One last time.......for all the marbles....everyone get in on it...friends....foes.....lions, redskins, bengals, raiders, bears,etc.

Place: DCFU (http://www.dallascowboyfansunited.com/)

The thread will be opened Friday, 7pm eastern

There is no real debate here, but cowboys fans like to bring it up because they know deep in their hearts that Barry was better.

Remember, Barry had no offensive line and still would have had more yards than Emmit if he had played 2 more years. Barry show some class by letting the great Walter Paytons record stand for a couple more years before Emmitt sqeaked by it. I will give Emmitt credit for getting a couple of rings with his yards though.

Thanks for the link Dakid to show me that nice Cowboy Cheerleader in the lower left hand corner cowboy board. :nod:

There is no real debate here, but cowboys fans like to bring it up because they know deep in their hearts that Barry was better.

Remember, Barry had no offensive line and still would have had more yards than Emmit if he had played 2 more years. Barry show some class by letting the great Walter Paytons record stand for a couple more years before Emmitt sqeaked by it. I will give Emmitt credit for getting a couple of rings with his yards though.

Thanks for the link Dakid to show me that nice Cowboy Cheerleader in the lower left hand corner cowboy board. :nod:

Both were great backs. Barry was greater.

Sanders:
He reached the 1,000-yard mark in each of his seasons and ran for a career best 2,053 yards in 1997.

Elected to 10 Pro Bowls. Every season of his career.

Sanders was named first- or second-team All-NFL every year of his career.

Barry Sanders created everything he got. There was no real passing game to stretch the field out for him. Detroit never had the personnel to help him constantly get to the endzone and he had a crappy line. I would
have Sanders in his prime over emmit...

This is great!

Now if you would like to bring all this over to the DCFU Friday, we can can hash this out.

Should be a good time!

There is no real debate here, but cowboys fans like to bring it up because they know deep in their hearts that Barry was better.

Remember, Barry had no offensive line and still would have had more yards than Emmit if he had played 2 more years. Barry show some class by letting the great Walter Paytons record stand for a couple more years before Emmitt sqeaked by it. I will give Emmitt credit for getting a couple of rings with his yards though.

Thanks for the link Dakid to show me that nice Cowboy Cheerleader in the lower left hand corner cowboy board. :nod:

Make sure your girlfriend/wife doesn't walk in on you staring at the cheerleader, she might give you the slap :)

No doubt in my mind. Barry all the way.

Definitely Barry, but I can't think of a worse waste of my time than going on a Cowboys board to debate it. :ohwell:

Make sure your girlfriend/wife doesn't walk in on you staring at the cheerleader, she might give you the slap :)

Believe me the wife was initially upset when I put up my Piston Automotion Calendar here in my office, but when I showed her it actually had a schedule of games on it she calmed down:eyebrows:

Not only did the Lions not have much of an offensive line for Barry, they seldom had a passing attack to keep some of the defenders busy. They could always key on Barry and nobody else made them pay.

Definitely, Barry was in a class by himself.

Definitely Barry, but I can't think of a worse waste of my time than going on a Cowboys board to debate it. :ohwell:

Yup, agreed. Can't see Barry winning this debate on a Cowboys website. Even with the honourary "bone" thrown to us here on a Detroit area site.

there is no debate. sanders was obviously superior.

I like to look at the debate this way. What if Emmit played his career as a Lion and Barry was a Cowboy.

How do you think their careers would have played out. I bet we wouldn`t even be having this discussion.

Barry Sanders with the OL that Emmit had...........Please..........

Emmit with the OL Barry had.......................Emmit who???

Barry Sanders, hands down..........

E Smith could play for the Pistons. Talk about going to work.
3 rings, most TDs in a season, Smith smoked him.

Barry won only one category. Hilite reel. And his O line wasn't that bad.
Barry would've scored way more TDs if Wayneo let him play at the goal line. I'm sure that sucked some of the life out of barry.

E Smith could play for the Pistons. Talk about going to work.
3 rings, most TDs in a season, Smith smoked him.

Barry won only one category. Hilite reel. And his O line wasn't that bad.
Barry would've scored way more TDs if Wayneo let him play at the goal line. I'm sure that sucked some of the life out of barry.

I think Bobby Ross sucked a lot of the life out of Barry.

Totally different runners. Smith was straightforward. Barry was sideways, backward and then forward for 20 yards when you thought he might lose six. The guy didn't have too many playoff highlights, though. Having Barry and not building a great team around him is evidence how bad an organization the Lions truly are (were?).

Having Barry and not building a great team around him is evidence how bad an organization the Lions truly are (were?).
Whoop there it is! :whoo:...................................:frusty:

Emmitt admitted Barry was superior on Quite Frankly.

Case Closed.

I think Bobby Ross sucked a lot of the life out of Barry.
Barry liked Wayneo and Scott Mitchell...
One of his "pile cleaners" was gone too. [the left tackle]
Barry was a little too sensitive about player movement.

Didn't Emmit play for the Cowboys? How can any of them be any good?

Maybe I don't understand the question.

Emmitt admitted Barry was superior on Quite Frankly.

Case Closed.

Barry also admits that Jim Brown was better... which is just him being modest.

Barry also admits that Jim Brown was better... which is just him being modest.

You have a point.

Okay, let the debate continue. :P

Brown being better may have been true. But that was garbage his dad put in his head.

I've read other message boards and they all say the same thing:

"my word, if anyone says emmit is better than Barry I nominate them for expulsion, from life! no explanation necessary"

thurman against emmit is a better comparison. thurman (when he remembers his helmet)

Smith doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same class as Barry Sanders. My grandma could have rushed for over a 1000 yards per season with the offensive lines that Smith had with him.

the only people who think emmit is better than barry are cowboy fans, and theres enough of these losers around that this actually seems like an argument until you put it up on this message board. barry > all!

Alright, I see you all have your opinions.

You've made some good points.

But I'll guaruntee that those pionts can be countered! That's what a debate is all about.

Someone said it would be a waste to come to a Cowboys board to debate but I say you will be given a fair shake!

BTW, the O-line excuse is a lil weak. Heard it a million times so there is a great counter to it. You may have to do better Friday if you decide to come over.

I will also guaruntee that respect will be shown. Even though it is a Cowboys board, we want you to come back and feel welcomed. We still welcome all from other teams to come over & discuss football.

One more thing I'd like to add.

With all due respect, it's fairly easy to sit here a pat eachother on the back saying "barry's the greatest!"

That is why I am turning this friendly invite into the "gauntlet" being thrown down!:nod:

Now who is willing to pick it up & show up on friday?

Lets compare Emmitt's and Barry's career numbers. While I'm at it, I'll also calculate Emmitt's numbers after 10 seasons, the same # of seasons Barry played, to be totally fair.

Since Barry retired on top of his game, and Emmitt doesn't know when enough is enough, comparing career stats alone would scew the results towards Barry, since Emmitt is a shell of the player he was in his prime (which, by the way, was when Barry left the game).

Here goes:

Emmitt Smith - 15 seasons, 226 games, avg 15.06 games/season
Barry Sanders - 10 seasons, 153 games, avg 15.3 games/season
Emmitt after 10 seasons, 155 games, avg 15.5 games/season
Fact: Emmitt played 3 more games than Barry over the first 10 seasons of their careers

Emmitt Smith - Rushes 4409 career, avg 294 per season
Barry Sanders - Rushes 3062 career, avg 306 per season
Emmitt after 10 - Rushes 3243 total, avg 324.3 per season
Fact: Emmitt had 1347 more career rushes and 181 more after 10 seasons

Emmitt Smith - Rushing Yards 18355 career, avg 1223.66 per season
Barry Sanders - Rushing Yards 15269 career, avg 1526.9 per season
Emmitt after 10 - Rushing Yards 13963 total, avg 1396.3 per season
Fact: Barry had 1306 MORE rushing yards and avg 130.6 MORE yards per season than Emmitt over 10 years. This despite playing in 3 less games and rushing 181 FEWER times than Emmitt.

Emmitt Smith - 4.2 yds per carry, career rushing average
Barry Sanders - 5.0 yds per carry, career rushing average
Emmitt after 10 - 4.3 yds per carry, first 10 seasons average
Fact: Barry averaged .7 MORE yds per carry than Emmitt after 10 seasons, .8 MORE over careers. This despite Barry also having the most NEGATIVE rushing yards than ANY back in NFL history.

Emmitt Smith - 81.2 avg rush yds/game for career
Barry Sanders - 99.8 avg rush yds/game for career
Emmitt after 10 - 90.3 avg rush yds/game first 10 seasons
Fact: Barry averaged 9.5 MORE yds/game than Emmitt over their first 10 seasons

Emmitt Smith - 164 rushing TDs career, 10.93 avg per season
Barry Sanders - 99 rushing TDs career, 9.9 avg per season
Emmitt after 10 - 136 rushing TDs after 10, 13.6 avg per season
Fact: Emmitt averaged more TDs than Barry. Yeah, he finally won a matchup! Oh yeah, that's right. Barry was also taken out on goal line situations. How many more TD's would he have had if he had been in on those plays? Still, gotta give this one to Emmitt, since speculation doesn't count.

Since we're debating the best RB, I won't go into the receiving stats of each player, although, Barry had a better yds/game, and TD/season average than Emmitt as well.

Conclusion: Barry kicks Emmitts rear in every category except for TD's. I'm not saying Emmitt isn't a Hall of Fame RB, I'm just saying Barry was better.

Jammertme, enough said, debate over thanks for the work on this.

Oh, and before your bring up the fact that Emmitt is the all time rushing leader - which is true - lets take a quick look at those numbers.

Emmitt didn't pass Barry's career rushing yards mark until he was into his 12th season. He didn't pass Walter Payton's rushing record until he was 539 yards into his 13th season (more than half his rushing total for that year by the way).

Had Barry played just ONE more year, he was on pace to break Walter Payton's all time rushing record BEFORE his 11th season was over. Almost A SEASON AND A HALF sooner than Emmitt Smith did.

Emmit Smith only won MVP was because two guys named Marvcus Patton & Thurman Thomas were payed off by the commisioner of the NFL :)

and another quote:
"Sometimes it's better to be an excellent player on a poor team. Or, maybe in Emmitt's case, an above average player on an excellent team"

Another point, Emmit had a problem of fumbling the ball

One of the most respected minds in the history of the NFL has said that Barry is the greatest running back of all time.

And if Wayne Fontes says it...it must be true. The Big Buck knows what he's talking about.

That is a strong post Jamm.
True, Barry wasn't a fumbler.
How many carries for a loss did Emmitt have?

Why hasn't the NFL produced a Barry Sanders highlight video? I'd buy it (and several more for gifts) if I could find one.

Barry't top two touchdowns of his career:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4loe1jYgz0&search=Touchdown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnBUtW-YHYo&search=barry%20sanders

All defenders could of done was this: :frusty:

I bet one involved the Bears. Or both.

Man, Barry was good.

Screw Emmit.

And I'm sorry, I can't bring myself to register on a Dallas Cowboys Forum. My wife would slap me, and she doesn't even watch much football. That'd be like asking me to register on a LA Lakers forum. Just can't do it.

Can't buy a Pepsi. Can't drink a Budweiser. Can't cheer for Kobe. Can't cheer for Emmit. Can't cheer for Gretzky. Can't cheer for Jordan. Can't respect G W Bush.

It's just the way it is.

Well you all bring up some good points!

Problem is that there's no one here to dispute them so it makes it pretty easy to sit here and pat eachother on the back!:hug:

So I once again would love to see some if not all of you tonight at 7pm EST at the DCFU.:fingerscr

Should be a good time!:welcome:

dakid, I wish you contributed to the threads here with the same passion you've displayed to get folks over to DCFU. :eyebrows:

dakid, I wish you contributed to the threads here with the same passion you've displayed to get folks over to DCFU. :eyebrows:Touche!

The DCFU is my baby. I was there when it first came to be.

I do love the pistons but don't have the same knowledge you all have due to my location. (which is why I come here!:nod: )

I just see a lot of intelligent fans here who I would like to see in my neck of the woods during football season for some intelligent football discussion!:thumb:

If the DCFU is down, I apologize.

I'm trying to login there myself but keep getting a "timed out" page.:frusty:

I'm trying to get a hold of a mod right now.

Great vids bezeach, here's another great one that shows Barry's many abilities. The best juke move in the history of the game, lightning quick feet, can hit the extra gear in the open field, but it also shows Barry bouncing off tacklers left and right AND bowling guys OVER.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiXqaR0qOaw&mode=related&search=barry%20sanders

Barry not a complete back? I beg to differ. He could beat you with power, with quickness, with misdirection/change of direction, he was a solid (and underrated) blocker, and was absolutely DEADLY in the open field as a receiver.

If the DCFU is down, I apologize.

I'm trying to login there myself but keep getting a "timed out" page.:frusty:

I'm trying to get a hold of a mod right now.

What happened? You get too many Barry votes and your Dallas server crashed?
:laugh:

Just playin'. You seem like a decent guy (other than the Cowboy thing). Hope you get everything up and running again. :thumb:

Looks like DCFU's host is having power problems...

We are currently experiencing power problems with some servers. We're working with our local municipality to restore normal oprations as quickly as we can.

The site is back up and running...

Come on over. There have already been some posts supporting Barry and Emmit.

Unfortunately, there are not enough barry supporters. So please come over to show your support.:)

On another note, allow me to make a few points here before heading back.

I keep hearing how barry had no line and how how some of yall's grandmother could run behind the dallas O-line.

Well I'm not gonna pretend to know any of your grandparents but I am willing to bet that your grandmother can not run the ball near as well as Derrick Lassic, Sherman Williams, Coleman, Chris Warren, or Troy Hambrick. (OK, I might have to say your garandmother ran better than hambone :laugh: )

My point is that Dallas never got the job done with any of these guys. So you really can't give all the credit to the Dallas O-line.

You say Barry NEVER had a line? Well in'95, the Lions had the top passing offense in the NFL and the #1 ranked total offense in the NFL, you don't think that was all Barry do you?....Mitchell had a pro bowl type of year along with Herman Moore, who at the time was one of the top 5 WRs in the NFL, with Brett Perriman on the other side at WR and some good slot WRs, the Lions had an excellent all around offense in the Fontes years. (Thanx to Deputy for this info)

After all this are you trying to say that Detroit had no line? In order to have a #1 rated offense it has to satrt in the trenches. Anyone will tell you that's where a good offense starts.

Another point.... Didn't the lions run a run n shoot offense? Doesn't this spread Defenses so that Barry didn't have as many 8 man fronts to worry about? Just something to chew on.

If you'd like to dispute any of this, the invitation is still open at he DCFU (http://www.dallascowboysfansunited.com)!

Come on over!

My grandma and GREAT GRANDMOTHER could of ran through the Dallas line, and they are both pretty old! :nod:

You still haven't convinced me to go and register on a Dallas forum, but just to counter a couple of your points.

True, the Lions did have one season in which they had the best offence. One out of 10 ain't bad I guess. But as for the other years... not so much.

As for the Lions having a run n shoot offense which opened up the D for Barry. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Try the other way around.

Barry was THE number one guy on ANY team that teams ALWAYS talked about having to stop. It was always about stopping Barry. He received more attention than any single running back in history. Teams practiced specifically to stop Barry. They were trained to stay at home and that a play is never over until the whistle blows, because eventually, Barry will make his way back towards you.

Barry is the reason the passing game was so good that year, not the other way around. Everyone was so worried about containing Barry, that all Mitchell had to do was throw it up and it was a big gain. Heck, Jeff Moon Ball Garcia could have ran that offence.

Again, I'm not saying Emmitt isn't an elite back. I'm just saying that Barry is THE elite back.

The thread should now be titled: "Is there anybody out there who would take Emmitt over Berry?

If this were a poll it would be about 95% Barry and 5% Emmitt. Can this even be classified as an argument?

Com'mon Jamm, Barry didn't run with power.
You have to have your feet on the ground to run with power.
And if he ran with power why so many plays for a loss?

The thread should now be titled: "Is there anybody out there who would take Emmitt over Berry?

If this were a poll it would be about 95% Barry and 5% Emmitt. Can this even be classified as an argument?Well Duh!:doh:

We're on a Detroit board!:laugh: :laugh:

Com'mon Jamm, Barry didn't run with power.
You have to have your feet on the ground to run with power.
And if he ran with power why so many plays for a loss?

I said he could beat you with power, but he wasn't really a power back, nor was he known for his power.

But watch some of those vids on YouTube. Barry was running OVER guys. He was the one initiating the contact, and the defender would go flying. Or the one where he carries a defender for about 10 yards right into the end zone.

I'm not talking being elusive or slippery - which he was, and was much more a part of his game. I'm talking about power. Barry had extremely powerful legs, and calves (otherwise they'd snap the way he changed direction on a dime), a low centre of gravity with a powerful upper body.

There were a couple of clips where 2 or 3 players would be tackling him and Barry would be the only one left standing.

Common TheeFTD, you can't blame Barry's losses on not being powerful enough. There were 2 reasons for Barry's negative yards.

1. The Lions offense was SO predictable. It was Barry or Bust. EVERY team knew that Barry was their bread and butter and EVERY team was focusing on stoppinghim.

2. Barry never gave up on a play. He would never just go down. Barry would fight you to the very end. Sometimes that resulted in him losing extra yards when any other back would have given up on the play. But for every play he lost extra yards on, there were about 5 that he made something out of nothing. When it looked like he was going to go down for a loss and he'd turn it into a 60 yard TD run. Like the clip against Buffalo, when there were about 5 Bills in the backfield, 3 of them holding onto Barry, but he still managed to get positive yards out of the play.

[/quote]You still haven't convinced me to go and register on a Dallas forum, but just to counter a couple of your points.

True, the Lions did have one season in which they had the best offence. One out of 10 ain't bad I guess. But as for the other years... not so much.[/quote]
1991 NFC Divisional Playoff1/5/1992Dallas6 DETROIT381991 NFC Championship1/12/1992DETROIT10 Washington411993 NFC First-Round Playoff1/8/1994Green Bay28 DETROIT241994 NFC First-Round Playoff12/31/1994DETROIT12 Green Bay161995 NFC First-Round Playoff12/30/1995DETROIT37 Philadelphia581997 NFC First-Round Playoff12/28/1997DETROIT10 Tampa Bay20

I believe this is more than just 1 outta ten years. You're saying that this is all barry? He had to have someone around him to make the playoffs.

[/quote]As for the Lions having a run n shoot offense which opened up the D for Barry. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Try the other way around.

Barry was THE number one guy on ANY team that teams ALWAYS talked about having to stop. It was always about stopping Barry. He received more attention than any single running back in history. Teams practiced specifically to stop Barry. They were trained to stay at home and that a play is never over until the whistle blows, because eventually, Barry will make his way back towards you.

Barry is the reason the passing game was so good that year, not the other way around. Everyone was so worried about containing Barry, that all Mitchell had to do was throw it up and it was a big gain. Heck, Jeff Moon Ball Garcia could have ran that offence.[/quote]You still haven't anwered my question about who faced more 8 man fronts.

[/quote]Again, I'm not saying Emmitt isn't an elite back. I'm just saying that Barry is THE elite back.[/quote]

I'm not saying Barry isn't elite either but Emmit was more complete.

Sorry for the mixup above. This should be a lil more ledgible.LOL

You still haven't convinced me to go and register on a Dallas forum, but just to counter a couple of your points.

True, the Lions did have one season in which they had the best offence. One out of 10 ain't bad I guess. But as for the other years... not so much.
1991 NFC Divisional Playoff1/5/1992Dallas6 DETROIT38
1991 NFC Championship1/12/1992DETROIT10 Washington41
1993 NFC First-Round Playoff1/8/1994Green Bay28 DETROIT24
1994 NFC First-Round Playoff12/31/1994DETROIT12 Green Bay16
1995 NFC First-Round Playoff12/30/1995DETROIT37 Philadelphia58
1997 NFC First-Round Playoff12/28/1997DETROIT10 Tampa Bay20

I believe this is more than just 1 outta ten years. You're saying that this is all barry? He had to have someone around him to make the playoffs.

As for the Lions having a run n shoot offense which opened up the D for Barry. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Try the other way around.

Barry was THE number one guy on ANY team that teams ALWAYS talked about having to stop. It was always about stopping Barry. He received more attention than any single running back in history. Teams practiced specifically to stop Barry. They were trained to stay at home and that a play is never over until the whistle blows, because eventually, Barry will make his way back towards you.

Barry is the reason the passing game was so good that year, not the other way around. Everyone was so worried about containing Barry, that all Mitchell had to do was throw it up and it was a big gain. Heck, Jeff Moon Ball Garcia could have ran that offence.You still haven't anwered my question about who faced more 8 man fronts.

Again, I'm not saying Emmitt isn't an elite back. I'm just saying that Barry is THE elite back.

I'm not saying Barry isn't elite either but Emmit was more complete.

1. The Lions offense was SO predictable. It was Barry or Bust. EVERY team knew that Barry was their bread and butter and EVERY team was focusing on stopping him.

2. Barry never gave up on a play.
There is something to the predictable O thing, that's why Philly intercepted us so bad that playoff game. But the years we ran the R&S teams were baffled. But instead of running up the score when we had them on the ropes Wayneo would go conservative.:frusty:
If Barry caught you off balance which he usually did, then he could power for more yards.
What about the seasons he was being caught from behind?

You still haven't anwered my question about who faced more 8 man fronts.

Thats easy, Barry all the way. Like I said, teams knew that Barry was the Lions' bread and butter. Everyone that played the Lions had one goal - stop Barry.

Thats easy, Barry all the way. Like I said, teams knew that Barry was the Lions' bread and butter. Everyone that played the Lions had one goal - stop Barry.I don't recall Barry facing as many 8man fronts as Emmit.

I don't recall Barry facing as many 8man fronts as Emmit.

Not surprising, since you're a Cowboys fan. :P