http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/DET_3079.gif http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/at.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/HOU_449.gif

Nov 18th, 9:30pm
@ The Toyota Center
WDWB/WB20 -- ESPN -- WDFN-AM 1130

http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/ben_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/rasheed_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/tayshaun_prince.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/richard_hamilton.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/chauncey_billups.jpg
VS

http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/rockets/yao_ming.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/rockets/juwan_howard.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/rockets/tracy_mcgrady.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/rockets/derek_anderson.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/rockets/rafer_alston.jpg


Game Preview

The Rockets are averaging 6 Points more per game with T-Mac in the lineup (93.4)... coincidentally Yao has only been shooting 8 shots P/game with Tmac back in the lineup. The Rockets are 3-1 with McGrady back in the lineup.

They currently are one of the lowest scoring teams in the league at 87.9 PPG... however they hold their opponent to 89.4 PPG... this may relate to their slow down style.

Juwan Howard has been one of their most consistent outside shooters again Sheed will have to watch the big man on the perimiter. Davis Wesley is also a lethal outside shooter off the bench (50% last four games)...

The Pistons will be fresh, while the Rockets will be playing in San Antonio thursday night.

Yao has been in foul trouble recently... this may be a strategy for the Pistons to take it inside early in the game.

The primary backups for Houston are Swift, Jon Barry, Mutombo & Luther Head.

The McGrady / Prince matchup is always fun to watch. Tayshaun usually holds TMac below his season average and shooting %.

Major Injuries

Bobby Sura (Knee surgery)
Lindsey Hunter (ankle surgery)

Rockets Player Stats (http://www.nba.com/rockets/stats/)

Piston Player Stats (http://www.nba.com/pistons/stats/)

Comments on this game?

Reserverved for admin additions

We may need extra size inside as Yao is similar to Shaq when matched up against Ben (lot of dunks)... although Ben makes him pay on defense.

Is this a game for Darko to get early PT against Me-Yao?

Spurs and Pistons on back-to-back nights. That's unbelievably bad luck for Houston (and Unbelievably good luck for the Pistons).

I'd actually prefer to put 'Sheed on him than Ben because of his size.

And yes, I would like to see Darko get some time against him to see how he does.

the key is tayshaun...holdin down tmac....

i predict rip will come through again and hit key jumpers

We may need extra size inside as Yao is similar to Shaq when matched up against Ben (lot of dunks)... although Ben makes him pay on defense.

Is this a game for Darko to get early PT against Me-Yao?

If not Darko, than I imagine this will be another game where Dale Davis will see some action. Even though Yao hasn't yet established himself as a "superstar," I'd almost bet that he'll get a ton of favorable calls if Darko's guarding him. Which will lead to our young buck finding himself back on the bench with the quickness. Even so, I still hope we get to see Darko get his shot at guarding the 'Big Oriental.'

That should be fun to watch, and would be a nice gauge to see if he can hold his own against the biggest center in the league, height wise at least. :)

We may need extra size inside as Yao is similar to Shaq when matched up against Ben (lot of dunks)... although Ben makes him pay on defense.

Is this a game for Darko to get early PT against Me-Yao?

ben has a mutch easier time on yao than shaq though, yao's a little softy and he won't muscle up. i saw yao getting deep inside against ben and he was going up for the jam and ben blocked yao and he fell to the ground. that takes some strength if youre almosta foot shorter than a guy, but i want to see darko i saw him do pretty good against shaq so flip should give the kid a chance.

This trip is gonna be a test.

But I believe in the Pistons. And they've been holding up their end so far.

Anyway, I don't think Yao isn't like Shaq at all. He's soft and I remember last year when he got knocked over by Chauncey, so let alone Ben. I think Ben is physical enough to guard Yao, although anybody just as long as we get a win can guard him.

Hoping for 8-0.

Let's go PISTONS! :nod:

I wouldn't assume too much. Yao's shown more toughness this year, so he could give us a tougher time. The real question is how much they'll go to him. I think I read that he's only averaging single-digit shot attempts since McGrady came back.

I think (hope) Detroit will squeak past Houston but it ends tomorrow in Dallas. :rain:

Prove me wrong Pistons!!!! :nod:

I will definitely be looking forward to seeing some Darko against Yao time. DMC did fine against Shaq and even with the added height, Yao should be "guardable" by the Swatting Serb. Sure would like to see him get off a shot or two, also. But I want most to see DMC stay inside and right on Yao. No wandering around outside tonight.

Another thing I am looking forward to is someone from our bench guarding Bobby Sura. At least, I think Bobby is coming off the bench this year.

We really need to take advantage of the fact that Houston had to fly home last night after a tough loss to SA. Gotta put this one in the 'W' column.

bobby sura is out indefinitely with a knee injury ... i picked him up off waivers at the beginning of the year for fantasy, then read the injury report and was like...whoops!! (it also says knee surgery at the bottom of the first post :D)

The key here will be abusing Rafer Alston. Alston has been absolutely atrocious his last several games. He can't hit shots, he's become gun shy and he's a turnover waiting to happen.

A player to watch is Luther Head. He's come in to spell Alston and Derek Anderson at times. Hitting a couple treys and dishing some dimes each game.

Houston plays the ugliest offense and stall ball defense. I hope the Ps run all over them. Houston is not a team that can make a big comeback unless McGrady is on fire. They simply don't have the weapons.

I'll be at the game tonight behind the backboard on your TV screen right...The Rockets are a highly overrated team. Their point guard play is non -existent, and their post up game is worse than that!They have to depend on whether TMac's knees hold up on back2backs, as well...Pistons will roll by 3rd quarter and win by 25!...See yall on TV , my bruddahs!

Will you being wearing your combo Piston and Cass Tech wardrobe so we can recgognize you?:sick:

None of my CT stuff can fit!:eyebrows: I'll be in my red and blue Piston team logo shirt with my framed championship poster!!!! Should I have a distinctive yell so yall can hear me? How bout BOONNNGGGG!!!!...or pistonForum rules!!!!!!!!...my bruddah??

I think (hope) Detroit will squeak past Houston but it ends tomorrow in Dallas. :rain:

Id like to believe that your wrong, But Dirk is playing very well these days. :doh:

Just another game. If the Pistons were not undefeated we all know who would win.

I think the steak will be kept alive.

Pistons 102 Dallas 91

Voting for the microdamus.

P: 87 R: 79

darko looking pretty good defending yao. much better than ben is anyway. 1 block on mutumbo too. our second unit kept the lead and let the starters rest we should pull away in the second half.

Just as I figured, another Houston slow down drag-out. I thought the bench was too slow and not playing with a lot of energy. The Pistons will need to raise their game because Houston is very good at keeping games close.

I'd bring him in to play Yao. Ben is getting absolutely abused. Why let it keep happening? Geez, at least put Rasheed on him. Anyone see Yao's parents in the stands? Some real lively folks. :laugh:

Just as I figured, another Houston slow down drag-out. I thought the bench was too slow and not playing with a lot of energy. The Pistons will need to raise their game because Houston is very good at keeping games close.

houston brought in starters for a while against our second unit. i think houston is going to wear down. they just aren't deep enough. yao has shot his wad i think and if not flip should put darko back in. tay is abusing t-mac. chauncey hasn't even got started against the rockets guards. yeah the rockets like to drag it out but the pistons like to blow it up in the 4th.

darko looking pretty good defending yao. much better than ben is anyway. 1 block on mutumbo too. our second unit kept the lead and let the starters rest we should pull away in the second half.

Pretty good?
That was phenominal defense by the young Serb... he was all over the place... I can not express enough how good he was defensively in the first half... some sweet P&R defense (2nd best to Ben).

Could care less about his lack of "O" tonight... that's that attitude we've been asking for.... didn't hurt that he smirked at the ol' fart Mutombo after the finger... I honestly believe his old man regularly kicking his ass (Darko diaries) has made DMC not intimidated by American toughness.

Now if he could just learn to rebound... he had inside postion and still lost the board.... Oh well... I'm happy with his play so far tonight... he's earned more PT IMO.

Yea did you see Mutombo get into Darko's face and stare him down??:laugh: That was pretty funny.


He looked good defensively in the first half as you've said.

Houston is begging to be blown out of their own building and Detroit is keeping them in it. :frusty:

Nice shot 'Sheed.

Now lets press our foot on their throat in the 4th!

Houston is begging to be blown out of their own building and Detroit is keeping them in it. :frusty:

That's been the Pistons M.O. so far this season for about 3 quarters. Then they turn it on in the 4th.

I wish they'd give it a bit more effort early so that the bench can get some minutes and the starters can get some rest. Even our blow outs have come late in the game, so our bench still got limited minutes.

I hope this isn't a trend. We haven't really played any top level teams yet. We'll have to wait and see if its just a case of the team playing down to their competition, or if they do the same against teams like SA, Miami and the Pacers.

48 points heading into the 4th is just plain ugly. Of course 57 isn't much better.

I guess he'll have a good game at Dallas tomorrow since he sucked tonight. It's every other game for Carlos. And where the F is Delfino tonight? He could shred this crappy Rockets' D with some fast-break action. Get his fresh legs out there, Flip!:rant:

put darko in the game. our bigs suck tonight. how could darko do any worse?? i'm all for mcdyess getting a chance to get his shot going but darko needs his shot too. if sheed, ben, mcdyess aren't having good games why not let darko get some minutes at least nobody is scoring on him.

OK boys, time to kick it into high gear.

Maybe Dallas will give them a close game.

The outcome has become so predictable that I have been falling asleep during the 4th quarter.

Maybe Dallas will give them a close game.

The outcome has become so predictable that I have been falling asleep during the 4th quarter.

If you ask me, this game was too close for too long. Anytime you hold T-Mac to only 6 points, you should win by more than 8.

Be careful what you wish for buddah, the winning streak has to end eventually.

If you ask me, this game was too close for too long. Anytime you hold T-Mac to only 6 points, you should win by more than 8.

Be careful what you wish for buddah, the winning streak has to end eventually.

I think that the NBA regular season record is 72 wins by Michael & Co in 10 years ago.

Now that would be something to shoot for. I think if they break that record they might get the home court advantage in the playoffs. LOL

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=CHI&lg=n&yr=1995

Why are the Pistons taking so many 3-pointers at bad times :confused: - Like with 3 mins to go in a close game and up by 6-8 points ?? Force the ball get some fouls BABIEEEEE
This current year HABIT makes me Nervous:mad:

We are not taking care of the last 3 mins of each period !!:doh:
Though we , of course are playing WELL 8-0 ,:nod: There are times where bad habits forming will kill us in playoff time.

nice to see sheed just take over at the end. this years pistons riding the hot hand. i like what i see. ben seemed to be alright i hope the injury wasn't too bad. pistons are looking pretty unstoppable just too deep for other teams.

Offense will need to improve within the next 20 hours or the Pistons will be looking at their first loss:confused:. Ben was huge despite being abused by Yao early and kept the Rockets at bay. They killed us on the boards, but the ineffective/injury riddled T-MAC and the 19 TO's allowed the Pistons to steal a victory when they didn't play that well.

Sheed came up big tonight on both sides of the ball... nice job on the blocks also....
I couldn't get over how we didn't take advantage of clear mismatches (Prince vs achy breaky Mac, Rip vs Barry, Chauncey vs whoever).

We still haven't played a quality healthy team... until tomorrow.

from 'Sheed. Nice job Ben, as well, both defending Yao and on the boards.

Don't know what's up with Dyess but Darko played well enough to take a few minutes away from him.

These Rockets look like us from the RC years. Clearly the P's had more talent but Houston was able to keep it close by slowing the game down to a halt. Without McGrady and Yao at the end, though, they had no one to get them a basket when they needed one.

Let's see what happens tomorrow. 'Sheed will have to play Nowitzki the way he did last year to give us a good shot.

Gee, most of the game, the only question is would Houston make it to 70 points. TMAC saved a bit of face by going out "injured." More likely his feelings were hurt because Tay outscored him so badly. Too bad Tay's outside shot was not falling tonight or it would have really been ugly.

I see a couple shots at Arroyo tonight, and no props. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Dyess missed three wide open shots. And so did others. We got a whole lot of good shots with Arroyo in, and the defense held. The fact guys missed all these wide open shots is not Arroyo's fault. Give me a break people.

Player of the game was real easy. Ben only got credited for 2 steals, but he pried the ball away from Ming a whole lot more than that. You only get credit for the steal if you pick the ball up. Bad stat really, as credit should be shared by the guy who slaps the ball away. Ben was great tonight knocking that ball away from Ming or blocking his shots. Or playing right under his feet so he got bad shots off. And Ben pulled down about 17 rebounds, had 4 blocks. Just 5 points, but one of those baskets was at the 5 minute mark when we needed it. Oh, and he drew fouls on Ming by scoring on him, and by taking offensive fouls. That last one, you could press assault charges for, let alone just calling it a charging foul. Ming hooked Ben at the neck with a serious elbow.

Evans got a couple of offensive rebound put backs and got 8 points for us and got bench player of the game. Dyess got worst bench player of the game, although he did finally manage to hit one shot there in the 2nd half. Darko played good D, got a couple of blocks. Did a lot of showing. Very active. Only played in the first half. He misssed 3 shots I think. Good to see him shoot them though. Only in game practice shooting really makes that shot better at this point. The shot looks good, it will start going down. Indeed, if any shots had gone down for the 2nd unit in the 2nd quarter, they could have stayed out there the whole quarter. Maybe next time.

CB hit some shots, made some plays, but had 5 fouls limiting his time out there. Rip continues as usual to be our most consistent scorer. And our 5th starter, Sheed, simply played good D and won the game for us with his post play down the stretch, scoring on Swift so easily you got to term it player abuse. Oh, and if a guard has a center guarding him, that guard you would think could drive the big guy. Wesley tried it on Sheed and Sheed blocked his shot. Great job Sheed.

With Ben taking Ming out of the equation pretty much, and Tay making life as miserable for TMAC as his aching back, Wesley was left as the only scoring threat Houston had left. Of course, we covered that up soon enough and did not let Wesley hurt us in crunch time.

8-0. First time since 89. If we win tomorro, thats 9-0, matching our best ever start.

The refs refused to call offensive fouls on Ming early, so Ben got smart and gave Ming a bit more rope to hang himself with. Ben simply backed off a bit, making the offensive fouls more obvious. By the time Ming fouled out, he was seriously confused puppy.

Houston tried hack a Ben. Stupid. Ben made one, which means instead of playing good D, they gave us a point, a point we really needed and one they could not really afford to give up at the moment with just over 2 minutes to go in a still tight game.

Ben got kicked in the leg during that last offensive foul / mugging by Ming and missed the last minute or two of the game. Hope he is ok.

Five and counting. Five times Darko has gotten real minutes in a game now this season, and still it has not cost us a loss. Dallas tomorro night, and I expect it will be 6 games. And 9-0 for the Pistons. GO PISTONS!!!!!

ben and sheed won the game for us in the 4th. i liked arroyo's rebounding and intensity of the bench, he earned us some tough points. we also missed 3 dunks and didn't shoot well from the line.

it was a slow game for sure, houston seemed content with turning it ugly ... but forgot the pistons know best how to win those. i really would have liked to see delfino get some minutes though, i think he could have added some intensity to the game.

and yao almost had a triple double, 20 points 11 boards and 9 turnovers!! heheh

Houston tried hack a Ben.

I prefer Bang-A-Ben. It flows better. Hack-A-Shaq works, but I'm not feelin' Hack-A-Ben.

Other than that, nice recap. :eyebrows:

I see a couple shots at Arroyo tonight, and no props. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Dyess missed three wide open shots. And so did others. We got a whole lot of good shots with Arroyo in, and the defense held. The fact guys missed all these wide open shots is not Arroyo's fault. Give me a break people.

Lee "I See What I Wanna See" 356. Arroyo didn't look all that good to me. He seems to play well every other game. Three assists and three points in 18 minutes. I hear ya that guys missed shots. Just means the point guard needs to penetrate and create more. In other words, put the team on his shoulders. Arroyo doesn't do that. Even Walton said something to the effect that Arroyo "dribbles too much."

I know its still early and I know Prince is still young, but I thought that the addition of Evans and a healthy Delfino were supposed to help with Prince's minutes this year?

This was the 4th straight game that Tayshaun has been over 40 minutes in the game.

CD didn't even hit the floor tonight.

8-0 is nice, but we need to give our bench more minutes to see what they can or can't bring. If they can't cut it, we need to bring someone in that can help us. Dice is a proven vet and I'm sure his shot will come around and we know what Hunter brings to the table. Davis will see spot minutes in the playoffs (EC reincarnated), but what about the rest??

Its way too early to hit the panic button, especially since we're undefeted, but I don't see much of a difference in the way our bench is used this year compared to last year?
:confused:

I know people are talking about how much deeper this year's bench is, but I'm still not convinced. They're a bit too unseasoned for my liking.

Now that Darko is off the cigs, he might be prone to needing more super size meals at fast food restaurants. That could lead to more body fat and depression as the season wears on. For you season ticket holders, keep a sharp eye on Darko during the games to see if he is eating a Big Mac.
- Don from the DetNews Forum

It seems this "Don" is a man of great introspection, his head planted well beyond his sigmoid flexure.

Lee "I See What I Wanna See" 356. Arroyo didn't look all that good to me. He seems to play well every other game. Three assists and three points in 18 minutes. I hear ya that guys missed shots. Just means the point guard needs to penetrate and create more. In other words, put the team on his shoulders. Arroyo doesn't do that. Even Walton said something to the effect that Arroyo "dribbles too much."

Citing Walton for your argument clinches the whole thing in my favor. No further response needed. I will give a more detailed account of what Arroyo did when I review the game again. Any guess at how many good passes I find Arroyo made. Hint: Guess real high.

I know its still early and I know Prince is still young, but I thought that the addition of Evans and a healthy Delfino were supposed to help with Prince's minutes this year?

This was the 4th straight game that Tayshaun has been over 40 minutes in the game.

CD didn't even hit the floor tonight.

8-0 is nice, but we need to give our bench more minutes to see what they can or can't bring. If they can't cut it, we need to bring someone in that can help us. Dice is a proven vet and I'm sure his shot will come around and we know what Hunter brings to the table. Davis will see spot minutes in the playoffs (EC reincarnated), but what about the rest??

Its way too early to hit the panic button, especially since we're undefeted, but I don't see much of a difference in the way our bench is used this year compared to last year?
:confused:

I know people are talking about how much deeper this year's bench is, but I'm still not convinced. They're a bit too unseasoned for my liking.

Tonight, Darko got 6 good solid minutes right there in the first half of a game. Dyess only got 16 mintues. Neither Sheed nor Ben were injured. This type of thing is very valuable to Darko's development, and did not take place last year or the year before as it should have.

Evans himself is a young player with little NBA experience. This is just his 2nd full year of playing, and indeed he just passed 82 games for his NBA career. Tonight, he played 16 minutes or so. Would Brown have done that? Rip and Tay could have played more believe it or not.

And finally, partially due to foul trouble with CB, Arroyo got about 16 minutes too. Needed minutes. You got to appreciate what minutes the bench did get, rather than worry too much about how much more they could have gotten. Sure, I would like to see the bench play just a bit more. But no way I am going to complain as long as several players continue to get at least some real minutes on a regular basis.

does say a lot of stupid things, Lee. Almost as many as you. But he's right on about Arroyo dribbling too much. Walton has a little bit more NBA experience than you, I think. He's actually played the game rather than sitting in his house reviewing game tape after game tape coming up with phantom arguments to support your pet theories. I didn't dispute that Arroyo made some good passes. Fact is, if your team isn't shooting well, than you, as a point guard, figure out something else. You drive to the hoop and draw fouls. You figure out a way to get your team a few bunnies. Arroyo doesn't do that consistently. He's timid about taking the rock to the hole. He doesn't turn the ball over much and that's good, but the offense stalls very often when he comes in.

does say a lot of stupid things, Lee. Almost as many as you. But he's right on about Arroyo dribbling too much. Walton has a little bit more NBA experience than you, I think. He's actually played the game rather than sitting in his house reviewing game tape after game tape coming up with phantom arguments to support your pet theories. I didn't dispute that Arroyo made some good passes. Fact is, if your team isn't shooting well, than you, as a point guard, figure out something else. You drive to the hoop and draw fouls. You figure out a way to get your team a few bunnies. Arroyo doesn't do that consistently. He's timid about taking the rock to the hole. He doesn't turn the ball over much and that's good, but the offense stalls very often when he comes in.

If two more of those shots had been made, Arroyo would have a five assist night in short minutes, the bench would have walked off up 10, and nobody would be saying anything. Further, if Arroyo did go for his own offense more, which he has done a lot of this year, people like you who love to snipe at him would say we need a point guard who is a distributor. Give it a break. Arroyo did fine tonight, made many good decisions, many good passes. For his time on the floor, way more than you could really even ask for.

Walton does say a lot of stupid things, Lee. Almost as many as you. But he's right on about Arroyo dribbling too much. Walton has a little bit more NBA experience than you, I think. He's actually played the game rather than sitting in his house reviewing game tape after game tape coming up with phantom arguments to support your pet theories.

ROFLMFAOOOOO. I'm dying laughing Gazoo. I thought Lee zinged you good with his Walton remark but you fed it right back to him. Shot REJECTED!! You came on like the Pistons in the 4th quarter. Nice try though Lee. You almost had him. :pound:

Aybody know the deal with Carlos D getting another DNP? I thought he was earning more minutes.Anyway, I love that we won a game in which we played so bad. Pulling out these type of games is huge for the big picture.

from myself:

"i liked arroyo's rebounding and intensity off the bench, he earned us some tough points."

oops i meant evans

Aybody know the deal with Carlos D getting another DNP? I thought he was earning more minutes.Anyway, I love that we won a game in which we played so bad. Pulling out these type of games is huge for the big picture.

Delfino got about equal minutes with Evans the last two games. This one, he got none. Maybe next game it goes back to like the last couple of games. Something to keep an eye on, nothing more at this point. Meanwhile, Evans got good minutes and did well with them.

I think CD is one of the players who could put us over the hump. I really think he should be resting TP more, but maybe that is why he is coach flip, and I am only a "Rotation PLayer" on Pistons forum.

He misses in the second half more as a result. As bad as the offense and the flow of the second unit was tonight, we still got some production that we wouldn't have had before. We finally got the ball to Sheed where he could score. My biggest concern is our back-up point play against the better teams. I am hoping for more consistentcy. Our bench player's roles are still ill-defined. 8-0 is great but this game shows that we have a ways to go. Tomorrow will be tough. Can we steal one?

I loved Darko's elbow chop on Mutumbo. Pretty aggressive play on the anniversary of the malice in the palace.

I'm just glad Dikembe didn't give him the old 2 hand push in the neck.

All in all, another solid win tonight. Ben and Mo Evans were great on the offensive glass. And Sheed polished off the ending rather nicely.

I wouldn't worry about the ugliness of the shooting. I have watched quite a few Rockets games this year, and that is their MO.

Anyone notice how tiny Ben looked next to Yao? He looked like a point guard.

and i showed all my buttttt 2nite...i had Houston in the palm of my hand...i met 20 other Piston clad fans 2nite and I wanted 2 have sex with all of them....i cant believe how the rockets fans were...at one point i said to the crowd "this is my house, now, go home!!".. There wAS this cute 19 yr old there and she was enamored with my old demeanor as she yelled with me in her Ben "3" tank top-btw"i wanthr"!!
....i yelled my voice out... will give u more 2morrow...we were tough and hard. when we had to be..my bruddah!

I loved Darko's GRIN like "come on, old timer"

YEAH!!!

GO PISTONS!!!!

Anyway, I'm celebrating coz this is the 2nd Pistons game (goes to show the respect TV networks over here have for Detroit) I've seen this season and so far I'm 2-0 when I watch. Yeah!!!

Looking forward to the Dallas game tomorrow. Most people are predicting the streak to end tomorrow but I'm hoping we have enough juice to squeeze out another victory.

Anyway, from what I saw:
1) Liked the way Darko backed up that elbow into Mutombo's arm with a block on the finger-wagging whiner. I'd like to see him get some more playing time though.

2) Dice looked horrible at times out there. Definitely out of sync.

3) Evans is great.

4) Arroyo still tends to overdribble but man does he have great handles.

5) Glad we have main man Tay locked up.

6) Defense looked sluggish at times. Maybe tired from this extended road trip.

7) We're 8-0!!!!

:nod:

does say a lot of stupid things, Lee. Almost as many as you. But he's right on about Arroyo dribbling too much. Walton has a little bit more NBA experience than you, I think. He's actually played the game rather than sitting in his house reviewing game tape after game tape coming up with phantom arguments to support your pet theories. I didn't dispute that Arroyo made some good passes. Fact is, if your team isn't shooting well, than you, as a point guard, figure out something else. You drive to the hoop and draw fouls. You figure out a way to get your team a few bunnies. Arroyo doesn't do that consistently. He's timid about taking the rock to the hole. He doesn't turn the ball over much and that's good, but the offense stalls very often when he comes in.

Lee....

Are you sure you two aren't related?

Gazoo you couldn't have been more right.

Arroyo sucked tonight. Besides not turning the ball over, he really didnt help the team much. The offense stalled with Arroyo in the game. We're lucky Chauncey didn't foul out. Everytime Arroyo came into the game we loss momentum and Arroyo became a target on defense, so much so that Chauncey had to return a little bit earlier than preferred to stablize the team. Walton probably makes the most ridiculous takes in sports, but he was dead on about Carlos tonight. He does seem to dribble too much at times. Arroyo has been on and off as far as effectiveness is concerned. Arroyo has nights, like tonight, where he just doesn't quite figure out a way to create easy buckets for his teammates. Other nights he seems to show the aggresiveness and creativeness that our team desperately needs while Chauncey is resting. Consistency is an issue here.

The bench player I was most impressed with tonight was Mo' Evans. I thought Maurice gave some very valuable yet limited minutes tonight. His baskets seem to have come at all the right times. I agree that Darko should have seen more time. I was very impressed with his defense. Nice job Darko!

Overall, a great win. All the starters played pretty decent, I would just like to see the bench bring some energy to the game rather than fight to simply maintain the lead. Often times our bench is playing their bench and we are not growing the lead. So far, the level of offensive execution and defensive intensity seems to go down a notch whenever our starters leave the game. In fact, the second unit's contributions seem to more often than not come from Tay remaining in the game and becoming the number one option on offense. We can't have this.

Flip needs to work harder at getting his bench more minutes but I think it starts with Arroyo, the second unit's floor general, working harder to keep those guys on the court.

arroyo had a decent game. like lee said he got people shots but they missed them. you can't blame that on the point guard. yes walton thinks arroyo overdribbles but so what. from watching the game i don't think walton knows the pistons personel too well. walton took some shots at darko too. walton would never say stockton over dribbles and he dominates the ball just as much if not more than arroyo. arroyo over dribbles but it usually ends up in a shot for his teammate. arroyo is much better than people think we would have lost this game if we had to bring in lindsey as our backup point with cb in foul trouble.

on the bench.
i'm not worried about bench minutes right now. i feel we will start seeing more of the bench after we lose a game or two. in my opinion we are seeing too much of dice off the bench. the only bench player i could justify getting more minutes right now is darko because the player in front of him isn't playing extremely well. delfino, arroyo and evans are caught behind tay, rip and cb who are playing great right now so they are getting the bulk of the minutes.

Overall, a great win. All the starters played pretty decent, I would just like to see the bench bring some energy to the game rather than fight to simply maintain the lead. Often times our bench is playing their bench and we are not growing the lead. So far, the level of offensive execution and defensive intensity seems to go down a notch whenever our starters leave the game. In fact, the second unit's contributions seem to more often than not come from Tay remaining in the game and becoming the number one option on offense. We can't have this.

Flip needs to work harder at getting his bench more minutes but I think it starts with Arroyo, the second unit's floor general, working harder to keep those guys on the court.

i think the second unit has to play as a unit like they did in the preseason. the dos los backcourt really has potential. yes arroyo tends to over dribble but on more than 1 occasion he seemed to have wesley off balance almost falling. i will admit he is inconsistent that's why when he's in the game carlos delfino needs to be in the game too. delfino doesn't over dribble he's going straight to the hole and he passes well. he creates shots for us too just like arroyo. evans just doesn't give arroyo much backcourt help so of course arroyo dominates the ball.

in the preseason the second unit was developing a kind of chemistry like the starters already have. i wish flip would have kept with this. the second unit was forming an identity all thier own. a much more uptempo run and gun style second unit that still had defense. also remember that the second unit's # 1 option on offense was supposed to be mcdyess who is off to a slow start this year. give the second unit time they will become a force.

i think the second unit has to play as a unit like they did in the preseason. the dos los backcourt really has potential. yes arroyo tends to over dribble but on more than 1 occasion he seemed to have wesley off balance almost falling. i will admit he is inconsistent that's why when he's in the game carlos delfino needs to be in the game too. delfino doesn't over dribble he's going straight to the hole and he passes well. he creates shots for us too just like arroyo. evans just doesn't give arroyo much backcourt help so of course arroyo dominates the ball.

in the preseason the second unit was developing a kind of chemistry like the starters already have. i wish flip would have kept with this. the second unit was forming an identity all thier own. a much more uptempo run and gun style second unit that still had defense. also remember that the second unit's # 1 option on offense was supposed to be mcdyess who is off to a slow start this year. give the second unit time they will become a force.

Agreed. The second unit really doesn't have a second option as a ball handler...which is why we probably see Tay infused with the second unit so often making the decisions. Delfino could definitely help out in this regard as he is without question one of the most capeable ballhandlers and creative offensive players coming off the bench. Maybe you should send Flip a quick email reminding him of what made the bench so effective in the preseason. :)

the first 2 games rip stepped up the next 2 tay stepped up then chauncey was huge the next 3. now the wallaces stepped up huge down the stretch to stop the rockets comeback. tay also did great, but it was sheed taking care of swift and ben hounding yao down the stretch of the game that won it for us. how many times did ben make yao get a TO or how many times did ben block his shot? ben new what he was going to do every time when he got the ball. this is the first game chauncey had less than 8 assists he was in foul trouble though and arroyo did well when he was out. dice needs to get back in sync, and after all i've seen on darko i believe he'll be a huge force in the paint defensively, but i think it will at least take him to the playoffs or next season to be a force offensively. don't confuse this flip will definently use darko on offense, but he won't score as much as the other guys he has the talent but he'll need more game time to get better which is what lb didn't give him. also evans did great those 2 offensive boards and putbacks were huge he did very well. the bench is doing great just wait till dice starts doing good.

arroyo is much better than people think we would have lost this game if we had to bring in lindsey as our backup point with cb in foul trouble.

Actually, this is what the Arroyo adulation is all about: a dislike of Lindsay Hunter. If Hunter ever comes back, there will be so much "Lee Love" for Arroyo that everything Hunter does will be subpar and everything Arroyo does will be golden. We've all seen it before. Frankly, I'd like Hunter to quit mostly because I don't think he'll be the same defender he once was. He should become a bench coach and teach players like Arroyo how to play D. :)

david wesley is a good player for them he can be the guy to help mcgrady on the perimeter. i don't know why they don't use him much? he can shoot well.

Ugly game, ugly win. No need to rehash what everyone else has covered, so here's something different: Can Arroyo play the 2 for brief stretches?

I'd like to see if Delfino can run the halfcourt offense for the second unit. There aren't many clubs whose bench can pressure the ball, and he's a more willing post feeder than anyone else we've got. (I'm longing for those victory cigar days when we knew Darko was going to get force-fed on the block.) Our offense could be much more balanced, and Dice might find his game again if he played inside-out.

like to see more of Delfino. He's played pretty well in limited minutes recently and I agree with the earlier posts about Tay being overplayed.

Lee, Arroyo did overdribble.

we saw a lot of the bench yesterday so i don't think we'll sit the bench down i think soince delfino didn't play a lot yesterday he'll have his chance today.

I don't mind a guard dribbling. I just want him moving from side to side while he does it, probing angles and making defenders move their feet ... instead of standing 30 feet from the basket like it's last-shot time and he's options 1 through 5.

Anyway, I'm celebrating coz this is the 2nd Pistons game (goes to show the respect TV networks over here have for Detroit) I've seen this season and so far I'm 2-0 when I watch. Yeah!!!
:nod:

Yeah, but the Pistons are 6-0 when you don't watch! :laugh:

Guess I better not watch then.

Hehe, though on a sad note, it just went to 6-1.

Well, I think we're gonna be alright. 8-1 is if I'm not mistaken, still tops in the NBA.

GO DETROIT!!!! :nod: