http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/BOS_421.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/at.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/DET_3079.gif
Nov. Tue 15, 7:30pm
The Palace of Auburn Hills
FSN Detroit -- WDFN-AM 1130

Boston VS. Detroit
3-3 Record 6-0
97.2 PPG 100.7
95.3 PPGA 87.7
45.5 FG% 48.6
45.4 Op FG% 44.6
42.3 Rebounds 42.8
23.2 Assists 24.3
18.5 Turnovers 12.7
10.3 Steals 8.3
6.5 Blocks 4.3


http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/ben_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/rasheed_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/tayshaun_prince.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/richard_hamilton.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/chauncey_billups.jpg
VS
http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/celtics/mark_blount.jpghttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/celtics/raef_lafrentz.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/celtics/paul_pierce.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/celtics/ricky_davis.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/celtics/delonte_west.jpg


Mark Blount
Points: 13.2
Rebounds: 3.8
Assists: 2.8
Ben Wallace
Points: 10.8
Rebounds: 12.2
Assists: 1.8

Raef LaFrentz
Points: 13.0
Rebounds: 6.0
Assists: 7.0
Rasheed Wallace
Points: 10.7
Rebounds: 6.5
Assists: 2.0

Paul Pierce
Points: 26.3
Rebounds: 8.0
Assists: 5.0
Tayshaun Prince
Points: 18.0
Rebounds: 3.2
Assists: 2.5

Ricky Davis
Points: 17.5
Rebounds: 5.3
Assists: 5.0
Richard Hamilton
Points: 22.3
Rebounds: 4.0
Assists: 2.5

Delonte West
Points: 8.5
Rebounds: 5.2
Assists: 4.3
Chauncey Billups
Points: 17.2
Rebounds: 2.7
Assists: 9.3
Injury Report
Tony Allen- G knee Out indefinitely
Marcus Banks- G foot Return around All-Star break
Lindsey Hunter- G ankle Out indefinitely

Game Preview
The Celtics are coming off a home win against the Rockets 102-82.
LaFrentz made seven 3-pointers (7-of-9) and scored 32 points. Sheed will have to stay up tight on the perimiter.

In the last meeting on Nov. 4th the Pistons pulled out a 82-81 win with .8 seconds on a shot by Rip.

Billups took almost half his shots from less than 10 feet the first time the teams met, and about 20% of his shots on the season are from close range.

Rasheed made this comment after the game "That's one of the mottos we go by: 'Winners find a way to win,' "

The game stats were close on almost all categories… Rip was the high scorer with 26 and Paul Pierce had 28

Nov 4th Box score (http://www.nba.com/games/20051104/DETBOS/boxscore.html)

Bulletin board material from Paul Pierce: ''Even Tayshaun Prince. I don't think he plays great defense. He has two of the best shot blockers in the game [Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace]. If a guy blows by you, then the shot blockers block the shot and you call that great defense."

Comments on this game?

John Hammond’s Three Keys to Success:
Get the inside scoop from Pistons Vice President of Basketball Operations John Hammond. See what the Pistons need to do to be successful against the Boston Celtics.

1. Keep Paul Pierce off the free throw line:
Celtics forward Paul Pierce is one of the best in the league at driving the lane to generate a basket. He has the ability to create his own shot or get fouled. So far this season, Pierce has been to the line an average of 11.2 times per game and is shooting 79.4% (53-67). Although he likes to take it to the hoop, he is also a very capable outside shooter. However, the Pistons want to make him beat them from beyond the arc – he has already proven he can make free throws.
2. Get to their bench - force their young guys to best us:
The Boston Celtics are a very young team. They have three rookies and four players with only one year of experience on their roster. As a result of their inexperience, the Celtics have two of their veteran starters averaging more than 40 minutes per game and two averaging more than 30. The most telling statistic of all is that Boston’s starters combine for 87.7% of the team’s points. If the Pistons are able to wear down the starters, they will force the Celtic’s bench to prove themselves. 3. Keep our winning streak alive and protect our home court:
At 6-0, the Detroit Pistons are off to their best season start since 1988-89 when they started the season 8-0 en route to their first of three NBA Championships. Detroit’s 9-0 start in 1970-71 is the best in franchise history. So far this season, the Pistons are 2-0 at home. They ended last season with a 32-9 record at home, the third best home record in the league in 2004-05.

Some Piston fun facts:
Prince is much better from the left side of the floor (72.7% shooting from the left baseline inside the 3 point arc)

Rasheed Wallace averages just over 1.3 points per shot -- a much better mark than most teams overall

When Wallace is on the floor, Detroit averages 4.5 more rebounds than their opposition.

Detroit's bench, overall, is getting 21.7 of the Piston's points every night.

Det 114 Bos 79

det 102 bos 88

Detroit 96 Boston 84

7-0

hard to accept the celts block over 2 more shots per game than us. i'm expecting a lock-down.

92-81.

97-95. i don't know why, but for the past 2 seasons almost all the pistons-celtics games have been close, so will this and we'll win.

Pistons 103 - Celtics 95

I look for the Celts to be leading after 3 and for the Pistons to crush them in the 4th. The game will get closer during garbage minutes. Pierce will have a rough game thanks to his ill-advised comments on Tay's defensive abilities. I expect for Tay to light it up tonight and force Pierce into alot a bad shots.

Last game it was 82-81 Piston win and a premature mark Blount celebration. Add 10 points for home court...I say a 92-81 Pistons win.

Detroit 94

Boston 88

Easy schedule so far? Not.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/preview;_ylt=Apko5dTQVoIhEbRtWvIlvz85nYcB?gid=2005 111508

You know the Celtics are going to be looking for a little revenge, after getting their hearts ripped out earlier in Boston. Even so, it's still not going to be enough for them to pull out victory. 94-90 Pistons.

I think the young players on the C's will shrink like a turtle in the cold moat around the Palace. :sick:

Pistons 104
C's 80

Celtics 91
Pistons 107


If the Pistons play seriously, they'll win easily.
Sheed will have a big game, like 24 points 10 boards. He has to wake up after a slow start.
Three of the starters have had hot shooting nights. The first two games it was Rip, then Tay, and CB. So it's Sheed's turn.

We won't shoot below 40% again.

Let's see if the Pistons can keep Raef from getting 21 points in the first half on 3's alone. That shouldn't be a problem. It actually sounds like a good assignment for Darko.

Let's see if the Pistons can keep Raef from getting 21 points in the first half on 3's alone. That shouldn't be a problem. It actually sounds like a good assignment for Darko.
Maybe, but if they hardly played Darko in the first game against Boston, what makes people think he will get a chance tonight? :confused:

Maybe, but if they hardly played Darko in the first game against Boston, what makes people think he will get a chance tonight? :confused:


Maybe because Flip said so.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/0511/15/D09-381147.htm

Maybe, but if they hardly played Darko in the first game against Boston, what makes people think he will get a chance tonight? :confused:

actually i put that we'd win by only 2 points against boston today in an earlier post, but i actually now think we'll easily win because we won at boston missing easy shots, and layups. the pistons won't do that bad again especially since they're at home. i say the bench will have significant time that counts and darko will be able to show if he can contribute in the regular season.

it goes without saying, the Celtics are coming out hard to avenge their loss. let's kick their asses and remind them they're still the Celtics.

Look for Prince to have a lockdown game on Pierce tonight making him think twice before talking about Tay's defense. Detroit 108 - 82

I like this Celtics team. I think they are one player, and perhaps one more year from being a lock for the second round of the playoffs.

I know everyone is steamed at The Truth, but hey, the guy is a great baller and has had some amazing games against Tayshaun. Pierce knows how to make plays at the end of the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

I like this Celtics team. I think they are one player, and perhaps one more year from being a lock for the second round of the playoffs.

I know everyone is steamed at The Truth, but hey, the guy is a great baller and has had some amazing games against Tayshaun. Pierce knows how to make plays at the end of the 4th quarter with the game on the line.
True enough...but is it too much to ask for just one ickle bitty ball being rejected with incredible force into his yapping pearly whites??? :D

the ball hits at an angle so all that's left is a mark that says: DING.

Look for Prince to have a lockdown game on Pierce tonight making him think twice before talking about Tay's defense. Detroit 108 - 82

First game back home for Eastern teams from a West Coast trip is always one that you want to stay away from when it comes to predicting the score and or wagering on it, especially taking the home team if you have to give a lot of points.

I am not sure why, but history will show you that Eastern teams seem to play down a level or two from the normal level in their first home game after a Western road trip.

Oh yeah, defense looks sweet. 60 pts in a half. Gotta love it.

they will settle down in Second half. However, I stick with my earlier post we need to play Darko more, Blocked shots is down big time thus far this year.

We are down only 10 after they shot over %60. Got to believe that number will come down this half.

I'm not too concerned... looking for domination in the 4th qtr.

As soon as Sheed & Rip wake up.

I'm not too concerned... looking for domination in the 4th qtr.

As soon as Sheed & Rip wake up.

Maybe so, but I don't think it's a great way to play. Coast in the first half and then hope you lockdown in the second half. The Pistons can probably get away with it, but I think it's a dangerous precedent.

I'm listening to the game on WDFN (Blaha). I've never listened to P's games before, and I have to say (at the risk of offending some people) that I really don't enjoy him. He's a homer to the extreme.

I grew up in Cincinnati, and when I was little I used to listen to Cincinnati Reds games. The announcer, Marty Brenneman, always called 'em like he saw 'em. If the Reds were playing well, he'd say so. If not, he'd call them out. Blaha makes too many excuses when the Pistons aren't playing well ("they have West Coast legs").

Were you expecting Blaha to give the other team love?
He'll grow on ya.... very knowledgable and he put spice into the broadcast.. (check out Blaha thread).

All we gotta do is pound it inside and the game is in the oven

Billups and four other guys.

I always listen to Blaha call the games online. I love it!

Could I say Dickau = rag doll beotch and CB should never shoot outside on him.

detroit 83-81 in third........i dont have the game on Tv , but I am so thankful to have Blaha to listen to seeing I got over 20 years with the guyand i missed about 8 when i was in the army. George is HOME to me!! U guys leave home 4 awhile, "then" u can slam Blaha...my bruddahs!

Have the Pistons set a record for 3-point plays the old way this game? I think CB had 3-4 alone in the third.

I really thought we would win at halftime, but wow!

@TBird - Yeah George is a homer, he's a lot better with Laimbeer as he generally plays the devil's advocate role.

Impressive 7th straight win. 15 points, looks like Army wasn't too far off, it was a late game blowout.

I like that Boston gave them a scare and forced the Pistons to beat them. This Celtics team is decent.

Still basically a 7 man rotation. Very curious indeed.

Correction:

Chauncey and 9 other guys. :)

Here is a link to the box score for this game:

http://www.nba.com/games/20051115/BOSDET/boxscore.html

CB was unbelievable in the third, and 'Sheed I thought really stepped up in the fourth (again).

Kudos to Arroyo as well. That fourth-quarter run was made with him running the point and CB on the bench.

Maybe because Flip said so.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/0511/15/D09-381147.htm

Yep. Flip was true to his word. Darko played "more". I was wrong.

The last time we played Boston Darko only played 4 minutes. This time he played 5 minutes. :tsk:

Another Piston win.

7-0 sure feels good! :)

I wouldn't mind it if they just won the game from the start instead of having to always kick it into high gear near the end.

Our PG combo dominated... Sheed and Rip woke up.

Now the real test begins.

I want to see Darko get more PT but this Maxiell looks like he is ready for some NBA PT.

I want to see Darko get more PT but this Maxiell looks like he is ready for some NBA PT.

Agreed... he gives the confidence that Darko lacks... but we have to project Darko in two more years.

I know the team should lock doen a little bit better in the start, but in their defense SA gave the ATL a 55 point start to, including 31 1st qtr pts. Now they have opend a 15 point lead in the 3rd, so a good team can role this way........i guess.

1st half

So far, our starters have done quite poorly. The best unit out there was Evans with the other four starters besides Rip. The starters themselves are minus for the game by quite a bit, way too prone to shoot outside shots, and not hustling back on defense.

The bench. Hard to say. Each player was brought in, and then was off the floor not too much longer. Darko got burnt by Jefferson a few times, but then stopped him. And then Darko was at the offensive board getting a couple of tap back tries. And then he was out of the game. Darko also had one offensive rebound putback too.

Delfino hardly was in there to say much about him. Arroyo hit a couple of shots. Missed one of two free throws. We used 10 players, but by the end of the half, Ben Wallace did not get much rest. Dyess played some too, did nothing.

Rip missed his first couple. Tay has missed a few outside shots. Ditto for Sheed. Billups on the other hand has only shot a couple of times and has a pair of made threes already. Well, we go to the hot hand. Maybe thats going to be CB in the next half.

I strongly suggest Flip go to a whole 2nd unit going in all at once. What he is doing instead looks pretty helter skelter. A constant different mix of players. Just an opinion. Rip has hit some shots, but note, its the long range stuff he is hitting well. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Game report

Fun one to watch for sure. CB just flat out took it over in the 3rd quarter. But still, CB could not get a lead all by himself. Boston kept hitting shots. Thats where Arroyo comes in. By the time Arroyo left, a full 6 minutes into the 4th quarter, we had the game in hand. Not won yet, but you could certainly see that we were on our way. Another outstanding game by Arroyo. Wonder if anyone out there noticed amongst his detractors. Probably not. Probably going to need to see this what, ten more times. Maybe it will start sinking in. Arroyo is pretty darn good. On a fast break, they had the other guys covered. So swish. Twice in the game he stole the ball. Just flat out decided to help the other guy dribble and came up with the ball. Ran fast breaks well. Several assists. And that defense. Boston rarely scored while CA was in the game.

We ended up with just a bit of garbage time, but other than that, and 20 seconds for Delfino at the end of the 3rd quarter, we just used Evans, Dyess, and Arroyo as subs in the 2nd half. Sure, our bench only got 16 points in this one while the game still counted, but it did a great job, taking our 3rd quarter comeback and stretching it into a win.

Dyess did little in this game. Just rested Ben and Sheed and thats about it. He did get that fast break dunk on an assist from Carlos Arroyo though. Ben made some key free throws late. Notice, he did not fade back a bit on those babies. Keep that up Ben and they will all soon start dropping.

You got to go back to Carlisle to why we won this one. Boston was shooting great. But we got physical as all get out in the 2nd half. Ben of course led the effort, but look at Rip right up Davis' shorts. CB muscling West. Etc. We played good solid physical basketball in the 2nd half and shut Bostons water right off.

Pierce showed himself to be quite a player. So did Tay. I will call it a draw for the night. But Ben sure as advertised helped out his friend tonight. Pierce managed to get past Tay. But Pierce had to put his head down and use every trick he had to get by Tay. But wait, keeping your head down with Ben lurking? Bad move. Ben sent that shot packing.

In the 2nd half also we saw the fruits of practice, practice, practice. In the game. Sheed went inside a lot in the first Boston game. With little success. He went inside in the first half tonight. With little success. And in the 2nd half tonight, no success the first couple of tries. But then he got comfortable. Got in rythm. And he went to town inside. And still managed to nail a big triple during our comeback. PS, Arroyo's shot gave us the lead.

Evans hit a shot. He was part of that rally late 1st half, and he was part of our rally to put us ahead for good. No, I can't recall any details really except he was there battling and the team was doing well around him.

Oh, but I did forget one thing about Evans. He finished a fast break with quite a dunk, showing his ability to really go vertical.

1st half, too many shots. But really, was it too many shots, or that we were just not making them. Oh well, one thing does not work, you go another way. Inside scoring by Sheed, and CB taking it inside a lot, was featured heavily in the 2nd half.

CB was brilliant, making several conventional 3 point plays. One on a falling down shot where he must have shot from about 2 feet off the ground it seemed. His other shot along that lines before that was prettty impressive too, just forgotten after the much more spectacular 2nd one.

115 points. Wow. 7-0. Double wow. And Darko got some more important, in game when it counts minutes. Four times now and no losses from it. Amazing. Love it. Want more of it. GO PISTONS!!!!!

They picked it up in the fourth quarter with 38 points, but they won't be able to do that against the better defensive teams (Indiana, San Antonio). Also, lots of minutes for the starters again and not that much help from the bench. Sound familiar? I could've written the starters/bench sentence last season (and I did). C-Note was great. Dickou was his beetch big time.

Carlos played very solid this game. He showed that he has alot of heart. Probably the most agressive D I've ever seen from him. The Pistons just murder people in the 4th quarter now. I agree though, they need to work on putting together a full 48 mins of Detroit Pistons ball. 7-0 does feel extremely good. :)

Great game. Who would have thought the C's would shoot 68% in the 1st half. Some of those were fast-breaks most were jump shots.

Even though the Pistons had to hole to dig out of its getting to the point where you expect a win in these circumstances. What a hugh 4th. CHauncey with 10 assists to go along with his 27 points or so. Rip staying on Fire, Prince and Ben consistant as usual.

PRBAller - Arroyo 8 assists and I am not sure how many points 8 I think. Great game.

Sheed - 2nd good game in a row, actually a great game tonight. When Dyess gets rolling look out.

Looks like FrenchyFan had the closest prediction with 107-91.

Disagree with the "No help from the Bench". Did you see Carlos A? The others played good, but he was great. I also would like to see starters play about 5 minutes less per player.

Yep. Flip was true to his word. Darko played "more". I was wrong.

The last time we played Boston Darko only played 4 minutes. This time he played 5 minutes. :tsk:

Another Piston win.

7-0 sure feels good! :)


You questioned why anyone would think he would play more tonight. I never said you would be wrong or right, or even thought Darko would play a lot tonight myself.

I just let you know a potential reason why people thought he "may get a chance tonight". You seemed to be confused. Isn't that the reason you were scratching your head?

One thing nobody has brought up that I think is creating part of the "problem with our bench" is the fact that our starters are so good. This may seem obvious, but the dropoff from our starters to ANY group of bench players in the league would be significant.

I agree that our bench has produced only sporadically (and I'm still waiting for Dyess to show us something), but it is all the more noticable because of the quality of our starting unit.

You questioned why anyone would think he would play more tonight. I never said you would be wrong or right, or even thought Darko would play a lot tonight myself.

I just let you know a potential reason why people thought he "may get a chance tonight". You seemed to be confused. Isn't that the reason you were scratching your head?

Sorry, I wasn't taking a shot at you.

I was aware of what Flip had said earlier but knew he didn't play him the first time so I was wondering why he would suddenly decide to play him a week later against the same team if the reason he didn't play him in the first place was because of matchup problems (like he had also stated previously).

I really like Flip and my first priority is seeing the team win. But I think sometimes Flip talks out of both sides of his mouth.

I think Darko has earned a chance to get more minutes. If not, then Flip should just say so and keep him benched so he doesn't hurt the team. If he has earned the minutes...play him already.

Hey Low,

I noticed your first-half post (regarding our lousy D, which I agreed with), but I also started looking back over some of the earlier game threads and noticed you haven't been posting much then. It kinda seemed like you only showed up when something negative happened.

I remember you not being the biggest fan of bringing Flip in here, but I want you to recognize some of the positive things that he's bringing to the club. No, our defense is not what it was the last two years, but it's still pretty good when it needs to be and our offense is really functioning well right now.

Maybe our gauge of success just needs to change a little. Rather than using whether our opponent gets to 90 as a measuring stick, perhaps our ability to get to 100 matters more now.

Just want to encourage you to keep an open mind. Flip's all right, he really is.

Leee, next time you mention Evans getting beat on defense... please remember Darko vs Al Jefferson this game... it's only fair.

Hey Low,

I noticed your first-half post (regarding our lousy D, which I agreed with), but I also started looking back over some of the earlier game threads and noticed you haven't been posting much then. It kinda seemed like you only showed up when something negative happened.

I remember you not being the biggest fan of bringing Flip in here, but I want you to recognize some of the positive things that he's bringing to the club. No, our defense is not what it was the last two years, but it's still pretty good when it needs to be and our offense is really functioning well right now.

Maybe our gauge of success just needs to change a little. Rather than using whether our opponent gets to 90 as a measuring stick, perhaps our ability to get to 100 matters more now.

Just want to encourage you to keep an open mind. Flip's all right, he really is.

Sorry Low, but you're busted bro...
I know you're thinkin playoffs but where's the love for 7-0?... crickets.

First, I read the comments at ESPN. You would think That Billups came in and won the game. Nope. Billups got us back into the game, after he and the starters did pretty poorly up until that point. And the big 38 point 4th quarter. That was mostly Arroyo, not Billups. But Arroyo's name is not mentioned in the article. We never did get the lead with CB in, but CB came back in with us up 7 with 6 minutes to go in the game.

Sheed ended up with quite a line, 20 points and 14 rebounds. Ben made all 4 of his free throws. Rip made the only 3 he took, but he also made I believe every shot he took from out near the line. Like about 4 or 5 altogether. Tay had just a good all around game. Some inside scoring and fast break scoring even though his outside shot would not go in tonight. Still chipped in with 15 points.

Despite all the heroics by CB in the 3rd quarter, it was Rip who led us with 25. This guy just does not get enough respect from us fans on the talent he has.

Laugh of the game. Blount got 1 rebound. Pretty typical for him, the starting center for the Celts. Someone in their organization should get a clue and ship him out while someone can be fooled into thinking he can play. And LaFrentz can't do a darn thing inside. Altogether, Boston has a very weak front line and should address this if they want to get anywhere this season. Trading both is a good idea.

Evans made 2 of 3. Darko hit another outside shot their in garbage time. Dyess got no more minutes in this one really than the rest of the bench squad. Thats different. About all for now. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Disagree with the "No help from the Bench". Did you see Carlos A? The others played good, but he was great. I also would like to see starters play about 5 minutes less per player.

I stand corrected. I missed some of the fourth quarter and didn't realize how good CA was. He played very well. Thanks for keeping me honest on that one. :nod: Arroyo has been impressive for the most part. I counted him picking up his dribble too fast a few times, but he was quite efficient as Lee pointed out.

Leee, next time you mention Evans getting beat on defense... please remember Darko vs Al Jefferson this game... it's only fair.

You must remember too, Ben got beat by the same person just as much as DMC did. Be fair.

5 of 17 from beyond the arc. I don't call that expert marksmanship. I just hope that in future games if the Pistons are not shooting the rock that well from back there, they'll find other ways to score. Seventeen three-point attempts is too many. I don't want it to become the norm. But it did seem like Detroit scored from a variety of ways tonight.

most disturbing was that Sheed accounted for almost half of those attempts. If I remember correctly, he was like 0-5 at the half. I like it that sheed can hit those but dang man.

sheed ended up with a great stat line but he had the most atrocious shooting night which really contributed to our poor first half. he wouldn't stop shooting - i was like either he has to start making shots or just stop taking them. it contributed to giving up so many easy baskets in the paint. at least he buckled down when it counted.

arroyo was amazing and got a standing ovation from the crowd - if he can just stay consistent...5 assists, 2 steals, and 4-5 shooting in 11 minutes is pretty sweet.

and i'd also like to add that the new spot for my season tickets is rather amazing :D

5 of 17 from beyond the arc. I don't call that expert marksmanship. I just hope that in future games if the Pistons are not shooting the rock that well from back there, they'll find other ways to score. Seventeen three-point attempts is too many. I don't want it to become the norm. But it did seem like Detroit scored from a variety of ways tonight.

if you listened to the game on the radio in the postgame rasheed was talking to blaha, and george asked him if flip said anything to them in halftime, and rasheed said that flip told them that they were not playing the way that makes them win, and that they were shooting too much jumpers and more importantly letting boston get very easy buckets.

most disturbing was that Sheed accounted for almost half of those attempts. If I remember correctly, he was like 0-5 at the half. I like it that sheed can hit those but dang man.

at least he stepped in that fourth quarter he was huge then.

Hey I picked this up from the Boston Globe forum ...kindof of a Leecap except written by a smart person. Some good points with an obvious Celtic bias..

Posted by MikeDfromNP on Nov-15 10:58 PM
This was a tale of two halves. The Celtics played their best ball of the year in the first, they were outplayed and executed in the second. It was a hard game to watch, because no matter how well things were going, you just had the feeling that it could all go to pieces. I have to commend the extraordinary performances of Ricky Davis and Chauncey, should still be a Celtic, Billups. Here are some of the major points I think need discussion.

1. The officiating - I know that some of you consider blaming the officials a cop out, and for the most part it is, but hear me out. The Celtics were playing a great team on their own home court, and the C's have trouble getting respect on their own against middling ones. If the C's had taken the Pistons out at the beginning of the third quarter, which they easily could have done, this wouldn't have been a problem. The thing is, they didn't, so the officials let the Pistons get away with stuff so that they could stay in it. Whining about it doesn't really get you anywhere, but realizing that it happens is necessary.

The Pistons have earned their respect. They will get the calls, that's the way things work. A team, like the Celtics, to get that respect need to knock teams like this on their asses. It wasn't just the lack of free throws, it was the fact that the refs let the Pistons manhandle the C's when the game got close. The C's need to make sure that doesn't happen. The Pistons didn't get the star treatment 2 years ago at this time. They were getting screwed themselves by the refs in games just like this one. They weren't given the respect by the officials, they fought through the bias and won it. They won it. The Celtics will need to do the same. If you watched the game, you know what I'm talking about.

2. Al Jefferson - I've been positive with regards to Doc, but unless something comes out regarding an injury, he really messed up with this one. Why didn't Al get major minutes in the second half, and why didn't he get the ball?!?! The Pistons didn't have an answer for the kid. He was red hot, and playing with a ton of confidence. H erebounded well and even Big Ben was shaking his head with frustration. I was impressed with his quickness, and how he attacked the rim. He could have given us a few much needed baskets in the second half, yet he didn't really get much a chance to do that. His jump shot was very fluid too.If he starts hitting that every game, most of the teams in the league won't have a prayer in stopping.

3. Paul - Had a very nice game tonight. I thought they didn't utilise him enough in the 4th, and that really hurt. Looked out of sync in the first half, but didn't take bad shots and played solid team ball. He was on fire at the end of the 3rd. The lack of foul calls hurt his game the most. He was creating a lot f contact on his drives, but the refs kept their whistles in their back pockets. If Paul doesn't get those calls, then he is reduced to being a jump shooter. He should have had at least FT 10 attempts in this one, but we can't cry about it ( see item 1 above).

4. The fast break - It was up and running in the first half and practically non existent in the second. The Celtics were more responsible for this than the Pistons. They need to learn that they are the ones in control, not the other team, and that pushing the break will facilitate the half court offense even if it doesn't translate into a bucket at first.

5. The Beginning of the Third Quarter - To me this was where the eventual defeat was set up. The Celtics came out and were getting wide open shots right off the bat, yet they weren't hitting them. They were still playing the same good defence, but the shooting just dried up. They responded to this badly. They started to force things instead of realizing that the shots would eventually start going in again. This played right into the Pistons hands. They got the game close again, and set the pace of the game to something more to their liking.

Sam and Worcester are big on this, is Red Aurbach, and now so am I. It is of the utmost importance that this team learns to came out of the blocks with the right mental approach at the beginning of the second half. They could have made great strides in putting the game away in the first 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter, yet they didn't. That gave the Pistons hope and that's the lat thing that we wanted. This is where their youth really works against them.

6. Blount and Raef - Is it just me, or did it seem that they actually refused to pass to Raef at times? I was watching him yelling for the ball, something he rarely does, yet they would pass to someone else. This really hurt us as Raef looked to me if he felt he was on, and his own team iced him.

Blount was great in the first half, but when he started bricking open jumpers at the beginning of the 3rd quarter, the rest of his game fell to pieces. He has to maintain focus, like Paul does. If Paul doesn't have his shot going, he puts a greater emphasis on the rest of his game. The same can be said of Ricky. Blount, who played very good defense in the first half, played a lot of spectator D in the second. Doc has to either kick him in the ass when this happens, or he needs to nail him to the bench.

7. Dickau - If they are going to play him, then he needs to shoot the ball, because he isn't much of a defender. He's an excellent shooter, but he keeps passing up open shots. If he's cold, that's one thing, but not shooting them to begin with is another.

8. Composure - They lost it utterly in the 4th. Were they getting screwed on the fouls? Hell yeah, but that is going to the way these things go until they win the respect of the officials. They have to overcome these things. They let the situation get them out of their game. If they are hacking you on drives to the basket, and it isn't being called, then throw an elbow into the hacker's face. He'll stop doing it all on his own. If things are starting to go south, don't abandon the game plan, that's what got you there to begin with. They have to toughen themselves up. That's what the Pistons did 2 years ago.

This was a close game right up to the final minutes. That it got out of hand had more to do with the Celtics' mental state than what the Pistons were doing. I give credit to the Pistons for hitting a lot of big shots. They really stepped it up when they smelled blood. The Celtics had their opportunity to win the game earlier, but they came up way short. I hope that Doc gets his act together quick. The way that he coached the second half didn't impress me at all.

Link to discussion thread at Boston.com (http://boards.boston.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&tsn=1&tid=2053&webtag=bc-celtics)

I'm usually the first one to admit if we're getting hometown calls on fouls and such, but I didn't see much bias. The Celtics had a lot of easy baskets in the first half - hence no foul shots. In the second half they resorted to jumpers - hence no foul shots. They weren't aggressive so they weren't going to get the benefit of calls.

While Jefferson *was* on fire in the 2nd half, it's not a Corliss situation where you necessarily wonder why they didn't play him more. He mostly got hot on Darko - he wasn't going to get the defense by our starters. At least he realizes Dickau is a liability - that guy can't defend period.

His points on #4 and #8 are way off base though. The disappearing fast break had just as much to do with the Pistons as it did the Celtics. When we stopped taking ill-advised jumpers and starting making baskets and actually playing defense, there weren't any fast break opportunities to be had...it's not like they could just push it up the floor harder to generate them.

"That it got out of hand had more to do with the Celtics' mental state than what the Pistons were doing."

That is just silly - the Pistons *caused* that mental state of the Celtics. We've seen 3 straight games now (Phoenix, Portland, Boston) that the Pistons simply broke the will of the other team. They kicked up the intensity and the opponents reverted to shooting ill-advised jumpers as a response to that.

Man Flip has got to start using the bench. As I've oft posted before, I don't mind us playing targeted D, pushing the O for big parts of the game (the balance of O and D depends on the opponent, score, etc.). But there is absolutely no reason for the starters to be logging huge minutes, when they aren't playing top-notch D. If Flip had played Arroyo, Evans, Darko, McDyess and Delfino the entire second quarter (maybe more) yesterday, we'd probably have been in the same place at the end of the first half, with the starters rested and ready to go gang-busters in the second half. They did it anyways, but they're going to wear themselves out in the long-run if they have to repeat that performance.

I understand that Flip is trying to get the starters in rhythm, but clearly they're already there. Its time to get the second unit in order, so that they can give the starters a blow. I'd like to see the whole second unit play from the 10:00 mark in the 1Q until the end of the half every game, if they can keep things close.

Darko needs to leap-frog the struggling McDyess in the line-up for a few games, and needs to be the focus of the offense on 5-6 plays per game. He's shooting 56% for the season and 100% from the line (and pretty good D in stretches). Let's see if those numbers hold up with some PT. I really feel for the guy. I'd be going nuts if I was in his shoes. (I'm not patient either).

Darko needs to leap-frog the struggling McDyess in the line-up for a few games, and needs to be the focus of the offense on 5-6 plays per game. He's shooting 56% for the season and 100% from the line (and pretty good D in stretches). Let's see if those numbers hold up with some PT. I really feel for the guy. I'd be going nuts if I was in his shoes. (I'm not patient either).

Anyone else besides me think that Darko's weak "D" has anything to do with him being overly concerned about getting to many quick fouls called on him if he were to be more agressive on "D". That is what I think is happening right now.

If Flip plays the starters 2 extra minutes per game for 75 games and we win homecourt, he can rest them like crazy down the stretch.

That's only an extra 150 minutes per man. It can be made up with 4 DNP CDs in the last 7 games.

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Right now the Pistons are winning and scaring a lot of teams. That's exactly what was needed.

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Right now the Pistons are winning and scaring a lot of teams. That's exactly what was needed.

Why would anyone eat a Big Mac when they can eat a Jumbo Jack? LOL

I wish I could have heard the Celtic announcers again this game... even though I can't stand them. It would have been really satisfying to hear them talking about how great the Celts were through 3 quarters and then hear the silence in the 4th.

Seems to me that you are both right. When DMC entered the game last night, at a time when no Piston was exactly doing well, he got an offensive board with a bucket. Probably feeling good about then. Why not run a play for him to get another bucket.

Instead, when he let his man get a basket or two, just like the other Pistons were doing, they jerk him out right away.

Of course he is playing less aggressive defense because he knows his minutes will be very limited and he cannot afford to take chances that might result in his being pulled even sooner. CB says he should not worry about his fouls but I would think that is easier said than done.

I wonder too, if playing the second unit a while in the second quarter would have resulted in the Pistons being any worse off than they were. I realize that this is hindsight, but he manages to play the other members of the second unit.

Micro, I am not a team conditioning coach but I think that there may be a difference in playing the guys shorter minutes throughout the season and playing them too many minutes during the majority of the season and then resting them a few games at the end. For one thing, during those heavy minutes for game after game, they would be susceptable to injuries that might not heal in a couple of game. Just a thought; I have no medical education. And playing the second unit more during just the last few games is not the same as playing them a few more minutes during the majority of the season.

We kept the other streak alive last night, too. Playing Darko a few minutes did not result in a Piston loss.

Darko needs to leap-frog the struggling McDyess in the line-up for a few games, and needs to be the focus of the offense on 5-6 plays per game. He's shooting 56% for the season and 100% from the line (and pretty good D in stretches). Let's see if those numbers hold up with some PT. I really feel for the guy. I'd be going nuts if I was in his shoes. (I'm not patient either).

We had 3 days in-between games and another 3 for the next one ... no harm in giving the starters a couple extra minutes with the extra rest time available. We obviously needed them tonight. I agree the bench should get some more minutes, but I'm content with riding the streak and doing what works.

As for Darko, Flip made the effort to put him in the game as the first sub off the bench in the first quarter, and sure he made a nice move in the post, but he also lost the ball twice and was not aggressive on rebounds. He's still got learning to do. I thought his defense on Jefferson was pretty decent actually - he fought with him in the post before the ball got passed to him, and he made Jefferson reach for his shot (although not as much as he could have). He seemed concerned with not giving up a baseline drive, which led to being a step late on jumping to try and block the shot.

Anyone else besides me think that Darko's weak "D" has anything to do with him being overly concerned about getting to many quick fouls called on him if he were to be more agressive on "D". That is what I think is happening right now.

It was good seeing Darko in there early yesterday, but his timid defensive skills were exposed because the game still seems to be to fast for him. With Al Jefferson's hustle and speed, Darko appeared to be a step slow in guarding him and yes he needs to be more agressive in either stepping up to grab a board, a loose ball, and putting those long arms is someone face. :boink: More PT in the first part of the game will increase his confidence as well as get him more involved in the past face of the experienced players.

But I'm glad the Piston won again. For what I read CB had a scoring outburst on the third Q (didn't get to see the game:mad: ) and Arroyo's game on the 4th sealed the deal. Anyone up for trading him?:laugh: .

It was good seeing Darko in there early yesterday, but his timid defensive skills were exposed because the game still seems to be to fast for him. With Al Jefferson's hustle and speed, Darko appeared to be a step slow in guarding him and yes he needs to be more agressive in either stepping up to grab a board, a loose ball, and putting those long arms is someone face. :boink: More PT in the first part of the game will increase his confidence as well as get him more involved in the past face of the experienced players.

actually darko played pretty good d on jefferson he just hit the shots. he was feeling it he also hit a shot on ben a few minutes later. darko was aggressive on the boards the first thing he did in the game was grab a board and take it right back up.

Darko needs to leap-frog the struggling McDyess in the line-up for a few games, and needs to be the focus of the offense on 5-6 plays per game. He's shooting 56% for the season and 100% from the line (and pretty good D in stretches). Let's see if those numbers hold up with some PT. I really feel for the guy. I'd be going nuts if I was in his shoes. (I'm not patient either).

i think flip will start using his bench much more after our streak ends. but right now it doesn't make sense to mess up what we have going. i don't think darko should leap frog mcdyess but i think he should get some of mcdyess minutes because he's struggling with his shot. darko actually isn't struggling with his shot so i think running some plays for him would be a good thing.

its great that anyone of our starting 5 can step up big. many games you will not see everyone of the pistons struggling. man chauncey was crazy that 3rd quarter, ricky davis killed us in the 2nd too but we pulled off a win. i'm telling you that game felt much closer than 15 points.

Why would anyone eat a Big Mac when they can eat a Jumbo Jack? LOL


Most areas of the country don't have Yack-in-the-Box anymore.

Carlos played very solid this game. He showed that he has alot of heart. Probably the most agressive D I've ever seen from him. The Pistons just murder people in the 4th quarter now. I agree though, they need to work on putting together a full 48 mins of Detroit Pistons ball. 7-0 does feel extremely good. :)

I really like how Arroyo is playing, considering the minutes. But the main reason of the excellent minutes he gave yesterday was his defense, and energy. The defense came because he did not really had to defend the Boston's backup PG. The boy was beated by Billups, and then Arroyo is a much of a better player than him. I also think that he shows more energy in the defense when he is having a good offensive game, and he is allowed to create and to shot. He just get fire up.... Let see if he can provide consistency into his game....

I completely understand the limited amount of PT for Arroyo. The way that CB is playing makes it difficult to bench him, even to rest. Also Billups and Hamilton could play an entire game without rest. I would like to see CA and CB playing together for some minutes. LB used it some times last year....