Figured this would come up anyways so might as well visit this game.

This game may have some importance... I'm sure someaya caught this one while waiting for the Piston's game
first thing first... Darko was the player of the game... 15 pts... looked good down low yada yada.
he did a gr8 job on KG... Garnett had a hard time with Darko... why they are using KG as a center is a cryin' shame... his knees will not hold up for long doing this... but DMC's size and quickness kept KG in check (they were matched up a lot tonight.... KG had a solid game when matched up against anyone else.

Gotta state the obvious... Howard was a dominant force once again... comparing DMC to him is rediculous.

For the Twolves to lose at home to the Magic without G Hill (they're now 2-4) has to be grinding on KG.... I'm thinking the patience meter is running low.

Hi, Merc, DMC was only the 'sub' of the game, not the 'player'. That had to be Dwight but only slightly over Jameer. Trevor Ariza was in only his second game of the year, coming off injuries all during camp.

They have such a deep club and it is going to get better during the season. I really think of them as very much like the Pistons of a number of years ago. By that, I mean, someone new is continually coming up with a great game to give a spark, mostly off the bench.

But they are still spotty, of course.

I still think it is fun following two teams. Like tonight, when the Pistons had a bad game, the Magic had a good one. Another night, it will be reversed. Like having silver linings for most of the black clouds.

darko is ahead of d. howard defensively in my opinion. people just have trouble scoring on him and when he gets respect from the refs it's going to be all over for the league. he's also more versatile offensively. his coach just doesn't use him like that. i think he is sandbagging though. the d.howard darko frontline will be unleashed at about midseason.

i think darko needs more minutes in my opinion. he will continue to improve as he plays more and more. he's basically playing about his 40th game of nba experience.

darko is ahead of d. howard defensively in my opinion. people just have trouble scoring on him and when he gets respect from the refs it's going to be all over for the league. he's also more versatile offensively. his coach just doesn't use him like that. i think he is sandbagging though. the d.howard darko frontline will be unleashed at about midseason.

i think darko needs more minutes in my opinion. he will continue to improve as he plays more and more. he's basically playing about his 40th game of nba experience.

Sandbagging? To serve what purpose? That doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. I won't even address the Darko better than D. Howard comment. Did you forget what happened when they went after eachother in practice head to head? Or was that sandbagging too?

Oh no please not the sanbagging again... everone wants to sandbag in their contract year.... okey dokey then.

Sandbagging? To serve what purpose? That doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. I won't even address the Darko better than D. Howard comment. Did you forget what happened when they went after eachother in practice head to head? Or was that sandbagging too?

I wonder if you are thinking of when Jameer and Dwight collided. That's is when the injuries occurred.

But if you are thinking of when D12 and DMC compete, the player with 160 games in the NBA, on the team whose plays are being run should and did come out ahead of the player who had played less than 30 games with this team and only a few more games in the league. What would you expect to happen?

But did DMC play well enough to get a lot of respect from D12 and did D12 learn from DMC, hell yeah!!

Luckily for them, they will be playing the majority of their future games with each other rather than against each other.

I wonder if you are thinking of when Jameer and Dwight collided. That's is when the injuries occurred.

But if you are thinking of when D12 and DMC compete, the player with 160 games in the NBA, on the team whose plays are being run should and did come out ahead of the player who had played less than 30 games with this team and only a few more games in the league. What would you expect to happen?

But did DMC play well enough to get a lot of respect from D12 and did D12 learn from DMC, hell yeah!!

Luckily for them, they will be playing the majority of their future games with each other rather than against each other.

Lazy, tell me your not subscribing to this sandbagging BS.

Lazy, tell me your not subscribing to this sandbagging BS.

Sandbagging? Never heard of such a term used in professional sports unless it is associated with illegal sports gambling and deliberately throwing a game but I won't go there. :sssh: :MusicBigGrin:

Hmmm, on second thought maybe this sandbagging theory has some legs...why of course... now we know why our starters are starting off like they picked up frost bite in Denver.... they're hiding in the weeds waiting to pounce on the unsuspecting prey... any day now they'll break out the wrestling belts and steamroll East.... I can see it now... Sheed makes the energizer bunny look like a pylon... Chauncey is break dancin' down the lane in Tazman fashion.... and Rip Van Winkilton arises from his slumber after receiving his MJ stem cell injection.... ah yes... any day now our Sandbagging plot is unleashed... any day now

Hmmm, on second thought maybe this sandbagging theory has some legs...why of course... now we know why our starters are starting off like they picked up frost bite in Denver.... they're hiding in the weeds waiting to pounce on the unsuspecting prey... any day now they'll break out the wrestling belts and steamroll East.... I can see it now... Sheed makes the energizer bunny look like a pylon... Chauncey is break dancin' down the lane in Tazman fashion.... and Rip Van Winkilton arises from his slumber after receiving his MJ stem cell injection.... ah yes... any day now our Sandbagging plot is unleashed... any day now

lol. :pound:

Sandbagging? Never heard of such a term used in professional sports unless it is associated with illegal sports gambling and deliberately throwing a game but I won't go there. :sssh: :MusicBigGrin:

I never considered sandbagging. I very briefly wondered if the Magic would try to lower his value by not giving him a good opportunity but discarded that immediately. It would be a terrible way to deal with a player who you would want to play well for your franchise.

I have been disappointed in the slow start. I figured that with the great summer that Dwight, Darko and Carlos had, they would hit the ground running. I believe that Darko's injury had a lot to do with his not getting off well, though. Guys on their forums said he was not getting around well.

His not starting is, to my way of thinking, the feeling that he can lead the second unit and they can make a huge impact on games. I think they are of the opinion that he has more impact that way than Tony but
that DMC will be starting by the all-star break. I think even Piston fans can see that DMC, Carlos, Ariza JJ, and either Hedo or Grant would make a second unit that would be one of the best in the NBA. But Darko and Dwight have to get more minutes together soon.

They remind me of WallaceX2 when they get it going.

The Sandbagging Theory. Why doesn't Brian Hill play Darko ahead of Tony Battie? Is it the experience? Cause it definately ain't the actual play.

Battie gets 25.7 minutes per game and Darko gets 19.4. So, they are basically getting the same amount of playing time. I have normalized Darko's stats to 25.7 minutes to illustrate a point here. Who would you start if you were the coach?

Battie/ Darko
Pts- 6.4/ 10.0
Rbs- 4.9/ 6.8
Ast- 0.3/ 1.2
Stl- 1.0/ 0.9
Blk- 0.7/ 2.3

(If you don't normalize for minutes played, Darko still leads in pts, rebs, ast, and blks.)

Give me a break. He's outplaying the vet here in a convincing way. The only explanations would be 1) BHill wants the 2nd unit to do well, 2) he is afraid that Darko will get cocky if he gives him the starting role too quickly, or 3) he is afraid that the Magic will be forced to pay somewhere close to the $60M contract Darko is looking for if he gets a full season of starter's stats.

By the way, Darko's minutes are not being limited by personal fouls either. He averages 2.9/game to Battie's 3.0/game.

Tony Battie has a lot of intangibles.

Tony Battie has a lot of intangibles.

He oughtta bring those intangibles off the bench :gun1: :stirthepot: !!

Just kiddin', I really don't care as long as Darko gets more and more minutes as the season progresses. It will come to a time when they HAVE to start him, at some point.

Besides, you will remember me as being a proponent of having a really effective second unit. If they feel that Darko helps more in that respect than starting, so be it.

One important thing though, play Dwight and Darko together as soon and as much as possible. That is the future. (of mankind??. . . Just kiddin', again).

I was kidding about the intangibles. I think Brian Hill doesn't like Europeans.

I thought you were, roscoe. That is like telling the person you are trying to fix up with a blind date, that the blind date has a "good personality".

Seriously though, I don't think Brian has anything at all against Darko. I believe that he figures he will be more help coming off the bench for now. I have heard and read that he says glowing things about him and I have heard Tony, Jameer, especially Dwight do the same. Dwight gives DMC credit for teaching him some things like better shot-blocking techniques and that he likes playing with Darko because DMC is looking to set Dwight up for shots.

I know also that the Magic management and the reporters down there changed their talks about who they considered the cornerstones. They include Darko, but before those last 30 games last year, Dwight and Jameer were the only ones in that category.

I don't know why when I talk with you on these forums, I wind up writing long posts. I guess I just like to talk to you.

Anyway, gotta go to bed now. See ya!!

Hi, Merc, DMC was only the 'sub' of the game, not the 'player'. That had to be Dwight but only slightly over Jameer. Trevor Ariza was in only his second game of the year, coming off injuries all during camp.

They have such a deep club and it is going to get better during the season. I really think of them as very much like the Pistons of a number of years ago. By that, I mean, someone new is continually coming up with a great game to give a spark, mostly off the bench.

But they are still spotty, of course.

I still think it is fun following two teams. Like tonight, when the Pistons had a bad game, the Magic had a good one. Another night, it will be reversed. Like having silver linings for most of the black clouds.

I follow two teams also. (Detroit, Orlando, and Chicago if I have time.) But I follow Orlando because its fun. Whether they win or lose, I really don't care. By pulling for them when I watch, it gives me interest in an NBA game which otherwise I would fall asleep watching. I have followed Denver for a few years, Toronto for a couple of years, amongst other teams. I absolutely do love to see Darko or Arroyo do well. Even Grant Hill, a past favorite. But you take those players off Orlando, and I will just choose another team to follow. I love watching NBA basketball, but not enough to keep me awake if I have no interest in the outcome of the game.

Following these other teams means I get to enjoy watching more NBA basketball, but the only team I love is the Pistons. If the Pistons are not winning, hey, I still watch game after game. I love it if they are winning, and I truly care. Bottom line is I have been a fan of Detroit sports in general since about age 12. The Tigers since age nine. Cheering for the Redwings was something I was born doing, as thats the family sport. (Although I quit paying attention to hockey much after I started watching the Tigers.) I was just basically raised, wired, whatever, to cheer for Detroit.

Yes, I love NBA basketball, but if there were no Detroit Pistons, I would find something else to do beside watch basketball. Without the Pistons, my interest would drop to near zero.

It's taken awhile but I think I've got Darkos defense pegged now...
His instincts for the ball are awful (rebounds, loose balls tracking players)... his P&R defense may be top 3 in the entire NBA... he can switch and recover with the best.
Guarding his man in the post is excellent.
He bites at everything going inside often leaving his man open for easy looks.
Trys to block all shots in his area... sometimes works... often leads to fouls or someone open underneath.

BTW Leon Powe scored 9 poins in 11 minutes tonight (Darko's man).
No predjudice or malice... just the facts.

It's taken awhile but I think I've got Darkos defense pegged now...
His instincts for the ball are awful (rebounds, loose balls tracking players)... his P&R defense may be top 3 in the entire NBA... he can switch and recover with the best.
Guarding his man in the post is excellent.
He bites at everything going inside often leaving his man open for easy looks.
Trys to block all shots in his area... sometimes works... often leads to fouls or someone open underneath.

BTW Leon Powe scored 9 poins in 11 minutes tonight (Darko's man).
No predjudice or malice... just the facts.

I concur with all of this. Average player who could excel as role player off the bench.

The Rock Star in Orlando is Carlos. He had a huge fan club the day he got there. Lots of people from Puerto Rico in Florida. They give him lots of LOVE.

They give him lots of LOVE.
Better them than us. He looks like he was abducted by aliens.

Carlos Arroyo photo (http://www-project.slac.stanford.edu/e158/Photos/Collaborators/page4.html)

Top row, second from the right.

Just an addition to the Darko bibliography.....

.Milicic finally starts to feel comfortable - Orlando Sentinel : Top Sports (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/local/orl-schmitz1406nov14,0,6042093.column?coll=orl-sports-headlines)

BTW Leon Powe scored 9 poins in 11 minutes tonight (Darko's man).
True Hoop: Leon Powe Sees NBA Action (http://www.truehoop.com/2006-draft-53332-leon-powe-sees-nba-action.html)

The hard-luck rookie saw his first NBA action last night, and left the Boston TV commentators saying "I don't know how you're going to keep Leon out of the lineup."
Great read about a guy who has been through hell. It was a battle of hard luck street kid Powe vs. tough as nails war survivor Darko. One for the ages.

Did a quick scan of the Magic Stats that makes up their 5-3 record. Looks like they are sustaining it by shooting over 50% as a team. Other than that they have deficits in Offensive boards, Huge deficits in Turns, Assists and Steals. The only category they lead in is blocks. They also have a very thin points for/against lead of 1.0.

Does not look like a winning record is going to last based on their overall stats. Shooting over 50% as a team is not sustainable.

The reason that they shoot a high FG% is that 41% of their shots are close to the rim, as opposed to 30% for the Pistons. And a good % are monster dunks by DHo.

They also out shoot us from long range by 47% to 43%... probably because they have guys camped out in the post that demand double teams.

I think that they will probably sustain close to 50% for the season. But yeah, the turns are hurting them.

The reason that they shoot a high FG% is that 41% of their shots are close to the rim, as opposed to 30% for the Pistons. And a good % are monster dunks by DHo.

They also out shoot us from long range by 47% to 43%... probably because they have guys camped out in the post that demand double teams.

I think that they will probably sustain close to 50% for the season. But yeah, the turns are hurting them.

Keep in mind Phoenix lead the league last season with .479. I don't know how far you would have to go back to find a team shooting near 50% for an entire season.

Max, as the season progresses and D12 learns how to pass out of double-teams, and they get used to the new ball, the TOs should drop and they will not need to keep 50%+ shooting to sustain them.

If and when DMC gets his PFs under control, his PT will increase and he plays well with D12 and might help keep some of the doubles off D12.

As TayShawn said in another post, it makes us appreciate CB.

Max, as the season progresses and D12 learns how to pass out of double-teams, and they get used to the new ball, the TOs should drop and they will not need to keep 50%+ shooting to sustain them.

If and when DMC gets his PFs under control, his PT will increase and he plays well with D12 and might help keep some of the doubles off D12.

As TayShawn said in another post, it makes us appreciate CB.

Spoked like a true fan. We can hope that one area improves when the other comes down to earth. Again I have not seen any Magic games but based on their stats the high FG% is whats standing out as explaining their early season success.

I am kind of an anti-magic fan this year because I want the Pistons to get a decent pick out of it.

Keep in mind Phoenix lead the league last season with .479. I don't know how far you would have to go back to find a team shooting near 50% for an entire season.

It has been done 54 times in the past 60 seasons. However, no team has done it since the Jazz in 96-97. Funny enough, the 2nd to last team to do it was the Magic in 95-96.

Another way to look at it, is that it was accomplished 53 times in the 18 year period between 1979 and 1997.

Almost every team on the list was in the 80's or 90's. Since the leage is changing the rules to get back to that high scoring crap, then I don't really see that it is out of the question for them to sustain it.

The all time record is held by the 84-85 Lakers with almost 54.5%. The 88-89 Pistons shot 49.4%

Do you think they are that special that they are going to get it done?

I am biased, I admit that because I would rather see the Pistons get a good pick than watch Darko develope. But shooting over 50 for the season is expecting a lot.

The Magic shot pretty well last year after Stevie Franchise left the team. So I don't think that the high % shooting is a fluke.

Nelson, Turk, Dooling, and Hill are all good outside shooters. But Howard really makes a difference with all of the dunks. Also, they are not nearly as 3-happy as Detroit.

Whether or not they can sustain a 50% mark depends mostly on the way that the games are called. If every touch is a foul, then the % will be a lot higher.

It is also possible that the turnovers and high shooting % are correlated. Maybe that make risky passes that lead to easy buckets. If they make safer passes, then they the shots will be more contested. Basketball is a very tricky sport to seperate correlation from cause-effect.