http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/DET_3079.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/vs.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/CLE_430.gif

Series 2-2
Wednesday May 17th, 2006
7:00 PM

The Palace of Auburn Hills, Auburn Hills, MI

TV: TNT
Radio: WDFN 1130 AM

http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/2006-round2-det_cle-1.png
http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/2006-round2-det_cle-2.png
http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/2006-round2-det_cle-3.png
http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/2006-round2-det_cle-4.png

~~

I'm breaking out the king of rock'n roll avatar for good luck.

I don`t know about everyone else but Im still pissed about game 4. The hell I caught at work because of gaame 4 I wouldn`t wish on anyone.

Anyway, it`s over, done with. Believe it or not as long as Sheed`s ankle heals ok we will be ok. I will get worried when the Pistons drop a game at home. If and when that happens we have a serious problem.

We are capable of winning on the road, however, if we lose every single road game and win every single home game we win a championship.

Strange way to look at things but sometimes this is a strange team......

Pistons will take the next two...

i'll be back at the palace so things will return to normal and you guys can count on a victory!! :P

The real Detroit Pistons will show up for this game. I expect to see energy and offensive flow and steals and rebounds and tipped balls...and a Piston victory.

Ps 100
CBs 69
Good nite sweet Prince.

i'm gonna enjoy this game. i hope y'all do to. good luck everyone!

Time to see this thing for what it is, or has become anyway, and that is a freakin dogfight. Yeah we’re still the biggest dog on the block, but I hope the name on the tag doesn’t say G-O-L-I-A-T-H. Not many of us considered this a series that could go the distance but now its time to send the women and children inside and prepare to bring an intense battle for the duration.


Our first foray into Cleveland is history, what’s done is done, or should I say UN-done. I only hope we (Flip & Co.) have lernt from their (well ok, OUR) mistake of figuring on winning by virtue of showing up.


Hadn’t figured on having to breakout our hard earned, brand spanking, shiney new, one of a kind weapon to trump the considerable power of King James but here goes.

:laugh: :nod: H. C. A. :nod: :laugh:


Its power is omnipotent and 99.99% pure. It is the silvery lining to the “we can’t throw the ball in the ocean”, black cloud. It’s the big warm fuzzy. It bails our azzes out of Big Trouble In Little China Cleveland. What I’m saying is it’s the big stick that lets you walk softly.




Riiiiiiiing !!!!! Wakey Wakey now.
Time to release the pride, get down and dirty, and scratch and claw our way through a BEST 2 OUT OF 3. Got all summer to apologize for whatever hurt is inflicted today. We must put our hard earned advantage to good use and try to beat the fight out of the "Calves". GO PISTONS !!!!!

I expect a blow out, the starters will take control and not allow Flip to mess this up, however I've been reading and hearing some things that have made me concerned.

First, Flip said he thought the small ball unit played well at the end of last game. I guess he didn't notice that we lost, and that that unit didn't score the last 3 minutes.

2nd, Flip criticized Tay's coverage of Lebron and praised Evans', that just scares me.

3rd, Flip appears to be talking up Maurice to the papers.

4th, Evans seems to think that he's an integral part of this team. Why on earth was he mentioned more in the Freep and Detnews this morning than any other Piston. WTF is going on, am I in bizzarro world?

5th, I've still not heard from Flip, nor has a single Detroit writer asked why Dice didn't sub for Sheed.

First, Flip said he thought the small ball unit played well at the end of last game. I guess he didn't notice that we lost, and that that unit didn't score the last 3 minutes.

perhaps, but they went on a run before that to get the game close.

5th, I've still not heard from Flip, nor has a single Detroit writer asked why Dice didn't sub for Sheed.

several reporters asked, and it was the same answer about the small ball. evans' finger might be broken so we'll see how that impacts his minutes.

now you understand the enigma that is Mo Mayhem.

i'll be back at the palace so things will return to normal and you guys can count on a victory!! :P Bro Hogg, I think we prefer u at the `Palace than in the chat room. As a matter of fact, if u go tyo Cleveland friday , u can stay with my Aunt!! Whatever it takes....:laugh:

Am I the only one that thinks that Dyess has been a total puss when it comes to protecting the lane? It seems like he is always stepping out of the way or administering the lightest possible foul when LeBron drives at him.

That is why I don't mind Flip's decision to go with Mo. Evans has gotten under Lebron's skin a little bit, which means that he must be doing something right... b/c he sure isn't playing dirty.

Spanking tonight.I think we come out focused on this game not only for what happened but the players as much as they say otherwise see Miami is waiting.Hope they don't look to far ahead we still have to close this out in Cleveland we don't under any circumstances want a game 7.

Lebron has had enough taste of the playoffs time to send him home to drink some Sprite.

Chat is OPEN!

* something new tonight, the second chat room is open, if people just want to chill or hang during the game. The stress of a tight game can get to people, so we're making allowances for that. "The Lounge" has been renamed, "Coolout Lounge".

You can switch chat rooms at the top of your screen.

Chat is OPEN!

* something new tonight, the second chat room is open, if people just want to chill or hang during the game. The stress of a tight game can get to people, so we're making allowances for that. "The Lounge" has been renamed, "Coolout Lounge".

You can switch chat rooms at the top of your screen.

you're good man, you're good. perhaps we could install a buddha, or maybe better yet a bar in the coolout lounge. :)

i am pissed

Imo the pistons are playing not to lose instead of to win. So far the first half has been just like the last 2 games come out flat and double Lebron, let guys like Varejao look like all-stars while the Wallace’s and McNice play like little girls.
Getting out rebounded is unacceptable having more turnovers is unacceptable allowing desperation 3s by Damon Jones is unacceptable whining about every freakin call is unacceptable trailing 50-45 on your home court is UNACCEPTABLE!! WAKE THE F.U. Detroit play ball or kiss the trophy goodbye!!

i am pissed

Yep, I got pissed in the 2nd quarter and turned the t.v. off. This new Piston team is frustrating as ****.:frusty:

I tried to get in the chatroom, but couldn't get in. So....I'm just hangin' out waiting for Dallas and San Antonio.

Chauncey's play hurt us badly--I counted 7 times that he made a turnover type play just when we were close. We run no offensive sets any more. We will not win if we do not run plays. Flip has shown no coaching adjustments. When we finally ran a play--Hunter to Rip to Dyss late we got a layup. We try and go down low but all that did is turn Isgouskis into a shot blocker. A poor, poor plan. I never thought we would win from midway in the 1st.

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/3919/flipmo7wa.jpg
I'll clean it up when I sober up, but it's a start.

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/3919/flipmo7wa.jpg
I'll clean it up when I sober up, but it's a start.


ROFL...........Damn that`s hilarious

I'm suprised we got as close as we did.Chauncey and Dice woke up offensively somewhat.Why wait?We should have come out blazing.Flat play,no energy and no hustle.This team is not playing like they can and our backs are against the wall this game IMO was must win.No response what they think the get a free pass to the ECF?

Started out the 4th letting the Cavs build a lead again.Geez wtf?Is it over, is this it?The way this is going IF we win I don't even want to see what Miami does to us the way we are playing right now.

My faith is unshakeable; we win in 7.

ahb,
Anychance you could do a Brokeback mountain poster with those two?

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/3919/flipmo7wa.jpg
I'll clean it up when I sober up, but it's a start.

GREAT STUFF! :laugh: I am dyin over here. Needed a laugh after today's game.

ahb,
Anychance you could do a Brokeback mountain poster with those two?

lol. yeah flips man love of evans has got to stop. even lebron was laughing when evans tried to check him. delfino is the key to our comeback. he's the one piston that can go to the hole when his outside shot isn't falling.

flip getting outcoached. messing up his legacy he'll always be remembered as a coach that couldn't get it done in the playoffs.

ahb, that is classic.

Well, I learned on Chat that not having Darko and Arroyo is the reason Detroit lost this game. Arroyo and Dice's chemistry is missed so much that it has disabled the Pistons so much that they have completely regressed from fairly easy wins in games 1 and 2. I feel so enlightened now. I guess it had nothing to do with Sheed's ankle and ineffective play from Lindsey and C-Note. 'Course, Flip has been completely outcoached by Mike Brown, who keeps talking about how "great" the Pistons are. Also, the Cavs' bench has outplayed Detroit's to the point that Flip doesn't trust them anymore. No Tony Buckets tonight. Cleveland wants it worse. And that has made all the difference.

Flip's system is kickn ou' butt right now. Dude is out of his element big time....remember when we used to score out of a timout. Remember when we used to get layups and dunks from our out of bounds plays.......ahhhh Larry why'd you have to be such an unfaithful lying SOB

delfino is the key to our comeback.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

We run no offensive sets any more. We will not win if we do not run plays. Flip has shown no coaching adjustments. When we finally ran a play--Hunter to Rip to Dyss late we got a layup. We try and go down low but all that did is turn Isgouskis into a shot blocker. A poor, poor plan. I never thought we would win from midway in the 1st.

True....true.....true

god, I hate being right sometimes

ahb, that is classic.

Well, I learned on Chat that not having Darko and Arroyo is the reason Detroit lost this game. Arroyo and Dice's chemistry is missed so much that it has disabled the Pistons so much that they have completely regressed from fairly easy wins in games 1 and 2. I feel so enlightened now. I guess it had nothing to do with Sheed's ankle and ineffective play from Lindsey and C-Note. 'Course, Flip has been completely outcoached by Mike Brown, who keeps talking about how "great" the Pistons are. Also, the Cavs' bench has outplayed Detroit's to the point that Flip doesn't trust them anymore. No Tony Buckets tonight. Cleveland wants it worse. And that has made all the difference.

Don't know about making a difference but maybe Arroyo could actually move the ball and put up a few points in the process. CB looked like crap and Delk is not a true PG.

are we still the same team that believes in making the extra pass???
Remember this:
-Play hard
-SHARE the ball!!!!!!!
-Have Fun
Playing the right way has not happened all season

We're the frikkin Indy Colts

Don't know about making a difference but maybe Arroyo could actually move the ball and put up a few points in the process. CB looked like crap and Delk is not a true PG.

Does not having Arroyo really mean we shouldn't get past the Cavs in a 7-game series? That's what I'm talking about.

Lemme guess....same goddamned game plan in CLE

did anybody really think we'd win with Ben in cornrolls? I think that sent a message to our fans early and they never felt comfortable....Something is there...dont know what it is, but Ben aint there!:doh: and 0-7 will really get to him. I know his ego and that will really get to him.:frusty:

I heard the post game on the way home Today. Prince said they should have went to Dyess in crunch time. He then added that its up to the players to recognize that when the coaching staff does not see it. Then Flip comes on with vague canned responces saying the Pistons have to get back to how they were playing in the reg season.

This is not the reg season. Clev is making adjustments. They are studying game film and its getting to the point where they know what we are going to run and what we are going to do.

Bright side. Pistons have played absolutely awfull for the 3 losses and yet they were all close. Only have to get one on Fri to shift the momentum in the Pistons favor. To do that the players may need to get together and try to figure this out on their own. Because they are not getting much help from the coach.

Bad side. I have completely lost confidence in the Pistons ability to close out games. Three games in a row now the Pistons were in a position to win and blew it.

Just win game 6 and game 7 is ours - I hope... I mean this can't possibly continue - can it?

Well, I learned on Chat that not having Darko and Arroyo is the reason Detroit lost this game. Arroyo and Dice's chemistry is missed so much that it has disabled the Pistons so much that they have completely regressed from fairly easy wins in games 1 and 2. I feel so enlightened now.
don't be a fool. darko plays the pick and roll better than any of our bigs. arroyo and mcdyess had a chemistry that anybody could see. it's not coincedence that two guys that couldn't get off our bench went to another team and made thier bench great. it's not exactly the loss of those 2 players it's the thought process that nobody except the 6 starters can help us win games. we have good players on our bench.

I guess it had nothing to do with Sheed's ankle and ineffective play from Lindsey and C-Note. 'Course, Flip has been completely outcoached by Mike Brown, who keeps talking about how "great" the Pistons are. Also, the Cavs' bench has outplayed Detroit's to the point that Flip doesn't trust them anymore. No Tony Buckets tonight. Cleveland wants it worse. And that has made all the difference.

mike brown puts his bench players in the game in a position to do well. he runs great plays for them. flip is getting outcoached. i'm still hoping he is sand bagging not wanting to show his good stuff until we hit miami. if arroyo was here lindsey wouldn't need to be in the game when we need some points. if darko was here would would sub in a quick 7 footer with an inside and outside game instead of mo evans.:frusty:

Just looking at the stats... we had only 12 assists and 1 steal.
History shows the offense flows when we get easy buckets off steals.
Thought maybe I'd join in the bashing fun:
Flips couldn't coach wheelchair Basketball
It's Mo's fault
Delfino would win it fosho
Cleveland is a lucky bad team
Just renamed my dog Flip... Bang!

I know his ego and that will really get to him.:frusty:

It really gets to me too Brother, the only difference is, one of us isn't being paid millions of dollars! :mad: :mad: :mad: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

Does not having Arroyo really mean we shouldn't get past the Cavs in a 7-game series? That's what I'm talking about.

Don't get me started on that point. I am venting about the bench like I was all season long. Joe f'ed up IMO by not bring in some dependable talent. We have $3M+ worth of Davis polishing the pine. Mo Evans, is nothing more than a polished scrub. I am going mental, I need a few pills!

How does a one man show with King beat a squad of All-Stars:frusty:

did anybody really think we'd win with Ben in cornrolls? I think that sent a message to our fans early and they never felt comfortable....Something is there...dont know what it is, but Ben aint there!:doh: and 0-7 will really get to him. I know his ego and that will really get to him.:frusty:

You are right brudda who can fear the fro when it is not there. ben misses possibly his two biggest FT's the season and we are saving cap space for him next year...gimme a break!!:doh:

Bad side. I have completely lost confidence in the Pistons ability to close out games. Three games in a row now the Pistons were in a position to win and blew it.

Just win game 6 and game 7 is ours - I hope... I mean this can't possibly continue - can it?

can't close out games against cleveland. lebron is a superstar. i've never seen so many calls reversed. so many fouls called on other players after lebron doesn't like it. so many push offs to get open. jmax needs to play if nothing else but to hammer lebron one time.

flip also is an idiot. why have ben wallace in the game with 1.9 seconds to go. there will be no rebounds. if anything that was the point to go small put in delk and evans. you know somebody that can shoot. and why go to rip when he's been stinking it up all game.

mike brown puts his bench players in the game in a position to do well. he runs great plays for them. flip is getting outcoached. i'm still hoping he is sand bagging not wanting to show his good stuff until we hit miami. if arroyo was here lindsey wouldn't need to be in the game when we need some points. if darko was here would would sub in a quick 7 footer with an inside and outside game instead of mo evans.:frusty:

Make up your mind. Is Flip getting outcoached or is he sandbagging? Funny, you're calling me a fool. You said that Delfino is the key to the Pistons' comeback. You really believe that?

lebron is a superstar. i've never seen so many calls reversed. so many fouls called on other players after lebron doesn't like it. so many push offs to get open.

I feel your pain jay, and you're absolutely right, I agree with you 100%but don't let the Pistons or Flip off the hook by blaming these 3 loses on anything but their piss poor execution and lack of coaching/adjustments. The Pistons have beaten themselves 3 straight games.

The only adjustments Flip makes in game are with his crinky neck and jaw.Time to grab the wheel and drive the car Flip cuz autopilot ain't working to well.Can't believe the Cavs defense is causing this many problems.We can't lose 4 in a row can we?

Don't get me started on that point. I am venting about the bench like I was all season long. Joe f'ed up IMO by not bring in some dependable talent. We have $3M+ worth of Davis polishing the pine. Mo Evans, is polished scrub. I am going mental, I need a few pills!

we have good talent on the bench. we traded away our # 9 guy and our # 12 bench player and they go and create a great bench for another team. so i can't agree that we don't have talent on our bench. if a coach won't play the bench no reason in bringing guys in. we need to trade the whole bench for 1 superstar. someone that will get calls.

You are right brudda who can fear the fro when it is not there. ben misses possibly his two biggest FT's the season and we are saving cap space for him next year...gimme a break!!:doh:
Y'all know it wasn't Ben that lost that game. It wasn't Mo that lost that game. ahb's graphic is funny, but about 2 months late.

Where was Davis? Where was Delk?

Chauncey? Quite possibly the worst joke in MVP voting history. He didn't even deserve to be on the ballot. So many people threw Nash under the bus when the Suns went down to LA, but Nash slew the dragon named Kobe, and he looks to take down Elton Brand as well.

Sheed? First one out the door if this finishes badly. I've had it. It's not cute or funny anymore. He's bringing very little to these games.

bball jay, i like you, but you crawl out from under a rock every time this team loses, and yet are no where to be found when they win.

I think the LB mantra was "Play hard. Play smart. Play together. Have fun."

I'm disappointed in any number of people - Chauncey, Ben, Tayshaun, Rip, Sheed to a certain degree, Lindsey - but Flip being so ridiculously outcoached by Mike Brown takes the cake.

Coaches don't miss shots, but well-coached players and teams do not make this many mistakes, nor are they this poorly motivated. Good coaches command respect.

And that's without even touching his foolish rotations and criminal playcalling.

We are playing badly and that is why we lost this game but the refs giving Lebron calls he shouldn't get isn't helping the cause.

I was worried about this at the begining and even started a thread about it.

bball jay, i like you, but you crawl out from under a rock every time this team loses, and yet are no where to be found when they win.
Great point micro. It's nice to see 16mile also making a cameo appearance to troll.

and another thing..it was EVERYBODY!!

1. rip...5 of 16 and that sissy attempt at the end, just like Game 4. % of 7 at the line...3 assists and 4 TO's...
2. chauncey ...6 of 16, 5 assists-6 to's. poor defense...stupid fouls...did nothing right..one lil 5 pt spurt..so what!!!
3. ben...0-7 Ft's...4 of 9 FG's, bad shots at the shot clock...so-so D but not DPOY stuff
4. sheed...dont get me started....but aside from the fouls was actually worse with 4 BIG TO's..10 pts /9 rebounds though in 22 minutes...no reason not to come back in 4th but NO WAY was Flip taking Ben out:laugh: (sarcastic evil laugh)
5. tay...overated stats cuz the points came over 48 minutes..way spread out...bad pass on the 3 to Cb...bad shot in last seconds
6. Dice...sigh...just dont get it...where was he in 1st half?

and Bench? say whaat?..bench..say what? BENCH...what?
Flip will lose this entire city if we lose Game 6. Dont know what to predict because Flip is too unpredictable. He's slowed the game down not for defense sake, but because he doesnt WANT to use bench!!!!!!!!!!

Also, I just saw the Rip last shot play. Do WE watch film or not?? It was the same play SA ran with Horry in game 5 last year. If rip passes it back immediately, Tay is WIDE OPEN!!!!! WATCH IT WHEN YALL GET A CHANCE!
blbpblbpblblbbppblblbbbppppp!!!!!!:frusty: doe:frusty: doe:frusty: Doe:doh: !!

Bright side. Pistons have played absolutely awfull for the 3 losses and yet they were all close. Only have to get one on Fri to shift the momentum in the Pistons favor. To do that the players may need to get together and try to figure this out on their own. Because they are not getting much help from the coach.

We may be in deep doodoo. Talked to the missus (a special ed teacher, she occaisionally makes some relevant bball comments for someone who doesn't understand the game) who watched the game with me. Listening to my b--ing and watching Flip, she thinks the guy is OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), because of the twitching, and going back to the same plays and players even though they suck (her words on Evans).

If Flip is OCD, then he's simply incapable of adjusting. He may know that it's better for the team to try something different, and may even plan on it, but once the game starts, he has to go back to what his compulsion is telling him to do. His OCD (or is it man love) forces him to play Evans, forces him to play bs zone, and forces him to not to adjust or sub anyone off of the bench.

The turning play was Chauncey leaving Flip open for the tre... I was hoping Flip would have recognized that.

Remember this tme two years ago when we had the same situation going to NJ having to win or go home (LB got us in that situation?).

Bron is just that talented to win by himself... not sure if you can have 5 guys gaurding him.

Chauncey and Tay need to hit some outside shots to soften the interior defense... until that happens Flips to blame.

Well enough of that.Any positives here?Chauncey and Dice(finally)hit some shots.To little to late but Dice got some rythm back.Ummmm anyone?Anything else?In years past this team would have not lost this game.To big for our britches?Hate to say it but I agree Micro, Sheed has brought next to nothing these last 3 games he was stinking it up before the ankle.

They are to comfortable bottom line maybe not get rid of any starters but lay down the law with starting some other players when production isn't there.Get some different bench and actually play em.

I don't like to be whining about the refs, but when Lebron got his 4th foul, I had the feeling that it would hurt the Pistons instead of help. Because I thought that Lebron would have to punch someone in the face to get another one called against him at that point.

Lebron's off-arm pushoff on Lindsay to start the 4th quarter was an obvious offensive foul. Lebrons tackle of Chauncey was obvious.


One other point... did Chauncey think that the Pistons had 1 to give when he intentially fouled Lebron on the break away? B/c that was a horrible decision to give him 2 points and take himself out of the game.

bball jay, i like you, but you crawl out from under a rock every time this team loses, and yet are no where to be found when they win.

yeah. i know i was pissed about darko and arroyo and the handling of our bench in general. so i wasn't posting about the pistons at all. i'm back now and everything i said is staring to come true. it's caused me to come out from under my rock.

by the way the rock was one of the ones everyone threw at me when i said we needed to develop our bench. developing the bench is for lottery teams huh:doh:

We are playing with pressure and not doing well. Within that, we are not playing smart. We do not run plays or move the ball. So we can't get any space from Cleveland. Whenever we start to get momemtum, Chauncey throws the ball away on a break, loses it on a drive or jacks up a shot without a pass. Yes, he made some shots and needs to shoot even more. But 6-7 times he killed our momemtum.

Rip is back to his drives to the hoop that gets Ilgouskis blocks. Remember Indiana last year. We know we are in trouble so we go one on one or down low. We are good at neither. Unless we free up the offense and move the ball, we will get the same result. But we are really looking uphill because they are playing well, smart and we are playing uptight and not using our guys at what they do best.

bbaljay - Lebran got no calls in crunch time. True he got quit a few but in the end the Pistons found their own way to lose.

Micro - to be fair Nash's team was down 1-3 before he lead his team over the Lakers. Lets give Billups and the Pistons the same chance. Something about this is just not looking right to me though. Its almost like the Cavs and Pistons have switched teams or something. Or perhaps their coach did his homework and knows what to expect.

You are right brudda who can fear the fro when it is not there. ben misses possibly his two biggest FT's the season and we are saving cap space for him next year...gimme a break!!:doh: I know..KG anybody???
If we lose we can at least lose pretty!

yeah. i know i was pissed about darko and arroyo and the handling of our bench in general. so i wasn't posting about the pistons at all. i'm back now and everything i said is staring to come true. it's caused me to come out from under my rock.
We know why you are back, when people are mad, to pour fuel on the fire.

Maybe you should find that rock again. :eyebrows:

good way to let off steam on WXYT.com....they are hammering the Pistons!! Especially Chauncey and Rip with there floppin azzzsss!

Something wrong in the locker room? The last 3 games were totally out of the Pistons character.

Also, I just saw the Rip last shot play. Do WE watch film or not?? It was the same play SA ran with Horry in game 5 last year. If rip passes it back immediately, Tay is WIDE OPEN!!!!! WATCH IT WHEN YALL GET A CHANCE!
blbpblbpblblbbppblblbbbppppp!!!!!!:frusty: doe:frusty: doe:frusty: Doe:doh: !!

Saw it on the first replay with my brother and we just laughed...sadly

Great point micro. It's nice to see 16mile also making a cameo appearance to troll.

If not agreeing with your point of view is considered trolling, consider me gone.

Defensively, we are getting burned by Le Bron's passes to their bigs. It happened twice late. I have not seen any adjustment from Flip. Chauncey did that foolish double up high and Jones cans a three. They at least run sets and plays and get looks.

Flip was suppose to help this offense so that what we are seeing would not happen. This is game seven against SA all over again but worse.

Sheed is lost. We are not getting much from Chauncey. Ben takes too long to put up that shot and can't hit a free throw. Rip is fine until in tries to go one on one or drive in among the bigs.

Tay has made this respectable. We are suppose to play 5 on 1 here but it has not been that. Dyss finally woke up. We need to use him and take some pressure off of Sheed.

We may be in deep doodoo. Talked to the missus (a special ed teacher, she occaisionally makes some relevant bball comments for someone who doesn't understand the game) who watched the game with me. Listening to my b--ing and watching Flip, she thinks the guy is OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), because of the twitching, and going back to the same plays and players even though they suck (her words on Evans).

If Flip is OCD, then he's simply incapable of adjusting. He may know that it's better for the team to try something different, and may even plan on it, but once the game starts, he has to go back to what his compulsion is telling him to do. His OCD (or is it man love) forces him to play Evans, forces him to play bs zone, and forces him to not to adjust or sub anyone off of the bench. Remeber Jim Eisenriech, the Twins outfielder who twitched and flared b4 every at bat? Folks laffed at him til they found what he had and he had to retire. Flips got something (I have a social science minor) and he was so calm at PC-like he blocked everything out.....sigh

Did you guys catch the flop Rip did off LeBron trying to get a call earlier in the 4th I think?That was hilarious cuz I think Lambs taught him that one.

If not agreeing with your point of view is considered trolling, consider me gone.
Showing up to cry and rant only when we lose, is trolling. You know that.

This board doesn't run on the hysteria that plagued the Detnews last year throughout the playoffs. If you're only here to instigate, feel free to exit. Your call.

Saw it on the first replay with my brother and we just laughed...sadlyDid u se ?/Did u see? Doggone it!!!

Something wrong in the locker room? The last 3 games were totally out of the Pistons character. If u are the team and the home theme is FEAR the FRO! and your captain shows up in braids "How would your psyche feel'. ben took us out at one hour b4 game time!!

Not playing Monday morning QB, but we were screaming at the TV for this to happen DURING the game....
1-During the 4th Clev commits to switching on P&R's
2-Dyess gets hot
So now I'm saying p&R with CB and Dyess, get a lil guy on Dyess on the block and Bam, wear them out and make them adjust. So what happens, we go P&R with Ben and Chauncey:doh: .... how easy is that to defend???? Teams know that CB shoots a J on that play, he doesn't drive the lane, and you don't have to stay with BEN?!?!? on that play on the perimeter, so you make Mike Brown's job easy, "hey team trap him on the pick hard...." Duh........I'm telling y'all I am flat out amazed at the bad coaching here....I'm LOST!!!!

Defensively, we are getting burned by Le Bron's passes to their bigs. It happened twice late. I have not seen any adjustment from Flip. Chauncey did that foolish double up high and Jones cans a three. They at least run sets and plays and get looks.

Flip was suppose to help this offense so that what we are seeing would not happen. This is game seven against SA all over again but worse.

Sheed is lost. We are not getting much from Chauncey. Ben takes too long to put up that shot and can't hit a free throw. Rip is fine until in tries to go one on one or drive in among the bigs.

Tay has made this respectable. We are suppose to play 5 on 1 here but it has not been that. Dyss finally woke up. We need to use him and take some pressure off of Sheed. I yelled at my girl all night to 'Let LBJ beat us-dont double or leave your man' and the last play what did we do? Gooden had 4 f-in pts...geesh!:doh:

Showing up to cry and rant only when we lose, is trolling. You know that.

This board doesn't run on the hysteria that plagued the Detnews last year throughout the playoffs. If you're only here to instigate, feel free to exit. Your call.word Micro...thats why I tell u I stay off the News cuz its a bunch of folks who dont watch the game and have no history with the Pistons before 2004. Good riddance, Mile. This is PISTONForum ..win or lose, not just lose.

We know why you are back, when people are mad, to pour fuel on the fire.

Maybe you should find that rock again. :eyebrows:

nope. not pouring fuel just saying we need our bench.

it's my right when laughed at about my ideas to come back and poke a little fun at those that laughed at me.

word Micro...thats why I tell u I stay off the News cuz its a bunch of folks who dont watch the game and have no history with the Pistons before 2004. Good riddance, Mile. This is PISTONForum ..win or lose, not just lose.

16mile and i care about winning just as much as the rest of you. we just see the problems with the bench and the coaches lack of desire to play them when it's clear it's needed. we chime in extra when the losses come because those are the times when our points are proven. when we are just winning everybody doesn't even think about the bench.

it's my right when laughed at about my ideas to come back and poke a little fun at those that laughed at me.
We got a different group here. A lot of people who want to get away from the nonsense that plagues other boards. Folks who don't care (or know) what you wrote 6 months, 12 months or 18 months back.

Let it go bball. It spoiled the News, and I'll be damned if the same thing happens here.

Kgreg, I agree. Dyss finally started taking and hitting the open jumper. It has been there. We haven't make that defense do much what with one on ones. It was ridiculously open.

16mile and i care about winning just as much as the rest of you. we just see the problems with the bench and the coaches lack of desire to play them when it's clear it's needed. we chime in extra when the losses come because those are the times when our points are proven. when we are just winning everybody doesn't even think about the bench.WAKE UP,,,u comment on what u FEEL instead of the logic of what is actually goin on. Like Arroyo this Darko that and they aint here. And if they were, what makes u think they'd play anyway? Are u watching Flip at all?

WAKE UP,,,u comment on what u FEEL instead of the logic of what is actually goin on. Like Arroyo this Darko that and they aint here. And if they were, what makes u think they'd play anyway? Are u watching Flip at all?

yes. i watch flip. i watched lb. i watched cola. it's the same cycle of not playing guys on the bench that deserve to play. i'm not saying darko and arroyo exactly would have saved us. i'm saying we can't be afraid to play our bench. it's not just darko and arroyo just play somebody else other than the starting 6. rip missing and turning it over. ben can't hit a free throw. play evans, play delfino, play delk. we can't rebound play dale davis or jmax.

what logic is that to play the same players even if they ain't getting it done. run the same plays even if it ain't working? defend the same way whether it works or not. play the starters more if they are tired.

sigh...

For those overwhelmed with frustration over tonight's game...I direct you to the "Do You Follow Other Sports?" (http://www.pistonsforum.com/feedback-suggestions/2636-do-you-follow-other-detroit-sports.html#post29600) thread/poll in the site feedback section.


Here's to a better Friday...

The Pistons relied so much on the long ball during the season, that they didn't have clue how to work the paint for drives, short jumpers or dunks.

17 TO's in game 5 , 16 in game 4.....nuff said? Ok how bout 10 Ft's missed

We beat them to death with the 3 ball in games 1 & 2 and hit only 5 & 2 in the last two games and lose by 2 points in each!!:frusty:

Why is it our point guard can't ever find an open man under the hoop. Why is it both Rip and CB drive to the hoop from the left and Tay drives from the right?

Why does Rip pass the ball to Ben with less than 12 seconds on the clock? if he is anywhere in the paint he won't give it up:doh:

Does Ben know how to pass it to an open man when he is attempting his patentent drive and curl to the hoop that never draws iron? :confused:

What was the use of getting rid Arroyo and and then not even playing Delk or Delfino. :confused:

Sheed's foot in mouth disease has put the #1 over all seed in jeopardy of getting bounced before getting to the conference finals. Dem fighting words that didn't arouse our team, but the instead the opponent. I can only hope that he keeps his mouth shut the next two days and let his post play take action.:mad:

And finally if the Cavs take us out in 6 games, Flip need not wait to get fired he just needs to turn his palace ID card and walk off into the sunshine...never to be head from again. :violin:

SO make me a believer Phillip, I want to see you coaching next Tuesday...get this ship straight and we will win one.:laugh:

Ever seen this many close playoff games.. it's unreal.
Stern's gotta be pleased with the balance.

Agree with KGreg on using Dice & C.B. more on the P&R.
Just maybe Sheed will hit a couple post moves for a change.
Not used to see this many players off at the same time... it looks like Rip has no room to roam as they're packing it in.
I can't remember that last lob play... guess it doesn't work when you got five Cavs in the paint.
Varajeo's mobility is making it tough to use Sheed more.

Nothing a wake up call won't fix (including the coach)... I hope they're burning the midnight oil tonight.

Well look who's back....bball jay. Has he told us how we would have won with Darko sittin on the bench yet?

These last two losses (I ain't countin game 3...we ALWAYS lose that one), should be placed at Flip's doorstep. He musta left the "LBJ rules" at home. Somebody introduce him to "adjustments," willya? :frusty:

Dre, you prolly heard Flip talking about all teams are going to a 7 & 8 man in the playoffs cause of the delays in the games... but I'm with you at least for Delk... why change things that were working?... Heaven knows we could use some points off the bench (bench getting beat just about every game).
I wonder if Cleveland will use Hughes Friday.

I'd rather watch replays of robert horry all day and the spurs celebrating their championship than watch another piss poor game. One lame effort is one thing. Two in a row is pretty much unheard of. Three? At home? F this.

Fear not fellow Piston fans. We got em right where we want em.....with our backs to the wall.

Everybody cept Dice and a "sometimey" Prince was off their game tonight. That ain't happenin again. I hope. :wacko:

I'm not worried folks. We came back on Orlando, New Jersey and Miami, in recent years. So I'm not losing any sleep in thinking we can't come back on this young, very green Cleveland team.

I'm with Hatter, this is where we're at our best. When there's nothing left to lose.

Go Pistons! :nod:

was at the game. i have a LOT of thoughts on this one, but i'm going to mostly hold off until tomorrow when i'm not so upset. i definitely think we got screwed by the refs...any time we got close they called some serious crap. but again it's not the only reason we lost. and say what you will about 'sheed, at least he speaks his mind and alluded to the officiating in his postgame interviews.

this was the FIRST game that felt like a playoff game, where the fans were into it, and sadly it could be the last. and after chauncey's 3 with 4:14 to go in the 3rd, the crowd willed the pistons back into the game. it's hard to explain if you're not there, but the crowd does have that much impact.

and finally, i'm tired of varejao flopping every time and pretending he's getting hit in the face, along with his constant illegal screens that allow lebron to get full-steam-ahead drives to the hoop.

but like i said, i'll have more to say tomorrow.

Warthog
this was the FIRST game that felt like a playoff game, where the fans were into it,

Glad to hear that Warthog. On TV, it looked to me like the fans were rather subdued. Next time you go to a game, take some more hell-raisers with ya, aaiiight?

I dont get the doggin Prince bs at all. He get hot in the 3rd making 3 buckets in a row and a 3 that did not count after a foul and then he didnt get the ball because the pistons wanted to try and get Rip goin it did not make sense.
Billups wtf were you thinking fouling Lebron on that play:frusty: let him get his dunk and stay in the game.
Varejao is causing all kinds of problems Flip make the adjustments or prepare to be crucified!
Ben I love you man but you cant have my Bud Light cuz you cant make a freethrow!
Sheed hope you got a good veiw of what is going wrong from the bench cuz you need to show up for a change.


Just remember TNT's slogan "Catch all the DRAMA on TNT" I cant think of a better DRAMA than the Pistons knockin out the "king". I love the Pistons but the backs to the wall thing sux. Miami is waiting get to it.

was at the game. i have a LOT of thoughts on this one, but i'm going to mostly hold off until tomorrow when i'm not so upset. i definitely think we got screwed by the refs...any time we got close they called some serious crap. but again it's not the only reason we lost. and say what you will about 'sheed, at least he speaks his mind and alluded to the officiating in his postgame interviews.

this was the FIRST game that felt like a playoff game, where the fans were into it, and sadly it could be the last. and after chauncey's 3 with 4:14 to go in the 3rd, the crowd willed the pistons back into the game. it's hard to explain if you're not there, but the crowd does have that much impact.

and finally, i'm tired of varejao flopping every time and pretending he's getting hit in the face, along with his constant illegal screens that allow lebron to get full-steam-ahead drives to the hoop.

but like i said, i'll have more to say tomorrow.
were u guys p-o'd when u didnt see the Fro? I think it inately meant something....

Does anybody know what the Pistons record is now when Dan Crawford is officiating? They have got to realize they aren't as successful when he is out there. I'm not sure what you can do to adjust to an official (other than knowing that he will call a technical foul), but their style of play does not mesh well with his style of officiating.

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/3919/flipmo7wa.jpg
I'll clean it up when I sober up, but it's a start.

rofl...Classic! You got me to smile. :fish2::pound: I'm going to look at this picture every time I think about games 2-5.

I normally don't download games the Pistons have lost. But after all the comments in here and over at Detnews I downloaded game 3 and 4.

I made me puke.

I'm surprised Flip is still in charge as headcoach. If he would have been headcoach of one of the main soccer teams here in Holland, he would have been fired immmediately after game 4.
It amazes me that a coach or a coaching staff can get away with the same not-working-game-plan/benchrotations/...whatever.. over and over again, and not one person in the entire organisation steps up to put a stop to this. Is a headcoach some sort of God in the NBA??
The previous seasons the Pistons were able to get out of this sort of series because they were able to fight, and could rely on their relentless defense when it mattered. But I see no fighting, no passion, and defense is clearly not one of the chapters of Flip's playbook.
So please, someone in Detroit, wake up, step up and do what is needed to get this group back on track, or it will end next game.

After losses like this (these), everyone unpacks the pet complaint they've been nursing for months and eagerly airs it out as the cause of all the hurt.

Sorry, no. It's not Darko. Not Arroyo. Not the refs, or Delfino and the bench, or some issue of disrespect. Or even Flip.

This team has become a polite version of the 2004 Lakers. Arrogant, complacent, feeling entitled to things it shouldn't have to work for. And pitifully unable to cope when an opponent dares to hit back.

It's been a long time coming. Way before Flip came here, fans had noted the barking at refs, the over-reliance on stealing games at the end, the spotty internal motivation when they had a team down. But it all crystallized for me at the end of Game 5 ... when Prince served up that weak runner that got spiked like a volleyball, and Hamilton decided he'd rather try to engineer a foul than get off a shot.

Weak. Very weak.

Maybe the team proves me wrong and shows there's enough in the tank to turn this thing around. Maybe they just need to feel that cold wall pressing against their backs again, after living it up as NBA fatcats.

But we're starting to see diminishing returns here, and you can only get yourself out of trouble so many times before the bill comes due. Now it seems like a bunch of bills are coming due at once, and I find myself wondering what Joe is thinking.

We know Joe's history when guys can't get it done in the playoffs - Stack gone, Cliffy gone. What's ahead when the starters on a 64-win team can't get it done? Blame Flip all you want, but these guys think they win regardless of coaching and have said as much on many occasions. That's an attitude they've been allowed to have, so I'm not leading any Flip lynch mobs ... just wondering where that Detroit team I used to like so much has gone off to. Because I don't like these guys very much, even when they win.

LanierFan, I think a big part of that "ego" problem is Flip. All year he just works up these guys like their %%%% dont stink. All this "Chauncey MVP" crap has CLEARLY gone to his head, and Flip was first in line pumping that out. As much as I disliked some of the things LB did, he used to take this team down a notch when they played with a lack of effort or focus.

Say what you want, but part of a coaches job is to motivate the team to go out there and execute the game plan. The lax defensive rotations, the awful rebounding, the poor shot selection, etc. All of these things are issues that the coach is supposed to address. Sorry, but I haven't seen it. And I won't mention the awful sub patterns, Jumper-only playbook, etc. Since those are CLEARLY coach issues.

Sometimes, with a team that has had as much success as the Piston with the all-stars, the rings, etc, you have to take down that ego a bit. Flip doesn't appear to want to do that. He insists that his "player's coach" philosophy works. And frankly, it's going to work him straight out of a job before he knows it.

Not to say the players don't deserve a nice sized chunk of the blame, but Flip's way of coaching just isn't cutting it with these players either way. And it didn't work in Minny. Coincidentally in the same exact way. (Great Regular season. Awful post-season)

I mostly agree with LanierFan, to the point where I'm almost hoping that the Pistons lose Game 6.

But Flip is the only difference between the feared, clutch, chemistry-and-heart, "go-to team" Pistons of the last few years and this bunch of gutless chokers. It's obvious that he's being outcoached in this series, and that it's because of passive negligence rather than active misconduct doesn't make me any more sympathetic to him.

Maybe drastic changes need to be made. A shakeup of the starting 5 along with a new coach might invigorate the team.:ohwell:

After losses like this (these), everyone unpacks the pet complaint they've been nursing for months and eagerly airs it out as the cause of all the hurt.

Sorry, no. It's not Darko. Not Arroyo. Not the refs, or Delfino and the bench, or some issue of disrespect. Or even Flip.

This team has become a polite version of the 2004 Lakers. Arrogant, complacent, feeling entitled to things it shouldn't have to work for. And pitifully unable to cope when an opponent dares to hit back.

It's been a long time coming. Way before Flip came here, fans had noted the barking at refs, the over-reliance on stealing games at the end, the spotty internal motivation when they had a team down. But it all crystallized for me at the end of Game 5 ... when Prince served up that weak runner that got spiked like a volleyball, and Hamilton decided he'd rather try to engineer a foul than get off a shot.

Weak. Very weak.

Maybe the team proves me wrong and shows there's enough in the tank to turn this thing around. Maybe they just need to feel that cold wall pressing against their backs again, after living it up as NBA fatcats.

But we're starting to see diminishing returns here, and you can only get yourself out of trouble so many times before the bill comes due. Now it seems like a bunch of bills are coming due at once, and I find myself wondering what Joe is thinking.

We know Joe's history when guys can't get it done in the playoffs - Stack gone, Cliffy gone. What's ahead when the starters on a 64-win team can't get it done? Blame Flip all you want, but these guys think they win regardless of coaching and have said as much on many occasions. That's an attitude they've been allowed to have, so I'm not leading any Flip lynch mobs ... just wondering where that Detroit team I used to like so much has gone off to. Because I don't like these guys very much, even when they win.


Sensible post here. Who are these guys with "Pistons" emblazoned across their chests? Damn, I wish I could sleep. :mad:

Would I like to see Flip peel the hide off some guys? Sure. But like I said, this franchise enabled the players to feel this way. Joe hired Flip as the right guy for these guys, at this point and time. Maybe he is, I don't know. But I look at the guys on this team and see at least a few who probably have to fail before they listen to anybody.

ahb, if we're going to speculate that Flip is the only difference between last year's gutty performers and this year's bunch, don't we also have to remember the difference between last year and the year before? A championship. That's what worries me, the diminishing returns. This team hasn't handled success as well as it handled being the underdog.

BBj, I thought Buckets was to solidify our bench.
And our tight 6 were enpenetrable.
If we don't get by the Cavs either Flip or BBen goes.

This team has become a polite version of the 2004 Lakers. Arrogant, complacent, feeling entitled to things it shouldn't have to work for. And pitifully unable to cope when an opponent dares to hit back.
You're so damn right. It makes me sad that the team that's currently giving us so many fits is even more gentle, more sympathique than the Pistons.
I miss the "team is the MVP", the "going to work"- attitude that all of us love(d)- I hated it, when they had their off- games in the season and talking that fatigue- bull%%%% as an excuse for not hustle, for not giving effort. I always said to myself, ok, wait til' playofftime and now this.
Let's hope some of them find their heart again- it can't be that Dyess and maybe Prince are the only ones to show will to win it.

I do not understand the players saying that all of a sudden they cannot make shots. 3 games not being able to make shots?

Kudos to Dice for showing up, but where was he in the 3 games previous? Hunter, Delk, Evans, Davis all unused in a game that could have been stolen by pulling out all the stops.

Feeling numb today.

Flip's coaching certainly leaves a lot to be desired but I don't think that's why they are in the hole. When Flipper came aboard this team was playoff tested and had the 1 ship under their belt and very strongly felt they let the 2nd one get away. In short, they were arrogant and felt a sense of entitlement. Flip being an easy guy fell under the illusion that this team can turn it on/off anytime. A large part of it was their past record and Flip getting internal confirmation that this was a loose bunch of guys. He and most of the fan base felt the Pistons can do no wrong. Fast forward 3 losses in row and it is clear that he needs to coach this team and not let them walk their path.

They disrespected the Cavs after game 3 and Sheed continues to do so. This attitude has now come back and bit them hard. The confidence is gone and it clearly shows in the play. Props to the Cavs for taking advantage of the situation. They did what they had to do.

Going into game 6, I hope the team is humbled sufficiently enough to awaken their competitive instincts and desire to win. No promises, just go out and perform. I am getting tired of Sheed's antics.

After losses like this (these), everyone unpacks the pet complaint they've been nursing for months and eagerly airs it out as the cause of all the hurt.

Sorry, no. It's not Darko. Not Arroyo. Not the refs, or Delfino and the bench, or some issue of disrespect. Or even Flip.

This team has become a polite version of the 2004 Lakers. Arrogant, complacent, feeling entitled to things it shouldn't have to work for. And pitifully unable to cope when an opponent dares to hit back.

It's been a long time coming. Way before Flip came here, fans had noted the barking at refs, the over-reliance on stealing games at the end, the spotty internal motivation when they had a team down. But it all crystallized for me at the end of Game 5 ... when Prince served up that weak runner that got spiked like a volleyball, and Hamilton decided he'd rather try to engineer a foul than get off a shot.

Weak. Very weak.

Maybe the team proves me wrong and shows there's enough in the tank to turn this thing around. Maybe they just need to feel that cold wall pressing against their backs again, after living it up as NBA fatcats.

But we're starting to see diminishing returns here, and you can only get yourself out of trouble so many times before the bill comes due. Now it seems like a bunch of bills are coming due at once, and I find myself wondering what Joe is thinking.

We know Joe's history when guys can't get it done in the playoffs - Stack gone, Cliffy gone. What's ahead when the starters on a 64-win team can't get it done? Blame Flip all you want, but these guys think they win regardless of coaching and have said as much on many occasions. That's an attitude they've been allowed to have, so I'm not leading any Flip lynch mobs ... just wondering where that Detroit team I used to like so much has gone off to. Because I don't like these guys very much, even when they win.
This was the best post I have read this post-season. Front to back.

Sorry if I'm re-hashing stuff from earlier in the string (didn't read the whole thing.)

The team is talking about confidence and all the right things, but they're playing tight on the offensive end. Which is leading to a lot of one-on-one basketball and a lot of turnovers.

Dyess finally got some confidence in the fourth quarter last night, but he was afraid to shoot in game four. I wish Rip (who was ice cold at this point) would have looked to an open Dyess (who was hot) rather than forcing shots down the stretch.

Why, in the final seconds of a game, do we always try to force something that isn't there? Just toss the ball in the basket.

Feeling numb today.
me too. i woke up this morning.......slowly opened my eyes......i felt it coming.....the realization that last night wasn't just a bad dream :(

i still think this team is perfectly capable of reeling off two straight versus the Cavs, so hope isn't lost with me.

but man, what a crappy way to wake up this morning.

The team is talking about confidence and all the right things, but they're playing tight on the offensive end. Which is leading to a lot of one-on-one basketball and a lot of turnovers. Flip is tightening up as well. As the game gets tight, as the players are tight, he doesn't sub or call timeouts. He doesn't break the game down into manageable chunks to stall momentum shifts, or sub out a struggling player so they can regain their composure.

That is the ONE key flaw I am seeing from Flip. Per previous posts, 95% of this is on the players. I don't want Sheed to shut up (get tight), I want him to back up his big mouth. YAP and BANG THAT TRAMP!

Mr. Big Shot (in my mind) has been a lot more annoying. He plays bad and the best he can come up with is, "I'll be ready for Friday". So he wasn't ready the last 3 games? C'mon Chauncey, Damon Jones and Eric Snow are making you look like Pepe Sanchez for the love of Dele.

Pistons need to go back to their roots. Re-discover what made them a winning club.

ben being a unrestricted free agent is tying flips hands. flip has to keep ben somewhat happy. mcdyess should be playing 30+ minutes. him and rasheed stretch the defense out. the paint is clogged and no post up for tay who the cavs have no answer for. i think flip is scared to sub because he wants to be able to say it was the players not his substitions. i think jmax would be good for this series he's just way tougher than any of the cavs bigs. but yes i know young players don't play in the playoffs.

where is fino?? he's a great on the ball defender against driving players that are too fast and strong for tay. fino is similar in strength to lebron. well closer to it than tay.

i think flip needs to stop doubling lebron. we play everyone else straight up now we double lebron. it was a good idea the first 2 games but mike brown has found a way to solve it. flip needs to go back to straight up man to man. have our bigs waiting at the basket to either block or take the charge. even if they only get 2 out of 6 charge calls. doubling lebron opens up the game for verajao, jones, gooden, marshall. none of those guys can just simply score on thier own.

Even after a night of sleep....THIS IS THE GOD*AMNED CLEVELAND CAVALIERS! FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!!

This is a direct result of lame coaching. EVERYBODY, including the players, insisted they could win regardless of the coach.

HOWEVER

The ONLY time they have been successful is when they had a coach who was a strict defensive coach who INSISTED on coaching, making guys do what they were supposed to do, and focusing on the reason they were successful....DEFENSE. Even when our offense was bad in stretches the last two years, the difference was, no matter how few points we scored the opponent was guaranteed to score LESS.

Needless to say, that's the coach that everyone hates. Amazing.

If this guy gets us bounced in the 2nd round to the %%%%ing Cavs, he better be gone before the streamers hit the floor.

Kp and Micro, I agree. We have been playing and coaching tight since game 4. Dyss finally said this is basketball and took the open J's. We are so worried about how we look that we have forgotten about how to play basketball on the offensive end.

The ONLY time they have been successful is when they had a coach who was a strict defensive coach who INSISTED on coaching, making guys do what they were supposed to do, and focusing on the reason they were successful....DEFENSE. Even when our offense was bad in stretches the last two years, the difference was, no matter how few points we scored the opponent was guaranteed to score LESS.

Needless to say, that's the coach that everyone hates. Amazing.

If this guy gets us bounced in the 2nd round to the %%%%ing Cavs, he better be gone before the streamers hit the floor.
Thank you Low! My God the Larry Brown complainers hated getting to the finals two straight years, if we get dumped by the Cavs they'll have to eat their words.

If this guy gets us bounced in the 2nd round to the %%%%ing Cavs, he better be gone before the streamers hit the floor.

Why not take a few players along with him? I am equally tired of the prima-donna attitude this team has taken. Constant whinin with the refs, "we know what we got to do" BS and Sheed's non-stop mouth with nothing to show by way of performance.

LB knew what buttons to push with this set of guys but he had worn out his welcome with the players. What is LB doing with the Knicks? They are already tired of his act.

The players need to take a big share in this fiasco. Flip is not shootin 30-40% from the FG. He is not missing the easy layups or making turnovers. Doesn't mean I like what he is doing but this is not all on his shoulders. Veterans should know how to win.

good post anakin
@thelow
this blame the coach- BS sucks. It's the players who have to convert. How many times do you want to change the coach? Until no one wants to come to Detroit anymore except for scrubs? Destroy the chemistry before it even exists? No, Flip's not the one to blame.

No, Flip's not the one to blame.
There is plenty of blame to go around (including JD). The only way any of these folks can redeem themselves is to rise to the occassion.

The question is, are the Pistons able to counter the incredible momentum that Cleveland has gained, and steal one on the road in a building they have traditionally had a difficult time winning in?

Even good games from Flip, and the starting 6 might not be enough. The damage may already be done.

I know one thing. They cannot play tight. Maybe they should call up Uncle Cliffy and get him to bring some pre-game "party favors" over.

No, Flip's not the one to blame.

IF and that's a big IF we lose to the lowly Cavs how in the Hell are we going to let Flip go blameless. As Charles Barkley said last night...Flip is the only significant part of this team that has changed. Unless you think dealing Darko set us back.

I will have to dig up all the old posts at the beginning of the season when Low and some of us were very afraid of what would happen to this team after we fired a Hall of Fame coach who took us to the Finals both years. If we lose....Low's posts earlier in the year will seem very prophetic.

IF and that's a big IF we lose to the lowly Cavs how in the Hell are we going to let Flip go blameless. As Charles Barkley said last night...Flip is the only significant part of this team that has changed. Unless you think dealing Darko set us back.

I will have to dig up all the old posts at the beginning of the season when Low and some of us were very afraid of what would happen to this team after we fired a Hall of Fame coach who took us to the Finals both years. If we lose....Low's posts earlier in the year will seem very prophetic.

Bills, Flip's not the only thing of significance that has changed. The bigger change is the loss of the blue-collar goin to work attitude that was characteristic of what a Piston was.

Bills, if digging up old posts while the rest of us lament a wasted opportunity makes you feel smarter than everyone else, then go to it. At least it'll keep you occupied.

Simple answers are for simple minds. As has been said, there is plenty of blame to go around, and I'm cool with anyone who wants to include Flip in that. But blaming Flip exclusively is the same as saying that these players (not to mention the league and the opposition) haven't changed one bit since they won it all two seasons ago. Does anybody really believe that? And does anyone really believe that the Larry Brown of 2006 would have had the right answers?

BLINDING FLASH OF INSIGHT: Could it be that Larry and our players have simultaneously come down with The Right Way Syndrome - the belief that a title makes their way the only one worth considering? Hmmmmm. Symptoms appear to include pronounced swelling of heads and urinary tracts. Maybe so ....

Let's hope generous helpings of ice can at least get the Pistons' heads back to normal size.

The NBA game is painfully passing the Pistons by. The new rules are finally catching up with a grind out playoff team. Its hard to say that now when you have a team that has won 64 reg. season games. They have become arrogant and feel entitled.:frusty:

I have to give alot of credit to Cleveland, they have played the same way through out this series and since the 2nd half of game two they have stayed even Keeled and the Pistons have turned into a team expecting to just show up and win.

I for one still feel these guys can win this series I felt that way last year, and I felt that way when they were down 3-2 to New Jersey.
The same thing has happen to this team for 3 years in a row. and thier motto is "if it ain't rough it ain't right". But going back to the same well every year it will dry up. I just don't feel like there going to lose this series, but the Pistons have to feel that way too but give respect to their opponent than beat them. GO PISTONS!!!!!:fingerscr

lanierfan...you've made some good posts in this thread. My point is that last year when we made it to the 7th game of the Finals the majority of the folks in here were gnashing their teeth and wringing their hands about what a failure the season was. Larry Brown got raked over the coals and didn't get much respect for the job he did. In fact he was crucified for failure to deliver the Championship wrestling belts that we felt entitled to.

So we fast forward up to this year. Some of the same folks who wanted to hang LB from a catheter hose are giving Flip a free pass. Why is that?

I think we are still going to win this series and go on to the Finals again so it should be a mute point ....but when Low was writing his very accurate yet somewhat negative(sour) posts earlier in the year he got hooted out of the forum.

I may be getting old but my memory isn't that short.

The Heat and the Cavs would both get DEMOLISHED by Dallas/ San Antonio.

It would be a real shame if the East doesn't put forth their best team.

Winning game 6 would be a serious momentum changer. Let's hope the Stones can string together two average games.

There might be a slight misinterpretation of the posters that are sticking up for Flip... I have seen very little posts saying that Flip shouldn't share the blame... however to say this is all Flips fault sounds like a hate agenda.
After defending LB to the bitter end I finally gave in to the concept that his act was not going to be supported by the team or management.... it's very possible that the results would have been worse this year.
Then Flip comes on board and the Pistons have a record setting regular season...
We hit our first bump and the I told ya so's come out of the woodwork.... let me repeat we were in a very similar situation the last two years with LB, facing elimination on the road.

Blame the coach all you want but if you can't see the players are messing up also then you're only kidding yourself... most intellegent folks wouldn't buy that theory.

Fire the coach... fire the ...geesh get a life... this ain't gonna happen after the first year.... accept reality or move aside.

Warthog


Glad to hear that Warthog. On TV, it looked to me like the fans were rather subdued. Next time you go to a game, take some more hell-raisers with ya, aaiiight?

well it wasn't like that at the start of the game. there were plenty of empty seats and the crowd *was* louder than usual but not rabid. and the first missed call with tayshaun's block...i think that was one of the most significant plays of the game. if TP gets that block i feel it gives the cavs a seed of doubt and gives the pistons the confidence to play their game and win. instead everyone got the 'here we go again' attitude.

anyway, i mostly have questions that don't appear to have an answer.

- why put lindsey in with a few mins to go in the 3rd when it was obvious chauncey was getting hot and we needed the offense more than the defense?
- why put lindsey in at all over delk when you don't need to really guard damon jones and eric snow?
- why has delk not been used in the postseason when he created an awesome dynamic with the team, can create his own quality shot, is a great rebounder, decent defender, and is our best cold shooter off the bench?
- why did sheed sub for dice at the end of the game instead of sheed for ben? dice was 5/5 that quarter, and ben isn't going to shoot with 1.7 left. now you have 5 guys defending 3 shooters instead of 4 shooters. actually scratch that, why was lindsey in the game instead of delk? now you're down to 2 shooters - rip and sheed - because tayshaun is taking the ball out of bounds. WE HAD TWO SHOOTERS IN WITH 1.7 SECONDS LEFT IN THE GAME AND NEEDING TO SCORE?!?! THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD LINEUP IF WE WERE UP BY 2 AND HAD TO PLAY DEFENSE, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!! geez that makes me mad.
- why did we have our last offensive possession the past 2 games ending in a tayshaun jumper? (the possession last game that started with 27 seconds left). furthermore, why did we wait 10-15 seconds to shoot the ball when we're down by 2 with 27 to go?
- why has dale davis received 0 time when dice was struggling and when davis will punk anyone trying to go to the lane?
- why does varejao get away with illegal screens every time and why is this never called? why does he pretend to get hit in the face whenever he doesn't get a rebound, and why is this called?
- why has flip made no adjustements game-to-game? why not try single-teaming lebron in game 4 or game 5? i'd rather have him get 40 points and 0 rebounds rather than 21 points and 10 assists.
- why do we double-team so much in the first place? we were supposed to make one man beat us, now we're allowing their whole team to get involved and playing 5 on 5 when they have the best player on the floor. we're double-teaming which causes late rotations which leavs guys wide open, which is why we lost game 7 in the 4th quarter last year.
- why did rip not catch-and-shoot on the last possession...did he really think he'd get a foul called that late in the game? why did we stop running screens for rip in the first place?
- what happened to the pick-and-roll with sheed by the 3-point line? even if sheed doesn't shoot, he's a great passer from up top, and it forces the defenders into making difficult decisions on how to guard
- why did 1 of my two tailpipes coming out of my muffler fall off on my way home last night with a $60 pair of chrome tips when it was securely fastened and only 3 years old? should i go back and look for it even though they're probably so scratched they'd look gross anyway?
- why am i waiting over reserving plane tickets when i have a decent price and they were $60 higher yesterday, but i'm hesitant because they were $70 cheaper than the current price 3 days ago, but i run a big risk of not getting this in-between price?
- do i go to the tigers' game friday and wuss out on not watching game 6 until i know the result?

and those are my thoughts.

let me repeat we were in a very similar situation the last two years with LB, facing elimination on the road.

True to a point Merc. I'm still a believer. But on the other hand I don't think we have ever faced this type of dismal collapse before. This seems different.

My point (and I'm standing by it) is that pretty much all of the blame was heaped on LB where Flip isn't heaped on near as much. If we pull this out like I think we will that's cool because Flip will be tested by fire.

Of course the players are to blame. That's not the point. The point is that some folks look on this as an episode of General Hospital rather that a basketball series. They wanted to create a Villain last year based on soap opera journalism and hatred of the Coach's personality.

Hey if we win all is good and a new coaching hero is created...if not we have a new villain for this episode of General Hospital. It's all on the line now.

I don't know about you but I love watching how players/coaches react under extreme tests like this. Reputations are made.

Good stuff WH lol

Some excellent questions there.
The one I'd like to address is Ben play in the final seconds when you need to score... this has always bothered me... LB did the same thing.
We have seen Ben get tip backs for a 2nd chance or a O board... but it doesn't seem nearly a beneficial as keeping teams from doubling the scorers...
And I definately agree with you on Delk being MIA.
Some coaching blunders for sure.

My point (and I'm standing by it) is that pretty much all of the blame was heaped on LB where Flip isn't heaped on near as much. If we pull this out like I think we will that's cool because Flip will be tested by fire.


Flip's trash pile has been rapidly growing... but certainly not to LB proportions yet...
Come to think of it maybe only Pop & A.J. have escaped fanatical trashing this year... guess that's the nature of the beast... the coach is the last to get the credit and first to get blamed.
Weren't some folks saying this team could coach itself to the ships?... we can put that to rest.

- why did 1 of my two tailpipes coming out of my muffler fall off on my way home last night with a $60 pair of chrome tips when it was securely fastened and only 3 years old? should i go back and look for it even though they're probably so scratched they'd look gross anyway?
Don't look. It was stolen by Cleveland fans.

- why am i waiting over reserving plane tickets when i have a decent price and they were $60 higher yesterday, but i'm hesitant because they were $70 cheaper than the current price 3 days ago, but i run a big risk of not getting this in-between price?
You have homecourt advantage. Use it.

I'm counting on the Scalabrine effect to kick in for games 6 and 7. Pistons get their butts kicked and finally wake up and play Piston ball.

Weren't some folks saying this team could coach itself to the ships?... we can put that to rest.

I was definitely one of those people, I confess. I said this as they ran through the regular season mostly unscathed. I was also one of those people that wanted Nate McMillan and not Flip Saunders. Cleveland has done its homework on 'ol Flip. He can't make adjustments. Doesn't know how to coach in a pressure cooker. Doesn't make the right moves. 'Course, the players do deserve a lot of the blame, but Cleveland gets some credit, too. This is not just a physical game, it's a thinking-man's game, too.

Micro, you hit it on the head again. The damage has been done and to expect us to be able to counter after 3 games is a stretch. I am not confident. It is a tough situation.

We all are focusing on this play or that but we have been flat out out-played. The games are worse than the score. We do lack speed off of the bench--a good penetrator. But what bothers me is that we are asking our guys to do things we all know they are not good at. Like one of Warthog's questions, why is not Rip pulling up for the jumper and why is he not coming off of screens, etc.

Maybe the pressure will swing back to Cleveland--I can always hope.

Anyone have a video of the Sheed elbow to Varejao noggin that drew the personal foul and eventual tech.

I think I know why Flip is a poor playoff coach. He is too stuborn. He fails to even consider adjustments within a game or from game to game. He sticks with his favorite players no matter what the circumstances.

Why can we suddenly not defend the pick and roll?

I think there is something happening to poison the team chemistry. Could it be Ben?

Why are we not aggressive?

Why did we stop shooting 3's?

Anyone have a video of the Sheed elbow to Varejao noggin that drew the personal foul and eventual tech.
I will get this for you later. If you could post back the score of the game when it happened, that would be a big help.

I'm not backing down guys. The Pistons will somehow pull it out. :fingerscrIt cannot end like this. :frusty:

I feel sick to my stomach about this and literally have a headache :sick:. It doesn't look good at all. I'm a pessimist by nature, but the cavalry will arrive. Somehow. Some way. Just in the nick of time.:wacko:

I hate what is happening but for better or worse they are our team! I'm not predicting a victory out of mere loyalty, but the Pistons are the better team and will find a way.

:pray: Let us play our best game. (and please let the refs be neutral).

I will get this for you later. If you could post back the score of the game when it happened, that would be a big help.

Roscoe,
the infraction occurred at about 10:49 - 10:26 of the 4th qtr with a score of 73-66.

Thanks

I'm not backing down guys. The Pistons will somehow pull it out. :fingerscrIt cannot end like this. :frusty:

I feel sick to my stomach about this and literally have a headache :sick:. It doesn't look good at all. I'm a pessimist by nature, but the cavalry will arrive. Somehow. Some way. Just in the nick of time.:wacko:

I hate what is happening but for better or worse they are our team! I'm not predicting a victory out of mere loyalty, but the Pistons are the better team and will find a way.

:pray: Let us play our best game. (and please let the refs be neutral).

I'm with you Tater. The boys have uterly amazed me before, so I choose to believe they can do it again. :fingerscr

I believe too Tater...even though right now the boys are looking as healthy as Muffin the Cat. Hopefully this will just be a fading ugly memory after the next two games.

Here's my eternal optimism....:fingerscr .....We just flat out have to have our backs against the wall in order to perform at a high level. It's a HUGE conspiracy going on. See since we are favorites we have made a concerted effort to make ourselves the underdog in a controlled environment so that we can propell ourselves into a championship. I don't know why I was so upset last night, this should have been so clear to me instantly. Here I am blaming Flip for going small when we were being hammered on the boards, blaming Chauncey for TO's that killed our momentum, when all the while they were doing what was neccessary to make us underdogs, so we could become champions.....oh yeah Flip and Chauncey have made the greatest playoff adjustments of all time with this move.

I'm on the fence on this one.

We're clearly the better team, and normally this team rises up to challenges and is clutch in the clutch. But that hasn't been the case the past 3 games, which is very uncharacteristic of this team. Ok, the boys have a tendancy of taking a game off (usually game 3), but 3 in a row?? We haven't lost 3 in a row all freaking season!! And this is the playoffs. This is what the team has been working towards since the end of game 7 of last year's finals.

So which team will show up for game 6 (and hopefully game 7)?

Lets go boys. Enough messing around. Its time to get back to playing DEEEEtroit BASKETball!!!!

How I still believe

i think everyone's adequately covered the problems and i certainly don't have any substantial disagreements. as i think micro pointed out, there's more than enough blame to go around for the three losses in this series. And y'all have done a very thorough job of making sure it gets where it's supposed to go.

unlike DarthTater I am by nature an optimist. But even someone like me occasionally needs some supporting grounds for their faith -- if only to defend against those, like my students in class today, who were (sadly for such young folks) writing the team off and even looking to erode my own faith. So that's what I want to share with my friend in this post: a perspective -- however delusional it may appear to the non-believers -- from which we optimists (or reluctant pessimists) can view Friday's night's game without anxiety and even with a degree of confident equanimity.

by the way, i'm not interested in fueling further argument, so if you're interested in countering these facts with others that point to the likelihood of a Pistons loss, i suggest you ask yourself why you are so interested in finding support for your pessimism (especially since pessimism in this area hardly lacks foundation these days). i'm also not pretending that these facts -- especially concerning last night's game -- outweigh in value the fact of having lost the game. it would have been better if we'd have won.

i'm just offering a modest buffet of facts -- some of which have already been mentioned here or there (and corrections are certainly welcome as I could easily have miscounted something on the play by play script) -- from which someone so inclined might assemble a little platter of faith prior to the game tomorrow night:

Facts: (going from the more distant to the most recent past)

1.The last time the Pistons lost four consecutive games was during a stretch in the 2004-2005 season: (between January 18, 2005 and January 24, 2005 they played and lost four games in four different cities: to Orlando by 2 the day after beating Phoenix; to Milwaukee by 3; to Chicago the next day; and to Minnesota 2 days after that).

2.The Pistons were trailing Miami 3-2 last season. They won game 6 by 25 and went on to win game 7 88-82.

3.The Pistons were trailing the Spurs 2-0 last season, losing the first two games by an average of 18 points. They won games 3 and 4 by an average of 24 points.

4.The Pistons were trailing the Spurs 3-2 going into game 6 in San Antonio, where the Spurs had a regular season record of 38-3 and playoff record of 6-2. The Pistons won that game by 9.

5.The Pistons were trailing New Jersey 3-2 during the 2004 playoffs. They won game 6 81-75 in New Jersey, then went on to win Game 7 in Detroit by 21.

6.The Pistons were trailing Orlando 3-1 in the 2003 playoffs. They won the next 3 games by an average of 20 points.

7.During last night's game 5, the Pistons were trailing by 9 with 8:14 to go in the game. Over the next 20:14 the Pistons outscored Cleveland 35-28.

8.During that stretch, Detroit forced Cleveland into 10 turnovers and 33 % shooting from the floor (8-24); Detroit shot 43 % (the Pistons' unacceptable 9 turnovers have been covered elsewhere in the thread).

9.During that stretch Detroit got 25 boards (14 def, 9 off, 2 team) vs 18 for Cleveland (7 def., 6 off., 5 team).

10.During that stretch, Chauncey was 5-7 from the field and 3 for 3 from the line for 14 points.

11.During that stretch, McDyess was 5-6 from the field and 1 for 2 from the line for 11 points, pulled down 9 rebounds and had 2 blocks.

12.During that stretch, Tayshaun was 2 for 2 from the field and 2 for 3 from the line (for 7 points), with 4 rebounds (3 offensive) and 1 block.

Roscoe,
the infraction occurred at about 10:49 - 10:26 of the 4th qtr with a score of 73-66.

Thanks
http://www.pistonsforum.com/detroit-pistons-general-discussion/2720-fancy-refereeing.html

We are spoiled. Living here in :lalala: land for the past 26 years, I saw the laker fans go through the same arrogance in 2004 : "NOBODY can beat us, we will roll over the Pistons". Now we are in the same mode: How can the CAVS beat us"?

Some of us were concerned earlier in the year that we lacked the killer instinct after February, but others said don't worry about it:doh:. The team was so full of it self, and some us us too, that they didn't give any team any respect. Sheed and CB have lead charge on arrogance. They don't respect the refs either and complain/biotch and moan about every call and that's every starter. At least Dice and Hunter laugh it off.

Although we have held the Cavs to under 90 points the last 3 games, was it is not really our defense? No these guys have no offense other then king James who knows how to get to the rim without difficulty and can find the open man when he is double teamed.

Or offense is stagnant because our starters are worn out & our bench is not trusted because they didn't get enough run time this year. We spent so much time on the perimeter during the year, no one knows how to attack the paint. Now the last couple of games thay gone awy from the 3 ball because they are playing in panic mode. 35+ TO's in two games is probably a big factor too.

We all have hope that they can some how did deep down in their pride tomorrow night sand pull it out like they did in 2004 with the Nets and last year games 6 vs the Heat and Spurs.

Sports Illustrated today had a one-page article on the Pistons and whether the starting 5 should rate among the best ever. Here's a few excerpts: "Detroit's success has led some to wonder where its starting five ranks among all-time quintets. Cavs coach Mike Brown recently called them one of the best in history. Billups says, 'I gotta rate us up there in the top five alltime.' Dumars sounds a more cautionary note: 'Until this team wins multiple championships, let's hold off on those comparisons.' "


Another interesting tidbit: "After two years under Larry Brown and season under Flip Saunders, these Pistons are almost self-coached or, as Saunders puts it "self-patrolled." On offense, Billups often calls plays unilaterally. Explains Ben Wallace, 'If Chauncey calls a play and Flip calls a play from the sideline, we're like 'Hold up, Coach, we already got one.' Timeouts are akin to comittee meetings, and a bad shot is fodder for peer review. ... 'Not taking anything away from Flip but it's easy for him,' says Billups. 'We have no ego battles out there. No one is out there complaining they need more shots or this and that.' "


Obviously, the article was written before the Pistons went down 3-2. Not that any of it is untrue but I'm guessing SI would have taken a different approach if they had more time before publication. At the time of publication, the series was tied 2-2.

We are spoiled. Living here in :lalala: land for the past 26 years, I saw the laker fans go through the same arrogance in 2004 : "NOBODY can beat us, we will roll over the Pistons". Now we are in the same mode: How can the CAVS beat us"?

Some of us were concerned earlier in the year that we lacked the killer instinct after February, but others said don't worry about it:doh:. The team was so full of it self, and some us us too, that they didn't give any team any respect. Sheed and CB have lead charge on arrogance. They don't respect the refs either and complain/biotch and moan about every call and that's every starter. At least Dice and Hunter laugh it off.

Although we have held the Cavs to under 90 points the last 3 games, was it is not really our defense? No these guys have no offense other then king James who knows how to get to the rim without difficulty and can find the open man when he is double teamed.

Or offense is stagnant because our starters are worn out & our bench is not trusted because they didn't get enough run time this year. We spent so much time on the perimeter during the year, no one knows how to attack the paint. Now the last couple of games thay gone awy from the 3 ball because they are playing in panic mode. 35+ TO's in two games is probably a big factor too.

We all have hope that they can some how did deep down in their pride tomorrow night sand pull it out like they did in 2004 with the Nets and last year games 6 vs the Heat and Spurs.

Word. Hopefully the 3-2 hole which they are in will have helped deflate the balloon big time and galvanized the team. If not, they can go fishing. I am mentally prepared for either outcome tommorrow. Joe will do the needed changes in the off-season. I am just stunned by the collapse.

I figured it all out!!!!!!!!!! It is the dreaded S.I. Cover JINX!!!!!
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/magazine/cover/

Granted Ben only has a small part of the cover, but the 2 page article and S.I. Players peice on Mr Big Shot has cursed our beloved boys.

Seriously though the blame if it can be put anywhere right now it should fall squarely on the head of Joe Dumars. Our bench is being outscored by like 2-1 133 bench points by the Cavs and only 68 from the Pistons 43 of wich were in the 1st freakin game! Joe stood pat let guys that could have helped this team sign elsewhere. You seriously cant blame Flip for not having the guys he needs in order to get the job done. The best starting 5 in basketball cant play 48 minutes a game so someone has to come in and get the job done. You can say that if Flip had developed his bench more during the regular season this wouldnt be happening right now, but we "had" to have homecourt so this is the price we paid. NO BENCH HELP.

How I still believe
Great post Professor.

Professor has me believing!! Good one. I just posted this to anothr thread, but it warrants a repeat. The Odds makers still believe in Detroit.

http://www.wsex.com/line/BASKETBALL-SERIES.html

GO PISTONS!!!!!

Professor has me believing!! Good one. I just posted this to anothr thread, but it warrants a repeat. The Odds makers still believe in Detroit.

http://www.wsex.com/line/BASKETBALL-SERIES.html

GO PISTONS!!!!!

Glad the post helped RM! But I'd say keep the odds-makers' opinion on the down low for now. I wouldn't want the Pistons to know that. In fact, I'd say that our odds of the Pistons actually showing up tomorrow night (and therefore winning) increase with every single media person/oddsmaker/pundit that counts them out, and that counts them out loudly and aggressively. :) ahhhh, the paradoxes of pistons fandom... gotta love it

Dre, we attacked the paint and got nothing. We don't have that kind of team. Nor can we rely only on Sheed down in the post. Cleveland blocked 10 shots in game 5. Those were down in the paint. Most of those blocks were then turnovers. We only shot 10 threes with Billips shooting most of those--but not after the ball came back to him but right away.

Watch the Spurs or the Mavs play or even the Heat. They take threes regularly. But their offenses have a purpose. We can score but only when we move the ball and when we take the jumper. How did we score in the 4th last game? Dyss took the jumpers. We had a play from Hunter to Rip to Dyss for the lay-in.

Larry's offense was pound it in and attack and we got like 28 points for a half at Indiana last year in the playoffs. Flips offense was suppose to correct this. That is why I am totally at a loss when I see what I am seeing. A lot of it started with Sheed who lost his rythym.

And Chauncey has wanted to look good instead of playing. He has thrown the ball away at key points or gotten blocked, etc. He needs to take a whole bunch of shots but in the flow of the offense. And a lot of those shots should be jumpers. If Barrejo switches to him, he can shoot as Barrejo must give him room.