http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/DET_3079.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/at.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/MIA_799.gif

Series ?-?

Saturday May 27th, 2006
8:00 PM

American Airlines Arena, FL

TV: ESPN
Radio: WDFN 1130 AM

Your Detroit Pistons

Ben WallaceRasheed WallaceTayshaun PrinceRip HamiltonChauncey Billupshttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/ben_wallace.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/rasheed_wallace.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/tayshaun_prince.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/richard_hamilton.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/chauncey_billups.jpg

The Miami Heat (boo, hiss)

Shaquille O'NealUdonis HaslemAntoine WalkerDwyane WadeJason Williamshttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/shaquille_oneal.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/udonis_haslem.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/antoine_walker.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/dwyane_wade.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/jason_williams.jpg

Comments?
~~

After Tay's big game, I wonder if we'll see more Wade on Tay. That was, if I recall, effective for Miami in last season's ECF. Wade is effective at stripping the ball from Tay when Tay brings it up to shoot. Miami gave Tay different "looks" on defense last season and I would expect the same on Saturday.

I wonder if going back home will help the Heat's role players, i.e. everyone outside of Shaq and Wade? They went from heroes to zeroes between Games 1 and 2. If none of those guys are producing, big trouble for Miami. But we'll see...

I'm hoping we have this game. If the Heat come out strong because they're on home turf, then their role players better produce some points, because they did NOTHING last night.

Shaq n Wade will get their 20-25 + points, impossible stopping that from happening. The key is to stop the role players. As was mentioned, game 1 and 2 were totally different games. Game 1 the role players produced....game 2 they were shut down. It's simple!!! )))

GO PISTONS!!!

thankfully the heat crowd is nothing like cleveland. we can take them out of the game with some solid play.

oddly enough i'll be in canada for the weekend (windsor) and watching the game at some random bar.

The Heat took care of their business in game one. That was not their best effort in game two. The stakes go up as the Pistons try to take care of their business by getting one in Miami. My guess is that it will be game four. Which could make game three painful to watch and cause massive bandwagon abandonment. I hope that I am wrong and the Pistons find a way to bring their 'A' game every night and end this in five. That would be too easy.

Whoever moved my message to this thread, THANK YOU! :)

I hope we pull off what Miami did against NJ. That would be great because Sheed would get healed up. LETS DO THIS!

The Heat took care of their business in game one. That was not their best effort in game two. The stakes go up as the Pistons try to take care of their business by getting one in Miami. My guess is that it will be game four. Which could make game three painful to watch and cause massive bandwagon abandonment. I hope that I am wrong and the Pistons find a way to bring their 'A' game every night and end this in five. That would be too easy.

That ain't the ruff way.That would be ideal and we'd hopefully get to rest unless the west flies through the WCF.We need to take homecourt back at the very least,2 in Miami would be great.

Someone needs to powder and diaper Wade he is getting a little fussy and hopefully it takes him mentally out of his comfort zone at home.

This game is huge. More huge for the Pistons since we already lost one at home. Whoever goes up 2-1 has some slack for game 4.

We got good games out of all the starters in game 3. Whatever the Piston starters do far outweighs the bench but only 3 points off the bench just is not enough.

I'm not sure this game is huge considering that the Heat need to win both games in Miami to maintain homecourt.

Needless to say, a win is needed, and nothing would be better than ripping out the hearts of the South Beach jet set.

I'm not sure this game is huge considering that the Heat need to win both games in Miami to maintain homecourt.

Needless to say, a win is needed, and nothing would be better than ripping out the hearts of the South Beach jet set.

If we don't win then the Pistons go down 1-2 and have to win game 4 in Miami to avoid going down 1-3. For once I would like to see at least one non-must win game.

Big game. A win would take the pressure of making Game 4 a must win. Not to mention deflating the Heat a bit, their 1-0 start changing to 1-2.

Someone needs to powder and diaper Wade he is getting a little fussy and hopefully it takes him mentally out of his comfort zone at home.

I love it that the Pistons (especially Rip) are getting in Wade's head. I'm hoping we will continue to see the effects of that in turnovers.

If Tay outplays Antione and Posey we'll be in great position to win this game. If there is a player I'm hoping has a good game its chauncey because he needs his confidence beack. If he still plays crummy I'll go with one of the Wallaces to have a good game. If Sheed has a very good game on both ends that would be huge because he hasn't been able to do that with his ankle. If Ben has a great game he's cutting and making Shaq pay for not gaurding him. This also means he's forcing Shaq to hit jumphooks instead of dunks and he's boxing him out and not letting Shaq get on the offensive glass.

Prediction: 93-91 Pistons. (I was pretty close on my last prediction I hope i'm right again.)

Important that we make the extra passes on offense. No standing around. Rip should come off screens and curl. No one on one. Tay should go iso when they have Walker or Posey on him. Ben should make cuts to the basket more. Dice should penetrate and drive to the basket when Zo is on him. Sheed should make Zo pay when he's guarding him.

On defense, what else but DETROIT BASKETBALL 'lock up' DEFENSE.

GO PISTONS!

Prediction: 93-91 Pistons. (I was pretty close on my last prediction I hope i'm right again.)

The dreaded game 3.

In Miami.

Not conducive to a Pistons victory if we go by the past.

Then again, they have a history of doing the unexpected.

I predict a 12 to 15 point loss for our boys. It may be closer, but I see a loss, irregardless.

I think game 4 is the one we have a chance to win. Backs against the wall and all...you know the routine (but will we have gone to the well once too often)? That's why I think this one takes on greater importance.

I'm truly looking forward to everyone telling me how wrong I was if the Pistons win this one (a Piston victory will more than make up for any razzing).

I believe we have the better team, but I'm not convinced we've fixed whatever it was that has been tormenting us these last couple of weeks.

I'll be at work so ESPN is unavailable, but I'll be sneaking off to find a computer and checking the scores.

Go Pistons!

There is a lot of questions going into this game. 2 big ones are on the Miami Heat's supporting cast and on which Pistons will show up:grouphug:. If Chauncey starts out well I think the team will do well. Come on CB:frusty::mad::smash::mad2::yell:.

Leaving Miami 2 all should be good enough. Then it becomes a best of 3 with us getting 2 at home.
I wouldn't complain if we left there 3-1.

Darth - I wish I could say you are wrong. Given our team and how they usually play when they have breathing room in a series I can also see us blowing this one and going back behind the 8-ball.

I hope it does not happen. I hope the team met and decided that they are going to play the same way they did in the 1st 3 quarters of game 3 with lockdown D and sharing the ball on offense.

Important that we make the extra passes on offense. No standing around. Rip should come off screens and curl. No one on one. Tay should go iso when they have Walker or Posey on him. Ben should make cuts to the basket more. Dice should penetrate and drive to the basket when Zo is on him. Sheed should make Zo pay when he's guarding him.

On defense, what else but DETROIT BASKETBALL 'lock up' DEFENSE.



Jzchen's prescription for our Detroit offense in Game 3 sounds pretty good to me. Also, I am so impressed that until this round 3 Miami he hasn't even been able to see the games where he is in Malaysia. Round 1 and 2 he was getting up in the middle of the night or on line at work to join us for games this playoff season. Acclimades and accolades to jzchen. :nod:

As for myself, I just want to say "More please." So :welcome: last game to see Ben get touches and score, and to see Chauncey and Rasheed wake up some from their long scoring slumber. I'm not a numbers cruncher fan yet, but common sense tells me that if Rip and Tay are our only steady scorers we can count on game in and game out, it's an uphill road all the way. :doh:

:fingerscr I hope Sheed's ankle is working itself out the way Rip's did.:fingerscr

And I hope Chauncey will drive to the basket again, get some midrange scoring again, and build some kind of offensive flow and success for himself.

I'd really just like to see some consistent execution of our offensive game. Something we could build on for the rest of our run, no matter how long it lasts. It would be reassuring to me as a devout fan as we go forward. Plus I wouldn't be so freaked out about Flip. :ohwell:

BIG BEN! RASHEED! CHAUNCEY! OH MY! :fingerscr
BIG BEN! RASHEED! CHAUNCEY! OH MY!:pray:
BIG BEN! RASHEED! CHAUNCEY! OH MY!:D

Flip brought up something very interesting. What if we started scoring assists like in hockey, the pass that leads to an assist, I think that a pretty good way to calculate "Ball Movement" on offense. IMO a 2 man game with Sheed and CB that gets Sheed a trey is not indicative of good ball movement. Hopefully we'll see some really great ball and player movement where guys make the extra pass to get us some really high percentage shots.

Flip brought up something very interesting. What if we started scoring assists like in hockey, the pass that leads to an assist, I think that a pretty good way to calculate "Ball Movement" on offense. IMO a 2 man game with Sheed and CB that gets Sheed a trey is not indicative of good ball movement. Hopefully we'll see some really great ball and player movement where guys make the extra pass to get us some really high percentage shots.

I couldn't agree more. I think the biggest letdown of the post-season is the new one-on-one game. When the Pistons play like everyone else, they lose. When they play like the Pistons, they can't be beat by a super star or two.

I love it that the Pistons (especially Rip) are getting in Wade's head. I'm hoping we will continue to see the effects of that in turnovers.

Excatly. I don`t know if this has been mentioned but during the post game interviews Wade was sulking like a baby. He remarked, "I`m not going to be like them, I am going to give them credit" We don`t need your credit you little beotch!

That is an indication that the Pistons and the media are getting in his head. What a punk!

If anyone wants to look through the chat log (to post nuggets), PM me before noon tomorrow.

Flip brought up something very interesting. What if we started scoring assists like in hockey, the pass that leads to an assist, I think that a pretty good way to calculate "Ball Movement" on offense. IMO a 2 man game with Sheed and CB that gets Sheed a trey is not indicative of good ball movement. Hopefully we'll see some really great ball and player movement where guys make the extra pass to get us some really high percentage shots.

Absolutely KGreg! I couldn't agree more emphatically. :nod:

That Chauncey - Sheed 2 man game has its place, as do the post-up ISO's when there is a mismatch. But they are just like certain spices -- use them, but use them sparingly or they wreck the food. The most powerful Piston offense is the one that exploits the fact that four of the five starters are scoring threats from just about anywhere on the floor, and the fifth (Ben, I mean) will punish you with lob dunks and put backs if you double up to control the others. Everybody moving without the ball, the ball moving without hitting the floor: that's what makes us impossible to defend, generates high assist numbrs (and low turnovers) and high shooting percentages (including from beyond the arc). Anything that freezes the guys on the floor makes them into non-threats and then we are pretty easy to defend.

Chat is open!

I've got to lay down for a bit, so if I'm not in there, GOOOO PISTONS!

This is THE GAME for me. I will gage this as whether or not we go on to win the Finals!!!

im new but i wanna get more chat points to chat,,,i cant chat and i feel so lost

I didn't think it would be possible for Chauncey Billups to irritate me any more. I was wrong.

Just how %%%%ing hard can it be to space the floor for post entry passing?

Chauncey chucked. He chucked hard. His defense was average and as a floor general he deserves a dishonorable discharge. His passing (when he chose to pass, which wasn't damn well very often) was awful.
Rip and Delk were very good and got progressively less useful as the game went along.
Another MVP performance from TayshaunHOF. The brilliant shooting, the dominant rebounding, especially the lockdown defense...
Rasheed played well. The playcalling and passing isn't his fault. Great defense, good rebounding.
Ben played a mediocre game.
Dice and Davis played pretty good games.
Hunter and Delfino were bad to awful.

Dan Crawford deserves a mention, but not as much as usual.

Flip tried three defensive adjustments against Wade, each of which worked for maybe two to three possessions at most.

And I loved the Hack-a-Shaq. Classy move. And well-executed, too, as Prince failed to box out O'Neal after the second miss, and of course the courteous brilliance of leaving Ben on the court so that Riley could reciprocate. :tsk:

Down 2-1 again. This should not be happening.

ben wallace needs to sit. i've called it before mcdyess needs to play over ben wallace. we make a great comeback with mcdyess in the game. get it down to one and then flip brings in ben. ben can't hit a free throw and flip gives away at least 5 possessions trying not to hurt bens ego. if shaq isn't in the game ben wallace has no reason to be in the game.

As usual I missed the game, but I kept an eye on the play-by-play online. It looks like we made a nice rally early in the 4th to get back in the game, but that Miami got hot in a hurry and pulled away.

What happened? Did we use up all our energy making up the deficit? Or were we simply outplayed in the endgame?

Billups started missing and Wade went off.

Pretty much just being outplayed/a Pistons special chokejob down the stretch.

As usual I missed the game, but I kept an eye on the play-by-play online. It looks like we made a nice rally early in the 4th to get back in the game, but that Miami got hot in a hurry and pulled away.

What happened? Did we use up all our energy making up the deficit? Or were we simply outplayed in the endgame?

We got back on a couple of 3 balls by CB, and a 11-0 run to open the 4th. When we had a chance to go ahead, CB passed to Dice who came up short on a dunk and he may have been fouled. Wade goes down on the other end gets a bucket and one. The heat ran off 8 in a row and it was pretty much over.:doh:

Hmm. Miami is not simply going to go away. I think most of us already knew that, but it sure makes those 16-0? speculations before the playoffs seem highly wishful in retrospect.

I'm not sure these guys are capable of even one playoff sweep, let alone four in a row!

ben wallace needs to sit. i've called it before mcdyess needs to play over ben wallace. we make a great comeback with mcdyess in the game. get it down to one and then flip brings in ben. ben can't hit a free throw and flip gives away at least 5 possessions trying not to hurt bens ego. if shaq isn't in the game ben wallace has no reason to be in the game.

So, let's just say you get your wish and we are subsequently outscored by an additional 20 points in the paint. Will you be happy then?

Chauncey has to have confidence in his jumpshot back. He got back in rythim but he didn't move the ball around. Game 4 is on Chauncey's decision making and if I wanted a PG in a big game in the league I would choose him. Come on CB:mad:.

Guys look forward to next year when we fire flip and hopefully bring in Nate McMillan. Flip is a born loser and has no idea on how to make adjustments. Miami will win in 6 and us being the superior team. We should be ashamed of ourlelves.

Guys look forward to next year when we fire flip and hopefully bring in Nate McMillan. Flip is a born loser and has no idea on how to make adjustments. Miami will win in 6 and us being the superior team. We should be ashamed of ourlelves.


your kidding right if flip is a born loser what the hell is nate?

here's what i saw:

Offense:
chauncey did dribble too much, but I don't think he shot too much (11-17) and in the long run, especially, I was glad to see him break out; also glad to see his turnovers cut down to 1 again.

rip: didn't shoot well in the second half, but did a good job of taking the ball to the basket (though he could've finished more consistently). needs to do a better job of breaking them down from teh wing when they front the post (i.e. beating his man to create a 2 on 1 with his post player)

sheed: great second half, useless in the first. sorry that they went away from him after his little hot streak at the beginning of the second half; but if his man is gonna front, i don't thinkn he needs to push thte dude all the way out to where our perimeter players are standing. but the passing into him was weak as hell tonight.

ben: useless tonight on offense, didn't even board well

tay: useless tonight on offense, no aggressiveness at all -- like he wasn't even on the floor (1-7 shooting, 2 boards)

dyess: not quite useless, but he still looks intimidated when he gets the ball in the post, attempted to pass out several times when he was 1 on 1. didn't board (4 def. boards in 22 mins. unacceptable from him). I know he had 9 points, but he could've and should've had more -- and his mistakes perhaps were magnified by when they occurred and by the fact that he was about the only guy who was even getting the ball near the basket. *reserve the right to change my mind about his offensive game*

Lindsey, delk, delfino: whatever.

DEFENSE
non-existent except for a four minute 20 second stretch to bbegin the fourth quarter. I will give wade credit: i think he hit some tough shots. but overall, their high shooting percentage was due to the huge number of layups and dunks (or shaq bunnies) that they got.

REBOUNDING:
entire team except sheed gets an F, and even sheed gets a D on the offensive end. too many one shot and outs for us. we missed 37 shots and got only 8 of those rebounds. they missed 28 shots and got 11 of those rebounds. unacceptable.

I have to say i agree that when shaq is out (especially in the hack-a-ben period of the game) ben needs to be pulled immediately. period.

OVERALL
However, I remain optimistic (if not quite confident). Bottom line is that the 2nd quarter is where they blew it open (23-14): apart from that we lost the first quarter by 2, the 3rd quarter by 1, and actually were winning the 4th quarter until that final parade of free throws by them (wanna check the full play-by-play and game flow to confirm that impression of the fourth).

Iin other words, though we were outshot by 15 % from the floor, outrebounded by 13, and had 16 to's to 11 assists, i felt like we were in this game (and in fact, of course, we had it at 74-73 when dyess muffed the dunk -- maybe he was fouled -- and dwade came back and made a 3 point play).

this didn't feel like game 1 or game 2 to me (even though i know some will see a similar rhythm); at least definitely not game 2 cause they were never up more than 12 til the very last minute, and we got it down to 1 with a fair bit of game left (whereas in game 2 we were up 18 and they only closed the gap at the very end).

i don't know about the rest of you, but when we came down with the ball, down 1, i felt pretty good about our chances of stealing a game in which we got outplayed. as it turns out, we didn't get steal this one.

this time chauncey showed up, rip was more or less rip, and sheed showed what he can do when we get him the ball, and then tay disappeared. it's frustrating that the five starters haven't been able to show consistently, but i believe we're still gonna see 'em show up for one of these games: four guys in double figures (with rip and someone else over 20), ben around 15 boards, and another 15 or so from dice and co. off the pine. I know Miami is a good team -- I'm not underestimating them. but i think they are playing at the top of their game right now and we definitely aren't.

but my money's still on us for game 4 (and, for that matter for game 5).

Way to many blown opportunities that took away momentum defensively and offensively.How many bunnies did we miss?Overpassing out of the paint instead of going up for the dunk.Make Shaq foul you, heck there were quite a few where he wouldn't have made it he was out of position.Fumble the pass or just plain old hearing footsteps.

Oh well typical game 3 still need to come out 2-2.Chancey had a good shooting night they adjusted and really held Prince up.Better distribution and getting others involved will help.Need better decisions.

Hmm. Miami is not simply going to go away. I think most of us already knew that, but it sure makes those 16-0? speculations before the playoffs seem highly wishful in retrospect.

I'm not sure these guys are capable of even one playoff sweep, let alone four in a row!

of course those speculations were wishful, of course they aren't capable of a sweep, and of course miami won't go away.

but did anybody really expect they would get four sweeps? (i'll admit i predicted a sweep of miami before the playoffs started, but it was mostly just for show).

this team, good as they have been throughout the past few years haven't swept one single playoff series. Hell, if i remember right, they've only won two series 4-1 and they were first rounders. In fact, I think they have fallen behind in every single series over the past few years (except the finals against LA).

everything is a struggle in the playoffs for this squad. that is simply reality. has been, is now, and will continue to be. if anybody's feeling that their expectations of playoff ease have been disappointed, all i can say is that those expectations were delusional and they deserve their disappointment. all this team has ever promised (as far as what their play indicates we can expect of them at playoff time) is that they will underachieve until their *sses are on the grill. so what is there to be disappointed about? that this didn't change? for god's sake: they more or less say it explicitly: if it ain't rough, it ain't right. it's their identity, period. get used to it.

after these losses, i'm just looking to see if there's any sign that they won't be able to pull their nuts out of the fire later in the series. so far in this one, i don't see any of those signs.

dissappointing game. too much dribbling and not enough efficiency on our post passes. Flip was clearly outcoached by Pat during the 4th quarter (when Flip didn't take Ben out and they started hacking him). I don't know why flip didn't take him out when pat took shaq out.

Dice is straight scared out there. Sorry to say it, but its true. The dunk he missed would have given us the momentum to win the game. He wasn't even fouled! That was seriously a cruicial play. It would have gotten the heat on their heels. Overall...not good. Tay had a bad game, but he was due for one sooner or later, so he gets a pass IMO.

Way to many blown opportunities that took away momentum defensively and offensively.How many bunnies did we miss?Overpassing out of the paint instead of going up for the dunk.Make Shaq foul you, heck there were quite a few where he wouldn't have made it he was out of position.Fumble the pass or just plain old hearing footsteps.

Oh well typical game 3 still need to come out 2-2.Chancey had a good shooting night they adjusted and really held Prince up.Better distribution and getting others involved will help.Need better decisions.

Thats basically what happened. I said it an earlier post we'd be in trouble if Antione outplayed Tay:mad:. Don't be surprised at all if the Pistons are down 7-0 in Game 4. Yet again we're in another must win game and we have to weather the storm:frusty:. The Pistons just cam't win unless they're the underdog and it pisses me off:smash:.

After watching this game and thinking about Micro's comments about McDyess (how horrible he's been lately) in the chat room tonight, leaves me with three thoughts.

...Looking back, maybe it really was a mistake trading Arroyo (his defensive deficiencies aside). He and McDyess had developed such great chemistry running that pick and roll, especially against Miami. How valuable of a weapon would that be coming off our bench right now as opposed to what we have as an alternative?

...It's just a hunch or maybe more of a prediction. But my gut tells me that Joe D. is not going to re-sign Ben Wallace next year. Maybe there's a sign-and-trade in the future. Who knows? But, something tells me that Ben Wallace will not be on this team next year.

...How long is it going to take until Flip Saunders gets it through his head to take Ben Wallace out of the game at the end when he sees Pat Riley going to the Hack-a-Ben? I mean, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. It really is becoming painfully obvious that this head coach is completely incapable of making adjustments. Even the simplest ones as removing a player from the most obvious situations.

I have to agree with you on Flip. How stupid do you have to be to hack Shack and then leave Ben in for the obvious retaliation. Maybe this summer Ben can get Shack to give him some free throw pointers.

Chauncey has to have confidence in his jumpshot back. He got back in rythim but he didn't move the ball around. Game 4 is on Chauncey's decision making and if I wanted a PG in a big game in the league I would choose him. Come on CB:mad:.

Yeah CB got his got his shot back (11-17FG and 4-5 from beyond the arc,) but 3 assists??. You are not going to get that many assists passing to Ben. Assist to TO ratio was in the negative as the team was 11/16, which will not win that many games, but the heat did win with 11/18??? Of course their 57.6% shooting and their 50-16 dominance in the paint will beat most teams. We scored no points in the paint after that missed dunked attempt by Dice with a little less that 8 mins in the game and the score 74-73 Heat. :mad:

The key to this loss has to be the disappearance of Tay who most would agree won game 2 for the Pistons and games 6 and 7 in the Cavs series. 1-7 shooting, (the first 3 ball of the of the game) and only 2 boards. Although Sheed was having a horrible game in the first half, he still contributed 11 pts and 10 boards. Compared to Ben's 2 pts and 6 boards. (2-10 FT shooting is a bad stat that will eventually catch up with us). :frusty:

Once again Rip disappeared in the second half scoring only 4 points and Wade stepped up in the second half scoring almost 20 (35 total on a ridiculous 13/17 shooting.) The Heat beat us on at least 4-5 alley oops as Ben, Dice and Sheed were caught flat footed a number of times including being outboarded by 13.:doh: Walker's, post game comment indicated that they think they can get that alley opp all night and they will exploit it.

Listening to Mad Dog Carter on NBA TV, he suggests the Pistons adjust to a zone, and see if that can reduce those Heat points in the paint. Anything may help

Actually professor, the Finals win was also 4-1.

Anyway, their identity used to be Goin' to Work. This whole If it ain't rough, it ain't right stuff seems like nothing so much as an excuse to keep other teams in the series longer than is necessary.

I haven't seen any of the three Miami games and you have, but I have my doubts about this series. Against Cleveland, down 3-2, I was convinced the Pistons would pull out the victory in 7. But against the Heat, before this series even started, I didn't feel good about it. The Cavs are totally inexperienced, and not really that good a team besides. The Heat are completely different -- highly motivated, experienced, well-coached, with lots of weapons.

If the Pistons insist on giving more ground than is necessary to a team like this, they are going to lose.

Yeah CB got his got his shot back (11-17FG and 4-5 from beyond the arc,) but 3 assists??. You are not going to get that many assists passing to Ben. Assist to TO ratio was in the negative as the team was 11/16, which will not win that many games, but the heat did win with 11/18??? Of course their 57.6% shooting and their 50-18 dominance in the paint will beat most teams. We scored no points in the paint after that missed dunked attempt by Dice with a little less that 8 mins in the game and the score 74-73 Heat. :mad:

The key to this loss has to be the disappearance of Tay who most would agree won game 2 for the Pistons and games 6 and 7 in the Cavs series. 1-7 shooting, (the first 3 ball of the of the game) and only 2 boards. Although Sheed was having a horrible game in the first half, he still contributed 11 pts and 10 boards. Compared to Ben's 2 pts and 6 boards. (2-10 FT shooting is a bad stat that will eventually catch up with us). :frusty:

Once again Rip disappeared in the second half scoring only 4 points and Wade stepped up in the second half scoring almost 20 (35 total on a ridiculous 13/17 shooting.) The Heat beat us on at least 4-5 alley oops as Ben, Dice and Sheed were caught flat footed a number of times including being outboarded by 13.:doh: Walker's, post game comment indicated that they think they can get that alley opp all night and they will exploit it.

Listening to Mad Dog Carter on NBA TV, he suggests the Pistons adjust to a zone, and see if that can reduce those Heat points in the paint. Anything may help

Those calls by the refs when we were down by 1 cost us our run. Dice was fouled and Wade hits an AND 1 where he barely gets hit. I'd rather win Game 4 than game 3 so you can have the series tied either way, but if you win Game 4 you have momentum for the 5th game. However it worries fans in must win games. This team isn't moving the ball and Flip is going to have problems when he gets older because he keeps all his anger bottled up inside. He's already starting to twitch. we had a lot of bad calls and Flip needs to send a message to the refs that he won't have it. I hope we start to trap Wade. It worked so well so many times. I say we pull it off early and see how the rest of the team responds.

i hope i didn't sound like i was attacking you, 1989. your post was just the occasion for an overreaction to the enraged disappointment i anticipated would be all over the forum after tonight's game.

Actually professor, the Finals win was also 4-1.

right on, thanks for the correction.

Anyway, their identity used to be Goin' to Work. This whole If it ain't rough, it ain't right stuff seems like nothing so much as an excuse to keep other teams in the series longer than is necessary.

actually, i think -- media designations and fan identifications aside -- both of these have been aspects of the team's identity, on and off, throughout the past four years or so (the lakers final was the only really easy series, and it was easy i think because everyone thought it would be hard). I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "necessary" here. necessary for what? for the team to win series'? but they've still been doing that so far. i don't know if i'd call it an excuse so much as something like a neurosis, and one that's been there since they fell back of orlando 3-1 in 2003, right alongside going to work.

I haven't seen any of the three Miami games and you have, but I have my doubts about this series. Against Cleveland, down 3-2, I was convinced the Pistons would pull out the victory in 7. But against the Heat, before this series even started, I didn't feel good about it. The Cavs are totally inexperienced, and not really that good a team besides. The Heat are completely different -- highly motivated, experienced, well-coached, with lots of weapons.

i have my doubts about this series too. they just don't outweigh my confidence. and i agree that miami is better than cleveland. i just don't think they are better than the pistons. I do acknowledge that they are close enough to detroit to take the series if we don't pick it up. but that's my whole point: i think we will pick it up. and i don't think miami will win the series, which is all i really care about.

If the Pistons insist on giving more ground than is necessary to a team like this, they are going to lose.

again, i'm not trying to be combative, but i'm really not understanding what you mean by "necessary" here.

i don't know, man, it''s just who this team is, and it's frustrating to me too, but, as i have said ad nauseum on this forum (my own form of insanity, no doubt), i can't do anything about it, and -- given that the signs could point more or less either way -- i'd rather choose to believe they're gonna pull it out.:ohwell: doubts just don't help me enjoy the games even a little bit. but to each his own pleasures, so i should probably just let it go... :)

Maybe this summer Ben can get Shack to give him some free throw pointers.

They both need to let Rick Barry teach them how to shoot free throws underhanded like he used to, to improve their percentages, so they can stop embarrassing themselves at the line and killing their teams every game.

A few years back, Rick Barry was actually teaching Shaq, but when push came to shove, Shaq changed his mind because he was embarrassed to go out on the floor and actually use the technique because he was afraid he would lose his "street cred."

That just goes to show how selfish some players really are. Unwilling to go the extra mile for the better of the team.

The shot chart is hideous. Look how many shots we took in the paint:sick:.

Pistons/Miami shot chart (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=260527014)

My link isn't working:ohwell:. We all saw how many shots we didn't take inside.

4 fast break points for the Pistons? I don't even remember seeing any. And this is a team that we should be forcing the action against.

Also, did we get a single dunk this game? Ben, Rip, Chauncey, Tay, No. Sheed? I don't remember one. McDyess, don't think so. I can't EVER remember a Pistons game without 1 dunk by us. That is some weak sauce.

Overall, this was a pretty non-emotional game from the Pistons. Sheed needed to get T'd up or something.

The NBA does not "mind" if the Pistons win game 4, so it will probably happen. Then, we are in the driver's seat once again.

The shot chart is hideous. Look how many shots we took in the paint:sick:.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=260527014

The bad part is that we took 2 in the 4th and missed both!!!

All is cool professor, all is cool. :)

Re: Miami. I agree that we are better than the Heat when we are at our best. At our best, I don't think anyone in the league can hang with us -- not the Heat, not the Mavs, and certainly not the Suns. But we're not playing at that level with any consistency.

Re: Inconsistency. This crew has never exhibited that primal quality required to kill a team and put them away in 4. They never will. That's fine. But, I contend that there's a difference between not having the extra gear required to destroy a desperate team on the ropes, and showing up only every other game. This last phenomenon is not something I ever really associated with this Pistons team until these playoffs.

Re: What is "necessary". What is "necessary" in my opinion is a consistent effort from one game to another. Even with such an effort, the team may need to go the distance, or even come out on the losing end. I can live with that. But without a consistent effort, they lose games "unnecessarily", to say nothing of losing my support.

It's the way we're palying that makes me more angry than the loss. We had to stoop down so low that we had to pull off the Hack a Shaq. That's not how basketball is supposed to be played.

Re: Inconsistency. I contend that there's a difference between not having the extra gear required to destroy a desperate team on the ropes, and showing up only every other game. This last phenomenon is not something I ever really associated with this Pistons team until these playoffs.

there is a difference, no doubt and it's a useful distinction to draw. my question in that case would be how many guys have to "show up"? Because for me the thing of late has been that one guy shows up, and then another disappears (like chauncey showing up tonight, and tay disappearing; after chauncey having been gone for several games, and tay having been strong).

It's a rough guesstimate for sure, but I'd say we are most definitely not talented enough as individuals to win against top teams when only 1 guy shows up. with luck, we'll win occasionally when only 2 show up, depending on which 2. then, we tend to win most games when 3 show up. and dominate when 4 or more show up. Tay, for example, has been huge of late. But I don't agree with people who see his showing up as the key to our success. I think it's more critical important that Chauncey, Rip, and Sheed show up (assuming of course I'm not allowed to just have everyone show up). Tonight, Chauncey was pretty much there the whole game. Rip was there the first half. Sheed was there the second. I'm just kinda watching these games to see who is getting close...

miami really didn't beat us by much tonight, despite playing at home, despite huge games from wade and shaq, despite that we really had only 1 full guy, and 2 half guys show up. Of course, that doesn't make this a necessary loss -- on the contrary it proves your point that this was an unnecessary loss. but it doesn't make it for me a disheartening loss.


Re: What is "necessary". What is "necessary" in my opinion is a consistent effort from one game to another. Even with such an effort, the team may need to go the distance, or even come out on the losing end. I can live with that. But without a consistent effort, they lose games "unnecessarily", to say nothing of losing my support.

10-4. I can accept that definition of an "unnecessary loss". But I'd still maintain that unnecessary losses have been a fairly regular part of this group's playoff history going back to 2003. Perhaps not to the degree we've seen since game 3 of the Cavs series this year. But the unnecessary playoff loss is not in my view new to this year's squad. And i guess, finally, that i don't need them to bring consistent effort to maintain my support. i've said lots of times that it's part of what endears them to me. their inconsistency makes them feel a lot more like me; as, i'd like to think, does their reliability when the chips are down (even or especially because the holes they climb out of are self-dug).

again, i'm not trying to be combative, but i'm really not understanding what you mean by "necessary" here.
I believe the sentiment is that the Miami Heat are only so good of a basketball team (namely, theoretically not as good of a basketball team as the Pistons are), and so, if the Pistons play at the top of their game, can only do so much/win so many games in this series. That's "necessary" and unavoidable. When the Pistons play below that point, beyond anything directly forced by Miami, they unnecessarily make things a lot more difficult on themselves.

The unnecessary playoff loss is not in my view new to this year's squad.
Okay, that's fair. Everybody has off-days, even in the playoffs. But until this year, they never occurred frequently enough to get on my nerves.

And i guess, finally, that i don't need them to bring consistent effort to maintain my support. i've said lots of times that it's part of what endears them to me. their inconsistency makes them feel a lot more like me; as, i'd like to think, does their reliability when the chips are down (even or especially because the holes they climb out of are self-dug).
Hey, that's cool. I can respect that. :)

I guess our definitions of "when the chips are down" are somewhat different is all. I certainly don't expect them to go 82-0 in the regular season -- I take off work early if there's not much going on -- but as soon as the playoffs start is when I expect them to go into "maximum" mode.

After watching this game and thinking about Micro's comments about McDyess (how horrible he's been lately) in the chat room tonight, leaves me with three thoughts.

...Looking back, maybe it really was a mistake trading Arroyo (his defensive deficiencies aside). He and McDyess had developed such great chemistry running that pick and roll, especially against Miami. How valuable of a weapon would that be coming off our bench right now as opposed to what we have as an alternative?

...It's just a hunch or maybe more of a prediction. But my gut tells me that Joe D. is not going to re-sign Ben Wallace next year. Maybe there's a sign-and-trade in the future. Who knows? But, something tells me that Ben Wallace will not be on this team next year.

...How long is it going to take until Flip Saunders gets it through his head to take Ben Wallace out of the game at the end when he sees Pat Riley going to the Hack-a-Ben? I mean, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. It really is becoming painfully obvious that this head coach is completely incapable of making adjustments. Even the simplest ones as removing a player from the most obvious situations.

All interesting and good points Zoso. We'll see what happens with Ben.

Total bummer about tonight.

I can handle losing but I hate bad attitudes. Rasheed and Ben should just grow up.

Is it to late for us to take Wade instead of Darko with our pick??:fingerscr

I haven't read every line of the CBA yet, but can't we use a do over or something?

I can handle losing but I hate bad attitudes. Rasheed and Ben should just grow up.

What specifically are you talking about?

The Heat beat us fairly easily which has me very worried. I know we got to within a point but we never stopped their attack and you knew that our offense would fold at any time. We scored 83 points--that is 7 straight low scoring games. Teams seem to know how to stop our offense.

Flip's adjustments on offense were to make everyone pass some to Ben down low. Not that good an idea. He should have anticipated the hack a Ben. Wade is torching us. Other teams do much better with him.

Unless we have another gear, we could be in trouble. We don't have a quick guard off the bench to capitalize on their slowness. We can't run on them to break them down.

I would use Davis and Cato early to take fouls on Shaq and force them into using Wade early. On offense, Tay should bring the ball down as he is a mismatch in the open floor for them.

I am not worried at all. All we need is one game on the road. it is even better to have game 4 than having game 3 for one simple reason: get the momentum home.

Why am i not worried?


We played bad, we were in the game for about 3 and half quarters.
CB's confidence is BACK. this will make a difference.
we were very close dispite the fact that Prince had 3 points.I can list 10 more reasons. You heard my words, Game 4 is ours.

There is no place for wade on this team. i wouldn't trade neither Rip nor CB for him. so too late to ask this question. Unless he wants to start from the Bench:)

what a loss.
- Wade missed only 5 shots, that's awesome- he was unstoppable for us.
- Ben was useless, we can't afford having im in the game in the crucial moments- how freaky is that!??!?! If the game should be close, every team can play hackaben and we'll lose. This ain't funny, this makes me more worried than anything else
- Tayshaun may be fatigued, it was just a question of time
I don't want the team to lose this series against fat Shaq and his Minime (how is that written?)

Is it to late for us to take Wade instead of Darko with our pick??:fingerscr



Coincidentally, in Rob Parkers column today, he wrote that D. Wade may not automatically sign with the Heat. I'm a big Wade fan. He's the enemy during this series, but if things continue as they are...

What a game. What a boring, waste of a night game.

I never thought the Pistons had a chance in this one. Contrary to what a lot of folks have written, this wasn't about killer instincts or lack of desire.

They simply ran into a better Miami squad and didn't have the best game themselves. It makes the Game 1 "fatigue fest" all that much important, because stealing one in MIami is not a given.

Back to the Heat, they played great. Shaq in particular dominated the "painted area" and Wade was hotter than the dayside of hell.

We're in a tricky situation because Rasheed's ankle injury has taken away a lot of his mobility. He's not able to get lift on shots (at times over jumping on 3s) and his lateral quickness has totally disappeared.

Hence, he racks up fouls faster, and can't contribute on offense.

Which would all be fine if McDyess could come in and give 25 minutes of quality play, but he's been terrible. For every made shot, he's given up an open look for a likely turnover, and defensively, he's always just that fraction of a second late that guarantees the call is on him.

But even with Dyess not playing very good, we still have Dale Davis right? Nope. Maybe it's a conditioning/rhythm thing but when Davis didn't challenge Shaq physically and lost position, forcing him to hug foul, I realized what a complete waste of money he is. I can freaking hug foul Shaq for CHEAP, and I'm a pretty tenacious rebounder to boot!

The only help Davis is going to be in this series, is to eat up fouls. The guy is so far out of his prime, and SLOW that we'll never see Elden Campbell type defense out of him. He simply cannot make Shaq work for his shot.

Anyway, it is what it is. These are the guys we have, those are the guys they have, the series is 2-1 for the Bad Guys and Game 4 is a must win.

We need Tayshaun and Ben to produce offensively, and we need to draw fouls early. Anything less, and we're out.

Oh yeah, and one more thing.

WE NEED TO RUN AND TREY BOMB THE HECK OUT OF THESE SUCKAS.

I am not worried at all. All we need is one game on the road. it is even better to have game 4 than having game 3 for one simple reason: get the momentum home.

Why am i not worried?


We played bad, we were in the game for about 3 and half quarters.
CB's confidence is BACK. this will make a difference.
we were very close dispite the fact that Prince had 3 points.I can list 10 more reasons. You heard my words, Game 4 is ours.

I agree with you. Important that we have CB back. However, he still need to average 8 asst a game which is a rare thing since the playoffs started.

We need more from our forwards. Sheed, Tay and Dice need to do more both offensively and defensively. We NEVER expect Ben to be scorer since Dumars got him here from the Magic and don't think we can make him one now. So, points from our forwards is critical. Defensively, Ben definitely need help. Ben already has his hands full with Fatty and therefore we got to keep the driving penetration from Wade and Walker. We should try forcing Wade to drive to his left, not at the center or his right.

Game 4 is definitely ours.

Disappointed with the loss but have no expectations for this team going forward. If they win, great, if they don't, they don't. It seems as if the fans have more emotional involvment with the team than the team deserves. This team has not shown the passion, focus and team work of prior Pistons teams. Maybe its Flips fault for not demanding a tasking work ethic, but I will let him slide a bit on this as in many sports veteran teams need minimal coaching. IMO this lack of playoff performance is largely due to the fact that the team is slowly becoming a collection of growing egoes. A team can lose games but it should NEVER EVER be outworked. Defense is all about effort, not rocket science.

On the practical side, every game it seems as if 2-3 of the starting 5 completely disappear. The Pistons are literally playing short handed against teams with 1-2 legitimate stars who show up in almost all games.

DREW SHARP ARTICLE IN THE FREEP
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060528/SPORTS03/605280719/1051

I am not worried at all. All we need is one game on the road. it is even better to have game 4 than having game 3 for one simple reason: get the momentum home.

Yes, but getting that one game is going to be extremely difficult. We won't get it the way we are playing now.

Why am i not worried?

We played bad, we were in the game for about 3 and half quarters.We've played poorly for what? 6+ of the last 8 games? How can we overlook that?

CB's confidence is BACK. this will make a difference.It wasn't enough last night.

we were very close dispite the fact that Prince had 3 points.Yes, we made a run, but losing by 15 is not close.

I can list 10 more reasons. You heard my words, Game 4 is ours.

We need to win game 4 or it's over.

I'm officially VERY concerned.

It's the way we're palying that makes me more angry than the loss. We had to stoop down so low that we had to pull off the Hack a Shaq. That's not how basketball is supposed to be played.

I agree: Ben's free throws suck, Sheed isn't in the paint, not enough Delfino, etc. While all these things may be true, the thing that really bugs me is the WAY they are playing. No plays. One pass, then shoot. Ride the hot hand... I hate it. I want to see the pass that leads to the pass that gets the assist. I want to see consistent ball movement and consistent defensive effort. Is that too much to ask?

Ride the hot hand... puhleeze.

:mad:

Which would all be fine if McDyess could come in and give 25 minutes of quality play, but he's been terrible. For every made shot, he's given up an open look for a likely turnover, and defensively, he's always just that fraction of a second late that guarantees the call is on him.


mcdyess has been playing well. he comes in and brings it offensively which is the area the pistons have been struggling. his turnovers are a result of trying to do too much in limited minutes. i think if mcdyess was getting a sure 30 minutes he would settle down and really get rolling. it's obvious that nobody on the heat can check him. mcdyess always gets a lot of bs calls i dont' think they are all because he's a fraction of a second late.

if anybody has been terrible it's been the dpoy. he's getting dogged by shaq and only getting 6 boards in 30 minutes. mcdyess got 4 in 25 and added 9 points. i think the heat know where our weak link is and they are attacking it. it's ben wallace and flip doesn't want to hurt ben's ego so he lets miami have their way with us. ben needs to sit simple as that.

mcdyess has been playing well. he comes in and brings it offensively which is the area the pistons have been struggling. his turnovers are a result of trying to do too much in limited minutes. i think if mcdyess was getting a sure 30 minutes he would settle down and really get rolling. it's obvious that nobody on the heat can check him. mcdyess always gets a lot of bs calls i dont' think they are all because he's a fraction of a second late.

if anybody has been terrible it's been the dpoy. he's getting dogged by shaq and only getting 6 boards in 30 minutes. mcdyess got 4 in 25 and added 9 points. i think the heat know where our weak link is and they are attacking it. it's ben wallace and flip doesn't want to hurt ben's ego so he lets miami have their way with us. ben needs to sit simple as that.

It's not Mcdyess okay. The whole team is playing like crapp. I agree with the BS calls though. When we were down by 1 Dice got hacked on a dunk and then he tried drawing a charge on Wade and he gets called for a blocking foul. I hate NBA refs:mad::deadhorse.

The dreaded game 3.

In Miami.

Not conducive to a Pistons victory if we go by the past.

Then again, they have a history of doing the unexpected.

I predict a 12 to 15 point loss for our boys. It may be closer, but I see a loss, irregardless.

I think game 4 is the one we have a chance to win. Backs against the wall and all...you know the routine (but will we have gone to the well once too often)? That's why I think this one takes on greater importance.

I'm truly looking forward to everyone telling me how wrong I was if the Pistons win this one (a Piston victory will more than make up for any razzing).

I believe we have the better team, but I'm not convinced we've fixed whatever it was that has been tormenting us these last couple of weeks.

I'll be at work so ESPN is unavailable, but I'll be sneaking off to find a computer and checking the scores.

Go Pistons!

Nice call Tate. It was a 15 point loss. Lets hope you're right for Game 4:fingerscr:pray:

A the risk of whipping a dead pony, Flip seems incapable of making in-game adjustments. :ohwell: We got beat mainly because they fronted our forwards and we never could solve it. He never adjusted.

They adjusted to our beating their pick and roll by grabbing Ben every time he touched the ball. We never countered.

There is not much you can do when Shaq is rolling like that but we let Wade get into a rhythm. We should have knocked him on his butt a couple of times. Rip didn't seem to cover him as tightly as in game 2.

Why wouldn't they try Cato on Shaq? He is bigger than Davis or Ben. Let him burn up some fouls and make Shaq work a little harder.

Why do we continue to bring the ball up so slowly? Wouldn't it make sense to bring it up quick to make Shaq run the floor.

Why did we take out Sheed when Zo came in? He owned him in game 2.

The managerial mistakes are very frustrating.:doh:

congo, nice to see you around! ;)

All of the mistakes are frustrating. Hunter seals the Game 2 win, and the hardly plays in Game 3.

Evans plays all year, and has been shooting excellent in the playoffs.

No run.

I'm at a loss. I really hope someone writes a tell-all about this season so we can find out what is what!

There had to have been a lid on that basket. Tay and Dice had easy break aways and missed. Sheed is ticked at Flip now. That only means he's going have a very lousy game or a very great game. Please let it be a great game.

Nice call Tate. It was a 15 point loss. Lets hope you're right for Game 4:fingerscr:pray:

I'm not predicting a victory himat. I just think we have a better chance to win it than game 3 because I expect the team to play much harder.

I'm not predicting a victory himat. I just think we have a better chance to win it than game 3 because I expect the team to play much harder.

Oh...:pout: