Here's my breakdown by position of the 2006 World series:

POS TIGERS CARDS ADVANTAGE
1B CASEY PUJOLS CARDS.....Pujols is the 2nd best player in the world...Ichiro is Number 1

2B POLANCO BELLIARD TIGERS ...mvp of the Tigers
SS GUILLEN ECKSTEIN TIGERS...better run production from guillen, but we need to contain Ecksiein's intangibles
3B INGE ROLEN EVEN...A healthy rolen is best 3rd bagger in the game, Inge best team player in the game
C PUDGE MOLINA TIGERS...the best defensive catchers in baseball will make base stealing obselete
LF MONROE WILSON TIGERS...Mr Clutch for the Tigers started 9th inning rally vs A's in Game 4; Wilson will be wildcard
CF GRANDERSON EDMONDS EVEN...Trust me! This will be the difference maker positin in how they go, so goes their teams.
RF ORDONEZ ENCARNACION TIGERS...my prediction based on the ALCS; Maggs will be the MVP
STARTERS.....TIGERS....They are the reason this could be a sweep. i just cant see anyone on the Cards hurting this sataff over 6 innings , IF THEY ARE ON!
RELIEVERS.....TIGERS.....This aint even close, even witha healthy IGGY
BENCH..........tigers...aside from Duncan, there is no fire power on the Cards bench
MANAGERS......EVEN...As even as even can be. But Larussa must be smarter in the intangible department.

WORD UP: DETROIT , in spite of 19-31, were the baseball team of the year. No other team came close to 40 games over .500 but the Tigers. and if yall think they good now WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR! TIGERS in 5!!

Tigers in 6 here. Of course I would love another sweep, but I think a clincher at Comerica next Saturday and even the Lions come out on the field to celebrate:)

Tigers in 5. They will jump all over the Cardinals starting pitching (maybe except Carpenter) Otherwise, the Tigers offense should look really good. And then they will have to pitch Pujols really well, especially if anybody is on base. It all starts today, and I can't wait.

We would not want to piss off the Cardinals when they read this :pound: , so I won't say the Tigers in 4.

Instead, I will say the Tigers in 6, and that is being conservative.

This is the year. They had their cold streak and are re-peaking.

Tigers in 6 here. Of course I would love another sweep, but I think a clincher at Comerica next Saturday and even the Lions come out on the field to celebrate:)

I thought you didn't like to make predictions, Dre? :MusicBigGrin:

Tigers chat is open, Saturday October 21st.

The Tigers have to get there bats going. Two runs in a game won't get you anywhere. Verlander needs to get going also along with there whole pitching staff. Todays game at 8:00 is a very important game for the Tigers, TO WIN.

The Tigers have to get there bats going. Two runs in a game won't get you anywhere. Verlander needs to get going also along with there whole pitching staff. Todays game at 8:00 is a very important game for the Tigers, TO WIN.

interesting analysis of the Tiger's performance at the plate:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/specials/playoffs/2006/10/22/extramustard.game1/index.html

I thought you didn't like to make predictions, Dre? :MusicBigGrin:


You are right when it comes to a whole season, because you never know what key player will get injured in the first month or what other team will have an unexpected breakout (like this years Tigers)

But in a short series you can look at the monentum and throw a prediction out. Of course now that theory is thrown out as the momentum seems to be in jeopardy since they did not play for 6 days. I for one was worried about that, but hopefully they regain that momentum swagger and grab 4 out fo the next 5 games!!! Go get-em Tigers!:thumb:

I think that's the last game the Cards win. I bet they don't score more than 4 a game for the series. Reyes came out of nowhere. 5 wins is the lowest win total for a series starter ever. Kinda like Jim starting Nate.

Tigers cheating like crazy!

I just saw Casey lean into a pitch, and Kenny Rogers is using Pine Tar (apparently).

I read up on Wikipedia, it's pretty normal for pitchers to use Pine Tar. It's a trade secret...

Tigers cheating like crazy!

I just saw Casey lean into a pitch, and Kenny Rogers is using Pine Tar (apparently).

I read up on Wikipedia, it's pretty normal for pitchers to use Pine Tar. It's a trade secret...
Freakin Blue Jays fans :)

Tigers cheating like crazy!

I just saw Casey lean into a pitch, and Kenny Rogers is using Pine Tar (apparently).



%$#*&^%$#@!^&&**(**#@@@$%^&*(()%%$# CANNUCKS!!!! Stick to hockey! :rant2::angrysoapbox:

:pound:

Look, he was cheating the way pitchers do all the time. I'm fine with it.

What I find hilarious are the Detroit fans who want to pretend nothing was going on.

The refs handled it right, and Kenny has been flat out dominant anyway. Kudos to him for not letting the hand washing deal affect his concentration.

Look, he was cheating the way pitchers do all the time. I'm fine with it.

What I find hilarious are the Detroit fans who want to pretend nothing was going on.

The refs handled it right, and Kenny has been flat out dominant anyway. Kudos to him for not letting the hand washing deal affect his concentration.

I was kidding.

Kenny said it was just dirt... it was that sticky pine tar looking dirt... works for me.... all kidding aside that was a dumb move risking getting tossed.... not like he needed it.

Ol' Jonesey is gonna cause some premature heart attacks.

Maybe the rust is gone now... gotta get those bats going.

Kenny Rogers says it was a dirt mark on it's hand and the Umpire supervisor Steve Palermo says it was mud. Looks like this was a situation brought up Tim McCardinal in the Fox booth that trickled down to the Cards dugout and then out the umps.

Yeah, I hope the rust is gone from the Tiger bats. They will need more than 3 a game to finish off the Cards, I think.

Todd had Kenny crappin' his diapers in that last innning. You could just see him wishing he was back out there. He didn't throw a hundred pitches. The trouble was with the fielding and Kenny is a gold-glove pitcher.

All's well that ends well, but his heart was in his throat there for a while. Mine was, too.

i would've let rogers finish the game but hey - jones does this every couple times, so maybe we got it out of the way with no harm done ;D this game could have easily been 7 or 8 to 0. hopefully we'll capitalize better on opportunities. it still looked like we had some very poor at-bats, but then again the cards were throwing 1st and 2nd-pitch strikes.

It's phenominal how well Jimmy's move have worked out... there's no way Kenny should have been outta the game... but I think he wanted to get Jones some work in.... The cards haven't seen zoom yet.... he'll get a lot of work in St. Louis

Tigers cheating like crazy!

I just saw Casey lean into a pitch, and Kenny Rogers is using Pine Tar (apparently).

I read up on Wikipedia, it's pretty normal for pitchers to use Pine Tar. It's a trade secret...

First you claim that Kenny Rogers is using Pine Tar, and some guy will end up by saying that the Sainted Gaylord Perry had been capable of using some mysterious, nefarious accretion on his baseball from time to time. :rolleyes:

First you claim that Kenny Rogers is using Pine Tar, and some guy will end up by saying that the Sainted Gaylord Perry had been capable of using some mysterious, nefarious accretion on his baseball from time to time. :rolleyes:
Gaylord Perry... that guy sure knew how ta get into batters heads... his autobiography was titled Me and the Spitter.... most of the time they couldn't find any substance

Sticky situation: what, exactly, is cheating?
Sporting News, The (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208), July 1, 2005 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_26_229) by Todd Jones (http://www.findarticles.com/p/search?tb=art&qt=%22Todd+Jones%22)
Baseball rules clearly state that you cannot use any foreign substance on the baseball to gain an advantage--no pine tar, Vaseline, sandpaper, shaving cream, whatever. The rules also say that hitters cannot doctor their bats to give them an advantage. (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_26_229/ai_n14702169)

Here is an entertaining and great rundown of the incident. Kinda funny. Kinda sad.



The point isn't whether it is believable that a pitcher wouldn't notice a huge clump of dirt (if it was that) on his pitching hand. The point isn't even about Kenny Rogers, whose left hand was brilliant both clean and dirty. He's a secondary story here.
The point is that faced with suspicion, controversy and potential scandal, Major League Baseball once again did what it always seems to do – covered its eyes, fell back on its history of silence and hoped it would all go away, unwilling to find out what, if anything, was going on.


Caught looking - MLB - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlUD1vlonFQiC9ccpoCDyKE5nYcB?slug=dw-rogers102206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

If anybody has follow Bill James (the Sabermetrics guy from "moneyball"), he argues that the "closer" role in baseball tends to make the closer look better than he is and also mis-uses his talents.

Basically, any decent pitcher thrown into the game in the 9th inning with at least a 2 run lead will end up winning 95% of the time. So, the argument goes, why would you waste one of your best pitchers in that situation?

Maybe Jones is overrated. He has put us in a couple really dangerous spots in the postseason so far.

I thought Jimmy's coments last night was funny... he said Jones will be going thru PFP (pitchers fielding practice) before he gets on the bus tonight

I thought Jimmy's coments last night was funny... he said Jones will be going thru PFP (pitchers fielding practice) before he gets on the bus tonight

I caught that, too. Leyland was NOT pleased with that play. He rarely will get sarcastic like that. Translation: "That could have cost us the ballgame and quite possibly the Series.

more on kenny rogers' poopy hands... an awesome take (at least for a relative novice like me)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.rogers/1.html

more on kenny rogers' poopy hands... an awesome take (at least for a relative novice like me)

SI.com - Writers - 'It was pine tar' (cont.) - Monday October 23, 2006 5:26PM (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.rogers/1.html)

First of all, common Prof, if you're going to link to an article, you've got to link to the first page. That's bush league man. You're better than that.:P

Secondly, is it just me, or does that "bullpen coach" sound mildly retarded? I mean, the guy repeated himself about 50 times! He just kept saying the same things over and over again. It was painful to read.

It was hard to stay focused on the article. All I could think about was wanting to give the poor guy a hug and say "Its ok. We get it. He used Pine Tar, not shaving cream or suntan lotion. You can stop talking now."

Hahaha... sorry jammer, got a little excited. All this is cheating stuff is way new to me, especially the fact that it's not new or uncommon in the slightest. I kind of thought the details of how they do the stuff, and how Kenny might have been a bit sloppy with the junk seemed kind of interesting.

It also seemed odd and to me entertaining that the whole thing consisted of nothing but quotations. I'd never seen that before.

oh yeah, but apologies for the pain. :)

First of all, common Prof, if you're going to link to an article, you've got to link to the first page. That's bush league man. You're better than that.:P

Secondly, is it just me, or does that "bullpen coach" sound mildly retarded? I mean, the guy repeated himself about 50 times! He just kept saying the same things over and over again. It was painful to read.

It was hard to stay focused on the article. All I could think about was wanting to give the poor guy a hug and say "Its ok. We get it. He used Pine Tar, not shaving cream or suntan lotion. You can stop talking now."

Hahaha... sorry jammer, got a little excited. All this is cheating stuff is way new to me, especially the fact that it's not new or uncommon in the slightest. I kind of thought the details of how they do the stuff, and how Kenny might have been a bit sloppy with the junk seemed kind of interesting.

It also seemed odd and to me entertaining that the whole thing consisted of nothing but quotations. I'd never seen that before.

oh yeah, but apologies for the pain. :)

Hahaha, apology accepted. Now don't let it happen again. :thumb:

I agree with you though, the article was very odd. It was almost entirely quotations. Two pages of quotations that gave us 1 sentance worth of information.

I had no idea that the issue was as wide spread as it is. Apparently its the norm rather than the exception.

P.S. I got a nice laugh from your "poopy hands" description! :pound:

First you claim that Kenny Rogers is using Pine Tar, and some guy will end up by saying that the Sainted Gaylord Perry had been capable of using some mysterious, nefarious accretion on his baseball from time to time. :rolleyes:
Obvious man strikes again hunh? :( My bad.

Honestly though, I didn't know who Gaylord Perry was! :D

Wasn't Gaylord Perry mostly known for his knuckle ball...or am I remembering someone else? And speaking of the knuckle ball...does anyone in the majors still throw one? For those that have never seen one...it comes to the plate at change-up speed with no spin at all and it floats all over the place.

Why would a pitcher use pine tar since it's so visible? I have a little jar of some sticky stuff in my bowling bag that is transparent.

Wasn't Gaylord Perry mostly known for his knuckle ball...or am I remembering someone else? And speaking of the knuckle ball...does anyone in the majors still throw one? For those that have never seen one...it comes to the plate at change-up speed with no spin at all and it floats all over the place.

Why would a pitcher use pine tar since it's so visible? I have a little jar of some sticky stuff in my bowling bag that is transparent.
Thinkin about Phil Neikro?

Thinkin about Phil Neikro?Thanks merc :)

I found a piece from Gaylord Perry that's pretty funny :pound:


Yard Work » Perry, Gaylord (http://www.yard-work.org/?cat=96)

Wow, everyone is shutup around here.

Big deal, the Tigers lost. They'll be back tonight, swinging the kindling and throwing some fireballs.

Show some spirit people!

Carpenter is tough to beat. And Suppan might be as well. But after that, we should have no trouble getting the series back to 3-3. But then we'll have to see Carpenter again. Losing that Verlander game was like having your serve broken in tennis... if there are any tennis players out there.

The problem is if it goes seven, we got to go with Nate Noruns vs Carpenter again. So the Tigs have to take this in six with Dirty hands Rogers closing it out in six on Saturday.

That means three straight W's. The Tiger batters have to be more patient than they were last night and make the cardinal pitchers work and draw some walks to get on base. It ain't over yet folks....

LaRusa was overly classy about the whole thing. But Roasters had been getting away with that for 2 playoff series. The rule is," nothing on the hands of the pitcher". He could have been ejected.
As for Zoom's gaff, that 1,5,?? DP hasn't been tried in a W.S. since 1905 or something long dead.
Inge needs to stop doing his Neifi P. imitation. Props to Neifi for that big glove stop.
Tigers might be in trouble. The pitching matchups and schedule aren't in our favor anymore.

The problem with being patient against Carpenter was that he was throwing strikes on almost every first pitch. We were getting behind on the counts and then his curve was killing us. He was similar to Kenny Rogers in that respect.

I thought that we should have been prepared to swing at the first pitch a lot more often after he showed that he had the control. It was almost always a fastball down the middle.


Also, I don't really understand the criticism of Zumaya's throw to third base. Why was that such a bad decision? He just screwed up the throw... and it didn't matter anyways because we didn't score a run.

Yeah I'm surprized at the lack of first pitch swinging. I noticed that against Mussina. I would've had no problem with Zooms move if he had stopped the runner. Kinda like taking the wind...

:rain: Rain delays could be bad for Tigers...once again the bats are idle and if game 4 and 5 get delayed until Friday and Saturday, we may see Carpenter again in game 5 instead of six or seven.

That means if the Tigers don't get by Suppan, we may be looking at Carpenter again early in game 5 and already down 3-1:pray:

Rogers is scheduled to pitch game 6. He may have to be moved up to game 5 if we are down 3-1. :( Of course if there are major weather delays and this goes into November, we might be able to get Rogers to pitch games 5 ,6 and 7 !!!

aaaaaarghhhhh

aaaaaarghhhhh

i mean: yayyyyyyyyy

Watching the Tigers is giving me an ulcer.

Watching the Tigers is giving me an ulcer.

no lie! it's absolutely killing me. they look so so so fragile.

ARGH!

Zumaya pitching scared, the whole team is scared. This is terrible.

ARGH!

Zumaya pitching scared, the whole team is scared. This is terrible.

i hate to say it, but the cards seem to me to deserve this so far, they are the far steadier team.

If the Tigers could halve their mistakes, they would be winning this game and this series.

Too many screwups.

I've been too nervous to watch almost any of it on television. It's all I can do to just watch the boxscore.

That being said, no matter what happens, I'm totally proud of the team for their accomplishments. I would LOVE for them to win, but I will honestly not feel too bad if they don't.

They came outta nowhere and besides, I like the Cards and their manager.

If the Tigers could halve their mistakes, they would be winning this game and this series.

Too many screwups.

yeah, exactly. that's the steadiness factor. i don't see the cards beating themselves. i don't really know if baseball is like basketball in this respect. but it seems like the equivalent of shooting 50 % from the line and average 20 turnovers a game in the finals: you're not going to win.

Unbelievable.

Every single run the Cards scored had some sort of Tiger screw-up attached to it. From Monroe mis-fielding the base hit and allowing the runner to get to 2nd, to Zumaya making another pitcher error... it was brutal. And you gotta let the left fielder throw the guy out at the plate on a short hard hit. He had the ball in his mitt before the runner hit 3rd base.

We have a very good chance at getting wins with Verlander and Rogers, but then it's do or die against the Carp.

Despite being charged with only one error tonight, there were so many miscues, and all led to a run. Every time the Cards got a runner on second, they scored.

Some of those Cards should have never got to second.

Aaron Miles scores on a double by Eckstein after stealing second on a dropped ball by Polanco

Scott Rolen gets a double after Monroe slips and the throw to second is an inch late. Molina doubles him in.

Eckstein doubles to center after Granderson slips on the wet field. He scores on Rodney throwing error to first and then Togushi reaches second and of course he scores on Wilsons single.

Zumaya walks the first batter and later a runner eventually gets to second on a wild pitch or passed ball on a strike out. Of course that runner on second scores on the ball that just misses the outstretch glove of Monroe.

The wet field did not help, the Tigers got hits, but still left 8 or 9 batters on base and never got the clutch hits that the Cardinals got. :(

Our pitchers have been deadly when not throwing to the plate. :rolleyes:

This was game of inches and the Tiger were an inch short on several occasions.

Does Leyland gamble on the gambler or take a chance on the rookie Verlander.

Is Tim MCardinal ready to bust out of his pants with glee???:)


One last prayer of hope for Tigers:
In the the previous world series between these two teams? The team that won game 4, lost the series:fingerscr

This whole series thing is way ahead of schedule for these kids... understandable that nerves would be a factor.... weren't the Carrdinals in the series a couple years ago?
This will be known as the game they gave away...
Leyland said he would not put "Kenny in this environment" meaning he won't pitch in st Louis... you gotta believe without "smudgegate" he'd be in there tomorrow.

just brutal to watch. gross. fielding errors are going to cost us the series. shoulda been 2-2 or 3-1 detroit right now.

One last prayer of hope for Tigers:
In the the previous world series between these two teams? The team that won game 4, lost the series:fingerscrAnd in both of those series, the eventual winning team was down 3-1.

Game 5, here we go... grandy already struck out

Damn Inge, Good followed by bad. Snap out of it!