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Pistons Game 23 of the 2005/6 NBA Regular Season
Tues. Dec 20th 2005, 7:30 PM Eastern
Palace of Auburn Hills (http://www.palacenet.com/), built 1998, league leading capacity 22,076
TV: WDWB/WB20 (http://www.wb20detroit.com/)
Radio: WDFN 1130AM (http://www.wdfn.com/)

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Game Chat will open at 6:30 PM and close at 10:30 PM

~~Your thoughts?~~

If the Portland game is not the game to get Darko in, EARLY, rather than Davis, it is time to put him on someone else's roster. I am in no way advocating trading him now unless Flip trusts him less than Davis.

Davis has had no impact in any game I have heard about this year, and if you check the stats between them, DMC comes out ahead, during their appearances this year in the regular season, and in the pre-season, there was just no comparison.

Ben played huge minutes tonight and with his legs or feet hurting him, and especially with San Antonio and Miami coming up, for heavens's sake, put DMC in with the starters and tell him to "gitr dun".

If he cannot do it in this game with these starters against this team this year, then I think we should write him off and either trade him or pay him that exorbitant amount to sit on the bench. Take your choice, but do not put Dale in ahead of him.

With at least 15 or 20 minutes to play, and giving him something concrete to do, I would say with 95% guarantee that DMC would outdo Dale Davis. Amd I think it would be too disruptive to put JMax in as he would not be sharing the ball and that would be a problem for our offense.

It'll never happen, but it should.

If the Portland game is not the game to get Darko in, EARLY, rather than Davis, it is time to put him on someone else's roster. I am in no way advocating trading him now unless Flip trusts him less than Davis.

Davis has had no impact in any game I have heard about this year, and if you check the stats between them, DMC comes out ahead, during their appearances this year in the regular season, and in the pre-season, there was just no comparison.

Ben played huge minutes tonight and with his legs or feet hurting him, and especially with San Antonio and Miami coming up, for heavens's sake, put DMC in with the starters and tell him to "gitr dun".

If he cannot do it in this game with these starters against this team this year, then I think we should write him off and either trade him or pay him that exorbitant amount to sit on the bench. Take your choice, but do not put Dale in ahead of him.

With at least 15 or 20 minutes to play, and giving him something concrete to do, I would say with 95% guarantee that DMC would outdo Dale Davis. Amd I think it would be too disruptive to put JMax in as he would not be sharing the ball and that would be a problem for our offense.

It'll never happen, but it should.

Agreed totally. I don't mind losing this game. With the SA and Mia games coming up, we need the starters with fresh legs. Winning against SA and Mia is far more important. It is also the game where Darko should come in for Big Ben to play alongside Sheed instead of Dyess. Flip got to play him with the starters more, maybe he will pick it up and improve from there. If he still can't do, TRADE his LAZY %%%%% out of DETROIT!!! Delfino has shown nothing but improve in all aspects of the game since Flip has been mixing him with the starters lately. Hope Darko does too.

All 12 players should get some minutes in this game. Flip, please keep the starters below 32 min in this game and if possible, for every game. If this is not the time to play your bench, when will be the time?

for the bench tonight. Can they deliver? It's time they stepped up. Too much spectating when the game is on the line. Tonight would be opportune for Darko and Davis to both play. Starting on the 23rd, Detroit has five games in nine days. Need to get ready. I think Detroit can still win tonight but Flip will need to do a masterful coaching job. :nod:

I know our guys are extremely tired but I see a blowout tonight. Portland is terrible.

Bench smench. Flip's not going to play them. They might get a FEW more minutes but flips going to ride them until the bitter end unless its a blowout. They got 2-3 days to recover after this.

Maybe I heard wrong but I thought Ben is injured. Bad legs or feet. You don't recover that in a couple of days, and we have Shaq coming up, and SA before that.

Ben play hurt against Miami and SA, on national tv; I hate the sound of that.

I haven't seen anything on the wire. He has bad wheels and played nearly an hour of game time. But nothing has been reported.

expect sheed to take it to his former team not only because that i expect him to do good, but i expect him wanting to comeback off yesterdays performance at memphis.

This is the guy the will be huge if his game can get to the level I think he can. He is the one that can create a shot off the dribble and has unlimited range. If we have a future manu on the roster than the Pistons bench will be solid going into the playoffs.:eyebrows:

Chat is open kiddos. Jackattaq is getting lonely in there.

Chat is open kiddos. Jackattaq is getting lonely in there.

Is he talking to himself?

as any win is a good win.

as I am stuck in scotland just now and only hear the games on radio with a few highlights here and there.... my question is, Is Evans as bad as it seems lately (no Lee answers thanks.... GRIN) Delfino seems to be coming on nicely.

Good thing is the christmas games are both on tv here and i fly home for christmas middle of the week so i'll get to see a couple of really good games while i am back in the states....

Portland bench 32, Detroit bench 6. How lopsided is it gonna get?

Our starters will need these two days off to rest after back to back games of bailing the team out. Ben put up 106 minutes in the last two nights. We need contribution from the bench on a consistent basis. :frusty:
They really got step to it up on Friday just so that the starters are fresh on x-mas.

Flip admitted that we don't score points in the paint, but we got to be able to do this on those nights when the perimeter shots stop falling. This is going to catch up with us come playoff time. :confused:

Dale Davis did not provide anything in those opening minutes of the 4th when Przbylla and Patterson out jumped him and scored in the lane without any stops by him or the guards. Flip has to get Jmax more playing time or he will devlope the same splinters as "Where's Waldo, I mean Darko!:eyebrows:

Went to the wife's office party. Pretended to smoke so I could step outside and catch a few minutes of the game on the car radio.


I listened to the last quarter on the drive home. Not to sound ungrateful for the great record, but... Could we please score in the paint and play a little D?


Seems like front lines are having career games against us right now. Gasol, Randolph, etc. Is it too much to ask to put a litte pressure on the blocks?

No legs. But we won, the 7th of 8 in a horrendous stretch of game. Amazing. 20-3. Amazing. Sheed hit three triples. And Tay was hitting. And Rip was bouncing up off the floor and scoring some more. Hitting his free throws. Tonight, we got nothing at all from Dyess. Nothing at all from Davis either, not even a simple rebound off a missed free throw. But at least they kept the starters off their feet for just a little bit. Ben got a good rest from Dyess and Davis in that 2nd half.

I will note, we had a bit of a lead that went bye bye with Evans on the floor in the 4th. And he did a lot of bad stuff. I again will let anyone else who cares to point out this stuff.

The bench did not do all that bad. Arroyo did lead us back into the game there in the 2nd quarter, taking a deficit and handing the starters back a tie game. I like seeing Arroyo working on stretching out his range. Remember, when he shoots a lot of 3's, he is a 33% shooter from there. Not that bad. Arroyo so far this year is not taking that many shots.

All this was not just a bad game by the Pistons front line. Pryzbilla was doing very well. Patterson was showing he indeed can score if asked to. And Randolf was hitting some pretty crazy shots.

Got to give it up to Ben again on his free throw shooting. It would have been a lot harder to win this one without Ben doing a decent job at the line.

That first half saw us just turn the ball over 5 times. Another good job by our point guards. The one turn by Arroyo was a good attempt to feed Sheed in the post. Nothing wrong with that. You got to expect some post feeds to go bad. Other Piston players had some simple mental mistakes in passing the ball. Big difference. But still, as a team we did not turn the ball over that much.

Obviously, we had a lot of mismatches tonight, and we got to line from that over and over. And we made our free throws. Our overall talent simply won out, despite getting big time outplayed in the paint.

Flip is seriously got in for Darko or something. Serious foul trouble. Our starters playing most of the 1st half and still no Darko. Hey, we won. We are doing great. Lots of time to start playing Darko again. If Flip is copping an attitude on Darko, that is his mistake. We are not going to win a 7 game series without Darko playing in our rotation if we are facing Shaq or Duncan. People who like Davis, remember this. He still has yet to score a bucket for us. He can't even bother Shaq the least bit, and he is too slow to put on Duncan. Meanwhile, Ben nor Sheed can guard Shaq, and foul trouble is inevitable against Duncan. Every game Darko sits, he is going to get more rusty. Time to get Darko in there to build his game. For the sake of the Pistons, not Darko.

Same question about Evans from those who got to see the game (again, other than Lee).

I'm having a tough time seeing what exactly he's bringing to the table right now.

We just can't keep pounding our starters like this. They're logging way way too many minutes (obviously).

FG% 39%
Opp FG% 50%
Reb 36
Opp Reb 40

Right now the TO spread is winning games. 8 TOs to Portland's 16. You can't win a 7 game series if you are outrebounded every game and are letting opponents shoot at least 43%.

Did anyone else catch Blaha's priceless commentary when a certain Trailblazer put up a shot?

"Jarrett Jack, off the glass!" Truly memorable. :first:

geezus you guys are harsh, the pistons are playing their 4th game in 5 nights after a double overtime, cut 'em some slack. they played a slower game and made some bad decisions, but they still shot 46% from 3, made 27-29 free throws (shooting 9 more than portland), with 7 less turnovers, and they won the battle of offensive rebounding.

in short they did what they had to do to win, we're 20-3, and this was the first of 5 straight at home. right now life is good in pistonland.

geezus you guys are harsh, the pistons are playing their 4th game in 5 nights after a double overtime, cut 'em some slack. they played a slower game and made some bad decisions, but they still shot 46% from 3, made 27-29 free throws (shooting 9 more than portland), with 7 less turnovers, and they won the battle of offensive rebounding.

in short they did what they had to do to win, we're 20-3, and this was the first of 5 straight at home. right now life is good in pistonland.

At the very end of this, we have a back to back. But for a long stretch, mostly home games, and well spaced. Still, there are problems. And even if we won all 82 games this season, it would not help us get past Miami nor SA. We still need Darko. We still need Evans out of the rotation. (and find a role as a defensive specialist for him. Where his spot up shooting will be more effective as it will catch teams off guard.)And we need Flip to trust Delfino more or get yet a different player to play backup small forward minutes. Do something. Forget the record for a bit and get that bench right.

Now, I will say I am very pleased seeing Delfino out there over and over lately. A big step up from weeks past. That is progress. But the season is really very short. Not that much time really until the playoffs. Flip has yet to install myriads of plays, and at the same time he has to find a bench that works consistently. For now, I say sit Davis on the inactive list and start playing either Acker or Amir Johnson just a bit, along with Maxiell of course.

To answer the Evans questions, he has been pretty ineffective lately. He always hustles, but looks lost on offense. Except for his potential three pointers, he is basically playing the same type of game as Darvin Ham. Good hustle plays, decent defense, and average rebounding. I think that he could be best in a fast break scheme with Lindsay, Arroyo, Delfino, and Sheed. But I'm not ready to yank him yet. He was the MVP on his Euro team and he was good in the preseason. It may be that they are not running plays for him. Or it may be that he doesn't have the same confidence when he is surrounded by better players.

I agree with Lee on Dale Davis too. He's not adding much at all. Even if Darko is having a lethargic night, we would be just as well off. It has been 2.5 years now, and DMC has not been given the chance to lose a game for the Pistons. LeBron and Carmelo have been given 180 chances to lose games for their teams, and they are batting about .500.

At some point, we should give each of the rookies some experience. Not enought to hurt the team, but enough to see how they respond in a real situation. Of course Maxiel is going to shoot the ball in garbage time. I bet in a tight situation in a real game he would be too unselfish. And Acker should at least get a taste before Lindsay comes back.

But man, the starting five are really pushing themselves. They are motivated beyond belief. We really can't ask anything more out of them.

I am not sure if he has Piston DNA, but I am kind of wishing we would have traded Darko for Al Harrington. However, I am going to trust JD on this one.

I don't know guys. If the bench loses a game or if the starters lose a game, it's going to hurt. You knock Mo but to date he has played 47 less min. than Dyess but has scored more points. This starting 5 is as smooth as a Jaguar. Let's see our underrated bench develope some unity.

the bench has not been that great this season, but for the past couple of games it's been horrible because arroyo has sucked and he creates plays for most of the players off the bench. maybe when lindsey comesback our bench will get a lot of fastbreak points to hekp us win.:noidea:

Missed the whole game last night, and had to come here to get the 411. Glad to see Delfino keeps geeting good run, and glad to see we won, after a double OT battle on the road the night before, this win was a blessing. Now against GS we need some pts in the paint, Sheed, Dyess, heck man even Max.....and Ben needs to pound the offensive glass. I agree with most posters who seem a little irked that our front line is not shutting teams down upfront, I mean Joe has invested alot in making sure this team could do that.

OK I just checked the Box Score and I'm Furious about the BENCH!!!!! This is just rediculous!!!!!! We need to give Spree a chance, or go get MoPete, or Mike James, or Earl Watson, or Al Harrington etc etc etc. I've been one who's felt that our starting five is so good that our bench is going to be marginal at best, but man this production is rediculous............Now those who know me well will understand the magnitude of this statement, Bring Chucky Back you have to!!!!!!! And believe me I can't stand C Atkins personally or professionally.

Its pretty tough to contribute or screw up if you never get in the game.

I don't know if Mike james would be happy playing 11 minutes a night. Neither would Al.

Did anyone else catch Blaha's priceless commentary when a certain Trailblazer put up a shot?

"Jarrett Jack, off the glass!" Truly memorable. :first:

LOL :laugh:

To answer the Evans questions, he has been pretty ineffective lately. He always hustles, but looks lost on offense. Except for his potential three pointers, he is basically playing the same type of game as Darvin Ham. Good hustle plays, decent defense, and average rebounding. I think that he could be best in a fast break scheme with Lindsay, Arroyo, Delfino, and Sheed. But I'm not ready to yank him yet. He was the MVP on his Euro team and he was good in the preseason. It may be that they are not running plays for him. Or it may be that he doesn't have the same confidence when he is surrounded by better players.

On top of all of that Evans is messing up on D also. Last night Arroyo should not have been the only one back in transition to perform what is becomming the all too commonplace AND1. Mo sagged into the lane looking for an O board off of a Ben TO or miss (can't remember which), surrendering his position up top. But, Mo wasn't alone in bench sucking.

I don't know if Mike james would be happy playing 11 minutes a night. Neither would Al.

I think we could find MJ 20-25 minutes by swapping CB to the 2 & Rip to the 3 occassionally...it would give Tay a few minutes off AND might be a blast to watch. :eyebrows:

Mo Evans is the reason we haven't been playing good "D" in the paint... he's also causing our bigs to miss rebounds... see he forgot to shower again and he's scaring the boys outta the paint... Noone else on the bench has any problems...It's Mo's fault!

In all seriousness, obviously Evans is not the source of all of our problems.

My question was geared more at whether Delfino ought to be seeing more time than Evans. Except for his offensive rebounding, I don't see Evans contributing a lot. He's scoreless in the last two games and the Pistons' post-game host after the Memphis game mentioned that he looked "lost" out there.

He really isn't much of a ball-handler or passer and his defense frankly hasn't been much better than CD's. He is also not able to create shots for himself. That being the case, it would seem that Delfino, who can at least handle and take his guy off the dribble, might be the better option.

Since I'm listening to the games on radio, I would like to know if someone watching can give an objective viewpoint about what they're seeing that may differ from what I am hearing and looking at in the box score the next day.

isnt lee's recaps enough to sway your opinion ?????:) no well i am in the same boat as you having only seen like 4 games and listening to the rest but imo delfino should be getting the minutes not mo.

In all seriousness, obviously Evans is not the source of all of our problems.

Since I'm listening to the games on radio, I would like to know if someone watching can give an objective viewpoint about what they're seeing that may differ from what I am hearing and looking at in the box score the next day.

I've seen every game on except for Utah and last night. From what I can see, I have to say that Delfino certainly looks more comfortable out there on both offense and defense, and not just individually, but as part of whatever group he's out there with (though especially with some combination of 2 or 3 starters). And this seems to improve with every game. I really like Mo's energy, on the one hand, but it seems that it too rarely actually translates into results. He's reminding me a little bit of Ronald Dupree. Both are players I liked because their athleticism and energy always brought the promise of something about to happen, but then neither really made it happen with enough consistency. So in my opinion Delfino should definitely be getting more of Mo's minutes. In fact, I'd say Delfino could be getting as many as 25 mins a game subbing in different combinations for Rip and Tay. There'd obviously be a drop off, but I really don't think it would even amount to costing the Pistons a game.

Some people may not want to hear this, but I thought I would point out one thing Evans did that completely baffled me. He was guarding a guard out on the left baseline, and inexplicably just left the guy. The guy nailed a shot, uncontested. Just what did Evans think he was doing on that play? Now, I have seen a guy like Ben Wallace back off from a guard figuring to position for the rebound instead, but look, we are talking about Mo Evans here, not a center. He had no business curling into the paint as his guy went to the corner. Anybody else see this and have any theories on why Mo did this? (Besides simple incompetence)

I like Delfino, but I also think the Pistons should explore other possibilities for backup small forward minutes. Even using Amir Johnson some. Maxiell is a guy I'd like to see out there, recomprising Corliss' old role as a dominant small forward.

Here is the bench I envision at the moment: Arroyo, Delfino, (Maxiell and Johnson sharing minutes at backup small forward), Dyess, Darko.

Both Maxiell or Johnson would give us better rebounding vs. Evans. (Not that Evans has not been doing good on offensive rebounding.) Amir Johnson is much more polished a basketball player, despite his young age, vs. Evans, from what I can see. At least in the summer league, what I saw were snap decisions from Amir Johnson and consistently good decisions. The guy had an 8-9 game where he simply did not take bad shots. (Except he did one time test his range a bit and missed. All his inside shots he nailed. He knew instantly when to shoot, when to pass. Impressed the heck out of me.)

Maxiell would give us less perimeter D than Evans, but you know what, not that much less. Sure, you put a shooting guard at small forward and Maxiell is going to have to leave the perimeter D to someone else. But he is not that slow, and has great hops with timing and instincts about when to stay home and when to go up. For absolute sure he is going to provide more interior D than Evans. Maxiell is a swat machine, and has great strength. On ball handling, not much there. But since he can post up, it does not matter. He would be a good, consistent offensive weopon for us just from his postup game, freeing up the perimeter just by that.

OK I just checked the Box Score and I'm Furious about the BENCH!!!!! This is just rediculous!!!!!! We need to give Spree a chance, or go get MoPete, or Mike James, or Earl Watson, or Al Harrington etc etc etc. I've been one who's felt that our starting five is so good that our bench is going to be marginal at best, but man this production is rediculous............Now those who know me well will understand the magnitude of this statement, Bring Chucky Back you have to!!!!!!! And believe me I can't stand C Atkins personally or professionally.

i have to agree with you there, but what i don't understand is why the bench is doing so bad, arroyo and dice would be good starters on other teams. darko is actually a second pick, and delfino and evans are good too. it confuses me.

Mark me down for Delfino being ahead of Evans in the pecking over. Defensively Evans has definitely been a letdown. I think Evans might be a better fit on a team like Phoenix where the offense is more wide open and screens are the norm since he does appear to have difficulty creating his own shot. I agree that he seems to have become very Dupree like in effectiveness. I don't think that Amir Johnson is the solution though. He needs more development. Delfino has earned an opportunity to have a more prominent role with the team. I really like the intangibles he brings to our squad: outside shot, ballhandling, offensive creativity. (Credit bballj for his hindsight on Delfino's potential)

Frankly, I think the identity and success of the second unit will be more solidified once Delfino becomes a regular in the rotation. I think Flip is slowly beginning to sour on Maurice (playing time is slowly decreasing), so a Delfino push may happen sooner than we may expect.

(Credit bballj for his hindsight on Delfino's potential)

What about Lee? He's all about Delfino.

What about Lee? He's all about Delfino.

Well, I'll give Lee some credit. :) He noted Mo Evans deficiencies on defense back when Mo first tried his hand at defending D. Wade in the preseason. At that point, he nailed Mo's problems: overrated/undersized defender and poor ball handler. His lineups have also mention Delfino backing up the two spot, but then again he has published about 3 million lineups so its hard for me to recall if he was a definite Delfino supporter.

On the other hand, my reference to BBallj was simply because we had a spirted discussion about Delfino's potential during the preseason. I was of course in the "show me the money" stage, while BBallj was persistent in saying that Delfino was a lock to be a quality player in this league. He obviously saw his true potential before I was sold, so I am giving him props now for his forsight. Just as I will be sure to let him know if he made the wrong call prematurely. In this case, his call ended up panning out.

Amir Johnson is much more polished a basketball player, despite his young age, vs. Evans, from what I can see.

see comments like that are the reason why i can't take you seriously.

Well, I'll give Lee some credit. :) He noted Mo Evans deficiencies on defense back when Mo first tried his hand at defending D. Wade in the preseason. At that point, he nailed Mo's problems: overrated/undersized defender and poor ball handler. His lineups have also mention Delfino backing up the two spot, but then again he has published about 3 million lineups so its hard for me to recall if he was a definite Delfino supporter.

On the other hand, my reference to BBallj was simply because we had a spirted discussion about Delfino's potential during the preseason. I was of course in the "show me the money" stage, while BBallj was persistent in saying that Delfino was a lock to be a quality player in this league. He obviously saw his true potential before I was sold, so I am giving him props now for his forsight. Just as I will be sure to let him know if he made the wrong call prematurely. In this case, his call ended up panning out.

yeah well lets hope he's right about darko too. truly i want him to prove everyone that darko is great. if he ends up being good bball jay is going to bash at me for a long time because i've been one of the main guys in trying to tell him darko is not that good.

yeah well lets hope he's right about darko too. truly i want him to prove everyone that darko is great. if he ends up being good bball jay is going to bash at me for a long time because i've been one of the main guys in trying to tell him darko is not that good.

Darko needs to go through the process of playing through mistakes before anyone knows how good he is or will be. For a guy of his size, it can take 2-4 seasons of ugliness. He is just not on the right team at the right time. He would have been better off spending the last 2 years at Western Michigan playing for the Golden Buffalos (or whatever they are called).

see comments like that are the reason why i can't take you seriously.

Amen.

Next thing you know, Darko will be more polished than Bogut.

I think Flip has a problem judging talent.
After watching Delfino in the Olympics, I thought we had a steal for a late first round pick. And when he played for Larry, he obviously did something to impress, because he was getting serious pt from day one. But after the injury, the crap hit the fan. And I blame CD as much as anyone, he clearly overreacted to his injury.

But come season 2, CD over the injury, over the emotional blocks, and he's playing better than last year, yet Flip plays Evans over him. Huh? I think most people will say Delfino is a better player than Evans now, and has more potential. So, Flip, why aint you playing him more? Flip, fix the bench, put some logic into PT. Play guys who are good, sit the guys who play bad. Nuff said.

see comments like that are the reason why i can't take you seriously.

Have you seen Amir Johnson play any? I would love to hear your comments about his game.

Evans was out defending Jack. Jack put a move on Evans along the baseline. Evans simply got so off balance he ended up 12 feet away, clear on the other side of the basket, by the time Jack nailed that shot.

Have you seen Amir Johnson play any? I would love to hear your comments about his game.

you haven't seen him. preseason doesn't count. everyone agrees he needs to get his game and body nba-ready, including himself. to say he is polished...is just wow.

I saw his pic in the free press does that count?

you haven't seen him. preseason doesn't count. everyone agrees he needs to get his game and body nba-ready, including himself. to say he is polished...is just wow.

I said he had a more polished game vs. Evans. In case you don't know, I think very little of Evans as far as knowing his basketball. I ain't saying a whole lot good about Amir Johnson by saying he is more polished as an NBA player than Evans.

By the way, here is the opinion of the announcer calling those summer leagure games: Amir Johnson is more ready as an NBA player vs. Darko. Ain't just me saying Amir Johnson has game.

I said he had a more polished game vs. Evans. In case you don't know, I think very little of Evans as far as knowing his basketball. I ain't saying a whole lot good about Amir Johnson by saying he is more polished as an NBA player than Evans.

By the way, here is the opinion of the announcer calling those summer leagure games: Amir Johnson is more ready as an NBA player vs. Darko. Ain't just me saying Amir Johnson has game.

IMO...the announcer was saying that Darko isn't ready for the NBA.

Question for Lee:

If Delfino or Darko's man made him look silly on defense would you give this the same attention as you would Evans failures?

No. Although he would use at least four paragraphs to say so.

Question for Lee:

If Delfino or Darko's man made him look silly on defense would you give this the same attention as you would Evans failures?

I did not expect Delfino to be as good as he is on defense. I was expecting to be pointing out problems with his defense. Just nothing to report on that front. Delfino is listed at 6-6, despite being a true 6-6 bare footed. He could easily be listed at 6-8. And he is quick for his 230 lb weight. And he seems to understand and quickly execute defensive rotations. Pretty impressive so far.

On Darko, I expect other players to burn him. A few times. But then I expect him to learn, adjust, and do better against those players. Unfortunately, so far Flip has not played Darko much. Not a whole lot of chance to see how quickly Darko is learning. But overall, to this point, what I see from Darko is pretty darn good. His rebounding is about just where you would expect considering his lack of experience, and his shotblocking ability is shining thru just fine.

I am going to go check something out. Pachulia is having a good year. I wonder how his numbers were with less minutes in years prior? Catch you later.

I see somebody has decided Pachulia would be better for us vs. Darko. I will point out one simple stat. Darko is currently at 6.2 blocks per 48 minutes of playing time. Pachulia is at 1.0 block per 48 minutes of playing time. Pachulia is starting for his team and getting major minutes, but has no more blocks than Darko does for the year. Think again. Its Darko that is the right guy for this team.

I see somebody has decided Pachulia would be better for us vs. Darko. I will point out one simple stat. Darko is currently at 6.2 blocks per 48 minutes of playing time. Pachulia is at 1.0 block per 48 minutes of playing time. Pachulia is starting for his team and getting major minutes, but has no more blocks than Darko does for the year. Think again. Its Darko that is the right guy for this team.

Dude, your whole arguement is that Darko is better for our team because he averages more blocks per 48 minutes.

All of this is based on one stat that is projected and does not take into account his propensity to foul when he is an aggressive shot blocker?

Lame.

Come on Lee, you can do better than that.

There ARE other facets to the game other than shot-blocking.

It's a slow day in Flint, and lee is yanking your chains to get a reaction.

It's a slow day in Flint, and lee is yanking your chains to get a reaction.

LOL:laugh:

Dude, your whole arguement is that Darko is better for our team because he averages more blocks per 48 minutes.

All of this is based on one stat that is projected and does not take into account his propensity to foul when he is an aggressive shot blocker?

Lame.

Come on Lee, you can do better than that.

This is what Darko has actually done. Actual performance. On a per minute basis, he has been blocking shots at a rate 6 times higher than Pachulia. He has actually matched Pachulia in blocks for the season despite playing way less.

Anyone who wants to think of 48 minute stats as projections is simply not understanding what 48 minute stats are good for. No way are they for projecting what a player would do in a 48 minute game.

48 minute stats, or per minute stats, or per 40 minute stats, all do the same thing. They quickly tell you what the actual performance on something has been between two players with disimilar minutes. Nothing more.

Yes, there is more to basketball than blocks. But a player shutting down the lane like Darko does with his exceptional shot blocking ability is nothing to quickly dismiss either.

Lee, the question was... If Delfino or Darko's man made him look silly on defense would you give this the same attention as you would Evans failures?

All you did was state that Delfino hasn't show any faults on defense so far (total BS)... BTW, he was beat off the dribble at least twice tonight.

So you did answer the question satisfactorly... your answer is clearly NO, I will not report the same failures of Darko and Delfino... I will instead mask any of their mistakes and not report them like I do Evans.

Nice to see you finally give Evans some props... kinda hard to avoid tonight.
Which player will receive your rath more ...Hunter or Evans?

Lee, the question was... If Delfino or Darko's man made him look silly on defense would you give this the same attention as you would Evans failures?

All you did was state that Delfino hasn't show any faults on defense so far (total BS)... BTW, he was beat off the dribble at least twice tonight.

So you did answer the question satisfactorly... your answer is clearly NO, I will not report the same failures of Darko and Delfino... I will instead mask any of their mistakes and not report them like I do Evans.

Nice to see you finally give Evans some props... kinda hard to avoid tonight.
Which player will receive your rath more ...Hunter or Evans?

Getting beat off the dribble a couple of times is nothing. What would be reportable is if it keeps happening. If Delfino consistently showed he could not adjust to a player. Same for Darko. If someone beats him inside, consistently, thats reportable. Getting beat inside happens all the time. It happens to Ben and Sheed constantly. But generally, except by guys like Shaq, not consistently.

I absolutely will report whatever I see negative from Darko or Delfino, same as for any other player. At this point, neither Darko nor Delfino have a ton of experience with guarding any particular player. So simply no negative patterns to report. Sure, you could find fault, make a big deal of it. That is, if you don't understand basketball. Basketball is about making adjustments.

Evans, since he has been in the rotation a lot this year, absolutely has a pattern to report on his defense. So far, he has shown precious little ability to defend taller shooting guards nor small forwards. And he has shown not able to avoid being burnt by point guards. Basically, he has very consistently shown to have trouble guarding NBA players. Game after game, after game. The trend of late is for Flip to give in to the fact Evans can't guard the other team's better offensive players, and has him guarding mostly guards now. Its a big disappointment compared to what I expected from Evans on defense. And very reportable. If he improves, I will report that.

Last observation on Evans, against GS, he can't for a moment stay with Baron Davis. Dissapointing. I really hoped he had some ability defensively to stay with a guy like Davis.

The best observation of Evans' defense is how he did against Gilbert Arenas. Apparently, he matches up quite well with Arenas, and was very effective in closing Arenas down. Thats one player so far where Evans has impressed me with his defense. In 23 games. If you think there is another case worth reporting, let me know. I would be glad to hear another opinion.

This is what Darko has actually done. Actual performance. On a per minute basis, he has been blocking shots at a rate 6 times higher than Pachulia. He has actually matched Pachulia in blocks for the season despite playing way less.

Anyone who wants to think of 48 minute stats as projections is simply not understanding what 48 minute stats are good for. No way are they for projecting what a player would do in a 48 minute game.

48 minute stats, or per minute stats, or per 40 minute stats, all do the same thing. They quickly tell you what the actual performance on something has been between two players with disimilar minutes. Nothing more.

Yes, there is more to basketball than blocks. But a player shutting down the lane like Darko does with his exceptional shot blocking ability is nothing to quickly dismiss either.

Dude, that tactic won't work on me. lol.

Nice try.

The validity of a block in a game was not the issue. It was you only siting Darko's shot blocking presence as the criteria for why you thought Darko was a better fit for the Pistons than Pachulia.

Your self preservation is obvious.

The 48 min stat deal, well its still a projection as the player did not actually earn the stat calculated.

If I grab a rebound after being in a game for a minute am I guaranteed to grab a rebound the next minute? Or even the next?

Nope.

There goes your arguement.

If in my one minute, I average a rebound and a foul should the evaluation end at 6 mins versus 48?

There goes your arguement again.

Again, this stat is just an estimate. A weak one, but better than nothing when trying to evaluate players. I think it works best when tracking two players that receive a bulk of minutes. The degree of accuracy of the calculation declines as the variance of actual minutes by compared player increases.

Using it to defend a Darko arguement with one stat against a player who has had an awesome season against the NBA's top talent is well...even more weak.