http://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/DET_3079.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/vs.gifhttp://www.pistonsforum.com/img/resources/team/NY_812.gif

Pistons Game 14 of the 2005/6 NBA Regular Season
Fri. Dec 2nd 2005, 8:00 PM Eastern
Palace of Auburn Hills (http://www.palacenet.com/), built 1998, league leading capacity 22,076
TV: WDIV (http://www.clickondetroit.com/), ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/index)
Radio: WDFN 1130AM (http://www.wdfn.com/)


Pre game Reading

Brown returns to where he once coached (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-knicks-pistons-brownsreturn&prov=ap&type=lgns)

How will Detroit react when Brown makes his return? (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/13299518.htm)

Micro's Rookie to watch for
Everyone is amazed and intrigued by Nate Robinson, the diminutive PG with sick hops. Well, the Knicks had a great draft and my man to watch is Channing Frye. He's scored 19 or more in 6 of his last 9 outings. He was co-Rookie of the Month with Chris Paul for November. The 22 year old former Arizona Wildcat and 8th overall pick in the draft is averaging a solid 14 and 6 while shooting over 50%.

College Scouting Report - Thinly-built big man with a smooth back to the basket repertoire ... Makes use of the ball fake in the post, he is very adept at getting his defender in the air ... Keeps the ball high and cuts to his position well ... Long arms allow him to do a lot of good as his reach allows him to come over the top of his opponent ... Loves the jump hook, and should be able to develop a game facing the basket ... Good shot-blocker, and runs the floor well ... Great recovery quickness, he's able to get up and down for a second and third jump very quickly ... Possesses a nice set of hands to pull in caroms and feeds ... Has improved his decision making on the floor, with regard to not only shot selection, but in terms of avoiding foul trouble and finding his teammates on offense.

Frye reminds me of a modern day version of Larry Brown's previous ROY protege, Buck Williams. If Chris Paul hits the wall or gets injured, Frye looks like a serious ROY contender. He will likely be starting at the 5 in the Rookie All-Star game. Ben should have his hands full.


Knicks/Pistons Stats Preview

http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/12205.gif

ESPN Box Score (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251202008)

ESPN Game Notes
Knicks president Isiah Thomas, who led the Pistons to titles in 1989 and 1990, was honored at halftime by having "11 Thomas" permanently placed on the sideline at The Palace.
Traffic was so bad Detroit coach Flip Saunders didn't arrive at the arena until an hour before tipoff because his 20-minute drive took 1 hour, 45 minutes. He joked that Brown almost had to coach both teams.
Dale Davis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=404), who has played in just three games, scored his first point with the Pistons late in the first half.

In the second quarter alone, New York's Jerome James (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3279) scored a season-high five points.

http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/rip-vs-butler.jpg

http://www.pistonsforum.com/images/picdump/frye-vs-darko.jpg

I am in a public library in Ohio and was just checking the forum. I was thinking that it would be neat for Flip to call Darko's number a few times in this game just to see how he would react against "little ykw's" team.

It could be the little thing that would make for a break-out game :thumb: :eyebrows: :bounce: :rapture:

If Darko don't get motivated for the Knicks... then it's hopeless.

I am in a public library in Ohio

What do Ohioans need libraries for? :laugh:

If Darko don't get motivated for the Knicks... then it's hopeless.

he better get motivated.

Hey Darko - ARE YOU Listening ?!? :mad:
The only way to SHUT these Fans up is to Become a Man and begin to Play PISTON BALL !!! :wink:
You can do it - Joe beleives IT. We do. Did you see the way we clung to every detail of the European Champs to see how you were Playing ?!? We want you to Succeed.:nod:
Keep COOL! :cool:

MAKE IT HAPPEN - Do what is necessary. Go Beserk. JUST DO IT !! :thumb:
WE ARE JUST TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOU TO GROW UP. :frusty:

ABRACO :nod:

P.S. Make Your Teammates Take Notice That they need to WORK to KEEP THEIR MINUTES !!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnrKQBlIVOKLUpgtdPBvMHA5nYcB?slug=ap-knicks-pistons-brownsreturn&prov=ap&type=lgns

i'll be clapping and booing at the same time to cover all the bases :)

If people from Ohio don't need libraries, I don't know who does :confused: .

We are on our way down to FL for the winter. Now, I am in a library in Landrum SC.

I agree, if DMC cannot get motiviated for tonight's game, I guess we should let him out to pasture, but he does need to play to show if he does or does not have the motivation for tonight. Might be a good chance to rest Ben and let DMC start and Dyce be the first big off the bench :deadhorse . Just for tonight. Would you say that the Knicks are as good as Atlanta was last year? :eyebrows: :nod: .

Again, getting 12-15 minutes EVERY game would motivate DMC more than any other thing in this world, even if 3 or 4 of it was in garbage time.

Oh well, I guess we will see what happens.

We need to get this one, for sure.

As a 40 year fan of Detroit sports, let me say that I have grown tired of the bad images that surround this city, county and state. Some moments I shame on:
1. The brawl last year vs Pacers
2. The aftermath of winning 84 world series
3. The reputation of The Big house being the Quiet house
among others...but to show our rear ends tonight for the head coach of our third world championship on national Tv would break my heart. This is the same man who took a extra timeout to celebrate the career of Reggie Miller in the midst of our victory. I love his wearing of local teams jerseys at press conferrences and his deferrence to his players for accolades. His daily influences in the locker room are what helped revitalize and professionalize Sheed's career. ....
in conclusion, if those 22,000 representatives of Pistonnation embarrass us all tonight, i will be very disappointed...
cheer him tonight-then let him go.....my bruddahs!

Something to watch for this game is the new lineup LB is trying... with Nate Robinson at PG and Starbury at SG... this was very effective vs the Bulls... Crawford came off the bench and put up 28 points.
They will be looking to penetrate often.
We need to make them pay by posting up the little guys.

I anticipate the Pistons coming out fully charged. It seems like whenever they do that they win without difficulty. The Knick will play tough for a short period, but they can't hang with Detroit's talent or drive. They will fade by the end of the first quarter.

Blowout. Pistons by 29. At any rate, no way Detroit loses this one.

Detroit 112
Knicks 83

Yep. I really do think that's gonna happen. :nod:

I also think there will be a smattering of Boos for Larry but the cheers will drown them out. (I think that's a good thing).

Additionally, the starters are going to build that big league so the bench has a chance to show Larry what they can do. (What they CAN do remains to be seen, however).

I'm really looking forward to this one.

Something to watch for this game is the new lineup LB is trying... with Nate Robinson at PG and Starbury at SG.

Robinson worries me. Who will keep up with him? Gotta be Rip.

Bump for update to first post in this thread.

Sure, a lot of attention will be at the Palace tonight, but I would bet most NBA fans will be glued to the game featuring Toronto at Atlanta.

The Hawks are 2-12. The Raptors are 1-15. The combined 3-27 winning percentage is .100 and that is the lowest in league history (based on a minimum of 30 games played).


The Hawks try to snap a three-game losing streak. The Raptors are looking to snap a six-game skid and still are searching for their first road victory.

Man, I wish I had NBA TV. Could someone Tivo this one for me?

Sure, a lot of attention will be at the Palace tonight, but I would bet most NBA fans will be glued to the game featuring Toronto at Atlanta.

The Hawks are 2-12. The Raptors are 1-15. The combined 3-27 winning percentage is .100 and that is the lowest in league history (based on a minimum of 30 games played).


The Hawks try to snap a three-game losing streak. The Raptors are looking to snap a six-game skid and still are searching for their first road victory.

Man, I wish I had NBA TV. Could someone Tivo this one for me?

sure, but I think I've seen this episode before.

After both teams figure out a way to lose, Donald Trump comes out, grabs a microphone and proclaims to both teams, "You're FIRED!"

Blowout. Pistons by 29. At any rate, no way Detroit loses this one.

Detroit 112
Knicks 83



Sure, I'll go for that...but I think it will be a little closer than you might think.

Pistons 110
Knicks 95

The game will unexplicably close until the 4th quarter.

I hope LB doesn't go up into the stands when someone throws a diaper at him.

I also think there will be a smattering of Boos for Larry but the cheers will drown them out. (I think that's a good thing).

how many games have you been to at the palace? i've been to quite a few and the fans like to boo. you know how much chris webber got booed when we played the 76ers opening night? quite a bit.

the place will probably be too loud for you to hear cheers OR boos on TV, so the announcers will probably tell you. but i guarantee a LOT of people will be booing and you'll be able to hear it if you're in the palace.

how many games have you been to at the palace? i've been to quite a few and the fans like to boo. you know how much chris webber got booed when we played the 76ers opening night? quite a bit.

the place will probably be too loud for you to hear cheers OR boos on TV, so the announcers will probably tell you. but i guarantee a LOT of people will be booing and you'll be able to hear it if you're in the palace.

I've been to about 200 games at the Palace, although none in the past few years.

I said the cheers "will drown them out". What I meant to get across was that I am guessing there will be many more cheers than boos, and that the cheers will predominate (I did not intend to imply that no boos whatsoever would be heard in the arena).

I think Ben should be resting up. Let someone else start and if need be, he can coe off the bench. He needs to rest his foot and this is not a critical game.

Catch it, my bruddahs

Catch it, my bruddahs

Man...that guy. How can he say he didn't get what he wanted? I can't stand him and his blasted pity parties.

Thanks for the heads up, Bruddah man. Great interview.

Man...that guy. How can he say he didn't get what he wanted? I can't stand him and his blasted pity parties.

Thanks for the heads up, Bruddah man. Great interview.
He is something else, ol' sith lord one...My stomach is in knotts! I needed a Hieneken just to relax...come onnnnnn, gametime!

Sure, a lot of attention will be at the Palace tonight, but I would bet most NBA fans will be glued to the game featuring Toronto at Atlanta.

The Hawks are 2-12. The Raptors are 1-15. The combined 3-27 winning percentage is .100 and that is the lowest in league history (based on a minimum of 30 games played).


The Hawks try to snap a three-game losing streak. The Raptors are looking to snap a six-game skid and still are searching for their first road victory.

Man, I wish I had NBA TV. Could someone Tivo this one for me?

Interesting. The announcers have labled Salim Stoudamire the "mini microwave" drawing parallels to Vinnie Johnson in a video montage they ran during the game. Apparently Salim has a penchant for putting up solid streaky numbers in a short period of time. Pretty cool!

Scottie Pippin thinks the Knicks will play well because the pressure will be off them with the focus on Brown. Does that mean he thinks the entire squad won't come down with MIGRAINES when they play Detroit? He would know best. :laugh:

Brown looks like he is gonna mess on himself.

Yep, I got the game. WTF is it in Black & White? Only in Idaho. :ohwell:

Classy move by Isiah and Pistons starters.

Isiah standing with Brown during Larry's introduction. (mixed reactions boos and cheers)

Pistons starters hugging Brown and his assistants before tipoff.

We have the classiest team in the league.

Classy move by Isiah and Pistons starters.

Isiah standing with Brown during Larry's introduction. (mixed reactions boos and cheers)

Pistons starters hugging Brown and his assistants before tipoff.

We have the classiest team in the league.
just happy 2 get it over with...

Would LB still be here if that last qtr against SA had gone the other way?

food4thot

Would LB still be here if that last qtr against SA had gone the other way?

food4thot and the off season would have been much worse, my bruddah

It looks like we are watching them play and not defending. Marbury is hot we need to stop him.

This would be Linsdey time.

if the espn announcers would actually talk about the game (not that they'd say anything intelligent, but that whole first quarter was about lb -- enough).

gave up 28 in the first! and where are the boards!?! 16-7 we're down after one... hope we get a bit more active here on defense and on the boards...y'all think ben is 100 %? doesn't seem like it

if the espn announcers would actually talk about the game (not that they'd say anything intelligent, but that whole first quarter was about lb -- enough).

gave up 28 in the first! and where are the boards!?! 16-7 we're down after one... hope we get a bit more active here on defense and on the boards...y'all think ben is 100 %? doesn't seem like it
that's what happens when u worry about running out too much

Saw a few too many drives from near the top of the key all the way to the hoop. The Knickerbockers are way more intense so far. Here comes the bench to get us back in the game. :ohwell:

geesh...

Channing almost dunked Darko out the league.

That was almost embarassing. :laugh:

Darko sure showed LB! :laugh: I guess we need to start running the offense through him.

Could have at least 6 point in the paint but could not finish. Does he think LB is going to say somthing to him?:laugh:

...darko aint bleep and he aint never gonna be bleep. back to the 12 hole, punk!

Walton's such a suck-%%%, waffling, flip-flopper...I don't know how he still has a gig.

What a dips%%%!

:deadhorse

...darko aint bleep and he aint never gonna be bleep. back to the 12 hole, punk!

You beat me to it! Darko suxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Rip sure looks good though!

to listen to.

Davis in for Rasheed. Flip just realized what we are saying about Darko. It about time

I wonder what it will be tonight, he had a solid first half. Arroyo did some good things, too. I hate seeing my Pistons giving up 59 and getting outworked on the boards. :frusty: As crappy as Darko was, I did see some intensity out there from him, just no control. Hey, I'm looking for something - anything - to praise.

Guys, I'm dyslexic (plus I prolly can't spell it). I meant to say Pistons by 03 points NOT 30. :redface::redface::redface:

OK, I didn't expect this kind of performance by the Knicks. But we still win by 10 -12 points. :nod:

very disappointed d-wise, but knicks will cool off. What's the big deal about this number retired on the court stuff?

As bad as Walton is, Pippen is almost as bad. The guy has the personality of a floor mat. Mute, please.

how bout mo williams hitting his 2nd 3pt game winner of the season!

Don't tell me they "got hot" tonight.

Was Darko that bad?

Don't tell me they "got hot" tonight.

Was Darko that bad?
yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As bad as Walton is, Pippen is almost as bad. The guy has the personality of a floor mat. Mute, please.

At least he speaks intelligently & consistently...I like him and would take him over BW any day.

At least he speaks intelligently & consistently

And in a monotone :nod:

Perhaps you're right. Intelligence over buffonery is always preferred. I can just imagine Bill doing the commentary on Christmas morning. "This coffee is outstanding, honey. It might be the most dominant java in the world. Grab me a present from underneath the tree. Oh, thanks. This wrapping paper might be the most impressive decoration I've ever seen. Wow, this is a great present. It's a history of the UCLA hoops program. And look, I'm on the cover. I was the most dominant center in Bruins history."

i'm not sure I got your point :confused:

....only 2 freeking shots and a rebound,,,KG NEVER no shows!!My bruddahs!

The next example of leadership he displays will be his first.

And in a monotone :nod:

Perhaps you're right. Intelligence over buffonery is always preferred. I can just imagine Bill doing the commentary on Christmas morning. "This coffee is outstanding, honey. It might be the most dominant java in the world. Grab me a present from underneath the tree. Oh, thanks. This wrapping paper might be the most impressive decoration I've ever seen. Wow, this is a great present. It's a history of the UCLA hoops program. And look, I'm on the cover. I was the most dominant center in Bruins history."

lmao! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

so true...so true!

Wow, talk about turning it up. Does anyone remember who Arroyo torched in the Olympics? Was it Marbury?

This is easily Arroyo's best game.

I'm very impressed with how he has ran the team in Billups absence. Billups will be completely rested for the 4th quarter. I think Arroyo's rebound save followed by drawing an offensive foul tells it all. Excellent effort and performance.

Too bad Darko hasn't shown up. Not looking good.

Not looking good at all for our Serbian.

Maybe when we go up by 20 there will be a Darko siting.

the offense in the first half.... well they remembered to bring that solid D in the 3rd... i can just imagine walton drooling over the d in the 3rd after talking about our lack of effort in the 1st half...

almost makes me glad to be stuck in scotland and listening to the game over the old internet

And in a monotone :nod:

Perhaps you're right. Intelligence over buffonery is always preferred. I can just imagine Bill doing the commentary on Christmas morning. "This coffee is outstanding, honey. It might be the most dominant java in the world. Grab me a present from underneath the tree. Oh, thanks. This wrapping paper might be the most impressive decoration I've ever seen. Wow, this is a great present. It's a history of the UCLA hoops program. And look, I'm on the cover. I was the most dominant center in Bruins history."

lol! Walton's bright tonal inflections make every butt-kissing word out of his mouth seem all-the-more stupid. His commentary has the passion of John Madden combined with the thought processes of Matt Millen & William Clay Ford.

Kill me...

Have you seen these players?

Carlos Delfino
Darko Milicic
Jason Maxiell

Are Flip and Larry related?? I don't see much of a difference between the way the two "use" our bench. (And I use that term as loosely as DMC holds onto rebounds).

Yet another game with Tay over 40 minutes.

GET THE BENCH INVOLVED!!!!! :frusty:

why did the pistons just stop trying in the 4th it was like they did not want to blow them away. we were up by like 15 and the starters never came out but they just stopped attacking. i was hoping to see some bench play late but they never got in. we had 3 or 4 possesions in a row where we forced it down to dyess and it was a turnover everytime. rip was on fire and we stopped giving him the ball he could have hit 50 if we had kept going to him. I am not dissapointed in the win but man we could have just destroyed them and didnt. Like i said maybe it was not to disrespect lb but wow we could have won by 20-25 not 8

Darko for Channing Frye anyone?

Darko for Channing Frye anyone?

LOL! I'm sure LB is leaning on Isiah hard for that one!

Darko for Channing Frye anyone?

This was a good test to see how Darko would play under pressure. It was pressure for him since everyone knew how much he wanted to impress LB.

He failed. I would give that effort an F-. That game merits entry into the hall of shame. It was like watching a comic strip with Darko as the punchline. He did not have a clue out there just like LB used to say. In 5 mins of court time he got burned in every way imaginable. Coaches would be well advised to keep that footage of what not to do.

Maybe We are expecting too much !
We did win and we are 12-2.
We play so well some times we look really bad other times.:doh:

But I totally AGREE. I'm UPSET!:frusty:
Maybee we have a coaching problem - one who is afraid to lose !!
It is so easy to use the best starting 5 , in the game, for 48 mins.

The boys in the 4th were playing so as to make the decision to bring in reserves that much easier, maybeee on purpose.:wink:
We won and beleive me the reserves would have played better, in the 4th. !
Lesson to be learned ??!?
Maybee Coach . Think about IT. Please develope your BENCH. Even if it means a few more losses during the season. If you don't we won't make it out of the EAST.

Darko for Channing Frye anyone?

Darko for anyone, anyone?

Boy, Sheed put up the ultimate whiff tonight. He had the early three and that was it. I actually liked the way the Knicks DIDN'T quit. LB's "let's play each possession one at a time" won't work against an experienced team like Detroit, but I don't think his guys quit at all. Was surprised to see Delfino even bother with the LB hug. Wonder if Dunko said anything to him. :confused: I really like Crawford's offensive explosion. Imagine him playing alongside Arroyo. Then Detroit would have something. McDyess showed visions of reclaiming that velvety touch.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=Av8Ce29GZv54_8Vsy_9F5bM5nYcB?gid=200512 0208


Funny quip by Flip at the end.

This was a good test to see how Darko would play under pressure. It was pressure for him since everyone knew how much he wanted to impress LB.

He failed. I would give that effort an F-. That game merits entry into the hall of shame. It was like watching a comic strip with Darko as the punchline. He did not have a clue out there just like LB used to say. In 5 mins of court time he got burned in every way imaginable. Coaches would be well advised to keep that footage of what not to do.

Give it up. Your lack of class is showing.

Re: LB. Looks like he might meet some modest expectations in NY this year

Re: Starbury, this guy is so talented and yet I cannot stand watching him play.

Re: Channing Frye, TOLD YA SO (see first post)

Re: Darko, and this is new?

Re: Hugs, I'm pretty sure the Pistons mandated hugs to set an example for the fans. If not, it would be terribly ironic that the team has that much more class than the boo birds.

Re: Sheed, I don't think he whiffed. 3 blocks, 2 steals to go with 6 fouls on Hamilton's night to shine and with the increased production of Tay. I mean, his fantasy owner has to be ticked, but I thought Sheed did what he had to do. Like he almost always does.

Re: JKP - Starters. Yeah, I posted that a day or so ago and got some hassles. If the Ps have the best starting 5, and you play them a lot, you are going to win games. Not to discount Flip, but he is leaning very heavily on the best backcourt in the East, and possibly the best front court as well.

Re: Arroyo, the statline doesn't tell the whole story of how he played.

Re: Dice & Evans. Decent effort tonight.

Re: Knicks, I meant to post that the Knicks had the 3rd best record in the East coming into tonight based on the last 10 games. This was a good win over a potential 8th seed team.

GO PISTONS!

Have you seen these players?

Carlos Delfino
Darko Milicic
Jason Maxiell

Are Flip and Larry related?? I don't see much of a difference between the way the two "use" our bench. (And I use that term as loosely as DMC holds onto rebounds).

Yet another game with Tay over 40 minutes.

GET THE BENCH INVOLVED!!!!! :frusty:

i see one difference. flip puts the bench in during meaningful minutes and still wins the game. this is something larry didn't do. i think darko is getting some valuable experience out there playing when the game is still on the line.

i think delfino should be playing more. evans is doing ok but it's time to give delfino a shot. mcdyess and arroyo played well for the bench they may just be rounding into shape.

nice cheap shot at darko.

Darko for Channing Frye anyone?

Darko for a second chance at the #2 overall pick? Can we return him??? I hope Joe D. kept the receipt.

Are there "take backs" in the NBA (I mean besides Boozer's "verbal agreement" with the Cavs).

Darko is turning out to be a 3 season old Holiday Fruitcake. Is it Pollitically Correct to re-gift him?

:confused:

i see one difference. flip puts the bench in during meaningful minutes and still wins the game. this is something larry didn't do. i think darko is getting some valuable experience out there playing when the game is still on the line.

i think delfino should be playing more. evans is doing ok but it's time to give delfino a shot. mcdyess and arroyo played well for the bench they may just be rounding into shape.

nice cheap shot at darko.

Substitute "the bench" for "Arroyo and Dice" and "meaningful minutes" for "3-5 first half minutes or 4-8 2nd half minutes when we're up or down by more than 30" and I'd agree with you 100%. :laugh:

Flip Brown has got to get his ENTIRE bench going! :frusty:
(minus Grandpa Davis, Acker and Baby AJ)

This is sad. We're talking about Darko when he does nothing and it was Rip's night setting a new career high.

40 Points people.

This is sad. We're talking about Darko when he does nothing and it was Rip's night setting a new career high.

40 Points people.

Rip had a great night, no question about it.

But we're talking about Darko because he did nothing, not inspite of it.

I was not aware that was a career high for him. Three positives in that game Rip, Billups ( assists and defense on Marbury ), Tay ( stepping up on the glass).

Knicks were not as bad as I thought they would be. Isiah really pulled out some decent trades.

Buddafan - you got me pegged. Your evaluation of me is uncanny.

Fact is Darko is wasting a lot of resources

This is sad. We're talking about Darko when he does nothing and it was Rip's night setting a new career high.

40 Points people.

I believe Rip's career high is 44. Set against Cleveland a couple of years ago, but still an awesome shooting display.

Oops. MY BAD. Read the wrong column at NBA.com. :doh: :redface:

Rip scored a season high 40 points people!

Rip had a great night, no question about it.

But we're talking about Darko because he did nothing, not inspite of it.
Jammer, as I wrote, and this is new?

:rolleyes:

Darko will lose his spot in the rotation to Dale Davis in short order if he keeps playing this way.

i see one difference. flip puts the bench in during meaningful minutes and still wins the game. this is something larry didn't do. i think darko is getting some valuable experience out there playing when the game is still on the line.




Yep, Flip puts him in and Flip is rewarded with a sad sack performance. Maybe Larry was right all along.

Valuable experience? Darko is only getting valuable experience if he chooses to be a brick layer when he grows up.

I'm with Flip. Let Darko earn his time by doing well in garbage time. He doesn't deserve to be in there right now if tonights performance is any indication of what we can expect from him.

Darko needs to show me something before I complain any more about his lack of playing time. He had his chance.

That Cleveland game from a couple of years ago was quite something for Rip. He was on fire from the field and from the line -- he even hit his lone trey attempt -- and tossed in 7 boards and 5 dimes.

Here's the boxscore (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=231128008)

This is sad. We're talking about Darko when he does nothing and it was Rip's night setting a new career high.

40 Points people.

Good point, my friend.

GO RIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Darko will lose his spot in the rotation to Dale Davis in short order if he keeps playing this way.

Even Amir Johnson would have done better.

This was the LB game. The Pistons knew from the get go they would get the W. So, no defense in the first half. Turn it on in the third and when the blow out is there, ease off out of respect for Larry. The starters respected Larry tonight. And I am very proud of them. I had problems with Larry's offense but I am proud that he was a Piston coach. Seeing everyone together was like watching a surreal movie scene. Tay and Rip were awesome and need to be kept fresh. Are you there Joe? Please keep them fresh. Sheed does many little things and we didn't need more tonight. Ok, Lee and others, Arroyo made some nice plays and he made some bonehead plays. I thought he looked good at times, LA Sam. But he is liable for a turnover at any time. Can we afford this in a big game? Still, not bad. Darko was bad. Have to call it like it is. Yes, he needs the experience but he is definitely not ready for playoff prime time. Evans showed some spark with the tip and I like the fact he can hit a three. Lee, he was not as bad as you painted him in your summary. No, he is not a ball handler but he can be plugged in to do certain things. He is a role player. The unit as a whole was bad. Maybe they are not a good match. Overall, the first team can really move the ball on offense--that third quarter was a quarter we rarely had last year. This is a good sign Piston fans and so is our record.

Jammer, as I wrote, and this is new?

:rolleyes:

Nope, not new at all.

I guess I'm still holding out hope that Darko will roll out of bed one day soon and a light bulb (one of the new high efficiency compact florescent ones) will go off in his head and he'll realize that he needs to be more aggressive and make the most of his limited opportunities - garbage time or not.

Nope, not new at all.

I guess I'm still holding out hope that Darko will roll out of bed one day soon and a light bulb (one of the new high efficiency compact florescent ones) will go off in his head and he'll realize that he needs to be more aggressive and make the most of his limited opportunities - garbage time or not.
Darko is like Joe D signed up for Direct Energy and locked in his hydro cost for 4 years. That "market increase" never arrived...

played as if LB was still coaching him and couldn't show LB that his game has progressed. Now is it time for all of you to realize that maybe we should cut our losses and trade him to the highest bidder:nod:. If he can't contribute by the trading deadline, dump him on some team that will play him everyday and we get someone who can give us 15 and 8 off the bench every night

Darko is like Joe D signed up for Direct Energy and locked in his hydro cost for 4 years. That "market increase" never arrived...

Hahaha, great analogy. I've always been hesitant to lock in to those things.

The thing I love about Joe D. is that he already recognizes that our bench isn't getting it done and won't hesitate to make a move if need be.

I'm confident that either a) our current bench will step it up as the season progress or b) Joe D. will make a move or two by the trade deadline to shore up our bench.

Joe knows we have to be deeper if we have any chance of reclaiming the Championship - especially against a deep team like the Spurs, and made even more important if we have another long road to the finals through Miami and/or Indy.

I don't know if Joe is ready to give up on DMC this year unless we could put a package together to get someone like KG. But I don't think anyone outside of our starting 5 should be buying any real estate in the detroit area any time soon.

post game stuff updated in the second post of this thread.

Great games from our starters except Sheed, man he mailed this one in tonight. Rip and Tay had great games but Ben had an extremely good game, quiet as kept.

Arroyo was good tonight, very impressive. Dyess may have finally turned the corner in the 2nd half, as he hit a few J's tonight......SWWEEEEET.

This bench needs an aggressive player at the wing position, I mean a cat that will attack with no conscience, like a Jamal Crawford, we could even sacrifice some defense for this type of player, dare I say........Call Spree:confused:??!!??

Dale Davis is going to be a saving grace come playoff time,and will make Joe look like a genius.

Right now I would trade DMC+Delfino for Al Harrington and sign Spree. We won't be able to afford DMC on the open market with Ben's new contract,Tay's new contract, & Chauncey opting out of his last year, meaning we'll have to pay him a year sooner. By then maybe JMax andAJ will start to bring it and Tay and Rip will still be the primary scorers.

This bench needs an aggressive player at the wing position, I mean a cat that will attack with no conscience, like a Jamal Crawford, we could even sacrifice some defense for this type of player, dare I say........Call Spree:confused:??!!??

Dale Davis is going to be a saving grace come playoff time,and will make Joe look like a genius.

Right now I would trade DMC+Delfino for Al Harrington and sign Spree. We won't be able to afford DMC on the open market with Ben's new contract,Tay's new contract, & Chauncey opting out of his last year, meaning we'll have to pay him a year sooner. By then maybe JMax andAJ will start to bring it and Tay and Rip will still be the primary scorers.

KGREG, I agree that some wild man off the bench like Spree :eyebrows: would be a lift to this "who's going to step it up bench".:frusty: Right now, we are winging it with a bench that has no identity because they have yet to show that they can win a game for us. Can somebody go back and check the box scores to see if our bench has scored more than 25 points in any game this season. :confused:

Adding Harrington and Spree could create some ego problems and headaches, but if Spree is still watching games from home in February and Harrington's team is still in the cellar, then I say go for it as both should be hungry and frustrated enough to play by the rules and not disrupt the chemistry. I can see 25-30 points a night from them where is I am willing to bet anyone in this forum that we won't see more than 15 a night from Darko and Delfino combined the rest of the season if that many.!:doh:

Yep, Flip puts him in and Flip is rewarded with a sad sack performance. Maybe Larry was right all along.

Valuable experience? Darko is only getting valuable experience if he chooses to be a brick layer when he grows up.

I'm with Flip. Let Darko earn his time by doing well in garbage time. He doesn't deserve to be in there right now if tonights performance is any indication of what we can expect from him.

Darko needs to show me something before I complain any more about his lack of playing time. He had his chance.

tonight is just a bad game for darko. with any player just learning the nba game he will have good games and he will have bad games. he shouldn't get shipped out of town after every bad game. what about the game when he had about 4 blocks in a few minutes. how come you didn't take that as an indication of what to expect from him. darko is basically a rookie he has no game time experience to speak of. look at ben gordon he sucked at first for chicago but he found his way. darko is trying to find his way 5 minutes at a time.

darko isn't complaining about lack of playing time. he was complaining about when he is playing. flip is proving that playing darko doesn't lose you any games. flip should notice as darko's playing time went down his performance went down. darko should be getting consistent minutes like he was in the preseason if flip expects consistent results.

I say we trade Darko and CD for Josh Smith and Josh Childress. Atlanta is dumb enough to make that move.

observations from being at the game...

the boo birds were the first ones to see larry, then there were claps, and overall it was about 50/50. a lot of people gave larry a standing ovation when the players went over and hugged him. unfortunately he didn't do his signature 1 or 2-handed arm flick of digust when unhappy with a refs call...was waiting all game for that. but his post-game press conference had a lot of 'specials' and 'neat' and 'great' and 'huge' words thrown in there which made up for it.

the crowd was DEAD, moreso than most of the regular season games i've gone to. i think a lot of people got tickets who aren't huge fans, just wanted to be there because it was supposed to be a big deal. people weren't even making noise when the knicks were FT-shooting, which is rare. the crowd made some noise toward the end of the 3rd (btw WOW holding the knicks to 8 points), but the 4th started and you could hear a pin drop. when the knicks started coming back...normally that's fan time to give the team a boost, but instead people were heading for the exits. i truly believe if the crowd stayed into it a little longer that we wouldn't have given up that lead.

as for the game...

- darko didn't look very good but wasn't given much of a chance.
- i dunno why delfino is not given a shot, i can understand why flip likes TP on the floor so much but c'mon let's see what delfino can do.
- marbury thinks he's allen iverson with driving the lane, etc., but clearly he's not.
- channing frye is a BIG man, and he's got some game. he got a lot of offensive rebounds that ben normally would have gotten, although i will say the sore legs were noticeable for ben.
- as soon as mcdyess drove the lane (didn't shoot, passed the ball), he hit 2 jumpers in a row. he should keep that trend up of going to the hole first.
- dale davis is going to be huge come playoff time. when he was in he showed the knicks' rookie bigs what it's all about, preventing 4 straight consecutive shots from going in in the span of about 20 seconds.
- one of the refs was absolutely atrocious tonight; young kid lookin like he wanted to be the star of the floor
- i wanna see jmax play in these situations, against the newer players in the league, and show what he's made of.
- go pistons!!!!

also, the isiah tribute stuff was really somethin, awesome to be a part of. and carlos arroyo did very well today, i remember tellin my friend in the 3rd/4th that i hadn't even noticed any dropoff w/out chauncey running the point. he didn't get any friendly calls from the officials though lol.

Can somebody go back and check the box scores to see if our bench has scored more than 25 points in any game this season.
It's happened three times. Against Philly the bench scored 29. Against the Raps the bench scored 42 (!) and against the Nuggets, 43!

The boxscores:

76ers boxscore (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251102008)

Raptors boxscore (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251105008)

Nuggets boxscore (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251123008)

If you're curious, the most futile effort by our bench was against the Nets, when they managed all of 6 points. :P

The evidence:

Nets boxscore (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251130017)

The Knicks had a lb scoring drought in the 3rd that or the piston d showed up i can’t decide which but holding the Knicks to 8 points in the 3rd quarter was big. I know I should be happy as hell with how they shut them down but what happened to us in the 4th. We were up by 19 and the only sub that went in was Dyess for sheed and we blew that lead down to what 6 or less. 6 turnovers or Billups that is not like him at all and 3 came in the 4th I don’t know why other bench guys did not get in with that kind of lead imo that’s messed up but to blow that kind of lead sucked. I think the Pistons backed off so they would not make lb look bad, but why?
I bet Ben was pissed that the rook Ariza dunked on him the Knicks were acting like they won the game after that. If Ben is healthy I say he throws it back in the rooks face. 12-2 great start and 40 for rip he might not make the all-star team but he deserves it if he keeps playing at this level.

This bench needs an aggressive player at the wing position, I mean a cat that will attack with no conscience, like a Jamal Crawford, we could even sacrifice some defense for this type of player, dare I say........Call Spree:confused:??!!??

Dale Davis is going to be a saving grace come playoff time,and will make Joe look like a genius.



I hate Spree, but I was thinking the same thing. That tells you how concerned about the bench I am right now. Maybe that will change with time.

I hope you're right about Davis.

Right now I would trade DMC+Delfino for Al Harrington and sign Spree. We won't be able to afford DMC on the open market with Ben's new contract,Tay's new contract, & Chauncey opting out of his last year, meaning we'll have to pay him a year sooner. By then maybe JMax andAJ will start to bring it and Tay and Rip will still be the primary scorers.

How about for Mike James and Jalen Rose??

tonight is just a bad game for darko. with any player just learning the nba game he will have good games and he will have bad games. he shouldn't get shipped out of town after every bad game. what about the game when he had about 4 blocks in a few minutes. how come you didn't take that as an indication of what to expect from him. darko is basically a rookie he has no game time experience to speak of. look at ben gordon he sucked at first for chicago but he found his way. darko is trying to find his way 5 minutes at a time.

darko isn't complaining about lack of playing time. he was complaining about when he is playing. flip is proving that playing darko doesn't lose you any games. flip should notice as darko's playing time went down his performance went down. darko should be getting consistent minutes like he was in the preseason if flip expects consistent results.

Are you Darko's agent? The guy sucked last night and was one of the causes of a big Knick run. It is outterly embrassing to see this guy cowarding away from Channing Frye as he tried to posterize him. Darko is bigger and stronger and he looked like a wet noodle.
Your reasoning about Darko getting consistent minutes is flawed do to the fact that in the pro game players are inserted into the line up based on match ups.Some guys get more minutes and some get less depending on the skill level of the other team especially if you are a bench player. Why would you put Darko in the game to get schooled and embrassed? Darko does not run the team so he does not get to choose when he plays or how long he plays. He is a player so he should come to play when ever his number is called whether it is garbage time or not. The guy needs to be shipped out of town to an expansion club or a losing team that can let him play 40 mins a game so he can develop. We are doing him a diservice keeping him and the longer we do the less value we are going to get for him.

Are you Darko's agent? The guy sucked last night and was one of the causes of a big Knick run. It is outterly embrassing to see this guy cowarding away from Channing Frye as he tried to posterize him. Darko is bigger and stronger and he looked like a wet noodle.
Your reasoning about Darko getting consistent minutes is flawed do to the fact that in the pro game players are inserted into the line up based on match ups.Some guys get more minutes and some get less depending on the skill level of the other team especially if you are a bench player. Why would you put Darko in the game to get schooled and embrassed? Darko does not run the team so he does not get to choose when he plays or how long he plays. He is a player so he should come to play when ever his number is called whether it is garbage time or not. The guy needs to be shipped out of town to an expansion club or a losing team that can let him play 40 mins a game so he can develop. We are doing him a diservice keeping him and the longer we do the less value we are going to get for him.

i could tell very much that darko would of done a lot better if lb wasn't on the sidelines. couldn't anyone else teall that? normally he'd be all over trying to block shots, set picks. and we saw in the preseason he's good at free-throws, and he missed them badly last night plus he missed an esy tip in. one thing good i saw was that dice hit 2 very confident jumpers in the second half. very good sign he just might lead this bench to start doing better.

12-2. Larry Brown's team goes to 5-10. Sounds good to me.

Rip was fantastic plus. Last game, with 30 scored, he was fantastic. 40 is just indesribably good. And two games like this in a row. Wow. Hit another 3. Made about 12 of 13 at the line. Coming off his screens and hitting. Wow and double wow. Best of all he had 30 going into the 4th quarter and get 10 more when it really counts.
Tay had an impressive double double, with 19 points and 10 rebounds. I had just noted today (in a different forum) that Tay's rebounding was down 25% so far this year. Hope this is a trend.

CB had 11 assists, and 11 points. I think I heard Blaha say that both he and and another player had this same stat (Marbury I guess.) Fitting as they enshrined Zeke on the Palace floor.

Ben stepped up and hit 2 for 2 at the stripe, right after Sheed had missed both of his to cap off a pretty much nothing performance from him tonight. Ben got fouled going for the rebound. Ben even hit a jumper.

Our bench did great, as long as Evans was not in the game. With Evans in the game, we were minus 15. Without Evans, Arroyo and Dyess were in there early in the 3rd pretty much putting this game away. But Evans came back into the game to start the 4th. And our defensive rotations completely stopped. The flow of our offense completely stopped. Hey, don't shoot the messenger. Mo is now minus 28 in the last two games combined, while the bench is otherwise heavily plus, about a point a minute in fact.

Arroyo hit a couple of outside shots and impressively finished a drive in with a reverse layup. And this is against there bigs, challenging them to stop him. And note, we only gave NY 8 points the whole 3rd quarter. With Arroyo and Dyess in, our defense held just fine.

Darko did not do much. Got beat by a couple of their bigs. Mistimed a tap in just a bit. Almost got another tap in to go, but missed that too. And missed his free throws. But at least he was there at the basket you notice. Give him time. And no, don't try to blame Evan's bad numbers on Darko. Evans was negative more without Darko than with Darko. Sorry Evans fans, thats the facts. Despite Evans nailing that triple, and getting an offensive rebound putback, he had a very poor game tonight.

Dyess hit a couple more shots, and once drove in and found Ben for an easy two points. Good job Dyess. Dale Davis got in the game briefly, did not do much of anything really.

With our current rebounding problems going on, I am more in favor of using Maxiell at backup small forward than ever. Yes, Ben is still probably hurting some from the other night, but it ain't all him. We are giving up way too many offensive rebounds and not getting enough ourselves.

No Delfino again tonight. I am still going to stick with my theory that Flip is giving Evans every chance to improve his defensive rotations and ball handling. But man would I rather have seen Delfino tonight vs. Evans.

One more thought. About NBA experience vs. practice. As far as I know, neither Channing Frye nor Jerome James are invited to our practices so that Darko can get practice guarding these guys. Thats why he needs to play. I am not worried at all that these guys each scored on Darko the one time each. Give Darko more of that. He needs the experience.</B></B>

i could tell very much that darko would of done a lot better if lb wasn't on the sidelines. couldn't anyone else teall that? normally he'd be all over trying to block shots, set picks. and we saw in the preseason he's good at free-throws, and he missed them badly last night plus he missed an esy tip in. one thing good i saw was that dice hit 2 very confident jumpers in the second half. very good sign he just might lead this bench to start doing better.

OMG...Come on, man. You sound like the guy who blamed Larry Brown for Darko having a bad game in Europe this summer. At some point people need to look at what Darko is doing and hold him responsible for what he does rather than blaming others.

Darko does well in practice too. But when 20,000 people watch him he looks lost and is usually an embarrassment. It wasn't Larry per se...it is the fact that this kid cannot seem to play when any type of real crowd watches him. That's part of being a pro. Darko ain't cutting it.

Time to cut their losses, if possible, IMO.

In your post, when discussing Darko, all you talk about is "he ALMOST did this...he ALMOST did that". You sure cut him lots of slack. You say he didn't do much...that is a vast understatement...He did TERRIBLE.

I guess using that type of reasoning we can say Hunter almost scored 20 points per game against the Spurs last summer. He sure took lots of shots that ALMOST went in...just barely catching the outside of the rim. Just practice is all he needs. Just practice.

The Knicks had a lb scoring drought in the 3rd that or the piston d showed up i can’t decide which but holding the Knicks to 8 points in the 3rd quarter was big. I know I should be happy as hell with how they shut them down but what happened to us in the 4th. We were up by 19 and the only sub that went in was Dyess for sheed and we blew that lead down to what 6 or less. 6 turnovers or Billups that is not like him at all and 3 came in the 4th I don’t know why other bench guys did not get in with that kind of lead imo that’s messed up but to blow that kind of lead sucked. I think the Pistons backed off so they would not make lb look bad, but why?
I bet Ben was pissed that the rook Ariza dunked on him the Knicks were acting like they won the game after that. If Ben is healthy I say he throws it back in the rooks face. 12-2 great start and 40 for rip he might not make the all-star team but he deserves it if he keeps playing at this level.
To be exact, we got up 19 early in the 4th, with the same group of players who finished the 3rd. (Arroyo, Rip, Tay, Dyess, Ben.) At that point, Evans came into the game and all our momentum stopped cold. People can have what ever opinion they want concerning if this was any fault of Evans. Just keep track though. For this game, our bench had three clear periods they played. 1) With Evans doing very badly. 2)No Evans and doing great 3)With Evans again and doing very badly. This pattern has held the last two games big time. Lets see if it continues, and I will continue to give my theories of what the problem is.

OMG...Come on, man. You sound like the guy who blamed Larry Brown for Darko having a bad game in Europe this summer. At some point people need to look at what Darko is doing and hold him responsible for what he does rather than blaming others.

Darko does well in practice too. But when 20,000 people watch him he looks lost and is usually an embarrassment. It wasn't Larry per se...it is the fact that this kid cannot seem to play when any type of real crowd watches him. That's part of being a pro. Darko ain't cutting it.

Time to cut their losses, if possible, IMO.

just reread my post and i see that it sounds like that, but what i really meant is that darko was a little bit shaky out there because lb was there. i'm not blaming it on larry. let's see if he does good against the bulls today.

It was discouraging to Darko supporters like me to see Davis come in for the few minutes he did. It's becoming a trend. Darko gets 5. Davis gets in the rest of the game. Is flip trying to show darko that you CAN get up off the bench and play even if its just a short time. :confused:



Put in Delfino flip!

To be exact, we got up 19 early in the 4th, with the same group of players who finished the 3rd. (Arroyo, Rip, Tay, Dyess, Ben.) At that point, Evans came into the game and all our momentum stopped cold. People can have what ever opinion they want concerning if this was any fault of Evans.
I only was able to listen to the game but I thought it was the TO's that carlos then Chancey made that swung the momentum.

How about for Mike James and Jalen Rose??
We would need to come up with a lot of salary to send back.

Rose + James is close to 18 million I think. You ain't getting those guys for Dos Los.

In the 4th we were up by 14 when we pulled mo and we let that lead slip away if you don’t believe me here is a recap of play by play scroll down to the 4th and at 8:13 Evans is replaced by Hamilton. http://scores.nba.com/games/20051202/NYKDET/PlayByPlayPrint.html


Starting with 3:44 in the 1st mo came in with the score 19-16 helped extend the lead up to 23-18 and at 1:52 sheed turned the ball over then fouled and Dyess came in played tight through the rest but were down 28-26. At the start of the 2nd we had ca rip mo Dyess and Darko on the court and half way through they started to put starters back in with the score 44-37 Knicks mo had 7 points when he came out of the game so you cant say the lack of production was on him we had our whole bench out on the court except for rip.
Mo is just becomeing a victim in your posts as of late the 4th melt down had less to do with mo and more to do with larry then anything he had an ok night going 3-4 from the feild 1 board 1 steal 1 assist and 2 blocks 7 points

So lets just say your recap is not as thorough as it could have been about mo's pt. you can not pin the 4th on him as he was on the bech when the magority of that lead was cut down to nothing

I'm finally giving up on Darko.

He'll be motivated against LB. He'd have done better if LB wasn't there. He needs playing time. He needs meaningful playing time. He needs meaningful playing time early. He needs time with the starters.

Too many planets have to line up for this guy to have a decent game. Way too many.

There are a lot of things I won't blame him for, notably the inability or unwillingness of the reserves to get him some low post touches. But after a while you just get tired of noticing that other rookies and scrubs can contribute while he's floundering out there. Real talent is obvious, even inescapable. It bursts out at the seams and shows itself. But Darko's flashes aren't getting brighter, and they aren't getting more frequent. Maybe in a town like Atlanta or Oklahoma City he'd get what he needs, but it just ain't happening here.

It reminds me of nothing so much as that old Warner Brothers cartoon where the guy finds a dancing frog who can sing, dance and do everything ... only to go broke when he flops as the curtain goes up.

But Evans came back into the game to start the 4th. And our defensive rotations completely stopped.

that's totally ridiculous...were you even watching the game? we had 3 straight turnovers that gave NY confidence and energy to try and make it a game, none of which were from evans.

you're so biased against the guy, when he didn't even play poorly yesterday. in 12 minutes he had 7 points on 3/4 shooting (including 1/1 from 3-point range), a rebound, assist, steal, and 2 blocks. one of his baskets he broke away from the defender for a wide open dunk.

maybe our bench wasn't *spectacular* yesterday but they shot 8-for-11...

just reread my post and i see that it sounds like that, but what i really meant is that darko was a little bit shaky out there because lb was there. i'm not blaming it on larry. let's see if he does good against the bulls today.
I gotcha. You were just making an "observation" and not a "commentary".

Still, it is a glaring weakness in Darko's makeup that he cannot play with particular people coaching OR watching him, or a certain amount of people observing. Some very good players choke when they get to the playoffs. Darko can't even perform in (relatively meaningless) early regular season games. I cannot imagine this guy ever being a clutch performer. He does NOT have Piston DNA, IMO.

I'm finally giving up on Darko.

He'll be motivated against LB. He'd have done better if LB wasn't there. He needs playing time. He needs meaningful playing time. He needs meaningful playing time early. He needs time with the starters.

Too many planets have to line up for this guy to have a decent game. Way too many.

There are a lot of things I won't blame him for, notably the inability or unwillingness of the reserves to get him some low post touches. But after a while you just get tired of noticing that other rookies and scrubs can contribute while he's floundering out there. Real talent is obvious, even inescapable. It bursts out at the seams and shows itself. But Darko's flashes aren't getting brighter, and they aren't getting more frequent. Maybe in a town like Atlanta or Oklahoma City he'd get what he needs, but it just ain't happening here.

It reminds me of nothing so much as that old Warner Brothers cartoon where the guy finds a dancing frog who can sing, dance and do everything ... only to go broke when he flops as the curtain goes up.
" Hello my baby, Hello my darling..." That's the song. Loved that cartoon.

I agree with you man, on all the Darko stuff. The planets aligning and all that. I'm done with him. Come to think of it, I dunno why I stuck with him this long. I finally got to see him for myself, yesterday and he is a JOKE!

that's totally ridiculous...were you even watching the game? we had 3 straight turnovers that gave NY confidence and energy to try and make it a game, none of which were from evans.

you're so biased against the guy, when he didn't even play poorly yesterday. in 12 minutes he had 7 points on 3/4 shooting (including 1/1 from 3-point range), a rebound, assist, steal, and 2 blocks. one of his baskets he broke away from the defender for a wide open dunk.

maybe our bench wasn't *spectacular* yesterday but they shot 8-for-11...
Evans doesn't get the benefit of "almosts" as Darko does. If Darko had played as well as Evans we would never hear the end of it from Lee and a couple others.

I agree he doesn't have Pistons DNA; he has "hawks" Dna. So let’s ship him and CD for Smith and Childress. Smith is explosive and Childress has Long TP type arms and could become a great defender. However, I must say...... I have some hope left for CD. Its time to work DD into the mix as our fourth big, and give JM a bone in the late second quarter. I listened to game online, and when they said Darko was flat footed and didn't even jump when the Knicks player grabbed a board I jumped off the Darko truck for the last time. The proposed trade would still keep our money free for Ben and CB.

If we had to get Spree which I would be very leery of.....How about we call the Hawks tell them to sign him for around 3.5 and we trade Darko for him? Would that work or would we need to wait for long deadlines? Anybody know?

If possible I'd prefer an unprotected 1st rounder within the next two or three years, period. Unjam the roster a little and maybe give Johnson or Acker a little PT.

In the 4th we were up by 14 when we pulled mo and we let that lead slip away if you don’t believe me here is a recap of play by play scroll down to the 4th and at 8:13 Evans is replaced by Hamilton. http://scores.nba.com/games/20051202/NYKDET/PlayByPlayPrint.html


Starting with 3:44 in the 1st mo came in with the score 19-16 helped extend the lead up to 23-18 and at 1:52 sheed turned the ball over then fouled and Dyess came in played tight through the rest but were down 28-26. At the start of the 2nd we had ca rip mo Dyess and Darko on the court and half way through they started to put starters back in with the score 44-37 Knicks mo had 7 points when he came out of the game so you cant say the lack of production was on him we had our whole bench out on the court except for rip.
Mo is just becomeing a victim in your posts as of late the 4th melt down had less to do with mo and more to do with larry then anything he had an ok night going 3-4 from the feild 1 board 1 steal 1 assist and 2 blocks 7 points

So lets just say your recap is not as thorough as it could have been about mo's pt. you can not pin the 4th on him as he was on the bech when the magority of that lead was cut down to nothing

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Lee, man you are trippin'.....again. lol!

Mo Evans did okay last night. The point guards tried to throw the game away in the 4th quarter. That pretty much sums up the collapse.

I agree that Evans has been off and on and I'm still trying to decide what I think of him (I think what I believe is that he's an adequate backup SG to spell Rip for 12-14 minutes per game), but last night was very definitely not his fault. It was primarily the PGs (10 TO's between them) that led to the run. He happened to be on the floor, but that wasn't his fault.

Arroyo and McDyess overall looked a bit better. They're certainly better off playing with some starters on the floor than throwing them out there with Evans and Darko all at once.

And Lee, I'm losing patience with Darko. You jump on Evans' case about everything but always let Darko by with just about anything. I've been very open-minded about letting him have a shot and was disappointed with LB's seeming inability to get him on the floor. But the point is that he contributes virtually nothing while he's out there. He has talent, no question about it. But I watched a less-talented player (Frye) last night totally outplay him after EARNING a spot in LB's rotation. Yes, he has college ball under his belt, but he also has a fire in him I haven't seen from Darko. Darko looks tentative and afraid every time he gets on the floor. That was understandable under LB, who got on him for breathing, but not under Flip, whose more laid-back style should be much more conducive to Darko's development.

Because of our situation (three, perhaps four bigs who are more NBA-ready than Darko) it has been necessary to "force-feed" him minutes that he has perhaps not earned. I understand that. But when given those minutes, he has to do something with them. And so far he hasn't.

It reminds me of nothing so much as that old Warner Brothers cartoon where the guy finds a dancing frog who can sing, dance and do everything ... only to go broke when he flops as the curtain goes up.

That is a great analogy of Darko. :laugh:

In the 4th we were up by 14 when we pulled mo and we let that lead slip away if you don’t believe me here is a recap of play by play scroll down to the 4th and at 8:13 Evans is replaced by Hamilton. http://scores.nba.com/games/20051202/NYKDET/PlayByPlayPrint.html


Starting with 3:44 in the 1st mo came in with the score 19-16 helped extend the lead up to 23-18 and at 1:52 sheed turned the ball over then fouled and Dyess came in played tight through the rest but were down 28-26. At the start of the 2nd we had ca rip mo Dyess and Darko on the court and half way through they started to put starters back in with the score 44-37 Knicks mo had 7 points when he came out of the game so you cant say the lack of production was on him we had our whole bench out on the court except for rip.
Mo is just becomeing a victim in your posts as of late the 4th melt down had less to do with mo and more to do with larry then anything he had an ok night going 3-4 from the feild 1 board 1 steal 1 assist and 2 blocks 7 points

So lets just say your recap is not as thorough as it could have been about mo's pt. you can not pin the 4th on him as he was on the bech when the magority of that lead was cut down to nothing

They lost 9 points of the lead, going from 14 up to just 5 up. But the same starters also did fantastic the first half or the 3rd quarter.

But what I am talking about is the bench. People want to make the general statement that our bench is doing pporly. I am trying to point out that our bench has been gaining a point per minute over the past two games as long as Evans is not in the game.

Your reporting of events is not all that. Yes, we started in that 1st quarter up 3. We went up 5 for a moment. But before Dyess came in, Evans was negative. And he was further negative when in with just Dyess. And further negative still when in with Arrroyo and Darko added to that. And another negative 5 in the 2nd half, where Darko never played. Darko was minus 4 for the game. Evans was minus 14.

The point guards turning the ball over is the immediate problem. But why were they turning the ball over? The way its suppose to work, is that a 2nd player is suppose to be supporting you bringing the ball up the floor. Watch a tape. You will see that Evans was nowhere to be seen as our points brought the ball up the floor.

Contrast this with the previous game. In that one, we let Mo Evans handle the ball several times, and it was a disaster. So this time, they said heck, lets just leave Mo out of that and see how it works. Did not work. You need two guards bringing the ball up.

One more time. Keep an eye on this. You don't want to believe it is Evans that is the problem. If it is not, then surely we will not lose an average of 14 points per game while he is in game after game, right? Lets see.

Since you are particularly fond of "48 minute stats", please tell us what the 48 minute stats would look like for a guy (Darko)who played 5 minutes with the following stat line:

FT: 0-2
FG: 0-0
Reb: 2
TO: 2
PF: 1

I know...I know.. he would have over 18 rebounds. Sign him up. Get this guy on the floor! Now! What in the heck are we waiting for?

Never mind that he would foul out in 30 minutes. Never mind that he would miss over 18 ft's without making even one. Never mind that he would give the ball to the other team almost 20 times. Let's just focus on the good stuff. He's a rebounding stud!

Let's just say "Darko didn't do much".


Evans 48 minute stats? Why bother. It's his fault we lost, right? But just for fun...

in 12 minutes he was:

FG: 3-4

3pt 1-1

reb:1
ast:1
st:1
to's: 0

total 7 points

Lemme see 48 minute stats = 28 points
4 three pointers
fg's 12-16
ast, st, reb's: 4 each
TO's= 0

Get that bum Evans outta here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now just stop it! You're fogging up lee's goggles! :mad:

and he's gonna need them for tonight's game recap!

Now just stop it! You're fogging up lee's goggles! :mad:

and he's gonna need them for tonight's game recap!

Do you mean the goggles with the rose colored lenses? :laugh:

Do you mean the goggles with the rose colored lenses? :laugh:

You know only the Darko side is rosy. The Evans side is opaque with a diagonal red slash thru it. :ohwell:

the starters blew the majority of that lead they were up 19 when he checked out they were up 14
screw the 2nd quarter where he scored 7 points while he was in the game i guess the fact that he scored more than sheed meens zero
the fault does not lie on him for the 4th read the play by play stats hell just the box score mo 0 turnovers ca 4 billups 6 rip 2 sheed 3 tay 1 darko 2 he had a good night the fact is that the rest of the bench chocked up when they were in the game look at the stats look at the play by play page i posted earlier he was not at fult for mistakeds others made.
For the most part i have to listen to the majority of games (no fsn and no local) so beleive me i watched last night and i did not see mo give away the lead it was starters from 8 minutes on thats why it did not make sense either they got tired or they did not want to blow away lb but they were on the court again look at the play by play

http://scores.nba.com/games/20051202/NYKDET/PlayByPlayPrint.html

the starters blew the majority of that lead they were up 19 when he checked out they were up 14
screw the 2nd quarter where he scored 7 points while he was in the game i guess the fact that he scored more than sheed meens zero
the fault does not lie on him for the 4th read the play by play stats hell just the box score mo 0 turnovers ca 4 billups 6 rip 2 sheed 3 tay 1 darko 2 he had a good night the fact is that the rest of the bench chocked up when they were in the game look at the stats look at the play by play page i posted earlier he was not at fult for mistakeds others made.
For the most part i have to listen to the majority of games (no fsn and no local) so beleive me i watched last night and i did not see mo give away the lead it was starters from 8 minutes on thats why it did not make sense either they got tired or they did not want to blow away lb but they were on the court again look at the play by play

http://scores.nba.com/games/20051202/NYKDET/PlayByPlayPrint.html

Abe, I have watched the game 3 to 4 times now. Some stretches five times. I really don't need to look at a game log at this point. Sure Evans was just minus 5 in the 4th quarter. And minus 5 in the 1st quarter. Plus minus 4 in the 2nd quarter. Thats minus 14 for the game. And I know why. Pretty obvious. No ball handling from Evans. No movement without the ball. In other words, Evans was not helping any in the organization of the play for the Pistons. Don't listen to me if you don't want to. All I ask is that you continue to track this.

Did anyone watch that game last night between the Knicks and the Sonics? Jamal Crawford had 31 points in the 2nd half!! And LB is not starting him. This is a guy with a career high of 50 points, who has not reached his prime, who comes off the bench!? It was a pretty ridiculous performance. 3's with a hand in his face. Great drives through traffic. A tough runner to his left through the lane under pressure. And he was playing OK D the whole time.

Also, Marbury made a clutch jumper at the end. It was the kind of shot that would have got him in some trouble with the coach if he missed it.

Did anyone watch that game last night between the Knicks and the Sonics? Jamal Crawford had 31 points in the 2nd half!! And LB is not starting him. This is a guy with a career high of 50 points, who has not reached his prime, who comes off the bench!? It was a pretty ridiculous performance. 3's with a hand in his face. Great drives through traffic. A tough runner to his left through the lane under pressure. And he was playing OK D the whole time.

Also, Marbury made a clutch jumper at the end. It was the kind of shot that would have got him in some trouble with the coach if he missed it.

yeah but crawford doesn't play the right way. thats why. he jacks up ill-advised shots, his only love is offense. when he's hot yeah he's hot, but when he's not...
why doesn't Q get more minutes? doesn't play the right way.
why do malik rose and antonio davis get all the minutes. they don't have much skill, but they play the right way. (read: larrys way)

the knicks don't have that bad a team, and if LB can get them to play together, look out. especially with Frye playing like a man. if they can get James to just earn a 10th of what he's making they'll be doing alright.

frye has been great on my fantasy team. the bench according to this one detnews article said they struggle because of flip's different rotations and they don't now what to expect, but they said they will do better when they get the hang of the variety of rotations. hope they get used to these rotations soon.

The Knicks are starting to buy into Larry's system. You have to remember that a lot of these Knick players have questionable legacies. If a HOF coach screams at them, they've heard it from lesser coaches, but they know this one might have a clue how to make some noise in the Big Apple.

From what I have seen of the Knicks, Crawford has bettered his game as a defender. Jamal Crawford is a super cool dude, and yeah when he is hot, he's like a long Gilbert Arenas.

What LB is doing with Crawford is not too much different from what Carlisle did in his first year. When you have middle of the road talent, spread it across the lineup rather than clumping it into a great starting unit and a lousy bench. There aren't enough balls to go around for a backcourt of Starbury, Crawford and QRich (who is playing more 2 than 3, Ariza is eating up a lot of the minutes at the 3).

As a side note, if anyone listened to the Ben Wallace interview on WDFN Tuesday, he said that during the game when LB was yelling at his players, it brought back memories and at one point Wallace actually thought, "Is he talking to me?". Funny stuff. Love him or hate him, Larry is one hell of a character.

... when LB was yelling at his players, it brought back memories and at one point Wallace actually thought, "Is he talking to me?". Funny stuff.

lol. I heard there was a yellow puddle in between the home & visitors bench and nobody was sure whether to point the finger of blame at Larry or Darko. :laugh: