Detroit At Dallas - 8:30PM

TV: WDIV
Radio: WDFN

The 6-2 Maves are on a routine and very comfortable home stand. Their last 2 games have been wins against Denver and Atlanta on the 15th and 17th. Mavs offense was down in those 2 scoring only 83 and 87 points respectivly.


Injuries:
Mavs: Jerry Stack House - Right Knee. Has not played yet this year.
Doug Christie - Sore Left Ankle
VanHorn - Sprained Middle Finger.

Pistons - None

Notes: Pistons will have to get out of the mini rebounding funk ( out rebounded by more than 10 in 2 of the last 3 games ) to pull this one out tonight. Dampier, Diop, Josh Howard and VanHorn ( if he plays ) will try to get the Mavs as many 2nd chance opportunities as possible. Besides that try and limit Terry and keep Dirk on the outside and I think we got this one. They will miss VanHorn if he does not play as he has been off to a great start this season with 14.1 PPG and 6.4 RPG.

Sure its a back-back and a very likely ending to the winning streak but don't count out the fact that the team must be aware of Cleveland breathing down their knecks in the standings and if you look at it as just another winning streak the team record still stands at 13.

Dallas Scouting Report of this game (http://www.nba.com/mavericks/news/mavs_playbook_111905.html)



Some extra motivation: In the last pre-season game the Mavs pretty much used their standard rotation against Flips 13-guy pre-season choice for a cheap pre-season victory against the Pistons 103-97.
Oct27Game (http://www.nba.com/games/20051027/DETDAL/boxscore.html)

Mavs 119 Pistons 82

Here is the box for that pile

BoxScore - From nba.com (http://www.nba.com/games/20051119/DETDAL/boxscore.html)

this is going to be a very very close game decided by 1 call, i just feel like thats how the game will be.:noidea:

I know the players can't afford to get ahead of themselves, but I feel it's fine for us fans to: IF they win tonight, I can see the Pistons going 11-0 for sure - with wins over Denver and the Wizards. Anybody want to comment on that?

This will be the best litmus test so far of how good the Pistons really are. Beating Dallas on the road would be huge.

I know the players can't afford to get ahead of themselves, but I feel it's fine for us fans to: IF they win tonight, I can see the Pistons going 11-0 for sure - with wins over Denver and the Wizards. Anybody want to comment on that?

I'll comment. Mark it down as a loss. (But I missed both of my college football predictions today so hopefully I'm off here too)!

It's a back to back road game against a good team who has had a full days rest. The Pistons have a bullseye on their back. The Pistons like to mess around for 3 quarters before getting serious.

Blowout for Dallas.

Dallas 106 Detroit 92

Thanks for the 8 game streak guys!

This should be a great test for the Pistons. I think it will be a high scoring affair... Who will win? Stay tuned. :laugh:

(fire Carr) :frusty:

Looks like the Pistons forgot how to defend. This is ugly early 13-3 Dallas.

Tayshaun is playing like CRAP!

Obviously the fast pace and the road have caught up with the starters. Dice, Evans and Arroyo have to deliver or it is a long trip back to Motown:doh:

Glad I'm not watching this. It's gotta be ugly.

40-16 1st quarter?

When the wheels come off, they come the F*** off don't they?

I guess you'd really have no use for LB's defensive scheme in a game like this eh? Pass the cornbread.

Pistons playing lousy. Can't buy a bucket, lousy defense.

I'm very disappointed in all of the starters.

Tayshaun's been invisible

We're behind by 20+ points and all you can come up with is "Tayshaun's been invisible?" :)

Maybe we need this. I think our starters have been logging too many minutes and I wonder if that's part of the reason for this very embarrassing performance.

At any rate, they should get plenty of rest tonite.

Too bad Chauncey wasn't invisible, I'm going to have nightmares of his first Q jumpers. Oh, and Darko missed a 3, and Arroyo just airballed (but Tay got the rebound).

Hey look, K-Pax is on!

Yo TBird

Yeah, %%%%%ty game all around...they hit everything...we hit nothing and they clean the board.

We all knew it couldn't go on forever :ohwell:

We'll be fine as long as Arroyo continues to dribble out the calendar year.

We're getting killed, and Dirk hasn't done anything yet.

This is about how we played in the first half of the last two games, but the other team wasn't shooting lights out... on top of all the easy baskets.

We'll be fine as long as Arroyo continues to dribble out the calendar year.
ROTFLMAO

Well, I'm not surprised that Darko has not done much. This game has been garbage time since the 7 minute mark and we all know how he doesn't give a solid effort in garbage time...

Josh Howard > Tayshaun ?

We're getting killed, and Dirk hasn't done anything yet.

This is about how we played in the first half of the last two games, but the other team wasn't shooting lights out... on top of all the easy baskets.

This trend actually reared its head during the Phoenix game and has been present the last 3. I didn't figure they'd make it out of the Houston game, but they have managed to make up for it tonight.

maybe we needed this. We've been doing this too often-waiting until the fourth quarter to turn it on. This will teach us we can't do that against good teams.

they're making dampier look like a god tonight.

only 9 assists on 21 field goals.

I know are boys are capable of coming back from anything and that the streak had to end sometime, but just NOT like this, sheesh!!! I'm not even at a place where I can see this apparent mess that's going on (maybe that's not such a bad thing) right now. If you really think about our guys were a bit out of it last night as well, the point production was vastly off from what we had been putting up previously. Our days of barely getting over 70ish points were suppose to be over, right? Irregardless folks you can bet your last dollar you won't catch a TRUE blue Detroit Pistons fan like me jumpin ship!

FYI

Georgia Tech-Miami on ESPN lookin like a good choice for channel flippin

but we really should consider playing our subs in the fourth if we're still down by >20. There's no sense in overplaying our starters when we have no realistic chance at winning. Clearly, they need some rest, and someone's more likely to be injured in a messy game like this.

but we really should consider playing our subs in the fourth if we're still down by >20. There's no sense in overplaying our starters when we have no realistic chance at winning. Clearly, they need some rest, and someone's more likely to be injured in a messy game like this.

Not to sound like a quitter but it certainly sounds like the logical thing to do.... DEFINITELY just not worth the risk!

Well, screw this, I've watched about all I'm going to of this crap for tonight. I want to try to enjoy my Sat.

I'm hitting the strip.

Knowing the Mavs, Dirk will keep shooting and the Mavs will leave most of the starters in so everyone will know that they gave the Pistons an old fashion buttkicking:mad: . They won't make to the finals, but I am not sure if Pistons would want to see them there anyway....:confused:

maybe we needed this. We've been doing this too often-waiting until the fourth quarter to turn it on. This will teach us we can't do that against good teams.

Maybe you're right, but I wouldn't think that a veteran team would have to learn a lesson like this. The coasting is over for this team. The war begins.

Maybe you're right, but I wouldn't think that a veteran team would have to learn a lesson like this. The coasting is over for this team. The war begins.
Yeah, no doubt. Pistons don't play again until Wednesday. It's not like they needed the rest.

I'm disappointed in the execution, the discipline and the desire. The Pistons came out flat. Champs don't come out flat.

They needed this loss big time.

I think these guys started to buy into the hype a bit too much. I have not been impressed with the last 4 games the Pistons have played. The defensive focus seems to be gone and the team is shooting more jump shots and not rebounding the ball well. I selected this game in the poll that this would be a lost but I had no idea we would get blown back like this.

Oh, well the bandwagon fans and media will jump all over this game and say the Pistons are pretenders and when they played some real competition they got smoked.:mad: I think thats what this team needs!!:nod:

I'll be interested to hear them tonight. This is embarrassing and should be stated as such by the boys.

Even their scrub are out hustling ours. :doh: Anyone want to bet our bench doesn't put up more than 20 points this last quarter? So far theirs is up 14-11 with 5:46 mins left.

Terrible game all around I didn't see any positives except the fact we got blown the F * * * out.As stated earlier I think we needed this clear our heads and start outworking the other team again.

Hope we see Acker & Johnson too

Don't feel too bad guys. No way they were going to even compete in this one. They will be fine. This was a HUGE game for Dallas. Too many things were against Detroit. They will be just fine. They are the same great team they were this morning. Just add a loss to their record. Plenty more wins and several losses to come.

It was in the stars. :) Don't worry...be happy!!!!

8-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice.

It had to end sometime. I just wished we'd have been the first team to go 82-0 but it's alright.

I'd like to see the boys gather themselves and just pick up and start another streak.

Let's go Detroit.

Oh and yeah those media and critics are gonna be all over this game. We're losing by almost 40 and will say that it's validation for them. :mad:

But it's alright.

Start another streak boys. GO DETROIT!!!!

I know you can't win em all...BUT...this one was a real eye-opener regardless of the back-to-back and that they shot the lights out. The D was non-existent as was the O.

Few boards, few steals, few assists...and no ball movement

Well to quote myself, the bench puts up exactly 20 points in the fourth with J-Max leading the way with 7 points. With Dice struggling, Maxiel should be coming off the bench sooner. :eyebrows:

Dice 0-5 shooting tonight and killing me every game in my fantasy shooting pct! (Got Kobe too and he has put up 70 shots in the last two games but at least he's giving me points):frusty:

Pistons leading rebounder was Sheed with 5!

That could be the lowest leading rebounder in Pistons history.

Gee, the first quarter was a disaster. Our shots are not falling, and everything Dallas put up in the first quarter went in. And if they missed, they got the rebound and still put it in. Is Ben hurting maybe. He certainly is not clearing the boards.

Dyess continues to miss shots. Worse, he did not even take a wide open one, so his confidence is about gone. Except for the first minute, Arroyo played the whole 2ns quarter. We cut the lead down some, but we still are down 21 to start the 2nd half. Ain't looking too good at the moment for our win streak.

Evans is just flat out the wrong guy to depend on as the main sub for Tay. In this game, he came in and was completely overmatched by Josh Howard. I still say put Amir Johnson in some. We got to develop this kid. Maxiell is another possibility.

Darko missed a hook shot, but good to see him receive the ball in the post and get a decent shot attempt off at least. Man the rust is thick from this guy not playing for two years. He also missed an outside shot.

Delfino hit a shot, looked ok on defense. None of the bench players stayed in all that long except for Arroyo. Although Evans and Dyess did come in early in the first. Which did not help at all. Again, Evans is too short, Dyess ain't hitting his shots.

CB tried to take over the game when nobody else was hitting on their shots, but it was not there. Playing the 2nd of a back to back may be the problem. Man, they can still win this one. GO PISTONS!!!!!

game report

8-0. Still pretty good. Oh well, I guess we all knew the Pistons would not go 82-0. We debated about a bench player a lot today. And more debate about others, but our starters got kicked to the curb tonight. We made a start at a comeback in the 3rd quarter. We were a made triple from being just down 15 with still lots of time to go. Just not to be though.

Our bench has problems. Evans is too short to play small forward. It will work against some teams, but any team with a taller small forward is going to have an advantage on us. Dyess is doing worse than ever. Worse yet, these are the first two guys the coach brought in off the bench. Not a lot of help.

About the only bright spot tonight was some good shooting by Maxiell in garbage time. For the record, Maxiell has yet to play any minutes with the game still on the line. I say its about time to change that, both at small forward instead of Evans and at power forward instead of Dyess. At least some and see how it goes.

Darko scored on a dunk and another time on a goal tended shot he got off driving in. Underhand scoop if I recall right. Davis got in the game for a few minutes at the end of the 3rd qaurter, start of the 4th. About it for tonight. Denver is next Wednesday night. GO PISTONS!!!!!

Dallas was ready for us, period. If I bet pro-sports, it would have been an easy play. I am not worried about Dyss. I remember last year. At this time I told a friend that the guy can't hit a shot. He will be there as the season goes. Our bench in general and our back-up point is an issue. Lee may be right about Evans being small to back-up Tay. And we need to keep Tay's minutes in check. The bench still need more defined roles. I would like to see Delfino more. The problem with Darko is that you can't count on him for offense--he will need time. Don't worry. Denver lit us up last year about this time on the road.

I note that Dampier (Dampier!) had as many rebounds as our entire starting five. Yikes! Our guys made him look pretty mighty tonight, and up until this point in the season, he's been underwhelming to say the least.

I also note that as a team, we got outrebounded by 21 (47-26).

Ugly. :P

About the only bright spot tonight was some good shooting by Maxiell in garbage time. For the record, Maxiell has yet to play any minutes with the game still on the line. I say its about time to change that, both at small forward instead of Evans and at power forward instead of Dyess. At least some and see how it goes.

I haven't agreed with you often in the past. I agree with you partially on this one. Dice is in a funk...I'd be willing to throw JMax in there with the starters to see what he can do. IMO, JMax has the potential to be Prince-like in his impact to the team at a young age, tho not in a starting role for a while. You're RIGHT...give him some time and see how it goes.

Personally, I like what I've seen from MoE so far this season. He can hit shots, he boards, and he has ENERGY! Not a bad pickup for JoeD...as usual.

The second unit is lacking sorely in leadership. When Tay stays out with the second unit, he keeps deferring to everyone else when IMO he is the best player on the floor. Better than Arroyo, Delfino, Dice or Darko...

Article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=ApzgoZOkZ4f_n9h2LNALezu8vLYF?gid=200511 1906&prov=ap

-- Box Score (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251119006)

The domination on the boards stands out. The fact that we got beat by 37 points and still had 2 more assists is interesting.

Delfino 20 minutes, 4 points, zero other stats. Contrast that with Dice, Evans and Arroyo who were all able to at least have some impact out there besides shooting...

Another very mediocore effort from Darko. 1 foul per 4 minutes, 1 rebound per 8 minutes. Totally shown up by J-Max in my opinion. Maxiell lead the bench in scoring with only 7 minutes in the second half.

2 steals and 2 blocks is not Detroit basketball. It's not effort defense. I can take the loss, but not the lack of hustle or energy. The bench was very, very, very poor.

The second unit is lacking sorely in leadership. When Tay stays out with the second unit, he keeps deferring to everyone else when IMO he is the best player on the floor. Better than Arroyo, Delfino, Dice or Darko...

IMO, that is TP's only weakness(?) to date...he is not a leader. He has a quiet demeanor and doesn't want the spotlight. He will play his ass off and do anything at either end to help the team, but doesn't want to be put at the helm. If he doesn't want to lead...that's okay with me. It would be nice if he took it on as a challenge, but I don't think it's in his nature...yet.

The beautiful thing about this team is that there are no prima donnas...not even Sheed. CB is a leader, but not a PD.

The Pistons DO need a second floor leader. So far, Arroyo ain't it. I'm not sure Lindsey will be up to the task when he returns, but not from lack of heart or floor intelligence.

I was sorry to not see Acker get playing time last night. Tho not a pure PG, I'd like to see what he can offer in the leadership role. Last night was one of the probable few times this early season that he could have played that role.

Acker & Johnson should have both had time last night.

I was mining for quotes in this morning's stories. Here's one from Sheed, which is great as always:

The Pistons were impressed with Darko Milicic on Friday. In the second quarter, he got entangled with Dikembe Mutombo. Mutombo stuck a finger in Milicic's face. Milicic never backed off.
He then went on to block two shots, one of them Mutombo's.
"I'm telling you, Darko is a Serbian gangster," Rasheed Wallace said. "Darko's got some bodies back there (in Serbia-Montenegro). He can go psycho on guys."

-- Box Score (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251119006)

The domination on the boards stands out. The fact that we got beat by 37 points and still had 2 more assists is interesting.

Delfino 20 minutes, 4 points, zero other stats. Contrast that with Dice, Evans and Arroyo who were all able to at least have some impact out there besides shooting...

Another very mediocore effort from Darko. 1 foul per 4 minutes, 1 rebound per 8 minutes. Totally shown up by J-Max in my opinion. Maxiell lead the bench in scoring with only 7 minutes in the second half.

2 steals and 2 blocks is not Detroit basketball. It's not effort defense. I can take the loss, but not the lack of hustle or energy. The bench was very, very, very poor.

darko is much more of a team player than jmax in my opinion. when jmax touches the ball it's going up no other player on the team is going to touch it. darko plays the team game a little bit too much i wish he would be like jmax sometimes and look to score everytime he touches it. but often darko runs the offense sets picks and looks for the nice pass to an open teammate.

delfino played pretty good defense. the young athletic players of dallas weren't driving right past him like they were against the other piston players. i think dice is making a bid for being the 4th big off the bench. is dice "earning" his minutes??? it's time for jmax or darko to get a look at the 3rd big.

Irregardless folks

woohoo an irregardless sighting!! :laugh:

detteam, acker and johnson couldn't play last night - they are on the inactive list or whatever. by the way, for those that didn't get to watch the game, Maxiel had 3 clean blocks but was called for a foul on every one of them. The kid played absolutely fantastic - made an 18-footer, a turnaround jumper, and abused people on defense (just didn't get the benefit of the calls).

mcdyess is still not getting the shots where he wants them and is forcing the shots anyway. arroyo was inconsistent as usual but didn't play that poorly. everyone's shot was off because they were trying to force it rather than run the offense, but that's what happens when you're down by 25. it also caused extra turnovers, like rip and sheed driving the lane, having nowhere to go, and passing it out *right* to a Dallas guy.

i think you guys misjudge how the media is going to react to this - it's barely a blip on the ESPN page (and thankfully they all had college games to talk about :)).

listen, shiz happens. indiana lost to charlotte by 33 and had trouble with them a couple nights ago. dallas shot 17/21 in the 1st quarter and ben was out for most of it...i mean what are you going to do? i watched most of the game and dallas made about 10 circus shots *while* getting fouled - they just couldn't miss. the bench got to play all of the 4th and it was really good experience for them, especially on the road for a fired up dallas crowd.

on a sidenote, my buddy and i were at Hoop City Grille last night to cheer on his stepsister for the unveiling of the Automotion Swimsuit Calendar - and WOW the girls look great this year!! the calendar is much better than last year's, and it helped to erase the smell of last night's game.

so the pistons lost, u of m lost, msu lost...a bad day for michigan sports, which can only mean...a LIONS VICTORY TODAY!! woohoo!! :P

darko is much more of a team player than jmax in my opinion. when jmax touches the ball it's going up no other player on the team is going to touch it. darko plays the team game a little bit too much i wish he would be like jmax sometimes and look to score everytime he touches it. but often darko runs the offense sets picks and looks for the nice pass to an open teammate.
Darko's not aggressive enough period. I think he gets let off the hook with the "team game" stuff.

delfino played pretty good defense. the young athletic players of dallas weren't driving right past him like they were against the other piston players. i think dice is making a bid for being the 4th big off the bench. is dice "earning" his minutes??? it's time for jmax or darko to get a look at the 3rd big.
Marquise Daniels took Delfino and whoever else guarded him to the hoop all game. I like Dallas and I like when he does it to other teams. I did not enjoy watching him do it last night.

DMC & Playstation both need to start bringing their A-Game. Before I read anymore Dice for Darko nonsense, Darko needs to actually impact a game. Delfino too. If Dice and Arroyo are not going, DMC and Delfino need to start stepping up and playing like important pieces of this team.

Plenty of blame to go around, but the young guys are showing very little, and they were supposed to be the backup plan.

It's obvious to me that Dallas is much further ahead with their youth movement from Harris to Diop, Daniels to Howard than the Pistons are.

Darko's not aggressive enough period. I think he gets let off the hook with the "team game" stuff.

darko is very aggressive on the defensive end. he is a great pick and roll defender and a great shot blocker. he also sets great picks on the offensive end.

he needs to be more aggressive on the boards and looking to score that's about it. these are coaching areas. i think he is deferring to mcdyess to score on the second unit.


Marquise Daniels took Delfino and whoever else guarded him to the hoop all game. I like Dallas and I like when he does it to other teams. I did not enjoy watching him do it last night.

DMC & Playstation both need to start bringing their A-Game. Before I read anymore Dice for Darko nonsense, Darko needs to actually impact a game. Delfino too. If Dice and Arroyo are not going, DMC and Delfino need to start stepping up and playing like important pieces of this team.

Plenty of blame to go around, but the young guys are showing very little, and they were supposed to be the backup plan.

It's obvious to me that Dallas is much further ahead with their youth movement from Harris to Diop, Daniels to Howard than the Pistons are.

what impact is dice having on the game besides the impact of his bricks hitting the rim? darko and delfino need the minutes to have an impact on the game. delfino has played very good this season but still his minutes have been limited. dallas isn't much further ahead on thier youth movement they just have to put thier youth on the floor. our youth isn't even really into our rotation yet but they will be integrated soon and then we can better judge how they are.

darko is very aggressive on the defensive end. he is a great pick and roll defender and a great shot blocker. he also sets great picks on the offensive end.

he needs to be more aggressive on the boards and looking to score that's about it. these are coaching areas. i think he is deferring to mcdyess to score on the second unit.
Yeah, he's aggressive with blocks. He's not aggressive on the boards. Defensive rebounding is the primary responsibility of the bigs. Not trying to block every shot.

I don't think coaching has anything to do with chasing boards or going hard to the hoop with the ball. That sounds a lot like an excuse.

what impact is dice having on the game besides the impact of his bricks hitting the rim? darko and delfino need the minutes to have an impact on the game. delfino has played very good this season but still his minutes have been limited. dallas isn't much further ahead on thier youth movement they just have to put thier youth on the floor. our youth isn't even really into our rotation yet but they will be integrated soon and then we can better judge how they are.
We'll see. I'm seriously doubting that our youth is as good as advertised. Delfino played 20 minutes and came up with 2-5 shooting for 4 points. Lindsey Hunter can do that.

I'm inclined to agree with Micro on the overrated youth on our team (production being the ultimite gauge)... however as you might expect a very green bench will play like a yo-yo... typically playing bad on the road and better when the crowd is behind them (let's track road vs home stats).
We're gonna have to wait till near the 2nd half of the season to see which way the 2nd unit goes... we've been very fortunate so far to be able to let them get some on the job training and still get W's.

IMO, They are hiding Acker's skills for next years contract when HUnter is gone.

If it came down to a close game and you needed some scoring from the bench who would you put your money on ...Jmax or Dice?.. I'm not ready to give up on Antonio yet (besides I want his trade value to go up for next year)

At this point Dallas has a better bench (possibly best in the association)... most of those guys have at least one year under their belts... I think we should just stay the course and monitor any improvement (or lack of) before making a move...

Wonder if Joe will make a move before the deadline.

In reading the various posts, I find that I agree with a lot of them but sometimes my feelings get in the way.

I agree that the bench needs to score more but I also feel that the bench usually holds whatever lead they are given, and I think that even last night, when the bench was in there, they did not fall further behind.

I really wish Darko would go into the games and look to score. I note that he is constantly passing quickly to a more open teammate but they do win games by points, not assists. He sees the floor pretty darned well because he does not hesitate at all in getting rid of the ball, like clear across court to Delfino who then made the open shot. But I still want him to look to score.

I note also that when he is trying and actually blocking shots, it takes him out of position for the rebound. The ball virtually always comes down somewhere else than where he is because he is blocking the shot. I guess they better decide if they want the blocks or the boards.

It may be my letting him off the hook, but it seems that quite a bit, he does work well to box someone out and has good rebound position and virtually always when he does, the ball goes into the basket. Seems like everytime he is open for the rebound, the basket is made.

I still come down to the feeling after DMC plays that I am disappointed that he did not look to score more. I am not sure whether his two buckets last night in Dallas were good looking shots because I was busy trying to reformat my hard drive on this %&*%#M*&<% computer to watch the game as well as I needed to. Also, it was only two shots in what, 15 minutes? Can't see them all. I wish he would do something to rid me of this vaguely disappointed feeling when he plays during the earlier parts of the game.

Yeah, he's aggressive with blocks. He's not aggressive on the boards. Defensive rebounding is the primary responsibility of the bigs. Not trying to block every shot.

I don't think coaching has anything to do with chasing boards or going hard to the hoop with the ball. That sounds a lot like an excuse.

in your opinion defensive rebounding is the primary responsibility of the bigs. but when darko is in the game he alters the game. people have to think twice about coming to the hole against him. he alters lots of shots and blocks lots too. don't underestimate the value of a shot blocker down there. yes rebounds are important but darko creates lots of rebounds for his team just by shot alterations. in my opinion sheed isn't exactly a good rebounder does that mean he isn't a good defender?

coaching has a lot to do with the way darko plays on the offensive end. if flip called the plays and called darko's number every time and told him he was the # 1 option to score when he's in the game darko would look for his shot. what is sheed's excuse for not going hard to the hole?? i bring up sheed often because lots of the things dmc is talked about for sheed shares the same weakness in his game but noone speaks on it.


We'll see. I'm seriously doubting that our youth is as good as advertised. Delfino played 20 minutes and came up with 2-5 shooting for 4 points. Lindsey Hunter can do that.

delfino also rebounds and throws assists making his teammates better something lindsey doesn't do. delfino is shooting a high percentage and is unselfish so he isn't just jacking up shots to get the numbers. he's been much better on defense this year too. he's great in the passing lanes.

evans is shooting a good percentage from 3. he's rebounding and providing energy. i haven't seen the lockdown defense just yet.

darko is a shot blocker and a great pick and roll and post defender. he's more than held his own against some of the best bigs in the league. bigs that were dogging ben didn't get the same shots against darko. just needs to work on rebounding. darko has also raised his shooting percentage. he just needs to start believing he is the go to guy in the 2nd unit.

arroyo has brought his shooting touch with him this year. the guy is a scorer and he makes great passes to people in scoring position. he makes his teammates better. he's also worked on his defense and he's another energy guy. he just needs to work on getting rid of the ball sooner.

jmax is the sleeper of the bunch. although he won't pass to save his life when he does shoot it goes in. he also is aggressive on the rebounds and defensively.

dallas has one of the best benchs in basketball. it's not fair to compare ours to them. lots of thier bench players had time as a starter and played heavy minutes. our bench players haven't exactly had that luxury. being developed on a piston bench is one of the hardest things in basketball.

what delfino can't do that lindsey can is stick with fast gaurds, and we needed that yesterday against dallas.

what delfino can't do that lindsey can is stick with fast gaurds, and we needed that yesterday against dallas.

what delfino can do that lindsey can't do is shoot, pass, layup and run the offense. we just give up too much offense when lindsey is in the game. he should be used as a spot defender. not our main backup. let the young guys play and learn the game and get better.

dallas will maybe give us trouble in the finals if they make it there. but in general we don't come across quick guards in the playoffs on contenders. if we do chauncey now has the freedom to abuse them at will. look at what those quicker smaller guards were doing against chauncey in the boston game. so let dallas be happy with winning thier game last night. it won't matter come playoff time.

We are a very good team...Two things we learned Saturday...1). U Cant win them all. U can lose 12 out of 28 games in the playoffs and still be called World Champion! So I aint studdin 1 loss...
..B) 8 and 1 over the course of the year comes to 71-11 and we aint gonna do that.,,,and
Third) We just need home court advantage. I see us going 35-6 at home and 26-15 on the road for 61-21.
BTW...Houston is a great people town. As crazy as I acted , they were so competetively friendly with me. I had my Piston WChamp poster and held it over my head constantly.
My favorite moment was on the jumbotron dance cam, dancing to "Freak out" with my poster. People died laughing!:laugh:
There was a young 19yr old about 15 rows over and we wolfed on everybody, yelling things like "It's so quiet!" and "Where yall at?"
I had popcorn throw at me in honor of my support and joy.....
and the funniest moment of the night was when BigShot was wide open for that 3pointer topthe key and EVERYBODY in the crowd went "OHHH, NOOOO!":laugh:

I took a picture with two of the finest cheerleaders ever b4 the game and talked to Luther head for 5 minutes in his car. I told him he has Joe Dumars potential and to relax- it will all come in time.

The capper...a signature on my poster from...get this...Bill Walton. We talked bout Detroit's potential and he talked to me like I was John saunders!! It was just the same!:laugh: I felt great...
Nothin like being at an out of town game. I was part of the team and tay and Chauncey gave me appreciate winks and nods.....

All in All.....better than s*x...for one night anyway...my bruddahs!

Arroyo and Hunter make a nice 1-2 punch as backups to Billups. When we need a stop, we bring in Hunter, when we need to keep the offense flowing we bring in Arroyo.

Too bad there isn't a way to meld both players into one. Lindlos Huntoyo or Carlsey Arronter.

:laugh:

We are a very good team...Two things we learned Saturday...1). U Cant win them all. U can lose 12 out of 28 games in the playoffs and still be called World Champion! So I aint studdin 1 loss...
..B) 8 and 1 over the course of the year comes to 71-11 and we aint gonna do that.,,,and
Third) We just need home court advantage. I see us going 35-6 at home and 26-15 on the road for 61-21.
BTW...Houston is a great people town. As crazy as I acted , they were so competetively friendly with me. I had my Piston WChamp poster and held it over my head constantly.
My favorite moment was on the jumbotron dance cam, dancing to "Freak out" with my poster. People died laughing!:laugh:
There was a young 19yr old about 15 rows over and we wolfed on everybody, yelling things like "It's so quiet!" and "Where yall at?"
I had popcorn throw at me in honor of my support and joy.....
and the funniest moment of the night was when BigShot was wide open for that 3pointer topthe key and EVERYBODY in the crowd went "OHHH, NOOOO!":laugh:

I took a picture with two of the finest cheerleaders ever b4 the game and talked to Luther head for 5 minutes in his car. I told him he has Joe Dumars potential and to relax- it will all come in time.

The capper...a signature on my poster from...get this...Bill Walton. We talked bout Detroit's potential and he talked to me like I was John saunders!! It was just the same!:laugh: I felt great...
Nothin like being at an out of town game. I was part of the team and tay and Chauncey gave me appreciate winks and nods.....

All in All.....better than s*x...for one night anyway...my bruddahs!

WTG My Bruddah!!!! :laugh:

Man, I hope I have nearly as much fun when I head to Utah for a game in 3 weeks. We'll be front row up top so we won't get to meet the Pistons or anything and I ain't the type to dance with a sign over my head. I'll probably get jumped and beat down just for applauding politely when the Pistons score.:fencing: lol.

WTG My Bruddah!!!! :laugh:

Man, I hope I have nearly as much fun when I head to Utah for a game in 3 weeks. We'll be front row up top so we won't get to meet the Pistons or anything and I ain't the type to dance with a sign over my head. I'll probably get jumped and beat down just for applauding politely when the Pistons score.:fencing: lol.
Just giveem whacha got, bruddah! But u got to represent in the red, white and blue! There had to be 25 fans of the stones that i talked to in the crowd and lobby! Rep-pree-sent!....my bruddah!

Just giveem whacha got, bruddah! But u got to represent in the red, white and blue! There had to be 25 fans of the stones that i talked to in the crowd and lobby! Rep-pree-sent!....my bruddah!

Will do! :whoo:

in your opinion defensive rebounding is the primary responsibility of the bigs. but when darko is in the game he alters the game. people have to think twice about coming to the hole against him. he alters lots of shots and blocks lots too. don't underestimate the value of a shot blocker down there. yes rebounds are important but darko creates lots of rebounds for his team just by shot alterations. in my opinion sheed isn't exactly a good rebounder does that mean he isn't a good defender?
I don't think that Darko has the "rep" that you think he does. Not yet.

Sheed is a great rebounder. On a team that rebounded well last year, he had 8+ game and 2+ offensive boards.

Look, I know what Darko is supposed to be able to do. It's just that at some point he's going to have to come into a game and actually change it to be considered very good. Blocks, boards, steals etc. Remember, the standard is high this year.

My point about Delfino wasn't more "general" stuff. I was speaking specifically about last night's game. He didn't have the excuse of being tired from the back to back. 5 shots, 2 makes, zero other stats. Not even a turnover or foul.

In 63 minutes so far, he has 2 dimes, 1 block, 1 steal and he has been to the line in one game only (8 appearances).

Delfino's not some high school player. He was in the Euroleague playoffs as a starter 2 years ago. He was on the 2004 Argentine Olympic team.

At some point these young guys have to have a Devin Harris like impact. They need to come in and light someone up like Maxiell did. I wonder if the score would have been closer if J-Max could have done his thing earlier in the game...

Solid post Micro... I'll also agree with what Bball says about Delfino's offense vs. Hunters (although he should start to actually show some of this potential sometime soon)... problem with Delfino is he often cost the team equal or more by not staying with his man (it's starting to improve slightly).

With Darko, can anyone remember him coming up with a loose ball on the floor... or a put back slam?... this would show quick bball instincts... which is much more important than some shuttle speed drill.

His defensive footwork was excellent against Houston.

So what's the next step for the fly swatter?

He can start by using some of his natural athletisism on a P&R and drive hard to the rack to draw some fouls... this does not require much thought process (when he usually gets in trouble)... maybe he can gather some confidence early in the game to get on a roll.

Wasn't offense the big selling point on his draft profile?

Quote by Merc:
"With Darko, can anyone remember him coming up with a loose ball on the floor... or a put back slam?... this would show quick bball instincts... which is much more important than some shuttle speed drill.

His defensive footwork was excellent against Houston.

So what's the next step for the fly swatter?

He can start by using some of his natural athletisism on a P&R and drive hard to the rack to draw some fouls... this does not require much thought process (when he usually gets in trouble)... maybe he can gather some confidence early in the game to get on a roll."

Man, I am dieing here waiting for these types of things to happen. I have seen him dive for loose balls; there is a clip that illustrated one of Flip's interviews about helping your young players, which showed him helping DMC up after DMC had dived for a loose ball.

I have seen him get offensive boards and go back up and put it back, but have not seen any of those flying put-back slams.

It is my fondest wish that he come in looking for his shots, inside. Or driving which he has done on occasion, but really going after it. I mentioned before that I always feel vaguely disappointed when he comes in and just plays "D". :frusty:

I don't know if he has to wait for his number to be called or what, but he needs to come in and make an impression. I would like to see him come in like JMaxx until they tell him to cool it. He just seems to be looking for assists, like a PG. :doh: He needs to act like at least the second option in scoring when he is in there.

You know I have been thinking that he CAN make a difference THIS year, but after just a few games, he does not show it, yet.

With Dyce doing poorly, it seems like DMC could pick up some minutes, but he is acting like he wants to defer to Dyce, and several others. Not the way to do it, Darko.

I don't think Darko's offense is there. He is way further along defensively. I don't think Flip trusts him offensively. What we need to do is turn him loose as a shot blocker for short stretches--play to his current strength. Our bench players need to have defined roles. The Lakers had a weak bench but there guys had defined roles and it brought three rings. The bull's bench had defined roles.

I don't think Darko's offense is there. He is way further along defensively. I don't think Flip trusts him offensively. What we need to do is turn him loose as a shot blocker for short stretches--play to his current strength. Our bench players need to have defined roles. The Lakers had a weak bench but there guys had defined roles and it brought three rings. The bull's bench had defined roles.

i agree one of the problems with our bench is they don't have defined roles. i think if flip told delfino and evans to come in and run and gun with arroyo things would be bettter. told darko he's the # 1 option on offense in the halfcourt. darko's offense is there i think he just defers too much. like someone said maybe he needs to come in the game like the black hole (jmax) and look to score every time he touches it. i think flip needs to go down the line with the bench and tell them exactly what he wants from them. if he told darko every rebound he gets adds another minute of playing time. darko might be a rebounding madman. just a thought.

if he told darko every rebound he gets adds another minute of playing time. darko might be a rebounding madman. just a thought.

I like that! LOL Darko needs to be in the game more. I'm all for doing this in the framework of the teams goal but dang man did he block mutumbo's hook shot staight up? huzzah.

I don't think Darko's ever dominated in the way that most NBA players did in their younger days. Because of his height and physical abilities, he's been stuck in places beyond his actual abilities and therefore he's always been a project. Its always been: one day he'll be great.

I think that Laimbeer should be hired as Darko's motivational coach.

I think that Laimbeer should be hired as Darko's motivational coach.

I am with you. Lambs would be perfect because he was a player who, despite limited capabilities (like no hops, lack of quickness, etc) made a real name for himself and was a huge contributor to the Pistons championship years.

I we could add the motivation and mean streak to the abilities Darko already has, we would have a winner. I am tired of this disappointed feeling I get when DMC comes off the floor. He should be making a real impact already, on both ends of the floor.

If he doesn't watch out, those footprints up his back are going to be from JMax. I am beginning to believe that a young player in this league needs to be more selfish. When Darko comes in, it seems to me like everything he does is designed to be team-oriented. Running around setting picks, slapping balls out to other players instead of grabbing the boards and jamming them back in. He needs to be more of a selfish, score first player, until he is told different.

It seems that you need to do that to get noticed, and maybe to build trust that you CAN to those things. Leading the league in shot-blocking has not done it. One reason is that when you position yourself to block shots and accomplish that, you are not in position to get the rebound. You create those ops for your teammates, but don't really get much trust or credit built up.

Evewn when he has been blocking shots and the other teams have been running the lane with wild abandon, Darko was not put in. Maybe he is not trusted yet, but it seems like in those situation, you need to start trusting your player. So the player needs to do something else to get noticed and trusted.

I think you both make very good points.

The more I think about it, the more I want to see Laimbeer as an assistant coach. :nod: I think he would be a great fit and would be a perfect compliment to what I perceive as Flip's more laid back approach.

OK, the streak is over....play the bench already! If they can't hack it we need to know now so Joe can work his magic and rob some other team.

Speaking of Laimbeer and trades... if I recall, McCloskey got him from Cleveland with some other guy (I can't quite remember who it was...some pf I think), but anyhow, I think Laimbeer was just the throw in guy in that deal. Heck of a throw in, eh? :nod:

I don't think that Darko has the "rep" that you think he does. Not yet.

Sheed is a great rebounder. On a team that rebounded well last year, he had 8+ game and 2+ offensive boards.

Look, I know what Darko is supposed to be able to do. It's just that at some point he's going to have to come into a game and actually change it to be considered very good. Blocks, boards, steals etc. Remember, the standard is high this year.

My point about Delfino wasn't more "general" stuff. I was speaking specifically about last night's game. He didn't have the excuse of being tired from the back to back. 5 shots, 2 makes, zero other stats. Not even a turnover or foul.

In 63 minutes so far, he has 2 dimes, 1 block, 1 steal and he has been to the line in one game only (8 appearances).

Delfino's not some high school player. He was in the Euroleague playoffs as a starter 2 years ago. He was on the 2004 Argentine Olympic team.

At some point these young guys have to have a Devin Harris like impact. They need to come in and light someone up like Maxiell did. I wonder if the score would have been closer if J-Max could have done his thing earlier in the game...

In that 2nd quarter, a hot team that had just scored 40 points was held to 16 points. And Delfino was out there for a good deal of the quarter. He contributed good solid D.

In that 2nd quarter, a hot team that had just scored 40 points was held to 16 points. And Delfino was out there for a good deal of the quarter. He contributed good solid D.

I've been impressed with Delfino's effort on D. He's looking much more comfortable out there and is trying hard.

Speaking of Laimbeer and trades... if I recall, McCloskey got him from Cleveland with some other guy (I can't quite remember who it was...some pf I think), but anyhow, I think Laimbeer was just the throw in guy in that deal. Heck of a throw in, eh? :nod:

In 1981-82, the Pistons acquired Bill Laimbeer and Kenny Carr from Cleveland for Phil Hubbard, Paul Mokeski and two picks. Hubbard and Mokeski were decent for Cleveland but Laimbeer was the Pistons starting center for the next ten years, made four All-Star teams, and maxed out at 17.5 ppg and 13.1 rpg.

If he doesn't watch out, those footprints up his back are going to be from JMax. I am beginning to believe that a young player in this league needs to be more selfish. When Darko comes in, it seems to me like everything he does is designed to be team-oriented. Running around setting picks, slapping balls out to other players instead of grabbing the boards and jamming them back in. He needs to be more of a selfish, score first player, until he is told different.

It seems that you need to do that to get noticed, and maybe to build trust that you CAN to those things. Leading the league in shot-blocking has not done it. One reason is that when you position yourself to block shots and accomplish that, you are not in position to get the rebound. You create those ops for your teammates, but don't really get much trust or credit built up.

Evewn when he has been blocking shots and the other teams have been running the lane with wild abandon, Darko was not put in. Maybe he is not trusted yet, but it seems like in those situation, you need to start trusting your player. So the player needs to do something else to get noticed and trusted.

i agree if darko isn't adding 10 points to those couple of blocks he gets he might be glued to the bench. he has the offensive skills it's time to use them. i too am sometimes left with a bad taste in my mouth after darko plays. it's like he's so much more than a defensive presence. but then again he's probably been told that defense will get him playing time and he's focusing on that. it's just the playing time isn't being given.