Detroit @ Sacramento Nov 8 10:30PM

This ones still listed for ESPN as well as FSN locally.

I'd like to see Brahma matched up with Artest.

I'd like to see Brahma matched up with Artest.
that would be sweeet!

In a well oiled Pistons machine this would be a romp by Detroit, but the wind of changes of the NBA will put dirt in the Pistons engine.

I'm sorry guys I'm really for the first time down on this league and it will take a toll on these Pistons. I feel real bad about this Pistons chances of getting a win on this west coast trip. going 0-4 would hurt for the short but in the long run this team will be fine.

The Pistons as a whole fought hard last night, but the short leash on Sheed will be there short coming.

Sacto is hurting with the lost of Miller, but this team just like Utah will be up for this game and when that happens team all of the sudden start shooting a very high % vs the Pistons. This will be a close game (when it should be a rout by Detroit) like the Utah battle I think they will come up short on hot shooting by Bibby and Artest.
Sacto 98 Pistons 95

I HOPE FEELING I"M WRONG!!!!!!

I'd like to see Brahma matched up with Artest.

I'd love to see that!

I'm sure Arsetest would back down again like he did against Ben. Then, once he was safe and sound behind a wall of players from both teams, he'd act like he was the man.

I think it's about time CB start to get hot and shoot better. He better be......

Chauncey is tired, man. He played 8 pre-season game for the love of pete!

This is cool. I'll be able to watch the game and chat with you all. looking forward to it.

Chauncey is tired, man. He played 8 pre-season game for the love of pete!
lmao! :pound:

Chauncey is tired, man. He played 8 pre-season game for the love of pete!

And need I point out that it was eight games in a row too?

What's with everyone changing their names?... it's getting hard to follow.

What's with everyone changing their names?... it's getting hard to follow.

It's a fad like wearing addidas with no shoe strings in em', the pet rock and the invisible dog walker. Look closely...each name is a derivative of the originial with a Star Wars Twist.

Chauncey is tired, man. He played 8 pre-season game for the love of pete!

Yeah, but you'll never hear that from CB. He doesn't make excuses.

It's a fad like wearing addidas with no shoe strings in em', the pet rock and the invisible dog walker. Look closely...each name is a derivative of the originial with a Star Wars Twist.

...They said Black people were a fad once upon a time.....

You guys quit worrying about Chauncey. If we go 0-4 he won't take it that hard.

i believe tayshaun had one of his best games of his career last year in sactown. hopefully he can repeat that. sheed should get whatever he wants if he feels like it. they have no answer for bigs as bogut and charlie v demonstrated against the kings last week (a game i managed to see)

pistons should win this comfortably.

I'd like to see Tay involved in more PLAYS not only isos he can create points on jumpers, off the dribble, and he can create for others. Hope the double-double Sheed will be in Sactown as well.

i believe tayshaun had one of his best games of his career last year in sactown. hopefully he can repeat that. sheed should get whatever he wants if he feels like it. they have no answer for bigs as bogut and charlie v demonstrated against the kings last week (a game i managed to see)

pistons should win this comfortably.

With Brad Miller out, they are starting Sharif Abdul Rahim at center who is averaging about 5.5 boards a game so far. Tay and Sheed just have to keep Artest and Kenny Thomas in check as they are grabbing 9 and 8 boards a game respectively. Sheed should get off as long as he mixes up his reportoire and wears a mask and muzzle to hide his gestures and mouth. You know the sactown fans will bait him...:tape:

i believe tayshaun had one of his best games of his career last year in sactown. hopefully he can repeat that.
He won't do that against Ronnie

RONNNNNNNNNIE!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/do-ron-ron-da-do-ron-ron_110806.jpg

Chat is open. See y'all in 10 minutes or so...

Another terrible first quarter for the offense. This is starting to be systemic going back to last year and a real problem.

Maxiell changed the flow of the game in the 2nd. This guy should have played at Utah and we would have won.

JMax should play 20 mins/game. The first 5 minutes of each quarter. And we should go to him every time down the floor until the bonus. He is a master of drawing the foul.

I saw that they actually keep the fouls drawn stat in the Euroleague. Maxiell would certainly lead the NBA in fouls drawn per time unit.

End of the third, another disjointed effort both offensively and defensively. We made their guard look like an all-star. It is early in the season but this Piston team has too much talent for this kind of play. Dyss looks slow under the basket...

Tayshaun total no show.

4 points on 2-10, 3 rebs, 0 steals, 0 blocks.

Delfino should be getting more minutes.

Delfino and Maxiel both should be getting minutes. The team looked lost tonight. Disjointed is the word that comes to mind...Is this a trend or just early season blahs...???

I don't know why Flip didn't go to the bench earlier and give them more minutes since most of the starters didn't do anything. Maxiell really gave them some energy when he went in with Delfino and I think it was Murray. Flip should have played the bench more especially with Tay and Rasheed's poor performance. Rasheed had 0 points!

So far this season, when Sheed scores 0 points, we lose. That should be easy to correct.

86-99 read it and weep. Pistons drop to 2-3.

Only get 8 points out of the entire starting front line. A wopping 2 points out of Sheed/Mohammed but Sheed did grap 15 boards. Chauncy lead the team with 25 points but I guess he decided that was enough once we got into the 4th quarter. Murry lead the bench brigade with 13 points and Maxiel scored 8 in short mins going a perfect 4-4.

For Sac it was all about Martin with 30 points, Bibby with 23 points ( playing hurt ) and an unexpected lift off the bench from Corliss with 15 points and a lot of hustle that always seemed to come just when they needed it.

Sac won the board war 50-35 lead by Kenny Thomas who had 15.

Pistons have to stop digging themselfs in a hole to start each game. Can't keep going down double digits mid-way through the 1st and expect to pull out these road games.

The Pistons started off the night in a funk, tied them at halftime, went ahead by five only to play the long ball for the balance of the third quarter and lose going away....

Got outrebounded a bunch because Flip went with Dice who managed 4 points and 1 rebound. Brahma was 4-4 shooting but only played 10 minutes. Naz was a no show as Flip had him nailed to the bench too. We can always blame this on the players for taking to many ill advised shots from the perimeter, but why didn't Flip just yank the staters and put in the bench?? In additon to MAX 4-4, Murray hit his last five shots, but our front court of Dice, Tay, and Wallace go a combined 5-26 shooting and 19 rebounds with 15 of those grabbed by Sheed.

If Flip comes back from this trip with no wins, he deserves to be fired:gun1: All of these games were winnable even without nameless Ben!!

Too many 3 attempts when they were still in the game. I can appreciate the two treys that Delfino made, but can you check to see if there is an open man in or near the paint and feed him before tossing up a unconsious three@##$

The defense on Kevin Martin was horrible as the Pistons appeared that they had never seen him before constantly leaving him open for some uncontested jumpers...

There was an Alternatorz sighting as both Jon Barry and Corliss were in the building, but unfortunately for the Pistons one was burning them on the Mic and the other was burning them to the tune of 15 points in the paint, clearly out playing Dice. The sight of Joe Dumars sitting there must have got McNasty inspired..."take that Joe":ner-ner:

Dre, I agree, this was an inexcusable effort even for so early in the season. And it is more than just the players...The ship needs to be corrected in a hurry...

That' what happens when your frontline produces like that. Flip needs to trust the bench even in crunch time if they're doing better.

The reality is that we have no real front line depth.

Why is Dale Davis not playing? This hamstring injury is starting to become a mortal wound.

We're not a very good team right now.

I'm very happy with this poor start. No MVP Talk, no records to chase, no talk of All-Star selections.

Just sweat and fear. The way it should be.

Now we can watch the team improve and charge hard into the playoffs. That to me is excitement.

I've only seen 2 or 3 games so far, but the Pistons do not seem to be playing with any inspiration.

Maybe it's zero tolerance, or maybe as Dice said, Ben was the leader by example on this team.

Someone will have to step up.

Man, I was so hyped for this game but what a let down. I felt like I was watching the over 40 league. The way we kept passing about the perimeter and taking jump shots, i thought we were allergic to the paint.

the team, IMO lacks synergy. When we have movement, we are playing a decidedly midrange game. When we attack the basket its super predictable and people tend to stand around.

For all this talk about a massive playbook, I think we're pretty well scouted. and WHAT IS our defensive philosophy?

Sorry for sounding so negative but I really had higher expectations.

what was more annoying than anything about this game is that we didn't show up. at least for utah i thought we showed up and got jobbed by the refs. but this was our laziest game of the year, and it's not like it was a back-to-back.

i was also annoyed at flip playing so much small ball. yes our big men were somewhat ineffective, and he did try a big lineup at one point (with delfino at the 2 spot), but he said he was going to force teams to match up with us this year and not the other way around. well, we played small ball, and that's exactly what sacramento is good at.

after chauncey hit his 4th three-pointer and we were on a roll, a timeout was called, and i got worried. last year when we were draining 3s, we got LAZY and stopped running our offense. coming back from the timeout, that's exactly what happened. chauncey dribbling at the top of the key for 12 seconds, one pass, and one shot. it was stupid, and apparently contagious. two of delfino's five 3-ppoint attempts were terrible.

i really see joe d. looking at front-court changes if this inconsistency continues. but either way, this was a terrible effort and annoying to watch. you knew by the start of the 4th that we weren't winning this game.

at least maxiell had 2 ridiculously sweet jams that were well-recognized by the ESPN crew, and apparently he's getting love elsewhere: bill simmons: ESPN.com: Page 2 : Sorting out Week 1 in the NBA (http://199.181.132.141/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/061108) - maxiell is listed as one of his 5 favorite bench players. but my favorite part is his d-miles all-star team (for players who never reach their potential), and darko is on the BENCH even in that one!! hahaha

I'm very happy with this poor start. No MVP Talk, no records to chase, no talk of All-Star selections.

Just sweat and fear. The way it should be.

Now we can watch the team improve and charge hard into the playoffs. That to me is excitement.

I've only seen 2 or 3 games so far, but the Pistons do not seem to be playing with any inspiration.

Maybe it's zero tolerance, or maybe as Dice said, Ben was the leader by example on this team.

Someone will have to step up.

ROscoe this is the exact feeling Pistons fans have to have, this team will not be in form for a while they look like the 2004 team before Sheed arrived. we will see what happens.

Like I said my feeling on this road trip is that they will be lucky to get one win the balance of this team is off and the D is non-factor. I still hold the fact that this team will pull it together but it may get worse before it get better. GO PISTONS!!!!!!

There's a predictable trend going on. The other team's perimeter player break down our guys to get inside... inside help is sometimes there... if it is they simply dish it for the layup.
Since our perimeter guys can't stop pentration they resort to hacking.
Transition defense is also bad.
Why Sheed couldn't dominate 6'7" Kenny Thomas & Ronnie is a mystery.... the roller coaster continues.

Statistically speaking, we should get torched by both Mo EVans and and Smush in the laker game friday.

oops, forgot to add that artest abused tayshaun.

A lot being said about our poor offense and shooting. How about the fact that we gave up a 60 point second half to our opponent? Our offense isn't good enough to overcome that on a regular basis.

We started the game slowly (again), but recovered and had it tied at halftime. Then we come out and give up 32 and 28 in the third and fourth quarters? We can't win like that.

Is our defense really this bad? Does Saunders (and McCosky) really think that we'll be okay if we just hit a few more shots?

My concern is that this type of play (lack of offense (turnovers with poor shooting) followed by spotty defense goes back to last year's playoffs. Sometimes we even have trouble making the initial entry pass. Normally, early season games are a joke--not to get too worked up about one way or the other.

Another concern is the team's lack of direction. They looked lost out there at times. Disinterested is one thing but lost is another. There is too much experience and talent on this team for such play to continue for too long.

A third concern is that our players often seem to not have defined roles especially tay and sheed on the offense.

Finally, when I see a player do the same thing over and over against us and we don't seem to make an adjustment, I do start to wonder...

A lot being said about our poor offense and shooting. How about the fact that we gave up a 60 point second half to our opponent? Our offense isn't good enough to overcome that on a regular basis.

We started the game slowly (again), but recovered and had it tied at halftime. Then we come out and give up 32 and 28 in the third and fourth quarters? We can't win like that.

Is our defense really this bad? Does Saunders (and McCosky) really think that we'll be okay if we just hit a few more shots?


Yes, I really believe that Flip is that stupid, he thinks you can OUTSCORE everyone. Well, perimeter based teams don't win CONSISTENTLY or in the playoffs. Our best postup player (Maxiel) is struggling to get minutes DESPITE GREAT PLAY and NUMBERS. Why does Dice "deserve" minutes? Is Dice earning them? Definately NOT OVER MAXIEL if you go by the numbers. I'm so sick of Flip's offensive philosophy and his lack of defensive gameplanning. (does he have a defensive gameplan?)

The only way this team gets better is WITHOUT Flip at the helm.

Why does Dice "deserve" minutes? Is Dice earning them? Definately NOT OVER MAXIEL if you go by the numbers.


Unless you go by +/- numbers, which show that Dyess is the most valuable player on the team through 5 games. JMax is 2nd. They are both playing well.

I think the "Big Nasty" is still mad at us for dumping him.

Corliss was one of my favorites. I couldn't believe we let him go.

Two things that caught my attention and maybe some people can elaborate or clarify this for me. Delfino on the ball is pretty solid. On denying...pretty good. Spacing and decision making on switching...brutal. At least two times in a screen roll type situation he left the lane open to a driving opponent to cover the other guy. It left a huge hole that led to easy buckets or an and 1 situation. So what is it? His team defense basically sucks? Or is it a lack of defensive drilling?

The other thing was late in the game Tayshaun backing down into the basket on the low block. 2 times he draws 3 defenders...nobody cuts and nobody is even in a clear passing lane. He gets blocked twice and bricks once. I don't understand that series. tay backs down with 4 guys on the perimeter. 3 defenders collapse...nobody moves, tay gets blocked. Next time they do it again. You can see the 3 sac defenders cheating on Tay from his first dribble. They know what is coming. The spacing made it essentially 1 on 4 and we got the short end. Is this part of the playbook? It sucks! There were no passing lanes even if he could pass it out of the triple team. Why did we go to it again and again?

I said I d withhold judgement until Game 10, so I'll only be 'half-brutal' as I would be....
1. We have 4 players that are too damn cocky 'still'! Tay, CB, Rip and Sheed. There is too much standing around, no diving , no penetration, no power. Sheed took 9 jumpers for Petes sake.

2. Sheed must go. I am tired of his walking timebomb act. I cant believe we sacrificed Mike James and Memo for his contract. For Ben (who we dont have) Sheed (who is a no show) and Tay ( who has a soft bum) we gave up Wade, Bosh or Anthony; Nasty, Memo, James and Darko; and the abilityn to trade for a KG if we kept some guys and traded others.
I mean does anyone still think IN THE LONG RUN, that Tay will have a better career than Melo or Bosh? That Darko and Memo could be better than Sheed? Signing Mo Evans or Dyess when we could have kept Nasty and /or James...?

3. Nothing I hate more than lack of execution and desire to hustle. We have one guy playing HARD...J_Max!!!Everyone else is in slow motion.What the hell is wrong with Dyess? And I TOLD YALL BOUT FLIP II!!This is a .500 team now cause even if we go 34-7 at home ,I only see us as a 15-26 team on the road,,,I guess thATS49-33, huh?

4. I hate the Flips!

I feeeeeelllll the FIRE!!!
:flame:

Sheed took 9 jumpers for Petes sake.

Sheeds shot chart
ESPN.com - NBA - 261108023 - Detroit at Sacramento (261108023) (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=261108023)

It isnt like he took all 3 pointers all night. I just dont see how Flip lets him not score at all. Run an oop for him or something keep him interested in the game. I get that he is picking up his rebounding to make up for the loss of Ben but I want the Sheed who calls glass and laughs at the other team cuz he is abusing them rather than this one! Hell get 8 boards and drop 18 points and we win by 5.

I liked what Sheed has been doing besides the first game. Yesterday the whole front line played bad. At least Sheed got boards. So far Sheed has been averaging a double double, and I expect his scoring to go up.

Sheeds shot chart
ESPN.com - NBA - 261108023 - Detroit at Sacramento (261108023) (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=261108023)

It isnt like he took all 3 pointers all night. I just dont see how Flip lets him not score at all. Run an oop for him or something keep him interested in the game. I get that he is picking up his rebounding to make up for the loss of Ben but I want the Sheed who calls glass and laughs at the other team cuz he is abusing them rather than this one! Hell get 8 boards and drop 18 points and we win by 5.

He dropped 25 and 12 on Utah. He's going to do good. The Pistons just sucked last night, and it needs to end. They are not trying hard and that is what is irritating. If a guy loses even though he gives it everything he's got then it's not a big deal.

Two things that caught my attention and maybe some people can elaborate or clarify this for me. Delfino on the ball is pretty solid. On denying...pretty good. Spacing and decision making on switching...brutal. At least two times in a screen roll type situation he left the lane open to a driving opponent to cover the other guy. It left a huge hole that led to easy buckets or an and 1 situation. So what is it? His team defense basically sucks? Or is it a lack of defensive drilling?

The other thing was late in the game Tayshaun backing down into the basket on the low block. 2 times he draws 3 defenders...nobody cuts and nobody is even in a clear passing lane. He gets blocked twice and bricks once. I don't understand that series. tay backs down with 4 guys on the perimeter. 3 defenders collapse...nobody moves, tay gets blocked. Next time they do it again. You can see the 3 sac defenders cheating on Tay from his first dribble. They know what is coming. The spacing made it essentially 1 on 4 and we got the short end. Is this part of the playbook? It sucks! There were no passing lanes even if he could pass it out of the triple team. Why did we go to it again and again?

He made one mistake. The other time was miscommunication. Go check your tape. Compared to most players, Delfino is a saint on defensive rotations. Every player makes mistakes though.

. We have 4 players that are too damn cocky 'still'! Tay, CB, Rip and Sheed. There is too much standing around, no diving , no penetration, no power. Sheed took 9 jumpers for Petes sake.

2. Sheed must go. I am tired of his walking timebomb act. I cant believe we sacrificed Mike James and Memo for his contract. For Ben (who we dont have) Sheed (who is a no show) and Tay ( who has a soft bum) we gave up Wade, Bosh or Anthony; Nasty, Memo, James and Darko; and the abilityn to trade for a KG if we kept some guys and traded others.
I mean does anyone still think IN THE LONG RUN, that Tay will have a better career than Melo or Bosh? That Darko and Memo could be better than Sheed? Signing Mo Evans or Dyess when we could have kept Nasty and /or James...?


DQ, although I am not ready to thrown in the towel yet on Sheed yet, your other comments were something that we tossed around 3 years ago before and during that championship run and everyone discounted them. If anybody thinks now that Tay will be better than Melo or Bosh, then they must be a relative or close family friend. He has not improved and is still as passive as he was during the 04-05 season. Agree that hindsight is 20-20, but those reserves of Memo, Mike J and McNasty was probably the best thing that we had in getting that ring that we have come up short the last two seasons. I know MJ wanted more money and PT, but I am wondering if keeping Corliss and memo would have been a better deal ring wise then sticking with Sheed who may have peeked during that chanpionship season!! Just a thought....:sssh:

Luke on Tay:

The coach told the players to take it down low--a last desperate move to win the game. Sac was ready for Tay and blocked the shot. If he does it at another time in the game, he gets an easy look. If he does it as part of our core offense with cutters, etc. as you say, it creates open looks.

As I pointed out above, Tay has no real defined role in the offense. Neither does Sheed. The players are only at fault up to a point...

We use Sheed all over the court. That is what I feel is bringing about such offensive inconsistency. We need to define his offensive role--like you will be getting the ball here or here or maybe there.

I think what we are seeing is a weak offensive scheme combined with a lack of focus on defense with the team's direction. Flip's strength was supposed to be his offense versus Larry.

Larry was a dinosaur in his offensive philosophy but at least he was consistent. He would pound the ball in, over and over. It worked most of the time. Can you imagine what Larry would be doing with Maxiel??

I always thought Larry should have coached Shaq.

I think what we are seeing is a weak offensive scheme combined with a lack of focus on defense with the team's direction. Flip's strength was supposed to be his offense versus Larry.
It does seem like for the first time since at least before Carlisle, that the team doesn't really know who it is or have a specific approach.

I know it is early but considering the amount of coaching experience on this bench, one would think the team would show more structure and discipline.

Two things that caught my attention and maybe some people can elaborate or clarify this for me. Delfino on the ball is pretty solid. On denying...pretty good. Spacing and decision making on switching...brutal. At least two times in a screen roll type situation he left the lane open to a driving opponent to cover the other guy. It left a huge hole that led to easy buckets or an and 1 situation. So what is it? His team defense basically sucks? Or is it a lack of defensive drilling?
I don't think he has had the opportunity to play in any kind of consistent system.

He made some really bizarre mistakes in this game. That one where he left his man as the shooter came baseline was super weird.

His man defense is good but Flip don't play that.

Delf's been impressive so far. Not good enough to start, but certainly no longer a bum.

I was asking since both seemed bizarre.