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Detroit Pistons @ Cleveland Cavaliers

December 31st, 2005 ~ 1:30pm
Quicken Loans Arena, Cleveland, OH
TV: FSND, NBATV Radio: WDFN

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~~Your Comments?!~~

The 17-10 Cavs are 9-8 when Lebron scores 30+.

That said, I hope he has a great game. :eyebrows:

Best Game Pre-Cap / Recap
We're going to hand out some posting awards in the New Year as voted by the membership.

Here is the scoop.

Write your best pre-game analysis or post game wrap up.

No plagiarising, and linking images will be worth ZERO points. You need to provide TEXT to be considered.

Offer stats, humour, insight but offer YOUR TAKE. Make it original and you might end up on the receiving end of some Pistons or forum schwag.

All 'caps from the preseason through to the end of calendar year 2005 are eligible. Multiple 'caps do not count, keep it to a single post please. Your 'cap must be posted no later than 24 hours after the game has finished.

Please don't post or PM questions. Give us your best work (meeting the above conditions) and you will be eligible.

OK, folks. The Heat game had a lot of feedback, let's keep it going against Cleveland!

Btw, GAME CHAT IS OPEN!

Look Detroit is not a Cleveland type of town. They always play their worse game in Cleveland. Lebron is a SUPERSTAR and there is no getting around it. The only way you neutralize a superstar is by hitting a high percentage of shots. Neither happen today in Cleveland so when Lebron hits a step back fade away Three game is over.

Well The game had all variebles that remain the same even when LB was the coach, Billups had a bad game, they shoot a low percentage, and they have a high turnover game. That equals a lose in CLev.

I'm not worried about this lose I knew it was coming, I'm very happy about our November and December Start, If you look at the past two years Detroit has had one of the best record from Jan 1st to the Playoffs. This year will be no different I perdicting a 44-10 finish which would leave the record of 68-14. Thats right close too 70 but not quiet.

GO PISTONS!!!!

This game was more about Flip experimenting with stuff than anything else. One, lets see if we give Tay enoungh shots he will come out of a shooting slump. He didn't. Two, lets see if Delfino can guard James. He couldn't. Not that bad really, but not needed at all. Prince could have played a bit more until Bron came out of the game. Three, lets see if Evans can do better. No, he missed all his shots. Except for a few rebounds, he gave us no points, no assists, no ball handling at all. Worse, he was playing when Delfino should have been playing.

We fell in love with outside shooting. Got behind. To start the 2nd half we were not shooting any jumpers and were getting back into the game. CB decided to lead us right back down the wrong path. Missed another triple. Not to mention he threw the ball away several times. But that does not matter so much. You will throw the ball away on occasion trying to go inside. What killed us is everyone else imitating Billups, trying to be a hero from the outside. We needed to go inside in this game.

There is nothing wrong with trying some outside shots. But if they are not going, you switch up. Altogether, the Pistons failed to do that in this game.

Ben Wallace on many occasions guarded Wade just fine. Further pointing up the simple fact we could go big with Ben at small forward. This leaves Delfino as the shooting guard, where he should be playing, and Evans right out of the rotation. Or play Maxiell. Or Johnson. Got to change something because this experiment with Evans is not working. Evans was given a quick shot at guarding Bron and it ended real real bad. Bron lost Evans so easily and came in and scored at the basket with Evans no where in sight. Again, if Evans can't defend, don't play the guy.

Arroyo made some mistakes in this game. And missed a couple of shots. That pales in comparison to all the shots Billups missed and all the bad passes he made. But I suppose there will people who find reason to hate on Arroyo. But think about this. Flip is foisting Evans on Arroyo's unit. Not easy to work around that. Not that both Arroyo and Billups did there best at it. Hey, much easier to just remove the player than try to work around a guy not contributing to the offensive sets.

Dyess was off. Not good on a day where everyone else was too. Arroyo left Dyess as wide open as possible on one shot.

The only real effective play we saw in this game was the brief time we had Arroyo and Delfino in together with Evans over on the bench. I'd say if Flip wants to try an experiment, try Arroyo and Delfino in the backcourt, with Delfino bringing the ball up. Then if it bogs down into a halfcourt set, let Arroyo run that. And please remember, no Evans. That is too much to overcome.

I turned the game off with four minutes left in the first quarter. It was obvious that the Pistons didn't feel like working a second holiday this year, and I didn't want to hear the Cleveland announcers BS about how this "sent a message." Fact is, the Cavs are an afterthought during a tough holiday week.

Lindsey has really been missed. Not saying he would have changed this game, but we need a guy in the backcourt who really gets after it on defense instead of taking scenic detours around every pick.

That said, thanks for an incredible 2005, boys. Get some rest with your families and start next year strong!

I felt the same way, but we still should have won.

Minus 13 in the first half. He came in with us down 6, and left with us down 19.

In the 2nd half, he came in with us down 16. Note, we had managed to gain a few points while he was on the bench. Soon after he came in, we were down 20. At that point, we are down 20 with about 14 minutes left in the game. Not looking too good. And Evans is minus 17 at that point, not having contributed any defense, any points, nor any ball handling.

The other day Evans had a plus 4 game. But I pointed out that he was plus 20 when the game was really over and we had the game pretty much in hand. Well, this is the opposite. When the game was pretty much out of hand today, you find Evans at minus 17. As bad as we played today, if Evans had simply not played, we still could have won this game.

Tay did score that one on one basket for us shortly after Evans came in during the first half. But that was it, our only score. And Cleveland did not fail to score even once while Evans was in.

Tay did score that one on one basket for us shortly after Evans came in during the first half. But that was it, our only score. And Cleveland did not fail to score even once while Evans was in.

Man I really don't understand why you have a rager for Evans ya maybe he didn't play well today and doesn't have the best games but the team as a whole player for player today didn't bring it.Evans maybe can't guard his own guy like you say but I know he can't guard the other 4 on the court at the same time.He has shown flashes of good and bad he's on a new team and learning a new system.

I watched most of the first 2 quarters so no I didn't see the whole game but unlike other games you could just feel this one wasn't going to be a comeback for us we stank it up.

The Pistons rely to much on the Perimeter, it is games like today that will be lost on the road, next game similiar to this will be in San Ann. Sheed is the only guy on the post that can get his shot anytime he wants, and thats the problem he does not want to stay on the post. This game shows:P that when you get nothing from the swing position its a lost. If Tay hits half his shots today its a win, same with Evans hit half his shots its a win. but I'm looking forward to the new year it will be a great run to the Finals where again its San Ann and Detroit.

For now enjoy the ride.

Yep, he did fine on Bron. That 11-0 run Cleveland got to start the 2nd consisted of Sheed leaving Marshall open for a pair of made 3 pointers, a Bron dunk off a turn by Arroyo. And earlier a bad call by the official. Bron lowered his shoulder into Delfino and got the call. The Pistons responded to that 11-0 run with a 6-0 run of their own before Evans came in for Delfino. We were down just 6 at that point.

Maybe Red uni's could have made the difference??????? LOL

Man I really don't understand why you have a rager for Evans ya maybe he didn't play well today and doesn't have the best games but the team as a whole player for player today didn't bring it.Evans maybe can't guard his own guy like you say but I know he can't guard the other 4 on the court at the same time.He has shown flashes of good and bad he's on a new team and learning a new system.

I watched most of the first 2 quarters so no I didn't see the whole game but unlike other games you could just feel this one wasn't going to be a comeback for us we stank it up.

Sheed shot fine. Rip put in lots of points. Even CB, despite poor shooting, got a lot at the line. And Dyess did hit a few shots in the first half before going cold in the 2nd half. We had enough to win this game.

I am not angry at Evans at all. Its the fact we lost due to the coach doing his experimenting. Experimenting with trying to make a player out of Evans. The game may not be that important really, but this is a short season. The time to experiment with the wrong player is past. Next player please.

Man I really don't understand why you have a rager for Evans ya maybe he didn't play well today and doesn't have the best games but the team as a whole player for player today didn't bring it.Evans maybe can't guard his own guy like you say but I know he can't guard the other 4 on the court at the same time.He has shown flashes of good and bad he's on a new team and learning a new system.

The real problem with Evans isn't his recent decline in play. What get's people mad is that he's getting more minutes over someone who's playing better. That's what get people mad. It's the same with Curry over Tay, Darvin over Dupree, Darko,Okur, and EC, Lindsey over Mike James. Curry, Darvin, Lindsey, and Evans are good guys, hard players, have Pistons DNA, but their NBA skills vary from non existant (Curry and Ham) to good with major flaws (Hunter).

Hunter over James was at least understandable, but with some of these other choices, and Evans over Delfino is starting to become one, it drives people crazy. Right or wrong, when this happens people really start to dwell on the negatives of the guy playing and the positive of the guy night playing. If anyone really thinks Evans is better than Delfino say so, otherwise understand why people are so vocal for Delfino.

This aint a Darko issue, with people debating potential. CD is proving his abilities on the court game after game, and proving that he is the better choice for the minutes than Evans.

What you guys said.

Somehow I think, the Pistons did the right thing if Lee is right. Experimenting is needed somehow and we need a few games like this. We shouldn't expect to win every game.

Let the Cavs think they've reached the top, but in the playoffs let them see that they've got a long way to go.

Maybe too much perimeter shooting in this one?

If everybody is off, everybody is off. Let it pass. I've played too many games like that, we just shake it off and move on to the next game.

First this game was lost at the beginning of the second qtr when Cavs went on their 9-0 run to begin the second qtr. If I recall Arroyo, Delfino, Dice and two starters were in there and both the defense (giving up 2 quick treys) and the play and shot selection by our guys was atrocious. :frusty:

Shot selection in the first qtr was bad too as Rip, CB and Prince could not hit the perimeter shot and only Rip tried to penetrate for a higher percentage shot. I am not sure why if the shot is not falling, Prince does not drive to attack the rim and dish off if necessary. They were killing us in the paint and we failed to adjust anytime during the game. I'm :sorry: Lee, but this loss should not be blamed on Evans, even if didn't he have a good game, because we would have lost whether he was in there for his non-productive 12 minutes or if he had missed the plane ride over there. :flypig:

This is another game where we got out hustled for a stretch of about 6 minutes or so and gave up an extended scoring run that we could not answer due to poor shooting/shot selection. Even in the third qtr when we were in the penalty with a full 7 minutes left in the period & we still took questionable shots that should have been in the paint instead of outside. Yeah we got 14 of our 23 points from the FT line, but I expected that the coaching would have emphasized going inside to slow the game down and put points on the board while the clock wasn't ticking.

Even when we made a run to cut it down to 10 in the 4th, we were still jacking up threes when we had plenty of time (7.5 mins) to complete the comeback. They only made two more threes than we did, but three of them counted, (the 2 at the beginning of the 2nd qtr and the one James hit :doh: to put the score back up to 13 when it appeared we were making that run in the middle of the 4th. It seem that everyone of our long misses turned into a bucket on the other end.
:rant:
Game lowlights>
CB & Prince shooting 4-23.
They outscored us 46-32 in the paint
They outpaced us 20-6 in fast break points

Never really thought about the 72-10 record, but a win today and we could have been looking at a possible 15 win streak before the meeting with the Spurs on 1/12. With an average of two losses a month, we could be looking at 70-12 maybe:confused: Right now, a game at time will do and the Pistons need to forget this one and go out an party. :eyebrows:

LA Dre, your summary of the game fails to mention the fact that we went on a 6-0 run, cutting the lead to just 6 points before Evans came into the game. No way the game was over. Maybe after Evans went out of the game a few minutes later with us down 19 points?
I have been rewatching the game some more. The more I watch, the less I am thinking good of Evans. He has pretty much been reduced to just walking over to the corner and staying out of the way until someone hits him for a triple try.

On defense, its a lot worse. In that first half, Evans was directly responsible for most of the points put up by Cleveland while he was in the game. I won't go into all the details, but lets start with immediately losing his man who gets an easy bucket in the lane. Then losing his guy on the perimeter, forcing Dyess to cover, leaving Ilgauskas open for a bucket. Etc. In the 2nd half, they put Evans on the point. Not too bad there. But hey, if that is the best he can do on defense, guard a rather weak offensively point guard, then why let him play?

Nothing wrong with losing a game occasionally to develop a player. Also, Delfino got some real important minutes there late in the 4th quarter. Flip is learning. Part of my gripe is people keep saying we can't play Darko, cause it would lose us game. So far, playing Darko has not lost us any games. Today, playing Evans did, and I am seeing a double standard here. I really don't see why people think of Evans as a vet. He barely has over a years experience playing in the NBA.

One more thought on Evans. Did you know that Evans only got in ten games, over the course of an entire season, in his first year in the NBA. He was dressed. Just did not play. And the coach who never played him. Flip. I wonder what changed his mind.

Lee, I am not a Darko fan at this point, but I agree he needs to be played even in these tight games. If Flip was going to bring the bench in early like he did, then maybe Darko's long arms and body could have slowed Ilgauskus down somewhat.....In a game like this when your starters were not getting the job done early, he could have even experimented with JMAX

Happy New Year

Lee, I am not a Darko fan at this point, but I agree he needs to be played even in these tight games. If Flip was going to bring the bench in early like he did, then maybe Darko's long arms and body could have slowed Ilgauskus down somewhat.....In a game like this when your starters were not getting the job done early, he could have even experimented with JMAX

Happy New Year

I complain a lot. But Flip is going in some directions I like. More Delfino. The last few games we have seen Delfino get more and more of a role. Arroyo did play in both halves of this one. Thats the good.

Right now, I am not rooting for any one player to take away Evans minutes. Just as long as Flip is going in another direction. In this particular game, we would have been far better served by Alex Acker taking Mo Evans minutes. The only player Evans successfully guarded was Snow. Acker would have been good for that, and provided another pretty decent ball handler out there.

And I'll add this about Acker. The guy has a good knack for defensive help outs. In other words, knowing just how far to play off his own guy, and where to be to help out. Delfino is good at this too. Evans on the other hand is not impressing me at all. He gots this to some extent in a simple 1 dimensional situation, but add a 2nd dimension and Evans is lost. I am specifically talking about where a guy positions himself to help stop a player from penetrating while still staying in good contact with his own guy.

Of all the blunders I have seen from Evans, the one that gets me the most his gawking of his shot. That is pure highschool ball. That is, if you have a bad coach. I still can't believe what I am seeing on that one.

While on the subject, look at what we get when Evans comes in. Either he replaces Prince, or Rip. If he replaces Rip, he is replacing our best guy at moving without the ball with himself standing in one spot for a whole offensive sequence. If he replaces Prince, he is replacing a smooth ball handler with himself who simply can't handle the ball. Just too much of a dropoff.

On the other hand. If Rip is replaced by Delfino, you go from the best guy on the team to the 2nd best guy on the team at moving without the ball. Not much of a dropoff. And if Delfino replaces Tay, you go from a good ball handler to the best on the team at creating his own offense. This is per Flip Saunders by the way. I just agree with it.

Plain and simple. They took it to us. We were ripe for the picking and they obliged us. Lee, Evans was as bad as Chauncey, Tay, and Arroyo to name a few. Take your pick. I pick all four. But we are not going to win them all and winning 70 is probably not a worthy goal. Lets keep home court and go from there. I was watching the Cleveland offense. We will stop them when the time comes. They have no half court game to speak of. And, they can not guard Sheed at all and can not stay with Rip. What I worry about a bit is our poor perimeter defense (Wade, Le Bron, Ginobli). We don't seem to have a perimeter stopper. That could be a problem. As for Evans in particular, if he doesn't start hitting that three, his rebounding won't matter.

I responded to Murph at the other board, who was bemoaning that we did not have a small forward who could guard James. I thought I would post it here to:

Murph, guess again. I have been watching, in frame by frame, Delfino's defense of James. Not bad at all. That first drive, to the right, Delfino not only stayed with every move James made, when James finally went up for the shot, Delfino did not just block the shot. He cleanly got both hands on the ball and it should have been a jump ball.

Next, James drive to the left. James lowered his shoulder and got away with it. In a series, this stuff won't be allowed. We will complain after the first game and that will be that.

We also got burned a couple of times because Sheed played off Marshall, which is a mistake. As it turns out, Delfino does not need the help. Next time around, Sheed can stay home on his guy.

Frankly, it amazes me what I saw. Delfino is cat quick. He responded to everything James did immediately and correctly. I am talking instantaneous response to anything James tried to pull. Great balance. And good height and ups at the end of a play to block a shot. (Or in one case, actually grab the ball. Man was that good.)</B></B></B>

Plain and simple. They took it to us. We were ripe for the picking and they obliged us. Lee, Evans was as bad as Chauncey, Tay, and Arroyo to name a few. Take your pick. I pick all four. But we are not going to win them all and winning 70 is probably not a worthy goal. Lets keep home court and go from there. I was watching the Cleveland offense. We will stop them when the time comes. They have no half court game to speak of. And, they can not guard Sheed at all and can not stay with Rip. What I worry about a bit is our poor perimeter defense (Wade, Le Bron, Ginobli). We don't seem to have a perimeter stopper. That could be a problem. As for Evans in particular, if he doesn't start hitting that three, his rebounding won't matter.

Dude, just no. Look, we were down 6 when Evans came in. Evans own personal mistakes (always his except for in two instances) gave Cleveland a score every single time down. And we only scored one time, on a strictly one on one move from Prince. This put us down 19 before Evans came out of the game.

Sure some players did not have good games. But some did. And Cleveland ain't all that. We should have won the game.

Sorry, you just can't dismiss a minus 13 performance by one player when that player single handedly for the most part gave the other team a bucket time after time. And on offense, the guy just sat there in his spot. Real hard for the other team to defend that, right. Evans gave us nothing, and the other team everything, in that stretch of about 4 minutes. Ugly. No way will I just say we lost just because.

Yep, he did fine on Bron. That 11-0 run Cleveland got to start the 2nd consisted of Sheed leaving Marshall open for a pair of made 3 pointers, a Bron dunk off a turn by Arroyo. And earlier a bad call by the official. Bron lowered his shoulder into Delfino and got the call. The Pistons responded to that 11-0 run with a 6-0 run of their own before Evans came in for Delfino. We were down just 6 at that point.

I remember that play. Clearly, a block on Delfino. Delfino has improved his defense, but he's no Dumars yet.

This game was more about Flip experimenting with stuff than anything else. One, lets see if we give Tay enoungh shots he will come out of a shooting slump. He didn't. Two, lets see if Delfino can guard James. He couldn't. Not that bad really, but not needed at all. Prince could have played a bit more until Bron came out of the game. Three, lets see if Evans can do better. No, he missed all his shots. Except for a few rebounds, he gave us no points, no assists, no ball handling at all. Worse, he was playing when Delfino should have been playing.

We fell in love with outside shooting. Got behind. To start the 2nd half we were not shooting any jumpers and were getting back into the game. CB decided to lead us right back down the wrong path. Missed another triple. Not to mention he threw the ball away several times. But that does not matter so much. You will throw the ball away on occasion trying to go inside. What killed us is everyone else imitating Billups, trying to be a hero from the outside. We needed to go inside in this game.

There is nothing wrong with trying some outside shots. But if they are not going, you switch up. Altogether, the Pistons failed to do that in this game.

Ben Wallace on many occasions guarded Wade just fine. Further pointing up the simple fact we could go big with Ben at small forward. This leaves Delfino as the shooting guard, where he should be playing, and Evans right out of the rotation. Or play Maxiell. Or Johnson. Got to change something because this experiment with Evans is not working. Evans was given a quick shot at guarding Bron and it ended real real bad. Bron lost Evans so easily and came in and scored at the basket with Evans no where in sight. Again, if Evans can't defend, don't play the guy.

Arroyo made some mistakes in this game. And missed a couple of shots. That pales in comparison to all the shots Billups missed and all the bad passes he made. But I suppose there will people who find reason to hate on Arroyo. But think about this. Flip is foisting Evans on Arroyo's unit. Not easy to work around that. Not that both Arroyo and Billups did there best at it. Hey, much easier to just remove the player than try to work around a guy not contributing to the offensive sets.

Dyess was off. Not good on a day where everyone else was too. Arroyo left Dyess as wide open as possible on one shot.

The only real effective play we saw in this game was the brief time we had Arroyo and Delfino in together with Evans over on the bench. I'd say if Flip wants to try an experiment, try Arroyo and Delfino in the backcourt, with Delfino bringing the ball up. Then if it bogs down into a halfcourt set, let Arroyo run that. And please remember, no Evans. That is too much to overcome.
Lee, we played a bad game.Period. Nothing really to evaluate. No team ever went 79 and 3. Here are some flaws in your reasoning:
1.Arroyo and Delfino CANT guard anybody. The reason our bench is in is to rest the FabFive and score some points. If they dont score, they dont play. Arroyo has had a great year, just not tonight.
2. U say Chauncey was throwing it all over the place.More than Arroyo. Um...maybe cuz Los played only 7 minutes, 0-2 fg, 2 assist , 3 to's. That's 15 turnovers if he played 35 minutes,Lee. Chauncey( I call him by his first name when he has a bad game)had 6 in 37 minutes. So dont ever compare these two.
3. Enuf with the Evans bashing. OK, u hate him WE GET IT. But I never see a poor EFFORT from him. like with the europeans. I see him in a new role when Lindsay comes back. But he needs time to grow with this team. The same time frame we gave to Dice, Dos Los, and even Tayshaun. Anybody who tries to find flaws every time someone 'touches' the ball, 'obviously' never played the game.
4. Dice was "off"? He was 4-8. 50% is even, not off. Tay and Chauncey (4-23) were OFF.
Happy New year...we still love ur posts tho, my bruddah!

First this game was lost at the beginning of the second qtr when Cavs went on their 9-0 run to begin the second qtr. If I recall Arroyo, Delfino, Dice and two starters were in there and both the defense (giving up 2 quick treys) and the play and shot selection by our guys was atrocious. :frusty:

Shot selection in the first qtr was bad too as Rip, CB and Prince could not hit the perimeter shot and only Rip tried to penetrate for a higher percentage shot. I am not sure why if the shot is not falling, Prince does not drive to attack the rim and dish off if necessary. They were killing us in the paint and we failed to adjust anytime during the game. I'm :sorry: Lee, but this loss should not be blamed on Evans, even if didn't he have a good game, because we would have lost whether he was in there for his non-productive 12 minutes or if he had missed the plane ride over there. :flypig:

This is another game where we got out hustled for a stretch of about 6 minutes or so and gave up an extended scoring run that we could not answer due to poor shooting/shot selection. Even in the third qtr when we were in the penalty with a full 7 minutes left in the period & we still took questionable shots that should have been in the paint instead of outside. Yeah we got 14 of our 23 points from the FT line, but I expected that the coaching would have emphasized going inside to slow the game down and put points on the board while the clock wasn't ticking.

Even when we made a run to cut it down to 10 in the 4th, we were still jacking up threes when we had plenty of time (7.5 mins) to complete the comeback. They only made two more threes than we did, but three of them counted, (the 2 at the beginning of the 2nd qtr and the one James hit :doh: to put the score back up to 13 when it appeared we were making that run in the middle of the 4th. It seem that everyone of our long misses turned into a bucket on the other end.
:rant:
Game lowlights>
CB & Prince shooting 4-23.
They outscored us 46-32 in the paint
They outpaced us 20-6 in fast break points

Never really thought about the 72-10 record, but a win today and we could have been looking at a possible 15 win streak before the meeting with the Spurs on 1/12. With an average of two losses a month, we could be looking at 70-12 maybe:confused: Right now, a game at time will do and the Pistons need to forget this one and go out an party. :eyebrows:
People remember CHAMPIONSHIPS...not records!My bruddah..

LA Dre, your summary of the game fails to mention the fact that we went on a 6-0 run, cutting the lead to just 6 points before Evans came into the game. No way the game was over. Maybe after Evans went out of the game a few minutes later with us down 19 points?
I have been rewatching the game some more. The more I watch, the less I am thinking good of Evans. He has pretty much been reduced to just walking over to the corner and staying out of the way until someone hits him for a triple try.

On defense, its a lot worse. In that first half, Evans was directly responsible for most of the points put up by Cleveland while he was in the game. I won't go into all the details, but lets start with immediately losing his man who gets an easy bucket in the lane. Then losing his guy on the perimeter, forcing Dyess to cover, leaving Ilgauskas open for a bucket. Etc. In the 2nd half, they put Evans on the point. Not too bad there. But hey, if that is the best he can do on defense, guard a rather weak offensively point guard, then why let him play?

Nothing wrong with losing a game occasionally to develop a player. Also, Delfino got some real important minutes there late in the 4th quarter. Flip is learning. Part of my gripe is people keep saying we can't play Darko, cause it would lose us game. So far, playing Darko has not lost us any games. Today, playing Evans did, and I am seeing a double standard here. I really don't see why people think of Evans as a vet. He barely has over a years experience playing in the NBA.

One more thought on Evans. Did you know that Evans only got in ten games, over the course of an entire season, in his first year in the NBA. He was dressed. Just did not play. And the coach who never played him. Flip. I wonder what changed his mind.
6 points is not "a run". There was no way, nor reason to think. that we were gonna win this game. o well,,,,

Dude, just no. Look, we were down 6 when Evans came in. Evans own personal mistakes (always his except for in two instances) gave Cleveland a score every single time down. And we only scored one time, on a strictly one on one move from Prince. This put us down 19 before Evans came out of the game.

Sure some players did not have good games. But some did. And Cleveland ain't all that. We should have won the game.

Sorry, you just can't dismiss a minus 13 performance by one player when that player single handedly for the most part gave the other team a bucket time after time. And on offense, the guy just sat there in his spot. Real hard for the other team to defend that, right. Evans gave us nothing, and the other team everything, in that stretch of about 4 minutes. Ugly. No way will I just say we lost just because.

....he said sarcastically...This is a TEAM game and we dont need someone to go 30, 7 and 7 like Bron to win a game. Teams that play us 'always' have to bring their "A" game. Always!!!! We didnt even bring our "B" game and still "couldhave" pulled this out. That is why we are the beat team over a 7 game series with anybody. That is what this team is built to do. Can U bring us your A game 4 out of 7? No one can...not against us!!

With a little over 3 minutes to go, Delfino drives in and gets fouled across the face hard. First, of course this should have been a flagrant foul, us getting free throws and the ball back. We did at least get the foul call. Delfino made the first, but missed the next. Score, us 10 down. After the miss, the ball clearly went off Cleveland, but the officials missed the call and gave it to Cleveland. With a good call and a hoop, we are right back into the game. Instead, Bron steps back and nails a three on Tay. Just wonder if he still makes that shot under a bit more pressure.

We were just down 14 to end the half. We knocked the lead down to 10 in the 3rd. They went up by 20. We knocked the lead down to 11 early in the 4th. They went back up 16. We got it down to 10 with plenty of time to go. Lots of little runs by the Pistons. Not a blowout at all, not a forgone conclusion that we were going to lose the game.

Lee, we played a bad game.Period. Nothing really to evaluate. No team ever went 79 and 3. Here are some flaws in your reasoning:
1.Arroyo and Delfino CANT guard anybody. The reason our bench is in is to rest the FabFive and score some points. If they dont score, they dont play. Arroyo has had a great year, just not tonight.
2. U say Chauncey was throwing it all over the place.More than Arroyo. Um...maybe cuz Los played only 7 minutes, 0-2 fg, 2 assist , 3 to's. That's 15 turnovers if he played 35 minutes,Lee. Chauncey( I call him by his first name when he has a bad game)had 6 in 37 minutes. So dont ever compare these two.
3. Enuf with the Evans bashing. OK, u hate him WE GET IT. But I never see a poor EFFORT from him. like with the europeans. I see him in a new role when Lindsay comes back. But he needs time to grow with this team. The same time frame we gave to Dice, Dos Los, and even Tayshaun. Anybody who tries to find flaws every time someone 'touches' the ball, 'obviously' never played the game.
4. Dice was "off"? He was 4-8. 50% is even, not off. Tay and Chauncey (4-23) were OFF.
Happy New year...we still love ur posts tho, my bruddah!

Good reply.

On Dyess, obviously, when I rewatched the game I saw he was doing pretty good in the first half. My memory was telling me about his 2nd half.

On hating Evans, no. I just watch closely. Can't help noticing his mistakes. Each time he shoots the ball, he just stands there admiring his shot. The other team is fast breaking. Get with the program already. What I don't get about that is why the coach did not chew him a new one during halftime about that and why Evans did it more in the 2nd half.

If you like Evans, go ahead and point out all the times he handled the ball well for us in a set resulting in points for the team. Or point out once where he played good D against a decent player of Clevelands. Or where Evans even got close to hitting a shot. Praise him all you want. Go ahead.

I will compare Arroyo and CB for sure. Two of the best in the league on assist to turn ratios. Both had bad games on the turnover front. CB his worst of the year. I threw that in there to avoid the usual Arroyo bashers.

On Arroyo's defense, so far, this rep about him not being a decent defender is not proving to be accurate at all. Where in the Cleveland game do you see him playing bad D?

Delfino also we thought was going to light on D. Ain't been the case. Listen to his coach. Per the announcers, the coach said Delfino did fine at times on Wade and Flip was going to trust Delfino to guard Bron. More than just words, Flip did have Delfiino guard Wade. And for about 4 or 5 minutes in this game, Flip had Delfino guarding Bron.

In contrast, Flip had Evans guard Bron on one play, and it was a disaster for us, with Bron waltzing in unimpeded to the basket. You say Delfino can't defend. Well, Evans came to this team with a rep as a good defender. Do you still believe Evans can defend better than Delfino? And what do you think Flip thinks on this now?

And Happy New Year.

With a little over 3 minutes to go, Delfino drives in and gets fouled across the face hard. First, of course this should have been a flagrant foul, us getting free throws and the ball back. We did at least get the foul call. Delfino made the first, but missed the next. Score, us 10 down. After the miss, the ball clearly went off Cleveland, but the officials missed the call and gave it to Cleveland. With a good call and a hoop, we are right back into the game. Instead, Bron steps back and nails a three on Tay. Just wonder if he still makes that shot under a bit more pressure.

We were just down 14 to end the half. We knocked the lead down to 10 in the 3rd. They went up by 20. We knocked the lead down to 11 early in the 4th. They went back up 16. We got it down to 10 with plenty of time to go. Lots of little runs by the Pistons. Not a blowout at all, not a forgone conclusion that we were going to lose the game.

I thought the game was over early by seeing the way we were missing shots and playing.Your last paragraph says it all that's what we do to other teams and the Cavs turned it around on us.Games like this happen we've seen it time and again maybe I had my rose colored glasses on during the Miami game but the way we were playing you knew nothing they did or whatever run they made we would answer.

The Cavs were the better team today.Will they beat us in a series?No way no how.Unless Evans is on the playoff roster then we will lose in the first round.:loco:

1.Arroyo and Delfino CANT guard anybody. The reason our bench is in is to rest the FabFive and score some points. If they dont score, they dont play. Arroyo has had a great year, just not tonight.
...
3. Enuf with the Evans bashing. OK, u hate him WE GET IT. But I never see a poor EFFORT from him. like with the europeans. I see him in a new role when Lindsay comes back. But he needs time to grow with this team. The same time frame we gave to Dice, Dos Los, and even Tayshaun. Anybody who tries to find flaws every time someone 'touches' the ball, 'obviously' never played the game.


Have to respectfully disagree, first Delfino did play pretty good D, and considering it was against LeBron, that's pretty darn good.

2nd, I agree people shouldn't just be looking for flaws from peoples game, sometimes guys do play well, and people still keep criticizing them. Hmm, like maybe Delfino? Evans has played poorly lately, and deserves every bit of criticizm, when he plays better, I'll be there supporting him, and talking about how well he plays.

Last year Pistons lost both games in Cleveland 76-91 and 76-92. Second loss was in March when the Pistons were playing well. The Pistons won the one game at the Palace 81-69.

Pistons have some trouble with the Cavs. When James is able to command a double team and the other players are making plays they are tough. Then Illgauskaus can use his height against our much shorter players and Gooden usually crashes the glass. When you get a game like that when players are not hitting shots they usually make - forget it.

Doesn't mean anything for this season. Clev is still to inexperienced and have proven again and again that they cannot win big games on the road. Until they can do that they are not a real threat.

Maybe it was part of a wild NewYears Eve but did I see everybody hugging KingJ? If there is one guy that could do what MJ did, stop a Piston Dynasty, it's KingJ. Maybe 5 or 10 years from now but we don't need to be respecting KingJ!:mad: KingJ-----> :caked: <---Tay
So the mood was set: King J love fest. Flip lost this game. If you want to work your bench why against the best player at home and why use bench guys on him. That's a harsh learning curve. If we wanted this game our starters would have to play 40 plus min., and I got no problem with that. Take the W.
Did we once take the ball out of KingJs hands?:ohwell: :confused:
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We want to see the bench developed so you can't say, well we've seen enough and cut the guy off. He has to have and get rhythm like everybody else. Just "COACH" them in sits. to win.

the refs gave lebron his birthday present by making horrible calls that game against the pistons game. with the loss and the spurs win we are only up 1.5 games again. this team has yet not lost consecutive games and it should be fairly easy to keep it that way for now with our next game at home against orlando.

What if they want to go love fest with Hill? I'll be happy with a 20 pt win or a 8 pt win with heavy bench.

Just to make sure I've got this right?
356 says most of the problems in this game related to Evans's 12 minutes (:blah:)... and Delfino is the defensive answer to Labron?
Ok that's all I need to confirm BBall IQ.

Could it be that most of the players played poorly... or is it worth 5 paragraphs on a bench player?

New resolution ... put Lee on ignore list (too bad the Det News didn't have this feature).

the refs gave lebron his birthday present by making horrible calls that game against the pistons game. with the loss and the spurs win we are only up 1.5 games again. this team has yet not lost consecutive games and it should be fairly easy to keep it that way for now with our next game at home against orlando.

The first two drives by James were carries, pure and simple. You could hear our guys bellyaching about it. And James with an expression of "what are you talking about." He cleaned up his act after that, but those two bad calls helped give Cleveland that initial 16-11 lead.

Just to make sure I've got this right?
356 says most of the problems in this game related to Evans's 12 minutes (:blah:)... and Delfino is the defensive answer to Labron?
Ok that's all I need to confirm BBall IQ.

Could it be that most of the players played poorly... or is it worth 5 paragraphs on a bench player?

New resolution ... put Lee on ignore list (too bad the Det News didn't have this feature).

i tried to put you on my ignore list, but found out its not possible since you are a moderator. So please do me the favor and do not comment on my posts further. I really don't need the harassment.

i really don't care about beating the bulls record as long as the pistons get the best record. because as a fan it's kind of fun seeing if your team will make history, but i just want this team to get homecourt. it would so much easier to win with the best fans behind you unlike our last 2 runs.

i think we did poorly because we had a big homestand, and then the team went on the road for one game and it slovwed them down. in the pistons 3 previous losses they beat there next opponent by an average of 15 points, hope the trend continues.