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Series 1-2 Miami

Monday May 29th, 2006
8:00 PM

American Airlines Arena, FL

TV: ABC
Radio: WDFN 1130 AM

Your Detroit Pistons

Ben WallaceRasheed WallaceTayshaun PrinceRip HamiltonChauncey Billupshttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/ben_wallace.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/rasheed_wallace.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/tayshaun_prince.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/richard_hamilton.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/chauncey_billups.jpg

The Miami Heat (boo, hiss)

Shaquille O'NealUdonis HaslemAntoine WalkerDwyane WadeJason Williamshttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/shaquille_oneal.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/udonis_haslem.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/antoine_walker.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/dwyane_wade.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/heat/jason_williams.jpg

Comments?
~~

Game 3 is over. :fingerscr:pray: lets hope Pistons win Game 4. If we lose this one imagine whats going to happen. I don't even want to think about it:fear:

Well, he we are again, in a must win situation. Miami is playing like a team that is hungry, yet that`s what we heard from the Pistons all year long.

Wade is healthy this year and the sting of not being able to contribute in game 7 last year has motivated him in this years playoff. Shaq has looked like the Shaq of old at times, and heaven help us, GP, Walker and the role players are playing a huge part in the series thus far.

This game will be the most difficult to win for our Pistons. Down 2-1 to a motivated, hungry Heat team that is playing well. They will sense blood and will not let up. Going down 3-1 to this team will put a brutal ending to an "Indianapolis Colts" like year.

So, the Pistons better be firing on all cylinders for this one. I honestly cant say who will win this one. However, I do know we need a good effort from all our starters, not just one or two.

I will not watch the Finals if Detroit is not in it, just wouldn`t be the same.

Well Sheed is ticked at Flip from what I here. Aparently he didn't call enough post plays for Sheed when Haslem was on him. Well if this is true take Haslem in anyway Sheed.:mad:

Well Sheed is ticked at Flip from what I here. Aparently he didn't call enough post plays for Sheed when Haslem was on him. Well if this is true take Haslem in anyway Sheed.:mad:

I wonder if that was the reason that he was sitting at the scorers table by himself during that timeout.His injury has affected him,even so he is still a force inside at 80% or whatever he is.It has to be frustrating for him but the more we go along you start to see little signs that this team is losing it's glue.

We need a big night from everyone,more energy and more plain old "we want it".No prediction here,but I like our chances it's a must win down 3-1 and stick a fork in us.

I understand of course why game 4 is being called a "must win"; and I certainly go along with the idea that it's much harder to win the series if we go down 3-1.

However, strictly speaking, must win only applies when it's an elimination game. And I dont think that's just me talking. As perverse as it seems, even to me, this club doesn't seem to recognize "must win" unless it is an elimination game.

Of course I hope I'm wrong this time, or at least that they win it whether or not they see it as "must win" and I do expect them to bring it and even, I guess, to win Game 4. But I won't be shocked if we come back to the Palace down 3-1. And I won't be shocked if from there we come back to take 3 straight, ugly hard fought games.

I understand of course why game 4 is being called a "must win"; and I certainly go along with the idea that it's much harder to win the series if we go down 3-1.

However, strictly speaking, must win only applies when it's an elimination game. And I dont think that's just me talking. As perverse as it seems, even to me, this club doesn't seem to recognize "must win" unless it is an elimination game.

Of course I hope I'm wrong this time, or at least that they win it whether or not they see it as "must win" and I do expect them to bring it and even, I guess, to win Game 4. But I won't be shocked if we come back to the Palace down 3-1. And I won't be shocked if from there we come back to take 3 straight, ugly hard fought games.

I can see that happening, but I wouldn't prefer it. That could very likely happen though.

Of course I want Chauncey to get points especially down the strect, but every time in the playoffs when he scores 30 or more we lose. I hope we see a 20 and 8 game out of him on Monday instead of a 30 and 3 game.

Chauncey is a good PG as long as the opponent is NOT scheming exclusively to stop him. He doesn't have the kind of game Nash does where he can dribble all around the paint, in and out for 15 seconds until a cutter comes free.

i don't agree. One day the must win will go out of our hands and we will be out. Game 4 is an elimination game to us. We need to WIN it.

I understand of course why game 4 is being called a "must win"; and I certainly go along with the idea that it's much harder to win the series if we go down 3-1.

However, strictly speaking, must win only applies when it's an elimination game. And I dont think that's just me talking. As perverse as it seems, even to me, this club doesn't seem to recognize "must win" unless it is an elimination game.

Of course I hope I'm wrong this time, or at least that they win it whether or not they see it as "must win" and I do expect them to bring it and even, I guess, to win Game 4. But I won't be shocked if we come back to the Palace down 3-1. And I won't be shocked if from there we come back to take 3 straight, ugly hard fought games.

i don't agree. One day the must win will go out of our hands and we will be out. Game 4 is an elimination game to us. We need to WIN it.

Well, for one thing, I would say that's already happened -- last year in Game 5 of the Finals. In retrospect, wasn't that a must win game?

On the other hand, I would have said Game 5 against Cleveland was a "must win" and yet we didn't (and yes, i know, miami is much better than cleveland, but we were playing even worse against cleveland in games 3, 4, 5).

Anyway, Ii the Pistons win game 4, what'll happen in Game 5? Will they have momentum, home court, and go up 3-2? Can we be sure? Or will they relax, thinking they've regained HCA, and lose to a motivated Miami team in Game 5? either way, how could we know how that will afffect a possible Game 6 in Miami, or a Game 7 back in Detroit?

that's why I take the strict definition of must win: it's must win when you must win or you are out. anything else is pure speculation based on factors that are too variable to make for dependable predictors.

alternatively, my view is that every game is a must win and that we've already blown it by losing two must win games in teh series.

that's why I take the strict definition of must win: it's must win when you must win or you are out. anything else is pure speculation based on factors that are too variable to make for dependable predictors.

alternatively, my view is that every game is a must win and that we've already blown it by losing two must win games in teh series.

I dig ya man.I guess from my point of view and other people have said this that we've gone to the well too many times.So I guess I see this as a must win because I don't feel we reel off 3 straight from Miami.But like you said and this applies to this team to a T;too many variables and we are basically to unpredictable to form a conclusion of what might happen other than it won't be easy when it comes to the Pistons.

Not by correct definition a must win but if we do lose game 4 I guess every game after that is.

I think any of these final scores will make us happy.
Ps 100
Hs 96
Ps 96
Hs 92
Ps 90
Hs 86
Not too close such that we are biting our nails.

Well Sheed is ticked at Flip from what I here. Aparently he didn't call enough post plays for Sheed when Haslem was on him. Well if this is true take Haslem in anyway Sheed.:mad:
That couldn't possibly be the reason, cause it's too much like what I was yelling for.

One good thing we can see this game. At least from our point of view. A couple of calls could go our way. I don't think they want this series to finish in 5 they want it to go the distance.

I dig ya man.I guess from my point of view and other people have said this that we've gone to the well too many times.So I guess I see this as a must win because I don't feel we reel off 3 straight from Miami.But like you said and this applies to this team to a T;too many variables and we are basically to unpredictable to form a conclusion of what might happen other than it won't be easy when it comes to the Pistons.

Not by correct definition a must win but if we do lose game 4 I guess every game after that is.

I agree. People can call it what they want. "A rose by another name..." and all.

Bottom line: If they lose tonight they are in some awfully deep doo doo.

I saw the Tigers knock off the Cardinals in 1968 after being down 3 games to 1, but I do not believe it will happen in this series.

Within the realm of Possibility...certainly.

Highly improbable...IMO...yes.

Win game 4! Please.

This is a do or die game. If the Pistons don't do, I might die!!! :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

well, apart from whether or not this is a "must win" game ;)

i certainly don't think it's reasonable to expect an easy win. even supposing the pistons bring their "first 40 minutes of game 2" personalities, the heat aren't going to roll over, not at home. they've just as much of an interest in winning this game as we have, obviously, not wanting to face a best of three without home court against a team that (assuming we will have) is regaining its rhythm.

i'm terrible at predicting scores, but i'd say we ought to get into the upper 80s or better yet low mid 90s for the win, and they'll be mid 80s to 90...geez that was noncommittal!!

i'm terrible at predicting scores, but i'd say we ought to get into the upper 80s or better yet low mid 90s for the win, and they'll be mid 80s to 90...geez that was noncommittal!!
The trend is first one to 90 wins.

Today I want:
12 times down, 13 times up, 0 dunks, <4 lay ups, and a bunch of times to the stripe.

Tay and Sheed with 19 FTA

to not be discussing officiating during the postgame

Billups with 13 assistices

Ben with 16 boards

Dice with a double double

Lenz with 5 steals

Delfino and Mo with 9 minutes

I want Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess to combine for half of the Pistons' FGA.

Alright onto game 4. Here we go again - another must win game. Lose this and the Pistons are extremely doubtfull to comeback.

Game 3 was about Riley effectivly adjusting to Ben and Prince. Taking away Bens post-game by sending him to the line and throwing different defensive looks at Prince. Time for Flip to adjust and actually stay ahead of the curve for a change.

Ben also seems to be trying to motivate the team to step it up. He cannot guard Shaq and still be there to bail out the rest of the team. Its too much to ask of any one player no matter who are.

At least Billups is back to his old self again. Time to find something that works against Wade and to get Sheed more involved. I would also stop using Delfino and go back to Evans. Delfino would have worked if he had not spent so much time on the bench. You can't rot a guy for so long and expect him to come in stop Wade and contribute offensivly like he used to do before the banishment.

And time to help Ben out and not let your guy glide right to the hoop. Wade will get his and Jay Williams is very quick but no excuse for letting players like Payton, Posey, etc.. have it so easy at times.

This game could quickly take them from the outhouse back to the penthouse (insert playmate jokes)... a loss and they're hanging over the Grand Canyon...
Running out of new material... unless you want to hear about Cato's ingrown toenail... this game can't come soon enough...tic tock.

This game could quickly take them from the outhouse back to the penthouse (insert playmate jokes)... a loss and they're hanging over the Grand Canyon...
Running out of new material... unless you want to hear about Cato's ingrown toenail... this game can't come soon enough...tic tock. Tick Tock, LET'S ROCK THE CLOCK.

THIS IS IT.

I am pumped. I am crazy. I want to punish these wimps from South Beach. I've got warpaint on (use your imagination) and we're collecting scalps in chat tonight. No prisoners. Storm the Bastille, raze their villages, plunder their livestock (for non-sexual purposes)!!!

We need to see more of this stuff...

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WORD!!Micro..........Wehhl , here's how I prepped up:
1, Had to work 8 hrs today at Holiday Pay
2. Came home...ran 2 miles, worked out 30 minutes
3. Took a shower, thought of Army Girl in the Psycho scene coming at me with a knife (She-reekREEk Reek REEK!)...thing is...I LOVED IT!
4. Went to the Forum...just saw Phat Albert hit a 3run HR vs Astros...man-crush!
5. Started a new flavor beer...for change of pace,,,Shiner's (A texas beer)
6. I hope the team is as intense as we are!!!!!!!
Remember this:

" Hey...I luv U Guys!":nod:

Chat is open.

Rally 'round the family.

Of course I hope I'm wrong this time, or at least that they win it whether or not they see it as "must win" and I do expect them to bring it and even, I guess, to win Game 4. But I won't be shocked if we come back to the Palace down 3-1. And I won't be shocked if from there we come back to take 3 straight, ugly hard fought games.

This playoff Piston team, unfortunately, does not look like the same Piston team that could weather a 3-1 deficit and work back, it's very sad but realistic to admit this.

That being said, I consider tonights game a MUST WIN for this team!
GO PISTONS!!! Come back to the Palace 2-2 and destroy this Heat team!! :fingerscr

Plus we always do our thang on ABC!!! We can ...we will!

I'm pretty nervous- a win is extremely important (as always) since I don't think this team's able to bounce back and avoid elimination like in the CLE series-
the Heat are better than the Cavs and the motivation after a loss would be way down since it seems to be on a low level already.
I want to see the no-fly-zone again, Wade can't score that easily, that's just sick, that ain't Detroit basketball. Shaq shouldn't make more than 20pts, get him some early fouls, make him word hard for every basket.
If Sheed or Ben should be playing poorly--> roll' the Dice, Flip!!! If Tayshaun runs out of Gas without doing anything--> get Fino in!!!
If CB plays poorly, we're having a serious problem- he barely needs to step up since he hasn't shown being worthy all these MVP- considerations in the postseason.
one last sentence-
I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THIS TEAM BECOMING A WEAKER VERSION OF THE 2004 LAKERS. I WANT TO SEE THE FUNDAMENTALS THE FANS LOVE EM' FOR:
HEART
HUSTLE
DEFENSE THAT MAKES EVERY SO CALLED STARPLAYER AFRAID OF DISAPPOINTING THE MEDIA

Chauncey was just interviewed on NBATV... he gave the game plan...

Start the game posting up himself, Tayshaun & Sheed... play the inside out game instead of settling on jump shots.
On Wade... send someone at him early...agressive traps try to take the bal out of his hands... with some "clean hard fouls"
On Shaq try to push him out just a little farther instead of letting him get into his low post sweet spots (good luck with that one).

Chauncey was just interviewed on NBATV... he gave the game plan...
Start the game posting up himself, Tayshaun & Sheed... play the inside out game instead of settling on jump shots.
On Wade... send someone at him early...agressive traps try to take the bal out of his hands... with some "clean hard fouls"
On Shaq try to push him out just a little farther instead of letting him get into his low post sweet spots (good luck with that one).
Ben could always "goose" him. The only problem is, his hand might get swallowed up in the fatty expanse that is Shaq's humungous rump. :laugh:

:fingerscr Looks like another nail biter game. I have confidence in this team, I hope they do too. Their offense isn't going well so far, come on Pistons!!!

how does flip just stand there and watch the lead grow to 10 without calling a timeout.

Once again Lindsey Hunter's decision-making was notably better than Chauncey's, except for 5-6 plays at the beginning of the third quarter. Lindsey was faster than Chauncey at initiating the offense, and actually got the ball to the wings and post in positions where they could make plays or score instead of make turnovers and throw up fadeaways.

I have nothing but good things to say about Dale Davis. A hard foul on Wade - I could kiss the man.

The Pistons' team defense was abominable throughout, and the times Flip went to zone to bail them out made me sick.

But, and this "but" was the nail in the coffin, that fifth foul on Rasheed was absolute, complete, %%%%ed-in-the-ass by the NBA, unmitigated goddamn bull%%%%.

I'm sure there's more, but I don't have the stomach to go into it just now. This team is well and truly done.

how does flip just stand there and watch the lead grow to 10 without calling a timeout.

It's commonly referred to as "The deer caught in the headlights" syndrome.

:eek:

Flip stinks as a coach maybe they can get Laimbeer next season. The best thing he did was go to the zone in the 3rd and the Pistons took the lead so what does he do then, go back to man to man. To many Pistons were affraid to shoot the ball, Ben all the time and even Rip on the break against Shack. Take it right to him and make him foul. I can't stand to watch them anymore. Where is Elden? Why didn't Joe bring him back this year?

A comeback being 3-1 down against the Heat while possible is not realistic. Looks like the Pistons will be heading for an early offseason. Not really upset like previous game. The writing was on the wall for this team and coach. Flip doesn't have the respect of his players and the players themselves forgot how to execute. God, I hope this team is not a one hit wonder. Everything is measured in championships.

I remember back to a year ago, when we were calling out LB for being out coached, not making the right subs at the right time and for having such a stagnant offense.

:mad2:

Well, look what difference a year has made. LB is long gone and Flip is being out coached, is making bad/no subs and our O is vomit inducing.:puke:

The only difference is that LB knew when to take a time out, and when he did, our next possesion was almost always automatic points.

:frusty:

I guess all those assumptions about Flip Saunders is correct. He is an excellent regular season coach, lousy at playoff coaching that involves game to game adjustments and establishing a good player rotation.

There is a co-worker who repeatedly said that when it comes down to it the Pistons will miss LB. He said this even when the Pistons looked like world beaters during the regular season. I thought he was nuts.

I have to face this guy tomorrow morning. Is he a freakin prophet or what, I might ask him what the lotto numbers will be this week.

Well after saying that I still believe this series will go 7 games, only God knows what will happen in that 7th game. I know for a fact it will not be over in game 5 at The Palace. If it does end in game 5 Joe D should fire Flip during the post game interview and start shopping CB immediately.

It seems CB and Flip were the only ones on the same page. Overall Chancey`s play and Flip`s coaching caused turmoil on the court, resulting in confusion and controversy.

I will watch the NBA Playoffs until the Pistons are eliminated and then my basketball season will be over.

I just received a new `78 Throwback Piston Jersey, I am embarrased to wear it at the moment.

Of course I hope I'm wrong this time, or at least that they win it whether or not they see it as "must win" and I do expect them to bring it and even, I guess, to win Game 4. But I won't be shocked if we come back to the Palace down 3-1. And I won't be shocked if from there we come back to take 3 straight, ugly hard fought games.

This playoff Piston team, unfortunately, does not look like the same Piston team that could weather a 3-1 deficit and work back, it's very sad but realistic to admit this.

That being said, I consider tonights game a MUST WIN for this team!
GO PISTONS!!! Come back to the Palace 2-2 and destroy this Heat team!! :fingerscrWhy did Micro leave u out? I dont know..He wwas real NyQuil/Preperation Xish 2nite,,,thanks to Flip!!!!

The only difference is that LB knew when to take a time out, and when he did, our next possesion was almost always automatic points.
Yeah, LB was great for that.

Anyway, we're down 3-1, and this is pretty much as "rough" as it gets. Our boys have often been at their best with their backs to the wall, so I'm looking for some real fight from them on Wednesday at the Palace.

The series isn't over until someone wins 4, and that last win is often the toughest to come by.

Flip lost this team but he isn't to blame. We knew what a jerk Rasheed was before he got here but we won so we ignored it.

We new Chauncey was not a great player but he got lucky against a fighting Laker team.

We new Ben Wallace was a great defensive player but his attitude has been suspect in the past.

We new this all before we started losing.

Why did Micro leave u out? I dont know..He wwas real NyQuil/Preperation Xish 2nite,,,thanks to Flip!!!!
She knows why.

The recipe for this loss exist... smooth jazz and some time with a loved one... this too shall pass.. gnight all :^)

Here is my two cents about the game and series:

1) Whatever one may say about Larry Brown, he was able to get his players to play his system and to excute it well, especially in important games. Flip is not in the same league in that respect. You might not like LB's substitutions, his two-foul rule, his offensive sets, and so forth, but he is far superior to Flip in getting his players to do what he wants them to do.

2) Larry also understood that defense wins championships. Under Flip, this team lost its single-minded commitment to defense. Offensively, we were better under Flip during the regular season than we had been under Larry. But at this stage in the playoffs, the defensive intensity of a well-coached team like Miami is neutralizing much of that regular season offensive efficiency.

3) Hubie Brown (the TV commentator) has said repeatedly that it is our offense that is failing us in this series, as we are only averaging in the low to mid-80's in the last two rounds. I think his analysis is wrong. It would be interesting to compare our offensive production in this series with our production in the 2003 and 2004 playoff runs. I suspect that our point production in the last two playoff rounds this year would compare favorably with those figures. It is our defense that is off.

4) I thought the turning point in this game was when Billups got called for his fourth foul while Wade was bottled up on the sidelines with 1.5 seconds on the shot clock for Miami. Dumb foul. Billups was taken out and that really deflated us offensively.

5) Who was with Shaq when he made that end to end layup? Whoever it was got in front of Shaq just before he shot. But instead of colliding with Shaq and commiting a foul that almost surely would have prevented the basket, the player just ducked out of the way and let Shaq score the easy layup. I know that colliding with Shaq when he is moving full speed would be extremely punishing, but somehow I think a Piston in that situation last year would have made that defensive sacrifice.

Gosh man......this is sad. It's been a good run. I see us losing next season in the 2nd round and then the rebuilding will begin. Bye Sheed, Bye Chuancey....Good guys, good players, no way we pay them though.

we had it going early. even though the game LOOKED ugly, we were attempting to execute our offense correctly. In the first half it was all ugly and filled with sloppy possessions, but we were trying. All that was missing was the timing and rhythm,through alll that we were only down 6 at the half.

Come the third qtr we got our rhythm, we got our timing, we got our lead......it was beautiful, ball movement, player movement, ball reversal and the extra pass was leading to GREAT SHOTS!!!!!!!!!! Then we started chucking treys off the first pass as certain players felt as if the early third qtr play implied that they had the hot hand.......INSTANT RELAPSE....after that it was over....we went back to the 2 man iso BS with no off the ball movement. While our opponent was very focused and knew exactly what they wanted to do, we looked dazed and confused.

When the game got into the fourth I knew we were done. We no longer have A TEAM ORIENTED OFFENSE to execute that'll get us good shots, we have a scheme that puts too much pressure on 1 guy to make a play, we don't have that guy....Miami does...and his name is Dwayne Wade. In the end I was hoping we could have closed the game strong and had something positive to carry over to game 5, but even that was not to be.

The team we're looking for has not been here all season, Folks This Is Our Team Now. We are so far removed from "Playing the Right Way" it ain't even funny. The contrast from this year and last years team is so obvious it ain't even funny. When you play "Ride the Hot Hand" ball you make statues out of the other teammates, now we have a team that has no rhythm as a unit. They're waiting for somebody (an individual)to get it going and carry us over....NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, nobody on this team is that good individually, we don't have a LeBron, Wade, Dirk...and unlike Kobe - Wade won't screw up the game plan to allow us to come back. It's been Fun......Amir were looking for ya buddy, not many wins, but the kid should make it interesting to watch, then we can play the "What if we kept he and Darko together" game........Man I can see the threads now.

I want yall who havent worked or based your survival on TEAMwork and having a trusted and expirienced leader to PLEASE hear me:
When I went to Operation Desert storm, we send our Major who was in charge of Personnel resources( a secretary) to man our base. He had no infantry or combat expirience and neither did his Sargeants. So as a Corporal (who came over from Infantry at 101 Airborne) I was put in charge of Sanitation, Mail, Transportation and Physical Fitness. Another guy helped in establishing a perimeter. One day I had to take that major to a meeting across the desert. the first thing he did when he got in the truck was to take a rag out and wipe the dust off HIS side of the vehicle. Dust? when people were trying to survive. We just didnt believe in him...like no one believes in Flip. Just listen to his PC,,he sounds like a creep,,,a loser...like someone who has never been to war.................:mad:

She knows why. I just thought u were kinda wound up tight 2 night, my bruddah,,,,,but that aint your fault though. This is worse I've felt since Uncle Cliffys no show vs New Jersey!!

I remember back to a year ago, when we were calling out LB for being out coached, not making the right subs at the right time and for having such a stagnant offense.


I loved LB's game plan...I totally understood it, and it totally fitthis team. Coach knew that we weren't going to win a 'ship with the 8th an 9th man. we would win when 7 guys totally understood and thrived in their role. Guys thrive with consistency, they know when they're coming in, they know when they're going out, they know what plays to execute, they are working towards a purpose that when perfected, fit this team like a hand in a glove, now we wearing the OJ glove aaaaaannnnnnddd "if it don't fit....no championship" I really miss the philosophy that shot selection should ALWAYS be based on time and score. This game we totally did not get it, matter of fact we haven't gotten it for a while
Time and Score
Time and Score
Time and Score

I know that colliding with Shaq when he is moving full speed would be extremely punishing, but somehow I think a Piston in that situation last year would have made that defensive sacrifice.

I agree with everything said but the Shaq collision. I just don`t think at that point in the game taking a head on collision with Shaq was an option.

7-1 340 Lbs? I dont think so!

I hope there are at least 3 more games in this series and we can turn this around, but our bad play vs the heat go back to that game in the regular season when Wade closed out the game with the 17 points. We have not been able to contain him since even though we did win a regular season game and held on to win one playoff game. That gave them confidence and as much as no one wants to admit it, they have gotten better and we have not. They are hungrier, play with more intensity and agressiveness than we do. We complain and make silly fouls and dare someone to make a jumper instead of challenging it.:frusty:

If we play a zone, I think we can handle them and Wade, but if he scores in the 30's, it looks like a win for them. He made unbelievable shots, but the killer is he almost took as many FT's (19) then we took (22). Like I said a zone may at least reduce his Ft'sand, and 1 opportunities.

We have to play smart and make the pass when it is there. Rip had a horrible game tonight, five TO's no points in the 2nd half and 4-15 shooting. Those 3 straight bad passes including the one that led to the coast to coast layup was a morale buster for Rip and he was invisible the rest of the game...at least until he knocked down Wade in the end. The foul discrepancy was huge, but the Heat missed 19 FTs, so we cannot blame it on the refs.


The bad is that we started off the 3rd qtr 19-11 and only scored 21 after that to lose by 11. A good time out by Riley cooled us off, but when the heat made their run and went up by 8, Flip was too late in calling the TO to stop their run. And the killer is, we came out of the TO with a poorly executed playthat we couldn't cash in. That has happen too many times in the Flip post season era, which may be his last if we had a say so, ..if he does not get us to advance to the finals

I'll argue the defense issue all day long. We had trouble getting stops, but we have been incapable of making shots, and it has progressively got worse. You can't score 80 points and expect to win game in and game out. The league has changed. You need speed, you need playmakers and you need depth. All three things were lacking.

Sure you need stops. But if you can't score off of stops, you're just prolonging the inevitable.

I hope there are at least 3 more games in this series and we can turn this around, but our play vs the heat go back to that that game in the regular season when wade close out the game with the 17 points. We have not been able to contain him since even though we won a regular season game and held on to win one playoff game. That gave them confidence and as much as no one wants to admit it, they have gotten better and we have not. The are hungrier, play with more intensity and agressiveness than we do. We complain and make silly fouls and dare someone to make a jumper instead of challenging it.:frusty:

If we play a zone, I think we can handle them and Wade, but if he scores in the 30's, it looks like a win for them. He made unbelievable shots, but the killer is he almost took as many FT's (19) then we took (22). Like I said a zone may at least reduce his Ft'sand, and 1 opportunities.

We have to play smart and make the pass when it is there. Rip had a horrible game tonight, five TO's no points in the 2nd half and 4-15 shooting. Those 3 straight bad passes including the one that led to the coast to coast layup was a morale buster for rip and he was invisidble the rest of the game...at least until he knocked down Wade in the end. The fould discrepancy was huge, but the heat missed 19 FTs, so we cannot blame it on the refs.


The bad is that we started off the 3rd qtr 19-11 and only scored 21 after that to lose by 11. A good time out by Riley cooled us off, but when the heat made their run and went up by 8, Flip was too late in calling the TO to stop their run. And the killer is, we came out of the TO with a poorly executed playthat we couldn't cash in. That has happen too many times in the Flip post season era.
This is the reason we lost . 4th qtr...AGAIN... 27-18...nuff said!

I'll argue the defense issue all day long. We had trouble getting stops, but we have been incapable of making shots, and it has progressively got worse. You can't score 80 points and expect to win game in and game out. The league has changed. You need speed, you need playmakers and you need depth. All three things were lacking.

Sure you need stops. But if you can't score off of stops, you're just prolonging the inevitable.

In the end this team will not out talent anybody at this stage of the playoffs. Everyone needs to show up to win. One of the downsides of not having a true go to guy or go to guys.

I'll say this....to pass the reigns of the league over to Wade and Lebron is by no means the worst thing in the world to have happen. As Piston fans we were/are lucky, we're kinda like the Rockets, Snuck a 'ship in while MJ was gone. We got one in between the Shaq era and the New Kids on the Block era.

That said I believe we can win game 5, and that's all we really have to do

This is the reason we lost . 4th qtr...AGAIN... 27-18...nuff said!

Truth be told that's the real hurt and horror in all this. We're losing games in the 4th which is a clear sign of no mettle, which scares a Piston fan to death. If nothing else we could grind out 4th qtr wins, now........Heaven Help Us.

Matt Dery just gave me a shout out on WDFN. I emailed him to complain about the foul disparity. LOL.

we should bring back the teal for the rest of this series. It least we could mentally lump this crap with the rest of forgetablenesses.

I'll argue the defense issue all day long. We had trouble getting stops, but we have been incapable of making shots, and it has progressively got worse. You can't score 80 points and expect to win game in and game out. The league has changed. You need speed, you need playmakers and you need depth. All three things were lacking.

Sure you need stops. But if you can't score off of stops, you're just prolonging the inevitable.

The team concept worked for awhile, but as you can see, you need a superstar like Wade, Labron, Shaq, Dirk etc, just to get the extra call when your shot does not fall. For wade to get more points at the line (15) then any Pistons with the exception of prince who matched his total with a piston hight of 15 is a shame and riduculous.

Yeah Micro, 90 points is the Pistons magic number and for the last 9 games we are only averaging 80 and have lost six on them. 4th quarters have been killers as our guys are either to tight or to tired. But I also worry when we have less than 45 points at the half whether we are leading or not, because usually that means we probably didn't play smart offensively in the first half. If we had scored 90 points in every game in the Cavs series that would have been a sweep and I guarantee we would have won game 1 of this series.

We need some slashers and somebody who can play inside and make FT's when they get fouled. To bad we didn't have enough money to keep Memo and James along with Sheed.

we should bring back the teal for the rest of this series. It least we could mentally lump this crap with the rest of forgetablenesses.

How about we wear the red unis and everyone show up in red?? Can't because the heat will wear their reds. Maybe alll the fans show up in white ala the heat fans. and don't let the fat lady sing...put Anita Baker in the starting line-up and save Aretha for game 7.

I think we have a superstar....Ben. Imagine starting lebron james and all you do is post up verajo and making Lebron play defensive stopper. You ain;t going very far and your star ain't gonna be happy.

We went away from our identity and Ben got upset. Then ben got more upset. By not it doesn't matter what ben thinks...we're all upset.

Well, this has been coming since the middle of the Cleveland series. Why? I don't know. We do not have a deep enough team and not enough speed in the line-up at any time. While the offense has been stopped by Cleveland and Miami who have studied it, what now bothers me is the defense. No way Wade should be getting into the lane time and again. That must mean we simply do not have enough speed on the floor. It also means the coach can't adjust.

Our adjustments tonight? Go into Tay time and again early. In the second, we pass while driving to the hoop leading to turnover after turnover.

Once or twice we got the ball out of Wade's hands but usually he dictated what he wanted to do. We fouled a whole lot of people but until late second quarter, they weren't named Shaq. No way we should lose like this. Miami is better but not like this. Even miami is surprised how easy it is. It is going to be a long summer.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9849/flipistonhistory3pm.jpg

Wonder if Joe D wishes he'd drafted Wade instead of Dorko? Glad Flip was brought in to shore up the offense. I can see it's really working. :ohwell:

It also means the coach can't adjust.

Do you mean that Flip does not have the players to make defensive adjustments that would stop Wade, or that he does not have the coaching smarts to make those adjustments?

"Strange things happen," Pistons coach Flip Saunders said. "One play can change a game, one game can change a series. Basically, what we've got to do is come up with that play at home and try to change the series."

Really, one play is gonna do it, Flip? This smacks of desperation.

:frusty: :mad: :doh: :faint2: :noidea: :mad2: :yell: :hurt:
sorry, i'm lost for words

"Strange things happen," Pistons coach Flip Saunders said. "One play can change a game, one game can change a series. Basically, what we've got to do is come up with that play at home and try to change the series."

Really, one play is gonna do it, Flip? This smacks of desperation.
Flip is not a CHAMPION....he's in over his head right now. I'm glad he tried to get this team on track in this game, but he just does not understand what it takes to get it done at this level. Pop knows, D'antoni don't, Avery knows, Riley knows......Miami vs Dallas, got root for Wade on this one, Just cause I hate Devin Harris. Dude ruined too many nights for me when his badgers would come into Crisler and beat the crap out of my wolves, while the Maize and Blue losing was nothing we hadn't grown accustomed to over the past decade, I just hated the way Harris did it, I mean he's 14 yrs old for crying out loud....what??.... you mean he's 24...BS....lemme see some ID.

aiight Pistons, lets just win game 5, please, if nothing else make this a respectable 6 game series.

"Strange things happen," Pistons coach Flip Saunders said. "One play can change a game, one game can change a series. Basically, what we've got to do is come up with that play at home and try to change the series."

Really, one play is gonna do it, Flip? This smacks of desperation.
That sounded bush league the first time he said it, and it really sounds bush league at this point in the playoffs.

Get a damn win instead of worrying about one play. Solve the Heat's defense. Actually push and score in transition without jacking 3s. Stop playing zone, because Riley had it figured out in less than 2 minutes.

It's going to come down to will (ref: aurorakmw) and our horses against their horses (ref: mercury). Unfortunately, we're not able to take care of fundamental things like time and score (ref: KGREG) or taking timeouts, making adjustments (ref: The Low), so we're gunna start down -1 point for coaching off the bat.

Btw, I'm starting to question the return of Ben. Forget the free throws. He's got one block in 4 games. Tonight we had 2 blocks to the Heat's 5. There is simply no energy, lift or passion on defense besides Tay, Hunter, Rip and Davis.

Shoot, forgot to give BIG UPS to my man Mo Evans. He played well considering. It's a shame we didn't make use of his 3 point shooting earlier in the series.

Pistonloyalist, it is difficult to write this but BOTH we don't have sharp perimeter speed to stop Wade and Flip has made no noticeable adjustments. Wade is good but not that good. Our bigs are all relatively slow when it comes to stopping a Wade driving. Ben could but he is being used up on Shaq. Ben should play most of his early minutes when Shaq is out as he can move to guard Wade as Wade drives in. We could use Tay as a back up when he drives but we want him to score taking away energy. We don't have a young Hunter to stick Wade which is the main problem.

Where Flip comes in is that any team can take out ONE main option and we have taken out neither. Have to blame Flip some and maybe our guys are arrogant too. Whatever the case, what looked like a beautiful run to a ship is now a break down. Losing to the Heat is one thing but losing like this is a shame. They are not that much better but they are winning easily.

Btw, I'm starting to question the return of Ben. Forget the free throws. He's got one block in 4 games. Tonight we had 2 blocks to the Heat's 5. There is simply no energy, lift or passion on defense besides Tay, Hunter, Rip and Davis.

Yep. I thought Davis was a bright spot in this loss. Flip only played Davis because he had to, but he looked good and (IMO) has earned some more playing time in game 5.

Ok last one and then I'll try to sleep.
-When you're trying to "Figure" it out, you've allready lost. Yes we're seeing that there is indeed a foot speed problem on the frontline, we need some youth/speed.........yeah I know I may have opened Pandora's Box for BBALLJAY and DaveG-rap:frusty:

The thing that is killing us is the Cleveland series. Had we beat them convincingly in 5, and then played like this against the Heat, well we could just flat out concede that they were just better than us, it would almost be easier to stomach. But we have to face a fact here, had Wade not got hurt last year they may have beaten us, sad but true. But staying healthy is key for a 'ship. Hell if Rip and Sheeds ankles were OK maybe we're smoking these cats (although I doubt it with this new regimes x's and o's). Bottom line is that Cleveland EXPOSED us, it may be a blessing with 2 starter contracts coming up.

We also have to face the fact that Ben is not going to be a dominant shot blocker anymore, he wasn't that last year either. You can lose a 1/2 step overnight in your sleep, and a few inches off your vertical, ask Sheed. BTW anybody else notice Sheed hasn't caught a oop off the P&R in a few seasons now, when he first got here he was good for at least one per game, and a put back dunk.......anybody remember Sheed getting any sort of offensive putback under Flip????????? Kinda hard to do when the go#%$*mn play calls for you to be camped out on the 3pt line.:doh:

From what I see the main problem with penetration is the Wallace's are not there to bail out the team. Ben is busy with Shaq and Sheed seems to have lost mobility with his injury plus foul trouble is a constant problem.

Pistons usually get a lot of points off their defense and now we are a grind it out half court team. Need those forced TO's to open up the offense.

I am not giving up on Ben returning as a Piston but if we lose this series then someone on our frontline is not going to be back next season. We have been cheating with this 3 PF rotation and its finally starting to catch up. Always had problems with wiry 7'ers like Foster ( Indy ), Verajio ( Clev) - you know the guys. Now trying to play Shaq without even a reliable Center off the bench is making the job almost impossible. If Ben comes back then it will have to be with him going back to playing PF like he used to do. Ever since he made the switch his rebounding and blocks have been down.

Hopefully we can at least get game 5 and make the series respectable. Looking at the Piston bench even when we came back in the 3rd they just look done. I don't know what it is but they appear to have lost the will to win. I never thought I would ever have to write that.

The Pistons must find a way to turn their offensive efficiency around. If it means the boring half court offense of the past, fine. If it means more transition game, fine. But this in the middle stuff isn't working out.

Isolation Plays- One or two isolation plays in succession works out great for Chauncey or Tay, but the Pistons lack the superstar talent (nor do they get enough calls) for this type of offense to succeed play after play. Even when the Pistons do find success with this offense, Riley has been quick to make the needed adjustments (Posey on Tay, Williams off Billups).

Pick and Pop- When will Rasheed realize that they will stay with him on the perimeter until he proves he can move inside. He continues to stay at the perimeter after every pick, eliminating both his shot and any chance for Billups to take his man off the dribble. He needs to roll towards the hoop for an easy basket/dunk. If he works inside, he will get his threes later.

Weakside Rebounding- Detroit should abuse Miami on the offensive glass when Shaq is on the floor guarding Ben. It has become quite clear that Shaq has made a commitment to leave Wallace alone and assist his teammates. Whenever Shaq rotates to the strong side to contest a Piston drive or shot, Ben must move to the glass for the offensive rebound. After a couple of put-backs, Kazaam will be forced to pay attention to Ben giving the rest of the Pistons better looks.

Officiating- As always in the NBA, the aggresor will get the favorable calls (see Dwyade). Now, I'm not suggesting that Rip and Chauncey start driving with reckless abandon towards the hoop (once again see Dwyade), but the Pistons cannot allow a single player to almost take more foul shots than the entire Pistons team combined. Do not settle for contested jumpshots where fouls are rarely called. Be aggresive to the hoop and give your team two tries to get points on the board.

All that said, down 3-1 will prove to be an uphill battle, but must start with intensity at the Palace. Dwyade and Shaq lost a closeout game at home last year. Give them flashbacks by forcing a game 6.

what can a fan say? Thios ain't the Pistons that won the hearts about 2 years ago. As Mc Cosky wrote, they're complaining, avoiding to hustle and not playing D- as they were known for their D.
Wade has been penetrating the hell out of this team, just like LBJ. When I complained about Sheed's obsession to 3's, many of ya told me that this was to avoid injuries and he'd turn on his inside play comes playoff time.
So, where is it?
I don't want to see Ben anymore in the Pistons Uni- I hate to see young and even old bigs abuse him like he used to abuse others. Hate to see him not blocking. Not having his huge rebounding nights. Hate to see him decline since that makes me feel old. I want to keep him in my memore as the shotblocking and rebounding machine he once was and not as the outcoming of Bo Outlaw.
I think this series is over- we all knew it somehow since February. The team had a huge start and then, at the time around february, it regressed. Opponents started to adjust and the W's becamer closer and the team lost more often. Finally in the CLE series we all saw that this team was not as good as the regular season made us think. I'm sad.

At this point, it's obvious that everyone can and should be held accountable (some maybe more than others) for the sudden demise of our squad from our head coach to our starting six. All of them, each and every one of them are responsible for choking this series (almost) away.

But who knows where we would be if Rasheed had two healthy wheels.

If you recall, it was the same question we were asking a couple of years ago in the New Jersey series when Chauncey was hobbled with a bum ankle. It's the exact same situation. If Eric Snow, never would've pulled off one of his patented moves in the second round, maybe we wouldn't have gotten swept.

I think, that year, the Pistons knew they couldn't beat New Jersey with Chauncey hobbled as badly as he was. So they didn't have the heart to win the series, so they didn't give maximum effort, hence, we got swept.

I think that's what might be going on here, just on a slightly smaller scale. They know how hurt Rasheed is so maybe they don't think they can take Miami without a 100% Rasheed Wallace.

After sitting there watching our team, choke away yet another game like that. I think I was equally disgusted with the terribly biased Miami slanted broadcast that ABC shoved down our throats for three hours last night. :mad:

It seemed like every single time they went to a commercial the lead in involved Shaq and Dwayne Wade (the latter curiously dressed in a sweater vest) popping up on the screen saying;

"You're watching the Eastern Conference Finals on ABC."

I mean, it was like they did that going into every single commercial. Talk about over kill. :doh:

They did the half-time piece on Pat Riley too. The only thing I recall, that actually included the Pistons (the Ben Wallace interview piece just before the game started aside) was that little piece they did of Flip Saunders, during a timeout, when he thanked the troops, and that was it. It was like the 2004 finals all over again. Talk about déjà vu.

I bet they don't even read the millions of e-mails and countless letters the Pistons fans send when they complain about it, they probably just mass delete/shred, and never give it another thought.

After sitting there watching our team, choke away yet another game like that. I think I was equally disgusted with the terribly biased Miami slanted broadcast that ABC shoved down our throats for three hours last night. :mad:
I couldn't stand the sound of Hubie Brown and Mike Breen anymore.

George Blaha is good about shining up a loss. It's what kept me sane last night.

I couldn't stand the sound of Hubie Brown and Mike Breen anymore.

George Blaha is good about shining up a loss. It's what kept me sane last night.

Yeah, I hear you, man. There's nothing like the comforts of home to get you through the rough times.

That's why I always watch FSN or TV 20's feed (WXYP, out here in Grand Rapids) (when they're available) during the playoffs.

Yep. I thought Davis was a bright spot in this loss. Flip only played Davis because he had to, but he looked good and (IMO) has earned some more playing time in game 5.

I liked the fact that Davis left no margin for error with his fouls. Those were nice, hard, clean fouls. Why can't the rest of the team do the same? I'm sick of these pansy fouls that allow Wade to throw up a circus shot that drops and get the fans (and announcers) screaming for him to heal them!!!!

I do wish Davis would translate that defensive aggression to the offensive end. Take it up strong!!! There was one play in particular late, on a Hunter feed (I think) in the paint and he just stood there trying to head fake Shaq for about 5 seconds and then got blocked. If he would have gone up strong right away, he would have had an easy bucket (before Shaq was able to slide over) and possibly an and 1.

I've been VERY disappointed with the entire teams lack of strong finishes. How many point blank layups/dunks/tip ins have we missed in the playoffs??? GO UP STRONG AND TAKE NO PRISONERS!!!!! Maybe J-Max should show them how its done. Man, that thunder dunk against the Raps still gives me goose bumps!

I don't like the Heat but they're playing the way I like to see teams play. Contrast the inspired play vs. The thinly veiled rhetoric of a team that's lost its heart.

Yeah, I hear you, man. There's nothing like the comforts of home to get you through the rough times.

That's why I always watch FSN or TV 20's feed (WXYP, out here in Grand Rapids) (when they're available) during the playoffs.

Go ahead, rub it in to us out of town folks. That`s all we get is the Hubie Browns and Mark Jacksons.......... I would challenge Mark Jackson to a 10 mile race if I ever saw his punk a&&...

Go ahead, rub it in to us out of town folks. That`s all we get is the Hubie Browns and Mark Jacksons.......... I would challenge Mark Jackson to a 10 mile race if I ever saw his punk a&&...

Sorry Dlev. :)

I can't imagine how tough it must be for you folks. :ohwell:

Why don't mute your TV and go here (http://www.thegamelive.com) scroll through the feeds until you find one and listen to George Blaha. That'll bring you right back home. It's a great web site. :nod:

Word 2 da mutha, Hp...I tried listening to Blaha last night but it was 10 seconds slower. Rats!......I miss home and "all my freeks out dere"(Rick steiner)..Heres the rumor mill I heard- Sign and trade with Denver, Ben for Martin and Boykins. Heard it on WXYT....Id perfer a penetrating point but they are hard to find.

Word 2 da mutha, Hp...I tried listening to Blaha last night but it was 10 seconds slower. Rats!......I miss home and "all my freeks out dere"(Rick steiner)..Heres the rumor mill I heard- Sign and trade with Denver, Ben for Martin and Boykins. Heard it on WXYT....Id perfer a penetrating point but they are hard to find.
WXYT is lousy for Pistons coverage. They just throw crap at the wall to see what sticks.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9849/flipistonhistory3pm.jpg

Is that how many years Flip will remain with this team? Great job by the way.

Actually, I'm going to give Mo a little credit. he Stopped a alley oop power jam by shack and had the big big reeling. O'neal gave him that WTF look. I didn't think this team could foul a guy like that. i mean it wasn't finesse like we do.

Just a quick question. I have only seen 1 game so far in this years playoffs - game 3 this series. In the bucks series and the start of the cavs series we were killing those teams and scoring in excess of 100ppg. Our defence wasnt so bad as well. So how come we arent able to score 90ppg? Is it injuries, better defence, confidence... We were shooting the 3 ball pretty well if i remember correctly. Our defence seems alright on paper but when you lose all the close games and get outscored in the last quarter then it means we are outplayed. Why has there been such a big change in the pistons? Sigh, the answers are there but can we change in time to stay in the playoffs...

Miami has a good defensive system if not the players to play good defense. From what I've seen, they do a little bait and rotate.