Let's put aside the Darko talk (if possible) in this thread.

Orlando is more likely than Detroit to finish higher in the NBA Draft next season but they showed some serious game late last season..

Of course, we get Orlando's pick in what is being called a VERY deep draft. Providing they do not end up with a top 5 selection in the lottery.

And that pick can be used as a trading chip with the Pistons own pick to move up even more, possibly looking to grab a franchise big man.

So do you really think the Magic will make the playoffs and get us a middle of the road pick? Or do you think their late season run was a mirage and the Magic's winning spell will be cancelled.

I think they snag the 7-8 seed.

Hard to judge right now. Some teams get on a hot streak during part of the season and their decent look can be a ruse as some teams could have taken the Magic for granted down the stretch and shut down their intensity during those last 15 games giving the Magic false hope.

I know they beat Pistons, Heat and I think the Mavs, during that late stretch but I still think they are a team that finshes right out of the top 16 playoff teams. Maybe they can grab the 8th seed if an injury takes out a key player on one of the "pretenders"

So do you really think the Magic will make the playoffs and get us a middle of the road pick? Or do you think their late season run was a mirage and the Magic's winning spell will be cancelled.

I think they are going to have a nice team. We should get a middle of the road pick. If anything, I'm afraid they will do a little bit too well. I think they will make the bottom end of the playoffs, but if not, they won't have many lottery balls although they have a history of getting "lucky" in the lottery, if I recall :rolleyes:.

I'm rolling my eyes because I honestly wonder if the lottery is fixed since they do it in such secrecy. Makes no sense to me.

Anyhow, they had a nice run at the end. Darko and Arroyo are fitting in really well and Howard is awesome. They've had all summer to compliment what they had at the end of last year with new talent.

We should get a decent pick... for Joe to mess up.

Let's put aside the Darko talk (if possible) in this thread.

Orlando is more likely than Detroit to finish higher in the NBA Draft next season but they showed some serious game late last season..

Of course, we get Orlando's pick in what is being called a VERY deep draft. Providing they do not end up with a top 5 selection in the lottery.

And that pick can be used as a trading chip with the Pistons own pick to move up even more, possibly looking to grab a franchise big man.

So do you really think the Magic will make the playoffs and get us a middle of the road pick? Or do you think their late season run was a mirage and the Magic's winning spell will be cancelled.

I think Orlando will make the playoffs, almost a lock if DHoward, Darko, and Jameer improve their games from last year and JJ Redick can do anything. Especially Darko, which would allow Orlando to bring, a former starter, Battie off the bench along with Arroyo, Ariza, and Redick.

Which leaves Detroit with two picks in the 20's, in a deep draft. Have a feeling Joe will trade one, if not both of them, especially if there is an opportunity to move up. Though Joe has to be a little gun shy about the draft, he has either drafted guys who suck or guys that his coaches refuse to play. It would be nice to see Joe draft a guy with talent that the coach also wants.

Darkhorse, tinfoil hat, trade prediction: Rip and the Orlando pick to the Bobcats and move up into the top 5 to grab a bigman. Rip's contract is cheap (relatively speaking), the bobcats are cheap, and the Pistons are cheap. Also Jordan may be regretting the the Rip trade.

I think the pick should be in the 6-10 range. Orlando isn't a playoff team yet.

Orlando has a very good team... 3 players who will be in the Olympics (how many NBA teams can say that?)

Turkoglu is awesome. Nelson is too. And enough has been said about DHo.

Also, they really gelled in the last 1/3 of the season last year. Making the NBA playoffs means that you have to break .500. The pace that they won last year after 1) dumping Stevie Franchise 2) getting Nelson back from injury, and 3) grabbing the victory cigarl and Carlitos was almost the best winning % in the NBA. I don't know why they wouldn't be able to maintain a breakeven record.

They have too many point guards and too many Centers... while the pistons have too many shooting guards and power forwards.

I think the pick should be in the 6-10 range. Orlando isn't a playoff team yet.

Sounds about right to me. They have quite a bit of talent, but they are still young and inexperienced. If they can keep the team together and continue to improve, they may be a real force in the future.

The pick is top-5 protected for 2007, and completely unprotected for 2008. So how likely is the 2008 scenario?

The Magic would have to miss the playoffs, and then either move up in the draft lottery to grab one of the top three picks (against long odds for the better lottery teams), or be so wretched that they have a top-5 pick without moving up in the lottery. Both of these possibilities seem unlikely given that they had the eleventh-worst (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standings?season=2006&group=league&column=winPercent&order=true&seasontype=2) record in the league this past season, and everyone expects them to improve this year.

I don't see much chance that the pick will turn out to be higher than 10 or so, but in a deep draft you might get really lucky at 10.

Orlando missed the playoffs by 4 games last year.

They had a stretch mid-season where they went 2 and 19.

Late in the year, they had a 12 and 1 stretch.


It was a completely different team because of trades and injury. Don't base your expectations on last year's overall record.

Orlando has a very good chance of making the playoffs this season.

I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'll see either Darko or Ben in the first round of the playoffs.

There seems to be a significant weakness on their perimeter defense... I believe teams will have no problem getting inside on the Magic..... unfortunately they will be hard to score on inside... particularly posting up.
They can be beaten if teams will penetrate and look for the extra pass... basically taking advantage of the two heads over aggressiveness.
I see the Magic as a team that gives away a lot of FT's.
The Magic should be a high scoring squad.
This is a tough team to predict... I'll go with the high side and say we end up with a pick between 15-18

orlando will definitely make the playoffs. they barely missed it last year. they have had a summer to improve. darko showed a definite improvement from what he was providing at the end of the year when they went on thier run. his confidence level is where he improved most and that's just dangerous for teams in the nba. he's going to play starter minutes and provide starter type production. arroyo ripped the world championships and can carry the team from pg if jameer goes down. turkoglu is solid at the 3 last year he looked like he was having a breakout season. dwight howard is just a beast and he's improving over the summer too. jameer is great. their only weakness is at shooting guard. if jj can stand at the 3 point line and drop 3 pointers from dwight and darko orlando will be dangerous.

grant hill hasn't retired yet either. grant healthy for 40 games will make them a guaranteed playoff team.

i'm not worried about the draft pick. i'm worried about meeting this team in the first round of the playoffs. especially if they saved grant for the playoffs like we save lindsey for them.

I forgot about Grant Hill. They should think about playing him every other game or so. He obviously can't take a full NBA season.

SportingNews.com - NBA - Darko critics soon might see the light (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=122182)

Let's put aside the Darko talk (if possible) in this thread.

SportingNews.com - NBA - Darko critics soon might see the light (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=122182)

:pound: Nice try Roscoe! It can't be done.:frusty:

BTW TaShawn that was a great article about Darko!:)

It seems to me that whether or not Darko gets the starting nod over Tony Battie, whichever of them comes off the bench leading a very strong second unit makes them very deep.

Say Darko, Dwight, Hedo, Jameer and Bogans start, the second unit will consist of Tony, Grant, JJ, Carlos, and Ariza. Still be heard from would be Dooling who played a lot last year, James Augustine who has a full four year Big Ten career behind him, Travis Deiner, Bo Outlaw, and Garrity. Some of these will not be on the main roster, but I believe they are available. Garrity might be gone.

Their only soft spot might be the need for another big to get some minutes. Augustine and Bo might be able to fill that need. Also Hedo is 6'10".

Grant Hill should come off the bench to make sure he can play more as the season progresses. If and when healthy, he is still their best all-around player.

Depending on whether Grant can play through season, albeit in a smaller role, I can see them as the 5th seed, and if that good, why not the 4th? It would be good for them to get home court.

The other teams in the East have questions, too. How do we know that Chicago will jell; Indy will be kind of disjointed; in the late surge last year, the Magic beat Detroit, totally clobbered Cleveland, beat Miami, Dallas, Utah and other good teams who were still trying to better their position.

I think the team chemistry is already very good with the Magic and the summer's work in the worlds will help. I think they are ready to make a move into the play-offs, if not ready yet to come out of the East.

It is early to tell, but now is when the question was asked, wasn't it?

I don't think that Tony Battie would have carried the Serbian National team in the FIBA championships.

However, he is a good player to have on the Magic team. Maybe a bit overpaid, but that is what you have to spend for mediocre veteran big men.

:pound: Nice try Roscoe! It can't be done.:frusty:

BTW TaShawn that was a great article about Darko!:)
Don't blame me.

Forget Orlando's record from last year, and look at the team at the end of the year going into next. A solid starting 5, with a legit superstar center. Then throw in a solid bench. No reason this team can't win 48-50 games and be a 5 or 6th seed.

BTW, from a translation of a translation of Orlando's assistant GM on realGM, this is how Orlando plans on using Darko and Dwight next year:

DT: I love Darko. He helped us a lot when he came here from Detroit. I am glad to see that he is enjoying the Basketball. With us, he has a great opportunity, because he will get a lot of playing time.

B92: In our country, lot of people talk about his role on a team. Some people think he takes too many shots and that he is much better at Center?

DT: In Orlando, Darko plays pure 4. I don't mind him shooting from outside, he is a able of doing many different things on the court. If needed, he can go inside. He is quick and he thinks fast. Dwight at Center and Darko at PF is our frontline and we will build around that in years to come.

No speak of B. Hill here. He's got a lot of chemistry to brew.
He finally got it right late last year.
I'll take picks 19, 20 or 21 or worse.

B. Hill really looks like a shmuck, but he may be a good coach. I'm just not totally convinced right now.

He really let Dwight Howard, Darko, and Ariza play through some mistakes.

Brian Hill was terrible with a somewhat talented Vancouver team. I don't think he is an elite coach without a young Shaq.

I was thinking about this... wouldn't NBA basketball be the easiest sport to coach in pro sports?

If you threw one of us in charge of the Heat next year, how bad would they do? You just tell them to do their thing and you take em out when they look tired.

If you put one of us in charge of the Lions, they proabably would go 0-16. It would be a total disaster of bad plays, illegal substitutions, missing players, etc.

Football has got to be the toughest. Probably follow that up with baseball, hockey, and bball in that order.

That is why I'm not sure whether B. Hill is good or not. Need more data.

I disagree. Talent alone is not enough to win in the NBA. You need to have a cohesive team effort with talent.

The Magic are gathering a lot of talent, but I am not sure Brian Hill is a solid team builder. Xs and Os are not enough. Compare Don Nelson to Avery Johnson.

Brian Hill was terrible with a somewhat talented Vancouver team. I don't think he is an elite coach without a young Shaq.

Maybe he has a young Shaq.

And in some ways, he is smarter than Larry Brown :confused::ohwell: :eyebrows: :thumb:.

I could coach the Lions to 8 and 8
I got ideas.

Maybe he has a young Shaq.

And in some ways, he is smarter than Larry Brown :confused::ohwell: :eyebrows: :thumb:.

I don't know if I'd call Dwight Howard a young Shaq even though he has been mightily impressive. I had him on my fantasy team and his rebounds were obscene but man Shaq was something special. I'm thinking just missing the playoffs again...only due to a pair of injuries. they lost some depth i thought. I am not looking for jj to be that great this year.

@lazy - Dwight Howard could be really good, but he's no Baby Shaq. I would advise looking for some highlight's of O'Neal in his first 3 years. He was an absolute terror in the league.

I was thinking about this... wouldn't NBA basketball be the easiest sport to coach in pro sports?

If you threw one of us in charge of the Heat next year, how bad would they do? You just tell them to do their thing and you take em out when they look tired.


I assume that you're just talking about the 2 hours of in-game coaching that we see on TV and not the pre-game coaching, half-time adjustments and talk, post-game discussions, practices, individual workouts, videotape analysis, scouting, pre-season, etc.?

You don't think there is any prep work for other sports too?

If it were only in-game managing, I would say baseball is the easiest.

I think managing the egos in the NBA would be tough. If Shaq told me he wanted to check into the game with 4 fouls in the 2nd quarter, I'd say "Go ahead, big fella".

I agree in-game decisions in the NFL would be the most challenging.

I don't think a whole lot of coaching goes on during an NHL game.

There is lots of strategy by a manager in a close National League baseball game.

It's a fun topic, irregardless.

The lesson of this playoffs is that coaching matters.

The lesson of this playoffs is that coaching matters.

You think Pat Riley vs. Avery Johnson was the difference in the NBA Finals?

Oh, yeah, roscoe36. I don't have to look back at outtakes of Shaq. I remember it well. I was such a Piston fan that I did not like him, but I do realize what a power he was.

His favorite thing in those days was trying to tear down any rims that he could, and he was successful quite often in doing that. He delayed many a game while new bankboards were installed, and cost sponsors many a buck.

He was special and right from the start, he got special treatment. He ran over so many people they started stationing motorcycle cops around the floor :pound:.

In size, Dwight will not compete with Shaq, and I hope he does not get that big and cumbersome. He is, I believe, 7' 275, right now and I do not want him much bigger. Same for Darko. He is about 7 and a half inch, which is OK to increase a little, but I would not like to see him much over the 250 or 255 he is now.

Oh, yeah, roscoe36. I don't have to look back at outtakes of Shaq. I remember it well. I was such a Piston fan that I did not like him, but I do realize what a power he was.

His favorite thing in those days was trying to tear down any rims that he could, and he was successful quite often in doing that. He delayed many a game while new bankboards were installed, and cost sponsors many a buck.
From YouTube, here's some property damage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySyhumskZ1Q).

To me, far more impressive was the quickness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pvq0QvkksQ) of early Shaq.

Of course I do. Riley made that team worse on paper then beat us. Riley kept two teams out of the paint in 7-game series with Antoine Walker and Jason Williams in the starting lineup. Everybody's talking about the new rules BS, but the above is pretty remarkable. And that's not even counting how different our team was in the playoffs -- how we went from a defensive monster with a knack for crunch-time execution to a sieve and a crunch-time turnover factory. How we went from more than the sum of our parts to less, how last year's adversity was handled privately and productively and how this year's became a public %%%%%fest...

Of course I do. Riley made that team worse on paper then beat us. Riley kept two teams out of the paint in 7-game series with Antoine Walker and Jason Williams in the starting lineup. Everybody's talking about the new rules BS, but the above is pretty remarkable. And that's not even counting how different our team was in the playoffs -- how we went from a defensive monster with a knack for crunch-time execution to a sieve and a crunch-time turnover factory. How we went from more than the sum of our parts to less, how last year's adversity was handled privately and productively and how this year's became a public %%%%%fest...

i don't think riley was the difference in the pistons series. i think flip was coaching handicapped. his best move that series would have been to give ben wallace limited minutes. riley simply didn't check ben so whoever was checking ben basically played zone. that destroyed rips curls, tay's and cb post up game and ben's confidence. late in games when riley didn't want us to score he would just foul ben and that's basically a turnover. also you couldn't defend wade under the new rules especially with the malcontent refusing to give effort on the zone defense.

Riley was the difference for the Heat period. In all 4 rounds.

He's a master motivator along the same lines of Phil Jackson. Motivating and teaching was something that Daddy Rich did well also.

i'll say 6-10

I say 15-20 range.If this is the deepest draft in recent years so they say,whoever they are.We move up or we add 2 pieces for the future that can come in and impact or spend valuable time playing in the D-league. Adding for the future while trying to win now.As long as we don't take on full rebuild or drop too many steps backward.

You read it first here.

The Magic will make the playoffs this year.

They have awesome young talent and will move up fast this year.

Let's look at who they have to beat to be one of the top 8 teams in the conference.

Playoff Locks:
Miami
Detroit
Cleveland
New Jersey

No Playoff Locks:
Charlotte
Toronto
Atlanta

Fighting for 4 Spots:
-Top Tier-
Chicago
Washington

-Bubble-
Indiana
Milwaukee
Philadelphia
Boston
Orlando
New York

The Magic are certainly in the mix, but it's gonna be a dog fight to keep your head above the rest of the teams fighting for the last four playoff spots. The Magic may not have the maturity to do it just yet.

If I were betting, I'd say "no playoffs for Orlando this year."

Let's look at who they have to beat to be one of the top 8 teams in the conference.

Playoff Locks:
Miami
Detroit
Cleveland
New Jersey

No Playoff Locks:
Charlotte
Toronto
Atlanta

Fighting for 4 Spots:
-Top Tier-
Chicago
Washington

-Bubble-
Indiana
Milwaukee
Philadelphia
Boston
Orlando
New York

The Magic are certainly in the mix, but it's gonna be a dog fight to keep your head above the rest of the teams fighting for the last four playoff spots. The Magic may not have the maturity to do it just yet.

If I were betting, I'd say "no playoffs for Orlando this year."
4 open spots, Ben could be Subtraction by addition with Chicago, Washington is going backwards, Indy will make the playoffs, Milwaukee is treading water, Phily backwards, Boston is improving, Orlando and NY will be the suprises.

By my logic, 5 locks (adding Indy), Chicago, Orlando, NY, Boston, and Washington favorites for the remain 3 spots. Milwaukee and Philly are lottery dreaming.

BTW, my prediction, Orlando, NY, and Boston will fill out the last 3 spots. Orlando will be in the top 4 in the East, NY and Boston squeaking in over Chicago.

It is really early, even before pre-season, but I will join the prognosticators. As you all know I go by feel and heart, not by stats:

1. Cleveland - Miami is just too old; the Cavs are only a little better than
2. Detroit - Only slightly behind the Cavs and better than
3. Miami - They could drop like a rock if they do not get a lot of luck
4. N. J. - is on the decline but may be slightly better than the Magic; This could flip-flop.
5. Orlando - with a little luck could pass N. J.
6. Indianapolis - they always find a way to fail due to injuries, etc
7. Chicago - Just don't see Ben making a good difference there
8. Washington - will sneak in ahead of Milwaukee and Phillie.

The entire East is better so I don't look for any clubs to run off huge winning streaks or big leads in games won. The whole East will be pretty close for a big part of the season.

I feel that Miami's window is slamming shut. Cleveland and Detroit are something of the cream of the East, but I also place a lot of credence on the Magic's late surge. They lost games until they absorbed the new players and then beat quite a few of the best teams, all of whom were still playing hard for seed positions. They creamed Cleveland and had good wins against S.A., Utah, and Detroit, to name just a few.

Sorry but your list seems very.... interesting. I See the east more like this.

Miami- Dwayne Wade is enough even if Shaq is on the decline
Detroit- Still the best team in central
Cleveland- If Lebrons supporting cast pans out
New Jersey- Carter, Kidd, Jefferson, enough said
Chicago- Better team w/Ben
Washington- Gilbert is playing with a vengeance
Indiana- No Artest Drama
Bucks- Villanueava

No predictions this year... last years predictions were documented and not acted on... sorry

I can understand thinking that Chicago still has the same problems with Ben or with Chandler, but, 16 mile, addition by subtraction? That's different. Why you think this?

Sorry but your list seems very.... interesting. I See the east more like this.

Miami- Dwayne Wade is enough even if Shaq is on the decline

wade got exposed in fiba games. he may not be the nba sweetheart anymore. he may have to play by the regular rules.

Detroit- Still the best team in central

agree if flip plays the bench.

Cleveland- If Lebrons supporting cast pans out

they won't

New Jersey- Carter, Kidd, Jefferson, enough said

all will be injured

Chicago- Better team w/Ben

better at what?? ben brings ego to the team. i wonder if skiles will make sure ben gets his shots.

Washington- Gilbert is playing with a vengeance

never met a shot he didn't like. he isn't enough

Indiana- No Artest Drama

same city will find new excuses for not winning. it's time to blow it up

Bucks- Villanueava
lost tj


orlando will by the end of the season either have arguably the best starting 5 in basketball in jameer, grant hill, hedo, darko* and dwight or do a major trade with grant's contract to push them over the hump into the playoffs. i have them all the way up to the 2 seed as a possibility. they were opening plenty of cans on people at the end of the season and it wasn't fluke games.

But why were they so bad for most of the season? Arroyo and Darko did not add that much.

I think they just got hot.

I see them with deficiencies at the point, SG, SF and Center. Nelson is not really a point, Tukoglu is not that good ( just got extremely hot for that period ), Hill will not last the season and Darko has a long way to go.

ORL will not make the playoffs but they will win just enough to give us a 10+ type pick.

But why were they so bad for most of the season? Arroyo and Darko did not add that much.

I think they just got hot.

I see them with deficiencies at the point, SG, SF and Center. Nelson is not really a point, Tukoglu is not that good ( just got extremely hot for that period ), Hill will not last the season and Darko has a long way to go.

ORL will not make the playoffs but they will win just enough to give us a 10+ type pick.

Max, from what I have gleaned from reading the forums over there are several things. One, Darko, Arroyo, and Ariza DID add quite a lot. Two, the trade of the previous point guard (can't think of his name right now) lifted a real weight off the shoulders of the team as a whole. Three, they filled major holes with Carlos, Darko, and Ariza. The trades opened Dwight up to do more damage and Carlos gave them great minutes off the bench, bringing the crowd of Latinos into the game.

They have only one hole now, that of the 2 guard. There are those who believe JJ will fill it and they have added Bogans as well. And you will not convince them that Hedo is not that good.

You can't tell the Magic fans that Jameer is not a true point guard and there are some who think Carlos is the cat's pajamas, as well. They have a deep bench and even the question marks like Augustine and JJ could be solved. James should be able to play limited minutes and they are both experienced 4 year major college vets. JJ is very possibly the additional 3 point threat they have been needing. And with Hedo and Trevor, Grant might not play long minutes and therefore might last the entire season. And with Darko, Dwight and Carlos coming into the season with major accomplishments during the summer, they might hit the ground running.

The fans down in Florida believe in the coming twin towers rebirth. I bet you might admit that they have some scary potential. Just a couple of injuries on other East teams might let Orlando climb.

There are other things as well, but this is a Piston forum, so I will shut up. But I think with the changes in the Pistons and in the Magic, this will be a season I might really enjoy. I think they will both be interesting to watch.

Two, the trade of the previous point guard (can't think of his name right now) lifted a real weight off the shoulders of the team as a whole.
lazy, you're great. Many of us would like to forget Steve "Stevie Franchise" Francis' name. Thanks for the laugh. :)

There are other things as well, but this is a Piston forum, so I will shut up.
It's good to have multiple perspectives. Don't stop. :thumb:

Chicago- Better team w/Ben


You can't be sure of that yet. Tyson Chandler was very big and that helped Chicago as well. Tyson may not have been a good offensive player, but at least he can consistantly grab a ball of a pick and roll and dunk and make more than 25% of his free throws. Don't be surprised if Ben doesn't have too great of a year.

Max, from what I have gleaned from reading the forums over there are several things. One, Darko, Arroyo, and Ariza DID add quite a lot. Two, the trade of the previous point guard (can't think of his name right now) lifted a real weight off the shoulders of the team as a whole. Three, they filled major holes with Carlos, Darko, and Ariza. The trades opened Dwight up to do more damage and Carlos gave them great minutes off the bench, bringing the crowd of Latinos into the game.

They have only one hole now, that of the 2 guard. There are those who believe JJ will fill it and they have added Bogans as well. And you will not convince them that Hedo is not that good.

You can't tell the Magic fans that Jameer is not a true point guard and there are some who think Carlos is the cat's pajamas, as well. They have a deep bench and even the question marks like Augustine and JJ could be solved. James should be able to play limited minutes and they are both experienced 4 year major college vets. JJ is very possibly the additional 3 point threat they have been needing. And with Hedo and Trevor, Grant might not play long minutes and therefore might last the entire season. And with Darko, Dwight and Carlos coming into the season with major accomplishments during the summer, they might hit the ground running.

The fans down in Florida believe in the coming twin towers rebirth. I bet you might admit that they have some scary potential. Just a couple of injuries on other East teams might let Orlando climb.

There are other things as well, but this is a Piston forum, so I will shut up. But I think with the changes in the Pistons and in the Magic, this will be a season I might really enjoy. I think they will both be interesting to watch.

Orlando fans always think they will have a great team ( no offense ).

I like Arroyo but he is not exactly going to get you over the top. Besides they are trying to develope Nelson. Nelson is short even for points these days, had almost 5 APG last year.

Its a raw young team. I know many poster here seem to like them, I just think they have some developement to do and there are many other teams better than them at this point.

The Magic are like a magnet... don't want to watch but next thing ya know you're sittin there analyzing this team.
This team has two major weaknesses... their perimeter defense is worse than the Pistons... and they have very few true athletes which means they can be beat in transition... they will foul quicker players.
You don't want to get in a half court game with them... this lets the shot blockers set up.
So far Howard has not allowed them to be exposed much in transition with his high % shooting and offensive rebounds.
Gotta press this team as they are a league leader in T.O.'s
I'm hoping teams will soon pick up on ways to beat them.

The more I watch the Magic, the more that I think their high FG% and turnovers are correlated. They commit most of their turns trying to feed Dwight deep in the post. They really do force a lot of passes in there. However, when they are successful, he just throws it down most of the time. In other words, forcing the ball in to him isn't that bad of a strategy.

I really don't think that they are a bad passing team... talent wise. Like Darko, he's not a bad passer, but he has his share of stupid turnovers. Those should go down as the year goes on. For now, it is pretty impressive that a team can win with 20 to's/ game.

Darko got the award for worst of the day in the ESPN daily dime today for his 0 point effort against the Grizzlies. However, Memphis did go on a 22-2 run in the 4th quarter after Coach Hill pulled him out of the game. And Darko was actually +2 for the game while he was on the court. I don't think it was coincidental since Battie got scored on 5 times in a row when he subbed in by Warrick.

See gameflow:
PopcornMachine's GameFlow - Orlando @ Memphis (http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20061120&game=ORLMEM&rl=16)

Darko may be inconsistent on offense, but he is tough to score against.

I know I keep telling myself that young, relativfely inexperienced players tend to be up and down, no consistency, but then when he has a bad game, D-A-A-A-M-M-I-T-T !!

It's been so long.

But then, even guys like Sheed and other good players sometimes draw a blank. Just gotta wait it out. DMC was doing so well for 4 games or so in a row. Oh, well!!

You are right, tho, when you bring multiple things to the game, you will probably not be bad in all of them at the same time.

I am comming to the realization that a healthy Grant Hill could be enough to push them over the top into a playoff seed.

It would be really nice to see Grant play through the whole season and show what he can do in the playoffs. How can you root against this guy? He looks like he still has the same stuff to me. He just doesn't take as many attempts as he did with the Pistons.

And what a great gesture for him if he actually re-signs with the Magic for the vet's minimum next year. He owes them for the 3 years of rehab that they paid him for. Still, not too many guys would 1) appreciate it, and 2) actually pay it back by signing a below market contract. We'll see if he really does it.

I am going to say 9th - 13th pick.

Bunch of youngins still looking for their niche. If they make the playoffs I expect them to get beat in the first round and that's a BIG if.

I am going to say 9th - 13th pick.

Bunch of youngins still looking for their niche. If they make the playoffs I expect them to get beat in the first round and that's a BIG if.

the pistons are a bunch of old guys looking for thier niche.

grant can win a playoff series himself. he's still a star in this league. i don't think there is a team in the east that wants to face the twin towers for 7 games. by the end of the season darko will be starting and him and d. howard shut down the paint defensively. which team in the east wants to deal with a healthy grant hill?? orlando is a very deep team and they still haven't worked jj reddick in. i don't see orlando as an easy win in the playoffs at all.

i don't think there is a team in the east that wants to face the twin towers for 7 games.
Dwight Howard and Tony Battie?

Before you start repping DMC as someone people fear, perhaps he should earn himself a starting role. I don't think any team is afraid of Tony Battie's backup. :pound:

Dwight Howard and Tony Battie?

Before you start repping DMC as someone people fear, perhaps he should earn himself a starting role. I don't think any team is afraid of Tony Battie's backup. :pound:

it's only a matter of time. i just put it in writing early so i can look prophetic.

it's only a matter of time. i just put it in writing early so i can look prophetic.
You're the best man. Seriously. Anyone who can't appreciate your conviction, forget them.

For all y'all who don't have league pass... and wouldn't watch Orlando if you did, Milicic has one of his best games tonight.

He played the whole 4th quarter in a tight ball game and basically owned J O'Neal down the stretch. Darko was 4-4 in the quarter with 2 back down hooks, 1 fake and reverse, and a 15 foot jumper with 3:00 left. Indiana ran 2 isolations to Jermaine and DM blocked him both times. He also pulled down the game clinching rebound. 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 22 minutes.

Tonight was the first game that he seemed confident and relaxed. He took his time in the post, was always helping on D, and caused quite a few misses that weren't blocks.

Orlando has had a favorable schedule so far and has gotten away with some sloppy wins. They are about to go on a tough road trip, which will show whether or not they are a contender.

For all y'all who don't have league pass... and wouldn't watch Orlando if you did, Milicic has one of his best games tonight.

He played the whole 4th quarter in a tight ball game and basically owned J O'Neal down the stretch. Darko was 4-4 in the quarter with 2 back down hooks, 1 fake and reverse, and a 15 foot jumper with 3:00 left. Indiana ran 2 isolations to Jermaine and DM blocked him both times. He also pulled down the game clinching rebound. 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 22 minutes.

Tonight was the first game that he seemed confident and relaxed. He took his time in the post, was always helping on D, and caused quite a few misses that weren't blocks.

Orlando has had a favorable schedule so far and has gotten away with some sloppy wins. They are about to go on a tough road trip, which will show whether or not they are a contender.

Nice job Darko... seems J.O. is lacking something this year... he doesn't look the same.... expecting to hear an injury report soon.

``grant can win a playoff series himself''

What roscoe says is true. One can't argue with this kind of conviction.

Nice job Darko... seems J.O. is lacking something this year... he doesn't look the same.... expecting to hear an injury report soon.
Its not J.O. being injured. Darko flat out towers over J.O. J.O. was repeatedly stuffed by Darko, and the 3 blocks Darko was credited with was actually about half of what he really got. And on D, J.O., again, if found woefully short to be able to stop Darko or even slow him down.

One more thing. It was not Darko only owning J.O. that whole 4th quarter, Darko got a very key shot alteration with a minute or so left that helped seal the game-this on a transition attempt by Indiana. Darko basically managed to shut down J.O. and found time to still be pretty much everywhere needed to play help out and transition D-and pull his share of rebounds to boot. The speed he has, along with being one of the tallest players in the NBA (He could easily be listed as 7-2 and noone would argue) is a formiddable combination.

I know I keep telling myself that young, relativfely inexperienced players tend to be up and down, no consistency, but then when he has a bad game, D-A-A-A-M-M-I-T-T !!

It's been so long.

But then, even guys like Sheed and other good players sometimes draw a blank. Just gotta wait it out. DMC was doing so well for 4 games or so in a row. Oh, well!!

You are right, tho, when you bring multiple things to the game, you will probably not be bad in all of them at the same time.

Well, for Darko it was a bad game. Compared to any other player in the league, Darko had an ok game. You see, as someone pointed out, Memphis went wild as soon as they pulled Darko out. Darko was moving very well on D and Memphis was having a heck of a time finding a shot. Darko made a dumb mistake, fouling Warrick and letting him get the and 1. Hill made a mistake, decided to pull Darko for making a mistake, instead of recognizing Darko pretty much was his defense out there. Next game, he did not repeat the mistake, as it was obvious to everyone, including Hill, that Darko was shutting down J.O.

Funny how every time Darko has a good game the Darko-maniacs unite and proclaim that the chosen one has arrived. When he has a average to subpar game (which have consequently been most of his games during the season) there is dead silence.

Hilarious.

i will quote myself from the novice league fantasy results thread :)

"Hell, even Darko managed to have one good game statistically, thereby validating his next-Jordan status to the 5 Orlando fans on the forums, who routinely masquerade as fans of the Pistons. Maybe you've seen them around."

har

Funny how every time Darko has a good game the Darko-maniacs unite and proclaim that the chosen one has arrived. When he has a average to subpar game (which have consequently been most of his games during the season) there is dead silence.

Hilarious.

Gee, over at detnews.com, after Darko had a bad game (according to the stats from the boxscore anyway) a whole lot of posters chose to talk about Darko. All bad. What comes around goes around. Here, the same. One bad game and Darko is judged so so. He is not so so. Anyone who can shut out J.O. as effectively as Darko can is way more than a so so player. This issue will not go away. And Dumars is going to be the guy who ends up looking bad, regardless of what spin he tries to use to soften what happened.

Gee, over at detnews.com, after Darko had a bad game (according to the stats from the boxscore anyway) a whole lot of posters chose to talk about Darko. All bad. What comes around goes around. Here, the same. One bad game and Darko is judged so so. He is not so so. Anyone who can shut out J.O. as effectively as Darko can is way more than a so so player. This issue will not go away. And Dumars is going to be the guy who ends up looking bad, regardless of what spin he tries to use to soften what happened.

Wouldn't know... haven't been to detnews.com since PistonsForum.com came into existence. Like the typewriter...sure its functional..but why use it considering the alternative.

Joe Dumars already looks bad.

And Darko as a whole has had a subpar to average season with a couple of breakout games. That's normally a formula for staying out of the starting rotation.

I'll just sit back and wait for the silence to return when he follows up this game with an egg. Then I'll wait a week for you guys to show up again when he has another "imagine how good he would be with starter minutes" game. lol. So predictable.

When Darko has a sub-par game, we know the nay-sayers will come up out of the woodwork so we don't have to say anything. That is taken care of for us. :stirthepot: :pound: However, you will remember that I did say something anyway after that last bad game. Actually, I have been staying away more after his good games so as not to sound braggadosio.

As for the not earning a starting role yet, I really have to say that part of that reasoning is what Brian Hill talked about recently. With Dwight out of the game, having Darko in there gives them a real post presence that they would not have. I still believe also that I am not worried about DMC starting. As long as he is included in the finishers and gets good minutes (like 22-27 per) I will be happy. And of course, at least some of those minutes should be with the other tower. You can see his confidence in DMC is getting better. He was in the full fourth quarter last night, against a good team, and he played a significant role.

Disagree if you want, but the upward slope of Darko's maturity is steepening. The bad games will be rarer and the good ones will be better.

I think joe is da man

seriosly!

the one thing I don't know is why joe didn't tell his coaches to play darko...

I can guess the reasons but... I wish darko was still a piston :(

When Darko has a sub-par game, we know the nay-sayers will come up out of the woodwork so we don't have to say anything. That is taken care of for us. :stirthepot: :pound: However, you will remember that I did say something anyway after that last bad game. Actually, I have been staying away more after his good games so as not to sound braggadosio.

As for the not earning a starting role yet, I really have to say that part of that reasoning is what Brian Hill talked about recently. With Dwight out of the game, having Darko in there gives them a real post presence that they would not have. I still believe also that I am not worried about DMC starting. As long as he is included in the finishers and gets good minutes (like 22-27 per) I will be happy. And of course, at least some of those minutes should be with the other tower. You can see his confidence in DMC is getting better. He was in the full fourth quarter last night, against a good team, and he played a significant role.

Disagree if you want, but the upward slope of Darko's maturity is steepening. The bad games will be rarer and the good ones will be better.

Lazy, you are the only one of your brethren capeable of giving an even handed take on Darko's progress. Can't disagree with anything you've said except I don't think this ends up with Darko being an all-star. Hope you enjoyed your turkey. If not, you have a lot of jive ones hanging around this thread. :MusicBigGrin:

face it, if it wasn't for the darko lovers constantly bringing him up, he wouldn't even be a topic for discussion. he's just another average ex-piston on another team we don't care about.

does anyone consistently talk about mo evans, smush parker, mikki moore, cliff robinson, etc ,etc...

And Darko as a whole has had a subpar to average season with a couple of breakout games. That's normally a formula for staying out of the starting rotation.

a subpar to average season with a couple of breakout games still has ben wallace in the starting lineup.


I'll just sit back and wait for the silence to return when he follows up this game with an egg. Then I'll wait a week for you guys to show up again when he has another "imagine how good he would be with starter minutes" game. lol. So predictable.

you are so predictable to not acknowledge the fact when darko has a good game. somebody tried to even put it off on J.O. not being himself this year that darko shut him down. usually people try to diminish what darko does if it's good by saying it's against charlotte, atlanta or it's preseason, world championships. yet those same people overreact and emphasize when darko has a bad game. that's why we have some dedicated posters that come in and set everybody straight and let people know when darko does well.

he will have an all star career.

you are so predictable to not acknowledge the fact when darko has a good game.

Actually I mentioned his good games even before you did on occasion. I wouldn't have time to mention ALL of his less than exciting games. Because..well..most of them have been. lol.

Besides we've already established that I have the ability to be objective and you do not. Remember the 10 reasons why Darko will/won't succeed exercise you admittedly weren't able to do because you feel Darko is guaranteed success. lmao! I did the exercise for Ben and Darko without blinking an eye. It really isn't that difficult to see both sides of the arguement if you just use the slightest bit of logic.

So, you are incorrect as usual and blinded by your fascination with the Serbian. Thank you for proving my point. A refusal to admit that most of his games have been average to subpar while instead pointing to a list of good games in his career where he has had success.... Yep, that's your story over and over again. Funny thing is that even Mo Evans can boast the same type of success record. Where is the Mo Evans love????? Actually when I was in Highschool, I put together a couple 20+ point games. Damn, I missed my calling. I could have been the next Jordan. lol.

I once had an 11 point game in high school.

I put together a healthy string of quadruple singles though. rebs, points, ast and steals.

I put together a healthy string of quadruple singles though. rebs, points, ast and steals.

What's wrong with being well rounded??But we should see a decent pick from them and our own.Deep draft so they say and Joe better have a stellar offseason.Otherwise the Sheed move was a fluke cuz he hasn't impressed since.Especially when Darko and Aroyoyo become perennial allstars lol that draft pick better be the next Shaq or Yao.

I once had an 11 point game in high school.

I put together a healthy string of quadruple singles though. rebs, points, ast and steals.


Want to be on my fantasy team?

Try not to injure yourself watching the game tonight though. My IR list is full.

Want to be on my fantasy team?

Try not to injure yourself watching the game tonight though. My IR list is full.
My elbows are razorblades. You don't want me practicing with your superstars. I was the original Mad Dog before Mark Madsen became a pro.

darko has put together a few dominant 4th quarter performances. stats aside darko is playing real good.

grant hill is as great as ever.

d. howard is a beast.

orlando is leading the east. last year was not a fluke

I have to admit, Orlando has played much better than I thought. Remember, thought, the season is still very young.

I have to admit, Orlando has played much better than I thought. Remember, thought, the season is still very young.


What thought do you want us to remember?:pound: :pound:

Just playing with you Bill. You are one of my favorite posters on here!

Gee, over at detnews.com, after Darko had a bad game (according to the stats from the boxscore anyway) a whole lot of posters chose to talk about Darko. All bad. What comes around goes around. Here, the same. One bad game and Darko is judged so so. He is not so so. Anyone who can shut out J.O. as effectively as Darko can is way more than a so so player. This issue will not go away. And Dumars is going to be the guy who ends up looking bad, regardless of what spin he tries to use to soften what happened.

go darko your the man

Interesting that Battie is still in the starting lineup (0 pts tonight)... Darko had 7 pts in 31 min... not exactly making a case this game.

The Magic are now 10-4 and can no longer be ignored.
Too bad they had to start playing ball when we have their pick... I don't see this team remaining healthy... on every defensive possesion they are stretching beyond what they can do... most of these guys have not played major minutes before.

My elbows are razorblades. You don't want me practicing with your superstars. I was the original Mad Dog before Mark Madsen became a pro.

Sounds like you would be an excellent Nintendo Wii player.
:nerd2:

Interesting that Battie is still in the starting lineup (0 pts tonight)... Darko had 7 pts in 31 min... not exactly making a case this game.

The Magic are now 10-4 and can no longer be ignored.
Too bad they had to start playing ball when we have their pick... I don't see this team remaining healthy... on every defensive possesion they are stretching beyond what they can do... most of these guys have not played major minutes before.

Howard is arguably the bset PF in the league, including Boozer. They are young and it seems to me that they are only going to get better, though they probably won't have a higher winning percentage at year end than they have now.

Interesting that Battie is still in the starting lineup (0 pts tonight)... Darko had 7 pts in 31 min... not exactly making a case this game.


it was a blowout early. darko only took 7 shots.

it was a blowout early. darko only took 7 shots.

Go to 82games.com. Its clear that Darko is outplaying Battie totally. Tonight, due to foul trouble Darko got a lot of minutes, but Darko has recently been kept in for whole 4th quarters every game. (Ever since Hill made the mistake of taking him out in the Memphis game and watching a floodgate of scoring open for Memphis.)

Tonight, forget the stats. Orlando continually ran their offense thru Darko and Darko made good decisions all night. And defense does not show up in the boxscore. With Darko on the floor, challenging virtually every shot Atlanta tried to put up, Atlanta scored just one bucket for the last 8 minutes of the 2nd quarter. (just 2 points, no free throw attempts even) Yes, and Darko was flying out to bother that one too. Darko was only credited for 2 blocks in this one, but man if they had a stat for shot alterations. Darko had them drawing rain trying to shoot over him. And back to that decision making by Darko. Atlanta could not score, and a game that had Atlanta just 7 points behind at one point in the 2nd quarter ended up with Orlando leading 57-29, with Orlando just being one point away from having Atlanta doubled up. Game over.

Unfortunantly it looks like the Orlando pick won't bring much to the Pistons. Of course things can change very quickly.

it was a blowout early. darko only took 7 shots.

I don't understand your logic. Perhaps you are just speaking randomnly again. Are you saying that typically in blowouts where a player is in the game for the majority of the minutes, its likely they won't score much?

:crazy:

I don't understand your logic. Perhaps you are just speaking randomnly again. Are you saying that typically in blowouts where a player is in the game for the majority of the minutes, its likely they won't score much?

:crazy:

i mean darko wasn't trying to score because the game was already decided. he has never been the type to try to run up his stats in garbage time. darko was busy being unselfish trying to get jj reddick his first nba points.

i mean darko wasn't trying to score because the game was already decided. he has never been the type to try to run up his stats in garbage time. darko was busy being unselfish trying to get jj reddick his first nba points.

He didn't have strong assist totals either. I'm gonna toss this one up as bologna. If you get to rain on my Ben Wallace parade, don't be afraid to get wet yourself. lol.

He didn't have strong assist totals either. I'm gonna toss this one up as bologna. If you get to rain on my Ben Wallace parade, don't be afraid to get wet yourself. lol.

I saw the game last night, Darko was NOT LOOKING FOR HIS OWN SHOTS, he was just swinging the ball around. The guards WERE NOT PASSING THE BALL TOO MUCH, ATL was doubling all post players and they were passing it back out of the post. Darko swung the ball out to open shooters several times but they missed quite a few of them. Just look at the RATIO of shots between the Magic bigs (Howard, Battie, Darko) vs the Magic's guards (Nelson, Arroyo, Turkoglu, Dooling), the bigs were giving up the ball.

Darko was moving the ball, but not much comes out of that statistically. He did get the assist for JJ Redick's first NBA basket and then got him the ball for JJ's second NBA attempt. Remember Darko's assist on Amir's first bucket? Darko didn't look to "pad his numbers" at the end of the game, he was just moving the ball around and waiting for the clock to run out.

This link might lead to Magics 5 man units.
Orlando Magic top five man units data from 82games.com (http://www.82games.com/0607/0607ORL2.HTM)
Right when I try to get out, they keep pulling me back in!

if i ever run for public office i'm hiring jay for spin purposes

I saw the game last night, Darko was NOT LOOKING FOR HIS OWN SHOTS, he was just swinging the ball around. The guards WERE NOT PASSING THE BALL TOO MUCH, ATL was doubling all post players and they were passing it back out of the post. Darko swung the ball out to open shooters several times but they missed quite a few of them. Just look at the RATIO of shots between the Magic bigs (Howard, Battie, Darko) vs the Magic's guards (Nelson, Arroyo, Turkoglu, Dooling), the bigs were giving up the ball.

Darko was moving the ball, but not much comes out of that statistically. He did get the assist for JJ Redick's first NBA basket and then got him the ball for JJ's second NBA attempt. Remember Darko's assist on Amir's first bucket? Darko didn't look to "pad his numbers" at the end of the game, he was just moving the ball around and waiting for the clock to run out.

Hmm..I guess this makes sense since he's already established himself as a force in this league (sarcasm!)...may as well give the guys trying to make a name for themselves a shot.

Un...huh..

Save it. This is a sexy way of calling Darko passive which is no revelation.

i mean darko wasn't trying to score because the game was already decided. he has never been the type to try to run up his stats in garbage time. darko was busy being unselfish trying to get jj reddick his first nba points.

I think it was established many times in the past that Darko's culture forbids him from playing hard in garbage time.

Hmm..I guess this makes sense since he's already established himself as a force in this league (sarcasm!)...may as well give the guys trying to make a name for themselves a shot.

Un...huh..

Save it. This is a sexy way of calling Darko passive which is no revelation.


So you think it's WISE to shoot over double teams? Darko got the ball inside a few times, got doubled, and found the open man. He WASN'T FORCING THINGS. What more do you want out of your bigman?

Dwight Howard fouled out with over 6 minutes left in the game and Darko was the ONLY POSTUP presence on the court. The Hawks were doubling EVERYTIME and Darko was pssing out of the double. Olando has OPEN SHOOTERS on the perimeter ALL NIGHT LONG.

Just look at the stats, Darko, D12 and Battie didn't take too many shots. All of the Perimeter guys on ORLANDO DID GET ALOT OF SHOTS.

THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE.

IF YOU DIDN"T SEE THE GAME, I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE you could make an assessment on his play.

From reading your posts, it seems you are just a "Darko hater".

The Hawks were doubling EVERYTIME and Darko was pssing out of the double.

Question:

In your word pssing.

Is the missing letter a:

"I"

or an

"A"

Thanks

:stirthepot:

Tonight, forget the stats.

Just look at the stats.


Forget the stats. Look at the stats. This is so confusing...:confused:

Darko got the ball inside a few times, got doubled, and found the open man. He WASN'T FORCING THINGS. What more do you want out of your bigman?


Any guy in the NBA should be doing those things from day 1. Any person who plays basketball should do that. It's nothing special.

Just let me tell you one thing:

:cheers: I JUST LOVE THIS FORUM:dancingparty:


I read and post at several forums but this one is the best. We can all see or not see the same games, articles, film clips, and all the media outtakes and we can come up with the most diverse, completely opposite points of view.

Darko is not starting. Some of us believe that is because he is making such a contribution off the bench and is gaining steadily in minutes played and times in the games he is playing and is working out as the real post presence when Dwight is out, and when D 12 is in, they make a teriffic combo.

But others say that DMC is not starting and can't beat Tony out for the starter job, and he is soft and so forth.

I think that when the Magic is 10-4 and the team is learning more and more how to play together, and is still leading the EC, something is going well.

On last night's game, I understand the Atlanta play-by-play guys were talking about the Magic guards taking so many, many shots. They were calling Arroyo a 'black hole'.

And Darko worked with JJ like he did with Amir Johnson to get them their first NBA points. His reputation for passing and shot blocking might be his legacy at least for a while, as he looks to do those things ahead of scoring.

And of course some will say that is because he 'can't score' or rebound.

It is really fun and we have such a diversity of thoughts. I never know what I am going to read when I come here so I come here a lot.

May I ask this one question? :stirthepot:

I would like to know what you guys think about "At what point do we decide that the Magic is to be taken seriously", and conversely, "At what point do we decide that they are NOT to be taken seriously, at least not for this year"?

They are 10-4. Do we reconsider after this 6 game west coast road trip? Or how much longer?

:outtahere: Just wondering!!

So you think it's WISE to shoot over double teams? Darko got the ball inside a few times, got doubled, and found the open man. He WASN'T FORCING THINGS. What more do you want out of your bigman?

Dwight Howard fouled out with over 6 minutes left in the game and Darko was the ONLY POSTUP presence on the court. The Hawks were doubling EVERYTIME and Darko was pssing out of the double. Olando has OPEN SHOOTERS on the perimeter ALL NIGHT LONG.

Just look at the stats, Darko, D12 and Battie didn't take too many shots. All of the Perimeter guys on ORLANDO DID GET ALOT OF SHOTS.

THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE.

IF YOU DIDN"T SEE THE GAME, I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE you could make an assessment on his play.

From reading your posts, it seems you are just a "Darko hater".

I'm a hater of bad logic.

If Darko played 30+ mins and D12 was out for the last 6 mins, how does that explain the rest of his time in the game.

Rather than getting mad at me, you and bballjay should invest in better logic. lol.

My only point was that your explanations for his poor statistical performance seem rather lame. If you would like a larger explanation of how I feel about the Darko experience...well you have alot of PF.Com threads that speak to that. I've been extremely fair as it pertains to Dorko. Hearing you guys gush over a guy that still hasn't done much is what bothers me, so I get a bit of enjoyment out of pointing out the obvious to you guys...Darko hasn't really done squat yet! :)

But alas, you are correct. I did not watch the game but I have watched plenty of his games as a Piston and as a contributing player in a Magic uniform. Enough to say that often when most supporters of Darko in this forum describe Darko's accomplishments they make more excuses than a politician caught with their pants down. In my opinion, the "Darko potential" love fest is an overhyped one and gets no love from me.

But to each its own. Personally I think Biedrins out of Golden St. is much more talented and he has the numbers to support it. But you guys would never notice that because you've been waiting for a Darko break out game for the last 3 years.

Any guy in the NBA should be doing those things from day 1. Any person who plays basketball should do that. It's nothing special.

Not in Darko World.

In Darko world that makes you allstar potential! Whoopeee!

I don't think Darko is living up to his pick number yet, but he's better than Battie. Sometimes I wish the Pistons would do the same thing. Instead of having all 5 starters maybe you have Tayshaun come off the bench. We all know that with 4 all stars on the floor not every guy will be fully utilized.

Not in Darko World.

In Darko world that makes you allstar potential! Whoopeee!

The thing that impresses me about Darko sometimes is his shotblocking, but that's about it. I can name you 25 bigmen from the top of my head that can outduel Darko.

May I ask this one question? :stirthepot:

I would like to know what you guys think about "At what point do we decide that the Magic is to be taken seriously", and conversely, "At what point do we decide that they are NOT to be taken seriously, at least not for this year"?

They are 10-4. Do we reconsider after this 6 game west coast road trip? Or how much longer?

:outtahere: Just wondering!!

I think we should take them seriously. The Magic finished the season as one of the best teams in the league and this is just a continuation. Darko is a great role player and the re-emergence of Grant Hill automatically makes them legitmate playoff hopefuls. I expect Orlando to finish as a 6-8 seed. I don't see them advancing past the first round though as too many of their critical parts/players lack playoff experience.

Just let me tell you one thing:

:cheers: I JUST LOVE THIS FORUM:dancingparty:
You're a nice man.

May I ask this one question? :stirthepot:

I would like to know what you guys think about "At what point do we decide that the Magic is to be taken seriously", and conversely, "At what point do we decide that they are NOT to be taken seriously, at least not for this year"?

They are 10-4. Do we reconsider after this 6 game west coast road trip? Or how much longer?

:outtahere: Just wondering!!
I don't think you will get many responses to a great question. These guys all have Darko-fever.

I'mn a detroit fan, the standard is high. They are to be taken seriously if/when we face them in the playoffs, and not before. It's still only November. There is so much basketball to be played. One injury to Howard could destroy their season.

Orlando is a young team. They are 7-1 at home. Once the road games start coming in it will test this team. I think almost any injury could mess this team up. Of course if they lose Howard there season is in jeapordy, but if they lose a shooter it could allow more double teams to make Howard less effective. If Darko goes down you don't have much big men left besides Howard. If Hill goes down you lose leadership as well.

I would like to know what you guys think about "At what point do we decide that the Magic is to be taken seriously", and conversely, "At what point do we decide that they are NOT to be taken seriously, at least not for this year"?

My POV - you have to take them seriously right now, and continue doing so until they break (if they do). 10 and 4 is nothing to sneeze about. They've played eight home games six away so there isn't that great a disparity. One thing for me to solidify my respect would be some quality away wins. So far they haven't really played many top teams on the road. If they can't win there, them I have to doubt.

And of course, Hill is the ultimate wild card. If he goes down...

You take them seriously when they beat a top 5 team when that team is trying and or if they do well on a tough road trip.

roscoe wrote"
"I'm a detroit fan, the standard is high. They are to be taken seriously if/when we face them in the playoffs, and not before. It's still only November. There is so much basketball to be played. One injury to Howard could destroy their season."

Great response!! And himat, as well. Injuries to a few key people could knock them into a cocked hat. Dwight (certainly), Darko (almost as certainly), Grant (for sure).

The rest I think would be kind of covered up. They are so deep at the 1 and 2, even the 3. JJ and Doogie really need to play; Keyon and Keith need time; Trevor and Hedo need to get on the floor. They are so deep except at the 4 and 5. If D X D and Tonee stay healthy, I like to see them play a lot of minutes. I just wish they would get Augustine in there because his fans from Illinois say he really likes to do the grunt work in the high post.

This is really an interesting season. The Pistons are coming out of their early-season funk, Utah has the best record in the league with Orlando a close second. Man, this is fun. I would love it if the Pistons had to fight the Magic for the right to play the Jazz.

I know, DREAM ON, LAZY!!!

The thing that impresses me about Darko sometimes is his shotblocking, but that's about it. I can name you 25 bigmen from the top of my head that can outduel Darko.

i'd love to see that list. darko absolutely owns most big men defensively. i'm talking the big name top 10 centers. you probably could name 15 with better stats but head to head darko shuts bigs down.

orlando is a lot like out team of a couple of years ago. nobody except d. howard is going to put up major stats. they've had lots of games this season with like 6 guys in double figures. just like tay would be putting up lots of numbers on another team. ben used to gobble up all our rebounds but now everybody else's numbers are increasing cause he isn't here.

passing out of double teams isn't really something to jump for joy about but it is needed. d. howard gets most of his turns from what i've seen when he tries to go through double teams. getting double teamed all night does however explain why you could play 30 and only get about 7 attempts.

Hmm..I guess this makes sense since he's already established himself as a force in this league (sarcasm!)...may as well give the guys trying to make a name for themselves a shot.

Un...huh..

Save it. This is a sexy way of calling Darko passive which is no revelation.

no. but it does establish darko as one of the good guys of the league. you could blow it off if this was the first time darko did it. he got amir his first points too.

how many touches did ben wallace make sure he got to darko????

Did anyone notice that in the first post of this thread, it was supposed to be about the Magic and our pick, not the usual Darko arguments between Motown and bball jay?

Did anyone see that? or am I just imagining? It's been a long day.

no. but it does establish darko as one of the good guys of the league. you could blow it off if this was the first time darko did it. he got amir his first points too.

how many touches did ben wallace make sure he got to darko????

I would say Ben is probably responsible for a lot of first points considering he usually defers on offense.

Roscoe, I think it is impossible for any conversation dealing with the Orlando Magic's success in a Pistons forum to not veer toward Darko's production. Realistically this thread as it pertains to Orlando's success should be directed toward the growth of Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson as well as the resurrgence of Grant Hill. But the largest contributors to this thread are Darko fanatics who seemingly see his presence as the prominent reason as to why Orlando is suceeding. Will the debate ever end? Probably not. At least not until the end of the season when we can truely evaluate Darko. Until then, I apologize in advance but...you can expect a counter response when a Darko rules the universe posting shows it face again on an Orlando Magic related thread.

I would say Ben is probably responsible for a lot of first points considering he usually defers on offense.

Roscoe, I think it is impossible for any conversation dealing with the Orlando Magic's success in a Pistons forum to not veer toward Darko's production. Realistically this thread as it pertains to Orlando's success should be directed toward the growth of Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson as well as the resurrgence of Grant Hill. But the largest contributors to this thread are Darko fanatics who seemingly see his presence as the prominent reason as to why Orlando is suceeding. Will the debate ever end? Probably not. At least not until the end of the season when we can truely evaluate Darko. Until then, I apologize in advance but...you can expect a counter response when a Darko rules the universe posting shows it face again on an Orlando Magic related thread.

MoTown, I agree, it is impossible to separate the Magic from Darko. Inasmuch as we should EXPECT Jameer and Dwight to improve and maybe Grant to get back to some form of early Grant Hill, the main thing that will make the most difference as to whether or not the Magic improve to any form of contending status would be the improvement of DMC to his place as one of the building blocks of the Magic. That 'building block' description is not my description, but that of the Magic brass and press.

Of course, we are not contending that DMC will be the only reason. There are JJ, Ariza and Hedo who are important, but I think that many of those either for or against Darko will agree with that statement. The non-believers will be betting that he does not and they do not, but they can agree that the two are interrelated.

As to the helping of "first NBA points", Darko did get assists on the ones mentioned. Ben, if he threw the ball to any rookie, it was probably a failed shot attempt :stirthepot: . Just joshin' with you. I was a Ben fan, too. Remember, I wanted him to stay long enough to come off the bench behind Darko.

Here is the list Jay:
Tim Duncan
Dwight Howard
Rasheed Wallace
Ben Wallace
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Stoudemire
Yao Ming
Shaq
Nenad Krstic
Chris Bosh
Jermaine Oneal
Marcus Camby
Andrei Kirilenko
Carlos Boozer
Zach Randolph
Pau Gasol
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Elton Brand
Chris Kaman
Emeka Okafor
Antawn Jamison
Andrew Bogut
David West
Memo

I think it was established many times in the past that Darko's culture forbids him from playing hard in garbage time.

:pound: :rofl:

Here is the list Jay:
Tim Duncan
Dwight Howard
Rasheed Wallace
Ben Wallace
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Stoudemire
Yao Ming
Shaq
Nenad Krstic
Chris Bosh
Jermaine Oneal
Marcus Camby
Andrei Kirilenko
Carlos Boozer
Zach Randolph
Pau Gasol
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Elton Brand
Chris Kaman
Emeka Okafor
Antawn Jamison
Andrew Bogut
David West
Memo

And those are the obvious ones.

I'll add...

Andris Biedrins
Troy Murphy
Brad Miller
Boris Diaw
Zach Randolph
Charlie Vlinanueva
David Lee
Al Harrington
Zaza Pachulia
Al Harrington

to that list.

Orlando is a young team. They are 7-1 at home. Once the road games start coming in it will test this team. I think almost any injury could mess this team up. Of course if they lose Howard there season is in jeapordy, but if they lose a shooter it could allow more double teams to make Howard less effective. If Darko goes down you don't have much big men left besides Howard. If Hill goes down you lose leadership as well.


Uh, Orlando is an extremely DEEP team, they have a ton of depth.

Grant Hill has missed two games this year, BOTH GAMES were BLOWOUT WINS for the Magic. They are very deep. Their worst depth is at the PF/C spot however and if they lose Dwight Howard they are in a bit of trouble, BUT I think that Battie and Darko would fill in until Dwight could come back and they would do a pretty good job. They wouldn't be as great as they have been early on but they would still be a good basketball team.

I would say Ben is probably responsible for a lot of first points considering he usually defers on offense.


so basically no he hasn't. deferring is different than creating shots for other players. darko makes his teammates better thats a sign of a star. bens man probably double teamed a lot of players to hinder them from making thier first points.

Here is the list Jay:
Tim Duncan
Dwight Howard
Rasheed Wallace
Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Stoudemire
Yao Ming
Shaq
Chris Bosh
Carlos Boozer
Zach Randolph
Pau Gasol
Elton Brand
Memo

i'll give you 13. but for the rest.

more of a small forward:
Andrei Kirilenko
Antawn Jamison
Boris Diaw
Charlie Vlinanueva
Al Harrington

better but got locked up head to head:
Emeka Okafor
Jermaine Oneal
Kevin Garnett

bad team good stats:
David West

more experienced but being better is debatable:
Ben Wallace
Nenad Krstic
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Marcus Camby
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
David Lee
Zaza Pachulia
Andris Biedrins
Troy Murphy
Brad Miller

darko is a top 10 big man defender in this league. i think this list was offensively biased. most of these players are just waiting to get owned by darko. head to head darko has matched up well with big man stars. i think people put too much emphasis on stats too. darko is playing 20 minutes and he's like the 3rd to 4th option on the team. he's also being forced to play out of comfort zone by his coach.

so basically no he hasn't. deferring is different than creating shots for other players. darko makes his teammates better thats a sign of a star. bens man probably double teamed a lot of players to hinder them from making thier first points.

Not saying that...I'm simply saying thats something you would track if you are grasping for straws to show relevence.

How does Orlando talk become Darko speak? Howard & Hill monopolize most stats and Darko gets fictitious credit for taking down most NBA premier big men after less than 15 games?

Am I missing something important here?

How does Orlando talk become Darko speak? Howard & Hill monopolize most stats and Darko gets fictitious credit for taking down most NBA premier big men after less than 15 games?

Am I missing something important here?

I'd say you captured it all in a nutshell. Welcome to Darko bizzaro world!

I'd say you captured it all in a nutshell. Welcome to Darko bizzaro world!Mo...there's something about bballjay that hypnotically makes you want to believe him...then you wake up in a cold sweat thanking the Almighty that Darko is no longer a Piston.

How does Orlando talk become Darko speak? Howard & Hill monopolize most stats and Darko gets fictitious credit for taking down most NBA premier big men after less than 15 games?

Am I missing something important here?

you are missing the games. you are only looking at the stats. it's not fictional darko did own several premier big men. they just simply couldn't score on him. if you want a stat look at darko's blocks. he plays 20 minutes a game and is in the top 10 of the league. when darko comes in the paint is shut down.that's a big plus for a team to bring in 1 guy and the paint gets shut down.

just like when you talk miami you have to talk shaq & wade, kobe and the lakers, lebron and cleveland.


darko is part of a 3 headed monster that will terrorize the east for years to come. darko, d. howard and jameer. it's not just me saying it it's the magic brass that is including darko in the plans for the future. darko gets most of the talk here because he's forever connected to the pistons. whether he plays good or not will most effect whether we get a good pick or not. the others that can effect us is dependent on injury because they are known commodity. .

Mo...there's something about bballjay that hypnotically makes you want to believe him...then you wake up in a cold sweat thanking the Almighty that Darko is no longer a Piston.

yes. the combo of dale davis and nazr really looks promising to carry us deep into the playoffs for years to come. watching nazr foul people without making a play on the ball makes me sweat.

you don't have to believe me now. darko will own our big men in the coming weeks. you can see it first hand the impact that he has on the game.

He's awesome. Big man that blocks shots, doesn't rebound well (5.4 a game), shoots a mediocre field goal pct for a big and shoots horribly from the line (50%). Absolutely awesome! Did I mention he's a good shot blocker? Is there a Hall of Fame for shotblocking?

yes. the combo of dale davis and nazr really looks promising to carry us deep into the playoffs for years to come. watching nazr foul people without making a play on the ball makes me sweat.

you don't have to believe me now. darko will own our big men in the coming weeks. you can see it first hand the impact that he has on the game.

Darko's current season stats (averages):
0 games started
21 mins
7.7 points
5.4 rebs
1.1 ast
1.6 TO
.7 steals
2.1 blocks
3 fouls

Nazr's current season stats (averages):
14 games started
20 mins
6.9 points
5.9 rebs
.1 ast
1.1 TO
.8 steals
1.2 blocks
3.5 fouls

Forget the stats. Look at the stats. This is so confusing...:confused:
I think you are supposed to look at the stats, and then forget what you see.

Or maybe you are supposed to forget to look at the stats and just wing it.

:rofl:

you are missing the games. you are only looking at the stats. it's not fictional darko did own several premier big men. they just simply couldn't score on him. if you want a stat look at darko's blocks. he plays 20 minutes a game and is in the top 10 of the league. when darko comes in the paint is shut down.that's a big plus for a team to bring in 1 guy and the paint gets shut down.

just like when you talk miami you have to talk shaq & wade, kobe and the lakers, lebron and cleveland.


darko is part of a 3 headed monster that will terrorize the east for years to come. darko, d. howard and jameer. it's not just me saying it it's the magic brass that is including darko in the plans for the future. darko gets most of the talk here because he's forever connected to the pistons. whether he plays good or not will most effect whether we get a good pick or not. the others that can effect us is dependent on injury because they are known commodity. .

You are hardly doing justice by only mentioning Darko's excellent defensive work in the interior. The fact is, Darko constantly flies out at people on the perimeter and is very successful at altering those shots too.

Also, to back you up a bit, someone below puts up Mohammed's vs. Darko's numbers this season. Here is a telling stat though. How many games has the coach let Mohammed finish? None I believe. And how many 4th quarters has Mohammed been in this year. Very few. This last game, Mohammed was done 4 minutes into the 2nd half, and that is getting to be the usual. Meanwhile, we are, as you mention, seeing Darko own one big after another and therefore staying out there more and more in the 4th quarter, playing entire 4th quarters as of late. O'Neal in particular looked like a midget trying to either defend or score on Darko.

My eyes are beginning to glaze over again and I'm getting very, very sleepy...something must be affecting me. :sleep:

The fact is, Darko constantly flies

Amazing. This kid really CAN do it all.

Good thing they are only playing Darko 20 MPG. Nice of them to give the rest of the league a break.

Good thing they are only playing Darko 20 MPG. Nice of them to give the rest of the league a break.

It's not being nice Max, it's called sandbagging.

It's not being nice Max, it's called sandbagging.

Shhh..

Please wait until after the trade deadline before unveiling team secrets like that.

He's awesome. Big man that blocks shots, doesn't rebound well (5.4 a game), shoots a mediocre field goal pct for a big and shoots horribly from the line (50%). Absolutely awesome! Did I mention he's a good shot blocker? Is there a Hall of Fame for shotblocking?

so basically he's better than our bigs.

he rebounds similar to sheed. he creates rebounds for his team with all the shot block intimidation. it's hard to get rebound numbers when you are paired with a great rebounder. look at how everyone on the pistons numbers increased when ben left.

he is however clutch at the free throw line. when the game was on the line darko has done well at the line. i bet flip saunders would have gave his left nut to have a 50% shooting big man in last years playoffs.

at least he isn't a malcontent.

at least he isn't a malcontent.
He was. And he might be again. His contract negotiations are going to be very interesting. And so will his performance once he has a long term deal.

so basically he's better than our bigs.

he rebounds similar to sheed. he creates rebounds for his team with all the shot block intimidation. it's hard to get rebound numbers when you are paired with a great rebounder. look at how everyone on the pistons numbers increased when ben left.

he is however clutch at the free throw line. when the game was on the line darko has done well at the line. i bet flip saunders would have gave his left nut to have a 50% shooting big man in last years playoffs.

at least he isn't a malcontent.

Rebounding?

Wrong.

Actually he doesn't rebound similar to Sheed. Sheed has the numbers to support his rebounding, Darko has your faith. Oh, the shared rebound lame arguement. Amare Stoudamire and Shawn Marion don't appear to have problems. Memo and Boozer, no problems. Haslem and O'neal, no problems. J'Oneal and J. Foster/Harrison, no problems. Murphy and Biedrins, no problems. Dirk and Dampier, no problems. The list goes on and on and on and on....

Free throw problems?

Wrong.

Last I checked none of our bigs who play have a free throw shooting problem this year. Ben is no longer a member of the Pistons so I hope you weren't referring to him. Maxiel has problems from the strike, but he doesn't play. Shaq shoots pretty good when he needs to make free throws too, so I guess under your criteria Shaq is a good free throw shooter.

Malcontent?

See Roscoe's post.

Wow, can't believe that you are now claiming that Darko is better than Sheed. Will the madness ever stop?

He was. And he might be again. His contract negotiations are going to be very interesting. And so will his performance once he has a long term deal.

I hear he is negotiatiing with Larry Brown to become his agent!! LOL

:gun1:

Rebounding?

Wrong.

Actually he doesn't rebound similar to Sheed. Sheed has the numbers to support his rebounding, Darko has your faith. Oh, the shared rebound lame arguement. Amare Stoudamire and Shawn Marion don't appear to have problems. Memo and Boozer, no problems. Haslem and O'neal, no problems. J'Oneal and J. Foster/Harrison, no problems. Murphy and Biedrins, no problems. Dirk and Dampier, no problems. The list goes on and on and on and on....

sheeds rebound numbers weren't as high as they are now when he played next to ben. darko plays 20 min. if he played more his rebounds would be more. he is a shotblocker so he is often out of position for rebounds.


Free throw problems?

Wrong.

Last I checked none of our bigs who play have a free throw shooting problem this year. Ben is no longer a member of the Pistons so I hope you weren't referring to him. Maxiel has problems from the strike, but he doesn't play. Shaq shoots pretty good when he needs to make free throws too, so I guess under your criteria Shaq is a good free throw shooter.

i said last year in my post. that was the year hack a ben was so effective cause ben couldn't hit one out of 2 free throws for 7 straight games.

we fixed the free throw problem with nazr. you haven't checked dale davis stats he is a bad free throw shooter.


Malcontent?

See Roscoe's post.


actually orlando said they will let the market decide darko's value. they will match whatever teams throw at him. otis has the ok from the owners to go into luxury tax to keep the core together. i see the negotiations going smoothly. i see a team offering 60 and orlando matching it.


Wow, can't believe that you are now claiming that Darko is better than Sheed. Will the madness ever stop?

well sheed may be better than darko right now i'll give you that one. honestly i wasn't even considering sheed when i wrote that. i was thinking more towards nazr and dale davis. darko did lock sheed up head to head though.

sheeds rebound numbers weren't as high as they are now when he played next to ben. darko plays 20 min. if he played more his rebounds would be more. he is a shotblocker so he is often out of position for rebounds.

You don't know that he will...you think he will. As a point of reference, I've seen great rebounders a mass double digit rebounds in a 20 min span easily. So far, Darko has shown that he is an average rebounder at best. The shotblocking thing....tell that to Duncan, Okafur and Ben Wallace.


i said last year in my post. that was the year hack a ben was so effective cause ben couldn't hit one out of 2 free throws for 7 straight games.

we fixed the free throw problem with nazr. you haven't checked dale davis stats he is a bad free throw shooter.

Dale Davis doesn't play much and like I said he is not a better free throw shooter than our guys that play big minutes.


actually orlando said they will let the market decide darko's value. they will match whatever teams throw at him. otis has the ok from the owners to go into luxury tax to keep the core together. i see the negotiations going smoothly. i see a team offering 60 and orlando matching it.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.



well sheed may be better than darko right now i'll give you that one. honestly i wasn't even considering sheed when i wrote that. i was thinking more towards nazr and dale davis. darko did lock sheed up head to head though.

Wow a concession. I knew I'd wear you down after the 500th post. :pound: Your lock up references associated with Darko are beginning to get nauseating. Maybe all these players can ask Chris Kaman what he was doing when he faced Darko. :nerd2:

I've seen great rebounders a mass double digit rebounds in a 20 min span easily. So far, Darko has shown that he is an average rebounder at best.

true that.

reggie evans - 18.8 mpg - 8.7 rpg
david lee - 24.8 mpg - 9.2 rbg
jeff foster - 20.6 mpg - 7.1 rpg
-------------------------------------
darko milicic - 21.0 mpg - 5.4 rpg

even 48 minute stats don't help the darko argument - 56th overall in rebounding per 48 (qualified players).


it's hard to get rebound numbers when you are paired with a great rebounder.

harder maybe, but still quite possible if you are good enough, as the following proves.

the following players beat out darko and all average within 3 mpg of darko (who averages 21.0 mpg), so as not to misrepresent the data. their strong rebounding teammates are in brackets.

reggie evans (camby)
sean may (okafor)
nick collison (wilcox)
kendrick perkins (pierce 9per)
al jefferson (pierce)
chuck hayes (yao)
fabricio oberto (duncan)
desagana diop (nowitzki, dampier)
antonio mcdyess (nazr, sheed)
kurt thomas (stoudemire, marion)
nazr mohammed (sheed)
craig smith (garnett)
andrew bynum (odom)
shelden williams (pachulia)
lawrence roberts
etan thomas (jamison)
jeff foster (j. o'neal)

yes, ALL of these players are better per 48 boarders than darko, so don't use the 'he don't get enough minutes' excuse. and note that most of these guys have 1, even 2 big boarders to contend with. darko's case of having a strong rebounding teammate is not isolated. but the players above have all proven its possible to be a very good rebounder. i'm not saying all these players are better than darko, but when it comes to rebounding...

STATS DON'T LIE!!

he is a shotblocker so he is often out of position for rebounds.:bs: I have endured much of your confounded Darko logic for a long time...you just stepped over my boundary of tolerance. The only shotblockers I know that are out of position for rebounds are those trying to defend 3's. Am I mistaken? I thought Darko was the NBA's premier paint defender?

Nevermind...silly me...I forgot that Darko can fly :flypig:

Darko is 50th in the league in rebounds per time unit. There are 30 teams in the league. That means that he would be on average the 2nd best rebounder on any given team. He happens to be on the team with the league leader in rebounds. That doesn't sounds to me like he is an average rebounder. Seems like the stats say that he is an above average rebounder.

Also, when you look at his ranking on the team in the following categories, you can see that he is a valuable part of one of the biggest surprises in the East...
production- 4th
plus/minus- 5th
roland rating- 4th

Battie ranks 12th, 12th, and 12th in those same categories.

Stats can definately lie, but these are looking good for the Serb.

darko great. Darko not so great. It's looking like that draft pick is getting weaker as the season wears on. I mean we're looking for some sort of break down since the magic are near the top of the east.

Darko is 50th in the league in rebounds per time unit. There are 30 teams in the league. That means that he would be on average the 2nd best rebounder on any given team. He happens to be on the team with the league leader in rebounds. That doesn't sounds to me like he is an average rebounder. Seems like the stats say that he is an above average rebounder.

Also, when you look at his ranking on the team in the following categories, you can see that he is a valuable part of one of the biggest surprises in the East...
production- 4th
plus/minus- 5th
roland rating- 4th

Battie ranks 12th, 12th, and 12th in those same categories.

Stats can definately lie, but these are looking good for the Serb.

I like you Tashawn but the per 48/40 minute stat thing has never done anything for me. Bottom line is results. 5.4 boards a game is mediocre no matter how you slice it. Until I see Darko show these impressive numbers that could result from additional playing time it is all here say.

darko great. Darko not so great. It's looking like that draft pick is getting weaker as the season wears on. I mean we're looking for some sort of break down since the magic are near the top of the east.


Bottom line is the pick ain't lookin' too good and the Darko miscue (below value trade) looks worse every day. I think we are all in agreement on that one!

How about Kevin Durrant for our Orlando pick eh? :eyebrows:

:bs: I have endured much of your confounded Darko logic for a long time...you just stepped over my boundary of tolerance. The only shotblockers I know that are out of position for rebounds are those trying to defend 3's. Am I mistaken? I thought Darko was the NBA's premier paint defender?

Nevermind...silly me...I forgot that Darko can fly :flypig:

well darko does defend 3's. he's one of the best big men at flying out and contesting 3's. what i mean by out of position is he causes the miss and somebody else gets the rebound. darko is a premier defender in the paint or on the outside.

darko can't do it all but i'll admit he isn't a dominant rebounder yet. he is like a 7 foot ak47. you might point out his rebounding fault. but not too many big men come off the bench and do it all like he does. he rebounds, block shots, gets steals, scores, throws dimes and defends.

well darko does defend 3's. he's one of the best big men at flying out and contesting 3's. what i mean by out of position is he causes the miss and somebody else gets the rebound. darko is a premier defender in the paint or on the outside.

darko can't do it all but i'll admit he isn't a dominant rebounder yet. he is like a 7 foot ak47. you might point out his rebounding fault. but not too many big men come off the bench and do it all like he does. he rebounds, block shots, gets steals, scores, throws dimes and defends.

but only blocks shots particularly well...

actually orlando said they will let the market decide darko's value. they will match whatever teams throw at him. otis has the ok from the owners to go into luxury tax to keep the core together. i see the negotiations going smoothly. i see a team offering 60 and orlando matching it.

I don't buy it.

If Orlando plans on matching any offer, why would they let it get that far? The only thing that will do is drive up the price of a guy that they have no intention of letting get away.

If they are so set on keeping him, sign him now, when you're the only team that can offer him a deal.

If that really is true, that Orlando will match anything, if I'm a team in the South East Division I'm offering Darko a max deal at 12:00:01 when FA starts. I'm going to make it as expensive as possible for my rival to do business.

I just don't buy it.

Orlando is still on the fence about Darko, IMO. They bought a project cheap and are still waiting to see what they have. They're talking the talk, but they're going to wait until Darko walks the walk before signing him long term.

I think its funny how bballjay chooses to ignore the points he is routinely smashed with as it pertains to Darko. Its also funny how Darko is the only future all-star in the making that does not have the statistical evidence to prove his value. Perhaps we are seeing the dawn of a new all-star. The first all-star to emerge with no stats. That would truely make Darko legendary. ;)

I think its funny how bballjay chooses to ignore the points he is routinely smashed with as it pertains to Darko. Its also funny how Darko is the only future all-star in the making that does not have the statistical evidence to prove his value. Perhaps we are seeing the dawn of a new all-star. The first all-star to emerge with no stats. That would truely make Darko legendary. ;)


Darko "Mr. 4th Quarter" just came in and played most of the 4th tonight and the Magic got a big win IN UTAH where Utah was the ONLY TEAM YET TO LOSE AT HOME.

Darko played until his 5th foul, came out (Magic were up by 18) and the Jazz promptly went on a 8-0 run and Coach Hill had to put Darko back in. Darko dove on the floor to get a loose ball with about 1:37 left in the game, then he flew at Memo (forcing Memo to get an UP AND DOWN travelling violation) and Memo got so mad that he punched the ball out of bounds and got ejected. Darko came in and HELPED SHUT DOWN THE JAZZ after they had closed the gap to 10 pts.

Darko's IMPACT on the Magic is HUGE, whether or not you want to admit it is up to you, but the results are UNDENIABLE.

Uh, Orlando is an extremely DEEP team, they have a ton of depth.

Grant Hill has missed two games this year, BOTH GAMES were BLOWOUT WINS for the Magic. They are very deep. Their worst depth is at the PF/C spot however and if they lose Dwight Howard they are in a bit of trouble, BUT I think that Battie and Darko would fill in until Dwight could come back and they would do a pretty good job. They wouldn't be as great as they have been early on but they would still be a good basketball team.

If they lose Grant Hill for a whole season that will make them lose. Come the month before playoffs you need leadership because teams will be fighting for the playoffs. Orlando would be screwed if they lost Howard, and if 1 or 2 shooters get a little banged up it will allow teams to cheat and double Howard. As of right now none of that has happened yet so they don't have to worry yet. FYI Pistons are the only team with Arnie Kander.

Darko "Mr. 4th Quarter" just came in and played most of the 4th tonight and the Magic got a big win IN UTAH where Utah was the ONLY TEAM YET TO LOSE AT HOME.

Darko played until his 5th foul, came out (Magic were up by 18) and the Jaz