http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/DET_3079.gif http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/at.gif http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/UTA_846.gif
Dec 12 th
9:00PM EST
TV: FSN Detroit
Radio: WDFN-AM 1130

http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/ben_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/rasheed_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/tayshaun_prince.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/richard_hamilton.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/chauncey_billups.jpg
VS
http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/jazz/mehmet_okur.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/jazz/matt_harpring.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/jazz/andrei_kirilenko.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/jazz/gordan_giricek.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/jazz/deron_williams.jpg

http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/utah121205-1.png
http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/utah121205-2.png
http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/utah121205-3.png

Micro's Rookie Take (sorry butting in Merc)
Deron Williams is the second best PG taken in the draft after Chris Paul. He's got the ability to hit the open J, post up and drive strong to the hole. Not the slickest passer, but a capable game manager, Williams at 6'3", 210 lbs should give C-Bill a physical challenge.

In his last 10 games, Deron Williams is averaging 10.5 points, 5.7 assists and 1.4 three pointers made. Williams is more than capable of nailing the open trey, shooting a solid 38.6% from beyond the arc.

Comments on this game?
~~~

Reserved

My tickets for the game in Utah came in the mail today. I can't wait!! I used to go all the time, but I haven't seen the Pistons live since 1996.

Seats are front row (upper level...in the corner by the Pistons bench). The sales guy on the phone was telling me he would put me behind the Jazz bench. I was like "Nooooo....wrong team, man!" Anyhow, tickets sure went up in price since the last time I went to a game in Detroit. They were $54 each seat (for 4 total... taking the wife & kiddies).

I keep thinking Bogut's on Utah instead of Milwaukee. I dunno why.

Pistons will probably be tired. They have a game the night before against the Clips and I think it's also at the end of a west coast swing. Oh well, it will be worth the 5 hour drive even if they lose!

My tickets for the game in Utah came in the mail today. I can't wait!! I used to go all the time, but I haven't seen the Pistons live since 1996.

Seats are front row (upper level...in the corner by the Pistons bench). The sales guy on the phone was telling me he would put me behind the Jazz bench. I was like "Nooooo....wrong team, man!" Anyhow, tickets sure went up in price since the last time I went to a game in Detroit. They were $54 each seat (for 4 total... taking the wife & kiddies).

I keep thinking Bogut's on Utah instead of Milwaukee. I dunno why.

Pistons will probably be tired. They have a game the night before against the Clips and I think it's also at the end of a west coast swing. Oh well, it will be worth the 5 hour drive even if they lose!

...because Bogut went to college at the University of Utah. Should be lots of fun. My friend who is from Utah would be very jealous.

...because Bogut went to college at the University of Utah. Should be lots of fun. My friend who is from Utah would be very jealous.

LMAO, yeah. That's why! I forgot. :doh:

Have Fun DT! :thumb:

While you're back there, Give Darko a piece of your mind.

I hope Flip tries to embarrass Memo by putting Darko on him.

wonder if i should play ak tonight o_O

sprain his ankle in the 1st, he will.

back to back but I don't think It will have much effect. The Jazz are struggling right now and there seems to be some chemistry problems there with coach Sloan and a few of his players.

Bet Carlos A is going to get booed, prefect chance to have a good game.

My tickets for the game in Utah came in the mail today. I can't wait!! I used to go all the time, but I haven't seen the Pistons live since 1996.

Seats are front row (upper level...in the corner by the Pistons bench). The sales guy on the phone was telling me he would put me behind the Jazz bench. I was like "Nooooo....wrong team, man!" Anyhow, tickets sure went up in price since the last time I went to a game in Detroit. They were $54 each seat (for 4 total... taking the wife & kiddies).

I keep thinking Bogut's on Utah instead of Milwaukee. I dunno why.

Pistons will probably be tired. They have a game the night before against the Clips and I think it's also at the end of a west coast swing. Oh well, it will be worth the 5 hour drive even if they lose!

your still stuck in the past man, lb is not here anymore. flip gave the bench significant time last night and he will tonight so the starters will be effective. utah will need a lot to get past the pistons. what is weird is that the jazz are 5-4 on the road but only 3-8 at home.

Is it just me being paranoid, or does utah have an inordinate number of white people on their teams, both the present one and the old school teams. Wonder if that is by design or just a Coincidence? :confused:

back to back but I don't think It will have much effect. The Jazz are struggling right now and there seems to be some chemistry problems there with coach Sloan and a few of his players.

Bet Carlos A is going to get booed, prefect chance to have a good game.

With Sloan and a few players? Seems like a repeat of the "Carlos Arroyo soup opera in Utah". Sloan is getting old as well as his playbook. Time for a change there? Perhaps not. Sloan said last year that the owner told him that Utah was "his (Sloan)team". Can wait to see CA whipping them with some crisp passes.

Final Score: Stones 95, Utah 82

Is it just me being paranoid, or does utah have an inordinate number of white people on their teams, both the present one and the old school teams. Wonder if that is by design or just a Coincidence? :confused:

Yeah, 4.5 white starters looks pretty strange. Plus Ostertag.

But, they do have have Robert Whaley, whose picture on their website looks like this... so I guess it all balances out.

http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/robert_whaley.jpg

Robert Whaley

http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/jazz/robert_whaley.jpg

Yeah, 4.5 white starters looks pretty strange. Plus Ostertag.

But, they do have have Robert Whaley, whose picture on their website looks like this... so I guess it all balances out.

http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/robert_whaley.jpg

what do you mean by 4.5 Deron williams is black it's just that his skin is light. tay is like that too, but we all know he's black. you guys do know that right.

i hope carlos arroyo burns up sloans team to night that's gotta show him something.

what do you mean by 4.5 Deron williams is black it's just that his skin is light. tay is like that too, but we all know he's black. you guys do know that right.

I know, just fooling around.

This falls under the same theory that says that the Celtics are trying to get as many Irish looking players as possible...

And they have a player named O'Rien Greene (surprisingly not Irish).

what do you mean by 4.5 Deron williams is black it's just that his skin is light. tay is like that too, but we all know he's black. you guys do know that right.

Tay is black? :doh: I thought he was Comptons great white hope!

I know, just fooling around.

This falls under the same theory that says that the Celtics are trying to get as many Irish looking players as possible...

And they have a player named O'Rien Greene (surprisingly not Irish).

just checked therte roster i was listening to the celtics game (the one where rip hit the buzzer beater), and i thought his name was dorian not O'Rien.

I doubt the fans will pay much attention to Carlos. The Pistons should pay attention to how the Jazz blew them out last year in Utah.

Is it just me being paranoid, or does utah have an inordinate number of white people on their teams, both the present one and the old school teams. Wonder if that is by design or just a Coincidence? :confused:

I've been to Salt Lake a few times, not too much other than white folks there. Might not be a conicidence. Even Karl Malone seemed kinda like a black redneck, for some reason.

I've been to Salt Lake a few times, not too much other than white folks there. Might not be a conicidence. Even Karl Malone seemed kinda like a black redneck, for some reason.

Good point, now that you say that I remember how annoying Karl malone was with his cowboy outfits and "I'm tougher than John Wayne" attitude. There are some players that annoy me now, but none do near as much as old Cowboy Malone did!

Game Chat is now open...

See the image at the top of the forums for more information....

check out the game log on sportsline. these guys are a trip.

What a disastrous second half.

I'm listening to the game on the radio, and I would be curious what those watching the game say. It doesn't seem to me like Ben's contributing much. We're getting pounded on the boards and that's really what he's in there to do. I don't know if it's because there's something wrong with him physically, but he just doesn't seem to be giving us the energy he has in the past.

27 points in the 2nd half. the starters mailed it in and complained that they weren't getting calls (which they weren't, the refs were pretty bad, although bad both ways). they took the night off basically, ruining a good start by the bench. we woulda won if the bench played the 2nd half lol.

p1ssed that we lost to such a god-awful team, but oh well.

Sad day when the Lakers can beat the Mavs in Dallas, but we can't beat the Jazz after having a 13 point halftime lead.:frusty:

I think Flip should have pulled the tired starters midway through the third qtr. and inserted the bench then. :mad:

yeah but who didn't believe the starters could go on a tear and pull it out?

If we had to lose, it was good to hear that Memo had a great game. Oh, well, we'll get them in Detroit.

Disappointment.

Outplayed in the 2nd half. This game was set up for the win:

-low minutes in LA, w/ a non-athletic 4th quarter with the hack-a-Ben
-comfortable lead at the half

And then we couldn't chase boards, couldn't get a foul on our end, and AK and Okur getting hot. In crunch catch up time, our infamous starting five couldn't get anything down, and that's where I think a bench siting in the 4th, at least maybe a hustle guy like Evans or a rebouder like Davis could provide a spark. But nope, we choke and nothing goes our way.

What a BS game by the starters. Everything was back it down, hold the ball for an iso or jack up a three. Selfish, lazy, conceited play devoid of movement by anybody who didn't have the ball in their hands. Nobody rebounded, and Prince shouldn't have been allowed to play 20 minutes in this game. A lot of bad habits we've been getting away with bit us on the butt. I agree with those who said the bench should have gotten more time.

Another back-to-back loss...but after beating a couple decent teams on a road trip. The down nights are going to happen...look at the Spurs the other night against ATL.

At least you can't pin this one on the bench.

But I still think the bench needs a change.

Sad day when the Lakers can beat the Mavs in Dallas, but we can't beat the Jazz after having a 13 point halftime lead.:frusty:

I think Flip should have pulled the tired starters midway through the third qtr. and inserted the bench then. :mad:

This is a good point here. Once the offense went South, I'm not sure enough adjustments were made by the coach. How long did it take to bring McDyess back in, like 8 minutes?

This is a good point here. Once the offense went South, I'm not sure enough adjustments were made by the coach. How long did it take to bring McDyess back in, like 8 minutes?

The game was still tight in the 3rd and I don't think throwing the bench in against their starters at that point would have been a good call.

That's 9 out 19 games the Pistons have been rebounded?

Ain't gunna get it done. Yes it is only one loss, and yeah we are going to drop some games.

But 2 of the losses were sloppy, not hard fought battles.

Champs don't give up double digit leads after the half against a team with Devin Brown and Milt Palacio starting in the backcourt.

Good game for the Pistons. They need a butt whuppin every once in a while. These starters get big heads FAST. It's their one character flaw which I cannot stand.

Good game for the Pistons. They need a butt whuppin every once in a while. These starters get big heads FAST. It's their one character flaw which I cannot stand.

The Piston starters are the very LAST ones in the league that I would consider vulnerable to getting big heads...I don't think that's a 'character flaw' that anyone of them has.

The game was still tight in the 3rd and I don't think throwing the bench in against their starters at that point would have been a good call.

Yeah, I wouldn't put the entire bench back in either. Just someone to bring in some scoring a la Vinnie Johnson. Last year that guy was McDyess. I just think he should have come back in earlier. When you're in the midst of a scoring drought, you have to make some sort of adjustment. Flip knew his team was tired, he said so before the game.

Just someone to bring in some scoring a la Vinnie Johnson.

Kinda goes back to a point I've made before...the Pistons don't really have a 6th man this year. Maybe '6th man' is an archaic term in the NBA now...but the bench needs a leader.

Kinda goes back to a point I've made before...the Pistons don't really have a 6th man this year. Maybe '6th man' is an archaic term in the NBA now...but the bench needs a leader.

Do you see that leader somewhere on the team currently or do you propose a trade? I still think this team is another big move away from an NBA title. I don't care what the current record is, this team will have some tough games and the bench and the coach will have to be the difference. I'm not sure the bench is up to it and Flip hasn't really been tested yet as far as yanking a team out of its doldrums.

When the starters fall flat we have no one to go in to pick up the slack this year. Need somebody to help out Dice until he regains his shot:confused:

Trades anyone ??

mcdyess has been getting his shot back though, and he was 5/7 tonight. it's comin along.

Is it just me being paranoid, or does utah have an inordinate number of white people on their teams, both the present one and the old school teams. Wonder if that is by design or just a Coincidence? :confused:

I think they were/are just passing, especially John Stockton.:nod:

Do you see that leader somewhere on the team currently or do you propose a trade? I still think this team is another big move away from an NBA title.

The only leader I see is Lindsey. How he's going to be physically when he returns...who knows? He had tenacious D, he was a good floor leader...and he was a little suspect as a scorer. But he's the only guy I see on the bench as having the heart to make the rest of the bench better...AND make the starters comfortable leaving the floor knowing that the game is in good hands.

Of late...Arroyo's looking far more comfortable on the floor, Dice looks like he's getting his shot back, Delfino's been a pleasant surprise to me, Evans is on & off...but has the hustle. Yet none of them impresses me as a player the starters can fall back on.

IMO...you're right...the bench needs a trade to be competitive late in the playoffs.

I've said it a number of times before...Arroyo, Evans/Delfino & Darko for Mike James & Mo Pete.

I'm a broken record :P Someone...please tell me to shutup! :brick:

...AND offer a better solution ;)

The starters do get big heads. Just look at the whining and techs they get every so often. It isnt a Kobe big head, but a we are ridiculously good (true) and deserve the benefit of the doubt on each call.

He has to figure a formula for the back to backs. If we are going to lose like this, obviously we need more bench. It could be that they just relaxed with the lead and the momemtum couldn't be recaptured. But still, Flip has to figure out a better formula for minutes and he will. Davis could have got us some rebounds: Delfino could have got us some points.

If we had to lose, it was good to hear that Memo had a great game. Oh, well, we'll get them in Detroit.

We get beat by Stackhouse, Chucky and Memo.

Pistons lost because they gave up 17 offensive rebounds and were outrebounded 55-27. Dyess had 2 rebounds off the bench to Collins 14. Ben 6, Sheed 8 to Kerilenko's 12 and Okurs 12.

Pistons lack of rebounding is in the scouting report. Teams are bringing in these 3rd string PF/C type of guys who slide into the paint whenever a shot goes up for the offensive board. Its getting to the point now where other teams expect to own the boards. Even in winning you could see this as something to tweak and now it blew up in the Pistons face.

If something is wrong with Ben Wallace then get him out of there and get it fixed. Dyess has not been getting it done on the glass either. Maybe try some other options like Davis or Jmax. Can Maxiel rebound? Get him in there if he can.

I like Max's take on it. Tonight we didn't need a sixth man, we needed first through fifth men. Way too many second shots and long rebounds we didn't even get close to. Ben is a lot more easily neutralized these days than he used to be, and only part of that is his health. The other guys need to drop the "let Ben do it" attitude and take up the slack for him. We don't want the loose balls enough.

Meanwhile, I guess we fans have to guard against greediness. Sweeping West Coast series and winning every game isn't something you can take for granted. When you're winning five out of every six, you have to live with the occasional lemon.

Lanierfan. True you will get the occasional Lemon. I would not mind if the shots were not falling or the team had a few misques. This rebounding thing is has been going on for the past 7 or 8 games. Whatever the Pistons were doing in the 1st 10 games or so on the glass they need to get back to. I hate seeing every 6'11" scrub from the opponents team thinking they own the glass against the Pistons. That has to stop.

A lot of that is Ben Wallace. Obviously he has not aged enough in a month's time span to point to anything else than somekind of injury. Its too early in the season ( way too early ) to have a key guy out there playing injured. Great opportunity for some other guys to contribute. If not Darko then Maxiel or Davis. Davis is a pro and you know he will be ready and I would love to see what Maxiel has. Something tells me he would have had something to say about Collins, Okur and Kerilenko running over the Pistons last night.

Great early season success so far. Have to love it. But if the team needs to take a step back and correct some things and get Ben Wallace healthy even if it means a temporary lull then so be it. Goal is still to be playing 100% come playoff time.

the only reason we had that lead was because we made the jazz get turnovers in the first half. the pistons did bad rebounding in the first half too but since they created TO's they had a good lead. once they stopped creating turnovers the whole defenbse collapsed. bench did good should of had more pt.

The Pistons have been hiding a LOT of deficiencies by forcing turnovers. You see the wins, and the incredible offense and it can carry you away sometimes.

But if you go back to the box score, or watch the ebb and flow of the game, these guys still have a LOT to work on before they could beat last year's squad.

Physicality, rebounding, hustle (from the starters), consistency.

If I find time this week, I'll dig into Minnesota's work under Flip to see if it is a systemic issue or just a lack of discipline.

Himat, Mwave. Current Pistons play is starting to remind me of the mid 90's Sonics. They got out rebounded a lot and caused a lot of TO's. Great records but never got very far in playoffs except for one year.
With the exeption of whatever is wrong with Ben it looks like just plain not putting the effort into crashing the boards. Too easy to get by without it as long as the team is winning.

I would be very interested in reading more on Flip in Minnesota and if this is his usual style.

Its important to realize that the Pistons know how to succeeed in the post-season so if its done right the coach can learn from the players as well as the players learning from the coach.

Pistons have the talent to fix the rebounding issue. Were rebouding great to start the season so just get back to that. Whatever they were doing back then go back to it. Put in the effort and try out other players like Maxiel.

I haven't watched the Pistons enough to know the answer: Is the rebounding problem caused because more and more of the starters are camping out by the perimeter and they simply can't get to their own missed shots? I guess that could only be part of the problem, the offensive rebounding problem.

REBOUNDS!!! That's what i've been talking about for the past 5 games. Got outrebound by more than half??? That's not DETROIT BASKETBALL!!! Flip has a big problem. Maybe it is due to the zone defense he is trying to implement to the team. If it is and it did not work (for 5 straight games) and got embarassed last nite, just let the boys play DEFENSE they way they were playing for the past few years, for heaven sake.

As for Big Ben, if he is really bothered by his knee and ankle, maybe he need some rest. And rest, I mean, take a few games off. Dale Davis can start in his place, Dyess coming off the bench as usual, and Darko to get his minutes and show us what he can do. If he still fail to perform, TRADE HIM!!!

This is the time where Flip should play the bench more and rest the starters if they are really injured. We do not want Ben to have a long term injury.

. . . it might be a GOOD time to start Darko, telling him he has a few games to start, and see if it gets his motor running. Bring Dyce and JMax off the bench, and we will see who the main part of the PT should go to for the balance of the season, between DMC and JMax. See which one gets the job done better now and we can then concentrate on getting one of the two ready for the playoffs. We know Dale will be professional about it and be ready, but even when he is in there, he does not light anything up.

Our bigs that have the potential of lighting it up, besides Dyce, are between DMC and JMax, so we should find out which one SOON.

And it would give Ben time to heal for the rest of the season.

@Max - Good call on the Sonics. That was a team that used gimmick defenses.

@jzchen - I don't think it is the zone. I'm working on some numbers now and through tomorrow. The problems may not be defensive rebounding...

@lazy - you are kidding right? The problems are rebounding, hustle and energy plays. Starting DMC over Dice and Davis is not an option. I would start Davis with Sheed due to their past familiarity playing with one another, and promote Darko back to 4th big if Ben had to miss any time.

The last thing Darko needs is to be thrown into the water to see if he can swim. There is some very tough competition coming up...

Nope, I was not kidding in the least. Given 20-25 minutes, DMC would out rebound, out score, out block Dale in any given game.

And we "know" Dale will be ready but we need to get a decision between DMC and JMax by all-star break so we know who to concentrate on for the late season. Dale does not have enough of an impact on a game to depend on him for more than fill minutes.

If DMC knows that he is getting a chance to play, REALLY getting a chance to play, and has to fight off JMax to get the minutes, he should be ready. And if he is not, we should know it.

What would happen if this injury or whatever it is with Ben, does not straighten itself out by later in the season. We had better have someone else ready other than Dale Davis.

darko has done well in a starting role before. it's not like it's the nba finals or the knicks. i don't see why darko wouldn't do well. i agree lazy that darko and jmax are unknowns we need to get them on the floor and see what we have. no more 3 minute auditions when the game has been decided. ben's hurt he needs a few games and we will be going on a home stand. it's a great time to work in the youngsters.

Nope, I was not kidding in the least. Given 20-25 minutes, DMC would out rebound, out score, out block Dale in any given game.
You mean like when they say "any given Sunday" in football right? Like, "anything could happen"....

Right now, DMC can't outdo anyone except at blocks perhaps. He's not bringing 100% consistently. And like it or not, that is how it works. The player brings consistency, and then the minutes get consistent. Not the other way around.

If DMC knows that he is getting a chance to play, REALLY getting a chance to play, and has to fight off JMax to get the minutes, he should be ready. And if he is not, we should know it.
When he gets in an NBA regular season game, that is a REAL chance to play. It's a chance that thousands of us would kill for, even if we were abused by our opponent and completely humiliated.

If he hasn't clued in that he needs to fight off everyone for minutes by year 3, and that every moment on the court counts statistically, with the fans, his own self-esteem, justifying his paycheck, his value for future negotiations, Serbian pride, you name it, then this guy is a colassal bust.

What I am saying is, please eliminate the naivety. Darko is either overmatched, lazy or dumb. I'm sure you will prefer overmatched. I'm leaning towards lazy although a strong case could be made for dumb.

I'm thinking dumb. Nobody picked him because of his smarts.

Look at the box score. Benson was in the game for 13 minutes and didn't score at all. 1 rebound and 3 fouls.

I bet Darko could have put at least 1 point on the board in that game!

You mean like when they say "any given Sunday" in football right? Like, "anything could happen"....

Right now, DMC can't outdo anyone except at blocks perhaps. He's not bringing 100% consistently. And like it or not, that is how it works. The player brings consistency, and then the minutes get consistent. Not the other way around.

consistent effort like the starters last night??

i think dmc could easily outdo sheed in rebounds. he could outdo ben in points. outdo all the bigs minus sheed in assists. has mo evans brought consistency? has mcdyess brought consistency? this is a load of crapola. dmc's minutes are not a direct effect of his effort level. darko has many other factors that hinder his ability to get on the court.


When he gets in an NBA regular season game, that is a REAL chance to play. It's a chance that thousands of us would kill for, even if we were abused by our opponent and completely humiliated.

If he hasn't clued in that he needs to fight off everyone for minutes by year 3, and that every moment on the court counts statistically, with the fans, his own self-esteem, justifying his paycheck, his value for future negotiations, Serbian pride, you name it, then this guy is a colassal bust.

What I am saying is, please eliminate the naivety. Darko is either overmatched, lazy or dumb. I'm sure you will prefer overmatched. I'm leaning towards lazy although a strong case could be made for dumb.

i think darko is smarter than most of you think. his value for future negotiations is sky high anyway. he knows that even if he rots on the bench until the end of our contract he will still be a young 7' player with great upside. plenty of teams will be willing to sign him for a fat contract.

please eliminate the speed dating mentality. 60 seconds isn't always enough to show a woman what you are made of. 3 minutes in a game every other week isn't always enough to show what kind of basketball skills you have.

consistent effort like the starters last night??
Look pal, the starters have got this team to the best record in the league. That's a weak argument.

i think dmc could easily outdo sheed in rebounds. he could outdo ben in points. outdo all the bigs minus sheed in assists. has mo evans brought consistency? has mcdyess brought consistency? this is a load of crapola.
Evans and Dice bring consistency of effort, even if the results are not there. I'm not doubting that Darko is talented, he's just lazy.

I know you think Darko rescues kittens from trees on the off days. That he is busy brokering peace in the middle east between practices. There is nothing he can't do. :rolleyes:

i think darko is smarter than most of you think. his value for future negotiations is sky high anyway. he knows that even if he rots on the bench until the end of our contract he will still be a young 7' player with great upside. plenty of teams will be willing to sign him for a fat contract.
He's not so smart. He could get a max deal with a contender. He's blowing his own future. I don't think he will ever be a part of the Pistons future. Piston players "typically" have heart.

please eliminate the speed dating mentality. 60 seconds isn't always enough to show a woman what you are made of. 3 minutes in a game every other week isn't always enough to show what kind of basketball skills you have.
I dunno about you, but 60 seconds is plenty of time for me to show the ladies what I am made of. Again, not doubting his skill (or mine). I'm doubting his maturity, heart, effort and professionalism.

But taking the carrot you so graciously present, if Darko hasn't shown game yet, how can anyone justify propping this guy up? Has he given anything back for all of the faith?

According to today's Burning Questions by Chris McCoskey, (or as I like to call it, "The Flaming Hoop Column"), he's lost his spot with poor practices now. Flip's questioned his effort, and anyone without visual impairment can see that he is lost out there.

We need to get Davis involved, and maybe JMax as well to rest Ben. Until Darko can show the requisite desire and energy to play in the NBA, he should just keep dreaming about that FAT payday while he "rots" on the bench.

I dunno about you, but 60 seconds is plenty of time for me to show the ladies what I am made of.

So THAT'S why they call you the Microwave! My condolences to the missus.

DANG!!!!:hail:

I dunno about you, but 60 seconds is plenty of time for me to show the ladies what I am made of. Again, not doubting his skill (or mine). I'm doubting his maturity, heart, effort and professionalism.

I think the ladies might be looking for more than 60 seconds.:eyebrows: :laugh: :nod: .

Personally, I think that you can't count the first two years as part of the time when he should have realized that he had to fight off other players for PT. There was no way he was going to earn it. And this year, he was doing good work in Europe and in the pre-season, but it did not earn him a damned thing. I can see that he has regressed probably thinking that the team management feels the same way as you and quite a few of the posters feel, that he is a bust already.

And I think we need to have someone else ready ahead of Dale Davis. He is not an impact player any more, even if he used to be. Given that Dyce gets his act together, we have him for the late season as a big, but we need to get a decision as to whether Darko or JMax is going to be brought along for the latter part of the season, and if you would rather have a 6'5" center backing up a 6'7" center for the championship run, be my guest. I think we need to find out if DMC can fill the bill and if he cannot, get someone who can.

We should know by All Star Break, if we get out ass in gear now, and we will have a great chance that whatever is bothering Ben will be cleared up.

I am not naive about DMC; I just have more faith in his ability, but whichever of us is right, we need to find out by mid-season and set about correcting the situation.

I do not believe that we should keep him around for the future if he cannot contribute at least a constant ten minutes a game starting pretty damned soon. Going up against Miami, Indy and San Antonio with a couple of small forwards to play center will not do it, even if one of them is Ben. He just can do only so much when he is so overmatched, like with the Deisel and Zo.

I am sure you have arguments for all these points but that is how I feel about it. I don't want to wait for DMC to hit his mid-twenties to begin to get it together. He needs to get started or get traded.

So THAT'S why they call you the Microwave! My condolences to the missus.

:eek::pound:

@lazy, I want to be wrong. Unfortunately, every sign points to DMC having to be the one to take the next step.

Re: 60 second jokes. I was hoping someone caught that. Let's just say that I bring hustle and energy even in limited minutes. :P ROTFL

one big problem is this: http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051213/SPORTS03/512130355/1051

i just hope ben gets back to it this wednesday against sacramento.

I actually feel kind of sorry for you. You seem unable to appreciate the team's success thus far because all you care about is Darko. It's unfortunate.

When we're getting beaten on the glass, I promise you that Darko is not the answer. Rebounding and playing physical underneath are not his trademarks (regardless of what you think of him).

Dale Davis would be an appropriate response in situations like that, and I would like to see him get a bit more run to give Ben a rest, especially on the second night of back-to-backs. I think he's earned a shot at some minutes and can help us.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a Darko/Dale pairing. Their strengths (quickness & shotblocking + toughness & rebounding) might complement each other pretty well.

You just had to know we were not going to miss that 60 second joke.

I was born at night . . . but not LAST night :eyebrows: .

It was a 2nd of a back to back. And the coach seemed to forget this. The subs were doing just fine in the 2nd quarter, but he took them all out for the last five minutes of that quarter. Big mistake. Sure, we got a lead on some rediculously good shooting by Sheed, but the starters had nothing left for the 2nd half.

And then to compound things, Flip went back to his starters too early in the 4th quarter.

Go with the bench. If a particular individual blows an assignment and makes the whole bench look bad, take that player off the floor. Not all the bench players with him. What I see is over-reacting by Flip. Too worried his starters have to be out there. Like some kind of security blanket. Let the bench play. Let them flat out fail on occasion. Tinker with the bench. Work it. Get some use out of it.

This two game set was a good start for Flip. He did indeed go to his bench a lot in the first game of this back to back set. Just failed to carry the theme forward. We got more back to backs coming up real quick. Indeed, the next few games are all at minimum the 3rd game in 4 nights. In one case, it will be the 4th game in 5 nights. Flip is going to have to trust his bench. And play every last one of them until he finds something that works. He simply can't afford to keep overplaying his starters.

By the way, a thought occurred. We may have simply gotten off to such a great start because Flip played the bench so extensively in pre-season.

yeah got to go with you there. the starters got a good start, and when they struggled the bench got us comftarble again. when the bench struggled the starters got the big lead back, but flip did not go to the bench when the starters started to struggle again in the 3rd quarter. good sign was dice's jumper is coming back.

Alas, I was at the game.

"Are we in Utah yet"?
"No son, but in one more block we will be leaving the subdivision"

So 5 hours (and 35 "are we there yets" later) we arrive. Well, Salt Lake City is not what I expected. Basically, factories. Yuck. And lots of people walking around in Jed Clampett type black suits. The mormon churches are beautiful, naturally. The streets make no sense:

Mrs. Darth "We better ask directions"
Darth "No"
Mrs. Darth "Why not"
Darth "I don't think these people speak English"

So the hotel is 2 blocks from the Delta Center. We take the free trolley. The Delta Center is very nice. All lit up for Christmas. We walk in. They scan (don't tear) our stubs. Is this a new thing. Anyhow, some young blonde in an elf suit does it so I don't ask questions.

I am sporting my new red & blue Piston sweatshirt. My wife sports a Redwings jersey. My 7 year old son is wearing a sonics jersey and has colored his hair red, white & blue (my wife let him do this...not me). My daughter just wears whatever girls wear.

Some old usher comes up to me and says "Just one favor please don't beat us too bad today". I tell him "Its the last day of a road trip. It's gonna be tough". He then goes on about "Miller returning so the Jazz may do well" I'm wondering "who is Miller, but walk off hoping the blonde usher will stop me next. No such luck.

The Delta Center is just like the Palace inside, but somehow roomier. I liked it.

Star Spangled Banner. Chauncy is looking at the crowd. He points in our direction and whispers to Carlos Delfinos. Delfinos looks & nods. I'm pretty sure Chauncey spotted the blonde with the wings Jersey and the dork with the Pistons sweatshirt. I shoulda waved.

The game starts. Well, Pistons played not too good the first half but get a nice 13 point lead at the end because Sheed hit some 3's and Dice was scoring. Utah was missing everything. Balls bouncing in and out for Utah. The crowd was quiet. It was like they knew what was coming. Oh yeah, quite a few Pistons fans there...cheering.

2nd half. The Pistons forced some nice turnovers and it was like they were trying but they were slow. They could not hit a shot for their lives, starting with Sheed missing a 3 and everything bounced out. A couple of times big baskets were called off because the refs said the fouls occured before the shots. Both teams were arguing with the officials all game. Sheed got a foul (it looked to me like it was a Rip foul), and I thought he was gonna get thrown out. Ben got ticked too and caught a tech at a really bad time.

Every rebound there were a bunch of white dudes swarming (obviously not us). I'm telling you we handed them this game. If anyone on the team was hitting their shots the Pistons win. Memo hit that 3 in the 4th to put Utah up 5 and that did it. All of a sudden the crowd got loud.

The fans apparently attribute the win to owner Larry Miller being at the game (hence the ushers comments) Apparently, he got so upset with his team losing to New York on Nov 11th that he ranted at them and refused to return to watch them play at Delta Center. (He did this last year too).He also has accused Boozer of not wanting to play for the Jazz in the past, but has backed off that stance. Anyhow, he decided for whatever reason to go to the game and all the players talked about how this inspired them to victory. The papers there often referred to the Pistons as "the best team in the NBA".

At breakfast a man & his wife approached my table. I had on my sweatshirt, of course. "Thanks for the early Christmas present...we needed that". So anyhow, the fans were really happy they beat the best.

I was facing the pistons as they walked into the tunnel. They looked very angry and embarrassed at the same time. I really wished Flip would go to his bench earlier in the 3rd quarter that game, but knew he wouldn't because Utah cut 10 points off the lead so fast that Flip probably hoped to build it a bit before switching.

Again, they were playing like their heads were in a fog. Not like they didn't care, but like they thought they could just walk out & beat these guys. NOT. But again, the Jazz had 5 guys injured and aren't too good. If one bench guy or starter was hitting then we win. I mean 27 points in a half????

Oh ,almost forgot. I think I saw our very own Slippy at the game. Well, there was a dude with a Wallace Jersey and fake fro. I think it was slippy because he rooted for the Pistons but every time his fantasy guys scored (Kirlienko and Memo) his arm started to go up subconsciously in celebration and he fought to hold it down like the dude in Dr. Strangelove.

By the way Slippy. I love your new avatar (yoda) and your new name (Slippy's tater mashers). But beware my friend. Yesterday was Star Wars. Tonights fantasy flick is going to be "The Empire Strikes Back" Darth wins in that one if you recall.

Well, you know guys, I can't do the play by play recaps like Lanier fan (or even Lee),it's not my forte. So this is what you get with Darth. Crappy game but we had a ball.

Oh, did Ben even play? Yeesh he looked awful. Memo looked really good. Kirlienko hurt us too, but I think if the Pistons play their game he is easily neutralized. The crowd booed Arroyo and told him he sukkkked when he was out there. The Pistons all missed easy shots but they were from outside. They didn't get too many up close. Live by the jumper...die by the jumper. Overall, Flip's done great. No complaints from me & I like him better than Larry. However, this is one game I think they win with Larry because they looked undisciplined. Plus Larry always did magic with his timeouts. Flip didn't in this game at least.

OK, that's it for me. Over & out.

P.S. The Jazz dance squad is :nod: Darth will return.

i think dmc could easily outdo sheed in rebounds. he could outdo ben in points. outdo all the bigs minus sheed in assists.

i think darko is smarter than most of you think. his value for future negotiations is sky high anyway.


DMC could also make the best Pizza in the world. And join together with Bono to save Africa. Hit jumpshots from midcourt. Dominate in tennis. Write the great Serbian novel. Cure cancer. Talk to dogs.

Where does the unwaivering faith in this guy come from? I have been willing to give the kid a chance, and see how he develops, but... The guy doesn't even play. Why does everyone care so much about this kid?

:mad:

DMC could also make the best Pizza in the world. And join together with Bono to save Africa. Hit jumpshots from midcourt. Dominate in tennis. Write the great Serbian novel. Cure cancer. Talk to dogs.

Where does the unwaivering faith in this guy come from? I have been willing to give the kid a chance, and see how he develops, but... The guy doesn't even play. Why does everyone care so much about this kid?

:mad:

LOL. I think he could also tell us where Bin Laden is hiding. (Maybe they share the same barber)?

your still stuck in the past man, lb is not here anymore. flip gave the bench significant time last night and he will tonight so the starters will be effective. utah will need a lot to get past the pistons. what is weird is that the jazz are 5-4 on the road but only 3-8 at home.

uhmmm...Welcome to my "past"

I replied right after reading BBJays post (when will I learn?) and didn't bother to read the rest of the posts for the day. Looks like Micro covered it all before I did. And with style! I like the kitten part.

I have friend who has a theory that Darko really is a "special" kind of player, and thats why he has shown no progress, and seems to lack a fundamental understanding of the game.

The theory is based on the idea that Darko's agent, family, and translators were able to hide the fact from the Pistons based on the lanquage barrier.

Scout to Darko: So, why do you want to make the transition to the NBA, and what do you think you can offer the Pistons?

Darko to translator: I want to ride in a firetruck!

Translator to Ronzone: Darko believes that he can compete at the highest level. He looks forward to learning from the worlds best coaches, and contributing to a championship caliber team. Darko believes that he can immediatly contribute on defense and rebounding while learning the finer points of the American game.

Ronzone: That sounds great! Thank you for your time, we look forward to seeing you in workouts.

Darko: I like jello with my dinner.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=bkp.nbanotes&prov=st&type=lgns

TWO MINUTES: A spy with a long memory related to us an incident in Monday's Detroit-Utah game, which saw the Pistons peter out in the finale of a long road trip. Late in the contest, All-Star center Ben Wallace (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3149/) took a really hard foul on Jazz forward Jarron Collins (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3562/), who was going up for a dunk. The basket would have meant nothing, and Collins could have been seriously hurt. But Wallace simply was refusing to allow a layup. The sequence was eerily similar to the one that triggered last year's ugly brawl at The Palace. You may recall that began with Artest taking a foul on Wallace, who was already airborne for a layup. Wallace reacted to that foul by shoving Artest and chasing him across the court before other players intervened. Our spy reported that Wallace's foul on Collins was worse than the one Artest committed on Wallace, who seems to have to have it both ways. We maintained for months after the brawl that Wallace got a free pass from the media for his escalative actions because he has a reputation as a player who goes hard all the time and isn't the wingnut that Artest is. Giving hard fouls is fine; just expect it in return. ...
Competely ridiculous. I didn't remember any hard fouls late so I rewatched it and it is basically Ben just smacking the ball/Collins' hands from behind towards the basket. There's no way it could have caused an injury unless Collins' hands were made of peanut brittle or something. Calling it "eerie" or "ugly" is bizarre.

Waddaya wanna bet that this "spy" was Larry Bird? :nod:

There is a difference between a winning team fouling hard in a "done game" and a losing team maintaining some pride in a loss.