Detroit At Phoenix - 10:30pm

TV: TNT [micro: Canuck channel] RNBATV, RNBATVHD
Radio: WDFN

Notes: Teams split the seaonal series last year 1-1 with both teams winning at home.

Game Notes: PHX - According to their website Boris Diaw is replacing James Jones in the starting lineup and will be starting at PF with Shawn Marion ( who was starting there ) slidding over to the 3. Jones returns to the bench. Boris Diaw is listed as a 6'8" guard but will be their starting PF tonight.

The 2-2 Suns boast the highest point total in the league at 111 PPG and let in 107.25 for a +3.8 differential. PHX leads the league in APG at 30.8 and is last in the league in offensive rebounding at 15 RPG. They are respectable in Defensive Rebounding ranking 8th in the league.

Suns also boast 2 league leaders after 4 games with Nash dishing 12.5 APG and Shawn Marion as the surprising early league Rebounding King at 13.8 RPG. He has a 0.8 RPG lead over Ben Wallace - who wants to wager that will change tonight?

Also if you have been living in a Cave or just have not been paying attention Stoudemire is injured.

Max's line - DET 104 PHX 94

Pistons 111 PHX 104

Detroit wins on a late 17-4 run.

BoxScore - From nba.com (http://www.nba.com/games/20051110/DETPHX/boxscore.html)

PlayByPlay - From nba.com (http://scores.nba.com/games/20051110/DETPHX/PlayByPlayPrint.html)

PostGameQuotes - Courtesy of Suns WebSite (http://www.nba.com/suns/news/quotes_051110.html)

Anyone Catch who Blaha named players of the game on WDFN?

I am calling Billups player of the game with 27 points on 9-15 shooting with 11 assists. Plus he hit the coffin shot. 3-pointer to tear the heart out of PHX's effort and seal the game.

Dyess Sub of the game with 8 points on 4-9 shooting with 7 boards.

Good to see the 2 players having good shooing games.

Notable mentions. Ben Wallace 15 points (6-10) , 16 boards and 3 blocks with 2 key free throws made near the end of the game. Rip leading the 4th quarter surge with 18pts ( 14 in the 2nd half -12 in the 4th? ) , Sheed finally getting off to a decent game 15 points (6-10), 7 boards and staying in and out of foul trouble. Prince with the usual solid play. Mr consistant with 18 pts 5 assists and 3 boards.

I just don't see them beating us in this game if we try our hardest, they're a lot worse on offense, the one thing you don't want especially when you're facing the best defensive team in the keague. also they improved in defense, but they lost a lot more offense than they gained defense.

Looks like the Pistons plan to push em around a bit tonight.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/0511/10/D06-378340.htm

West coast games should start no later than 7PT :yawn:

Comments

very insightful.



:eyebrows::P

my only question is whether to play nash tonight in my fantasy league

If they go small you have to make them pay!! How refreshing

This will be a track meet. I'm AMPED!

I gotta say, Chauncey appears to be reaching perfection as a point guard in terms of maturity. He seems completely at ease and in control of the team.

It seems like he no longer feels the need to prove anything to anybody. He knows that he is thought of as "clutch"... which wouldn't be a bad nickname in the Motor City.

I'll go for...

Pistons 112 - Suns 98!

I'll go for...

Pistons 112 - Suns 98!

Most folks are predicting a track meet tonight. I think we'll definitely score over a hundred points, considering their serious lack of defense, while at the same time we'll limit Phoenix to a modest 88-90 points, like we did to Sacramento.

Detroit 110 - Phoenix 90

We do not seem to have the same defense as we did the last two years, but it is close. But the big forward step we have taken on offense is becoming dependable, so we win tonight, like 105 - 88.

Pistons 102 Suns 99:ohwell:

What Sun's coach Mike D'Antoni thinks about Detroit, and how they're game planning for tonight's game.

The East Valley Tribune -

Pistons are disaster for foes (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=52817)
(http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=52817)By Jerry Brown

A warning to the Suns’ game events crew: Step lightly when it comes to jabbing the Detroit Pistons tonight — they are enough of a handful as it is.

Hopefully not. I think we need to force them into a halfcourt game offensively, where they aren't nearly as effective. I'd like to see us push it some, but hopefully we can control the glass so as not to let them out on the break.

Look for a big game from CB. Nash is phenomenal offensively but he's a lousy defender.

I too think the Pistons are going to slow down a bit. I say Pistons 98 - Phoenix 90.

the team aspecially the starters know they shouldn't have a fast paced game with phoenix especially on the road. Yes i believe they'll run for easy baskets off misses but mainly today i think they'll do half-court sets so that it doesn't turn into a very fast paced game. We'll still score pretty good though, pistons win 96-89.

Oh I just read this article, and i definently don't think this will be a fast paced game now, before i thought the pistons wouldn't try to have a fast paced game but i wasn't sure now i'm almost 100% sure this won't be a fast-paced game or at least the pistons won't want that, and will try to prevent it. the article is on here it's on this site its called "pistons are weary of suns".

Oh also I read an article on suns.com it said they were going to change there starting lineup because the've lost there first 2 home games, and they want to see if a bigger line up will work so marion can gaurd tay, and not sheed also because james jones is struggling and they want to see if Barbosa and Boris-diaw can do better. Diaw is starting according to the article.

I think this game will be another double digit win for the Pistons. The Suns are changing their lineups around which in fact may backfire. Detroit 110 - 87.

very insightful.



:eyebrows::P

Thats Reserved for Post-game information.

The Pistons will eat these guys alive.

The Questions:
1. Will Darko see much if any PT against these midgets.
2. Will Arroyo score in double digits.
3. Will Sheed go for 50.

The Answer: Pistons 98 Suns 80

During the halftime show of Game #1 Barkley proclaimed the Pistons as the best team in the East. Said they are loaded with talent and are inspired to prove that they can win without Brown.

Magic said something I thought I would never hear. Pistons are a fun team to watch.

Pistons so far have more fast-break points than the Suns. Not an excuse to try and out-run them as I think the Pistons are smarter than that but look for fast-break's off of opportunities like missed 3's and TO's. Above all the Pistons will get a heck of a lot more shot attempts from offensive rebounds as long as we take care of the ball. I think the only way PHX can win is if the Pistons turn it over too many times. Or if the Suns have one of those "Can't miss" shooting games.

all I know is that if they don't switch this TNT game to the Pistons pretty soon I am going to pop a vein over here. I could care less about a Shaqless/McGradyless game between the Heat and Rockets.

pa -tience, my pet!!! All in due time.....the kettle is boiling!!! Moohahahahha!Mooohahahahha!!!>>>>>>>>>>ahhhhahhahhahahahhahhahahhahhahahhahhha!!My bruddah...109-92!

>>.....I just got off work. CableTv repair is a beeyothch!! I love having wdfn WITH Blaha on the side. Its like I'm cheating on my woman but I got a 30 second delay to make it up!:laugh: Marv Albert dresses up in woman's clothes. I'll never forget that!...Stay awake, my EST pretties...I mean, my Bruddahs!

pa -tience, my pet!!! All in due time.....the kettle is boiling!!! Moohahahahha!Mooohahahahha!!!>>>>>>>>>>ahhhhahhahhahahahhahhahahhahhahahhahhha!!My bruddah...109-92!

okay I'm cool. delayed tipoff = good times! :)

and we just score 12 in a row...moooohahahaha, mooha..(sorry)

Billoups can go for 40 tonight, cuz Nash cant touch him.....I dont know why teams dont exploit him more, cuz Tony parker %%%%%ed nash last year...Board play looks good...We got this if we own the boards...my bruddahs..................when is Cheryl coming out tha closet?

40 for Big Shot...jut be patient

..................when is Cheryl coming out tha closet?

wow. lol! :laugh:

....I'm off tomorrow and the Coconut rum is kicking in!!!:eyebrows: Good qtr, though. We gave up more offensive rebounds than I wanted and too manty "open" shots for 3's! Go for the throat, My bruddah....would u still do MsMiller?:eek: and I dont mean Reggie....

uhh..can't say I ever would have. lol. But, I do respect her game. Lady, can ball.

So far, I'm not impressed with how Arroyo is leading the team out there in C-Note's absence. Dice appears to be settling for that jump shot a little to much. Some stronger finishes to the basket would be nice. Pistons appear to be running alot of isolation plays. Delfino and Arroyo on defense = swiss cheese.

Oh, you're killing me. I love Malibu and pineapple. :nod:

I'm concerned about this bench of ours. Very stagnant offense AND defense when they came in. Arroyo looks like he's running in quicksand out there.

Dice is heating up. Looks like they are double teaming in the post now. Dribble penetration is a problem for us on defense. Lots of uncontested threes by Phoenix. Pistons need to tighten' up the D. Billups might get 30 points this game. Both teams are shooting a high FG%.

Los Point looks like he has that case of the butt look in his eyes again... Los Delf needs more minutes!!!!!He's a stronger Ginobli!!my bruddah..

Phoenix is killin' this weak zone we are playing. Delfino is finally getting some meaningful minutes this game albeit short. Delfino, getting time at the 3 spot is making some shots but looks suspect on defense ...unsuprisingly. Overall , Delfino looks good. Our interior defense looks horrible tonight. I look to see them go back to Chauncey offensively in the second half. Tie game going into the halftime but a little bit of Defense should have had the Pistons walking into the lockeroom with the lead.

I look for him to ratchet it up in the second half. If this interior defense continues to suck, I'd bring in the young Serb. It can't get much worse in the paint defensively for the Pistons.

What a huge first half. Some other fellas need to step up. Nice to see Delfino contributing. Delf played some good D on Nash for a set. Unfortunately, nobody checked Marion and he dunked the Nash miss. :doh:

I gotta give Suns credit....staying tight on boards ...we must clamp on the Bells, Diaws and Jones'. We'll seee how they shoot when the noose tightens.....my bruddahs!

If i had a signature it would be....
"I gotta have more cowbell!"..............Christopher Walken on SNL, Dont Fear the Reaper

... but I haven't been impressed for the most part.

I don't like the zone. It looks unprofessional.

I haven't been impressed with Evans in this game. I like his hustle, but he just hasn't looked comfortable. Neither has Arroyo. His defence is horrible and he is really looking slow out there. I know others have said it, but I really noticed it in this game.

Finally Dice started hitting some shots. We need him to get going.

The Pistons, Ben in particular, have been crying to the refs to much. I hate it when they do that and we usually lose games when they do.

Delfino has looked good. I haven't minded his D in this game. He's been getting a hand in his man's face and has been hustling for rebounds and loose balls. It looks like he is getting more and more comfortable every day.

Lets see what the 2nd half brings...

Oh yeah, and we're giving up WAY too many open 3's.

first play called for Ben. why?

Billups is not reading the double/triple team and dishing out. Come on Chauncey.

More weak interior D.

Pistons down by 7.

Go to Delfino........my bruddah

2 man up! This team has us playing soft. Tay and Sheed them to death in the 4th...and some1 tell Chauncey to slow da heck down!!

we gon be good this year...yall should hear blaha!!:laugh: lol

Blaha " SCHOOL MAY BE OUT NOW!"

YESSSS!!!

I love this team!

I'm just watching the stats. I can't "see" the game ,but all I can say is

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO:rapture::rockon::flame: Pistons!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5-0

:thumb: woot!

That Pistons win must have killed him.

did the pistons shoot better from behind the 3-line than in front of it? The box score has a 58%.

1st half

Again, the Pistons let the other team get off to a hot start. Again, the Pistons cooly withstood the initial onslaught and wound up ahead by 5 after 1 quarter of play. CB is the hot guy tonight, and he has about 18 points so far without checking. He is drawing fouls going inside and hitting from the outside.

Tay has hit a couple of jumpers. Little from Rip. Sheed a bit of offense inside and one made outside jumper. Ben hit his first free throw but missed both later, the first real badly.

Arroyo played about 7 minutes, did not do much, and he was about minus 5. But I would not blame that on Arroyo. Evans was having a bad night. Sure, you think I am picking on him. But he had a bad night. Missed his shots, could not handle the ball, and did not do much good on defense. He was in there battling for the ball but did not give us much for all that. I'll take the energy at least.

Defino got into this game for quite a bit in the first half as compared to earlier games. He hit a couple of shots and seemed to have a pretty good nose for the ball in rebounding. On his defense, I did not see anything to report. Maybe when I review the game this weekend.

The national announcers are being fair in the coverage of both teams, but then again, Collins is pretty good for that toward us.

Dyess has made some shots outside and scored inside strong once too. Marion can't check him. Good to see Dyess have a good 1st half scoring.

No Darko. Nine man rotation. Delfino mostly was subbing for Tay after Evans subbed for Rip.

We got 52 points for the half, but gave up 52 also. Bad defense by us? Nope. This team is hitting their shots with 5 made 3's and lots of other outside shots made. If they cold on their outside shooting, they will be in deep trouble. GO PISTONS!!!!!

game report

Gee guys, no good comments about Arroyo. Funny, but he took us from down 10 to nearly tying it up in the 4th quarter. Good solid play once again by Arroyo going mostly unrecognized on this board. Mostly. Still lots of Arroyo fans. Speak up. Don't let these negative posters shut you down.

This game had three eras. The CB era, the first half, where the Piston road his hot hand. That killer triple to seal it must of course be mentioned too. The 2nd era saw Prince heat it up in the 3rd quarter when we really needed the O. Then the 3rd era. Rip. In the 4th quarter. Anyone remember Rip's first year with us? He would score plenty but be nowhere to be found late in the game. What a difference a couple of years make. Mr. Clutch tonight.

Ben tried a bit too much here and there on offense, but man did he have a game on the boards and on putbacks. Sheed hit some key triples. Dyess did nothing more in the 2nd half. Only Evans joined Arroyo and Dyess from the bench in the 2nd half. Evans hit a shot when they left him wide open on a defensive gaff. (or maybe someone tripped?) Other than that, he simply stayed out of the offense and played D.

Phoenix never cooled at all on outside shooting, but at least their triples quit falling. In the end, they had no inside game to go to though. But really, we won this one on our own hot shooting to a great extent. Yes, it did help though all the times Arroyo attacked the basket and got out O going toward the hoop.

111 points. Gee, out 102 average just went up. This team is scoring. Two great things tonight. CB's first breakout scoring game this year. And, for the 3rd game in a row, Prince took over the offense for a good stretch. Three games in a row is certainly getting to be a trend. And Rip, well, just steady. Its amazing how little love this guy on a poll about who the most talented Piston is. The guy is flat out good.

It might have been bad coaching that won this one for us. Taking Barbosa out for Grant. Got me scratching my head but I won't complain. Another mighty Piston victory. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Holy crap, what a win. Rip really woke up there in the 4th. Chauncey is the man.

And that dunk by Ben was the best of the season so far! Sheed shooting the 3. I'm pumped.

1) 37-22 in the 4th...Now that's an Oldskool-Zeke and Joe spanking!!
2) We imposed our will...Like Rodman, Mahorn, Bill and Buddah!
3) If u aint up by 20 , it aint over!
4) I love dat white boy in the valley. Thank God Steve aint on The Pacers!!
5) We got TNT love...I cant believe it. Brak may be stupid, But he speaks the truth! He loves dem Pistons!
6) I goota find the game 2morrow
7) whattuop with George goin solo on the coast?
8) Sheed is great-Ben is better!!Who can stop those 2?
9) TayTay is HayHay!! Owned the third qtr!
10) the best backcourt the last four years needs to start the allstar game. Get the ballots ready NOW!!!!!
....my bruddahs!WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

I was jumping up and down for ten minutes. I know it is early but please realize that we are winning without going to our lock down defense much. We are just jogging along with teams, matching scores and then going for the knock-out. Amazing. This team may already be at another level than last year. If our guys had been allowed to play their game offensively last year, I have little doubt that this would be a 3-peat year. This is just fun.

Thats Reserved for Post-game information.

i know....i'm just playin' :laugh:

what an amazing game :nod:

It was great to see the poise they played with in the final 5:00 minutes.
I thought Phoenix played about as well as the possible could without a true inside presence... their shooting up until the end was excellent.
I was also impressed with their help defense on our bigs... I won't blame Sheed for not forcing it inside on a double team.
The Pistons made the extra pass and made them pay.

I was hoping the Pistons would have drafted Barbosa over Delfino... he just keeps getting better.

Could this be the year we have 3 all-stars?

Haven't checked the box score yet but it looked like Tayshaun won the battle over Marion tonight... a 6' 9" guy hith range and PG type handles... he's sic with talent.... what would Tay's price tag have been if Joe waited for him to be an RFA?

Ok, let's wrap up this West coast sweep (gotta like how that sounds) and then take care of the C's... We might face Dallas without Dirk and the Rockets without T-Mac.

I'm still cautious about the quality of opponent so far (Phoenix losing all three at home)... I won't proclaim greatness until we beat Dallas at their house.... Still what a sweet comeback tonight... I thought the bench was used just right... I'm not sure this was the right matchup for Darko... maybe the kind of game where he gets in foul trouble....
He should play plenty against Portland though... we might be able to use his height against 7' 1" Przybilla.

Oh yeah... luved Rip's comment after the game "tell Doug Eminem Collins to change his hair" LOL

I was starting to get a little worried about the weakside help and interior defense, but when the stones needed the lockdown, it was still there. Also, the zone didn't work out, but I sorta liked it for a change of pace, especially against a team that was working the Pick n Roll. The reason it led to 3 straight scores is a good job by nash and hitting the jumpers, but also Ben would go inside on a drive instead of letting the low zone guys pick up the penetration. He basically went to man and left the outside open. But with some practice, it will be a good change of pace -- not a system. Plus, you have to love the intimidation factor of putting the DPOY out there front and center against the opposing teams point. Like a pitbull!!

total team effort. tayshaun is downright scary ... he exploits his mismatches and plays aggressive and hits the shots to boot. if he keeps this up...

since it's late and i'm tired i won't add much more to this other than...the monster putback by ben wallace clinched the game for us. when he made the whole suns crowd audibly gasp, the suns were effectively done, cooked, finished.

no Darko tonight? Especially against a small team like Phoenix, I'd expected Saunders to go big with Darko, JMax or even Davis. To run the plays for the big guys.
Seems as he tried to stick to fastbreaks- aaaaaaight

Gee guys, no good comments about Arroyo. Funny, but he took us from down 10 to nearly tying it up in the 4th quarter. Good solid play once again by Arroyo going mostly unrecognized on this board. Mostly. Still lots of Arroyo fans. Speak up. Don't let these negative posters shut you down.

I'm sorry we must have seen another game. Please explain how he did this? He only hit one wide open outside shot. That was pretty much it for his contribution. I consider myself a pretty objective guy. I give credit where credit is due. Arroyo had a bad game last night. He was a liability on defense BIG time. 1 for 6 from the field. Blown layup after blown layup. His lack of speed on defense was exposed last night. The only thing I can say is that he didn't turn over the ball so he didn't give the game away...at least based on ball-handling. He did not do a good job of setting up for scores either. The Pistons shot 54% last night and he was not responsible for one assist. I haven't soured on Arroyo for the entire season, but this was definitely not a case of him bringing the Pistons back from a deficit. Arroyo was in the game during a run, but his contribution was minimal at best.

The story of this game was the Piston's bigs switching off their man on defense in the 4th quarter instead of having the guards fight screens unsuccessfully all night. Oh, and I think Evans contributed more than you are giving him credit for. The Pistons were outrebounded most of the game until they rallied in the 4th...the only person who seemed to be successfully getting long rebounds off missed threes was Evans. He finished with 5 boards..but they were all extremely important boards against a fiesty Phoenix defense at the time. Although, he had some defensive lapses against Barbosa (Barbosa appeared to be two steps quicker than Evans), he was still the difference between this game getting out of control for us on many occasions. Hustle boards were imperative during many stretches of this game. So YOU can chill on the "negatives" buddy. :)

total team effort. tayshaun is downright scary ... he exploits his mismatches and plays aggressive and hits the shots to boot. if he keeps this up...

I agree. Tay stepped into the big-time spotlight last night in the second half. He was VERY confident out there. He looked like a big, skinny man among boys. He was Herculean. He was a giant among Lilliputians.

What a game by the stones. As I said befre the season began, Flip will be the next Phil Jackson & the Bulls. Phil has the TRIANGLE Offense, Flip has the FLEX Offense. I wouldn't be surprised if we went on a NBA Championship frenzy over the next five years if we can keep all of our core guys intact. Flip is indeed an offensive genious who previously lacked the personnel to really fully appreciate his offensive sets and mastery. Great game, even though it wasn't a blowout, you could really see the Pistons Swagger at the end of the game.

That was beautiful last night. That is exactly the way you play. What's the point of going whole-hog on D for the entire game and wearing yourself out? The difference between us and them (Phoenix and the rest of the league), is we can clamp down for 5 minutes at the end, and they can't. Only the Spurs can do this as well as us. You just have to put the effort in on the offensive side to keep things close, then play rediculous D down the stretch (and it'll be even better D if you haven't been doing it the whole game). Spend the first 3Q figuring out what they're doing on offense, then turn the D it on. They won't be able to make quick adjustments needed to score. This is really the way to do it! Players are happy, fans are happy, and wins are coming without wearing our players down. Only criticism, is that our bench should have logged some serious minutes in 2Q and 3Q last night. As long as they could keep it within 10, they should have been out there.

I've made this same point a couple times before, but haven't managed to get any response. Do y'all agree??

I'm sorry we must have seen another game. Please explain how he did this? ...So YOU can chill on the "negatives" buddy. :)

:nod: Mo, you silly! :pound:

You guys gotta remember that lee is posting his recap from the D-News board. Some of the comments may not be relevant to this board.

What a game by the stones. As I said befre the season began, Flip will be the next Phil Jackson & the Bulls. Phil has the TRIANGLE Offense, Flip has the FLEX Offense. I wouldn't be surprised if we went on a NBA Championship frenzy over the next five years if we can keep all of our core guys intact. Flip is indeed an offensive genious who previously lacked the personnel to really fully appreciate his offensive sets and mastery. Great game, even though it wasn't a blowout, you could really see the Pistons Swagger at the end of the game.

I agree. We definitely have an offensive genius on our hands. Flip's timeouts were masterful. It seems like they always lead to an uncontested bucket. A major difference between this year's team and last year's team is that if we didn't obliterate you on defense chances are we would not win the game. (Suffice to say, if we were this ineffective in the paint and with dribble penetration with last year's team, we would have been down by double digits going into the 3rd quarter)This year we are so efficient offensively that teams are forced to figure out a way to stop us. Shots just come so easy in Flip's offense and this game it was without even taking advantage of fast break opportunities.

One of things that I noticed in the second half that contributed to the Stone's deficit is that the Suns began to clog up the lanes and double team in the post offseting some of the our size advantage. It was also a way to hide Nash's deficiencies on defense against Chauncey. It worked throughout the 3rd quarter but Flip's flexible offense only stumbled momentarily as we began to effecitvely take advantage of three point opportunites. Detroit has the perfect balance of inside and outside shooting making us darn near impossible to defend. Coodles to Coach Saunders for making both the adjustments on offense and defense to turn this game around.

I think based on how the Pistons have played the first set of games this season, it is becoming painfully obvious that there is not a starting 5 in the game right now that compares to us.

Oh, and welcome back Dice. We've missed you. :)

The Good:

1. Down the stretch, there still isn't a better team in this league. Tremendous offensive execution and lockdown D.

2. Chauncey really got it going tonite. 27 pts, 11 assists. Really impressive. And he is in total control of the game out there-our undisputed leader. In 5 games, he has 46 assists and 8 TOs.

3. Tay doesn't look anything like the player we've seen the last couple of years. He is really agressive on offense and looking for his shot. We would've been down by 15 entering the fourth if he hadn't given us what he did in the third.

4. Dyess finally started to get untracked.

5. Delfino looked good-a couple of nice long jumpers. Would like to see him get a bit more run.

6. Ben looks a lot better at the line. If he could shoot 60% for the entire season that would be a huge accomplishment.

7. Offensively, we are 100% better than last year. That's four times we've hit the century mark in five games, and our shooting percentage for the year is close to 50%.

The Bad:

1. For most of the game I thought our "D" was pretty porous, although I won't draw any conclusions from that because Phoenix is a rather unique squad with that small lineup, quickness, and outside shooting ability.

2. Evans was unimpressive. He didn't look like he was in the flow of the offense and I remember at least two occasions where his guy simply took him right off the dribble and blew by him.

3. The offense stagnated when Arroyo was in the game. Hopefully he'll play better against Portland, because he is very capable of making good things happen.

This team is reminding me a lot more of our Bad Boys clubs than the teams we've seen the last few years under Carlisle and Brown. The RC and LB teams tended to play "fourth-quarter" defense the entire game but were more restricted offensively. This team, like the teams of the late 80's, doesn't seem to play defense as well for 48 minutes but do so when it counts, while displaying a lot more offensive weapons.

Overall, I thought this was a terrific win. I agree with what I think it was Collins said regarding the fact that Phoenix really has nowhere to go for a big basket at the end. I think that's helping cause the fourth-quarter collapses they're experiencing.

You guys gotta remember that lee is posting his recap from the D-News board. Some of the comments may not be relevant to this board.

I hear you my man, but if he is going to "re-post" them here he needs to take responsibility for them. IMO the burden is on the Leemeister...he can always take an extra couple of minutes to edit them before reposting to avoid any "misunderstandings".

Besides, it WAS funny!!!:P

Overall, I thought this was a terrific win. I agree with what I think it was Collins said regarding the fact that Phoenix really has nowhere to go for a big basket at the end. I think that's helping cause the fourth-quarter collapses they're experiencing.

No Stoudamire is really hurting them. Marion has kind of a weird inside/outside thing going a la Sheed, but he doesn't command that much respect in the paint. Active rebounder though.

That was beautiful last night. That is exactly the way you play. What's the point of going whole-hog on D for the entire game and wearing yourself out? The difference between us and them (Phoenix and the rest of the league), is we can clamp down for 5 minutes at the end, and they can't. Only the Spurs can do this as well as us. You just have to put the effort in on the offensive side to keep things close, then play rediculous D down the stretch (and it'll be even better D if you haven't been doing it the whole game). Spend the first 3Q figuring out what they're doing on offense, then turn the D it on. They won't be able to make quick adjustments needed to score. This is really the way to do it! Players are happy, fans are happy, and wins are coming without wearing our players down. Only criticism, is that our bench should have logged some serious minutes in 2Q and 3Q last night. As long as they could keep it within 10, they should have been out there.

I've made this same point a couple times before, but haven't managed to get any response. Do y'all agree??

I totally agree with this. you want to see good d the whole game but the pistons should be able to really take their defense up to 11 at key moments.

By the way, Ben had a NASSSSSTTTTY put back dunk last night!

I hear you my man, but if he is going to "re-post" them here he needs to take responsibility for them. IMO the burden is on the Leemeister...he can always take an extra couple of minutes to edit them before reposting to avoid any "misunderstandings".

Besides, it WAS funny!!!:P

I enjoy reading Lee's posts. I like the detail and the insight. You'll never get that kind of recap off of Fox Sports. It also draws counter opinions.

What a game by the stones. As I said befre the season began, Flip will be the next Phil Jackson & the Bulls. Phil has the TRIANGLE Offense, Flip has the FLEX Offense. I wouldn't be surprised if we went on a NBA Championship frenzy over the next five years if we can keep all of our core guys intact. Flip is indeed an offensive genious who previously lacked the personnel to really fully appreciate his offensive sets and mastery. Great game, even though it wasn't a blowout, you could really see the Pistons Swagger at the end of the game.

Flipper is not a Zen guy
Flipper does not date the owner's daughter
Flipper does not work in a high profile city

There is only one Zen man among the coaches in the NBA.

Flex offense is not the triangle offense. It is entirely different. Flipper will be Flipper and not the next Zen Meister.

Flipper is not a Zen guy
Flipper does not date the owner's daughter
Flipper does not work in a high profile city

There is only one Zen man among the coaches in the NBA.

Flex offense is not the triangle offense. It is entirely different. Flipper will be Flipper and not the next Zen Meister.

Hey Buddah,

I don't think she was trying to say that Flip is Phil reincarnated, just that they both teach great offensive systems effectively that when coupled with the right personnel have potential to lead to many championships.

I enjoy reading Lee's posts. I like the detail and the insight. You'll never get that kind of recap off of Fox Sports. It also draws counter opinions.

Lee does provide some good insights into the game... it's our job to weed through the biased comments.
For example.... The Euro's and Arroyo rarely ever do anything wrong.
Darko's every move is god like (you should see him in practice).
We have a new whipping boy this year (Evans) until Hunter comes back... Hunter basically always sucks to the worst degree.
Ben should never ever shoot the ball from outside.... you get the jist :)

Where's Lee's true value as a game analyst come in is with the individual play commentarys... he got a good mind for how players talents should be utilized.

Flipper is not a Zen guy
Flipper does not date the owner's daughter
Flipper does not work in a high profile city

There is only one Zen man among the coaches in the NBA.

Flex offense is not the triangle offense. It is entirely different. Flipper will be Flipper and not the next Zen Meister.

I wasn't comparing the Triangle Offense to the Flex Offense, just saying they both have their indvidual offensive scheme that they brought to the table. Definitely not comparing the so-called Zen to Flip. Personally, I never liked the guy, Tex Winter was the mastermind behind the triangle. If Jackson wins with the motley crew that he has in LA right now, I may give him some love. The comparison is Phil's ability to win 5? championships with the Bulls after inheriting an almost ready made team and one of the greatest players who ever played the game.

I have to admit, the Pistons showed something last night. They can really turn it on when they want to. But I am wondering if that lock down defense is a thing of the past. Even when we outscored them so well in the fourth, they still got a lot of points. We outscored them, not held them down.

I was sure that Delfino had two threes but neither one of them was a three. That is really a surprise because the announcers and I all saw threes.

They really had their way in driving to the basket at will. Seemed to me that that was Darko's talent, shutting the lane down, and he should have come in ahead of Evans. If they did not use him then, I don't know when they will. If he is to be used with the rookies, I hope they start playing Dale. Same as last year, our three bigs played the whole game with Ben in there 44 minutes. And same as last year, we strolled out to try to bother the three-point shooters with our arms down. Lucky they stopped hitting them with such regularity.

But as usual, our guards came through to bail us out in the clutch.

Lazy, I believe the Suns were averaging 111 PPG.
but I share your concerns about the open path to the basket lately...
That Nash is one crafty SOB.

I hope there's no let down against a rested Blazer team tonight.

I have to admit, the Pistons showed something last night. They can really turn it on when they want to. But I am wondering if that lock down defense is a thing of the past. Even when we outscored them so well in the fourth, they still got a lot of points. We outscored them, not held them down.


I disagree about the lock-down D part of your post (agree with the rest). Pistons showed some of their best lock down D last night in the last 1/2 of the 4Q. In the quarter overall, they outscored Phoenix 37-22, and had a 20-6 run in the last 6 minutes. It doesn't get any better than that. (22 points a quarter is 88 points a game, pretty good against the Suns).

I guess that some people would like to see us play that way the whole game ("the right way"), but I think that if we had tried, they'd have worn us out, and put a hurting on us in the last few minutes. (If I remember last year's game at Phoenix, I believe that we had a 10-pt lead in the 4Q and lost-could be wrong).

I'd like to do a statistical analysis of points given up in the 4Q (maybe only in games that were close after 3Q) last year when we played D on every posession, versus this year, where we've toned it down and focused on O for the first three quarters. Bet we have better D down the stretch this year.

Hey Buddah,

I don't think she was trying to say that Flip is Phil reincarnated, just that they both teach great offensive systems effectively that when coupled with the right personnel have potential to lead to many championships.

Right On

I disagree about the lock-down D part of your post (agree with the rest). Pistons showed some of their best lock down D last night in the last 1/2 of the 4Q. In the quarter overall, they outscored Phoenix 37-22, and had a 20-6 run in the last 6 minutes. It doesn't get any better than that. (22 points a quarter is 88 points a game, pretty good against the Suns).

I guess that some people would like to see us play that way the whole game ("the right way"), but I think that if we had tried, they'd have worn us out, and put a hurting on us in the last few minutes. (If I remember last year's game at Phoenix, I believe that we had a 10-pt lead in the 4Q and lost-could be wrong).

I'd like to do a statistical analysis of points given up in the 4Q (maybe only in games that were close after 3Q) last year when we played D on every posession, versus this year, where we've toned it down and focused on O for the first three quarters. Bet we have better D down the stretch this year.

Although this opinion of not playing all out defense for 4 quarters appears to be growing popularity, I couldn't disagree more. I think these are conditioned athletes that should run hard and play agressive defense the entire game. If they are unable to keep up the intensity then they need to be subbed out for someone who can. The Stones' should never intentionally keep the "D" down a notch. If we can grow a lead early we do nothing but insure more minutes from our bench. Although close games are entertaining to watch, I want us to continue to try to knock the other team out in the first round if we have a shot. I'm all for change of pace to disrupt the "O" but intentionally playing moderate defense for the purpose of conserving energy to me is ludacris.

We never can put lock down D on PHX for any extended period of time. I believe most of it is because they play a different kind of style then anyone else in the league. For example on the fast break instead of their wings going torward the basket they float to the three point line. It is easy to work on in a series, but not for one game in the middle of other games. However, I am a little concerned by the lack of blocked shots lately.

One thing I am glad 2 see is Billups dishing out the ball so well. Also, if we are going to continue to roll, Sheed needs to put up 16-20 a game. Instead of those 6-8 point games.

Also in response of the poster who said they were surprised that Darko did not play any, you most consider who we were playing. Its hard to keep a 7 footer on the floor against PHX unless he is very athletic. I am a HUGE Darko fan but this would be a bad game for him to get some burn. However, Portland is perfect.

Although this opinion of not playing all out defense for 4 quarters appears to be growing popularity, I couldn't disagree more. I think these are conditioned athletes that should run hard and play agressive defense the entire game. If they are unable to keep up the intensity then they need to be subbed out for someone who can. The Stones' should never intentionally keep the "D" down a notch. If we can grow a lead early we do nothing but insure more minutes from our bench. Although close games are entertaining to watch, I want us to continue to try to knock the other team out in the first round if we have a shot. I'm all for change of pace to disrupt the "O" but intentionally playing moderate defense for the purpose of conserving energy to me is ludacris.

I do disagree. I think that we've got the most well-conditioned atheletes in the league, but trying to maintain the all-out D paradigm is a good deal of the reason that we lost last year's title. Guys were just too tired (especially Prince) to finish the season strong. I realize that in theory the bench should have been better developed last year to handle the work-load, but the painful fact is that we just didn't have a lot of really good defensive subs, and if they could play solid D, they brought very little to the O end. Opening it up for three quarters in fact makes it a lot easier to get the Delfino's, Arroyos, etc. into the games (who can hang with other teams on O, and should be able to keep the games close), and keeps the starters fresh to dominate in the fourth. Also, I think that the notion that we can't build big leads without playing smothering D is not correct. 70% of the teams in the league we will kill just based on offensive talent. No need to play 88-80 games against Charlotte and Atlanta. Doesn't serve a purpose.

I think that this All-D all-the-time strategy is also bad for the long-term prospects of the team. In addition to players careers being lengthened by keeping them fresh, more top-quality FAs will want to sign on with Detroit if it is less a grind to play here. It really is a tough thing to find the guys to fit into the system. Some flexibility in the system will only help long-term.

I really fell for this idea watching the Spurs last year. They played some awesome O for most of the game, then were able to crush teams in the final moments, with no apparent downside.

The proof, I think is in the players faces. Instead of the grimmacing cold stares of serial killers they had in years past, they look like they're really having fun. I'm having fun too.

I do disagree. I think that we've got the most well-conditioned atheletes in the league, but trying to maintain the all-out D paradigm is a good deal of the reason that we lost last year's title. Guys were just too tired (especially Prince) to finish the season strong. I realize that in theory the bench should have been better developed last year to handle the work-load, but the painful fact is that we just didn't have a lot of really good defensive subs, and if they could play solid D, they brought very little to the O end. Opening it up for three quarters in fact makes it a lot easier to get the Delfino's, Arroyos, etc. into the games (who can hang with other teams on O, and should be able to keep the games close), and keeps the starters fresh to dominate in the fourth. Also, I think that the notion that we can't build big leads without playing smothering D is not correct. 70% of the teams in the league we will kill just based on offensive talent. No need to play 88-80 games against Charlotte and Atlanta. Doesn't serve a purpose.

I think that this All-D all-the-time strategy is also bad for the long-term prospects of the team. In addition to players careers being lengthened by keeping them fresh, more top-quality FAs will want to sign on with Detroit if it is less a grind to play here. It really is a tough thing to find the guys to fit into the system. Some flexibility in the system will only help long-term.

I really fell for this idea watching the Spurs last year. They played some awesome O for most of the game, then were able to crush teams in the final moments, with no apparent downside.

The proof, I think is in the players faces. Instead of the grimmacing cold stares of serial killers they had in years past, they look like they're really having fun. I'm having fun too.

But the Spurs actually held opponents down to less points than the Pistons did last year.

2004-2005 season

Spurs PF - 96.2 PA - 88.4
Stones PF - 93.3 PA - 89.5

So what is this reserved "D" that you are talking about. :confused: Seems to me that they made the conscious effort to shut down teams for the entire 48 as well. Statistically, they actually did a better job than we did. The difference was that when San Antonio wanted/needed to score it didnt look as painful as it did for the Pistons. The Spurs actually beat the Suns playing fast break basketball....but coupled with their staggering defense.

Besides, when the Pistons won the championship with their bench two years ago they played in all out full court press defense all the way to a championship. The starters were not playing the gluttony of minutes they did in 2004. Now, I see your arguement if the intent this season is to remain with a shortened rotation, but we are not going to be doing that this year. Flip likes to use his bench and our bench happens to have alot of promise. Because of this we have the luxury once more to try to keep up the intensity for the entire game. Ron Harper spoke about the difference between a champion and a dynasty. He said that dynasty teams show intensity all the time. They are relentless. We need to have that same passion and trust in our bench to keep the intensity up when the starters are getting rest.

I have to admit, the Pistons showed something last night. They can really turn it on when they want to. But I am wondering if that lock down defense is a thing of the past. Even when we outscored them so well in the fourth, they still got a lot of points. We outscored them, not held them down.

I was sure that Delfino had two threes but neither one of them was a three. That is really a surprise because the announcers and I all saw threes.

They really had their way in driving to the basket at will. Seemed to me that that was Darko's talent, shutting the lane down, and he should have come in ahead of Evans. If they did not use him then, I don't know when they will. If he is to be used with the rookies, I hope they start playing Dale. Same as last year, our three bigs played the whole game with Ben in there 44 minutes. And same as last year, we strolled out to try to bother the three-point shooters with our arms down. Lucky they stopped hitting them with such regularity.

But as usual, our guards came through to bail us out in the clutch.

The reason the suns scored so much is becuse we didn't take care of the ball, especially in the first 3 quarters and it wasn't because the pistons had bad defense. our defense stepped up when we didn't turn the ball over. I'm almost 100% sure i'm right on this.

I'm sorry we must have seen another game. Please explain how he did this? He only hit one wide open outside shot. That was pretty much it for his contribution. I consider myself a pretty objective guy. I give credit where credit is due. Arroyo had a bad game last night. He was a liability on defense BIG time. 1 for 6 from the field. Blown layup after blown layup. His lack of speed on defense was exposed last night. The only thing I can say is that he didn't turn over the ball so he didn't give the game away...at least based on ball-handling. He did not do a good job of setting up for scores either. The Pistons shot 54% last night and he was not responsible for one assist. I haven't soured on Arroyo for the entire season, but this was definitely not a case of him bringing the Pistons back from a deficit. Arroyo was in the game during a run, but his contribution was minimal at best.

The story of this game was the Piston's bigs switching off their man on defense in the 4th quarter instead of having the guards fight screens unsuccessfully all night. Oh, and I think Evans contributed more than you are giving him credit for. The Pistons were outrebounded most of the game until they rallied in the 4th...the only person who seemed to be successfully getting long rebounds off missed threes was Evans. He finished with 5 boards..but they were all extremely important boards against a fiesty Phoenix defense at the time. Although, he had some defensive lapses against Barbosa (Barbosa appeared to be two steps quicker than Evans), he was still the difference between this game getting out of control for us on many occasions. Hustle boards were imperative during many stretches of this game. So YOU can chill on the "negatives" buddy. :)

A point guard does not have to score a point or get an assist to be doing his job. His job is to control the game. Forget individual plays. Did we turn the ball over a lot? Were we getting good shots? Was the other team getting a lot of fast break points? Did the ball get up the court quickly and did we get into our offensive sets in time for the offense to be effective. The answers were all positive in regards to Arroyo. My negative comments about Evans were from his first half play, not the 2nd half.

I can't catch everything the first time I watch a game,which is why I generally watch each game twice. But while I missed mentioning Evans getting those rebounds, you are forgetting to give credit for Arroyo for being a solid guy bringing the ball up and setting the plays up. Contribution minimal? Who else was going to do his job? Did you expect Billups to play the entire game? Doing a solid job as the point is a big contribution, whether you believe it or not. Just see what happens to teams who don't have a 2nd capable point to come in for their starter. Pretty ugly in many cases. I will leave it up to the next guy to mention as many cases as they wish. Should not take a lot of thought.

But the Spurs actually held opponents down to less points than the Pistons did last year.

2004-2005 season

Spurs PF - 96.2 PA - 88.4
Stones PF - 93.3 PA - 89.5

So what is this reserved "D" that you are talking about. :confused: Seems to me that they made the conscious effort to shut down teams for the entire 48 as well. Statistically, they actually did a better job than we did. The difference was that when San Antonio wanted/needed to score it didnt look as painful as it did for the Pistons. The Spurs actually beat the Suns playing fast break basketball....but coupled with their staggering defense.



During regulation periods of the 3 games the Spurs had with the Suns last year, San Antonio averaged 109 points to the Suns 104 (pretty amazingly close to Detroits 111-104 game last night). The Suns scored an average of 24 points (96 ppg average) per 4th quarter of those games, meaning that they averaged 27 points per quarter the rest of the game (108 ppg average). I don't know if this holds for the rest of the Spurs efforts, but against the Suns, it suggests that they coasted on D until the 4rth quarter, then turned on the D.

Since I post both here and at detnews.com a lot, I can see where someone might think I don't like Evans. Just not true. I point out his shortcomings, but I love his steady shot. His rebounding is ok for his position of small forward, and more than ok if he is subbing for Rip. His defense is not great but yet good and improving as he gains NBA experience. He is really just barely past being a rookie. His ball handling skills have a long way to go, but he should be able eventually to turn his scoring ability into assists as the other team tries to stop him from scoring. He can drive in, or create space for his jumper for which he elevates really well. Sometimes, he does not take his time around the basket. A lot of this is simply inexperience. They let him go in Sacramento for this inexperience, which was just plain unwise on their part and great luck for us.

A point guard does not have to score a point or get an assist to be doing his job. His job is to control the game. Forget individual plays. Did we turn the ball over a lot? Were we getting good shots? Was the other team getting a lot of fast break points? Did the ball get up the court quickly and did we get into our offensive sets in time for the offense to be effective. The answers were all positive in regards to Arroyo. My negative comments about Evans were from his first half play, not the 2nd half.

Arroyo's statline for 14 mins:

Mins - 14 FGM-A 1-6 FTM-A 1-2 PF - 2 PTS - 3

So, you want me to give Arroyo credit for going 14 mins against one of the worst defensive teams in the league and not getting a turnover. If you count all of those bricks he was throwing up that caused a loss of possession I would say that he did have a negative impact.

Rather than addressing all of your questions how bout' we do this.

Red represents negative impacts. Blue represents positive impacts.

Start of the 4th Quarter:

11:44 Carlos missed layup 74-82 Suns (not a good start)
11:42 Ben Wallace Offensive Rebound
11:42 Ben Wallace made two point shot. 76-82 (I guess your calling that an assist?)
11:30 Eddie House missed 20 ft jumper. 76-82
11:10 Carlos Arroyo missed 18 ft jumper. 76-82 (ouch, that's 2 misses)
11:03 Leandro Barbosa made layup. 76-84 (whose man is that, hmm...?)
10:45 Tayshaun Prince made 23 ft jumper. (unassisted) 78-84
10:19 Tayshaun Price missed 12 ft jumper
10:18 Ben Wallace Offensive Rebound
10:18 Ben Wallace made two point shot. 80-84 (guess your calling that Arroyo setting up the play as well)
10:08 Leandro Barbosa's layup blocked by Ben Wallace (way to bail someone out Ben, whose his man again?)

Okay so then Carlos has some good moments...

10:03 Brian Grant Shooting Foul on Carlos Arroyo (at least it doesn't count as another miss)
10:03 Carlos Arroyo missed Free Throw 1 of 2. 80-84 (Dohhhh!!!)
10:03 Carlos Arroyo made Free Throw 2 of 2. 81-84 (Go Carlos, it's ya birthday)
9:52 Boris Diaw made layup. 81-86
9:52 Boris Diaw made free throw 1 of 1. 81-87
9:37 Carlos Arroyo made 19ft jumper. 83-87 (Carlos makes wide open shot, that a boy Los!!!!)

But then things go south again....

9:15 James Jones made 15 ft two point shot. 81-87. (whose guy is that, hmmm...)
9:15 Arroyo fouls James Jones. (ouch!)
9:15 James Jones made Free Throw 1 of 1. 83-90
8:57 Richard Hamilton makes Technical Free throw on Illegal defense call. 84-90
8:47 Tayshaun Prince made 25ft three point jumper. Assisted by Antonio McDyess. (hmm...no touches by Los). 87-90
7:58 Carlos Arroyo missed layup. 87-90 (Another clang)
7:45 Leandro Barbosa made driving layup. 87-92.
7:45 Chauncey Billups enters the game for Carlos Arroyo. 87-92.

So basically although Carlos comes into the fourth quarter with the Pistons down 8 and leaves with them down 5, my take of this is that he had more of a negative impact in the game than a positive one. This is not to say that Carlos is not capeable of better, but he really sucked this game. He will not get any props from me for not being able to keep an offensive player in front of him for 17 minutes or blowing lay up after layup or being unable to help convert easy scores against the weakest defense in the league. Chauncey walked away with 11 assists, Carlos couldn't manage 1? That's a dropoff if I've ever seen one.

During regulation periods of the 3 games the Spurs had with the Suns last year, San Antonio averaged 109 points to the Suns 104 (pretty amazingly close to Detroits 111-104 game last night). The Suns scored an average of 24 points (96 ppg average) per 4th quarter of those games, meaning that they averaged 27 points per quarter the rest of the game (108 ppg average). I don't know if this holds for the rest of the Spurs efforts, but against the Suns, it suggests that they coasted on D until the 4rth quarter, then turned on the D.

or.....it took them until the 4th quarter to solve their offensive wizardy.

I guess that some people would like to see us play that way the whole game ("the right way"), but I think that if we had tried, they'd have worn us out, and put a hurting on us in the last few minutes. (If I remember last year's game at Phoenix, I believe that we had a 10-pt lead in the 4Q and lost-could be wrong).



Last season under the "Right Way" we lost 97-100 in Phoenix. I also seem to recall a lead given up in the 4th quarter.
The way PHX was nailing jumpers last night I believe we would have lost that game under LB. Just my opinion. Would not have scored enough points.

How can you defend a team that is hitting long 2's and 3's like they were for the better part of 3 quarters?

max, absolutely, we would have lost to Phoenix last year. We would be 3-2 right now. This doesn't guarantee any championship but I think that much is evident.

Lee, you called it right on Evans. I don't believe you have a bias there. But you are way too easy on Arroyo. That is a position that may be pivotal to our championship (should be going for a three-peat).

Arroyo's statline for 14 mins:

Mins - 14 FGM-A 1-6 FTM-A 1-2 PF - 2 PTS - 3

So, you want me to give Arroyo credit for going 14 mins against one of the worst defensive teams in the league and not getting a turnover. If you count all of those bricks he was throwing up that caused a loss of possession I would say that he did have a negative impact.

Rather than addressing all of your questions how bout' we do this.

Red represents negative impacts. Blue represents positive impacts.

Start of the 4th Quarter:

11:44 Carlos missed layup 74-82 Suns (not a good start)
11:42 Ben Wallace Offensive Rebound
11:42 Ben Wallace made two point shot. 76-82 (I guess your calling that an assist?)
11:30 Eddie House missed 20 ft jumper. 76-82
11:10 Carlos Arroyo missed 18 ft jumper. 76-82 (ouch, that's 2 misses)
11:03 Leandro Barbosa made layup. 76-84 (whose man is that, hmm...?)
10:45 Tayshaun Prince made 23 ft jumper. (unassisted) 78-84
10:19 Tayshaun Price missed 12 ft jumper
10:18 Ben Wallace Offensive Rebound
10:18 Ben Wallace made two point shot. 80-84 (guess your calling that Arroyo setting up the play as well)
10:08 Leandro Barbosa's layup blocked by Ben Wallace (way to bail someone out Ben, whose his man again?)

Okay so then Carlos has some good moments...

10:03 Brian Grant Shooting Foul on Carlos Arroyo (at least it doesn't count as another miss)
10:03 Carlos Arroyo missed Free Throw 1 of 2. 80-84 (Dohhhh!!!)
10:03 Carlos Arroyo made Free Throw 2 of 2. 81-84 (Go Carlos, it's ya birthday)
9:52 Boris Diaw made layup. 81-86
9:52 Boris Diaw made free throw 1 of 1. 81-87
9:37 Carlos Arroyo made 19ft jumper. 83-87 (Carlos makes wide open shot, that a boy Los!!!!)

But then things go south again....

9:15 James Jones made 15 ft two point shot. 81-87. (whose guy is that, hmmm...)
9:15 Arroyo fouls James Jones. (ouch!)
9:15 James Jones made Free Throw 1 of 1. 83-90
8:57 Richard Hamilton makes Technical Free throw on Illegal defense call. 84-90
8:47 Tayshaun Prince made 25ft three point jumper. Assisted by Antonio McDyess. (hmm...no touches by Los). 87-90
7:58 Carlos Arroyo missed layup. 87-90 (Another clang)
7:45 Leandro Barbosa made driving layup. 87-92.
7:45 Chauncey Billups enters the game for Carlos Arroyo. 87-92.

So basically although Carlos comes into the fourth quarter with the Pistons down 8 and leaves with them down 5, my take of this is that he had more of a negative impact in the game than a positive one. This is not to say that Carlos is not capeable of better, but he really sucked this game. He will not get any props from me for not being able to keep an offensive player in front of him for 17 minutes or blowing lay up after layup or being unable to help convert easy scores against the weakest defense in the league. Chauncey walked away with 11 assists, Carlos couldn't manage 1? That's a dropoff if I've ever seen one.

Carlos Arroyo came in the game in the 3rd quarter with us down 11 points. But for a missed free throw or two, we would have tied the game up pretty much at one point. Your editing is pretty poor. Just because Arroyo got stuck guarding a player a lot taller than him does not make that his man to guard. Just the way things went at the moment.

The last play before Carlos Arroyo came out, Barbosa scored. But think about this. With a couple more free throws made, and Arroyo coming out a moment earlier, CB could have come back in with the score tied, even though he left the game with us down 11. Make fun all you want, but it won't change the fact those were 4th quarter minutes against a very good team. And Arroyo did just fine. PS, I just enjoyed that game again a couple of hours ago.

Carlos Arroyo came in the game in the 3rd quarter with us down 11 points. But for a missed free throw or two, we would have tied the game up pretty much at one point. Your editing is pretty poor. Just because Arroyo got stuck guarding a player a lot taller than him does not make that his man to guard. Just the way things went at the moment.

Can't let it die, huh? :)

"Editing is pretty poor" (chuckle). Perhaps, but not as poor as any commentary that calls this a good game by Arroyo. Did you ever think for a second that the offense was going at Arroyo because he had shown that he was by far the weakest defender in the game? Or take into account that Nash rested during this run so Arroyo was going up against Phoenix's heralded bench (sarcasm). Funny how you can overanalyze lineups but can't see the obvious.

You are right, he did come in with them down 11 points..but I guess I was giving him a break seeing that although the 4th quarter started with them making up a basket, he did virtually nothing to help them get to that point. In fact, add 3 more misses to the commentary...mostly layups. Arroyo was a liability that game. The only thing Arroyo did not do was trip over his shoe while bringing the ball up court. Lord knows that under Phoenix's pressure defense bringing up the ball was a challenge. (whateva!) Being able to bring the ball up against Phoenix in my opinion does not validate ones contribution to our team. Arroyo was NOT the player making most of the decisions on offense during that run. You want to credit him for the reason why we made up 6 points and I am basically saying that he is the reason why Nash got more rest and we didn't evaporate that lead.

Dude, if this is how you evaluate talent...you are probably still wearing a "Save Rodney White" t-shirt.


The last play before Carlos Arroyo came out, Barbosa scored. But think about this. With a couple more free throws made, and Arroyo coming out a moment earlier, CB could have come back in with the score tied, even though he left the game with us down 11. Make fun all you want, but it won't change the fact those were 4th quarter minutes against a very good team. And Arroyo did just fine. PS, I just enjoyed that game again a couple of hours ago.

Sorry, I see it differently than you. I'm just glad Arroyo's supporting cast carried him during that time. I'm not buying your "just because he was on the court that means he was productive" philosopy. I've noticed that you haven't provided any real details on how his positives outweighed the negatives for him in this game. All, I here is...well, he was out there.

Anyway, I look forward to Arroyo rebounding from this performance, but I have my eye on Mr. Arroyo. He needs to get with the program...or see if he can get you to represent him when he has to deal with Pistons management.

Its not just one game. Arroyo so far is slightly net plus despite all the bench players being net minus so far. (Look at 82games.com.) Per this, its him carrying the rest of the bench, not the other way around. But hey, its early. You can call the fact that we keep winning with Arroyo on the floor a fluke. For a while at least. So keep your delusions for the moment. They will be proven as delusions sure enough soon enough.

Its not just one game. Arroyo so far is slightly net plus despite all the bench players being net minus so far. (Look at 82games.com.) Per this, its him carrying the rest of the bench, not the other way around. But hey, its early. You can call the fact that we keep winning with Arroyo on the floor a fluke. For a while at least. So keep your delusions for the moment. They will be proven as delusions sure enough soon enough.

Again, I said he had a BAD game. lol! Not that he wouldn't contribute during the season. Funny, the lengths people will take to defend a point when they obviously have none. Nothing you have said has convinced me that he had a good game. You've only proven that it takes little to impress you unless you have an obvious bias against a player. What's next? Carlos is a quick defender because he has short hair. lol.

You've offered nothing to prove your arguement.

And at this point I'm bored with you.

:bored: