http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/SAC_832.gif http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/at.gif http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/DET_3079.gif

DEC 14th
7:30pm EST

TV: FSN Detroit
Radio: WDFN-AM 1130

http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/ben_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/rasheed_wallace.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/tayshaun_prince.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/richard_hamilton.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/pistons/chauncey_billups.jpg
VS
http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/kings/brad_miller.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/kings/shareef_abdur-rahim.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/kings/predrag_stojakovic.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/kings/bonzi_wells.jpg http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/kings/mike_bibby.jpg

http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/sac121405-1.png
http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/sac121405-2.png
http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/sac121405-3.png

Comments on this game?
~~~

ben wallace prediction: either he will sit on the bench for a while, or he will toughen it out and dod very good this game. i hope he does great on the offense to because he doesn't like the way he's in the offensive sets.

For those of you fortunate enough to be at the game tonight...GIVE BEN HIS DUE!

After reading the following article:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051214/SPORTS0102/512140305/1127

it's obvious he feels left out and under-appreciated in this new offense. And hack-a-Ben the other night probably didn't do much to bolster his psyche.

If you're there tonight...do your best to let him know the fans are behind him all the way. Hopefully Flip will let him know today that he is also behind him.

BUH-BUH-BUH BONZI WELLS!

* Ranks #8 in the NBA with 1.9 steals per game
* Has a reputation as a "Pistons killer". Generally plays well against the team that drafted him.
* Leads the Kings in rebounding from the 2 guard position at 7.8 per game, with 2.6 of those boards coming off the offensive glass.
* Averaging a career high 16 PPG in his first season with the Kings
* Unrestricted free agent at the end of this year.

Drafted #11 in 1998 by Detroit, never played a game in the Palace, was traded to Portland for a future first round pick. Former teammate of Rasheed Wallace during his TrailBlazer years.

What was the deal with Bonzi?

Maybe Mo can give him fits.

BUH-BUH-BUH BONZI WELLS!

* Ranks #8 in the NBA with 1.9 steals per game
* Has a reputation as a "Pistons killer". Generally plays well against the team that drafted him.
* Leads the Kings in rebounding from the 2 guard position at 7.8 per game, with 2.6 of those boards coming off the offensive glass.
* Averaging a career high 16 PPG in his first season with the Kings
* Unrestricted free agent at the end of this year.

Drafted #11 in 1998 by Detroit, never played a game in the Palace, was traded to Portland for a future first round pick. Former teammate of Rasheed Wallace during his TrailBlazer years.

he also hit the game winning 3 at the buzzer to beat the t-wolves yesterday 93-91. i hope ben does better than everyone else. usually i don't care as long as we get a win, but not this time.

I heard that Darko started.


Oh, never mind. I just fell off the roof of my 5 story motor home into a shark-filled swimming pool, down here in FL. Lost consciousness there for a while.


Never mind!!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/s.kluck/snapben.jpg
Yeah boyeeeee!

Ben injured though, hurt his hand/thumb.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/s.kluck/snapben.jpg
Yeah boyeeeee!

Ben injured though, hurt his hand/thumb.


Ben said the hell with these got rid of the goggles, he is playing with high energy tonight. No Long ugly socks either

No defense all perimeter shots going up, Sac is hitting all their shots. Open looks everywhere no D. Come on

Looks like Ben is back to his rebounding self. I'd like to see him get back to his top three block-rebound ranking.

I saw the Jazz loss and I was supposed to watch this one but they wouldn't let me at the place I usually watched so I followed it on gamecast. The loss was disheartening. NObody could hit shots and nobody could get a rebound but looking for them to bounce back again.

Anyway, looks like McDyess is finding some groove. Dang, Mo and Delfino, who should play more? I love Mo and his energy but there are times when we need Delfino's points and savvy. And Darko really lost himself in the rotation. How about trade him for an expiring contract? Hey maybe the Pacers would bite for Artest? Hehe, that is if they're planning on sabotaging the chemistry these Pistons have.

And Rip, great game along with Sheed and Tayshaun.

But Chauncey really brought it tonight. 28 points and 19 assists? WOW. Looks like my fantasy rankings will be way higher today.

:nod:

Wow. CB got 19 assists and 28 points. Rip 38 points. Rip came into the game at 51% shooting and did nothing at all to cool that stat off. And Ben got 17 boards despite suffering a badly strained thumb early in the game.

Dyess hit some more outside shots. He seems to like to first post up, against a defender, hit a shot, and then go a bit further out. Apparently, we have been getting him too wide open. Go figure.

Tay got some outside shots to fall, hardly noticeable amidst the fireworks by Rip and CB.

Shee did not seem to anything all that special either. Again, compared to all those firworks. But Sheed hit a bunch of triples tonight. What a starting lineup.

A certain announcer for us seems to have an agenda. Basically picking on Arroyo. Not fair. He missed the fact that against that zone, we did get several wide open shots. Just got missed. Now, if he wanted to pick on Arroyo's defense, that would be fair tonight, because Arroyo did do poorly on defense.

Evans had a good game in the 2nd half, but in the first half, he was out there with the subs while they could not score, partly because Evans himself missed a few shots, including a layup. And of course, Dyess was getting too wide open. Evans was not hitting his shots outside tonight but did do good defensively and on the boards.

Even though the bench did poorly tonight, its still good to see Flip go to it. We played 4 bench players with Ben out there. Hopefully, Flip will keep that up. By the way though, we still have never lost a game because of Darko playing in the 2nd quarter. Flip should go back to that too. Play the whole 2nd unit, as a five man unit. Let them get some chemistry together.

Carlos Delfino was the last bench player in in the 2nd quarter. And he got the ball to the basket twice. Nobody else was doing that. But out came Delfino with all the rest of the bench players. Overkill. Leave some of those bench players out there. Heck, put CB back in to kill the zone, but keep Dyess, Evans, and Delfino out there. We are in the midst of a killer stretch of games. Keep the bench out there. We should be ok for the moment, with a day off, at home, for the next game. No trip to make.

CB was knocking down triples. But they could not play up on him or he would drive in on them. Rip was just hitting one midranger after another. I bet of those 19 assists, at least 11 or 12 had to be to Rip hitting a mid-ranger. Talk about going to what is working.

Arroyo took one shot, a bit out of his range. Still good to see him working on extending his range though. He needs to shoot more long ones. In Utah when he was the starter for the year, Arroyo shot a respectable 33% from beyond the arc. That would help us in these type of games where the other team goes zone.

Back to Sheed. His 3 point shooting has been purely incredible this season. And he has in many games posted up the other team to death. And when Sheed gets a midrange shot to take, that goes down too. Full package. He even has been adding of late a move across the lane to go with those constant face up jumpers from the post.

Darko got 2 blocks in 2 minutes. Not bad.

Maxiell played a bit, nothing to mention. He missed a shot or two. The announcer mentioned that Maxiell has been really doing well in practice. Notice, this game was not quite a lock when Flip put the bench in with 2 minutes to go. He could have went conservative, and let CB go for his 20th assist. Just maybe the bench got in a bit there just to give Maxiell some floor time. Still have not seen Maxiell in the 2nd quarter. And since they played Corliss so much, man would I have liked to seen Maxiell guard Corliss. Who knows. Sacramento is not that bad a team. Yeah, next year. Hey, we are 16-3. Best record in the league. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Ben was just screwing around with the goggles. He didn't get poked in the eye. It was probably a way to show that he is still tight with Flip & crew.

Chauncey- one of the best regular season games he's ever had.
Rip- Some nights, he just gets it going.
Tay- Looks like he has exited the shooting slump. The pose after the jumpers is a pretty good sign.
Sheed- Just kicking %%%%%. On fire with the 3's. Rebounding hard. Passing great. And creating a lot of team unity with his personality.
BEN- Proving that he can will himself to All-star level whenever he has too. He had excess energy and spent half the night chasing Sac's guards when they were bringing the ball up. The energy resulted in some steals, blocks, and boards. And one sweet dunk on the feed from Rip.

Dyess- He's back to normal. The jumper is falling when it's contested. He is also rebounding very hard.

Mo Evans- Anybody notice how fast he gets down the floor when he sprints? Looks like he'd probably win the 40 yard dash on the Pistons. His 3's weren't connecting, and neither were his 2's, but he was still making a valuable contribution.

The rest of the guys- Not much one way or the other. Darko looked quick on the shot blocks. Delfino with some good aggressive rebounding.

Wow Chauncey with 28 and 19??!?:bounce:
Ben w/ 17 boards!:thumb:
Rip w/ 36 points!:faint2:

great game by the starters

Zone defense against our bench doesn't mix, other than that, Ben turned it up and shots were falling.

Wallace started the game wearing goggles, but ditched them midway through the first quarter.

"I'm having problems with my vision, I didn't want to get poked in the eye, it was doctor's orders," he said in a deadpan tone. "I thought the goggles brought the team a lot of energy. We all fed off the goggles."
Ben's a good quote.

If this were the playoffs, or a key, key game, I would worry. But the regular season is a showcase for offense. It is set up that way. If we didn't have a good offense this year, we would not be 16-3 even with better defense than we have shown because with travel and back to backs and all, any purely defensive team would wear out, especially ours that still does not use its bench. It bugs me to see people drive on us, but it is what it is. Its not the playoffs--a long ways away. What worries me is our bench. I love a block by Ben more than a three by Chauncey, but right now, let's get the wins in. Flip, please figure out the bench or Joe make a trade. Let's see Delfino. What are we to do about Darko?

Oh I missed his two blocks. SO looks like he definitely has that defensive edge to him but he has got to look like he wants to be in the game even when it's late in the fourth.

Wished we'd get a better look at him, Delfino, JMax, Acker and Johnson.

GO PISTONS!

remember when the team went 0-11 in the second quarter? but at the end we still shot 51%. sheed did great starting off the team and he finished with 19 and 8. Tay was quiet, but he did help the pistons get a good sized lead back when he heated up at the end of the second quarter, rip shot great finished with 36, ben is back he had 17 boards 4 blocks and 3 steals, but billups had 28 and 19, great job.

the only sad thing that it was antother weak game of our bench.
what's up with these goggles!?!?

Didn't get to see the game but what's up with Carlos Arroyo with no numbers and Evans with 0-7 shooting. Was either of them a factor in any way in the game?

I like them both, or at least Carlos, anyway. But nothing from either of them?

Bench blah blah blah
Darko blah blah blah


Ben was a monster (with gogs) and Billups ...OMG...I wish I had cable...and League pass...

We went over the flaws of this team last game. We can get back to it next time.

Ben was a monster (with gogs) and Billups ...OMG...I wish I had cable...and League pass...



I was listening to the game on the radio, and when Chauncey had 14 or 15 assists, I decided to go down to the corner bar to see the rest of the game.

I can tell you that assists 14 through 19 were completely effortless. It seemed like no matter what the defender did, Rip would get open, and chauncey would just make the perfect, flashy, effortless pass. The whole time he has a giant grin on his face.

I have nothing against Carlos Arroyo, but with Chauncey at 19 assists, Flip put Arroyo back in the game. The sportsfans went crazy. I guarantee you if Chauncey had played one more minute, He would have had 20 assists!

Anyway, it was a great show.
:pop2:

he should have left him in. Its like giving a guy the opportunity to do something special.

20/20 has such a nice ring to it.

what would be rad is if someone did a short video of the 19 assists from that game. :eyebrows:

It is much more "Pistons" to leave the game with 19 than to stay in garbage time to get 20.

This way, nobody discounts it. Nothing worse than forcing stats.

It's Barry Sanders style.

Part of me also wanted the 20 assists, but it's a slippery slope. We've always talked about how stats don't matter.

Before long, you start missing shots at the other team's basket so that you can rack up a triple-double.

Part of me also wanted the 20 assists, but it's a slippery slope. We've always talked about how stats don't matter.

Before long, you start missing shots at the other team's basket so that you can rack up a triple-double.
Yeah, I would hate to see the Pistons become stat-whores... However, it's not like Chauncey was tryin to pad his stats. The Kings just could not stop
Batman and Robin out there. Another 30 seconds. One more possession...

To add to that, we also have the injury factor to consider. It would've been devastating to see Chauncey go down to a serious injury in meaningless garbage time just trying to tally one more feed.

It definitely was a good idea to get him off the floor, no matter how good it would've looked having that big 20 number in the assist column.

I agree with Zoso about the injury. But at the same time, I think its unfair to put our visions of Piston ism on the players. I know they're team players committed to a championship but they're players too and it might mean something to them to do something special once in a while. The includes playing in an all star game or getting selected to the olympic team.

I agree with Zoso about the injury. But at the same time, I think its unfair to put our visions of Piston ism on the players. I know they're team players committed to a championship but they're players too and it might mean something to them to do something special once in a while. The includes playing in an all star game or getting selected to the olympic team.

Or scoring 28 while dropping 20 dimes in one game!

I agree with Zoso about the injury. But at the same time, I think its unfair to put our visions of Piston ism on the players. I know they're team players committed to a championship but they're players too and it might mean something to them to do something special once in a while. The includes playing in an all star game or getting selected to the olympic team.

Individual stats are nice, but we've got the big picture to look at here.

Let's say, Billups stays in, gets the 20th feed, then 10 seconds later, before Flip has a chance to get him out, he blows his knee out and he's done for the year. Just like that our hopes to regain the title are gone. And for what? A meaningless assist, that in hindsight is worth nothing more than some bragging rights. Then of course, everyone and their mother will be on here screaming on just why he was allowed to be left in the game to get a meaningless stat.

You know it and I know it.

If it were me playing professional ball, I wouldn't care less about being in an All-Star game. I'd rather have that time off to rest.

Unless of course, I played for Atlanta or Charlotte. Then that would be a different story altogether. :)

However, it's not like Chauncey was tryin to pad his stats.

I think if you listened to Flip's interview after the game you would realize Chauncey was trying to pad his stats, at least right at the end. He knew he was coming out so those last two assists were off of very quick shots by Rip. When Flip was asked if he was aware that Chauncey was having a career night for assists, he said..."not until Chauncey told me.."

It's not like a Ricky Davis-trying-to-get-a-triple-double-miss-on-purpose type of thing but Chauncey was trying to rack up more assists.

. When Flip was asked if he was aware that Chauncey was having a career night for assists, he said..."not until Chauncey told me.."

Lesson: Don't tell the coach you are padding your stats.

Zoso, I hear ya. And if Chauncey would have been hurt all hell would break lose. But, He could have been hurt at assist number 15. or assist number 12... Not really an arguement from me. I see your point. But I also see the point of personal accolades for a seriously good team player.

It's not like a Ricky Davis-trying-to-get-a-triple-double-miss-on-purpose type of thing but Chauncey was trying to rack up more assists.
There's no doubt about it. And that's exactly why, once he found out he was nearing that 20 mark, he started calling Hamilton's number.

This from A.S. Blakely's piece today;

So Billups did the only thing that made sense (once Arroyo told him how many assists he had): he started calling plays for Richard Hamilton, who had a game-high 36 points.
"I know he'll shoot," Billups said.
All in all, he was just doing what everyone else would've done, being in the same position. :nod:

Zoso, I hear ya. And if Chauncey would have been hurt all hell would break lose. But, He could have been hurt at assist number 15. or assist number 12... Not really an arguement from me. I see your point. But I also see the point of personal accolades for a seriously good team player.

But, I'm sure if he would've gotten hurt getting assists numbers 12 or 15, it wouldn't have been in a situation where he was left in the game during garbage time trying to do so.

I'm just a firm believer, especially on a championship contending team like this one, that once the game is in hand, get your horses off the floor. It's just not worth the risk having your best player on the floor when the outcome is already determined.

I have no problem with racking up personal stats. It's all part of having fun. But, just as long as it comes within the flow of the game and not in a situation where someone has no business being on the floor.

Let's not make too much of it. It's still a game, guys, still play. Jump up and touch the highest mark, out-do your buddies for bragging rights, push the limit and see what you can do just for the hell of it. Let them have fun once in a while. Unlikely Chauncey will let it go to his head when he's got an MVP trophy and world championship belt in his den.

Of more importance is that we have developed an unstoppable gaurd combo under Flip's system... no matter what the defense does they can't work thru that extra pick to slow down Rip (as long as he remembers to pass off a switch)... no matter how tight they play Chauncey they can't deal with his versatility of spotting up or taking it inside.
Flip's next task will be to achieve similar consistency from Sheed and Tayshaun... with Rip & C.B. already hitting their stride it's time to give more looks to the 3rd and 4th options... if they become near automatic, then it's lights out... Both players can post up 90+ % of their opponents.... Tay's posting should be more of a cutting across the lane and timing the inlet pass inside (vs power posting).
Sheed needs a lot of practice with perfecting his inside moves.

I don't know if Ben's frustration is contract related (numbers dropping)... but there really should be several more ways to get him into the offensive flow... there isn't a big out there that could stay with Ben cutting off a pick for an uncontested slam.... maybe a couple more lobs here and there etc.

Of more importance is that we have developed an unstoppable gaurd combo under Flip's system... no matter what the defense does they can't work thru that extra pick to slow down Rip (as long as he remembers to pass off a switch)... no matter how tight they play Chauncey they can't deal with his versatility of spotting up or taking it inside.

It's getting kind of like days of old.

It's getting kind of like days of old.

But we still need our Vinnie-like player.

Seriously, that's what we really need. When the bad boys hit a funk, you always could count on 007. Today, if Billups or one of the other 5 don't get it done, we are pretty much history.

Remember what Arroyo did for us in that game against Indy? That's what we need from someone off the bench. Hell, Dice almost pulled us through against San Antonio. Horry DID do it for San Antonio.

We can keep our starters. We aren't getting KG without mortgaging the farm anyhow.

We need one guy off the bench who can light it up. Lindsey can spark the D. We need someone who will be our new Microwave. If he is already on the team, Flip needs to play him. If not, please make a trade, Joe.

But we still need our Vinnie-like player.

Seriously, that's what we really need. When the bad boys hit a funk, you always could count on 007. Today, if Billups or one of the other 5 don't get it done, we are pretty much history.

Remember what Arroyo did for us in that game against Indy? That's what we need from someone off the bench. Hell, Dice almost pulled us through against San Antonio. Horry DID do it for San Antonio.

We can keep our starters. We aren't getting KG without mortgaging the farm anyhow.

We need one guy off the bench who can light it up. Lindsey can spark the D. We need someone who will be our new Microwave. If he is already on the team, Flip needs to play him. If not, please make a trade, Joe.

Yep. Maybe Delfino will begin to deliver the goods Joe D advertized.