???

i just can't agree with you that we didn't focus on defense, when we forced a slow, half-court game and held the cavs to 72 points. and i can't agree about mo playing poorly either.

mo forced lebron practically out-of-bounds to hit that 3 at the end of the half, then he comes up with an important offensive rebound at the end of the 3rd quarter to limit the cavs getting an extra shot, and then he gets a steal late in the game and gets us 2 free throws plus the ball back. i agree with micro, if mcdyess keeps playing timid then let's see some dale davis...there's no way he lets this easy shiz pass in the lane.

as for my other comments on the game that i previously typed up and put on DBB:

We played 2 of our worst games of the year and almost won. Milwaukee would have beat us by 30 points playing as poorly as we did.
For some reason we feel like playing an isolation offense when that hasn’t worked for us all year. Notice when Rip worked hard through screens he got layups. I don’t know if Flip or Chauncey is calling the ‘wait until 12 seconds left in the shot clock to run the play, and just pass once and shoot a contested jumper’ style of play, but it needs to stop.

The other odd thing is McDyess. He’s gone timid for some reason, taking extra pivots and nearly traveling instead of just putting up his money shot which is unguardable, as if he’s scared to shoot. We look like the Cavs in the sense that no one wants to shoot the ball.

In any case, people forget that the Cavs won 50 games and aren’t pushovers. The Pistons were as arrogant as the fans (whether we want to admit it or not), so hopefully they take care of business and end this in 6 games. Hopefully New Jersey steals one on the road, takes care of home, and forces a Game 7. I was looking forward to Dick Bavetta for Game 5 but it looks like he has to go take care of the Spurs at home for their Game 5 and make that a series. http://www.detroitbadboys.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Zozo and Warthhog, I am also wondering what is going on. How bad can an offense look in a playoff game? Dyss bumped knees with someone in game 1 or 2 and that may be the problem there. We put pressure on ourselves with that game 3 giveaway and we didn't respond to it. Why we think we need to slow the game down is beyond me. We have the athletes. Are we THAT worried about Le Bron in the open floor? And I am not buying that Cleveland is a very good team. I hope this was all a mirage. Otherwise, they are into our offensive game and we lost with our own grind.

Just read Flip: we are playing not to lose instead of to win. Like I said, we built our own pressure cooker and got fried in it. We need to come out and just play and have fun. Flip also said that the offense was too tentative. That is an understatement.

Mo Evans is playing well by every measure. Evans is 2nd on the team in the Roland Rating, 3rd in production, and 5th in on-court +/-. I would also argue that his D has been pretty good. When Evans is in the game, we are allowing an eFG% of 43.9%.

On the other hand, Lindsay is sucking. He's last on the team in Roland Rating, last in production, and last in on court +/-. The Pistons are allowing an eFG% of 55.8% in the 96 minutes that he has played. There is no hiding it, he is hurting the team right now.

I think Tay needs to guard LeBron one-on-one and the Pistons can't let the others guy beat them because that's what's happening now and Flip hasn't adjusted to it. I'm fairly certain Tay can hold the King to under 40 points. This is why Sideshow Bob has suddenly looked like a star. LeBron's supporting cast isn't that good. They're so wide open because of this Prevent LeBron Defense. It worked fine the first two games but now it's time to try something else. Ol' Flipper has been slow to adjust.

I think Tay needs to guard LeBron one-on-one and the Pistons can't let the others guy beat them because that's what's happening now and Flip hasn't adjusted to it. I'm fairly certain Tay can hold the King to under 40 points. This is why Sideshow Bob has suddenly looked like a star. LeBron's supporting cast isn't that good. They're so wide open because of this Prevent LeBron Defense. It worked fine the first two games but now it's time to try something else. Ol' Flipper has been slow to adjust.

you make a good point, and i said it to my friend last night. why not guard lebron 1 on 1 with tay/rip, who have been doing pretty well, and just staying with our man-to-man that has always worked for this team.

the only problem with that theory is that we've held the cavs to pretty low point totals and the defense has worked when looking at the numbers. bleh. who knows.

They're so wide open because of this Prevent LeBron Defense. It worked fine the first two games but now it's time to try something else. Ol' Flipper has been slow to adjust.

I don't think defense is the problem. The Pistons lost because of their inability to score 75 freakin' points! That's less than 19 freakin' points a quarter.

Don't get me started. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from last nights loss. Detroit wins the series, but nobody needed this. :mad:

Snow draws a flagrant 1 and the ball on Mo and he hits 1-2 and the Pistons fail to cash in when they take the ball out of bounds. I think that was a key as a make there and a score give us the 72-70 lead. Rip scored later and maybe the next play would have been called differently.

Snow knew what to do. Why is it that we cannot do the same to James or veraejo? to show them who is boss?


That three by La bron to end the half turned out to be the difference in the game and now it is being questioned that the refs gave him a break as he actually stepped out of boundsSAW another camera angle on NBATV and he was in bounds...sorry 2 say!

I'm not ready to break the team up; win, lose, or draw. However losing the series to the Cavs could spark some discussion. We've got a weak bench, and those chickens are coming home to roost. Who would we insert if Rip has foul trouble? Or Prince gets tired (cause lawd knows HE ain't gettin in foul trouble)?

Mo was a good buy for the money, Delk was the best move at the time, and Delfino's shot is broke. None of them is an "impact player" off the bench; and Joe knows we need that. The six starters have carried us all season. Time for the bench to step up and produce. It's money time!Heres a GUAR-AN-Q'd!......Two words- GRANT HILL

what tha F*&&%$ck was that??????
Flip.....how fuggin stupid are you.......we're the big dogs and you let a rookie force your hand...........Seeing Mo Evans wasn't even the issue....seeing us adjust to them was HUGE!!!!!!! Y'all I'm worried because Pat Riley will kick tha living ISHT out of Flip if Flip doesn't get his head out of his %%%%%.......we got outcoached badly this game. Flip is in an unfamiliar place right now and it's showing. We have lost every 4th qtr of this series....we have yet to execute down the stretch and get high percentage shots. LB's plays got us to the ft line, made us move the ball until it yielded dunks & layups late in games or after a timeout....flip diagrams plays that get us Iso's and open 20ft j's Oh My Lord........Help us please.

Amen brotha:pray:

While Flip can be questioned about his game strategy, play calling and rotations I wouldn't pass the entire blame on him. This is a seasoned group of veterans who should know better than to take low % shots. Why wasn't CB driving to the basket and picking up foul calls? The team attempted 15 3's when they clearly did not have the shooting touch. The players have to apply some common sense too and they had plenty of chances to win both games as bad as they played.

The Pistons lost because they are settling for jumpshots. It's been a long time coming too. Jumpshots look great at the beginning of the season when the D is a lax and legs are fresh. In the playoffs, the D is much better and the legs are worn down from the 82 game grind. A jumpshot-only offense is always going to be a streaky one. It's not going to be consistant like a team like the Spurs that constantly attack in the post and off the dribble.

Say what you will about LB's offense, but it worked better down the stretch of games. You can see these 4th quarter collapses coming from a mile away because Flip seems incapable of calling a set play, and Chauncey is incappable of playing "not to lose". The good old dribble, dribble, dribble, hoist offense that involves 1 pass if you're lucky.

Also, could you possibly imagine Ben scoring 29 points or 21 points in a game like he did in the last post season? No, Flip won't even go inside if it's available. He doesn't even make it a viable threat, so bad defensive teams can load up on the perimeter and shut down our shooters.

we are getting dogged on the national news too...Sheed looks like a sissyI'm looking at our defensive stats and I still cant see how we lost vs Cavs defense? James ,,,8-23 FG...5-10 FT...8 turnovers!!!!!!!I aint sleeping well tonight cuz I dont get Chauncey sometimes and they got Ben nothing. I really feel like he'll be leaving rather than play for Flip. ...sigh!:confused: sad boy...need cowbell...............we gettin dogged on National news too!

I have the same feeling too, bro. Somehow, it seems to me that Ben does not like the way Flip coaches. His new agent might be telling Joe D that Ben will play for free in Detroit as long as Flip's not the coach.

Heres a GUAR-AN-Q'd!......Two words- GRANT HILL

word, Bro. Really like the idea.

Why we think we need to slow the game down is beyond me. We have the athletes. Are we THAT worried about Le Bron in the open floor? And I am not buying that Cleveland is a very good team. I hope this was all a mirage. Otherwise, they are into our offensive game and we lost with our own grind.
I think Merc mentioned in the game chat that the COLA disciple Mike Brown has his guys playing a lot like a COLA team. We know how to beat that. Run'n Gun. That's why Ranger Rick plays his system. Because with inferior talent, you can keep it close enough to have a chance to win.

Mo Evans is playing well by every measure.

On the other hand, Lindsay is sucking. ... There is no hiding it, he is hurting the team right now.
Yeah. I think people are more mad to see Mo than Dice than really mad at Mo himself. It's a carry over from the season, although you would be surprised how many people call up to the WDFN postgame show crying about Delfino. I emailed the host about it, and I could tell especially last night that he was just tired of hearing it.

Lindsey needs to be replaced after this season. We need to get a burner like Devin Harris or a young Tony Parker type guard. Someone who can penetrate.

I think Tay needs to guard LeBron one-on-one and the Pistons can't let the others guy beat them because that's what's happening now and Flip hasn't adjusted to it. I'm fairly certain Tay can hold the King to under 40 points. This is why Sideshow Bob has suddenly looked like a star. LeBron's supporting cast isn't that good. They're so wide open because of this Prevent LeBron Defense. It worked fine the first two games but now it's time to try something else. Ol' Flipper has been slow to adjust.
This goes against everything the Pistons did sucessfully the last 2 years. We never would double a star before. You gave him 35, held his teammates to a combined 40 and won the game. I want to believe in Flip, but he's looking really overmatched when we don't score. When we encounter adversity.

The most disturbing trend is a lack of energy from the bench. They've provided nothing since Game 1.

Last 3 games, averaging 7.3 points and 7 rebounds.

Game 2 ~ 6 + 5
Game 3 ~ 9 + 9
Game 4 ~ 7 + 7

Y'all that aren't worried should be.....now I know we'll beat the Cavs, but remember it's 'ship or die. This team can not beat Dallas or Miami right now. Both have deeper and more productive benches that allow their starters to have fresher legs down the stretch, and both have coaches that can draw up sets to get pts in the paint....remember those guys....we used to do that until we became a pass once jump-shooting team, that loves to hoist triples. Now we got a coach that can't figure out a 2nd half rotation that won't blow a lead. The name of the game is playing YOUR HAND, not ending the game with players on the court unfamiliar with that experience.

In the end of a playoff game you need to get ft's or pts in the paint if you want to be a champion, now granted there will be the option to kick it out for a J on the play, but you can design a play that is set up to get a jumper....wtf. And low and behold here we are in the 4th qtr playing a team where our biggest advantage is suppossed to be inside and Flip puts 4 perimeter players on the floor with Ben and we get man handled on the boards.......Lord Help Us. We are at the bottom of the league in rebs and pip's, not a formula for a 'ship.

I have the same feeling too, bro. Somehow, it seems to me that Ben does not like the way Flip coaches. His new agent might be telling Joe D that Ben will play for free in Detroit as long as Flip's not the coach. Ben has always had the look of the lion when he's getting low post touches. JUST touches. They ran NO plays in his direction and I know for a fact that Z-Ill is not qwik enuf to guard him for at least 12 pts. We must spread the floor and give Ben and Tay room to work. Ben is also a good passer out the post. I think I'll send Joe D an email tonight and tell him its "light a fire in Flip's behind" time..or else ..

Yeah unless the bench is holding back something, our worst fear may be realized, that the starters would be burned out by playoff time because Flip did not trust the bench during the season. As Micro posted, they have scored 22 pts and pulled down 21 boards combined in games 2-4.:doh: Their bench of Donyell and Varejo are out playing our guys..nuff said:mad:

Tony Delk looked like a steal 6 weeks ago, now he can barely get off the bench. Dice got over missing the setup plays from Arroyo and solidified what we thought were the best starters and 1 in the NBA. now he has disappeared. Hunter gets off in game 1 shooting 4-5 Three balls and probably has scored no more than three points since then. We all may hate to say it, but Mo is the only one showing any inspiration out there and he is the player with the least amount of playoff experience. We still have issues scoring when he is in there though????

Second guess time?? How did Joe or any other GM in the vicinity let Tim Thomas sit at home for half of the season and then let the Suns grab him? I know we had Evans, but based on Thomas' contributions and our lack of offense, he could have been our x factor now more so than Delk. Right now, maybe Delfino is the x-factor that you bring in to throw off the Cavs as Varejeo has done to throw off our guys...

Tomorrow night, play your game, score 90 points and put a muzzle on Sheeds mouth before they goback to Cleveland. Once there, quietly take care of business and play smart ball and congratulate the Cavs for a nice test and go home and get ready for the Heat on Sunday.

Dre, I think the bench looks worse than it is due to Flip's over dependence on the starters. The 2nd unit needs to get into game flow too.

This board needs a "W"... can only imagine what the DetNews sounds like now.

This board needs a "W"... can only imagine what the DetNews sounds like now.

It's not as bad as you would think....(relatively speaking). Most people aren't jumping off the roofs of buildings (although some should be thrown off).:laugh:


Yeah, Lee is over there telling people how he predicted everything that happened (after it happens, of course), a couple of trolls, a handful of doomsayers, the usual imbeciles, a few muppets, and even...well...there's a...uhmmm...a kitty cat... posting over there (although it does seem somewhat brighter than many of the other posters).

It's not as bad as you would think....(relatively speaking). Most people aren't jumping off the roofs of buildings (although some should be thrown off).:laugh:


Yeah, Lee is over there telling people how he predicted everything that happened (after it happens, of course).

You guys do know that if Darko was on the roster we would have had W's in Games 3&4, right?:rolleyes:

I Been Too Pissed for Words.

I wonder if Joe is wondering about Flip right about now. Might be time for a come to Jesus meeting before things get any more out of hand.

This ties our longest loosing streak of the year, which didn’t happen till the last two games.

Somebody recover our shooting touch. It was last seen in Frostbite Falls.

Speaking of falls, isn’t it about time we find out if Mister James bounces.

AWWWW DAMNIT, YEA IT'S TIME FOR THAT COME TO JESUS MEETING. FLIP NEEDS TO BE REMINDED JUST WHAT IT IS THAT MAKES US THE BIG DOGS. AND IT AIN'T A SUNS SIZE LINEUP GETTING SERVED BY SIDESHOW BOB.

This board needs a "W"... can only imagine what the DetNews sounds like now.
Naw Merc I need more than a W, I need to see a team that wins the board war, wins the pts in the pt, moves the ball on offense, and just flexes it's muscle with a SYSTEM!!!!
All that X-factor stuff is BS, champions don't have X-factors they have players that know their role and excel in it. Champions play their game and make you stop it, when you can stop it..... you're the new champ. Dude I'm so frikkin pissed off at Flip right now I don't know what to do. How and the HELL do you put a lineup on the floor that has never played together before in a playoff game.....what plays can they run that they've practiced and perfected....that's why the execution was so off in the end.

I Been Too Pissed for Words.

I wonder if Joe is wondering about Flip right about now. Might be time for a come to Jesus meeting before things get any more out of hand.

This ties our longest loosing streak of the year, which didn’t happen till the last two games.

Somebody recover our shooting touch. It was last seen in Frostbite Falls.

Speaking of falls, isn’t it about time we find out if Mister James bounces.

AWWWW DAMNIT, YEA IT'S TIME FOR THAT COME TO JESUS MEETING. FLIP NEEDS TO BE REMINDED JUST WHAT IT IS THAT MAKES US THE BIG DOGS. AND IT AIN'T A SUNS SIZE LINEUP GETTING SERVED BY SIDESHOW BOB.

lemon I think rick carlise was sitting behind our bench as we reverted back to the scoring droughts we use to suffer when he was at the helm.

The problem is we spent the whole season living by the jumpshot and our only low post presence was the offensively challenged Ben. Right now Varejo is outplaying anybody we have in the post and jumpers are not falling. How can we go six minutes into the 4th qtr with only scoring 1 point!!!!!:frusty:

We had a 10 pt lead in the 3rd qtr of game 3 and 6 pt lead going into the 4th of game 4 and blew both leads......This could have been a sweep if we had played the 4th quarters the way champions play it.

lemon I think rick carlise was sitting behind our bench as we reverted back to the scoring droughts we use to suffer when he was at the helm.

The problem is we spent the whole season living by the jumpshot and our only low post presence was the offensively challenged Ben. Right now Varejo is outplaying anybody we have in the post and jumpers are not falling. How can we go six minutes into the 4th qtr with only scoring 1 point!!!!!:frusty:

We had a 10 pt lead in the 3rd qtr of game 3 and 6 pt lead going into the 4th of game 4 and blew both leads......This could have been a sweep if we had played the 4th quarters the way champions play it.

The sad part is that it didn't require a champiosnhip team to win the last game. Even if the offense was simply medicore instead of absolutely awful, the Pistons could have won. Flip's coaching negatives can't explain why these boys couldn't put up a couple of extra points/went into an extended funk when minimal scoring was required.

I don't think the problem was jump shots but lack of motion in the offense. We were playing under a lot of self-inflicted pressure as well--we normally would have won that game with a mediocre performance. Le Bron said the pressure was on the Pistons.

But we do not need to slow up the game to beat them and we can only beat the Heat if we play up tempo and use our speed and athleticism. But first things first, we have to move the ball and get our looks and make them play defense for 24 seconds. It is as if we are afraid to expose them.

Every time we had a few point edge, Chaucey launched a quick shot instead of working the offense. Our starters as a whole are not playing like they can. I wouldn't expect the bench to make that up. What we are lacking off the bench is good speed. The only speed we have is Evans who is limited in his overall game.

I'm not sure if everyone here remembers how hard it was to get to the promised land 2 years ago. We could have been eliminated a few times. We played poorly sometimes. Once you get by an obstacle like this one, everyone forgets about it.

We could have easily lost to the Pacers in '04.

And again, we were relatively close to sweeping this series.

I'm not sure if everyone here remembers how hard it was to get to the promised land 2 years ago. We could have been eliminated a few times. We played poorly sometimes. Once you get by an obstacle like this one, everyone forgets about it.

We could have easily lost to the Pacers in '04.

And again, we were relatively close to sweeping this series.

Exactly right. I was thinking the same thing this morning. Getting to the finals last year was scary too.

Hurry up game 5.

The Pacers were a 60+ win team with a 3rd-place MVP candidate, the DPOY, a feared clutch shooter, and a deep complementary cast. The Pistons finished 7 wins behind them.

The Cavs are a 50 win team with a 2nd-place MVP candidate and a whole lot of overrated, overpaid, and generally miscast players. The Pistons finished 14 wins ahead of them.

Nobody could have expected that the Pistons would suddenly perform this poorly against such a bad defensive team - and the Pistons don't have a HOF coach this time.

Nobody could have expected that the Pistons would suddenly perform this poorly against such a bad defensive team - and the Pistons don't have a HOF coach this time.

I'm not certain what point you are trying to make?

Are you saying the Pistons are going to lose to the Cavs?

Are you suggesting we all become Knicks fans?

Are you saying the Pistons should have swept the Cavs?

At what point are they allowed to lose a couple games to a team?

They played poorly. Nobody is defending them or making excuses for the players or the coach. Sux to be us today.

You go ahead and jump ship if you want, Captain Ahab (sorry, couldn't resist), I'm staying on board. :hand: See you at the victory party.

Tayshawn the attitude here suggests that the Pistons have never had a problem before.

They lost because of defense, yea. Its all Flips fault. Flip was not out there missing shot after shot.

Pistons deserved to lose that game. Whats so hard to understand about how not scoring in the final 3 minutes of a close game will lead to a loss? Defense gave the Pistons a chance but the shooting was so anemic.

Yep, we've been down this path once or twice.... at least this year it seems like we have the ability to score (baring this past game)... with Carlisle & LB you knew you were in for a dog fight every game because of the slow down style.
Somewhere there's a balance between ball control and freedom.... for the most part they've had a decent handle on this.

I'm not certain what point you are trying to make? Just that the Pacers in '04 that we "could have easily lost to" were a much better team all around than the Cavaliers of '06, as were the Nets of that year and the Heat last year. I even think the Pacers of '05 were a better team than these Cavs.

I just think that every team that has taken the Pistons to 6 games or more during this run was better than the Cavs. The Pistons should not be having this much trouble putting away Cleveland.

I was wondering what would have happened if Sheed would have fouled LeBron the exact same way that Snow fouled Evans last night. 2 game suspension maybe? You would get your ass kicked on the playground for that one.

You would get your ass kicked on the playground for that one.
I agree. Fouls like that nearly got me thrown out of basketball summer camp (twice). No lie.

I was wondering what would have happened if Sheed would have fouled LeBron the exact same way that Snow fouled Evans last night. 2 game suspension maybe? You would get your ass kicked on the playground for that one.

We expected it? So far LBJ shoots 3's from out of bounds, knocks players out of the way with his off-arm and sometimes takes a few more steps than are allowed. - We are all witnesses.

What really chesses me off about James. When the refs do try to keep him honest by calling a charge or not giving him a call he puts on that stupid scowelling face and acts like someone just took his lunch money.

You would think he would be happy with all the calls he does get.

I don't know about you guys but I cannot wait to see how we come out tomorrow. I am now hoping and praying that we come out with urgency but at the same time have a little fun. We are struggling no doubt about that, but at the same time all is not lost. What will help us tomorrow is if we can just go out there and take care of business by way of blowout. Everybody and their mom is having doubts that we will even win this series and to be honest with you those thoughts have been on my mind all day. In the two games that we have lost to the cavs we have not played the style that has gotten us the elite status that we acquired in the regular season. Things we need to do is that we need to establlish Sheed and Tay in the post the rest of the playoffs, I don't know how many times I can say this. Second we have to limit our turnovers and take care of the basketball. Third in combination with my second point is that we need to run the offense, I don't think that I have to go to great detail when i say that. Fourth is the fact that we need to stop all of this %%%%%footing and bring energy and intensity on defense, the defense that has won us a championship. With all that being said I'm really nervous and really scared about tomorrow's game I just hope that we find what made us great this season and take care of these guys in 6 games and get ready for a revitalized Miami. Go Pistons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure if everyone here remembers how hard it was to get to the promised land 2 years ago. We could have been eliminated a few times. We played poorly sometimes. Once you get by an obstacle like this one, everyone forgets about it.

We could have easily lost to the Pacers in '04.

And again, we were relatively close to sweeping this series.

Dead on TaShawn. I know I know, they won't beat "x," "y," or "z" playing the way they played (for most, but not all of) the last nine quarters. But I'll repeat, at the risk of being obnoxious, that if this team has shown anything in the past three seasons it is that they meet challenges when they perceive them. Of course, we aren't the ones that get to decide what they will perceive as a challenge. Nor do I think, based on past experience, that their comments to the media are an accurate indicator of whether or not they are perceiving a challenge. Maybe they will see Game 5 as a challenge and do their thing and maybe they'll need to go down 3-2 before their challenge indicator lights go on.

Whatever the case, I certainly feel completely confident that when they perceive it, they will meet it. That is what has won my heart to this team: that for all their flailing and maddening underachieving, they can be counted on to bring it when they feel their backs are against the wall. Sometimes, that's not until they are on the brink of elimination (Orlando, New Jersey, Miami), sometimes they feel the wall at their backs earlier than that. But always, at that point, win or lose, we'll see this team's best effort. And that's all I need from them to avoid disappointment and a feeling of bitterness: give me your best effort when the sh*t is on the line. They've always done it and I'm sure they'll do that again.

What really chesses me off about James. When the refs do try to keep him honest by calling a charge or not giving him a call he puts on that stupid scowelling face and acts like someone just took his lunch money.

You would think he would be happy with all the calls he does get.

Max, you should be a member of the media because at these press conferences, all these schleps are falling over themselves asking LeBron how he "feels about his first playoff experience." Nobody ever asks a pointed question such as what you raised: "Hey, LeBron, why do you scowl every time you're whistled for a foul? Do you believe that you never commit any fouls? Aren't you happy with all the preferential calls you do get? Why do you use your off-arm to hook the defensive player every time?" Man, all these media types are Ahmad Rashad disciples.

Ahhh, the comforts of home, don't even worry about it.

Exactly right. I was thinking the same thing this morning. Getting to the finals last year was scary too.

Hurry up game 5.I 'm gonna drink a 6pack BEFORE the game...I am so anxious in aint even funny, but i lovvvve this!!!And this is where our boys SHINE!...wooooooooooo!:laugh: