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Pistons vs Bulls
December 16th, 2005 ~ 8:00pm
The Palace of Auburn Hills, Auburn Hills, MI
TV: Local Only
Radio: WDFN

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vs
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Your comments?
~~~

Reserved

on a side note, i saw Othella Harrington at Sommerset Mall today :)

his name was on the tip of my tongue until i came home and looked him up :P

on a side note, i saw Othella Harrington at Sommerset Mall today :)

his name was on the tip of my tongue until i came home and looked him up :P but that was funny!!!

How will the Bulls react after the talk about being dissed by Sheed laughing during the last game?

Ben Gordon throwing some elbows? Scottie Skiles grabbing onto Sheed's leg like Jeff Van Gundy?

Nocioni is their enforcer, so he'll have to do something about it. He was the one being laughed at anyway. I'm expecting the Bulls to play very hard tonight.

Chandler is banged up again (as predicted) this year... without him being healthy the Pistons should have their way inside.... keep dumping it down low until you get Sweetney in foul trouble.

Yes, I noticed that the Bulls are going with Deng, Nocioni, and Sweetney up front. Pretty small.

If you're the Bulls, the risk of sending a "message" to Sheed is that you might motivate him into being the Hall of Fame force he normally isn't.

Pride, or your best shot at winning? Tough choice.

i'd go for pride i would never back down like that.

i'd go for pride i would never back down like that.
LOL. You're a young buck, no doubt. Old guys like me go for the wins. You'll see it my way one day when those hormones of yours slow down a bit. ;)

Well, let me elaborate on that last post.
If you do it right...you get both. Win the right way and you also get the pride.

Old joke:

2 bulls (ironically) on a hill. One young & one old. They see a bunch of young cows at the bottom of the hill.

Young Bull: Hey, why don't we run down there and have sex with one of them?

Old Bull: Why don't we just WALK instead and have the strength left to have sex with ALL of them?

Hey monkeys!

Game Chat is open. Click the graphic at the top of the forums for information.

PIstons looking good so far

Detroit: 43
Chicago:30

1st half:

Bad coaching there to end the half. Remember the goal. Get thru these four games in five nights. The bench was doing fine out there. Leave them in. The game is going to be won or lost in the 2nd half almost all the time. Will they win this one? Maybe not. If we get in trouble, guarantee Flip will make the same mistake as last game, bringing his starters back in too quickly to end the game. After not giving them enough rest in the first half. This is not just the beginning of a 4 game in five night stretch. It is also the 3rd game in 4 nights. Rest the starters Flip.

Delfino came into the game before Evans. And the bench looked darn good with Arroyo, Delfino, and Dyess in there. Arroyo did excellent. And that time he dribbled the ball for a while, and drove in. He drew the foul, a pretty obvious one really. Great they got the call right. That kind of thing is excellent. A point guard must make the other team always respect his threat to score. Fantastic game by Arroyo so far. I especially liked his drive in and pass to a cutting Dyess for a dunk. His assists to Dyess for outside shots have been slick too. Hope Dyess gets used to those nice open shots. They are good to have for most players. Other than him and Vinnie, I can't recall too many players who practically had to have contact to score.

Between Arroyo and Delfino, that ball goes inside like clockwork. I just wish Dyess caught that one fine pass by Delfino there. Dyess has been hitting his outside shots in this game, and taking some shots a bit beyond his usual stuff. Getting a bit more aggressive on offense basically.

As usual, Rip, CB, Tay, and Sheed are all doing some scoring. Ben did some scoring on Nocioni. Looked pretty good. We should win this one. We can score on them. We can defend them well. But will we have the energy to keep them off the boards. Homecourt ought to help in the energy department. Lets see and GO PISTONS!!!!!

Our starters are fine. The energy is there, the consistency, the balance.

Arroyo and Dice are great off the bench. Delfino had an off-night shooting, but looked aggressive and looking to drive. The kid has natural handles, and I would like to see him more. Glad he got in early, before Evans.

Evans looked okay too, but inside, he's too strong, almost all the time. He needs that feather touch inside.

Darko got his minutes in the garbage quarter. The kid sucks.

JMax got an appearence, and looked great.

The starters extended the lead a bit in the 3rd. Mostly Sheed heating it up, living up to his expectations set in Chicago. Again, Sheed in the post was simply unstoppable by any Chicago player.

The bench came in early in the 3rd. Delfino again in before Evans. And again, we took off and put it away. Delfino immediately got inside and kicked out to CB for a triple. Basically, this is flat out more logical. Bring in your good ball handlers first. Note, Evans scored a lot. In garbage time. Good to see him work on his midrange shot. His adventures in ball handling looked real bad though. He did have a good assist though off simply being in the post and passing it up top, and he did get to the right spot on that fast break for a short jumper. The best thing Evans did was hustle after that turn and force them to foul him. That was one very good athletic play to be able to pick that ball up and accelerate down the court so well. And he got some rebounds.

OK. I hope you guys saw that. Maxiell's hard stepback. I saw that thing go in repeatedly in the summer league. It was no fluke that shot went in. That is a plain flat out nasty stepback. Stepping back full force so no way the defender can follow you, and shooting with a good solid jump.

It worked out real well. The starters ended up playing very little. Lots of gas for tomorro night.

Now Darko. A slow start. But in the end, we pretty much held even with all of our subs out there against some rather experienced Chicago players. Darko's long shot just barely rimmed out. He got a couple of offensive rebounds but a travel spoiled one. His defensive rebounding was suspect. I still say that is more a matter of getting game timing. He needs to play for that to happen. Darko showed more ball handling ability vs. a guy like Evans in the very short time he got tonight comparitively. Darko on one play dribbled in toward the basket and hit Evans cutting to the basket. If only Evans could do something like that he would be a good rotation player.

Maxiell got a great block on Chandler that the refs called a foul. Not a foul and the replay shows Maxiell got all ball.

I kind of see a pattern with Tay trying to work on his range. Most nights, Tay is not solid out there long range. But he hits a good bunch of shorter shots. Keep working Tay. Thats one thing playing under Brown did to Tay negatively. I think Tay is still thinking Brown is watching and worrying if he might miss the shot.-Had to put a dig in against Brown on a night when another cellar dweller beat on his team bad.

Tay had another spectacular dunk, off a pass from Rip on a fast break. Pretty ordinary by Tay's standards, but I bet it thrilled a lot of people at the Palace. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Did Sheed really start the "Fire MM" chant like ESPN said?

I'm watching the Wizards/Laker game.

Bill Walton...announcing that the Wizards beat the Pistons on home court...and down-playing LUKE's shoddy play tonight while making excuses for him.

BW is the lowest form of NBA color-commentator life. :P

Near perfect game. Solid all around. Defense, scoring, rebounding. bench.

Had a decent edge on the offensive glass going into extended garbage time. 2nd game in a row on the boards.

Didn't watch the game, so could someone give an unbiased opinion why Darko sucked, and JMax was great when they had the same stats:
Darko 1-3, 2 boards
Jmax 1-4, 1 board

Didn't watch the game, so could someone give an unbiased opinion why Darko sucked, and JMax was great when they had the same stats:
Darko 1-3, 2 boards
Jmax 1-4, 1 board

Remember, it is the biased guys that are saying Darko did so terribly in his garbage time. How bad can you be said to be doing in garbage time when the game is not on the line. Now, did Darko do anything spectacular? No. Anything really bad? No. Did anyone manage to shoot a shot over him? No. On that rebound attempt he did not get. Darko went up a couple times for it. So he did not get it. Where was the rest of our team while he was keeping the ball alive? Its pretty simple why nobody can point out anything in particular Darko did so bad. Nothing to point out.

Some people seem to think they can tell by looking at Darko that he is unmotivated. Really. Do they really know Darko that well?

Darko did just fine in this game. He is a very quick player for getting to plays, and he comes with great height and reach. The Pistons went to Darko in the post, oh, let me count the times. Zero. They let him shoot it once. Gee, I am sure anyone can make themselves look great in garbage time not shooting the ball. I doubt it.

The only question I got is when the heck is Flip going to start playing Darko more. No need for the score to go up 30 for that to happen.

Dyce - as good as advertised. Shoots and rebounds.

Arroyo - a clone of Chucky Atkins. He thinks he's better than he is. Only difference from Chucky is Arroyo can't shoot the three, but he can penetrate. Dribbles way too much and doesn't get the offense going until the shot clock is way down.

Delfino - In the wrong league. Would be an all-star in the CBA or NBDL but just a second line player in the NBA. A step slow on D, a little off on his shot, looks to shoot first, run the play second. Just a bit too slow in the head to keep up with the game.

Evans - A wreck waiting to happen. Wants to shoot first, pass last. Tries to drive and then gets stuffed by the bigs. Not much of a team player.

Darko - Looks like a seventh-grader playing with the senior high. A softer version of Zelly! Doesn't (can't?) jump. Absolutely no agressiveness on the boards - defensive or offenseive. In love with the 20ft. jump shot. He's way too slow in the head to keep up with the NBA.
His skill set stops at the shoulders.

Maxiel - Has some skill, but seems a little heavy-footed. Probably can't cover any decent SF. The opposite of Darko in that he loves to attack the boards. Needs more experience.

People do forget that Delfino was THE bench besides Dice last year, before his injury. He was on a great pace for development as a rookie before his injury, and now he's shown here and there this season that he has that potential still.

Darko just sucks, I'm sorry. I'm all for him becoming a great player, but until he makes the best of his limited minutes, he's in my doghouse. Preseason he looked rejuvenated, early season he looked decent, but ever since the Knicks game and he stunk up his PT, I understand where Flip stands and how he has to regain that PT in practice or garbage time.

Unlike under LB, I trust Flip with the development of Darko. If he's getting 2nd quarter minutes like he used to in the earlier games, he's obviously on pace on doing something right. Right now, he's obviously not.

JMax on the other hand was great to see, but he does have 5 big men ahead of him including my favorite, Darko.

are you being serious woody? some of those comments are pretty bunk...arroyo's been solid this year and had one of his best games as a piston tonight. you say delfino looks to shoot first, yet he had 5 assists tonight. you say evans isn't a team player when he hustles harder than anyone, and managed 2 steals, 4 boards, and 13 points in only 18 minutes.

was at the game tonight, couldn't tell about the sheed and fire millen chants, but the chants were there throughout. the game was basically a joke...the pistons could have done this to utah if they felt like it...the bulls are just terrible. hell arroyo blocked sweetney's shot in the post (although didn't get credit). unfortunately i missed the exchange with the double technicals. the crowd was more into it than usual.

not much to say about the game...it was domination. the pistons have 3 of the top what, 20 in the league when it comes to 3-pt %, sheed is a beast, ben showed some post moves, arroyo had one of his best games, delfino is showing he can play significant minutes, mcdyess is money, and so on.

"Didn't watch the game, so could someone give an unbiased opinion why Darko sucked, and JMax was great when they had the same stats:
Darko 1-3, 2 boards Jmax 1-4, 1 board"


because the difference is clear. darko looks like the darko from last year far more often than the darko we saw in preseason. it looks like he's upset he doesn't get minutes, so he just hopes to get the ball on the outside and just jacks up shots. maxiel on the other hand goes for rebounds, is quicker, more aggressive, and has a better post game. on one of the possessions he was at the 3 pt. line and made a pass down low, and the guy put up a quick shot...next thing i know maxiel is flying toward the basket and gets underneath it in time to set up for the rebound. that shows something.

The next time I hear someone talk about JMax being quicker than Darko, I'm going to scream. Of course, he's quicker, he's 7 inches shorter, get that 7 freaking inches shorter. Jmax is shorter than Tay, he's the same height as Rip and Delfino. Yes he's a bruser, but he is not a big, at best, an undersized PF. Remember Corliss? Well Jmax is shorter than him.

Not that I dont think he'll be good some day, but he doesnt play the same freakin position as Darko, no more than Okur and Corliss played the same position.

The next time I hear someone talk about JMax being quicker than Darko, I'm going to scream. Of course, he's quicker, he's 7 inches shorter, get that 7 freaking inches shorter. Jmax is shorter than Tay, he's the same height as Rip and Delfino. Yes he's a bruser, but he is not a big, at best, an undersized PF. Remember Corliss? Well Jmax is shorter than him.

Not that I dont think he'll be good some day, but he doesnt play the same freakin position as Darko, no more than Okur and Corliss played the same position.

No...he doesn't play the same position as Darko. Nor will he make 1/4 of Darko bucks. But he plays with multiple times the effort Darko has put out.

Time to fold the Darko hand. Hopefully, Darko will go down in history as JD's biggest boner ever. Thankfully for JD, it will be camouflaged by at least two finals, and one championship.

Indeed, because who knows? If we had picked Dwade or Melo or Bosh, we might have missed that championship.

In that scenario, I'm GLAD Joe picked Darko.

And I'm overly optimistic that he still will be serviceable. Just can't give a timetable when.

Anyway, I completely disagree with Woody's assessment of the bench. Dice has only started to hit his shots. He sucked in the first, like, 15 games. Arroyo is great as a backup point for us this season, that spotty defense and overdribbling sometimes still shows but he has been well, better than Chucky Atkins in the offense. Chucky did nothing, though I cheered him on here, but shoot three's.

Evans is athletic and does not have the handles but he gives hustle and bounce that's why he is getting time. Delfino is a guy I'd like to see more though. JMax is another energy guy out there and Darko well is Darko.

:ohwell:

No...he doesn't play the same position as Darko. Nor will he make 1/4 of Darko bucks. But he plays with multiple times the effort Darko has put out.

Time to fold the Darko hand. Hopefully, Darko will go down in history as JD's biggest boner ever. Thankfully for JD, it will be camouflaged by at least two finals, and one championship.
To an extent, who you can guard defines your position. In the summer league, Darko did so so guarding Kamen. Not so great at first, but well at the end. Maxiell on the other hand dominated Kamen very badly on both ends of the floor. Kamen could neither hope to stop Maxiell, nor hope to score against him. Remember this, Ben is just one inch taller than Maxiell. With all that said, Maxiell still is not 7-2. Darko is. There is a huge height difference between the two players.

Since this is the NBA, height happens to matter. Even though you are wrong about the two players not competing for minutes at the same position, you are still right in a way. When it comes to beating Miami, Darko can help on Shaq. Maxiell, no. Way too short. Since winning championships is the goal, not looking great in garbage time, we still need Darko. And Flip needs to play the heck out of him. I will rephrase that. We Piston fans need for Flip to play the heck out of Darko, cause we surely are hungry for another 'Ship round here.

Indeed, because who knows? If we had picked Dwade or Melo or Bosh, we might have missed that championship.

In that scenario, I'm GLAD Joe picked Darko.

And I'm overly optimistic that he still will be serviceable. Just can't give a timetable when.



Exactly what impact did Darko have on the championship? Do you really think drafting Wade, Melo, Bosh, or anyone else may have prevented that title?

I'm getting really, REALLY tired of people making ridiculous excuses to attempt to justify Darko's presence within the Piston organization...past, present and future.

I wish Darko the best. I hope he one day has a double-double...against the Pistons...in a losing cause. In that...I think he would take satisfaction.

i am freakin tired of darko period any future darko posts/threads need to be:lock1: and regular posts need to go back to topic(i forgot there was a smiley for that) when darko gets brought up

To an extent, who you can guard defines your position. In the summer league, Darko did so so guarding Kamen. Not so great at first, but well at the end. Maxiell on the other hand dominated Kamen very badly on both ends of the floor. Kamen could neither hope to stop Maxiell, nor hope to score against him. Remember this, Ben is just one inch taller than Maxiell. With all that said, Maxiell still is not 7-2. Darko is. There is a huge height difference between the two players.

For some reason, I'm not sure I'm getting your point. What I'm hearing you say is that 6-7 PF Jmax should be played against 7-0 C Kaman, but that he can't do it as well as Darko, except that Jmax outplayed Kaman in the summer league in a way that Darko could not. Did I get that right? Oh...and Darko is 7-2, right?



Since this is the NBA, height happens to matter. Even though you are wrong about the two players not competing for minutes at the same position, you are still right in a way. When it comes to beating Miami, Darko can help on Shaq. Maxiell, no. Way too short. Since winning championships is the goal, not looking great in garbage time, we still need Darko. And Flip needs to play the heck out of him. I will rephrase that. We Piston fans need for Flip to play the heck out of Darko, cause we surely are hungry for another 'Ship round here.

I'm sorry...you lost me again.

Darko on Shaq is food for the Sports Center highlight reel...and I don't mean that in a good way. Dice & DD are our Shaq barricade after Ben & Sheed...not Darko, not Jmax.

???

I must be slow...I'm just not getting your gist.

By/if the time comes that Darko could handle Shaq...Shaq will be retired.

From the Chicago Sun Times

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-bull17.html

He looked bad out there. No concept at all of getting good rebounding position. He is so concerned with blocking shots that he does not see anything else. I do not expect anything from Darko anymore.

Thing is Darko is taking a spot that someone like Glyndauskas ( greek center) could have had. Glyn would not have exactly been an all-star either but at least he would be giving it 110% everytime out there.

Darko did tip in a rebound in traffic. The sad thing is how unusual that has become. Even sadder: He's again tossing up shots without seeming to care if they go in.

Exactly what impact did Darko have on the championship? Do you really think drafting Wade, Melo, Bosh, or anyone else may have prevented that title?

I'm getting really, REALLY tired of people making ridiculous excuses to attempt to justify Darko's presence within the Piston organization...past, present and future.

I'm not making excuses for Darko. And I'm as dissatisfied with his performance so far. But, I'm glad Joe drafted Darko, not because he contributed something, but because he didn't do anything to deter that championship drive.

Nobody can say for certain that had we drafted Bosh, Melo, Wade or anybody else that we would have still won that year, because it didn't happen. Darko happened. We won.

Sure they are far off from where Darko is right now and are great great players, but the state of the Pistons today have no need for them. I'm saying I'd like someone to just sit on the bench, not do anything to disrupt the team, get whatever work in during practice, not sulk around when put in garbage time (which I'm still hoping he'd do), and that is Darko.

It's kinda weird, contributing while not contributing really. Twisted way of thinking but hey, it's one way of looking at it. :laugh:

Look at the stats, everyone seems so happy with JMax and so upset with Darko, yet Darko has the better stats in similar types of pt.

JMax may be running around more, but the result is the same, not counting shots. Which Jmax seems to be taking a little too much, and Darko at the 5, isn't going to get set plays in Flip's offense. (Check out Ben and Davis' shots per game)

Darko has more boards, more steals, more blocks, and less fouls, I guess he's just not as motivated as Jmax.

Darko has more boards, more steals, more blocks, and less fouls
And more minutes....

I guess he's just not as motivated as Jmax.
That is the understatement of the Millenium.

Remember, it is the biased guys that are saying Darko did so terribly in his garbage time.
And you don't have a bias?

On that rebound attempt he did not get. Darko went up a couple times for it. So he did not get it. Where was the rest of our team while he was keeping the ball alive?
What about the rebound where he sealed his man from the rim, had perfect position and didnt even raise his hands or jump as the ball sailed over his head?

Its pretty simple why nobody can point out anything in particular Darko did so bad. Nothing to point out.
That is a big part of the problem. Jesus Basketball is a youthful and healthy 7' european legend, making approx. $5 million a year (more than Arroyo, Hunter, Evans, Davis or JMax+Acker+Johnson combined) and he's the worst +/- player on the team. He makes a negative impact on the floor.

That's always been the problem. We want to like him. He gives us a glimpse or taste every three months. For every great moment, we're rewarded with 30 or 40 ho-hum ones.

Well, like it or not, everyone has high expectations from a #2 pick that was taken over Anthony, Wade, Bosh, Kaman etc. Expectations for him will always be higher than JMax. He seems so indifferent to whether or not he is this generation's Sam Bowie. If I were him and had some pride, it would bother me a lot.

almost all the pistons had a part in that win. even though the pistons had 110 points the most anyone got was 19 (from sheed). arroyo was great, and so was maurice. he and arroyo had some great hustle plays. Delfino didn't shoot that great, but he handled the ball well gat some good assists, and rebounds. dice is getting his 50% shooting back, and he's almost always solid off the bench. J-max put up some good points, and a perfectly good block the refs called a foul on. as for darko he had a tip-in, but he has to learn that he needs to get rebounds not only blocks. he never was in position to get boards. great offensive flow 29 assists and 50% shooting from 3, and 50.6 % shooting overall. shut them down defensively to 82 made them turnover the ball (although some were unforced). beat them on the glass 46-39.

Dyce - as good as advertised. Shoots and rebounds.

Arroyo - a clone of Chucky Atkins. He thinks he's better than he is. Only difference from Chucky is Arroyo can't shoot the three, but he can penetrate. Dribbles way too much and doesn't get the offense going until the shot clock is way down.

Delfino - In the wrong league. Would be an all-star in the CBA or NBDL but just a second line player in the NBA. A step slow on D, a little off on his shot, looks to shoot first, run the play second. Just a bit too slow in the head to keep up with the game.

Evans - A wreck waiting to happen. Wants to shoot first, pass last. Tries to drive and then gets stuffed by the bigs. Not much of a team player.

Darko - Looks like a seventh-grader playing with the senior high. A softer version of Zelly! Doesn't (can't?) jump. Absolutely no agressiveness on the boards - defensive or offenseive. In love with the 20ft. jump shot. He's way too slow in the head to keep up with the NBA.
His skill set stops at the shoulders.

Maxiel - Has some skill, but seems a little heavy-footed. Probably can't cover any decent SF. The opposite of Darko in that he loves to attack the boards. Needs more experience.
I don't agree with all of it, but that's a pretty good review Woody, nice job on your second post.

Yes, though I have to take exception to the part about Delfino being slow in the head. He actually is one of our wiser ball-handlers on both the break and in half-court sets. Defensively he's a work in progress and he's still a little shy about shooting, but I like how he distributes the ball.

evans can do a lot of things for the pistons. after some time he'll learn to pass.

evans can do a lot of things for the pistons. after some time he'll learn to pass.
You know, I was one of the guys who thought Dupree should go, but Minny is using him in limited minutes to guard the best opposing player if Trenton Hassel is in foul trouble or having an off night.

Dupree doesn't have Evans' range, but he could defend better and board just as well.

I am guilty of buying into the hype that Mo was a better defender than he is. And his offensive skill set is very limited to taking the open J (which he nails at a nice clip) or putbacks. He cannot take his man off the dribble (worse than Ben) and in fact has a nasty habit of dribbling himself into trouble.

He kinda reminds me of Darvin Ham circa 2000 when he was in Milwaukee. He's got a great motor and a lot of athleticism, but it's not enough to cover up for a very limited skill set. Coincidentally, they both went to school in Texas.

Hopefully when Lindsey gets back, we can field some kind of pitbull lineup with Arroyo-Hunter-Evans-Dice-Wallace/Wallace. I'm sure Mo will thrive in an up tempo running game where the pace is less deliberate and his athleticism can be showcased.

I don't agree with all of it, but that's a pretty good review Woody, nice job on your second post.

I agree. Nice post. I don't agree with everything either, but I'll tell you this. I cannot believe how bad our bench is. I thought we were going to have a really good bench when the season began. I think our bench is horrible.

That may change with this homestand. I certainly hope so, but I'm losing faith quickly.

Bad boys: Thomas, Dumars, Laimbeer, Mahorn, Aguire

bench: Vinnie, Rodman, Salley, Edwards...omg...need I say more?

Todays bench: uhmmm Dice maybe?

No comparison

Look at San Antonio & their bench. I'm thrilled with the 17 -3 start our great starting 5 brought us. But without a bench in the playoffs...:rip:

We need a VINNIE! A Vinnie, Dice, and Hunter may be enough to get by the Spurs (not to mention a couple of teams in the East we need to beat first).

it seems that both sides of the darko debate are very biased. i think people take darko's laid back personality as being unmotivated and not interested. some people understand it some don't. darko did not play bad. people say he doesn't rebound but he got two offensive rebounds 1 on jmax's miss. yes he concentrates on blocking shots but who says that's a bad thing?? he's really good at it. when jmax jacks up shots it's motivation and drive but when darko shoots he's in love with the 20 footer.

this bull about making the most of minutes makes me angry. the game is already decided all the guys on the floor are doing are padding thier stats. nothing you do on the pistons especially in garbage time will get you more minutes. yes. jmax is working hard in garbage time right now jacking up shots. lets see how hard he works in year 3 or garbage time.

the fact is darko simply had an ok garbage time performance. nothing great nothing too bad.

I agree. Nice post. I don't agree with everything either, but I'll tell you this. I cannot believe how bad our bench is. I thought we were going to have a really good bench when the season began. I think our bench is horrible.

That may change with this homestand. I certainly hope so, but I'm losing faith quickly.

Bad boys: Thomas, Dumars, Laimbeer, Mahorn, Aguire

bench: Vinnie, Rodman, Salley, Edwards...omg...need I say more?

Todays bench: uhmmm Dice maybe?

No comparison

Look at San Antonio & their bench. I'm thrilled with the 17 -3 start our great starting 5 brought us. But without a bench in the playoffs...:rip:

We need a VINNIE! A Vinnie, Dice, and Hunter may be enough to get by the Spurs (not to mention a couple of teams in the East we need to beat first).

actually in the playoffs the minutes go down for the bench so it isn't as important. but you underestimate our bench. carlos arroyo is much better than you think the guy can score and pass. mcdyess can carry the bench if need be. lindsey can shut other teams second unit point guards down once chauncey gets the starter in foul trouble. dale davis is a vet that gave our bigs trouble last year. delfino, evans and darko our the wild cards. 1 of them needs to become a solid contributor by the end of the season i'm betting on all three being ready if need be.

our bench is not horrible. they just don't play enough to get thier game going. our bench could play with and beat bottom dweller starting units. give them some time.

when jmax jacks up shots it's motivation and drive but when darko shoots he's in love with the 20 footer.
I'm tired of this "jacking up shots" crud. He's MAKING them. It's ok to shoot when you hit a nice %. And that is what Jmax does.

Darko is in love with the 20' shot. He's wide open with room to go to the hoop and posterize someone with his sick athleticism. But he doesn't. He'll take a front of rim clanger ala Bruno Sundov.

I don't think our expectations could be any lower for this pick than they are now. All people want to see is that he is trying. That he values every opportunity. This team will win without DMC and I trust Joe to do what it takes to stay competitive in the future. It's Darko blowing his own career, just like Nikoloz Tskitishvili (the bad version of Zaza Pachulia).

That was impressive. 110 pts and the most shots taken by any1 player was 13 and that was by Tay.....which I never have a problem with.
The team made good use of the 3, inside/out and late in the shot clock while wide open, and 6 players in double figures and winning the boards.........NOW THATS DEEEEEETROIT BAS-KET-BALL!!!!!

I loved the lineup of x2,Arroyo,Delfino, & Rip........GREAT lineup, and this helps in getting Tays mins down.

I wish the bench was more productive and exciting, but realize this the primary responsibiltity of the bench on this team is to log mins and keep the starters mins down, and technically that is happening. What we need is to make sure Tay, Rip, and Ben don't get worn down come playoffs. I think that this bench will help in that. Come playoffs the bench will get cut to 7 or8, with LH, Dyess and Davis logging the major mins with LosDos, and Evans getting spot mins. Now if we keep this group together next season they may become a very potent group.

I'm tired of this "jacking up shots" crud. He's MAKING them. It's ok to shoot when you hit a nice %. And that is what Jmax does.

Darko is in love with the 20' shot. He's wide open with room to go to the hoop and posterize someone with his sick athleticism. But he doesn't. He'll take a front of rim clanger ala Bruno Sundov.

I don't think our expectations could be any lower for this pick than they are now. All people want to see is that he is trying. That he values every opportunity. This team will win without DMC and I trust Joe to do what it takes to stay competitive in the future. It's Darko blowing his own career, just like Nikoloz Tskitishvili (the bad version of Zaza Pachulia).

i call it jacking up shots because it doesn't matter if he's open or anybody else is open on the court. if jmax touches it the ball is going up towards the rim. i never said anything about him making them or not. jmax is in love with his shot there are other people on the court open and othe passes to make with his great passing ability but instead he shoots it.

darko can hit the 20 foot shot and that opens up the drives. he isn't shooting contested jump shots. he's shooting what the defense and the play call flip makes gives him.

darko is trying when appropriate. it was garbage time so he was basically out there running the time out like the other players out there. the refs weren't giving 100% once the game was decided and i don't think anybody was. if you aren't interested in padding stats garbage time isn't the best time to get minutes. i'm tired of this darko "not trying" crud. people complain all he does is try to block shots. well he's racking up the blocks. it doesn't take effort to block shots???

i call it jacking up shots because it doesn't matter if he's open or anybody else is open on the court. if jmax touches it the ball is going up towards the rim. i never said anything about him making them or not. jmax is in love with his shot there are other people on the court open and othe passes to make with his great passing ability but instead he shoots it.
Michael Jordan also had this problem.

darko can hit the 20 foot shot and that opens up the drives. he isn't shooting contested jump shots. he's shooting what the defense and the play call flip makes gives him.
http://www.82games.com/0506/05DET11A.HTM

i'm tired of this darko "not trying" crud.
I don't blame you. Even lazyberbs sees that his effort is not all there. It's tough when you can't see what most everyone else is.

I'm out on this. In 2 hours, I have exhausted my DMC posting energy. Plus the Sausage King is getting ticked off with all the DMC stuff. You can have the last word.

Great game by Ben last night. Great game by Sheed. Luol Deng scoring so easily on Tay is a little distressing. That kid is a stud.

Darko is in love with the 20' shot. He's wide open with room to go to the hoop and posterize someone with his sick athleticism. But he doesn't. He'll take a front of rim clanger ala Bruno Sundov.(the bad version of Zaza Pachulia).

Sounds a lot like Sheed's game. I'd rather have a 7 footer who can shoot the J take an open one, rather than trying to put it on the floor. And JMax does chuck up a lot of shots, and he has been a terrible rebounder on D. And where's Dale? No one seems to criticize him because he hasnt been able to step up to the plate and help reduce some of the minutes Ben and Sheed are playing.

We win a game by 20, and everyone wants to criticize Darko because he aint a Garbage time supa sta. Darko haters, think about this, how many guys on our team can cover an opposing center? 4, and you guys want to cut one of them. Stupid.

Wave, you shouldn't have put up that link, went to it, compared Jmax's to Darko's, guess what, statistically speaking, DMC is much more efficient than JMax. A couple of things that stood out:

Shot selection:
Jmax, 63 % of his shots are jumpers, of which he was assisted on 25% of them.
Darko, 55% of his shots are jumpers, of which he was assisted on 100% of them.
Sounds like Darko is taking open J's off the pass, while JMax is dribbling around looking for a shot.

Jmax, 44% inside, Darko 45%, sounds like a tie. JMax does have a better shooting percentage.

Shot clock:
Jmax shoots 51% of his shots with more than 15 seconds left on the clock, doesnt look like he's making that extra pass for the open guy. And when you consider he shoots more shots per minute than any other Piston, I'd say he's jacking up shots.
Darko shoots 70% of his shots with less 16 seconds on the clock, sounds like he's the last option.

Assists are equal

Rebounding:
Jmax is an offensive rebounding machine, crushing Darko. But on Defensive boards, its the exact opposite.
In 28 Defensive rebounding attempts, Jmax got 1.
In 89 Defensive rebounding attempts, Darko got 13, 15% to 4%.

How come no one complains about Jmax's Defensive boards. Looks like Jmax is cherry picking on D, letting other guys get the boards so he can get the breakaway. Anyone think LB would have tolerated that?

JMax isn't bad, I'm glad we have him, but he aint doing anything that Darko isn't. I think you guys misinterpretted Darko's Stash for lack of motivation, I do the same thing with Jake Plummer.

why this bench looks bad is bacuse they are not good defensively. this bench will look better when lindsey comes back. don't forget about dale davis this was the mein reason he brought him here. he will be huge down the road. i think a way this bench might be able to do good is this lineup:
PG: Arroyo: he can create shots for himself and others. anytime we need D we can always go to lindsey after he heals. for now though i'll stick with carlos.
SG: Evans: very athletic can put back shots, shoot, block, and board good for his size. if the team wants better ball handling, and passes off the bench they'll go with delfino.
SF: Dice: we know he's solid.
PF: Dale Davis: If darko is going to keep wanting to block shots the pistons will need someone there ready for boards, and more blocks if the other team gets more offensive rebounds. Dale perfectly fits this role.
c: Lets hope this kid gets better at rebounding and offensively. he will give us a great shotblocking off the bench though.

I reviewed the game. Even I did not realize how much effort Darko put into this game watching it the first time. Sure helps to have frame by frame.

Lets talk about a couple of rebounding situations Darko was in. One time, he got perfect position under the basket. But the rebound went over him. He did not go up for it. Lack of effort? Wrong. Watching a bit closer you see Darko was shoved under the basket. As the rebound came off, Darko was still flying thru the air from the shove. Not a lack of effort at all, just a missed call by the officials.

Next, that rebound Darko went up for a few times but failed to gather in. Gee, must be lack of effort. Wrong again. First of all, the rebound was not to Darko at all. There were three Chicago players that rebound was headed toward. Darko went up, used that very long arm of his to try to tip the ball toward himself. He went up a couple more times battling for that thing. Excellent effort, just no bound.

Bottom line. Darko does a lot of things very well rather effortlessly. Sorry Darko haters. He is just a very good basketball player. No lack of effort there at all.

Bad boys: Thomas, Dumars, Laimbeer, Mahorn, Aguire
bench: Vinnie, Rodman, Salley, Edwards...omg...need I say more?
Todays bench: uhmmm Dice maybe?
No comparison

everyone's bench was better back then, there were less teams in the league so the talent wasn't spread out so thin

everyone's bench was better back then, there were less teams in the league so the talent wasn't spread out so thin

Maybe, but it's not even close. Besides, look at San Antonio's bench. :nod:

Lets talk about a couple of rebounding situations Darko was in. One time, he got perfect position under the basket. But the rebound went over him. He did not go up for it. Lack of effort? Wrong. Watching a bit closer you see Darko was shoved under the basket. As the rebound came off, Darko was still flying thru the air from the shove. Not a lack of effort at all, just a missed call by the officials.


Lee, how is one in "perfect position" when the ball goes flying over one's head???? It seems like the place I would want to be is where the ball goes.

Poor Darko. Shoved by another player. They shouldn't do that to him when the incompetent official is looking the other way.

You really need to decide whether in your future you will be a basketball analyst , a referee, a coach...or comedian :D

The bench was actually very effective last night, especially in the 2nd quarter when it still mattered. Arroyo and Dyess especially played well.

'Sheed is playing his best ball as a Piston right now, IMO.

'Sheed is playing his best ball as a Piston right now, IMO.

His 3's are beautiful to watch. Kinda hard to believe his 3% (.476) is better than his 2% (.444).

And when you compare last year's 3% (.318) you can see the affect Flip's offense has had on him...and probably a big reason Ben's not getting as many touches. Based on season-to-date numbers, he's on track to attempt 33% more 3's than last year.

BTW...look where the Piston starters (except Ben) rank in 3% in the East...and don't forget to remove the top 4 based on games started.

http://tinyurl.com/8plpe

It's unreal!

Nice to see my buddies Mike James & Mo Pete not far down the list :eyebrows: