FINALS!

So what'll it be? Are you putting on a cowboy hat and saddling up for the Mavs, or slipping into a thong to moon over Miami? Either way, there's a lot riding on it! (Okay, I'll stop now.)

Use this thread for your Dallas-Miami predictions, comments and questions.

Game 1: HEAT @ MAVERICKS THU 9:00 PM
Game 2: HEAT @ MAVERICKS SUN 9:00 PM
Game 3: MAVERICKS @ HEAT TUE 9:00 PM
Game 4: MAVERICKS @ HEAT THU 9:00 PM
Game 5: MAVERICKS @ HEAT SUN 9:00 PM
Game 6: HEAT @ MAVERICKS TUE 9:00 PM
Game 7: HEAT @ MAVERICKS THU 9:00 PM

SERIES LINKS:
ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/series?series=miadal)
Dallas News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/vitindex.html)
Miami Herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/basketball/)

I'll start by saying that I think this is the Mavs' year. Aside from a petty desire to see Miami ground up into polenta, Dallas has so many good role players who do more than the "just be decent" supporting cast of the Heat.

The Mavs can put Dampier and Diop on Shaq, plus Howard on Wade. But who do the Heat put on Nowitzki?

I had the Mav`s coming out of the West last year and this year. They finally made it and I think they will beat Miami in 5-6 games.

What I really like anout the Mav`s is they can go 10 deep if neccessary. Forget that crap about a 7, possibly 8 man rotation in the playoffs, if you can go 9 or 10 deep like Dallas and everyone contribute , it puts you at a serious advantage to win EVERY game.

Our Pistons better develop a bench next year or we will be on the outside looking in again next year at this time.

Dallas has homecourt, and they get the calls there.

This should be a short series.

Both teams seem to have peaked and are playing their best basketball of the year. Some factors that may be relevant to the outcome:

1) Is Miami going to have an emotional letdown after expending all that energy in this last series to avenge last year's bitter loss to Detroit?;

2) Shaq seemed to play younger and better (except for free throw shooting) in the Detroit series than he had in either the 2004 Finals or the 2005 Eastern Conference Finals. The second half fatigue factor that we have come to expect from Shaq seemed almost non-existent in the last series. Can he continue that strong play? Will Dallas make him work harder for his points, and hence make him tire in the second half?

3) Does Riley's experience and skill give him a coaching advantage over Johnson that could become a factor in the outcome?

4) Does Dallas have the players or defensive schemes to stop Wade's penetration in a way the Pistons could not?

5) Has Dallas really acquired what it never had before -- a commitment to defense? And will Miami continue to shoot a high percentage? If Miami continues to shoot the lights out, I think they have an excellent shot of winning.

Oh what a pukey series. Would I prefer a Texas champ or a Florida champ that includes Shaq and Riles. It's too distasteful to dwell on.
But I think the Heat is the better team. But how do know since the Pistons didn't challenge them?

The Heat's only chance in this series is to slow the pace way down and make it a physical game. (We know Riley isn't against that if his team is at a skill disadvantage.) If the refs call it tight but even, the Mavs get a huge edge because they're better free throw shooters.

Six games, Dallas.

I'll be rooting for Dallas because I don't like the Heat. But I'm guessing...

Miami in 6. :mad:

It's not everyday that we get to see a first-time champion. By my reckoning, the last time two teams that had never won a NBA championship faced eachother in the Finals was back in '78, when the Bullets beat the Sonics.

It's even more rare to have two teams that have never even played in the Finals, much less won it all. Again by my reckoning, the last time that happened was in '71, when the Bucks and the Bullets were both Finals newbies (the Bucks won).

Enough with the history lesson. :) At the beginning of the season I called the Pistons winning it all over the Mavs or the Rockets. At the beginning of the playoffs I called the Pistons over the Mavs. I'm going to stick with the Mavs, in 6 games. The Spurs stretched them to 7, but I can't see the Heat being able to do the same.

Mavs in 6 is my prediction.

It's not everyday that we get to see a first-time champion. By my reckoning, the last time two teams that had never won a NBA championship faced eachother in the Finals was back in '78, when the Bullets beat the Sonics.

....

Enough with the history lesson. :)


Sorry, but we'll have to keep you after class. The Sonics took the title in 1978, not the other way around.

Sorry, but we'll have to keep you after class.
:laugh:

The Bullets did win in '78 though. The Sonics -- coached by Lenny, led by DJ -- won the rematch in '79.

Some references:

NBA History site (http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19781979.html)

Basketball Reference site (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SEA/)

Let me sort through these things for a minute.

(PAUSE. SOUND OF DRAWER BEING RUMMAGED THROUGH.)

There it is!

:redface:

Sorry, man. You're right and I've got the egg on my face. Start of season 1978, end of season 1979. Check.

Carry on ... :tape:

:laugh:

The Sonics -- coached by Lenny, led by DJ -- won the rematch in '79.

Some references:

NBA History site (http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19781979.html)

Basketball Reference site (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SEA/)

That 1979 Sonics team coached by Lenny Wilkens is my all time favorite non-Pistons basketball team. That team pretty much got me hooked on basketball.

On ESPN.com, there are only 4 states that are predicting a Mavs win: Texas, Oklahoma, Illinois, and Michigan.

How can that be? I really don't have anything against the Heat, but it just seems like Dallas is the perfect mismatch against them. How can the Heat possibly keep up with the Mavs? Who will guard Dirk?

I'm not sure the Heat can win a single game. They got killed during the regular season.

Mavs in 4. I hope I'm wrong and it is a good series, but I doubt it.

On ESPN.com, there are only 4 states that are predicting a Mavs win: Texas, Oklahoma, Illinois, and Michigan.

How can that be?

People have a tendency to go with what they know. Everybody knows Shaq; everybody knows Riley.

Dallas are a bit of an unknown quantity in comparison.

I'd assume that the Mavs will give Shaq more resistance...
Can't see how the Heat can hold down Terry and Howard getting anywhere they want (Zo may deter this some).
Absolutely nobody to slow down Dirk... unless Zo sharpens his elbows.

Hate the Heat but I want them to win... I like a fat cat Shaq better for next season.

Mavs in six

On ESPN.com, there are only 4 states that are predicting a Mavs win: Texas, Oklahoma, Illinois, and Michigan.

How can that be? I really don't have anything against the Heat, but it just seems like Dallas is the perfect mismatch against them. How can the Heat possibly keep up with the Mavs? Who will guard Dirk?

I'm not sure the Heat can win a single game. They got killed during the regular season.

Mavs in 4. I hope I'm wrong and it is a good series, but I doubt it.

A single game? Sure the Heat have few who can gaurd Dirk, but the Mavs have few who can body with Shaq.

Diop is looking pretty physical. Dampier is backing him up. I don't think that Shaq can do any better than what he did against the DPOY. 65% from the field.

Jason Terry should go nuts against both J Will and G Payton.

Josh Howard and Stack should be able to cover Wade and make him play both ends.

Dirk is unstoppable, no Heat PF can stop him.

Only advantage Heat has over the Mavs is Shaq.

If Avery Johnson can have the Mavs run the ball up and down the court, Shaq will be done by Game 3.

Send G Payton and Mourning into retirement without a RING!!!

GO MAVS!

On ESPN.com, there are only 4 states that are predicting a Mavs win: Texas, Oklahoma, Illinois, and Michigan.

How can that be? I really don't have anything against the Heat, but it just seems like Dallas is the perfect mismatch against them. How can the Heat possibly keep up with the Mavs? Who will guard Dirk?

I'm not sure the Heat can win a single game. They got killed during the regular season.

Mavs in 4. I hope I'm wrong and it is a good series, but I doubt it.

You're right. The National media really favors the Heat to win. I guess I'm surprised that so many people here believe the Mavs will win. The Heat are playing really well right now. What happened during the regular season is pretty much ancient history.

I hope you guys are right and the Mavs prevail.

I am going to watch this series selfishly with the Pistons in mind. How will Dallas guard Shaq and what will that tell us about what to do with him in the future? Same with Wade. What will Dallas speed do to Miami? Answers will tell us what we were missing or at least give us a direction. I won't underestimate Miami. Even at our peak, I had given them at least a shot at us. I hope Dallas wins out of solidarity to my Laker friends who don't want to see Shaq laughing at them with a trophy.

Something is telling me the Heat will lose some of their magic from the Piston series and the shots will stop falling for them. Shaq's bound to slow down and have trouble keeping up. Dallas is the kind of team that will force the tempo and make their shots which will give Miami trouble setting up their defense. In other words I do not see this settling down into a half court game which will benefit Dallas. Miami got a little too comfortable with Detroits poor shooting.

Botton line - Norwitzki has to make his shots. Miami has no answer for him.

Dallas in 5. At least I hope its short so the Networks can appreciate a good old fashioned Piston 7 game series.

Dallas will look at what succes teams have had guarding Shaq. The best way they guard Shaq was to run him and Mourning off of the floor. I don't see the Mav's running out of gas like the Pistons did. Avery seems like one smart and determined cookie. I expect the MAv's to win. Yes I did call the MAv's to come out of the wwest, this year and last year. I see that one sports sites that the majority takes Miami.

Dallas Keen on New Hack a Shaq Strat (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/49358)

Stack choking as usual. I can sleep now. All is right with the world....

Seriously, if Dirk had any help, they would be up 20 on Miami.

So this is the new NBA? Dallas wins 90-80. Someone forgot to give Riley and Johnson the memo.

Have you ever seen a Finals game close out with so many bad passes, dumb turns and missed shots? Wades shots were not even close. But he does have the sinus infection, lets see what ailment he comes up with for Sunday.

Not to vent but why was that more enjoyable than our series last season? Only difference is they did not have all the sports experts telling people not to watch because it was going to be boring. if ours was a series for the "purist" - i.e. not for the average fan then what is this so far?

Nothing against Miami or Dallas as they cannot control what the analysts say. There has been a lot of mud slinging for the way the Pistons approached the past 2 Finals ( even from our own DetNews's McCosky ) and I am watching this and trying to figure out why its supposed to be so much better.

MAVS WIN!!!

Shaq will give excuses that they did not go to him more. Wade and Walker took too many shots.

All I can say, keep it up MAVS!!!

SEND ZO & PAYTON INTO RETIREMENT WITHOUT A RING!!!

Hey roscoe, no chat during the NBA Finals?

MAVS WIN!!!



SEND ZO & PAYTON INTO RETIREMENT WITHOUT A RING!!!

Zo and Payton no points....Heat bench...2 points...Walker and Wade 11 TO's ..Shaq 1-9 FT shooting

Heat had a nice 1st qtr and kept it close... but won't win this series though without bench and poor Ft shooting. Dirk and Howard had a bad shooting night but JT was hot enough to get them back in it in the second and then helped extend the lead in the 4th. State of texas 5-0 in their last 5 NBA Finals...Go MAVS

MAVS WIN!!!

Shaq will give excuses that they did not go to him more. Wade and Walker took too many shots.

All I can say, keep it up MAVS!!!

SEND ZO & PAYTON INTO RETIREMENT WITHOUT A RING!!!

I concur. For any other better reason than to root for Stack.

Hey roscoe, no chat during the NBA Finals?

I even went to check the chat line because there was some banter on the DetNews forum.

Dallas did what I expected the Pistons to do: run them and use speed and atleticism. What a difference fresh legs make! Notice that Dallas shot nothing but jumpers in the 4th quarter and STILL pulled away from a tired Heat. One other difference, Dallas would pull up and shoot the short jumper and not dribble all the way in like Rip and Chauncey to get nothing.

They weren't afraid to foul Shaq. They got hands on a lot of those interior passes. They substituted early and often. Miami's early thrust was met. It was Miami expending energy to stay in the game in the 3rd. It is only one game but Miami is in trouble.

We can see what the Pistons need from this series--we can see what was wrong.

MAVS WIN!!!

Shaq will give excuses that they did not go to him more. Wade and Walker took too many shots.

All I can say, keep it up MAVS!!!

SEND ZO & PAYTON INTO RETIREMENT WITHOUT A RING!!!
:thumb:

Nice win. Maybe you guys were right and Dallas can beat them.

Great chance for Miami to steal a win in Dallas last night, with Dirk and Howard bricking everything, but Terry was white hot, and the Heat couldn't capitalize when the Mavs started choking badly in the middle of the 4th and went several minutes without scoring. If Dallas can settle in to their offense from the beginning of Game 2, they should be in solid control of this series.

On ESPN.com, there are only 4 states that are predicting a Mavs win: Texas, Oklahoma, Illinois, and Michigan.

How can that be? I really don't have anything against the Heat, but it just seems like Dallas is the perfect mismatch against them. How can the Heat possibly keep up with the Mavs? Who will guard Dirk?

I'm not sure the Heat can win a single game. They got killed during the regular season.

Mavs in 4. I hope I'm wrong and it is a good series, but I doubt it.

Michigan fans know the game, and realize that Miami wasn't that impressive against Detroit.

Dallas, and their long bench hitting Miami in waves, is going to sweep this series. Hope Flip is watching Avery and taking notes about adjustments and player substitutions.

I will be floored if the Mavs sweep. I really don't think they are -- or could ever be -- that dominant.

No sweep. Miami will win games, because all it takes is two or three Heat players having decent games to help out Wade and Shaq.

Chat is open.

Chat is open you guys. Didn't you see Roscoe's note at top of page?
Cmon, doesn't anyone want to chat? We don't have to do a play by play of the horrid Heat and the Mavs. We can talk about our beloved Pistons as usual!

Been mega-busy the last few days, but I'm down for some finals chat come Game 3. Good to see that the Mavs are crushing tonight, I didn't get a chance to watch until well into the 4th quarter.

My friend at work gave me a "sympathy" phone call every time Miami hammered Detroit in the playoffs. I made sure I returned the favor tonight since he is pulling for Miami. One good turn deserves another. :heh:

Great job Dallas!

Miami has been exposed. Dallas is too quick for them as the west style of ball is winning out in the NBA. The Pistons are the only team that can compete with the West. Miami may win some games but hard to see them win this series. But here we go again: What happened to the Pistons? Joe needs to be watching this series.

It helps that Dallas has some thoughtful coaching. They are rotating in their centers early. They are running. They have some speed to go with Wade and are quick enough to harass him around the rim. They are doubling Shaq. They are fouling Shaq. They are tipping balls away from him. They are too quick for Walker and have him out of sinc. They are trying to stay with Williams and have kept him at bay.

On offense, Dallas has several players that can cause problems off of the dribble. They pass the ball, force a bit of dribble penetration to set up a jump shot for the most part. Dirk works his way into his spots himself at times for jumpers and he drives now and again. Dallas has been poor on the breaks but just doing them, keeps Miami out of the cozy rhythm they had against the Pistons.

Dallas is not letting Shaq dominate the boards. They have several guys hitting the boards. They are aware of the lob plays and have mainly stopped them to Shaq.

Definitely if we had a bench with speed and could score like the Mavs tonight's game would have been at the palace. Avery played 10 guys with the bench players playing major minutes and scoring to the tune of 41 points in game 2.

Our starters are still the best, but our team is not because there is a huge droppoff after the six man, accoriding to Flip that is so they only got minor minutes. If Joe is going to keep Fkp, then he needs find players that are not only productive, but ones that Flip will play,:nod:

Definitely if we had a bench with speed and could score like the Mavs tonight's game would have been at the palace. Avery played 10 guys with the bench players playing major minutes and scoring to the tune of 41 points in game 2.

Our starters are still the best, but our team is not because there is a huge droppoff after the six man, accoriding to Flip that is so they only got minor minutes. If Joe is going to keep Fkp, then he needs find players that are not only productive, but ones that Flip will play,:nod:
Avery

Flip


nuff said. :frusty:

To me, the Mavs are the Pistons of a couple of years ago. We'll be back.

I can't blame Flip when I see how much quicker Jason Terry initiates the offense than Chauncey. Imagine a point guard who actually RUNS upcourt instead of waddling like Fred Sanford.

I can't blame Flip when I see how much quicker Jason Terry initiates the offense than Chauncey. Imagine a point guard who actually RUNS upcourt instead of waddling like Fred Sanford.

Mr. Big Shot...Big Dummy!!!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I can't blame Flip when I see how much quicker Jason Terry initiates the offense than Chauncey. Imagine a point guard who actually RUNS upcourt instead of waddling like Fred Sanford.

just watched game 5 of the nba finals from 2004 when we won it all. every time we got a rebound we ran down the floor as fast as we could, which ran the lakers (and shaq) ragged, causing them to miss a ton of open shots. it's not like we fired up quick shots either. plus ben was a complete monster on the boards and half the time he got down the court so fast after a rebound he went faster than the screen could pan. plus he showed he could play offense.

...sigh. if we played as hard and hungry in the miami series we woulda had the same result. it's amazing what watching that game does though, i was giddy and hyper after for a couple hours like we had just won again lol

Mavs are just too deep, playing too well to lose from what I have seen. This should be over in 5 maybe 6.

A popular misconception is that LB didn't want to run. That's not true. He specifically came in with the run mentality which was the opposite of Carlisle. The difference was, you run and then you execute the offense. You don't just run willy-nilly and forget to play defense or surrender long rebounds.

It seems Avery understands what should be common knowledge. Push with discipline. When you get a team pushing and finishing "the right way", you'll win more times than not.

Mavs are just too deep, playing too well to lose from what I have seen. This should be over in 5 maybe 6.

A popular misconception is that LB didn't want to run. That's not true. He specifically came in with the run mentality which was the opposite of Carlisle. The difference was, you run and then you execute the offense. You don't just run willy-nilly and forget to play defense or surrender long rebounds.

It seems Avery understands what should be common knowledge. Push with discipline. When you get a team pushing and finishing "the right way", you'll win more times than not.

Always thought that Avery is a better coach than Flip. No way Mavs will lose the series, just no way. Heat will be lucky to win a game, which I predict they will. 4-1 MAVS, NBA CHAMPIONS 2006!!!

This is kinda off-topic, and it's not meant to be judgmental or anything, but I saw this posted on a blog and I wonder if anyone saw what the guy's describing:

If you know anyone who has Tivo, that there is two male Mavericks fans kissing to celebrate their teams Game 1 victory in the NBA Finals. You can find it at the 34.6 mark in the 4th quarter. The camera pans to what I believe is Pat Riley, and in the background two guys are kissing.

Just struck me as kind of funny. Seems like there's always one unintended image that attaches itself to the Finals, like that big-boobed woman sitting behind Phil Jackson during Game 1 in 2004. I couldn't help laughing whenever the cameraman did a closeup on Phil and this huge cleavage jiggling in the background. And they showed it *a lot.*

It might have been a good thing that we lost in the semis. Given the way Dallas is giving it to Miami and how poorly we had been playing of late. We might have saved ourselves a very humiliating finals. Kind of like what we did to LA a few years ago.

If the Pistons won they would of all flipped back to the same page and they wouldn't be embarrased I think. Is this supposed to be the exciting series everyone was talking about? Hasn't been fun at all.

I don't know man, the Mavs handed it to us pretty good early in the season. Our first loss of the year if I remember correctly. And that was when we WERE playing well.

Any time the Heat are down 0-2, its an exciting series for me. I can't stand those guys!

oh don't pull out that game. We were dead that game and we couldn't do anything. I think the series would be very close like the second game was between the 2 teams if the Pistons had things running smoothly. Things were pretty rough though.

could anyone explain to me why the Mavs (a team that is not known for its good D) is able to handle the Wade/Shap combo? Why our Pistons where not able to either handle them, not to execute against them on the offensive end? Looks like the Mavs are way better then the Pistons what gives me another reason not to be optimistic about our closer future.

I wonder if the two kissing guys are Phil Jackson and Tex Winters...

Well, I wont go into Pistons/Spurs rematch:deadhorse I'm still crying. I hate Dallas, but will support Mavs in these Finals because I hate Heat more. Besides Avery isnt really from Dallas, he lives in Woodlands Houston and is Spurs own.

I loved watching sportscasters today talking about Shaq pouting, made only 5 points, couldnt get any touches, didnt play at all in the 4th Q, and wouldnt talk to his teammates after game. He wouldnt talk to media either, so he got fined $10,000 and Franchise got fined $25,000. Media commented that as painful as it was for Rasheed Wallace to talk to media after loss, he did it with class. I love it that the Heat is going to implode. I look for a sweep from Mavs, they are too good.

I just saw Terrance Owens the latest Cowboy mistake wearing a Heat Jersey in Dallas...anything to get attention:P

If the Pistons won they would of all flipped back to the same page and they wouldn't be embarrased I think. Is this supposed to be the exciting series everyone was talking about? Hasn't been fun at all.

The TV ratings are only slightly up from last years games 1 and 2. This is from a severe drop from 04 to 05 so our Lakers/Piston series is the most popular out of the 3. Nets/Spurs in 03 continues as the most un-popular series in modern times.

If this series continues at this rate with scores under 100 and the Heat struggling to score over 90 ending in 4 or 5 games then I would love it. Pistons took a lot of pot-shots after losing to Miami for being too boring, not conforming to what the NBA wants and responsible for the deteriorating fan base.

could anyone explain to me why the Mavs (a team that is not known for its good D) is able to handle the Wade/Shap combo? Why our Pistons where not able to either handle them, not to execute against them on the offensive end? Looks like the Mavs are way better then the Pistons what gives me another reason not to be optimistic about our closer future.

- thats exactly what I have been wondering.

First of all, AJ is throwing different looks constantly at Shaq. We threw one consistent look.

What can't be overlooked is the rebounding.

The Pistons rebounded sub par all year, and that caught up with them in the playoffs. The Mavs are very, very good on the boards.

They were 5th during the season in REB per game.

They are 1st in the playoffs.

First of all, AJ is throwing different looks constantly at Shaq. We threw one consistent look.

What can't be overlooked is the rebounding.

The Pistons rebounded sub par all year, and that caught up with them in the playoffs. The Mavs are very, very good on the boards.

They were 5th during the season in REB per game.

They are 1st in the playoffs.
Get me at least 1 7 footer on this team. We had two in Dale and Sheed, but Sheed can't play that great of D on Shaq plus he was really injured. Than Dale was never used. The Mavs have 2 7 footers (Damp and Diop) rolling, doubling, and fronting Shaq the whole 48 minutes. Next year get a big 7 footer to gaurd Shaq and have Ben come in and sometimes front and try stealing entry passes. Force the others to shoot. Ben is just too small sometimes and even though he can try harder than Shaq it won't work out.

Perimeter speed on defense. You can't double-team Shaq if guys like Payton and Williams are getting layups and uncontested shots off kickouts.

could anyone explain to me why the Mavs (a team that is not known for its good D) is able to handle the Wade/Shap combo? Why our Pistons where not able to either handle them, not to execute against them on the offensive end? Looks like the Mavs are way better then the Pistons what gives me another reason not to be optimistic about our closer future.

Yes, yes, some of you knowledgeable Pistons fans please answer TWOTIMESRALPHI question. I was thinking the same thing watching them last night. How are they able to contain the Wade/Shaq scoring machine where we couldn't?

This is my guess. Avery's adjustment and substitutions, being able to go 10 deep on the bench, and a those two real big guys, Diop and Dampier.

But please I hope someone else will answer this. Watching the Mavs play the Heat so well is a little demoralizing remembering how we played the Heat. :mad:

Yes, yes, some of you knowledgeable Pistons fans please answer TWOTIMESRALPHI question. I was thinking the same thing watching them last night. How are they able to contain the Wade/Shaq scoring machine where we couldn't?



Oh while I was formulating my post a few of you came along and gave some answers. Thanks!!:)

Dallas defense has been better than ours. They are younger and rested for one. They have the two bigs that can bother Shaq. They give Shaq different looks. They have speed and make the entry pass harder to Shaq and they tipped away some passes. They bother the lob to Shaq. They have sound coaching.

On Wade, they have some speed to stay with him. When he gets in the lane they are quick and have quick hops to bother him.

They are too quick for Walker as Walker winds up forcing up a lot of shots. They are better staying with Williams.

Dallas has been really leaping in a tandem for rebounds--not just the center.

The Pistons can play this style with a fresher team, coaching and not in the over-confident yet tight role that they were in. We absolutely can compete with Dallas. We do need a perimeter guy, a deeper team and at least a strategy for Shaq. Dallas is doing what I expected the Pistons to do. Miami will probably come out and get a game. But they are in big trouble.

Perimeter speed on defense. You can't double-team Shaq if guys like Payton and Williams are getting layups and uncontested shots off kickouts.

Bingo!!

The Mav`s can get away with doubling Shaq because of their quick defensive rotations, and disguising where the double is coming from.

Every time Shaq touched the ball he knew he was going to be doubled but he didn`t know where the double was coming from. Was it a guard, a forward? From the weak side?

Thus, when he tried to pass out of it, he was unsure and tentative resulting in several turnovers.

When he did successfully pass out of the double, the Heat players looked dazed and confused as they clanged shot after shot.

I was reading an interesting piece in the Miami Herald that said the Heat was built to get by the Pistons and perhaps play the methodical Spurs in the Finals. Meeting a deep, quick Mav`s team caught them totally off guard and unprepared.

Time to panic, continued the article. I love it!!!!!!!!!

Chat is open (Game 3).

Chat will be open every night of the Finals.

Game 3 Miami wins by 2. 100 points is yet to be broken.

I just figured out why the NBA is losing ratings - the announcers are sub-par. Hubie Brown is usually better but that Mike Breen guy is such a Heat fan. Perhaps its me. Maybe there is something about the Heat that you have to love that I am just missing. Root for Wade against another boring team from the West.

I was hoping for a sweep. Dallas needs game 4 so this does not become a series.

Dallas let this one slip away. They were in complete control, up by 13 half way through the 4th, but then went ice cold and let Wade get red hot.

Shaq was a non-factor in crunch time yet again. You don't have to watch the Heat long (even on mute, so you don't have to hear the "Be my daddy Wade" announcers) to see who's team this is. They don't even look to Shaq in the 4th anymore. Its all Wade, all the time.

Game 3 Miami wins by 2. 100 points is yet to be broken.

I just figured out why the NBA is losing ratings - the announcers are sub-par. Hubie Brown is usually better but that Mike Breen guy is such a Heat fan. Perhaps its me. Maybe there is something about the Heat that you have to love that I am just missing. Root for Wade against another boring team from the West.

I was hoping for a sweep. Dallas needs game 4 so this does not become a series.

Mike Breen and the rest of the ABC/ESPN (Saunders/Legler) crew are Shaq/Wade lovers so of course they are loving the fact that they can see these two for possibly 2-3 more games instead of one.

The Mavs in some respect are just like the Pistons, go into scoring droughts, make silly jumpers and never can sweep anyone, (except Memphis) But they do know how to adjust and come back based on their performances this year vs the Spurs and Suns, so I am hoping that all this talk about the Heat being back in it is put to rest if the Mavs go up 3-1 after Thursday. I mean if Dirk makes his one FT or Shaq misses his two like he had been doing this could be 3-0 and all the 41 points by Wade and the accolades attributed to he and Shaq would be for naught. If Wade entered the 4th qtr with 5 fouls, I would have been taking the ball at him to draw # 6 before he had a chance for his 4th qtr heroics. He may have had 4 entering the 4th, but I know he had 5 with a little more than 5 mins left.

I just figured out why the NBA is losing ratings - the announcers are sub-par. Hubie Brown is usually better but that Mike Breen guy is such a Heat fan. .


Remember that Shaq said in an interview after the Pistons series that he got a phone call from a close friend the night before the game, and his friend told him that he could do it and encouraged him.

They asked him who that friend was... and he said Hubie Brown.

Remember that Shaq said in an interview after the Pistons series that he got a phone call from a close friend the night before the game, and his friend told him that he could do it and encouraged him.

They asked him who that friend was... and he said Hubie Brown.

I never thought I would ever say this - bring back Bill Walton.Actually with so much at stake how can TNT and even ESPN field better announcers?

LADre - I do not know too much about Dallas but it does seem like they can really fall off at certain times of the game.

Drama Queen Wade went into the 4th limping.
So far....
1)Food poising, 2) Sinus infection, 3) Minor collision injury.

Hearing Pippen after the game on sportscenter saying how much Wade reminds him of Jordan is disgusting.:puke:

Hearing Pippen after the game on sportscenter saying how much Wade reminds him of Jordan is disgusting.:puke:
Oh My God, I'm sure Pippen went on and on and on about how much LeBron reminds him of Jordan all season. I said it before, Scottie Pippen is building a career out of being Jordan's teammate, going around saying how much better these guys are than Jordan.

He better watch out. Charles Oakley is going to come and get him talking like that all the time. Scottie Pippen must be jealous of MJ or something.
Wait until he starts saying that Dirk reminds him of Jordan.:laugh:

Both aren't even close to Jordan. If Michael was in this league now at his prime:faint2::scared:. MJ played when even the best didn't get too many calls. Nowadays if you look at a star player you'll be hit with a foul.

Weird game...the Mavs were crap in the first half, destroyed the Heat for much of the second half, and then choked like dogs in the last few minutes. Miami started off great, but then they could barely even get the ball across midcourt for much of the second half. And then it comes down to Shaq making FTs while Dirk misses one!


I don't think Miami's going win too many games with 20 turnovers, but their big advantage on the boards largely neutralized that. Still, if Dallas gets their act together a little bit for the next game, I think they'll probably win it.

No excuse for Dallas losing this one. They let Wade go 10 minutes with five fouls on him. It never should have come down to Dirk having to make two free throws. The Mavs should have won going away. Now they have given the Heat hope.

Don't be fooled. The Heat played their eyeballs out and barely won. They looked spent. They can play a big quarter but can't keep up with the Mavs for a whole game.

Shaq spent what he had against the Pistons and Walker has been re-exposed. Mavs need to get back to harassing Wade.

I would be surprised to see the Heat come back Thursday with the same effort.

The league wants the Heat but hey, everyone can see they don't have what it takes. Unless a miracle happens, this may be the end of the Shaq era.

Mavs are still setup to win. They just need to steal one in Miami to have two chances to closeout on their homecourt.

If anything, they took Miami's best punch in the first half, and roared back. They were one play from winning the game. I wish I could say the Pistons played the Heat that close.

Mavs are still setup to win. They just need to steal one in Miami to have two chances to closeout on their homecourt.

If anything, they took Miami's best punch in the first half, and roared back. They were one play from winning the game. I wish I could say the Pistons played the Heat that close.

Mavs don't need to steal one. If the game 4 & 5 is played fairly (without Stern's call), Mavs will win the next 2 games at Miami. Knowing Avery Johnson, he will never keep quiet about Mavs' plays the last 5 minutes. He would condemn his players thru the media after the collapse in the 4th quarter. He would have made better adjustments in the 4th. But we all know better, Stern has made the decision to finish the series after 6 games. So, Mavs to win the series 4-2.

Looks like Wade is "hurting" yet again.

I'm guessing game 4 will have a Jordan vs. Wade stat comparrison when playing with an injured leg. :frusty:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2484003

Looks like Wade is "hurting" yet again.

I'm guessing game 4 will have a Jordan vs. Wade stat comparrison when playing with an injured leg. :frusty:



That's Wade. Always with the grimacing face especially when his team is losing a game or a series. After this series, the Heat would claim that they could have won it all if Wade was not injured.

This whole Wade being hurt and sick drama seems like some kind of marketing campaign tied into that commercial where he keeps falling down all the time. That's why it's so important that Miami doesn't win. There would probably be a made for TV movie and an autobiography out about 2 weeks after a Heat championship. Fall Down Seven, Get up Eight: The Dwyane Wade Story.

The Mavs must win.

That's Wade. Always with the grimacing face especially when his team is losing a game or a series. After this series, the Heat would claim that they could have won it all if Wade was not injured.

yah he's caught the 'wince carter' syndrome. i wonder if there's a catchy pun to play on wade's name.

http://www.pistonsdownloads.com/images/awcry.jpg


Need4sheed.com has some great pics for Heat haters.

I wanted Dallas to win when they started this series. But now I really really really want Miami to lose. Because of the Wade hype. When I see on ESPN that LeBron is textmessaging and supporting Wade and Miami, I really feel ill. That is too much to have piggyback hyping of each other.

GO MAVS!! Postpone the ascendance of LeTravel James and Dwyane Wince as long as possible.

LeBron says re Wade's knee "Well, that's just how me and Dwyane are. We go out and fight hard for our team even when we're hurt.We're warriors." Please! Has LeBron been hurt this season, or any season? Piggybacking on the other guys hype. Shameless.

GO MAVS! A team of one hardworking coachable superstar and nine hungry team players!!!

Game 4 Chat is OPEN!

I can't watch this. I turned off the tv. :mad:

I can`t watch either. Zo tries to block everything, I would love to see Jmax go to the hole with all his might and Zo go up to block his shot.....

Somebody is going to get hurt, somehow, I dont think it would be JMax...

Damnit. Looks like I may be right after all. :mad:

I only hope that game 3 doesn't come back to haunt the Mavs. Up by 13 with 6 minutes left and you blow it:doh:

Now in game four you have an opportunity to reverse that and you go down swinging.....The Heat had 8 turnovers in the 4th and gave the Mavs every opportunity make up the 10 point deficit, but instead they only score 7 points in the quarter.

They looked like the Pistons out there shooting jumpers with reckless abandon...Zo was on the bench for most of the 4th qtr and they still shot 3 pointers as if they were down by 20 instead of just 10. 3-22 from the beyond the arc???? Coincidently, Dirk and Josh Howard were a combined 3 for 22 shooting?? A little more attacking the rim instead of the jumpshots could have got hem back in this game and a possible win.

Game 3 should already be haunting the Mavs. A betting man might say that was their last chance to win the series.

I haven't been interested in watching much of this series, but my inner basketball fan overruled my inner homer last night and I watched. Man, deja vu all over again. The Mavs had practically no unguarded shots, and what they had they missed. Everything Wade threw up went in. Shaq and Zo refused to allow any penetration at all. I started getting cold sweats about the third.

So, how long does this go on before we either excoriate Avery for being a fraud and a simpleton or we allow that Riles has the band of misfit toys playing like the best defensive team of all time? And as long as they are doing that, they are not going to lose.

Has Dallas never heard of a screen? I hadn't realized until last night how different their offensive scheme is. And how about that Stackhouse kid? Who knew he had that in him? Go Stack!

Last ramble, as much I detest the man, Zo would send JMax into the third row.

I think the only thing Game 4 proves for the Mavs is that...they should have won Game 3. In a series against another elite team, the odds are very good that you're going to get beaten pretty decisively at least once on the other team's home floor. Miami's already had one in Dallas, Game 2, but things changed when they came back home. The best you can do on the road is give yourself a chance to win, and Dallas certainly did that in Game 3, but choked it away.

Still, the lack of heart they showed last night has got to be a bit of a concern. SEVEN points in the 4th quarter?!?! The only play of the night where anyone on the Mavs showed any onions at all was when Stack thugged it up against Shaq in the second half; roscoe was going nuts in the chat for that one.

dallas wins games 5 and 6. book it.

Same thing as last year.

Basketball is about tempo and rhythm, and when a team falls out of the groove it's like singing to a different song than the one the band is playing. You never really catch up.

Anyway, it's still the same series as when it started. Dallas has the home court advantage, but with a game left in Miami there's not much margin for error. The people who appointed Avery Johnson a genius are going to be calling him a bum this morning.

The people who appointed Avery Johnson a genius are going to be calling him a bum this morning.
Which pretty much defines today's (all too common) knee jerk fan.

I thought it was interesting last night that the Mavs basically played like the Pistons. They didn't get to the FT line, shot too many 3s, wilted under the physicality of the Heat, couldn't control Wade and played Shaq straight up.

Did anyone notice if Avery Johnson had a tan? ;)

The people who appointed Avery Johnson a genius are going to be calling him a bum this morning.
Maybe Avery isn't a bum. Maybe Flip isn't a bum. Maybe Riley is just kicking everybody's butt.

I like believing this. Makes me feel a lot better about the Pistons next year.

They didn't get to the FT line, shot too many 3s, wilted under the physicality of the Heat, couldn't control Wade and played Shaq straight up.

Actually, I thought part of their problem on defense was that they still doubled Shaq too much, and didn't rotate to the Heat's perimeter guys quickly enough.

Jerry Stackhouse suspended for Game 5. :hurt:

Hubie will have to eat his words about Stackhouse just "doing his job and not allowing a layup." Hubie kept saying that like a mantra.

Enter Stern, the NBA Control Freak.

The first thing I thought when Stackhouse suspension story broke was...I hate the NBA. Just let it go for crying out loud. Like Shaq can't take a hit like that and doesn't give way more than he gets every game.

All these suspensions this playoff season. The team with the suspended player has often come back in the next game and played well, in spite of the suspension. But The Stern Controller goes too far when he does something that could determine the outcome of the Finals.

I'm still glad Stack fouled him. I'm really sorry if it costs them the game. But Phoenix did okay after Raja Bell suspension, and Dallas did okay after Jason Terry suspension. GO MAVS!:fingerscr

Our only ex-Piston in the finals. Close to getting a ring. Suspended.:frusty:

Sucks that he was suspended, but there's no doubting that it was a thug-tastic foul.

Anyway, it's still the same series as when it started. Dallas has the home court advantage, but with a game left in Miami there's not much margin for error. The people who appointed Avery Johnson a genius are going to be calling him a bum this morning.

No I don't think Avery will be called a bum. A bum is someone who is getting his butt kicked in the playoffs by a lesser team and doesn't make in-game adjustments. Flip is a bum.

Avery is going to be a great coach. He may have gotten outcoached by Pat Riley in Game 4. That's one game. Dallas dominated the first three games until the unfortunate meltdown. I think too much is being made of this Miami momentum. Dallas couldn't get a basket last night. Is that really because of Miami's defense, or because Dallas had a bad shooting night? I predict that Dirk and Terry will both have better shooting nights in the next game.

Dallas in 6.:nod:

Stack has been suspended for Game 5 for his flagrant foul on Shaq in game 4.

Check out the link and a vid of the foul below.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2487553

No question it was a hard foul. I'd have to say that the first half of it was clean, Stack initially went for the ball with his left hand.

But because Shaq had it protected on his right side, Stack went for his head with the right hand.

Tough call. I don't know, what do you guys think? Should he have been suspended?

I feel strongly that he should not have been suspended, because: a) Shaq's huge weight advantage over Stack mitigates the harshness of the foul; b) Shaq did not appear to have been injured; and c) suspending a key player at this stage in the playoffs can determine the outcome of the series. As far as I'm concerned, Stack was just playing hard and making a foul that he knew would keep Shaq from scoring (which is the way you are supposed to foul Shaq). Shaq, too, plays a very physical game (see, e.g., Ben's loose teeth), and he ought to be able to take as well as give punishment. In my view, this kind of suspension of a key player should only be meted out where there is an intent to injure and a resulting injury. The sad thing is that the suspension could give Miami the advantage in game 5, and the momentum from three straight victories could give them what they need to win game 6 and the championship.

Stack has been suspended for Game 5 for his flagrant foul on Shaq in game 4.


Tough call. I don't know, what do you guys think? Should he have been suspended?

It's only a tough call for me because I really want Miami to lose.

I really was hoping to look at the play (thanks for the link Jammer) and say "yep, that was total B.S." But I watched it several times. If I'm a Miami fan I would be livid. I'm pretty sure if somebody did that to one of our Pistons we would be calling for their heads.

I'm sorry guys. It sux. It really does. But it looked like a dirty hit and Shaq could have been hurt pretty bad. If I'm the NBA, I suspend him. It's too bad Dallas took the gas pipe in game 3 and put themselves in this position. They seem to be unraveling.

You know, we shoulda taken care of business ourselves and not hoped another team would knock off the Heat. We'll have to wait till next year, but fair is fair, and IMO, the suspension was warranted. He looked like he was trying to hurt him. He even strutted off like he had made a point.

Maybe Shaq should have been suspended in the past for his own stuff, but I am with the NBA on this one. It was on national TV too. They can't send a message that crap like that is ok.

Just my humble opinion. :humble:

It's only a tough call for me because I really want Miami to lose.

I really was hoping to look at the play (thanks for the link Jammer) and say "yep, that was total B.S." But I watched it several times. If I'm a Miami fan I would be livid. I'm pretty sure if somebody did that to one of our Pistons we would be calling for their heads.

I'm sorry guys. It sux. It really does. But it looked like a dirty hit and Shaq could have been hurt pretty bad. If I'm the NBA, I suspend him. It's too bad Dallas took the gas pipe in game 3 and put themselves in this position. They seem to be unraveling.

You know, we shoulda taken care of business ourselves and not hoped another team would knock off the Heat. We'll have to wait till next year, but fair is fair, and IMO, the suspension was warranted. He looked like he was trying to hurt him. He even strutted off like he had made a point.

Maybe Shaq should have been suspended in the past for his own stuff, but I am with the NBA on this one. It was on national TV too. They can't send a message that crap like that is ok.

Just my humble opinion. :humble:

Yeah, I have to agree with you completely Darth. I was on the fence about it before, but your post helped me see the light. Good suspension. You've got to say one thing for the NBA, they aren't afraid to suspend guys in the playoffs. How many games is that now?

Its a combination of 1. me not wanted Miami to win, 2. Shaq getting away with crap all the time and 3. the Mavs completely tanking the past 2 games.

Maybe Avery isn't a bum. Maybe Flip isn't a bum. Maybe Riley is just kicking everybody's butt.

I like believing this. Makes me feel a lot better about the Pistons next year.

Avery is no bum. You see him screaming at his players and right now he's probably telling them to take it to the hole. We all know Joe D. had to of talked to Flip about the jumpshooting. I hope next season Flip toughens up and tells these guys what to do. He's supposed to be the coach.

It could of turned out worse. Wade had to push Shaq to the ground to stop him from killing Jerry. If Shaq got suspended:second: place for the Heat.

It could of turned out worse. Wade had to push Shaq to the ground to stop him from killing Jerry. If Shaq got suspended:second: place for the Heat.

I wasn't sure if Shaq was trying to come back at him or if Wade just pushed him at the wrong time and knocked him back down. I think Shaq's too smart to get tossed on a play like that.

I'm so mad about the Stackhouse suspension. Only because it is a reminder of how soft the league has become.

Sure Stack fouled him really damn hard. How else are you supposed to stop Shaq on a layup? It's a foregone conclusion that you hammer and shove.

It's such a double standard with Shaq. He's big so he's allowed to use his size to dominate, but when players try to body him up or match his physical presence that pushes them over the line for what is allowed.

Sickening.

GO MAVS!

Yep. you can't even breath on guys anymore and it sucks. People will be comparing Wade and Lebron to Jordan, but they wouldn't even do half of what Michael did if they played back in time. If jordan played today...:jaw::scared::bolt:

himat, if you were able to see the Pistons play in late 80s, you would see how much more of a man's sport it was. Teams regularly scored 100+ in the playoffs (without a lot of gratuitous free throws) and the pace was generally fast but players were very tough and physical. They didn't look or play for bailouts. They knew they were going to get fouled and would try like hell to make the basket regardless of the whistles.

Today's NBA is more gentle, but lacks passion and drama. The "great" players pad their numbers with foul shots or 3 pointers. The ability to spin, fade and crossover are missing.

I still love basketball, but this is not the best that many of us have seen.

It wasn't even like this a couple years ago. Ever since the Pistons won in 04 the foul calling has been changed. Pistons kept teams under 70 5 straight games. It's almost impossible to do that even once now.

I'm so mad about the Stackhouse suspension. Only because it is a reminder of how soft the league has become.

Sure Stack fouled him really damn hard. How else are you supposed to stop Shaq on a layup? It's a foregone conclusion that you hammer and shove.

It's such a double standard with Shaq. He's big so he's allowed to use his size to dominate, but when players try to body him up or match his physical presence that pushes them over the line for what is allowed.

Sickening.

Welcome to the wuss-ified NBA.

Welcome to the wuss-ified NBA.

If we keep the debate to one particular play rather than looking at the overall trend of refereeing in the NBA, I still believe it appears Stackhouse intentionally attempted to hurt Shaq.

I think we neither desire nor require that kind of behavior in the NBA. Hard fouls are cool. Attempts to injure are not. I thought Stack's foul fell into the latter category.

I'm not sure myself that Stack was trying to hurt him, but I'll certainly agree that it was on the more thuggish end of the scale between a hard foul and a dirty play. I don't think it was that different from Posey running right over one of the Bulls' players in the first round (I think it was Hinrich), and nobody argued about the suspension he got for that one, so it seems justifiable to me to suspend Stack for this one.

i think the suspension is a joke, it wasn't that bad of a foul. looks like the nba wants a game 7.

To me, a flagrant foul worthy of suspension involves certain dangerous moves:

* Targeting the head
* Throwing a guy by the jersey or arm
* Undercutting the legs
* Hip-checking without going for the ball
* A full-swing clothesline or shove
* Body slamming to the floor

Stackhouse's foul wasn't quite there for me. Giving Shaq a hard foul when he's moving at full speed is like trying to foul a parade float -- you just pick a spot and throw everything you've got. But we've seen enough suspensions in these playoffs to know how it would turn out. Meanwhile Shaq can loosen teeth without being "flagrant," and he'll be allowed to do it just like Mutombo and Malone were. Big men get certain privileges.

To me the main message the NBA is trying to send is score more points. Now players on both sides are going to be thinking twice before fouling someone on route to the basket.

After all that talk about the new NBA and how obsolete defense is Shaq is only avg 13.8 PPG and no team has scored over 100. Dallas only scored what 7 points in the 4th quarter of game 4.

I wasn't sure if Shaq was trying to come back at him or if Wade just pushed him at the wrong time and knocked him back down. I think Shaq's too smart to get tossed on a play like that.

I don't think Shaq was looking to get back at Stack at all. I think it was the exact opposite. He was trying to downplay the foul. I think he was just trying to get back up really quickly to show that he wasn't affected by the hard foul at all - kind of a pride thing.Then Wade came over to try and help him up, but Shaq was already off balance trying to steady himself.

If we keep the debate to one particular play rather than looking at the overall trend of refereeing in the NBA, I still believe it appears Stackhouse intentionally attempted to hurt Shaq.

I think we neither desire nor require that kind of behavior in the NBA. Hard fouls are cool. Attempts to injure are not. I thought Stack's foul fell into the latter category.


Agreed.

IMO, he definitely intentionally went for the head on the foul, no doubt in my mind.

A hard foul is one thing. A dirty foul is another. If he'd stayed away from the head, I think it would have been a clean, hard foul. But he went headhunting and that isn't cool, no matter how big Shaq is.

Is there anything about Stack's prior history or personality that would support the idea that he was intentionally trying to hurt Shaq? While Stack is up in the air trying to foul Shaq to make sure he doesn't score, he doesn't have the luxury to be selective about where he hits him, and he knows that (in light of Shaq's enormous mass) he has to hit him harder than he would an ordinary player. I think you need the clearest evidence of intent to injure before you suspend a key player in a finals series. I don't see it here. And I am not even sure that Stern would say that there was a clear intent to injure. I think Stern is applying a less stringent standard.

Here is a link to an interview with Stack regarding the foul and the suspension: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/basketball/14844283.htm

I think Stack makes a persuasive case in his defense. On the other hand, he does allude to some "prior history" that I had forgotten about -- namely, his foul on Joe Johnson in last year's Dallas-Phoenix playoff series. Johnson was attempting a breakaway dunk when Stack fouled him hard. When Johnson hit the floor, he broke the orbital bone in his face, and was out for a week or more before miraculously returning to play in the playoffs. Stack was called for a flagrant foul in that instance, but to the best of my recollection there was no suspension. This prior incident may well have influenced Stern in this case, but it does not change my mind that this suspension is unjustified.

I'm rereading this whole thread to try to find some solace for my wishful thinking that the Mavs aren't in as much trouble as I worry they are. Trying to make sense of it always give me an illusion of control.

Basically I'm hoping the last 1.5 Mavs games aren't the beginning and perhaps middle of a Mavs meltdown for the series. Too soon to call a confidence-killing, spirit-destroying meltdown but...

I'm concerned. I didn't care that much earlier in the playoffs who won if we didn't. But once again, the media hype has made me really nauseated at the idea of Shaq and Wade winning a ring together.:frusty:

CMON MAVS! GO MAVS!

MAY THE BASKET LOOK LIKE A SWIMMING POOL FOR THE MAVS!

I am concerned too. The Mavs had this series and now Miami is looking good. I will wait to see. It looks like these games at the elite level can change dramatically with a lucky shot, a poor call, etc. Then it snowballs.

Dallas has to turn up the speed. Hopefully the extra day of rest will help. I think Stackhouse is as much a liability as an asset so I am not bothered by his absense.

Chat is open for Game 5 folks! COME ON DOWN!

I didn't even think the officiating had been that bad for most of the game, in spite of the big FT discrepancy in Miami's favor, but that last foul on the Mavs was THE WORST call in playoff history. BAR NONE.

Nice phantom foul call on Dirk, Wade kicks his legs against the defender, and wins it at the line in OT.

FTs were 49-25 for the Heat.

NBA referees are so bloody incompetent, it makes me want to puke.

Dirk is kicking and shoving equipment in the hallway as he walks to the dressing room. ANGST Dirk!

Forget Howard's screw up, Wade should have never been shooting the foul shots. Typical crap, a BOGUS call that decides the game in OT.

Where was the foul on that last drive by Wade??? WHERE???

I am not saying this game was fixed but my God, WHERE WAS THE FOUL?? That was great defense by Devin Harris on a couple fo plays.

This is crazy, they let Wade get away with anything he wants, he gets calls it took Jordan 5 years to get!!!!

Dallas will win the next two at home............Let`s kick some a&& Mav`s.

Didn't watch, but it does seem a mite outrageous that Wade matched the Mavs' FTA by himself -- the freethrow disparity was massive. And a phantom call in the waning seconds to decide the game on top of that?

*sigh*

I think I'm going to take a break from the NBA. Maybe in another decade they'll have shifted back to 'encouraging' good basketball again and it won't seem such a disgusting charade.

A complete, Webberesque chokejob from Howard (and Dampier ... and Nowitzki ... and Terry) - but good %%%%ing lord.

We need to boycott the rest of the finals. There was no foul on Wade at the end and refs do not make calls with 1.9 seconds left. I just wasted 3 hours for nothing.

http://nelsok.com/images/72102485.gif
Palm - palm - walk - no contact - to the line.

Don't even get me started on Wade palming or double dribbling.

I think I will take a break too. No more Finals for me. As a fan, this is insulting to watch.

:frusty::mad::rolleyes::argue::smash::noidea::Cry: :crutch::twitch::mad2::tape::rip::sick::yell: :pout::rain::yield::violin::mmph::doh:

:censored:

Roscoe and Ahb, right. This was an insult to all basketball fans. No more finals for me. It was an outrage. The refs do not make calls with 1.9 seconds to go and then there was no foul any way. That was too much. The NBA is ruining this wonderful game.

ahb, thanks (I think) for posting that video.

In the dying seconds of a NBA Finals game, I simply cannot understand how a foul was called on that play. (Well, I can understand -- but it doesn't make me feel any better about it....)

As recently as six weeks ago, I didn't really have anything against Wade and the Heat. Now I get all queasy just thinking about how much of a darling he's become. :P He actually makes me appreciate MJ more (at least the '84-'93 MJ who had to battle the Celts and our Boys back when things were suitably rough), and y'all know how I feel about him.

Watch it again. The best part is, the foul was called on Dirk, not Harris.

Either way it's ridiculous. Even leaving the particulars of the situation aside (1.9s, game 5 Finals), contact was almost non-existent. There was no reach-in; he wasn't hacked; he got the shot off cleanly.

A sickening call no matter how you look at it, but that's the NBA.

Should call that game "The Foul" Wade ran out of gas in OT and was looking for fouls almost everytime he attempted a shot. The NBA is not supposed to let big games be decided at the line. There was no foul on that last play. Even if the ref thought there was it was so obvious that Wade was looking for a call instead of trying to get a shot off. Game should not have ended like that. Only going to add fuel to the conspiracy theorists.

I've seen an alternate angle now, and it does look like Harris got him on the elbow. So I guess it isn't completely preposterous.

I also read that Wade set a new record for FTs made in a Finals game -- a record that Bob Pettit has held since 1958! I'm not sure what to say about that except :puke:

What's this I'm reading about a timeout being called after the first of Wade's final FTs? There seems to be some controversy about whether the Mavs actually asked for that timeout -- which is significant, because if they had called timeout after the second FT, they could have inbounded from midcourt.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

I also understand that Wade may have been guilty of a backcourt violation on his final play. I wonder if that's what AJ seems so agitated about in that clip?

A complete, Webberesque chokejob from Howard (and Dampier ... and Nowitzki ... and Terry)...

Agree with your assessment, at least with respect to Howard and Nowitzki. Wade would not even have had the opportunity to win it for Miami at the end if those two players had done the basics. Howard missed two free throws in OT, Nowitzki (a 93% FT shooter in the regular season) split a pair in OT, and Nowitzki's atrocious defense on Payton allowed him to score an easy bucket in OT. Dallas does not know how to finish out tight games. If they did, they could have taken two games in Miami, but instead lost all three. We'll see what happens in Dallas. If they aren't demoralized, they can still win this thing.

There seems to be some controversy about whether the Mavs actually asked for that timeout -- which is significant, because if they had called timeout after the second FT, they could have inbounded from midcourt.

I also understand that Wade may have been guilty of a backcourt violation on his final play. I wonder if that's what AJ seems so agitated about in that clip?

The Dallas Morning News had nothing on either of these items. What they reported was that Avery Johnson signalled to his players after the frist free throw that he wanted a timeout called -- meaning a timeout after Wade shot his second free throw. He apparently did not explicitly say he wanted the timeout called after the second (and not before), and Howard interpreted Johnson to be asking for a timeout after the first free throw. The paper further reported that the referee indicated that Howard asked for the timeout not once, but twice. There is nothing in the Dallas Morning News suggesting that Wade may have been guilty of a backcourt violation on the last play.

I think I'm going to take a break from the NBA. Maybe in another decade they'll have shifted back to 'encouraging' good basketball again and it won't seem such a disgusting charade.

A complete, Webberesque chokejob from Howard (and Dampier ... and Nowitzki ... and Terry) - but good %%%%ing lord.

I was thinking the same thing. Josh Howard looked like C-Webb after his boo-boo. On that last play, Hubie thought Harris leaned in to Wade with his leg. Like all of you, I disagree. I hate when the refs "decide" the game. But I will say Dallas still should have won this thing. They missed some FTs. Miami's defense in the waning minutes has been pretty good, too. Nowitzki made an impossible shot toward the end of regulation. It's clear, however, that the NBA has anointed Wade the league's "new superstar." He got the star treatment in the end there.

On that last play, Hubie thought Harris leaned in to Wade with his leg. Like all of you, I disagree. I hate when the refs "decide" the game.

But as micro said a few posts earlier, it doesn't matter what Harris did--they called the foul on Dirk!

This is Stern's new NBA and Wade has exposed it. 25 free throws. Wow! Exciting basketball. Did you see the illegal screen call in the 3rd with Dallas up 8 and rolling? How about the double team on the side corner in the fourth with the touch foul on Wade 25 feet from the hoop?

Refs don't call a foul with time running out unless it is practically a take done.

Refs don't bail out a shooter who takes it upon himself to drive through the whole team at any point in the game.

Whether Dallas or Miami played better is meaningless with calls such as these. So is the Howard time out call. The game was over. Wade threw up a wild shot and Miami was beaten. Sorry, I am out of the rest of these playoffs.

This is Stern's new NBA and Wade has exposed it. 25 free throws. Wow! Exciting basketball. Did you see the illegal screen call in the 3rd with Dallas up 8 and rolling? How about the double team on the side corner in the fourth with the touch foul on Wade 25 feet from the hoop?

Refs don't call a foul with time running out unless it is practically a take done.

Refs don't bail out a shooter who takes it upon himself to drive through the whole team at any point in the game.

Whether Dallas or Miami played better is meaningless with calls such as these. So is the Howard time out call. The game was over. Wade threw up a wild shot and Miami was beaten. Sorry, I am out of the rest of these playoffs.

No its not very exciting. And we wonder why team USA is so vulnerable in the International games. These guys get so used to getting bailed out than it becomes part of their game. Wade flying through out of control should not merit a foul but he seems to get it everytime.

This is a repost of mine from elsewhere, regarding the Mavs being at fault for less than aggressive play.

20 years ago, finishing was the key to scoring, not flopping. If we're going to blame the Mavs for trying to make baskets by avoiding contact, instead of running into players and dancing like spasmodic chickens, then that's a vote for dumbing down the sport.

We're being conditioned to accept low scoring games, with 20%+ of the scoring coming from fouls. That's lousy basketball no matter what league you are in.

Bottom line, Wade is a great finisher, and if he can't finish that drive, the Heat didn't deserve to win the game. The irony is that with minimal contact, Wade bailed out on his own shot.

The Mavs earned that one point lead even with their missed FTs and passive offense.

I posted Iverson and Kemp vids at PF last night. Tons of dunks with contact. Didn't see many AND1s. Those guys looked to put the ball in the hoop, not for a bailout from the referees.

You've essentially got the same problem hockey had. Players flopping for calls. It's time to start calling the flops and encourage these guys to make shots.

I agree, micro. Unfortunately, David Stern is moving us in the other direction and I think it will be a long time before the pendulum starts its return swing.

As for dunks with contact, I haven't watched those vids yet -- I don't have a way of watching wmv files on my home computer -- but I wanted to say that those kinds of dunks are my favourite. One of the best I've ever seen dates from the mid to late '80s. 'Nique went baseline on the Celts and rose up against the entire Celtic frontcourt. There was a tangled clash of bodies and limbs right at the rim -- four guys! -- but 'Nique held on, floated in the air for a moment with the ball in both hands way down around his knees, and when the Celts started to fall, CRAMMED it with vicious violence on top of all three of them. There was no foul called.

Those were the days.... :nod:

It's really quite sickening. This is David Stern's new brand of basketball and I don't think I want to be a fan of it. Who cares who the NBA champ is when they wouldn't be there without the refs' help? Of course it's all about money. Creating or "helping" to create superstars means more $$$$, more jersey sales, more casual fans. More games = more ticket sales. I don't expect any nba finals to go less than 7 games ever again.

I don't buy the bull%%%% that people say a good team can overcome the refs and bad calls. The refs can put teams that have no business being in games, in a position to win games. Or how about the fact that a single team like the Heat can be called so differently offensively and defensively? No one can touch Wade without getting a foul. But Posey and Haslem can MAUL Dirk and they get away with murder.

If the FTA were switched, the game score would be 120-85. A 35pt blowout (Obviously they wouldn't have gotten to OT, but the point remains).

But really, the ticky tack fouls aren't the problem. The problem is consistency. You can't expect the refs to call the same foul on each side of the court. You can't expect the refs to call the same foul in DIFFERENT BUILDINGS. How legitimate can a sport be when it's a completely different game on every building and each side of the court?

Missed most of the game due to travel, but saw the highlights and some of the post game comments. Interesting none of the ABC/ESPN - NBA media/commentators are commenting on the last foul called or the fact that Wade took as many fouls shots as the entire Mavs team. :frusty:

Either they are afraid to say something in fear of losing their spot or they are happy:nod: that the Heat are up 3-2 no matter how they got there.

Realistically this series should already be over with a 4-1 Mavs finals win. The problem is they don't know how to finish games so maybe they don't derserve to be champions. The two missed FT's by Howard was a classic choke job like Dirks in game 3.

The Heat don't look like champions either as you make case that the either of the four teams that finished ahead of them pistons,Spurs, mavs or Suns are clearly better. But, you have to give to Wade for not only hitting key shots when needed, but being smart enough to know that Sterns' refs would bail him out when needed so just attack the rim and see what happens. If our own Mr. Bigshot would use that ploy more often without complaining, he would probably get more phanthom calls too.

I am not really into conspiracies, but when teams are closely matched as these two now appear to be????, the refs could possibly give the edge to one if the other doesn't do what it has to do. This means that the Mavs have to play mistake free ball to get over the hump and win this. In other words if the Mavs take care of business in game 6 as they should, they will have to play above the refs to make sure that they win in game 7. Wade will do the same thing he has done in each game to get to the line if it is close or if they within a 6 point striking distance in the last 5 minutes.

As a friend of mine said, ABC could stand for Anybody But Cuban, but I think the NBA nation wants to see Shaq get another ring just to prove his leagacy and hear his silly sound bites for the next year, ZO for sentimental health reasons, The Glove so that if there is chance he get to the HOF he has a ring to back him up, and Riley because dispite the Van Guilty situation with his coach, he is well liked and respected around the NBA.

Missed most of the game due to travel, but saw the highlights and some of the post game comments. Interesting none of the ABC/ESPN - NBA media/commentators are commenting on the last foul called or the fact that Wade took as many fouls shots as the entire Mavs team. :frusty:

Interesting but not surprising. ESPN has long been in cahoots with the people/leagues they cover. ABC is now along for the ride since they have morphed into the same network. ABC used to be the network of Wide World of Sports and the incomparable Jim McKay. Them days are long gone.

Mr. Big Shot...Big Dummy!!!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
-------------------
"We run a disciplined offense here!", "Coach all the way with a red hot poker" "One on One"
:nod: :mad:

Is it safe to say 2 Mavs blowouts are rife.

Interesting but not surprising. ESPN has long been in cahoots with the people/leagues they cover. ABC is now along for the ride since they have morphed into the same network. ABC used to be the network of Wide World of Sports and the incomparable Jim McKay. Them days are long gone.

Yeah, all the ABC/ESPN folks on TV and radio seem to concentrate on was time out called by Josh Howard, and defending the refs for calling the TO. Greg Anthony was only one who indictated that it appeared that Howard was motioning to the bench should we call a TO?

This potential heat championship will have a black flag over it as it appears that the better team is getting he shaft from the refs and the media types (and of course their own late FT shooting and lack of defense when it counts.)

Bottom line, Wade is a great finisher, and if he can't finish that drive, the Heat didn't deserve to win the game. The irony is that with minimal contact, Wade bailed out on his own shot.


Micro, I think your observation is right on the mark, and it is something I had not really thought about. Wade should have made the shot, but missed it because he bailed out, not because of any incidental contact. Perhaps he was worried about an offensive foul call, or perhaps he was worried about his shot being blocked. But for reasons having nothing to do with the contact, he missed a shot he usually makes. And that should have been the game.

Note all the apologists out there--all the professional writers on Yahoo etc. who ignore what real basketball fans can see. They try and pull the rug over the smell. Absolutely, Wade went in and jacked up a shot out of control and was rewarded for it. That one against four brick wiped out what would have been the real story: Dirk hitting that tough shot over Shaq on the baseline. I am not watching this circus they dare to call baskeball.

When this series started, I was pulling for Miami. I wanted our guys to spank em but I wazn't mad at em. I thought Miami had the better team and the better coaching (no dis to Avery). I thought they were hungrier. Besides, I would feel better having lost to the eventual champs rather than to the "chumps."

After this last game, I'm changing my position. Miami's run smells so fishy that it outta have an asterick behind it eventually. To throw Stack outta the game for a hard foul on Shaq (of all people) was blatant. To call that foul on D-Wade at the end to allow him to win it from the line was blatant. Too bad Josh had to open his mouth.

The refs (and powers that be) don't seem to want the PLAYERS to decide games these days. Except when they call time out. They act like they have too many Shaq and D-Wade jerseys all printed up and ready to go. And maybe they do!

The only problem I have with Stacks foul was someone could have been hurt. That someone being under Shaq! I've seen guys dislocate their elbow from landing in a sit. like that. Stack had no play on the ball.

Dirk's phantom foul ranks right up there with Laimbeer's in rigged sports history.

Over and back... push off... push off... phantom foul... tough TO call. Nice string of events for the national TV audience to see.

The NBA got roasted on all of the national radio shows yesterday (except Dan Patrick's, but then he's a master hugger).

Credibility in sports is a major issue.

Interesting points I heard, was less outrage about the foul (which is stupid for reasons further in this post) and more about the backcourt violation and the fact the referees wouldn't discuss the botched timeout seeing as how it was a deadball situation.

I'm really tired of superstar calls. I don't care if "that is the way it is". Once you treat one player different, then it becomes ok to treat one team different. One coach different. One teammate different. Eroding any consistency.

It's why Danny Fortson fouls out in 16 minutes, and Dwyane Wade shoots 25 free throws. A totally uneven playing field when the differentiator is meant to be talent and effort.

Stern speaks out on Cuban's outburst.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2491783

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060620

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Another 250K. Coupled with the 200K he was fined earlier these playoffs that's almost half a million in recent weeks!

Stern treats Cuban as his personal cash-cow.

I'm really tired of superstar calls. I don't care if "that is the way it is". Once you treat one player different, then it becomes ok to treat one team different. One coach different. One teammate different. Eroding any consistency.
And Integrity/Credibility!

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060620

I think this pretty much sums it up.
All the comparisons between Wade and Jordan need to stop right now. There's no way Jordan would have gotten that call in the final seconds of Game 5.
-- Chris Richardson, Charleston, W.V.
:hail:

Jordan would have made the damn shot and enhanced his godhood. Not flop like a chicken.

Finals Chat is open. I am boycotting this game, and possibly the rest of the Finals (got a movie to watch for both game nights). But it's there if you want to watch the sick drama. Btw, if Danny Crawford is refereeing, kiss this game good bye for Dallas...

TheeTFD
The only problem I have with Stacks foul was someone could have been hurt. That someone being under Shaq! I've seen guys dislocate their elbow from landing in a sit. like that. Stack had no play on the ball.

I'm glad Stack busted Shaq's azz! Stack was straight-up NOT HAVIN Shaq's bullyin tactics at money time. I appreciate that. He did what Dampier should have done.

I think the league is afraid of what an angry Shaq might do to another player in a fight. I'll tell ya what! If Shaq and Stack got into it, I'd put my money on Stack all day long. Stack ain't no joke and Shaq ain't no superman. It ain't the size of a dog in a fight.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060620

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Great column by Bill Simmons.

I found myself wondering how Games 3 and 5 in Dallas were even that close. By a rough estimate if you take 5-10 pts for Wade(superstar cookin') and 5-10 points for Shaq (superstar cookin') and 5-10 pts for home cookin', well none of us should be so surprised that they lost all three. Dallas would have had to win in reality by 15-30 points to beat the Miami team with all that help they got.

I'm not saying Dallas didn't play poorly in places. I'm saying that the bar was much higher for their performance than it was for Miami before they ever even got on the court there.

It's very painful to feel that this game I have learned to love may be stolen from me because of the ugly money hungry power grabbing control freaks in the NBA. Anything to increase their profits. Shame on them for making a sham of the NBA Finals. Shame on the television and corporate media for being mouthpieces for that same ugliness. It's sickening.

GO MAVS. PLEASE WIN THIS GAME. IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU DO.

That was a very enlightening article. I am glad that game 5 is getting talked about. The NBA always seems to get away with these things by relying on the ignorance of their audience. It takes sports writers and talk show hosts to point these things out.

People should be upset. Its like the NBA wanted a new series to fit their "New NBA" so bad that they are losing their composure trying to make it happen.

I liked the part where the ESPN guy pointed out the dangers in a superstar system. If your team does not have one then whats the point of watching?

Wade is a great player and its unfortunate that the league is almost forcing us not to like him. He can be one of the greatest players but who can like him now? Who can respect him? Its going to be very interesting this summer if Wade tries some of these uncontrolled flops in the International Tourney.

Unofortunately I also think the author is right in that the league will clean it up for games 6,7 and the better team Dallas will win the title. Then all this will get swept under the rug - until next year.

By the way - unless you are participating in determining the TV ratings ( survery, equip hookup ) it really does not matter if you watch or not.

As far as I know the Finals ratings are going to be determined as they always have been and the only way they can be which is by taking a random sample of viewers. Unless there is some new technology that can track what all TV sets are tuned to.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060620

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Wow, that is one of the best sports articles I've ever read. Its like the guy was inside my head. Its so nice to see an article like that written on such a widely viewed and respected site as espn.

My favourite part of the entire article was:

..."I've been fascinated by Gary Payton's mini-renaissance -- not that he's good again, but how he figured out that he is NOT good and adjusted accordingly."

Another 250K. Coupled with the 200K he was fined earlier these playoffs that's almost half a million in recent weeks!

Stern treats Cuban as his personal cash-cow.

And Cuban also matches each fine dollar for dollar and donates the money to charity. So when you factor that in, we're talking about almost a MILLION dollars for the playoffs alone!

Dallas is in the midst of a pretty huge collapse, from the last minutes of the 2nd quarter up to well into the 3rd now. They're very much on their way to losing this game, and handing the title to Miami.

Could be the best thing for the Pistons...
let's hope the Heat spend the summer partying... and come back fat n sassy next year.

By the way - unless you are participating in determining the TV ratings ( survery, equip hookup ) it really does not matter if you watch or not.
It matters to me.

Could be the best thing for the Pistons...
let's hope the Heat spend the summer partying... and come back fat n sassy next year.Do you honestly think that the Heat are better than the Pistons, whether "fat n sassy" or not?

Of course, they weren't better than the Mavs, either, but that doesn't matter.

Do you honestly think that the Heat are better than the Pistons, whether "fat n sassy" or not?

Of course, they weren't better than the Mavs, either, but that doesn't matter.

The Pistons didn't prove they were the better team when they had the chance. Dallas, although hurt by the referees a lot this series, couldn't overcome losing three in a row. Very disappointing performance on their home floor. I'm just glad Michael Doleac got a ring. That guy really deserves it. :laugh:

Those of you who said Riley improved this team with the trades, go ahead and take a bow, but I think the rule changes and Wade's penchant for attacking the basket were the biggest factors. I wish the Pistons had a guy like Wade. Oh, that's right, they could have drafted him and instead drafted Darko.

Could be the best thing for the Pistons...
let's hope the Heat spend the summer partying... and come back fat n sassy next year.

The target will be on their back as well as the pressure. We can all say that this is the weakest champion of the past 5 years, since they pretty much played only 2 good games and were given the other two victories.

Like Bill Simmons said, the future of the NBA has taken a step back with the Heat winning...

If one player can control the game with a multitude of fouls called for him, because he initiates the contact then we are back to the MJ days (Magic and Jordon) when the superstars get all the calls no matter what the other team does.

They will be the favorite next year of course with the Suns +Amarie, Pistons, Spurs, MAvs and Cavs will be fighting it out to the end.

Coach of the year Avery could not stop his players from those jumpshots. Even though Wade was spectacular and we have to hear about him all summer and the beginning of the next season, I think it was Zo's presence and the blocks that intimidated the Mavs into to relying on the jumpers. J terry the hero of game 1 was horrible in game 6 (7-25 shooting and 2-11 from beyond the 3 pt arc).

The turning point seemed to be the foul that Wade drew by hitting Nowitzki with his elbow... what the hell was that?

But on the other hand, there were several good calls by the refs that they wouldn't have called if they were truly fixing this thing (like the travel on the Heat, or the push on the rebound at the end). So, I'm satisfied that the Mavs were not intentionally robbed. Just another case of the superstar treatment going overboard. Ended the game with 8 straight free throws or something like that.

Give Chauncey 25 free throws in a game and see if the Pistons lose.

Time to enjoy the summer of the Tigers.

Could be the best thing for the Pistons...
let's hope the Heat spend the summer partying... and come back fat n sassy next year. When the Pistons see Walker, Payton and co wearing the same hats you did in 04 it has to inspire.

Interesting call at the end of the game. The refs called a phantom travel on a Haslim who boarded Wade's missed FT which game Dallas one more chance to tie the game.

Give Chauncey 25 free throws in a game and see if the Pistons lose.



Thing is, CB will not draw fouls from the 3 point line.

D Wade take a LOT of jumpers too. They are just college 3's and not NBA 3's. Wade takes 60% jumpers with an eFG of 39%. Chauncey takes 81% jumpers with an eFG of 53%. As good as Wade shoots the ball, Chauncey shoots it better.

In tonight's game, Wade made 10 baskets and Dirk made 10 baskets. The difference was... FTA's.

Tayshawn, that is a losing argument my friend. Wade is easily twice the player Billups is, and regardless of eFG%, DW wins games, and sadly, CB not so much lately.

Tayshawn, that is a losing argument my friend. Wade is easily twice the player Billups is, and regardless of eFG%, DW wins games, and sadly, CB not so much lately.

I concur. Wade can back up his talk on the defensive end when needed and can control the 4th quarter when needed, which he did this series in four straight games.

CB has been inconsistent in post season play since he won his MVP in 2004 and rarely despite the 64 wins this year did we see him actually control 4th quarters the way Wade did. I mean you are talking about a player who hits 90% from the FT line and does not take advantage of it in crunch time when it was necessary. Lets hope he was watching closely this past few weeks and adjusts his game slightly to take advantage of his FT shooting.

I concur. Wade can back up his talk on the defensive end when needed and can control the 4th quarter when needed, which he did this series in four straight games.

CB has been inconsistent in post season play since he won his MVP in 2004 and rarely despite the 64 wins this year did we see him actually control 4th quarters the way Wade did. I mean you are talking about a player who hits 90% from the FT line and does not take advantage of it in crunch time when it was necessary. Lets hope he was watching closely this past few weeks and adjusts his game slightly to take advantage of his FT shooting.

Seems like years ago when you could count on the Pistons to win games in the 4th. Bad calls aside thats what Miami was able to do.

I only got to watch about two minutes of Game 6 because my baby was sick. Dallas was up by 10 late in the 2nd and the crowd was out of its mind cheering ... yet I had a bad feeling that the Mavs were a little TOO pumped up, and that Miami might steal a few points and keep it close at the half. Guess they did better than that. :ohwell:

Going back to an earlier thread, here's a case where Mark Cuban hurt his team. He and Avery Johnson set the wrong tone for the Mavs with all the complaining and hotel changes, IMHO.

Miami isn't a team I admire, but there's nobody else standing so give them their due. They showed great resilience and Riley got them peaking at just the right time. Your 2006 champions, the Miami Heat.

Pat Riley: kudos.

everything else about this makes me sick.

Pat Riley: kudos.

everything else about this makes me sick.
I'll tell you what makes me sick: ESPN's Dan Patrick's line of questioning. To Riley: "How did you feel when you became the coach?" To Wade: "How do you feel right now, Dwayne?" To the the part-owner of the team Mickey (something): "How do you feel about this franchise right now, Mickey?" To Shaq: "How do you feel about your fourth ring?"

Very unimaginative questions from Patrick. Lousy post-game job by ABC/ESPN.

I'm not arguing that Chauncey is a better player, but that he is a better shooter. So it makes sense for him to spend more of his time shooting the ball (80% vs 60%).

You all are just down on CB right now because he didn't go out on a high note. We are talking about one NBA Finals MVP versus another, right?

As far as free throw attempts, you would think that since Wade drives to the hoop > 2x as much as CB, that he would get > 2x the FTA. However, this is not the case. DW got 9.8 FTA/Game in the regular season to CB's 6.3/game. In the playoffs, the numbers remained very consistent- DW=10, CB=6.4.

So, Chauncey seems to be just as good at drawing contact and getting to the line. Especially considering that his overall shot attempts are less. But Wade's FTA accellerated greatly during the last few games without a huge change in his style. 46 FTA's in the last 2 games?!? It would take CB a full 7 game series to match that.

Bottom line for me - Riley found a defensive scheme that his players could execute and he shut down in the Pistons and the Mavs two of the best offenses in the league. And he did it in a completely different way that his old thuggish Knicks teams used to try and do against the Bulls.

I liked Riles back when he was with the Lakers (hated the Celtics) but thought he had become a caricature of himself since. But this was an impressive playoff run. Remember, the Pistons took it to the Heat twice in the last month of so of the season? Sometime between then and now he put in a new defense and got the band of misfit toys to execute it.


Wade probably got bailed out more than he should, but he also flat out shot the ball. And Shaq and Zo stopped all penetration against both the Pistons and the Mavs.


Slippy - you got it just right.

I agree that the Heat were playing great defense. We thought the Pistons were in a shooting slump. Then we thought the Mavs were in a shooting slump. After a while, you have to realize that they were doing something right. Shaq and Mourning were very active on D and denied a lot of easy baskets. D Wade also made some unbelievable plays on D. And the job they did on Dirk was pretty effective.

But that is the funny thing. This series was very low scoring and was ultimately won by a great defensive effort. The high pace Western Conference team was vanquished by a tough team from the East. The Pistons strayed away from the defense first mentality and got bounced.

Defense wins championships is still a valid cliche.

Bottom line...the