you need to link that one :loser: for us 'challenged' people.

On the list...

I forgot about the article after the trade. From way back when we drafted him we stated we weren't going to let him lift weights too much because we didn't want him to bulk up because he might lose his mobility or agility or something. He was on a special routine designed by Arnie Kander.

And, of course,... /begin Nicholson/ YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!! /end Nicholson/

for guys who bulk up too much see okafor, kendall gill. makes sense

Ok, Joe screwed up... LB screwed up... Flip screwed up... Ben was the villan... Darko was a terrible victim...

They should all hang their heads in shame and be banned to Siberia.
You guys were the only ones that secretly knew that Darko will be an all star... praise be to the all knowbeings!
Is that good enough?
Almost, what would make me feel really good is if Joe and Co learn from their mistake and DONT repeat it again. We still have Delfino, we still have Amir, and some people even think Jmax can play.

Hopefully the 'Stons finally understand that you have to GIVE youngsters an oppourtunity to prove themselves, even on a championship team.

Sad. Very sad. Well, we can only hope that his new found fire doesn't translate into Orlando spoiling our draft position.

No problem. We'll have a better draft choice than Orlando.:party:

Almost, what would make me feel really good is if Joe and Co learn from their mistake and DONT repeat it again. We still have Delfino, we still have Amir, and some people even think Jmax can play.

Hopefully the 'Stons finally understand that you have to GIVE youngsters an oppourtunity to prove themselves, even on a championship team.
16, One thing we all have in common is a sense of sadness over what happened... the high hopes... the weeding through predraft hype from Serbia... anxiously scanning Chad Ford's Euro diaries...
Hell the day that Memphis lost the ping pong draw it was like Mardi gras & Cinco de Mayo all wrapped in one.
But every team has made mistakes with lotto picks...
Some remember the Vitale fiasco's where he thought the only 1st rounders should come from his U of D team... let's don't even get into him trading away two high picks for Bob McAdoo... that makes the Darko deal look like a steal...
Before that there was more than a decade of draft blunders from the Pistons... poor Lanier & Bing had to suffer through those lean years... as did us die hards.
I'm with you on wanting DMC to get a legit shot and I certainly didn't want him traded while Ben's contract was uncertain... but it's more healthy to move on and accept mistakes made by all parties...
Let's give Joe and LB some credit for wat they did accomplish... would you rather have Tayshaun or Dunleavy?
When Joe said he has no regrets, I trust him that there's more to it than he's letting out.
We certainly understand the pain... but please let's not continue beating ourself over the head with it... it sucks!

All this stuff tells me that there is more going on here that we do not know about. Dumars is not going to slam a guy after a trade so we don't know what was really going on.

Why would he trade this fine bright young prospect for an uncertain pick? Makes no sense. I don't buy the cap angle because he knew what DMC was costing and he knew when Bens contract was up.

The only conclusion unless Dumars has indeed been asleep at the wheel is that there is something up with Darko that we do not know about. Maybe its an attitude problem, problem listening to coaches, who knows?

And on Orlando's end typically you don't let young cornerstones of your franchise sweat it out in team option years to become FA's the following summer.

Stay tuned on this one is all I am saying. Its going to be an interesting side show this season.

Let's give Joe and LB some credit for wat they did accomplish... would you rather have Tayshaun or Dunleavy?
When Joe said he has no regrets, I trust him that there's more to it than he's letting out.
We certainly understand the pain... but please let's not continue beating ourself over the head with it... it sucks!

Have to agree with you on that, and Dunleavy is the definition of a wasted pick. Talk about hype over ability.

All this stuff tells me that there is more going on here that we do not know about. Dumars is not going to slam a guy after a trade so we don't know what was really going on.

Why would he trade this fine bright young prospect for an uncertain pick? Makes no sense. I don't buy the cap angle because he knew what DMC was costing and he knew when Bens contract was up.


it makes sense if ben gave joe a verbal committment that he was going to resign if joe made that money available. darko also requested a trade and wasn't playing hard in practice knowing he would never get a chance in detroit. darko was also our only real trade bait to free up money for ben. i believe ben orchestrated it because even if darko had attitude joe could have sat him for a year and traded him after he found out what was going on with ben.


The only conclusion unless Dumars has indeed been asleep at the wheel is that there is something up with Darko that we do not know about. Maybe its an attitude problem, problem listening to coaches, who knows?

And on Orlando's end typically you don't let young cornerstones of your franchise sweat it out in team option years to become FA's the following summer.


orlando is waiting because they don't know what they have in darko.he's still a largely unknown quantity. he only played like 30 games with them after being basically inactive for 2.5 years. i'd want to check out the guys game before i drop 80 million on him too. i think they still have until the 31st to sign him.

detroit let ben go into unrestricted free agency. the supposed "face of the franchise","heart and soul", "anchor of the defense", "dpoy". so not signing a free agent doesn't mean the guy doesn't have game.

if orlando really had doubts about him they would trade him as soon as possible. his trade value is very high right now i'm sure after last season and the world championships.

i'd want to check out the guys game before i drop 80 million on him too. i think they still have until the 31st to sign him.
I think his agent feels he is worth Samuel Dalembert money, but I doubt he gets it. $80 million? Unlikely.

My guess is that they are going to tender this kid the (IMO) massive qualifying offer ($6.8 million), and see if the market is willing to bid higher.

if orlando really had doubts about him they would trade him as soon as possible. his trade value is very high right now i'm sure after last season and the world championships.
His trade value is low because he's not a veteran (read: not a lot of immediate help for a contender) and his contract is expiring.

I'm telling you right now, his agent has a bad reputation and everyone can see this guy coming from miles away. After what happened with Bonzi and Spree, players and their agents need to be a lot smarter about assessing their true market value, not what they think there value is, or they will end up leaving a LOT of money on the table.

The brief hayday of non-superstar players with potential/upside getting mad money are fast going away.

Larry DID NOT WIN THE TITLE, the PISTONS DID. It was THEIR ACTIONS on the court that won. It was their DESIRE to play hard all the time that won, it was their EFFORT and INTENSITY that WON THE TITLE.

funny, because this is exactly the opposite of how darko plays.

I think his agent feels he is worth Samuel Dalembert money, but I doubt he gets it. $80 million? Unlikely.

My guess is that they are going to tender this kid the (IMO) massive qualifying offer ($6.8 million), and see if the market is willing to bid higher.

80 million was just a number that popped into my head. i'm not sure just how much he will be offered or even how much they could possibly offer. i'm just saying that it's wise for orlando to wait and see just how good darko is before they drop a long term high money contract on him. 30 games isn't enough.


His trade value is low because he's not a veteran (read: not a lot of immediate help for a contender) and his contract is expiring.

I'm telling you right now, his agent has a bad reputation and everyone can see this guy coming from miles away. After what happened with Bonzi and Spree, players and their agents need to be a lot smarter about assessing their true market value, not what they think there value is, or they will end up leaving a LOT of money on the table.

i just brought up his trade value to state that if orlando wasn't sure about him. i'm talking 80% sure that he was going to be a good player then it's best to trade him now. his trade value won't be higher than this year. i guess it will be higher at the trade deadline maybe. any value out of him is better than just losing him in free agency. especially if you aren't high on his talent.

i disagree that he would be immediate help for a contender though. detroit would take him. phoenix would take him. dallas would take him. san antonio would take him.


The brief hayday of non-superstar players with potential/upside getting mad money are fast going away.

yup. now they are giving it to ex-superstars on the decline.

After what happened with Bonzi and Spree, players and their agents need to be a lot smarter about assessing their true market value, not what they think there value is, or they will end up leaving a LOT of money on the table.

The brief hayday of non-superstar players with potential/upside getting mad money are fast going away.
I was thinking the same thing... these agents are gonna start covering their arse... the greedy ones will go home empty handed w/o a client... early offers will be snapped up... both players and agents understand the money is fleeting.... first come first serve

roscoe,

i know i don't have to read the darko thread(s), but is there a way i can make them not appear in my unread posts without losing the Detroit Pistons General Discussion section?? :stirthepot: :) pistonsforum v.3 (summer '07)??

i don't want to read them, but i like to empty my unread posts screen and right now the only way through that is by dreadfully clicking the darko thread and then waiting the requisite 20 seconds until i can move on...

i should add that i have a kind of perverse admiration for those of you who find the patience and energy to continue to participate in a discussion about the young fella

prof, you can always ask for ( http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/pfv2/buttons/report.gif ) a Darko thread move to the NBA forum.

I'll do that now anyways. It's not really a Pistons discussion.

funny, because this is exactly the opposite of how darko plays.

Funny, in 2.5 years, I barely saw Darko play. Funny how you know how he plays with so little of seeing him play.

Remind me again when Darko DID PLAY IN DETROIT? You CAN'T be referring to that 553 minutes spead out over 2.5 seasons worth of games can you?

I did however watch Darko play 30 games in Orlando and YES, that's exactly how he played at most times. He was aggressive and worked hard to do the things necessary to help Orlando finish strong.

Maybe if we ever got to SEE DARKO PLAY, we would have seen what he will become. Unfortunately morons like LB felt the need to diss a talented young player.

I did however watch Darko play 30 games in Orlando and YES, that's exactly how he played at most times. He was aggressive and worked hard to do the things necessary to help Orlando finish strong.

Maybe if we ever got to SEE DARKO PLAY, we would have seen what he will become. Unfortunately morons like LB felt the need to diss a talented young player.

i watched him in orlando, and in the FIBA games, and he looked like the same lethargic player trying to get by on talent alone that i saw in detroit. he's got some inherent skills but he doesn't have the heart or desire.

i'd want to check out the guys game [Darko] before i drop 80 million on him too.


No you wouldn't! You would bring cash in a wheelbarrow if you could!

Orlando Sentnel

"Depleted by injuries, the Magic finished the night with 11 players (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/local/orl-magic0806oct08,0,4013805.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines) after forward Trevor Ariza left the floor to have his right foot treated. The Magic were missing three starters: point guard Jameer Nelson (mild concussion), power forward Tony Battie (sore right knee) and small forward Hedo Turkoglu (flu-like symptoms). Backup point guard and sixth man Carlos Arroyo (strained abdominal muscle) and top rookie guard J.J. Redick (torn tissue on bottom of left foot) also sat out. In keeping with the Red Cross theme, the star of the night, Dwight Howard, wore a bandage over his left eye."

mercury, and that is with 17 players in camp. They really have taken a beating.

But the strange thing is that Grant Hill was one of the healthy ones left on the floor at the end. Will wonders never cease!!

This is going to be a fun season. First time I can remember being this interested in two NBA teams at the same time. I am really planning to get down to the Palace for the two Piston/Magic games, at least. And I am very strongly considering dropping Charter Cable to get a dish so that I can get NBA League Pass. Charter is not carrying it, so bye bye.

With no hesitation, Howard says he's Magic leader - Orlando Sentinel : Orlando Magic (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-hill0806oct08,0,7058627.column?coll=orl-magic)

I got my answer on Saturday -- but long before he answered my question about who was the Magic's leader. The intrasquad scrimmage was supposed to be nothing more than a glorified pickup game, but Howard played as if he were facing the Miami Heat.

He annihilated Darko Milicic, which is no surprise. But this was important because what separates the greats from the mere mortals is they play their hardest no matter if it's Sudoku or a playoff game.
Obviously this Orlando writer is a hater. :rofl:

With no hesitation, Howard says he's Magic leader - Orlando Sentinel : Orlando Magic (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-hill0806oct08,0,7058627.column?coll=orl-magic)


Obviously this Orlando writer is a hater. :rofl:

Easily the highlight of my day. :pound:

Truth is hard to swallow, huh bballjay? :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound:

Easily the highlight of my day. :pound:

Truth is hard to swallow, huh bballjay? :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound:

Actually, she's not a Darko hater, just an all out Dwight lover. Darko represents a threat to her favorite player.

BTW, Darko stuffed Dwight twice in the scrimmage, but was also blocked twice by Dwight and outscored 24-8.

Easily the highlight of my day. :pound:

Truth is hard to swallow, huh bballjay? :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound:

not hard to swallow at all. i think right now that d. howard is a better basketball player than darko. i say darko is the more complete of the two though. she got a little ahead of herself with the annihilated comment. from the other reports i heard this was more of a battle than an annihilation. dwight got the best of the encounter but darko wasn't just making the teams even. i heard it was a heated battle and i'm happy for darko and dwight.

this shouldn't be the highlight of your day. this is the eastern conference nightmare that we'll be seeing for 10 years. don't forget that these 2 are on the same team and will be getting better since they are both super young.

isn't it weird how they reference how howard was babied when he arrived. darko was abused when he arrived with the pistons. there is a difference. but now they are both in the same boat and ready to take the league on together. they have each other's back and aren't trying to backstab or stunt anybody's growth as a player or get anybody shipped out of town (malcontent).

Jay, I saw Howard and Darko play the last 30 games of last season. There is no way Howard is the better player. Howard is a very good player, but Darko's ability to move so well outclasses Howard on D to such a great degree that the rest does not matter. Plus, you know Howard has had a ton of experience playing already while Darko is just getting started. Me, I will be routing for Orlando and both Howard and Darko on an every game basis thru League Pass. I will keep you posted as to which player is improving faster.

Jay, I saw Howard and Darko play the last 30 games of last season. There is no way Howard is the better player. Howard is a very good player, but Darko's ability to move so well outclasses Howard on D to such a great degree that the rest does not matter. Plus, you know Howard has had a ton of experience playing already while Darko is just getting started. Me, I will be routing for Orlando and both Howard and Darko on an every game basis thru League Pass. I will keep you posted as to which player is improving faster.

Welcome back Lee. That's the Lee I know...

Darko > Howard

Umm... No. :(

but now they are both in the same boat and ready to take the league on together. they have each other's back and aren't trying to backstab or stunt anybody's growth as a player or get anybody shipped out of town (malcontent).

Thank God you're with them to validate this, otherwise I would just say you were making it up to boost your arguement.

I know it will not surprise anyone but I too read many reports of the Intra-Squad game and everybody else led with the fact that it was an all-out war between DMC and DH. The lady reporter was the only one who called the way she did.

To me, it made me aware that DMC is competing with the only other player of his age, strengths, and desires, and they are ON THE SAME TEAM.

As the coach said, "it would be foolish to put them together in this game. They used the game to make each other better and to gain more respect for each other.

Lee, I cannot get NBA League Pass with my cable company but intend to ditch Charter for a dish because they DO carry it.

As a matter of fact, Darko blocked Dwight's first shot and then stole the ball from him the next trip down. Probably pissed him off.

Sure shows the difference between playing and sitting on the bench. Would you believe it that the guy playing gets better than the guy sitting on the bench?

Imagine that :rolleyes: .

While Lee is routing for Orlando I will be watching them get routed by the Pistons. :)

Howard is much better than Darko, but he will make Darko so much better because teams have to focus on Howard. When they do Darko will make them pay by creeping out and hitting wide open jumpers. Darko can shoot the ball folks. And he can block shots.

I bet Joe D would love to have another PF that could flat out shoot it and block shots, huh? :sssh:

While Lee is routing for Orlando I will be watching them get routed by the Pistons. :)

Howard is much better than Darko, but he will make Darko so much better because teams have to focus on Howard. When they do Darko will make them pay by creeping out and hitting wide open jumpers. Darko can shoot the ball folks. And he can block shots.

I bet Joe D would love to have another PF that could flat out shoot it and block shots, huh? :sssh:

I agree with this Robert Michael. Playing against Dwight Howard the man-child will only make him get better. I am impressed with how serious Dwight is taking this year. He's always seemed to handle himself in a proffesional manner. I have no doubt that he is a bonafide superstar in the making.

I'm pretty sure that any of the Pistons current centers would also get manhandled by Dwight in practice.

I'm pretty sure that any of the Pistons current centers would also get manhandled by Dwight in practice.

Man handle Sheed? I dunno TaShawn.

There is working hard and then there is that next level. I think DH saw that next level from the superstars this summer. Darko didn't have that 'next level' work ethic that some expected to see. I think "laziness" is an overstatement though. As your game and experience grows, so does your understanding of what it takes to excel.

I woud give darko some time to figure it out. A little success goes a long way sometimes.

Man handle Sheed? I dunno TaShawn.

Dwight plays WAY more physical than Sheed. But Sheed is craftier. Sheed just isn't a center and he's not into man handling.

I know it will not surprise anyone but I too read many reports of the Intra-Squad game and everybody else led with the fact that it was an all-out war between DMC and DH. The lady reporter was the only one who called the way she did.

The lady reporter at the Sentinel is a cause celebre, in spite of any details about her account of the scrimmage whereat the supposed annihilation of Milicic at the hands of Howard. In fact so many, glassy-eyed guys on the Forum display great obeisance for the Lady Reporter after her recent column. Once again there is nothing which looks like details. I only guess that the guys think that the Lady does not need rational information, that she's just an Apotheosis of Basketball. Since it befits an extraordinary situation, I suggest there should be another HOF on the Pistons Forum. I nominate PHOF. The first word is a synonym of cat.

I hope my offering is coherent. I just came out of the hospital for a stroke on Sunday. It so difficult to speak and write fluently. I hate to say how long it took to say what I want to say.

Sure shows the difference between playing and sitting on the bench. Would you believe it that the guy playing gets better than the guy sitting on the bench?
Imagine that :rolleyes: .

I thought it was the opposite way around.

Caliban, I am sure the rest of the forumites join me in telling you how glad we are that you are recovering. Strokes can be bad but some people come through them very well. I know my mother had one at 85 and came through it very well.

Take all the time you need; your posts are worth the wait. Glad to have you aboard.

I agree with Lazy. Take it easy and recover.

It is true that some people were quick to jump on the article because it backed their position...however meritable that article may have been.

TBH, I just posted it because there are some folks who insist that everything with DMC is one sided.

Frankly, I don't care if he becomes the greatest baller of all time. This franchise sent Isaiah Thomas into exile, was so bad that Bob Lanier demanded a trade, and lost Grant Hill to Disneyland long before Darko.

What I do care about is where our pick lands. In this regard (and not because he is a former Piston) I wish him the worst of luck. I hope every shot misses, every block is called a foul, and every pass results in a turnover. For Darko, for Jameer, for Grant and for Dwight Howard.

I want Greg Oden.

You'd have to trade for him or totally tank the season.

Honestly, I was just having fun with bballjay. He's gets SO worked up about his 7 foot Serbian fixation. :) That's why my comments have been limited. In all honesty the article doesn't say much to back up an annihaliton of Darko. It just goes to prove that you can't really take what these columnists say for face value because some have shown they have the inability to be objective. Kinda like somebody I know on the forum. That said, I really hope Darko sucks. Bballjay's world would be turned upside down and we would get a great draft pick. Win. Win. ;)

Honestly, I was just having fun with bballjay. He's gets SO worked up about his 7 foot Serbian fixation. :) That's why my comments have been limited. In all honesty the article doesn't say much to back up an annihaliton of Darko. It just goes to prove that you can't really take what these columnists say for face value because some have shown they have the inability to be objective. Kinda like somebody I know on the forum. That said, I really hope Darko sucks. Bballjay's world would be turned upside down and we would get a great draft pick. Win. Win. ;)

Hardly, jay would just insist there is a conspiracy to keep Darko from showing the world what Detroit was losing and to intentionally keep him from succeeding so they could lock his amazing skill up long-term for very little cash, yada yada, yada....

Motown and Roscoe, Why do you want a great draft pick :rolleyes: ??

You ruined the last one. :messer:

You can't STAND having a great draft pick

Now who is stirring the pot :stirthepot: ??

Now who is stirring the pot :stirthepot: ??
You're ok lazy. But I still want Greg Oden. He's the next David Robinson/Tim Duncan. We get him, you can pencil the Pistons into the 2008 and 2009 Finals.

You'd have to trade for him or totally tank the season.
If Chauncey or Sheed got injured, I would be ok with tanking the season for a franchise stud (dead serious).

Yep, I'm thinking trade. Say our #22 and the #6 for the #1. Maybe toss in Mohammed or a second rounder as well.

No way thats going to work. you gotta give more than that

We will also throw in a re-signed Dale Davis and one fully charged Tazer.

If Chauncey or Sheed got injured, I would be ok with tanking the season for a franchise stud (dead serious).

Yep, I'm thinking trade. Say our #22 and the #6 for the #1. Maybe toss in Mohammed or a second rounder as well.and who that number one be?

GREG ODEN!

Darko will avg 11ppg,5.7 rpg, 2.1bpg and help make Bosh a 24ppg all star THAT BOTH SHOULD BE IN MOLAND!:shout: AHHHHHHH!!

Its amusing how we don't even bother with a thread topic about this guy anymore. Just plain Darko.

to make matters worse, it was split off from a delfino thread.

it looked like darko played pretty bad in his first preseason action.

his stat line was ok. perhaps foul trouble?

I rarely check this thread, but I'm bored. So I apologize for refering to something a few pages back, but I thought Darko was spending a lot of time hitting the weights with Ben when he was a Piston?

I thought I remembered reading/hearing about it a few times. How Ben had taken him under his wing so to speak?

Was he really not lifting weights at all? That seems strange to me. Especially for a still developing 18 year old.

i remember reading comments that he was filling out nicely last season. and not on dunkin' donuts and tim hortonsbreakfast sandwiches

I rarely check this thread, but I'm bored. So I apologize for refering to something a few pages back, but I thought Darko was spending a lot of time hitting the weights with Ben when he was a Piston?

I thought I remembered reading/hearing about it a few times. How Ben had taken him under his wing so to speak?

Was he really not lifting weights at all? That seems strange to me. Especially for a still developing 18 year old.
The first year he was hitting the weights hard... you could see he was bulking up (263LBs after first year)... I remember an article in the 2nd year where they were talking about the effects of weight lifting on his touch... I think that's when they backed it off.
Remember in the first year when he tossed Collins (Utah) around like a rag doll.

I'm excited to see the new Darko movie...

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/553/darkomovieze7.jpg

Dude, where's his mustache? That's the best Darko of them all.

Shhhhhhh....... don't tell Bballjay, but Darko is being outplayed by Maxiell during the preseason. ...and Darko has had more minutes.

Darko's stats:

PPG 9.5 RPG 5.0 APG 3.0 SPG .25 BPG .50 FG% .394 FT% .706 3P% .000 MPG 25.8

J-Max's stats:

PPG 14.3 RPG 5.8 APG 0.0 SPG .75 BPG 2.00 FG% .533 FT% .568 3P% .000 MPG 23.3

Darko also fouled out in the last game and is having problems showing his "shot blocking dominance", but don't tell bballjay. He's really sensitive about that. ;)

we have to show the league some shock value!!!...PLAY THE BULL 15 MPG!!!!

I like the head-to-head comparison between J to the Max and D-arko. They are both playing well... but Maxiel seems to be on the mission that we all wish Milicic would have gone on. The mission to lift off the bench .

I like the head-to-head comparison between J to the Max and D-arko. They are both playing well... but Maxiel seems to be on the mission that we all wish Milicic would have gone on. The mission to lift off the bench .

..actually I wouldn't say both are playing well right now. 39% shooting and half a block a game is pretty poor...at least for a future Hall of Famer. (I'm really just poking fun of the situation right now. How glorious it would be if this trend continued throughout the preseason!)

def. mediocre. both of them.

..actually I wouldn't say both are playing well right now. 39% shooting and half a block a game is pretty poor...at least for a future Hall of Famer. (I'm really just poking fun of the situation right now. How glorious it would be if this trend continued throughout the preseason!)

When I say playing "well", I mean that he is playing about how Dyess plays... except he passes better and shoots a lower %.

Dyess 2005-06
21 mpg/ 7.8 points/ 5.3 rebounds/ 1.1 assist/ .59 blocks/ .56 steals

Darko
25.8 mpg/ 9.5 points/ 5.0 rebounds/ 3.0 assists/ .50 blocks/ .25 steals

Shhhhhhh....... don't tell Bballjay, but Darko is being outplayed by Maxiell during the preseason. ...and Darko has had more minutes.

Darko's stats:

PPG 9.5 RPG 5.0 APG 3.0 SPG .25 BPG .50 FG% .394 FT% .706 3P% .000 MPG 25.8

J-Max's stats:

PPG 14.3 RPG 5.8 APG 0.0 SPG .75 BPG 2.00 FG% .533 FT% .568 3P% .000 MPG 23.3

Darko also fouled out in the last game and is having problems showing his "shot blocking dominance", but don't tell bballjay. He's really sensitive about that. ;)

look at jmax's assist total. has he had one this preseason??

i love the way jmax plays. he's very aggressive offensively. jmax also doesn't have to share the rock/rebounds with a superstar.

darko has to play robin to d. howard and i think he is perfect for that role. he prefers it i think. pippen never put up the stats that jordan did but jordan wouldn't have won all those championships without him.

i agree jmax is having a better preseason. he's having a better preseason than sheed, mcdyess and nazr too.

the big difference is that with Jmax, you know what you're going to get. You can count on that.

the big difference is that with Jmax, you know what you're going to get. You can count on that.

Which is? JMax is playing well in pre-season games, but he played horrible in summer league, and I've yet to see him play well in real game time. Hopefully he's turned the corner, and he'll carry this into the regular season, but from what I've seen in the past JMax is still an undersized, slow, blackhole, no defense, power forward. But he can dunk over and through people.

As for Darko, nice article on him today:
Darko Milicic held the ball overhead at the high post, faked a pass to Dwight Howard's left hand to bait the defender and then flung a perfect bounce pass to the Orlando Magic center for a thunderous dunk.

It was just one isolated play from the Orlando Magic's preseason home opener Tuesday night, but it was also a play that showed the endless possibilities with the two 20-something power forwards on the floor together.

Because their skills differ so greatly -- Howard batters foes with his power and athleticism, while Milicic is more finesse with his passing and feathery outside touch -- they mesh well together along the Magic's starting line.

The biggest reason Darko busted here was not lack of effort, but insisting he be something that he isn't. He's no more a bruiser than JMax is a finesse player. The shame is, considering their complimenting skill sets, Darko and JMax could have made a pretty good tandom.

look at jmax's assist total. has he had one this preseason??

i love the way jmax plays. he's very aggressive offensively. jmax also doesn't have to share the rock/rebounds with a superstar.

darko has to play robin to d. howard and i think he is perfect for that role. he prefers it i think. pippen never put up the stats that jordan did but jordan wouldn't have won all those championships without him.

i agree jmax is having a better preseason. he's having a better preseason than sheed, mcdyess and nazr too.

so thats your excuse for him hitting less than 40% from the field and only averaging a half a block a game? lol. He was wearing his Robin costume. Good one. :)

I don't really think his Robin costume is causing the lack of blocks. He did lead the World Championships in blocks this past summer. As we all know, the pre-season is not a good test, but the World Championships were.

I believe that it is mostly because he is not being challenged as much here due to his reputation as a shot blocker. Instead, right now they are challenging Dwight and he is getting the blocks.


If you guys stop talking about it for a while, maybe the NBA players will forget and start challenging him again. :rolleyes: :pound:

Shhhhhhh....... don't tell Bballjay, but Darko is being outplayed by Maxiell during the preseason. ...and Darko has had more minutes.

Darko's stats:

PPG 9.5 RPG 5.0 APG 3.0 SPG .25 BPG .50 FG% .394 FT% .706 3P% .000 MPG 25.8

J-Max's stats:

PPG 14.3 RPG 5.8 APG 0.0 SPG .75 BPG 2.00 FG% .533 FT% .568 3P% .000 MPG 23.3

Darko also fouled out in the last game and is having problems showing his "shot blocking dominance", but don't tell bballjay. He's really sensitive about that. ;)

Hey don't be so modest. It's also time to let everyone know that, during this pre-season, Nazr Muhammad makes like Shaq and Garnett look like Tom Nivens and Reggie Harding. :sssh: Nevertheless, I hope both keep on track.

I don't get it. Maxiell has shown the same attack the basket aggressiveness that he showed last year in garbage time that he does in this preseason...the biggest difference is that he is getting more of it.
People like to bring up the whole black hole thing but this guy is the point of the spear...all you need him to do is puncture the defence and stab them in the heart while your main guys catch a breather. The guy gets results.

Off the bench we need finishers. And while Delfino is struggling with that, JMax is proving it with each game.

As much as I'd like to see Jmax use Darko's forhead as a stepladder I'm not sure this would be a good matchup for the Brahma.... I would have payed double to see the Pistons real training camp last year just to get a first hand view of how DMC competed against Jmax, and the other bigs.

As we all know, the pre-season is not a good test, but the World Championships were.

even though that's what most darko die-hards were touting (the potential and blocking ability) all of last year? singing a different tune now that he's not blocking as many shots, eh?

I don't get it. Maxiell has shown the same attack the basket aggressiveness that he showed last year in garbage time that he does in this preseason...the biggest difference is that he is getting more of it.
People like to bring up the whole black hole thing but this guy is the point of the spear...all you need him to do is puncture the defence and stab them in the heart while your main guys catch a breather. The guy gets results.
He has never gotten results in real game time minutes. Doesn't mean he can't, just means he hasn't. Right now I doubt people are playing that tough a D, especially for big men.

Right now, JMax is trying to show that he can score and get put backs, which he has done. He still needs to show he can play D and get defensive boards.

Darko is trying to develop a rhythm with Dwight, and work on his D. If Darko shot every time he touched the ball, like JMax, I doubt B Hill would be very happy.

BTW, other than Joey D, I bet every GM in the league would stil pick Darko over JMax.

so thats your excuse for him hitting less than 40% from the field and only averaging a half a block a game? lol. He was wearing his Robin costume. Good one. :)

my guess for him hitting 40% from the field is that he is an outside player. he has had some games where he shot really badly. he bulked up in the summer and it might take him a minute to get used to it.

blocked shots are a mystery because i'm not watching the games. i do know he used to get robbed of block stats while he was here. i also think the emergence of d. howard on the defensive end is taking a lot of pressure off darko to block shots. teams know not to come in the paint against orlando.

what's your excuse for jmax not getting any assists?? jmax and darko will never match up well in terms of stats. i think jmax is just a more selfish player and darko isn't so he'll never put up lots of numbers besides assists. isn't it great to get 3 assists from your pf. darko would rather drop dimes to d.howard than jack up a shot every time he touches it like jmax.

my guess for him hitting 40% from the field is that he is an outside player. he has had some games where he shot really badly. he bulked up in the summer and it might take him a minute to get used to it.

blocked shots are a mystery because i'm not watching the games. i do know he used to get robbed of block stats while he was here. i also think the emergence of d. howard on the defensive end is taking a lot of pressure off darko to block shots. teams know not to come in the paint against orlando.

what's your excuse for jmax not getting any assists?? jmax and darko will never match up well in terms of stats. i think jmax is just a more selfish player and darko isn't so he'll never put up lots of numbers besides assists. isn't it great to get 3 assists from your pf. darko would rather drop dimes to d.howard than jack up a shot every time he touches it like jmax.
Darko's FG% is not that big of a deal. He had two shooting nights that were terrible...other than that he pretty much rocked it. His hustle stats are down from last preseason probably because he is starting. He has a responsibility to play under control and not take as many risks but that should balance out too.

As for MAxiell, the guy is a finisher. He is the guy that you give the ball to at the end to cap off a play. Jmax played 22 mpg so far. He shot 54 Free throws!!! That is more than D.HO and Darko COMBINED. D.HO and Darko COMBINED to sink 27 free throws while Jmax and his weak FT% still got 31.
I'm not talking about Howard and Milicic...I'm talking about Maxiell. The guy attacks and he's drawn fouls. He's shot 53%. Why do you want him to pass? That's what we have Will, Carlos and Flip for.

my guess for him hitting 40% from the field is that he is an outside player. he has had some games where he shot really badly. he bulked up in the summer and it might take him a minute to get used to it.

blocked shots are a mystery because i'm not watching the games. i do know he used to get robbed of block stats while he was here. i also think the emergence of d. howard on the defensive end is taking a lot of pressure off darko to block shots. teams know not to come in the paint against orlando.

what's your excuse for jmax not getting any assists?? jmax and darko will never match up well in terms of stats. i think jmax is just a more selfish player and darko isn't so he'll never put up lots of numbers besides assists. isn't it great to get 3 assists from your pf. darko would rather drop dimes to d.howard than jack up a shot every time he touches it like jmax.

Shoots under 40% (you forgot the under part buddy..I'm sure that was by mistake though, right?) because he is an outside player....that's a good one. Most would think that if you shoot under 40% that doesn't make you an outside player..but I digress. I'm sure Darko will get it going again but its funny to hear how you make every excuse in the world to defend the fact that he has sucked so far in the preseason. Last year when he was successful with blocking shots during the preseason you used that as the premise for every arguement that validated his future Hall of Fame status. Ironically, this year his inability to perform must be the weights and the fact that he is so excited about wearing his Robin costume. Whatever supports your arguement, right? Here's a novel idea.... Maybe, just maybe.....Darko still has alot of development to do this year before he can be a force in the league. Nah...that would take away from the Legend of the Serbian Fire Truck Captain. :pound:

Maxiel, on the other hand... WOW! This dude is a beast! He no need to pass. Hulk smash players. Hulk smash ball into rim. Hulk SMASH! SMASH! SMASH! The thing I like about J-Max is that we've never had to make excuses for this guy...he just performs. Its refreshing not to go through piles and piles of psycho babble about the proper lighting, ergonomically correct sneakers, pats on the back, and inspirational speeches required to show up to work and receive a million dollar paycheck.

My prediction....

J-Max will dunk hard on Darko this year and that hilarious moment will be captured in my avatar the following day without hesitation. :)

My prediction....

J-Max will dunk hard on Darko this year and that hilarious moment will be captured in my avatar the following day without hesitation. :)

:pound:

Milicic the enigma...some believe in him and some don't.

Dumars probably refers to him as the "immaculate deception".

The Pistons never promoted Darko they way they have promoted Maxiell.

You'd like to think the players make their own legend, but the marketing machine is in the drivers seat.

The Pistons never promoted Darko they way they have promoted Maxiell.

You'd like to think the players make their own legend, but the marketing machine is in the drivers seat.

Trust me...I don't blame Darko for the hype that has become his legend. He's never really done anything in a Pistons uniform to invite infinite praise or complete disdain. He is simply what happens when a talented kid in need of motivation gets drafted to a team that requires tremendous self-motivation to break the lineup. His biggest problem in this league has continuously been that SO much is expected out of him. So much so that learning the game under a realistic timeline is often never a part of Darko discussions. If Darko is predicted and selected as a 10th pick for instance, would there be any Darko debate? Opinions of him are often on each side of the spectrum. This has to be difficult for Darko, but hey, he gets paid to learn his job without any real seasoned skills. Hard to feel sorry for him.

As for MAxiell, the guy is a finisher. He is the guy that you give the ball to at the end to cap off a play. Jmax played 22 mpg so far. He shot 54 Free throws!!! That is more than D.HO and Darko COMBINED. D.HO and Darko COMBINED to sink 27 free throws while Jmax and his weak FT% still got 31.
I'm not talking about Howard and Milicic...I'm talking about Maxiell. The guy attacks and he's drawn fouls. He's shot 53%. Why do you want him to pass? That's what we have Will, Carlos and Flip for.

i don't want him to pass.

he doesn't force many shots and the ones that are forced usually end up with him getting fouled. he is also starting to hit those free throws. i just was pointing out his black hole status to make a point of why his stats will always be different from darko.


Shoots under 40% (you forgot the under part buddy..I'm sure that was by mistake though, right?) because he is an outside player....that's a good one. Most would think that if you shoot under 40% that doesn't make you an outside player..but I digress.

i'm saying he shoots 40% because he shoots mostly jumpshots. 40% from the outside with a few horrible games dragging that percentage down isn't bad at all.


I'm sure Darko will get it going again but its funny to hear how you make every excuse in the world to defend the fact that he has sucked so far in the preseason. Last year when he was successful with blocking shots during the preseason you used that as the premise for every arguement that validated his future Hall of Fame status. Ironically, this year his inability to perform must be the weights and the fact that he is so excited about wearing his Robin costume. Whatever supports your arguement, right? Here's a novel idea.... Maybe, just maybe.....Darko still has alot of development to do this year before he can be a force in the league. Nah...that would take away from the Legend of the Serbian Fire Truck Captain. :pound:

darko has only sucked when you only look at stats. reports out of orlando is that he is playing well and deserving to start. he isn't blocking many shots but doing plenty of intimidation. there is no intimidation stat for us to look at.


Maxiel, on the other hand... WOW! This dude is a beast! He no need to pass. Hulk smash players. Hulk smash ball into rim. Hulk SMASH! SMASH! SMASH! The thing I like about J-Max is that we've never had to make excuses for this guy...he just performs. Its refreshing not to go through piles and piles of psycho babble about the proper lighting, ergonomically correct sneakers, pats on the back, and inspirational speeches required to show up to work and receive a million dollar paycheck.

maxiell is on the court and we are getting to see what he can do that is why there is less speculation. ben and darko gone, davis hurt, sheed and dice coasting is the perfect oppurtunity for maxiell to show what he can do. darko never had an oppurtunity like that. it's weird that you always like to point at darko vs. jmax. i'm pissed that it's not a frontcourt of darko, jmax and amir coming off our bench.


My prediction....

J-Max will dunk hard on Darko this year and that hilarious moment will be captured in my avatar the following day without hesitation. :)

jmax can't bulldoze darko he's too big and his arms are just as long as maxiell's. i predict lots of charges this year for maxiell. i predict darko will take maxiell inside and outside and shut him down offensively.

Trust me...I don't blame Darko for the hype that has become his legend. He's never really done anything in a Pistons uniform to invite infinite praise or complete disdain. He is simply what happens when a talented kid in need of motivation gets drafted to a team that requires tremendous self-motivation to break the lineup. His biggest problem in this league has continuously been that SO much is expected out of him. So much so that learning the game under a realistic timeline is often never a part of Darko discussions. If Darko is predicted and selected as a 10th pick for instance, would there be any Darko debate? Opinions of him are often on each side of the spectrum. This has to be difficult for Darko, but hey, he gets paid to learn his job without any real seasoned skills. Hard to feel sorry for him.

ben gone + darko gone + davis injured + sheed coasting + dice coasting + flip getting a stern talking to from joe d = maxiell getting some playing time.

that's called the stars aligning not self motivation. if darko had the same oppurtunity we'd see a different darko than we saw in his piston uni.

the biggest motivator to darko was playing time and the coaches wouldn't give him that. maxiell sees light at the tunnel so that his effort will be rewarded. darko's effort wasn't so therefore his motivation level dropped. he was basically waiting to be traded or be a free agent.

Jay, you are like Linus in the pumpkin patch waiting for the Great Pumpkin to arise.

"It doesn't matter what you believe as long as you are sincere."

i'm saying he shoots 40% because he shoots mostly jumpshots. 40% from the outside with a few horrible games dragging that percentage down isn't bad at all.

Actually, unless you are talking about 3 pointers, 39% jump shooting is not good. Sorry, to break it to ya.



darko has only sucked when you only look at stats. reports out of orlando is that he is playing well and deserving to start. he isn't blocking many shots but doing plenty of intimidation. there is no intimidation stat for us to look at.

Sounds like the arguement we've used to defend Ben from your attacks the past year. You might want to rethink that one.


maxiell is on the court and we are getting to see what he can do that is why there is less speculation. ben and darko gone, davis hurt, sheed and dice coasting is the perfect oppurtunity for maxiell to show what he can do. darko never had an oppurtunity like that. it's weird that you always like to point at darko vs. jmax. i'm pissed that it's not a frontcourt of darko, jmax and amir coming off our bench.

I point it out because they have approached the game differently. I've yet to see J-Max not take advantage of the time given to him. We could have used him more last year...but we didn't. Doesn't appear to have hurt his motivation, huh?


jmax can't bulldoze darko he's too big and his arms are just as long as maxiell's. i predict lots of charges this year for maxiell. i predict darko will take maxiell inside and outside and shut him down offensively.

He can...and he will. ...and I'll be laughing at you as you wait for the Great Pumpkin to arrive. :pound:

Just to get statistical for a moment, the sample size is a bit small.

Through 1 game, Darko shot 50%. Through 2 games, 50%. Through 3 games, 48%, and due to a 1-8 performance, this has dropped to 39%. It is like an early season batting average in baseball. Neifi Perez may look like an all star after 4 games.

When you incorporate all of Darko's scoring, it shows that so far this year, he scores 1.15 points per shot for an effective field goal percentage of 58%.


Maxiel's points per shot are off the charts though. He gets 2.028 points per shot for an eFG of 101%!!! 71 points off of 35 shots. He does it by making a high % from the floor and getting fouled a LOT. If he were an 80% free throw shooter, then his eFG would be 119%.

For everyone excited about Maxiell making a contribution this year, here is a flashback to last year's preseason:

"AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Five observations from Pistons camp:

1. Not-So-Dark Days: Darko Milicic (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3705), blocking shots?


Darko Milicic, scoring points in crunch time?

Darko Milicic, actually calling for the ball?

The Pistons have seen all of the above from the 2003 No. 2 overall pick in the first two weeks of the season. After two years of inactivity (and worse) under Larry Brown, Darko is finally getting a chance to contribute from Flip Saunders.

"Darko's looking really good," teammate Chauncey Billups (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3174) said. "I'm proud of him.""

Marc Stein

For everyone excited about Maxiell making a contribution this year, here is a flashback to last year's preseason:

"AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Five observations from Pistons camp:

1. Not-So-Dark Days: Darko Milicic (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3705), blocking shots?


Darko Milicic, scoring points in crunch time?

Darko Milicic, actually calling for the ball?

The Pistons have seen all of the above from the 2003 No. 2 overall pick in the first two weeks of the season. After two years of inactivity (and worse) under Larry Brown, Darko is finally getting a chance to contribute from Flip Saunders.

"Darko's looking really good," teammate Chauncey Billups (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3174) said. "I'm proud of him.""

Marc Stein

So true Tashawn. Call me crazy but I get the feeling we will actually see this carry into the regular season this year though. The management, the coaches, the players, the media and the fans are all ready for the Brahma Bull to be unleased! :)

Too bad they aren't writing those things about him anymore

They are, just not in the Detroit news.

Here is a recent FL Today article:


JACKSONVILLE - In a matter of two very telling possessions, Darko Milicic gave a brief glimpse Wednesday as to why the Orlando Magic desperately want him to emerge as their starting power forward.
Milicic took the ball at the top of the key, and after noticing that rookie James Augustine had backed off, the sweet-shooting lefthander buried a 20-foot jump shot.
Seconds later, after his squad got the ball again, Milicic used his noticeably larger 270-pound frame to pin Augustine back helplessly beneath the basket. The 7-footer then sank an uncontested hook shot from point-blank range.
Dwight Howard, Grant Hill and Jameer Nelson are the unquestioned stars of the Magic, but no player has garnered more attention so far in training camp than the 21-year-old Milicic. That's because the Magic coaches and players view Milicic as a rising star loaded with gobs of talent and potential.

Just to get statistical for a moment, the sample size is a bit small.

Through 1 game, Darko shot 50%. Through 2 games, 50%. Through 3 games, 48%, and due to a 1-8 performance, this has dropped to 39%. It is like an early season batting average in baseball. Neifi Perez may look like an all star after 4 games.

When you incorporate all of Darko's scoring, it shows that so far this year, he scores 1.15 points per shot for an effective field goal percentage of 58%.


Maxiel's points per shot are off the charts though. He gets 2.028 points per shot for an eFG of 101%!!! 71 points off of 35 shots. He does it by making a high % from the floor and getting fouled a LOT. If he were an 80% free throw shooter, then his eFG would be 119%.

He's actually shot the ball 62 times, in 111 minutes, if you count the times he was fouled. 27 shots a game in 48 minute stats. That can't be good. And you have to wonder if JMax gets the ball, does the rest of the team just stop and wait for him to shoot?

You have to respect the foul damage he is doing to the other team though. Maybe we should play him for the first 5 minutes of each quarter. Chauncey can kill them with his 90% once we are in the bonus.

Sounds like the arguement we've used to defend Ben from your attacks the past year. You might want to rethink that one.


i haven't watched him this year so i can only go by what i hear on forums and that's what they are saying.


I point it out because they have approached the game differently. I've yet to see J-Max not take advantage of the time given to him. We could have used him more last year...but we didn't. Doesn't appear to have hurt his motivation, huh?


maxiell wasn't glued to the bench for 2.5 years. yeah i think his motivation level is a little higher than darko's. jmax wasn't constantly humiliated by his coach. maxiell wasn't losing playing time to darvin ham. jmax wasn't sitting on the bench being told to earn it while anybody that stepped off the street came in and got playing time. yes. i agree their motivation level is different but the handling by the organization was also very different.


He can...and he will. ...and I'll be laughing at you as you wait for the Great Pumpkin to arrive. :pound:

i know the great pumpkin isn't going to arrive. jmax thought it was a ball and he already shot it. nothing ball shaped gets out of the black hole.

maxiell wasn't glued to the bench for 2.5 years. yeah i think his motivation level is a little higher than darko's.




It didn't take Darko 2.5 years to show no effort. He did that almost immediately. He also seemed to do it compulsively, which is why he sat on the bench.

Darko's motivation should have been much higher than Darko's. In fact, as a 2nd round pick, his motivation should have been in the millions.

I heard a rookie ran Darko over last night and Brian Hill is livid. Anybody hear the whole story on what happened?

Darko supposedly hurt his back and is day to day..............

Ran him over on the court playing that is..........if anyone is thinking a Stephen Jackson run down...............

He's actually shot the ball 62 times, in 111 minutes, if you count the times he was fouled. 27 shots a game in 48 minute stats. That can't be good. And you have to wonder if JMax gets the ball, does the rest of the team just stop and wait for him to shoot?
Reality...altering before my very eyes! At a 2.028 pts per shot, Maxiel would get 54 pts per 48. Even at 30 minutes you are looking at 34 pts pergame. Bad?

Are you tuning into the games? Because my recollection is a lot different. Flip dumps it to maxiel for the jam. Delfino on the break...pass to maxiel and he dunks it. Delfino feeds maxiel in the post...and he's fouled. The guy does not back his man down. He's not going to put a series of fakes. He's too short for that. he is going to explode before the defense can react and see how that works.

IF all he did was fadeway jumpers hitting front iron, I'd have a problem with that but he's taking it strong and he's not turning the ball over a lot and he's drawing fouls.

Apparently the Magic are sending tape to the league and Darko's back may be hurt. There is an article on it in "Florida Today"

I heard a rookie ran Darko over last night and Brian Hill is livid. Anybody here the whole story on what happened?

Darko supposedly hurt his back and is day to day..............

Ran him over on the court playing that is..........if anyone is thinking a Stephen Jackson run down...............
Sheldon Williams bulldozed Darko while trying to get to the basket. Said that he lifted Darko up...and that pointed to an offensive foul. The Hill incident wasn't about the hit but that they didn't call a foul on Williams since the contact basically injured his key guy.

Are you tuning into the games? Because my recollection is a lot different. Flip dumps it to maxiel for the jam. Delfino on the break...pass to maxiel and he dunks it. Delfino feeds maxiel in the post...and he's fouled. The guy does not back his man down. He's not going to put a series of fakes. He's too short for that. he is going to explode before the defense can react and see how that works.

Havent seen any non Knicks preseason games, so take my judgements for what they're worth. But if what you're saying is true, fantastic. More reason for Flip to play the bench, and another good reason to play guys that shoot (JMax) and guys that distribute (Delfino) together.

As for the Darko foul, Darko went up for a block, and some goon put a shoulder into Darko's back, in front of the ref, and no foul.
Reality is JMax is aggressive, Darko is finesse. Both ways have their places. Compare Tay with Ben. Problem is most people refuse to accept a finesse power forward. As a go to guy, their probably right. Matched with D HO, watch out.

Sheldon Williams bulldozed Darko while trying to get to the basket. Said that he lifted Darko up...and that pointed to an offensive foul. The Hill incident wasn't about the hit but that they didn't call a foul on Williams since the contact basically injured his key guy.

Darko went up to block a shot, and the offensive player purposely ducked under him and basically bulled him over. No, it was not a situation where a guy fakes a guy off his feet and ducks under. Darko had a clean block, and then got bulled over. (At least, Orlando contends this, and admits they did not capture a very good shot of the incident.)

BTW,
Orlando's opinion of Darko is that he is one of the cornerstones of the franchise, basically D Ho's Pippen. From ESPN:

Told he had to become bigger and meaner if he was ever going to reach his potential, Milicic spent four days a week lifting weights this summer. He not only bulked up from 260 pounds to 278 pounds but also had his way with Spain's Pau Gasol (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3513) and China's Yao Ming (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3599) in the World Championship.

Smith and Magic head coach Brian Hill needed little time to see that with Milicic's newfound dedication, combined with his overflowing arsenal of skills, it was time to promote him to the starting lineup.

"I tell people we'll be as good as those two 20-something-year-old kids take us," Smith said, referring to Howard and Milicic.

Howard's relentless aggression has seemed to rub off on Milicic, and at times the possibilities seem limitless for the Magic when the two are on the court together. Because their skills are so different -- Howard brings the powerful low-post game, while Milicic has a feathery-soft shooting touch and the passing skills of a guard -- they seem like a match made in heaven. In a preseason game this week against Atlanta, the two displayed their blossoming chemistry by assisting one another on five different baskets.

This should have been Darko and JMax, nice job Joe.

16, I'm not hassling, but please always link to anything you quote as a sign of credit. We're not "licenced" for reprint without permission. Credit is typically a good faith workaround. :)

Everyones hanging out in the Darko thread, as usual.

Howard's relentless aggression.....

Howard brings the powerful low-post game.....

Sounds like a good future FA target to me. :fingerscr

It didn't take Darko 2.5 years to show no effort. He did that almost immediately. He also seemed to do it compulsively, which is why he sat on the bench.

Darko's motivation should have been much higher than Darko's. In fact, as a 2nd round pick, his motivation should have been in the millions.

Un...Huh.. That's exactly how I remember it.

But wait...
That can't be true. It doesn't support bballjay's arguement. :laugh:

Sounds like a good future FA target to me. :fingerscr

Howard to the Pistons would be awesome! I doubt if Orlando ever lets him go though. They'll reup him wayyy before that happens.

16, I'm not hassling, but please always link to anything you quote as a sign of credit. We're not "licenced" for reprint without permission. Credit is typically a good faith workaround. :)
Not a prob.

From ESPN:

ESPN.com - NBA/TRAININGCAMP06 - Denton: Orlando's ready to believe in Magic (http://tinyurl.com/yx37yk)

Maxiel's points per shot are off the charts though. He gets 2.028 points per shot for an eFG of 101%!!! 71 points off of 35 shots. He does it by making a high % from the floor and getting fouled a LOT. If he were an 80% free throw shooter, then his eFG would be 119%.
TaShawn, do you go back to the BadBoys days? Maxiell reminds me of Dantley.

His black-hole-edness, his game almost exclusively in the paint, and his ability to draw fouls with contact.

Obviously AD was a more polished scorer and rebounder, but it would be neat to look at his eFG and True Shooting #s contrasted with JMax.

And admittedly, it is only the preseason...

TaShawn, do you go back to the BadBoys days? Maxiell reminds me of Dantley.

His black-hole-edness, his game almost exclusively in the paint, and his ability to draw fouls with contact.

Obviously AD was a more polished scorer and rebounder, but it would be neat to look at his eFG and True Shooting #s contrasted with JMax.

And admittedly, it is only the preseason...

Yeah, I was playing Middle School ball when the bad boys were dominating.

So, here are Dantley's numbers during the 3 seasons that he was in Detroit.

192 games. 3,894 points. 2,484 field goal attempts.

That means that he averaged 1.57 points per shot.

eFG of 78%.*

He had 8 Free throw attempts per game (12 per 48 minutes).


I have to bring up the small data set for JMax, because we are only looking at 5 games worth. If he kept up his current pace, he would be the greatest player in NBA history. I think that it is safe to say that he has a nice touch and a natural ability to get fouled.

* by the way, I'm not using the true definition of eFG%, since I am also including point off of free throws in the numerator. I'm not sure what the stat I am using is called. Maybe modified eFG.

TaShawn, do you go back to the BadBoys days? Maxiell reminds me of Dantley.

His black-hole-edness, his game almost exclusively in the paint, and his ability to draw fouls with contact.

Obviously AD was a more polished scorer and rebounder, but it would be neat to look at his eFG and True Shooting #s contrasted with JMax.

And admittedly, it is only the preseason...

I still model my free throw routine after AD. Hey, remember when someone stole his special made shoe. If I remember the story correctly one of his legs was apparently much longer than the other.

Un...Huh.. That's exactly how I remember it.

But wait...
That can't be true. It doesn't support bballjay's arguement. :laugh:

i don't remember it like that. i remember a guy that played the game and made it look effortless. i remember the infamous "free throw line" dunk. he just soared and ran back down the court like it was nothing. i remember him throwing an effortless 1 handed touch pass on the break. i remember him throwing a precision oop to ben. don't mistake having so much game that you make the game look effortless with lack of effort. the two things are not the same.

just because a guy jacks up lots of shots during garbage time doesn't mean he's giving all out effort. how many times last year when jmax was making the most of his "time" did he try to rebound / pass / get a steal or check the pick and roll??? all i remember is a guy getting in there and trying to shoot as much as possible. if you want to call that effort.

i believe darko took that attitude about garbage time because he knew he was better than that. lb should never have had to try to "teach" darko a lesson. he should have treated him like a # 2 pick. you treat your # 2 pick like a undrafted free agent then you look around and act surprised that he sulks and wants a trade.

i don't remember it like that. i remember a guy that played the game and made it look effortless. i remember the infamous "free throw line" dunk. he just soared and ran back down the court like it was nothing. i remember him throwing an effortless 1 handed touch pass on the break. i remember him throwing a precision oop to ben. don't mistake having so much game that you make the game look effortless with lack of effort. the two things are not the same.

just because a guy jacks up lots of shots during garbage time doesn't mean he's giving all out effort. how many times last year when jmax was making the most of his "time" did he try to rebound / pass / get a steal or check the pick and roll??? all i remember is a guy getting in there and trying to shoot as much as possible. if you want to call that effort.

i believe darko took that attitude about garbage time because he knew he was better than that. lb should never have had to try to "teach" darko a lesson. he should have treated him like a # 2 pick. you treat your # 2 pick like a undrafted free agent then you look around and act surprised that he sulks and wants a trade.

Exactly. So since you choose not to remember anything but his highlight film your opinion should be taken with that in mind. Extremely biased with rose colored Darko shades.

There is no excuse for not going hard when you get paid that much money. Its unproffesional. You can accuse other players of the same thing...that's fine. But it was still unproffesional and did nothing to build his case for playing time. Measure everyone with the same stick is all I'm saying. Sure managment didn't give him enough shots, but Darko didn't make it THAT difficult for them to keep him off the floor no matter what your highlight film memory may suggest.

Exactly. So since you choose not to remember anything but his highlight film your opinion should be taken with that in mind. Extremely biased with rose colored Darko shades.

everyone's vision is biased. look at what you choose to remember about ben. i just wasn't expecting greatness and consistency from him as a 18 year old. i saw enough flashes of it that i know i wanted to see more. too bad i'll be seeing it in an orlando uniform.


There is no excuse for not going hard when you get paid that much money. Its unproffesional. You can accuse other players of the same thing...that's fine. But it was still unproffesional and did nothing to build his case for playing time. Measure everyone with the same stick is all I'm saying. Sure managment didn't give him enough shots, but Darko didn't make it THAT difficult for them to keep him off the floor no matter what your highlight film memory may suggest.

your boy ben didn't go hard in crunch time. it didn't hurt his case for playing time. you know why??? because it doesn't matter what anybody does minutes on the pistons was already set in the coaches head. hence the exodus of talent from the pistons.

well on the pistons playing time is not earned. this year may be the first year in about 5 years that a player can actually "earn" some minutes. there wasn't a case to build. it was just simply you aren't a veteran so you aren't going to play. it's crazy that you think darvin ham was making it difficult for lb to keep him off the floor. mo evans was making it difficult for flip to keep him off the floor.

there is no building of a case. thats like going to jail in china or somewhere and asking for your lawyer and 1 phone call. you better just learn chinese and make the best of the situation until you are rescued. there is no case to build because the verdict is already in.

everyone's vision is biased. look at what you choose to remember about ben. i just wasn't expecting greatness and consistency from him as a 18 year old. i saw enough flashes of it that i know i wanted to see more. too bad i'll be seeing it in an orlando uniform.

No bball jay, not everyone is so biased where they can't see objectively. We went through an exercise where I told you all of the negatives to having Ben on the team. I am very realistic about how he has hurt and helped the team.

You were unable to complete that exercise for Darko. This makes you...special. :)


your boy ben didn't go hard in crunch time. it didn't hurt his case for playing time. you know why??? because it doesn't ....blah blah blah blah blah ....is no case to build because the verdict is already in.

If Darko was playing with us for free, you'd have a point. Amazing how you can defend someone getting paid a boat load of money and deciding to play half azz for the small amount of time he is on the court. I don't care if your feelings are hurt. Do your job! Look hungry and excited to play like most other rookie or second year players have done in the past. Some good players never get a fair shake and make considerably less. You are a new friggin' Millionaire. Jeesh! I've admitted that the Pistons organization did not help his situation..but read my lips...DARKO DIDN'T EITHER.

Say it with me.... DARKO DIDN'T EITHER!

...consequently, you give Ben (the former face of the franchise) absolutely NO latitude.

Please dunk on Darko J-Max, I beg of you!!!! :)

If Darko was playing with us for free, you'd have a point. Amazing how you can defend someone getting paid a boat load of money and deciding to play half azz for the small amount of time he is on the court. I don't care if your feelings are hurt. Do your job! Look hungry and excited to play like most other rookie or second year players have done in the past. Some good players never get a fair shake and make considerably less. You are a new friggin' Millionaire. Jeesh! I've admitted that the Pistons organization did not help his situation..but read my lips...DARKO DIDN'T EITHER.
Have to disagree with you on this. Darko and his agent seemed to have been very clear that they weren't happy with garbage time and wanted him to get real time situations. In the small amount of real game time, he did make mistakes (expected from a 20 year old), and after only one bad game, became a season DNP.

Darko then proceeded to help his situation immensely by demanding a trade, and getting it. The only ones hurt by their lack of effort is the Pistons originization, for showing zero effort in trying to work with a young prospect. And it is obviously couldn't have been that difficult, because it only took Orlando a few months to get results out of Darko.

Have to disagree with you on this. Darko and his agent seemed to have been very clear that they weren't happy with garbage time and wanted him to get real time situations. In the small amount of real game time, he did make mistakes (expected from a 20 year old), and after only one bad game, became a season DNP.

Darko then proceeded to help his situation immensely by demanding a trade, and getting it. The only ones hurt by their lack of effort is the Pistons originization, for showing zero effort in trying to work with a young prospect. And it is obviously couldn't have been that difficult, because it only took Orlando a few months to get results out of Darko.

Fair enough 16mile. Year 1 and Year 2 is where most of this commentary is originating from. Year 3 was a complete mishandling by Pistons Management.

Motown: "I still model my free throw routine after AD. Hey, remember when someone stole his special made shoe. If I remember the story correctly one of his legs was apparently much longer than the other."

Motown, I believe you are wrong about that. I heard that one of his legs was much shorter than the other. :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: !!

Motown: "I still model my free throw routine after AD. Hey, remember when someone stole his special made shoe. If I remember the story correctly one of his legs was apparently much longer than the other."

Motown, I believe you are wrong about that. I heard that one of his legs was much shorter than the other. :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: !!

Uhh...isn't that the same thing lazy? If one leg is much shorter doesn't that make the other leg much longer? Unless of course I am an idiot and completely missing the joke here.

You got the joke Mo. You are simply too serious in this thread. bball jay is eating your brains.

Motown, that's the reason for the line of 'laughing smilies'.

I just thought it was funny because it is so obvious.

And it kind of goes along with the way all of us see Darko. We all see pretty much the same sets of circumstances, yet we all put such a completely different, opposite, diverse meaning to them.

I don't agree with everything 16 and bills say, but I do agree that they are so much closer to the true situation pertaining to the attitude he developed through the constant lack of opportunity leading up to his asking to "get the hell outta town".

And so many others see it as DMC lacking motivation and that lead to his being summarily dismissed.

I remember when people said that Ted Williams did not try as hard as others because he seemed to just lope after balls hit in his vicinity. But when he was timed as to distances travelled in certain amounts of time, he was faster than most. It looked like he was loafing because his stride was so long.

Anyway, I just thought the joke was that the whole thing was obvious.

You got the joke Mo. You are simply too serious in this thread. bball jay is eating your brains.

Thanks bro. I needed that. I wonder if my brain tastes like chicken? :)

Motown, that's the reason for the line of 'laughing smilies'.

I just thought it was funny because it is so obvious.

And it kind of goes along with the way all of us see Darko. We all see pretty much the same sets of circumstances, yet we all put such a completely different, opposite, diverse meaning to them.

I don't agree with everything 16 and bills say, but I do agree that they are so much closer to the true situation pertaining to the attitude he developed through the constant lack of opportunity leading up to his asking to "get the hell outta town".

And so many others see it as DMC lacking motivation and that lead to his being summarily dismissed.

I remember when people said that Ted Williams did not try as hard as others because he seemed to just lope after balls hit in his vicinity. But when he was timed as to distances travelled in certain amounts of time, he was faster than most. It looked like he was loafing because his stride was so long.

Anyway, I just thought the joke was that the whole thing was obvious.

Right on lazy. :)

I had an immigrant roommate who would always say "Stop eating my brains!"

He meant that the radio was too loud. lol

We could really use his 0.5 blocks per game. Or his international play. Good thing to keep in mind if the Magic have any oversees games.

BTW, with 20/20 hindsight,
The guy Detroit should have drafted, besides Darko, was not DWade, Carmello, or Bosh. All of those guys would have been waisted behind our starting 5.

What Detroit should have done was trade down, and gotten Kaman. I don't think he's as good as Darko, but for what Detroit needed and wanted, he would have been a far better match. And Joe D needs to think about out bidding his cheapo team.

Fair enough 16mile. Year 1 and Year 2 is where most of this commentary is originating from. Year 3 was a complete mishandling by Pistons Management.

year 1 and 2. darko was ready for minutes too. he didn't just simply acquire incredible shot blocking skills in year 3. he didn't just buy a sweet jumper. he didn't just grow to 7'. he didn't just learn how to pass. the guy had the tools from day 1. he was mishandled from the start not just in year 3.

you don't develop a # 2 pick with garbage time only. all darko wanted was 7 minutes. even the true face of the franchise cb said that playing darko wouldn't have cost us any games. just like this year playing jmax won't cost us any games.

year 1 and 2. darko was ready for minutes too. he didn't just simply acquire incredible shot blocking skills in year 3. he didn't just buy a sweet jumper. he didn't just grow to 7'. he didn't just learn how to pass. the guy had the tools from day 1. he was mishandled from the start not just in year 3.

you don't develop a # 2 pick with garbage time only. all darko wanted was 7 minutes. even the true face of the franchise cb said that playing darko wouldn't have cost us any games. just like this year playing jmax won't cost us any games.

You missed the point. The point was that his attitude sucked the first two years and he didn't do much to improve his situation. It wasn't until year 3 that we saw real dedication or signs of maturity from this guy.

Noooooooo!!!! Motown don't go back there again!!! Its over with. Let's try to keep this about what Darko is doing now.

I vote to change the forum name to Darkoforum.com and then just have a Pistons thread somewhere in the Green Room.

I vote to change the forum name to Darkoforum.com and then just have a Pistons thread somewhere in the Green Room.
:pound:
I see the channel names:
"Darko general discussion"
"Darko's smoking habits"
"Darko on international level"
"Darko with the Magic"
"Darko with the Pistons"
"Darko in his early days"
"Darko off- court"
"Darko Draft 2003"

Noooooooo!!!! Motown don't go back there again!!! Its over with. Let's try to keep this about what Darko is doing now.

Alright..alright..alright...

lol. Bballjay sucks me in everytime. I'm such a pawn sometimes. :)

whew!! we just averted a disaster to the time space continuum. Thanks boss...I'll go easy on you in trial league...:pound:

You missed the point. The point was that his attitude sucked the first two years and he didn't do much to improve his situation. It wasn't until year 3 that we saw real dedication or signs of maturity from this guy.

you missed the obvious the guy was 17 years old. why would you expect dedication and maturity? if he had been treated like a young prospect and given motivation a teen can understand then he'd be our starting center right now. coming off 3 straight championships.

instead we treated him like a step child that had to earn every bit of love from his parents. sometimes that works and other times the kid just runs away. he's found a good positive enviroment in orlando now. they are pushing him and rewarding him and not settling for anything less than great things from darko. the exact way we should have been using him.

instead we chose to teach him a "lesson".

you missed the obvious the guy was 17 years old. why would you expect dedication and maturity? if he had been treated like a young prospect and given motivation a teen can understand then he'd be our starting center right now. coming off 3 straight championships.

instead we treated him like a step child that had to earn every bit of love from his parents. sometimes that works and other times the kid just runs away. he's found a good positive enviroment in orlando now. they are pushing him and rewarding him and not settling for anything less than great things from darko. the exact way we should have been using him.

instead we chose to teach him a "lesson".

:MusicBigGrin: La..la..la..la...

I can't hear you. ;)

you missed the obvious the guy was 17 years old. why would you expect dedication and maturity? if he had been treated like a young prospect and given motivation a teen can understand then he'd be our starting center right now. coming off 3 straight championships.

instead we treated him like a step child that had to earn every bit of love from his parents. sometimes that works and other times the kid just runs away. he's found a good positive enviroment in orlando now. they are pushing him and rewarding him and not settling for anything less than great things from darko. the exact way we should have been using him.

instead we chose to teach him a "lesson".

BBall, I think you are one cool guy. I bet you are or will be a great parent. You seem to have unlimited patience, and believe in encouragement, forgiveness, and reward.

If you ever consider adopting a 36 year year old "kid" who loves the Pistons, let me know!

Sam Smith - Chicago Tribune

Darko Milicic spends most of his time frowning and loping around without much spirit backing up Howard in Orlando. No wonder the Magic didn't offer him an extension. He'll probably return to Europe. …

Tall thought: Shorter Bulls on ChicagoSports.com (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-061105smith,1,5186748.column?page=2&coll=cs-bulls-utility)

Sam Smith? Gee, I bet he didn't just make that up like he usually does.

Smith has negative credibility.

After watching Darko a couple of games in Orlando this year, my gutt feeling is......

Darko is mediocre. He does not suck, but he is a serviceable player. Great complimentery player at best....in my humble opinion. John Salley-esque career if he's lucky. He will never live up to the #2 draft pick status that follows him around.

If he proves me wrong, good for him. I'd be shocked though. I don't think he has what it takes to transend to the next level. Darko without all-star quality players around him is like "Harold Melvin without the Bluenotes, He'll never go platinum" *.

* inspired by Snoop Dogg.

Is this based on the game where his Bulls got smoked by Orlando? In the loss to Atlanta last night, Darko was one of the few Orlando players (Arroyo the other) that played well. 9 points, 6 rebs, 3 blocks off the bench. Played with a ton of energy.

Is this based on the game where his Bulls got smoked by Orlando? In the loss to Atlanta last night, Darko was one of the few Orlando players (Arroyo the other) that played well. 9 points, 6 rebs, 3 blocks off the bench. Played with a ton of energy.

9 points, 6 boards and 3 blocks is GOOD off the bench. Not the best bench performance I've seen this season.... In fact its not even in the top 10. Outlaw from Portland came off the bench to score 18 pts 15 boards 2 steals 1 block 3 assists with one turnover. Earl Boykins is another player who had an awesome game from the bench. Darko is contributing but he's yet to show the spectacular. At this point, I'd expect nothing less.

...Shocker! Word out of Orlando is that Darko Milicic is pouting because the team is starting Tony Battie over him. This kid’s sense of entitlement is off the charts and was one of the reasons Pistons President Joe Dumars (who drafted him with the second overall pick in 2003) rather quickly passed him on. Dumars figured, correctly, that whatever Milicic would become in the league it would never happen in Detroit. The same thing is going to happen in Orlando, I fear. I think the Magic made a good move in not giving him an extension before the season. They asked him to earn it – and that’s a concept young Milicic doesn’t seem to be able to grasp. He is going to have a great career in Italy or someplace.

...Keep this in the back of your mind, too. Dumars took heat first for drafting Milicic and then for dumping before losing Ben Wallace. But, should the Magic stumble and not make the playoffs, the Pistons will get another lottery pick (as long as it’s not top 5). And in this draft – that is like gold.

From Roscoe's post on Mcoskey's article
http://www.pistonsforum.com/detroit-pistons-general-discussion/4995-chris-mccoskey-fire-hoopsworld.html#post57517

This kind of burns me up. The guy has very little rumor coming out of detroit where he works but has an inside scoop on another organization. I hadn't even heard of this before. Fans in other forums are still high on him which is more than I could say for Pistons fans in general. Think what you want about Darko but this is pure Pistons spin machine at work. Next in hoopworld Chris talks about how some friend of a friend who hangs out with Tyrus Thomas is saying that Ben Wallace is a lockerroom cancer and he's icing out Thomas' playing time. :sherlock:

Speaking of strong performances off of the bench... what about Arroyo tying a Magic franchise record by making 9 out of 9 FGs? That is smokin.

Tay, Carlos had another game in the 20s tonight. He has been on fire and no one is complaining about whether he shoots first or passes first. He has been distributing the ball well.

Darko has been slow getting started and I don't know if it is because of his back injury or not. No excuses. He and Battie have been playing about equal so far, but DMC has to clearly outplay Tony before he gets Tony's job. That's as it should be.

And he better get started on it if he is going to get that big contract. Ball is in his court.

I'm sure nobody will mind if I hijack a Darko thread for make benefit glorious player named Arroyo.

In his last 2 games:
FG 18-22
3pFG 3-4
Points- 45
Assists- 7
TO- 2
Reb- 4


And just for the heck of it, how about Etan Thomas?
14 points, 15 rebs (9 offensive), 6 blocks, and a steal.

Plus, he looks like the incredible hulk right now.

Darko=boring

when given decent minutes and responsibility last season...Arroyo did very well. It's great to see that guy flourish. Giving him up for so little is where we got burned.

when given decent minutes and responsibility last season...Arroyo did very well. It's great to see that guy flourish. Giving him up for so little is where we got burned.

Biggest snafu of the season last year. Sad.

Tay, Carlos had another game in the 20s tonight. He has been on fire and no one is complaining about whether he shoots first or passes first. He has been distributing the ball well.

Darko has been slow getting started and I don't know if it is because of his back injury or not. No excuses. He and Battie have been playing about equal so far, but DMC has to clearly outplay Tony before he gets Tony's job. That's as it should be.

And he better get started on it if he is going to get that big contract. Ball is in his court.

I'll make two observation about Darko in the win over Washington. On one play, he was at the basket, denying the shot. The ball gets whipped out to the three line. Darko flew out from under the basket to the three line and made the guy miss his triple try. Amazing quickness.

Etan Thomas routinely shot the ball over Dwight Howard, but dare not atttempt to shoot over Darko. Yes, Darko did poorly on offense in this game, but Washington, a pretty good team, went down, and Darko surely contributed. Oh, and another ex-Piston I like to watch, Grant Hill, had some good moments too.

I hear he inbounds the ball with amazing quickness and precision too.

it's simple to me. darko isn't a bench player. a lot of people are just looking at stats but darko shuts down the paint. i agree with you lee darko covers lots of ground for a 7' guy. darko routinely makes people miss cause he covers so much ground so quickly and he gets cheated out of a lot of blocks. he does in fact inbound precisely and quickly.

he prefers to start and some team in this league will do it without making him jump through hoops to "earn" it. if orlando doesn't get to it soon he will sign with cleveland, miami, lakers, indiana, san antonio, minnesota. he will instantly make them contenders or push them over the top. i'll agree that right now darko doesn't look like that superstar player but he is a pippen type player. match him up with a star and they will both be great.

b. hill hasn't figured this one out yet. darko and howard on the court at the same time is one of the best defensive frontcourts in the league.

it's simple to me. darko isn't a bench player. a lot of people are just looking at stats but darko shuts down the paint. i agree with you lee darko covers lots of ground for a 7' guy. darko routinely makes people miss cause he covers so much ground so quickly and he gets cheated out of a lot of blocks. he does in fact inbound precisely and quickly.

he prefers to start and some team in this league will do it without making him jump through hoops to "earn" it. if orlando doesn't get to it soon he will sign with cleveland, miami, lakers, indiana, san antonio, minnesota. he will instantly make them contenders or push them over the top. i'll agree that right now darko doesn't look like that superstar player but he is a pippen type player. match him up with a star and they will both be great.

b. hill hasn't figured this one out yet. darko and howard on the court at the same time is one of the best defensive frontcourts in the league.

You're crazy.

I really, really hate talking about this guy, but this darn thread just won't die!!!! I'm so sick of hearing about Darko, but I just couldn't resist throwing in my 2 cents.

i agree with you lee darko covers lots of ground for a 7' guy.

I agree as well. I can only speak for myself, but I know that was one of the things that had me the most excited about him. A 7' with agility and quickness. He's very athletic for his size. But I'll take dedication and heart over potential any day.

he prefers to start and some team in this league will do it without making him jump through hoops to "earn" it.

Yeah, he should join the club. Show me a player who doesn't - especially a young player.

if orlando doesn't get to it soon he will sign with cleveland, miami, lakers, indiana, san antonio, minnesota. he will instantly make them contenders or push them over the top.

b. hill hasn't figured this one out yet.

At what point does it become Darko's fault? His 4th team? Maybe the 5th or 6th? Maybe its Darko that don't get it. Maybe its you that don't get it about Darko. Maybe its you that hasn't figured it out.

It looks to me that its clearly a motivational issue with Darko. The Pistons tried to light that fire in him and failed. Now the Magic are trying the same thing, with not starting him and making him play for a long term deal.

I really think Darko would have been much better off had he gone undrafted, or at least not as a lottery pick.

i'll agree that right now darko doesn't look like that superstar player but he is a pippen type player. match him up with a star and they will both be great.

So Darko isn't playing like a superstar, but match him up with a star and he'll play better. Wow, that's really going out on a limb there. That's what superstars do. They make those around them better. Including 7 footers with a sense of entitlement and no desire. The trick is for him to do it on his own.

This takes the cake. First it was Darko needs minutes to grow...he wasn't given a chance to earn it. Then it morphs into Darko needs to start and shouldn't have to earn it. Its not like he has to out play Yao ming to prove he's worth a starting job. This is Tony Battie.
Darko has been getting minutes. If he can't handle coming off the bench for part of the season (his first full season with the team) I'll lump him with the mark blounts and magliores of the NBa.

I agree as well. I can only speak for myself, but I know that was one of the things that had me the most excited about him. A 7' with agility and quickness. He's very athletic for his size. But I'll take dedication and heart over potential any day.

yeah. but what happens when the potential guy puts it all together?? the problem is nobody has ever tried to get the most out of darko. they have tried to stuff him into a mold when darko's game breaks the mold. don nelson would have the guy playing like an all star. darko has dedication or an insane steroid habit. he put on like 20 lbs during the summer. he's worked on his post game and is effective down there exclusively. i think darko is doing great this year seeing that he isn't playing in his comfort zone (face to the basket).


At what point does it become Darko's fault? His 4th team? Maybe the 5th or 6th? Maybe its Darko that don't get it. Maybe its you that don't get it about Darko. Maybe its you that hasn't figured it out.


how many teams did it take finals mvp chauncey to figure it out. darko is barely 21. he should still be in college. people forget that darko has about 13 more years in the league. i think it's worth it to wait for him and help him figure it out.


It looks to me that its clearly a motivational issue with Darko. The Pistons tried to light that fire in him and failed. Now the Magic are trying the same thing, with not starting him and making him play for a long term deal.

I really think Darko would have been much better off had he gone undrafted, or at least not as a lottery pick.

i think the magic will be effective because they are playing him while telling him to earn it. it's difficult for him because he has to outplay battie but battie gets the benefit of playing off of howard. battie gets rebounds and points off of dwight howard. the magic will have a tough time signing him when someone throws him a big contract plus starting and starter minutes.


So Darko isn't playing like a superstar, but match him up with a star and he'll play better. Wow, that's really going out on a limb there. That's what superstars do. They make those around them better. Including 7 footers with a sense of entitlement and no desire. The trick is for him to do it on his own.

he is entitled. he's 7' and a athletic freak. if orlando doesn't want to give it to him he will get it elsewhere. darko knows this. so teams can be stubborn if they want to while he's under contract.

he can be the star if put on the right team. darko will make d.howard better too that's why they should play together. darko will rack up the assists because he is a superior passer to d. howard. they will get lots of weak side blocks together. darko will get more rebounds because of alterations from howard and vice versa. my point isn't only to make darko better but it will make howard better and the orlando magic better.

This takes the cake. First it was Darko needs minutes to grow...he wasn't given a chance to earn it. Then it morphs into Darko needs to start and shouldn't have to earn it. Its not like he has to out play Yao ming to prove he's worth a starting job. This is Tony Battie.
Darko has been getting minutes. If he can't handle coming off the bench for part of the season (his first full season with the team) I'll lump him with the mark blounts and magliores of the NBa.

well i never said darko had to earn it. i always thought he should be getting minutes. tony battie plays off of howard. darko has to play with the second unit and they play off of him. the game is easier for tony cause dwight is out there. the true test of both players is how they play with equal minutes on the court with dwight. darko hasn't complained at all about his minutes or coming off the bench. it's just me and some people in other forums that think he should start.

At first, I thought Darko COULD have an attitude problem. But now, I'm pretty sure he has one. The biggest problem problem of Darko is himself.
He'll have his breakout season, though. I can't see a talented big like him becoming the second outcoming of Derrick Coleman. He'll do fine- maybe not this season, maybe not in the next 2 or 3. But he'll surely do. Some players simply need huge amounts of time or a midlife crisis to pan out.
As I said many times, Joe TOTALLY blew it by trading him way too early. Ben's gone (and that's probably good since he isn't worth all the money the Bulls pay him) and we have a lack of big man. Exactly the void Darko needed. We also have a huge need for a solid backup PG who can provide a spark off the bench. Exactly what Arroyo offered. If Joe hadn't done that trade we'd be in the title run. Not because Darko's that great, but because we'd have a quite nice roster that could lift us to the title if used correctly.
The team is still ok, but since the title in 2004, it got continually worse. I don't get it. Why are Teams like Dallas or San Antonio able to keep their core together or at least fill their voids while our Pistons let players like Okur, James, Milicic, Ben, Arroyo or even Campbell go without getting enough in return to be considered a contender? The roster quality has continually diminished back to mediocrity. This could have become a dynasty or at least a team that collects more than one 'ship.
I can't stand people talking about the title from 2004 as a "one hit wonder" that was only possible because of a Lakers team with a lack of team chemistry and an injured