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Pistons vs Bucks
October 13th, 2005 ~ 7:30 pm
Palace of Auburn Hills (http://www.palacenet.com/), built 1998, league leading capacity 22,076
TV: FSN Detroit
Radio: WDFN

[micro] Don't forget that NBA.com is streaming preseason games in League Pass audio for free!

Preseason Preview: Game 2

The Pistons will open their second pre-season game, the first game to be played at the Palace of Auburn Hills, against the Milwaukee Bucks on Thursday, October 13th at 7:30 p.m. After a season that ended with a disappointing 30 wins, the Bucks are looking to make improvements this year. The Bucks, led by Michael Redd, are hoping that their new addition Andrew Bogut, the number one pick of the 2005 NBA Draft, will help move them up in the Central Division.

Probable Starters

Detroit - Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace and Wallace
Milwaukee - Ford, Redd, Mason, Smith and Bogut

Injuries

Detroit - Lindsey Hunter
Milwaukee - None

Box Score (http://www.nba.com/games/20051013/MILDET/boxscore.html)

Play-by-play (http://scores.nba.com/games/20051013/MILDET/PlayByPlayPrint.html)

POST #26 in this thread has a great recap done by LanierFan. Make sure you check it out.

RECAP - AUBURN HILLS, Mich. (AP) -- Chauncey Billups scored 16 points and Darko Milicic added 10 points and nine rebounds helping the Detroit Pistons beat the Milwaukee Bucks 95-88 in a preseason game Thursday night.

Tayshaun Prince added 10 points for Detroit while Ben Wallace had eight points and 13 rebounds.

Maurice Williams led the Bucks with 19 points, while former Michigan State star Charlie Bell, who last played in the NBA in 2002, had 12.

Milwaukee was missing three key players to injury -- Michael Redd (groin), T.J. Ford (hand) and Joe Smith (knee). Andrew Bogut, the top pick in this year's draft, started and scored three points in 21 minutes. He had six rebounds and four fouls.

Detroit led early with its starters on the floor, but Milwaukee took a 44-39 halftime lead against the Pistons reserves.

Billups hit three 3-pointers early in the third quarter to help the Pistons lead 67-64 at period's end.

Both teams went to their benches again for the fourth quarter, but this time the Pistons held on. Maurice Evans had six points in an 12-3 run that gave Detroit a 79-69 lead with 8:09 to go, and the Bucks never seriously threatened.

TJ Ford making a comeback. Another game I won't get on TV. :(

TJ Ford making a comeback. Another game I won't get on TV. :(

yeah, this really sucks...I was looking forward to seeing that.

Looking forward to this game. I want to see a few things specifically concerning DMC.

(1)Try and get him some run with the starters because I want to see him against Bogut.

(2) DMC vs Kukoc, should be interesting.

(3) DMC vs Joe Smith.

(4) J-Max against Bougut, Josh Davis and especially against Brandon Hunter.

(5)Delfino and Evans trying to defend Simmons, Mason and the former Flinstone Charlie Bell.

(6) I want to see Evans vs Redd.
- This could happen in the regular season if a starter gets into foul trouble, I want to see if Mo can defend the other teams best 2/3 if needed.

Yeah the Bogut/Darko matchup should be interesting.
During the DMC draft hype they said that most years he would have been a #1 pick.... so here we have a #1 pick with less NBA experience than Darko...
I would like to see Darko take this as a challange to show that he belongs as an elite pick... go out and take it to Bogut.
I don't want to see him giving up offensive rebounds
His next big step will be to start hitting some of them open shots.

Can we keep TJ from getting inside?

Let's don't forget their new guy Simmons... doesn't seem like they'd pay that much for him to be a backup
Or does Mason start?
Too many SG's/SF's could lead to a trade (also have Gaines, Ilyasova, Welsch, Kukoc)

I think Gadzuric is underrated... solid backup big (rated high in efficiency ratings).

One of the most athletic teams we'll face this year.

I heard they were considering putting him at PF to make room for both he and Mason.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but supposedly that's what they were going to try.

I'm hoping/expecting that the rookies play tonight.

Yeah, the darko/Bogut matchup should be really good.


I tried the NBA.com thing, but wasn't sure where to look to stream or how to do it.:confused:

I heard they were considering putting him at PF to make room for both he and Mason.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but supposedly that's what they were going to try.

Let's hope they do put Simmons @ PF... Sheed or Dice would destroy the 6' 6" kid.

I'm hoping/expecting that the rookies play tonight.

Yeah, the darko/Bogut matchup should be really good.


I tried the NBA.com thing, but wasn't sure where to look to stream or how to do it.:confused:
Left hand side, NBA Audio pass or something under League Pass.

Click on it, and it brings up a listing of games.

yeah, this really sucks...I was looking forward to seeing that.

Oh yeah both of you don't live here...can you at least get radio?

Also I want to really see Darko take Bogut, and I want Maxiell to play against him too. He gave fits to bogut in college according to some people.

FYI...League Audio Pass is free during the exhibition games

www.wdfn.com (http://www.wdfn.com) streams for free, too. Gotta register.

I am getting the game live out here in SoCal. So far the starters look good and they are attacking the rim. The game is close, but the Wallaces are dominating the boards!!:)

Ben still has not mastered the FT's yet:frusty: missed four already!

Bogut making silly fouls and Darko just got in as they found a license for him to get on the floor ....:eyebrows:

somebody better check carlos arroyo. i've always said this guy is a scorer. he's hitting the j this will only open things up for his passes. second unit looking better than the starters so far.

i with the refs would let some of boguts fouls go. i want to see the guy play.

second unit looking better than the starters so far.
:loco:

Second unit can't score, mostly because nobody can get open. Arroyo inspires no confidence in me as the "floor general." I wish we had another veteran backcourt player on our roster, preferably a vet PG. (Not to overlook Hunter...maybe he's all we need). Too many youngsters in our 2nd unit.

I'm feelin' a lot better about this bench... Arroyo looks like the Jazz version tonight... the guy can indeed shoot the rock...
Shooter and setup man comin' off the bench... alright!

Jmax needs more time to show his worth.
Darko... defense only... he's better at not giving up the "O" borads... but still leaving his man on occasion... great on interior "D" though

Other than Arroyo and Dice, the second unit looks tentative. Delfino still looks lost. J-Max looked good on D, but not getting the ball at the right time on the O' side. :doh:

Need to see Acker and Johnson to see if they put some energy in this unit in the second half. (Pistons down 44-39 HT score)

:loco:

Second unit can't score, mostly because nobody can get open. Arroyo inspires no confidence in me as the "floor general." I wish we had another veteran backcourt player on our roster, preferably a vet PG. (Not to overlook Hunter...maybe he's all we need). Too many youngsters in our 2nd unit.

second unit was doing a good job scoring until jmax and dale davis came in. arroyo is doing a great job we all knew he could pass and distribute now he's showing that he can score too. what more does he need to do to inspire confidence?

jmax looks a bit nervous out there. maybe he will settle down after halftime.

Other than Arroyo and Dice, the second unit looks tentative. Delfino still looks lost. J-Max looked good on D, but not getting the ball at the right time on the O' side. :doh:

Need to see Acker and Johnson to see if they put some energy in this unit in the second half. (Pistons down 44-39 HT score)

delfino is just simply too unselfish. flip needs to tell him to score and distribute. i think the second unit is still trying to find out thier roles within the unit. mcdyess knows his role is to score, arroyo's role is to set everyone up, darko's role is to hold down the paint. everybody else is just trying to feel themselves out.

i think i'd add darko to the list of second unit players that looked pretty good. darko altered lots of shots, rebounded well and scored a few buckets. he still made a couple of stupid fouls though.

arroyo is doing a great job we all knew he could pass and distribute now he's showing that he can score too. what more does he need to do to inspire confidence?

I want Arroyo to succeed, but so far I haven't seen sharp decision making from his end. We all know he dribbles too much. He forces passes that aren't there. Frankly, he looks out of control much of the time. And while he might be a fun playmaker during the regular season, he's one of the last people I want running our team during the playoffs. But we'll wait and see what his time with Flip will do.

ps. the fieldgoals tonight are surprising, but they mean little unless he proves that he can do it regularly.

A trend I have noticed with Arroyo. He either scores or puts up assists. It's not that often that he does both. Anyway, it's not the LB paradigm of PG as floor leader, so I suppose that any positive offensive contribution validates the floor time.

I want Arroyo to succeed. I truly believe he is the key to success for the second unit.

Just checking out the live box score, it really looks like Rip is marginalized in this offense. Can anyone watching the game verify that?

I'm listening to it and the youngsters played well it sounds like from Blaha's exclamations. Darko nearly had a double double. I think that's great. Sounds like he altered some shots, too, as well as blocking some. Glad the arrest didn't bother him. Sounds like he just shook it off. Anyone see Maxiel's power jam? Blaha was yelling pretty loud.

Do you think that Flip hasn't yet put in all the plays that feature Rip? He may be an option in many plays but not the focus of the ones they've installed so far. I'm not worried.

For what it's worth, I know that a couple of fantasy league "experts" were saying to stay away from Rip or draft him lower than normal because he was the Piston who was going to have his production significantly reduced in Flip's offense. Again, that was just a couple of fantasy writers.


Grrrr. Why does nba.com keep repeating "the game you are tuning in to has not yet started"???? I want to hear this thing!

Rip wasn't marginalized, he was missing good shots. They're shots more in the middle of the court now, but he'll start making them.

23-21 Detroit after 1, 44-39 Milwaukee after 2, 67-64 Pistons after 3 and 95-88 at the end. Story of the game was that the Bucks were too small to deal with both Ben and Sheed playing at near-peak levels. Story within the story was a flat game for Bogut, who had something like 3 points, 4 boards and a couple nice assists. Ben was, shall we say, extremely focused on Mr. Bogut. Swatted one weak scoop to Belleville and intimidated several others, then grumbled when the rookie got bailed with a few FTs.

Darko started tight but outplayed his Croatian counterpart with 10 pts, 9 boards and 4-5 shooting in just 14 minutes. Showed much stronger on the boards, getting a great offensive rebound and 3-point play in the fourth before giving way to Glynniadakis, who ran around and screened with little effect.

Starters were fine in quarter 1 and gave way to the bench, which laid a big fat 16-point egg in the second. Arroyo shot well but doesn't grasp the fact that in this offense, good things happen in the middle of the court -- dribbling to the baseline or playing 2-man ball on the wing just results in things getting jammed up. He did a poor job orchestrating. Quick reversals to the high post, then cut to the hoop from the wings WITHOUT the ball ... that's how it's supposed to work. Carlos disappointed with that and his terrible defense on Charlie Bell, who beat him off the dribble frequently. Looks like CBell will be in the league a while.

Ben and Sheed were great. Rip did some nice things, missed some makeable shots and tried to be a passer with deadly results to fans courtside. Tay again played a low-key game, not shooting very well.

After the terrible 2nd unit offense (10 TOs by half) left them in the hole due to a 14-7 fast break disadvantage, the starters came out flat and gave up a couple of quick buckets before a 12-0 run highlighted by a trio of 3s from Billups ... one after a miraculous save by Ben, who was really feeling his oats. Then the starters got a little bored but were too big and aggressive to give up the lead against a Bucks team without Michael Redd. Evans came out playing like the rookie Richard Jefferson, missing a lot of outside shots but releasing like crazy and leaving the pack behind for breakaway dunks. He's got some jets.

All three rookies played. Maxiell could always be found by looking for debris and bodies on the floor. He got a foul within a few seconds of entry late in the 2nd quarter, knocked his first guy down 40 seconds after that, and then spent a lot of time banging into people. He was intimidating a few people, and ended up with some tough boards and 7 points (including one thunderous jam). Watching him bang with Brandon Hunter was pretty scary.

Amir J. came in five minutes into the fourth and got a foul a few seconds later ... followed, surprisingly, by a great offensive rebound and pretty reverse layup. Then Acker, who'd come in a couple of minutes later, stole the ball and gave it to Amir for an UGLY top of the key jumper that somehow leaked into the basket. Great leaper, nice body control, awful shooting release.

Acker didn't shoot much, but handled the ball competently. All in all, not an inspiring game but a win's a win.

Carlos Arroyo = 21 minutes / 0 assists.

Alex Acker = 6 minutes / 3 assists.


Maybe that's something, maybe that's nothing. Worth mentioning anyway.

Thanks for the recap LanierFan. It is truly appreciated.

Post #2 in this thread also has post game info.

.

Maxiell could always be found by looking for debris and bodies on the floor.



LOL! That's funny :laugh:

(except that sounds like Rodney White too...shooting people and puking).

Maxiell won't be the one losing his lunch after a collision, I can tell you that. He reminds me of one of those college football players who joins the basketball team when the roster's short. Instead of finding space, they find guys to run into. Job gets done, but it's not exactly the sport you're expecting.

Bogut didn't look awful, but I believe they held him without a field goal. He was tight. Showed pretty good quickness and some nastiness, clutching on Darko's jersey a fair amount. Maybe that's a little Croat-Serb race hatred, I don't know. I would have liked to see Darko post him some, but only Delfino really seems to feed Darko the ball in his good spots. Arroyo usually whips it really hard while running in a different direction, and it's not classic postup material.

PS: Todd Day jacked it up the moment anyone even FAKED a pass in his direction. No conscience whatsoever. He got a couple of baskets and a near-accidental assist ... but he ain't shooting his way back into the league with that kind of selfishness.

Both of the games so far were broadcast live on Fox Sports out of Detroit. Seems like quite a few are not able to get the games, but I am wondering where they live if they cannot get Fox Sports. They are channel 31 on Charter Cable in our mid-Michigan area.

Hope you guys do not miss many more. They are playing well so far and will only get better.

with regards to Rip's offense, Flip said himself in an interview that he hasn't really called plays for the guards yet. i'm not too worried about Rip and Chauncey getting their points. to me, it looks like Flip's focusing on the bigs now and knowing full well the guards can score when they want to:

"Every set we have rolls over into first, second, third, fourth options," Saunders said. "Part of it (on Tuesday) was that guys were getting open shots off the first or second option."

Which were, in most cases, opportunities for the frontcourt players. That won't always be the case, obviously, but Saunders has yet to install sets that feature his high scoring backcourt.

"We will eventually," Saunders said, laughing. "I figure those guys will always figure out a way to get their points."

Saunders actually wouldn't mind if Billups or Hamilton wound up as the fourth or fifth option.
"When you get to your last option, you have run your offense through and the ball has changed sides and you've moved the defense over," he said.

"The shot clock is winding down, and that's when you want the ball in one of your better guy's hands, a guy who can make a play."

I only get FSN games if the Canadian networks pick them up via NBATV.

Unfortunately, preseason coverage is sporadic at best.

Can't expect the Canadian networks to disrupt all those groovy Bruno Gerussi "Celebrity Chefs" marathons for basketball. Maybe they'll have some time later in the preseason after the big Mister Dressup retrospective for the sweeps period.

Darth buddy, anyone that dedicated to following the team should seriously consider league pass.... it's Piston nirvana... break down and fork out the $169 (spread out)... I hate to see a fellow out of town Pistonite suffer.

Wouldn't be too hard on Arroyo... he had a real nice first half.... the scoring was a pleasant sight.

Jmax just gets it done... it's ugly but effective... I'll take that over an overhyped kid (fill in your own name) that struggles to get it done.

I do not want to see JMax wasting on the bench... he's ready to play right now.

Amir, enjoy your stay in Fayetteville... sorry Lee

What's with Chauncey not driving inside?

Flip did say he had no plays lined up for his guards yet.

I'm starting to appreciate Flips offense... al lot of movement
TheLow don't be a Flip hater... most of us appreciate what LB accomplished (Darko still praises him)... You know I'm a big LB supporter... but I do believe it was time for a change... we can't assume that Larry would have continued to get the most out of this team.... I think there's a short window for extremely demanding coaches to make a positive impact on their team before they start to tune them out.

Didn't get to watch the game, but I did get to read the post game posts. The Lanier description of JMax has me fired up. He was a beast with the Bearcats, and (hopefully) will be a beast in the NBA. I hope they find some room and play him often. I would like to see him ready to put in a few minutes against Artest this season. I could see Ron Ron gettin real frustrated with a guy he can't push around.

...(if u havent seen The New "longest Yard" u dont know what i mean....all in all , we played good, BUT our three rookies are very impressive!!very very impressive!:eek:

I knew Arroyo could shoot. But I have not seen that he can be the point guard that we need. Delfino can pass well but I thought he was suppose to be a shooter? Darko can play but he is not a traditional post player (as many have cited) and not sure he can handle a Shaq even for a short spell. Maxiel is awesome but where does he play? He is too short for many power forwards. Is he quick enough for small forward? Can he guard Artest? The other rookies will not be in the rotation. How about that little west-coast offense when Chauncey lit it up? Why jam it in, set it up when you got a Chauncey wide open? Bam. That three point sequence will have any team reeling in a game.

I agree. Larry had his run with the time. That Chauncey fire power would have been useful last year. All Flip had to do was give him the green light. It is a different philosophy about offense in this three point era.

JMax had a beautiful block too. While having tree trunks for arms, he also looks to have pretty fast hands.

Is it me or there is no love for my kid? I didn't get to see the game (it's hard to get the Detroit local channels when you are 3,000 miles from michigan:ohwell: ) On the first game all I heard about him was how much he overdribbled and how he was trapping himself. Also heard that he couldn't score. Today he score a little and everybody is saying that he's unable to score and pass in the same game.

Arroyo is going to do both in a frequent basis.:nod: This is just the second preseason game, for crying out loud, and some people here believe we are in the finals already!!!:frusty: Common' guys, Flip believes in CA,so does JD. Relax, breath and enjoy your time. Arroyo will be here for the playoff and when that time comes, we will be praising his game and will be considering Flip a genious for how he turned around CA, CD, and Darko into productive players.

I do hope that you are right. But I have said consistently that Arroyo can shoot (Larry wouldn't let him) but so far, he has not shown me the ability to penetrate and dish--to create havoc for the other team. We need a back up point guard to do this. When he penetrates, he usually winds up taking a tough shot. Please, I hope you are right about him. yes, it is early.

I knew Arroyo could shoot. But I have not seen that he can be the point guard that we need. Delfino can pass well but I thought he was suppose to be a shooter? Darko can play but he is not a traditional post player (as many have cited) and not sure he can handle a Shaq even for a short spell. Maxiel is awesome but where does he play? He is too short for many power forwards. Is he quick enough for small forward? Can he guard Artest? The other rookies will not be in the rotation. How about that little west-coast offense when Chauncey lit it up? Why jam it in, set it up when you got a Chauncey wide open? Bam. That three point sequence will have any team reeling in a game.

Maybe the question should be...will Shaq be able to guard Darko??

Is it me or there is no love for my kid? I didn't get to see the game (it's hard to get the Detroit local channels when you are 3,000 miles from michigan:ohwell: ) On the first game all I heard about him was how much he overdribbled and how he was trapping himself. Also heard that he couldn't score. Today he score a little and everybody is saying that he's unable to score and pass in the same game.

Arroyo is going to do both in a frequent basis.:nod: This is just the second preseason game, for crying out loud, and some people here believe we are in the finals already!!!:frusty: Common' guys, Flip believes in CA,so does JD. Relax, breath and enjoy your time. Arroyo will be here for the playoff and when that time comes, we will be praising his game and will be considering Flip a genious for how he turned around CA, CD, and Darko into productive players.

He has been doing well. Looks a lot more comfortable out there and he will lossen more as the season goes on.

I think Its safe to say at this point that there is no real competition for the backup point position.

But in a 10 guy set his mins may not be more than 10-15 MPG.

www.wdfn.com (http://www.wdfn.com) streams for free, too. Gotta register.

oh crap...I will make sure I don't miss the next game. thanks folks! :)

Both of the games so far were broadcast live on Fox Sports out of Detroit. Seems like quite a few are not able to get the games, but I am wondering where they live if they cannot get Fox Sports. They are channel 31 on Charter Cable in our mid-Michigan area.

Hope you guys do not miss many more. They are playing well so far and will only get better.

Live in Tampa, FL.

what's up with Darko picking up so many fouls?Too slow, too unexperienced, too horny to block shots?

what's up with Darko picking up so many fouls?Too slow, too unexperienced, too horny to block shots?

Your last guess is the best one. He's trying to play extra-aggressive, so he's gotten a lot of loose ball/blocking calls while hitting the boards and showing aggressively against pick & rolls. Inexperience got him a needless over-the-back foul on a missed free throw last night, but he grabbed some nice offensive boards and the refs are starting to let him play. With our depth up front this is exactly how he should be playing.

Listened to the game on the radio. I don't have digital cable where I live so I can't get NBA League Pass. Anyway, it sounded as if the three ball could be a big part of the offense this season if things continue the way they are. They shot 12 last night. I'm wondering if the offense should mix it up a little to keep the defense honest. If the Pistons completely abandon the post-up game, I think it's a mistake. Hopefully, Flip will look at the matchups from game to game and tailor an effective offense.

By the way, I really enjoy your breakdowns of the games. They are very enlightning and appear to be dead on. Thanks, bruh. Much appreciated. :thumb:

I second what Motown said. Your recaps are far better than what is generally posted on detnews.com

I agree with MotownPride and ggazoo. I watched the game and LanierFan's summary described it incredibly well. Especially the debris and dead bodies in JMax's wake. He is the enforcer many were asking for last season. I don't think you even have to send him in with a mission.

LanierFan pretty much hit the nail on the head with his posts. But ol'KGREG still has to put in his 2 cents.

A few rushed jumpshots by Delfino and Evans early in the shot clock.

Carlos Arroyo......not really bad, but not really good either, he's doing a POOR job of orchestrating this offense. Last night he shot really well, but he still has a tendency to dominate the ball during the shot clock leaving only one option to be ran on offense. LB harped on Arroyo wanting to make THE play, when alot of times it's very effective to make the pass that leads to the assist. He just doesn't seem to get it. Start the offense early and give the ball up, cut through, set pick, flash and get it back. In Flips offense their is alot of player movement that is dependent on ball movement also.

Darko could have had 15 rebs if he'll start going after the ball with a vengeance the way, Ben, J-Max and MoEvans do. Sometimes he reaches instead of grabbing. But I'm confident that it'll come in time.

Delfino can't shoot.......sorry guys. Hope he turns it around, but dude is a brick layer under Union Contract, real good slasher though, but he can't shoot free throws either?!?!?!?!?:doh:

The 2nd unit for a moment got caught up running up and down the court at times and failed to take of the boards and ball, gave up many off rebs and had too many TO's.

Carlos Arroyo, shot the ball VERY well, had some sweet passes that didn't get converted to assists.

Carlos Delfino, great in the open court, had a few nice dishes. Solid on defense, by no means a stopper but it seems as if he's lost the concrete Nike's and matador mentality.

MoEvans, dude is strong as hell, he's so frikking tough it's rediculous. If he was 6'7" instead of 6'5", his contract would have been 5x's as much as it is now. Underestimating his ability to play the wing because of his height is about as bad as those that underestimated Barkley and Ben for the same reasons.

Darko, darn near a double-double. Darko has alot of skills alot players just don't have. This year he will just get better and better, when he realizes what he can do on the court with his size and skills, he will be a real plus for this team.

J-Max, LMAO, another strong bully, sometimes it's ugly but he's effective, really gets after it. AJ, scrawny little runt....but not afraid to get inside and stick his young butt in the mix......and to have a jumper as ugly as he's got, he's not gun shy......go ahead young fella.

PG: Chauncey
SG: Moevans
SF: AJ
PF: Jmax
C: Ben

Now AJ may be Scrawny, but he's like that little runt that no matter what type of beat down he's getting, he'll just keep coming back....you gotta kill him to stop him.

PG: Chauncey
SG: Moevans
SF: AJ
PF: Jmax
C: Ben

Now AJ may be Scrawny, but he's like that little runt that no matter what type of beat down he's getting, he'll just keep coming back....you gotta kill him to stop him.

I remember once reading a quote from Sheed about Ben and rebounding that said something to the effect of, "he's beating me up for rebounds and I'm on the same team!" The tough unit might have some Piston-on-Piston casualties. Despite that risk, it'd be fun to see the looks on the other teams' faces.

I was also surprised to see AJ mixing it up, because he looks so scrawny. LOL at your "you gotta kill him to stop him."

Good stuff.

I can't wait to finally see my boys play so I can really weigh in on this discussion. Until then, I will just have store all this info I'm receiving from my fellow Pistons brethren and reserve my real opinions until I can see the future champs play for myself. Come on NBA League Pass package, hook a brotha up with some preseason games! ..and why aren't there any Pistons preseason games on NBATV?

A brotha is about to have a nervous breakdown over here. :)

Listened to the game on the radio. I don't have digital cable where I live so I can't get NBA League Pass. Anyway, it sounded as if the three ball could be a big part of the offense this season if things continue the way they are. They shot 12 last night. I'm wondering if the offense should mix it up a little to keep the defense honest. If the Pistons completely abandon the post-up game, I think it's a mistake. Hopefully, Flip will look at the matchups from game to game and tailor an effective offense.

shooting 12 3's is mixing it up to keep the defense honest. last year we didn't shoot the 3 so teams were able to pack it in on us. this year we can shoot the 3 and extend the defense. this year we probably won't have a traditional post up game. but we are getting great low post positions of movement. darko didn't shoot outside the paint. we never had a post up game anyway. why do people keep talking about abandoning the post and we never had a post up oriented offense anyway.

Carlos Arroyo......not really bad, but not really good either, he's doing a POOR job of orchestrating this offense. Last night he shot really well, but he still has a tendency to dominate the ball during the shot clock leaving only one option to be ran on offense. LB harped on Arroyo wanting to make THE play, when alot of times it's very effective to make the pass that leads to the assist. He just doesn't seem to get it. Start the offense early and give the ball up, cut through, set pick, flash and get it back. In Flips offense their is alot of player movement that is dependent on ball movement also.


i know this sounds crazy but i think the dos los backcourt will maybe switch roles offensively this season. delfino will rack up the assists and arroyo will start scoring. i like arroyo in the pick and roll though. flip should run different sets when arroyo is at the point. that chemistry with mcdyess simply can't be denied.


Darko could have had 15 rebs if he'll start going after the ball with a vengeance the way, Ben, J-Max and MoEvans do. Sometimes he reaches instead of grabbing. But I'm confident that it'll come in time.


yes. i agree darko could have had more boards than he had. i think one time i even saw flip saunders motioning with his hands for darko to use 2 hands to get the rebound. but i am still happy with the rebounding improvement darko is showing. darko is very talented but when he really realizes that he is bigger and stronger than pretty much everybody he goes up against he's going to be a beast.



Delfino can't shoot.......sorry guys. Hope he turns it around, but dude is a brick layer under Union Contract, real good slasher though, but he can't shoot free throws either?!?!?!?!?:doh:


i think delfino can shoot. i think he's more of a volume shooter or a streak shooter. needs plenty of shots to get his shot going. he does have range though and his shot will come around.

Listened to the game on the radio. I don't have digital cable where I live so I can't get NBA League Pass.

Ever think about Price comparing DirecTV (works anywhere) vs your cable package?... it might be a better deal... with more sports channels... just a thought.

last year we didn't shoot the 3 so teams were able to pack it in on us.
You are basing that on perception, not on reality. We took more 3s in 2005 than we did in 2004. That's fact.

In 2004, we shot 11.8 treys per game for 26th in the league.
In 2005, we shot 12.8 treys per game for 22nd in the league.

12 three pointers is just average for this team. Nothing to make a big deal about.

You are basing that on perception, not on reality. We took more 3s in 2005 than we did in 2004. That's fact.

In 2004, we shot 11.8 treys per game for 26th in the league.
In 2005, we shot 12.8 treys per game for 22nd in the league.

12 three pointers is just average for this team. Nothing to make a big deal about.

last year look at when we shot threes. late in the shot clock or when we were down in games. or when sheed was just jacking them up.

last game chauncey shot a 3 3 pointers in a row and 1 was on a fast break. it was in the 3rd quarter too. the difference this year is that teams will have to check the 3 the whole game. we will also probably increase our 3 points attempted this year.

another interesting point for this game, chauncey was 4/6 on 3-pointers and the rest of the team was 0/6 :)

shooting 12 3's is mixing it up to keep the defense honest. last year we didn't shoot the 3 so teams were able to pack it in on us. this year we can shoot the 3 and extend the defense. this year we probably won't have a traditional post up game. but we are getting great low post positions of movement. darko didn't shoot outside the paint. we never had a post up game anyway. why do people keep talking about abandoning the post and we never had a post up oriented offense anyway.

People keep talking about it, bballjay, because they would like to see more of it. I don't mind the 3's, but I think there needs to be a mix. As long as the Pistons score in the low post, I'm happy. From your post, it sounds as if they're doing it. But I expect C-Note's three-point shots to go up significantly. If he picks his spots, fine. If he doesn't and starts relying on it too much, not fine.

The most comforting thing to me was the way our second unit completely reversed a lousy 1st half performance with a strong 2nd half. That kind of thing really builds trust from the coaching standpoint. I particularly liked the way that unit produced good shooting opportunities for Dice.

Whoever called Acker "SMOOTH" during the summer league, hit the nail on the head. He seemed quite unflappable when pressured.

People keep talking about it, bballjay, because they would like to see more of it. I don't mind the 3's, but I think there needs to be a mix. As long as the Pistons score in the low post, I'm happy. From your post, it sounds as if they're doing it. But I expect C-Note's three-point shots to go up significantly. If he picks his spots, fine. If he doesn't and starts relying on it too much, not fine.

as long as he's shooting 4-6 from 3 point land i would love for him to increase his amount of attempts. i don't think he would ever rely on it. the 3's he shot were basically wide open kick outs. he never really had to create to get a 3 off. if chauncey is wide open at the 3 point line i say let it fly.

the post ups won't be a problem this year. i think we will be in the post more often than last year. the bigs are all great passers. there seems to be a high low option in the offense that the bigs were working on yesterday. also there is a play where sheed throws an oop to ben. this year we will definitely be in the paint and getting fouled more because our movement in the paint is usually towards the basket. the bigs are not going to a specific spot and then fighting for position.

as long as he's shooting 4-6 from 3 point land i would love for him to increase his amount of attempts. i don't think he would ever rely on it. the 3's he shot were basically wide open kick outs. he never really had to create to get a 3 off. if chauncey is wide open at the 3 point line i say let it fly.

the post ups won't be a problem this year. i think we will be in the post more often than last year. the bigs are all great passers. there seems to be a high low option in the offense that the bigs were working on yesterday. also there is a play where sheed throws an oop to ben. this year we will definitely be in the paint and getting fouled more because our movement in the paint is usually towards the basket. the bigs are not going to a specific spot and then fighting for position.


That all sounds good to me. I don't have a problem with C-Note taking some three's if they're open. Tay, too. He was deadly at UK. I'm always yelling at C-Note to take more of them in the fourth quarter. And you're right, we have some good passing big men. If they can break down the D in the post with some good passes (especially against slow-footed 'Zo and Snaq), I'll be a happy Pistons fan. Throwing some postups in there will be great if the mismatch is there.

I'm always yelling at C-Note to take more of them in the fourth quarter.

Gazoo----->:director: :hand:<---------- Billups

I would like for him to get fewer fouls but I can readily see why he is getting them at this point. He has been blamed for playing without passion and is trying to get more aggressive. And you probably remember that Chauncey said the other day that with Darko coming off the bench, he should be playing that way and "not worry about fouls".

I think he will not only get more knowlegable about when to be more aggressive and when not to, but also, he will begin to get some of the respect that other players get.

Interesting question, too, will Shaq be able to guard Darko. I guess it depends on how they call it when Shaq is not guarding Darko because he can't keep up with him. Kind of like Rip. You have to stay with them to be guarding them, unless the officials let you get away with it.:thumb:

last year look at when we shot threes. late in the shot clock or when we were down in games. or when sheed was just jacking them up.

last game chauncey shot a 3 3 pointers in a row and 1 was on a fast break. it was in the 3rd quarter too. the difference this year is that teams will have to check the 3 the whole game. we will also probably increase our 3 points attempted this year.

We probably have one of the better 3 point shooting teams. Chauncey is one of the best especially in tight games, Sheed is one of the best 3 point shooting big men, Tay can step out and hit that 3, Rip is getting a lot better. Ben not so much, but he can hit them in practice (saw a pistons practice on nba tv).

Whoever called Acker "SMOOTH" during the summer league, hit the nail on the head. He seemed quite unflappable when pressured.

If I remember right, it was Mercury in the "Training Camp Sneaking up on us" thread on 09-02-2005, 04:03 PM.

Absolutely. That little Chauncey sequence in the third quarter shows the differences in philosophy between Flip and Larry. No way Larry would have let chauncey do that--maybe one three and then we would set it up. And we wouldn't have scored 9 points last year--no way. There will be times where Chauncey and others miss, but we have that open look in our repertoire. Teams are really going to have to guard us this year and not just pack it down like Indiana did. They have to fear Chauncey every q uarter or the game. We can deliver knock out blows at times with our offense. I also like Ben on those slants to the basket as they throw the ball in to him. That is where Ben is tough offensively.

The downside of Chauncey's 3-point barrage came after the 12-0 run. The Pistons began jacking up long shots without much in the post and the Bucks came back a little. That'll be a temptation throughout the season, I think.

One note of caution: We'll start missing Lindsey soon. Watching Mo Williams and Charlie Bell go off big-time after that pretty run brought home the fact that we don't have other guys who can shut down dribble penetration. That'll hurt us in a wide-open game of trading Js.

One note of caution: We'll start missing Lindsey soon. Watching Mo Williams and Charlie Bell go off big-time after that pretty run brought home the fact that we don't have other guys who can shut down dribble penetration. That'll hurt us in a wide-open game of trading Js.

I doubt we miss Hunter. Once Flip gets a few of his ZONES installed we should be able to cut down on penetration. I know that I won't miss Hunter's ugly Jumper and inability to run the offense.

You guys will never be happy with CarArr.
Concentrate on his effectiveness. What does the game call for?
LB brought him in here to dish. So you thought he was a scoring weakness. When he went for the kill, a pass to Rip or Dyess early in the clock, you say he isn't moving the ball around enough. When he makes the extra pass you say he's T.O. prone or missed the open man. If he takes it to the hole he's selfish. As a backup One, he should hold a lead until the starters are ready. If we have a lead burn some clock- dribble.
... The Tre is an intregal part of the game. When it works for either team it will beat you, simple math. With hot shooters you must milk it. 45% or better... Lights Out!

The Tre is an intregal part of the game. When it works for either team it will beat you, simple math. With hot shooters you must milk it. 45% or better... Lights Out!
More simple math.

How many 45% 3 point shooters are on this squad? In fact, how many 40%+ 3 point shooters do we have?

The answer to question # 1 is ZERO.

The answer to question # 2 is ONE.

And that one 40% shooter only hit that % one time. Chauncey Billups last year (42.6%). For his career he is a 38% 3 point shooter.

The problem is not taking more threes. The problem is team field goal shooting % as a whole. We don't have great gunners, and we don't have a 20PPG post man. Incidentally, you will find most teams that have one also have the other. Phoenix, Miami, San Antonio.

Teams that live and die by the 3 without a post game to create spacing generally end up spending a lot of time on the greens during the month of June.

The trey is sexy, but it is not indicative of a high powered offense. Since the NBA added the three pointer, scoring has gone down as attempts went up. And they know it.

You guys will never be happy with CarArr.
Concentrate on his effectiveness. What does the game call for?
LB brought him in here to dish. So you thought he was a scoring weakness. When he went for the kill, a pass to Rip or Dyess early in the clock, you say he isn't moving the ball around enough. When he makes the extra pass you say he's T.O. prone or missed the open man. If he takes it to the hole he's selfish. As a backup One, he should hold a lead until the starters are ready. If we have a lead burn some clock- dribble.
... The Tre is an intregal part of the game. When it works for either team it will beat you, simple math. With hot shooters you must milk it. 45% or better... Lights Out!

Barely anyone shoots 45% from 3 consistently, and why would you want a hard 3 when you can get easier 2 point baskets where people actually do consistently shoot 45% or better.

Micro and Himat, a hard three or semi-contested three is not better than a two. But an open--look three is one of the best shots in basketball. What Chauncey had was open-look threes. Those are good percentage shots for him. More important, I bet our percentages are better with him taking those looks than when we set up and get whatever we get. Our half-court offense is not high powered and we don't have a good post game as Micro and others have pointed out. It makes no sense to pass up a free look three only to set it up for a tough- to medium two. What you don't want to do is consistently put up shots early in the clock as that throws an offense off-kilter. But the league needs to know that you have to guard the Pistons for all 24 seconds.

What Chauncey had was open-look threes. Those are good percentage shots for him.
I agree about that. Chauncey is deadly on open spot up threes.

More important, I bet our percentages are better with him taking those looks than when we set up and get whatever we get.
I dunno. You would have to factor in whether the missed 3s were turned into fast break opportunities via the long rebound. Perhaps.

Our half-court offense is not high powered and we don't have a good post game as Micro and others have pointed out.
Agree and agree. But you need that "paint" game to get those open 3s.

It makes no sense to pass up a free look three only to set it up for a tough- to medium two.
True, but the occasional dividend of a tough to medium two is drawing a foul. You aren't going to get many fouls on wide open 3s. If you miss the 40% shot, you have to pray for an offensive board or it's a wasted possession.

What you don't want to do is consistently put up shots early in the clock as that throws an offense off-kilter. But the league needs to know that you have to guard the Pistons for all 24 seconds.
I'll disagree with that. Let them sleep on us late in the clock. In all seriousness, I get your point. I just watched CB and later Troy Hudson/Sczerbiak in Minny and it looked like chucking without conscience at times. That is something I do not want to see.

Western Conference up/down ball doesn't play well in the East. This has always been the lower scoring, tough guy, slug it out conference. Draw the foul, pound the rock. Then pass out for the open 3. Chicago, Indy, even Miami (except Udonis Haslem will leave Sheed) won't play soft perimeter "D" like Phoenix, Denver, etc. There will be no "boys" between us and the Finals. Just men.

Micro and Himat, a hard three or semi-contested three is not better than a two. But an open--look three is one of the best shots in basketball. What Chauncey had was open-look threes. Those are good percentage shots for him. More important, I bet our percentages are better with him taking those looks than when we set up and get whatever we get. Our half-court offense is not high powered and we don't have a good post game as Micro and others have pointed out. It makes no sense to pass up a free look three only to set it up for a tough- to medium two. What you don't want to do is consistently put up shots early in the clock as that throws an offense off-kilter. But the league needs to know that you have to guard the Pistons for all 24 seconds.

What drives a lot of folks crazy, including myself. Is when Chauncey comes down on a fast break, pulls up at the three-point line and launches with no other Pistons in the vicinity to get a possible rebound.

That is a bad shot that he often takes, he even did in last night's game. Even though he made it, it was still a bad shot.

What drives a lot of folks crazy, including myself. Is when Chauncey comes down on a fast break, pulls up at the three-point line and launches with no other Pistons in the vicinity to get a possible rebound.

That is a bad shot that he often takes, he even did in last night's game. Even though he made it, it was still a bad shot.

I always see him do that and he always makes it. But yes its a bad shot.
Also I was not saying to give up open 3's I was saying you should make more plays to get the ball inside rather than thrwing up 25 footers all day. Chauncey is a great 3 point shooter, but thats just not our team. Heck I bet you Chauncey is better at getting inside than shooting 3's he's one of the strongest pointgaurds so he'll just manhandle his defender unless they double team him. If he gets fouled he has great upperbody strength and he can still make the shot for a 3 pointplay too.

Remember that night JD went ten for ten from the tre? It was like the first time that had been done. We won. It's clear most of you see Bup-Bup as a monster player, that's why he deserves the Max Out Contract.
He can do every thing. I say we let 'Note shoot 50 Tres. I bet he hits 25. And we'd win. 75 points right there. :nod:

Let's assume a game where each side has 80 touches.
at 50% 2s they would score 80 points plus 10 more from FTs or 90 pts.
... The other team shoots 50% 2s (70) for 70 pts. plus 9 FTs for 9 pts. or 79, plus .333% {the low stantard} on 10 Tres. for a total of 89.99 points-Loser.
... At 40% (good) .4 x 10 = 4 x 3 = 12., 79 + 12 = 91 or WINNER, WINNER, WINNER!
Did someone say C'Bill is a 42.xxx Tre Shooter. :nod: