ESPN's John Hollinger thinks (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2670603&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dholling er_john%26id%3d2670603) they're in bigger trouble than almost anyone else does:

Yes, Miami is in trouble.

That in itself doesn't really qualify as news. With Shaquille O'Neal out several weeks and the Heat off to a 4-5 start, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the first half of the season could be bumpy.

What might be newsworthy, however, is the extent of the trouble. I get the impression most view the Heat's troubles as a temporary thing -- they'll have a rocky first half, get better in the second half and still easily win the SouthLeast Division. To these folks, the trouble is that Miami might get a poor playoff seed that will prove costly in the postseason.

But the trouble is much more severe than that. Although Miami's 4-5 record appears quasi-respectable, it disguises a much uglier reality.
That's the beginning of the article--the full thing is only available to ESPN Insiders. I'll quote a bit more from it below. Also note that the Heat are 4-7 at the time I'm posting this; they've been blown out on the road by the Hornets and the Spurs since Hollinger's article was posted.

Hollinger points out that the Heat have already been blown out three times at home, "including a 24-point pounding by the Knicks that will provide about 75 percent of the material for New York's postseason highlight video." They're last in the league both in scoring and in point differential. Hollinger slams Riles for not making any moves in the off-season:

Miami finds itself in the incredible position of being defending world champion but having an absolute dog of a roster. Besides Wade, Udonis Haslem has been the only reasonably solid player. Everyone else has been terrible...those are the only two Heat players with a player efficiency rating above the league average. Jason Williams is the only other player to come close, and he's played only two games...

This makes perfect sense if you look at the roster. Mourning is 36 and Gary Payton is 38; both are shadows of their former selves. "Zo, like Payton, has been asked to do more than we hired him to do," said Riley of his new starting center and starting point guard.

He might have added Antoine Walker to that list too. He's 30 and creaking under the load of having to be the No. 2 scorer, shooting 25 percent on 3-pointers but hoisting more than six a game.

The other guys are struggling too. Playoff hero James Posey has a calf problem, and has been bad enough that Jason Kapono and Dorell Wright are cutting into his playing time. Of course, with all three shooting under 35 percent, it hardly matters who Riley sends out. And Jason Williams is still getting back into shape after offseason knee surgery -- he seemed to be favoring the leg at times in Saturday's game in Atlanta.
All that plus Shaq's fat-a*$ quite possibly getting even fatter while he sits out with his injury. Hollinger also talks about how Riles doesn't have any other options besides what he's doing, which is "going ugly," slowing the pace down, packing the lane, and hoping that the other team misses enough of their jumpers to allow the Heat to steal their wins late. He points out that they won in Atlanta last week only because the Hawks went 3-24 on threes, with most of them being wide-open. He ends the article by saying:

Basically, Miami looks to me like Minnesota East, with one great player surrounded by vast fields of mediocrity. I know a lot of readers don't think it's possible for a defending champion to miss the playoffs, especially one with a superstar such as Wade.

But apparently, it is. Because based on what they've shown to date, there's very little chance the Heat will be playing past April 18.
It's hard for me to reach that extreme a conclusion. Their roster does seem to be terrible all of a sudden, but can they really go from winning it all one season to missing the playoffs (in a weak conference, no less) with the exact same bunch of guys? And while Shaq's absence is obviously a big concern for them, he missed 23 games last season as well, but they still finished second in the East at 52-30.

Looking over the history of league champions and their performance in the next season, there have been only two instances when the defending champ actually missed the playoffs the next year: the '99 Bulls and the '70 Celtics. We all remember what had happened with that Bulls roster, and the Celtics that year were in the first season of the post-Bill Russell era. So for a defending champ to bring everyone back and miss the playoffs is literally unprecedented. That's largely why I don't think it's going to happen. But, Hollinger makes a good case for why it might. Let's hope his crystal ball is accurate!

For the contrary view, acknowledging some of the same numbers but still concluding that the Heat are the favorites in the East, see this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/ian_thomsen/11/21/notes/index.html) from Ian Thomsen of CNNSI.

Dare we dream? LOL. We've got our own troubles bro. The last thing I care about is whether or not the Heat make the playoffs. If we aren't there or if we lose in the first round it won't matter anyhow, will it?

Yeah, but the Pistons have looked a lot better in the last week or so. Obviously there are still issues, but it's night and day from the shellackings they took at home against the Bucks and on the road against the Warriors. It's very early in the season to be drawing any long-term conclusions, but objectively speaking, the Heat really do look a lot worse right now than we do.

That would be wonderful not seeing D Wade in the playoffs this year. It would almost guarantee retirement for Shaq, and Riley would perhaps give the coaching duties back to Van Gundy.

I don`t see it happening. Remember this is the EC. You can hover around 500, even dip below and still make the playoffs. The Heat will at least be a 500 team.

Moreover, Stern would change the rules to ensure Wade would play at least one series in the post season.

As great as it sounds, the Heat will make the playoffs but another Ship. no way..........

From the Thomsen (correction by Dumars4ever) article:
In the meantime, his teammates will be empowered to fill in for him. The vacuum of Shaq provides Antoine Walker with an opportunity to rise to the position of leadership that he loved during his days in Boston. This is more than questionable- Wade should be Walker's Paul Pierce who draws attention when taking it to the hoop- and still, Walker plays the worst basketball ever. He doesn't make his shots, doesn't rebound well and even doesn't his his free throws. He has turned into a very mediocre player. Maybe because he was relying on Wade and Shaq to keep things going and get him a ring. He's absolutely inconsistent and unable to take responsibility during a game. I remember, last year, I thought "damn, the heat have a nice roster"- but this season they're the perfect example of how weak your roster can become if you let all your opponents become better while you remain stagnant.
A similar thing happened to us (except that we even didn't keep the roster intact but became weaker!).

Ralphi, that bit you quoted is from the Thomsen article, where he argues that the Heat are still the favorites in the East. Hollinger would presumably agree with your negative outlook on Employee #8.

Maybe Thomsen should take another look at his argument, since it does rely in part on assuming that Toine will successfully take on a leadership role! :laugh:

Hollinger also talks about how Riles doesn't have any other options besides what he's doing, which is "going ugly," slowing the pace down, packing the lane, and hoping that the other team misses enough of their jumpers to allow the Heat to steal their wins late.

Wait, is this new? Pat Riley ugly ball beat Flip Saunders jumpshooting ball last time around didn't it? I wouldn't bet against Pat Riley. Either as GM or head coach. I think championship hangover + aging veteran role players and a Pat Riley who may be eager to get back to GMing and rebuilding now that he got them their championship. Besides, he can still make some moves during the season to get some role player support for Wade and Shaq/Zo.

Don't get me wrong. I hate this team. I didn't think I could see anything less aesthetically pleasing basketballwise than the 2004 Laker team and then there was this one. At least that Laker team had Kobe being Kobe. Hollinger acts like "going ugly" is a new concept for this team. I was nauseated that they won the championship against Dallas. However ugly they were, they played some defense that worked against their opponents. And the Pistons certainly were not able to get important stops on them.

Flip Saunders strategy this year:"Shoot better, you guys. If you guys would just listen to me and shoot better, we could beat Miami this year."

I'd still put my money on Riles, if he can get over HIS championship hangover.

Wait, is this new? Pat Riley ugly ball beat Flip Saunders jumpshooting ball last time around didn't it?

...Hollinger acts like "going ugly" is a new concept for this team. I was nauseated that they won the championship against Dallas. However ugly they were, they played some defense that worked against their opponents.

You're right to some extent, but the Heat's pace this year is way below what it was last year. Their points per game so far is about 10 below their average from last season.

Hollinger got pretty specific about this in his article:

You remember the team Riley had in 2001-02 and 2002-03? Like the current edition of the Heat, those were plodding, veteran-laden team with guys such as Rod Strickland, Bimbo Coles, LaPhonso Ellis, Anthony Carter and Kendall Gill. Riley brought them in as he tried to squeeze one more playoff year out of his Alonzo Mourning-Eddie Jones nucleus, but found himself glaringly short in the talent department. His solution was to slow the game down to a crawl, bore the opponent to tears and hope to squeeze out a win at the end. Both seasons, the Heat were last in the NBA in pace factor and in the bottom three in offensive efficiency, and they were as unwatchable as any team of the past decade.

I think when it counts the Heat will be right back in it. Between a healthy, rested Shaq and Wade's amazing free throw shooting ability, I expect they will start putting it together in the second half of the season. Riley knows what he's doing, and the Heat only have to win their division, not the East. I also don't expect that Orlando will end up first in the East either.

No chance Miami misses the playoffs.

Wade is an elite player. He will make the players around him better. He did it prior to Shaq his rookie season and he will do it again.

Besides, life for the Pistons would never be that easy. :)

I saw bits and pieces of Miami's loss to Orlando last night, flipping over occasionally during the Pistons game. Dorrell Wright and Jason Kapono both started and had very productive games for the Heat. J-Will is still out, but if last night is an indication, it appears that Riles has benched Fatoine and The Geriatric Glove, moved Wade over to PG, and started Kapono at the 2. Wright for Antoine might be a more long-term switch in the line-up as well. Those two young guys combined for 27 points, with Wade dishing out 15 assists. The Heat still lost, but from what I could tell, they looked sort of mediocre, not horrible. Perhaps the youth infusion will give them a jump-start until Shaq returns.

Miami should still make the playoffs. Only 4 teams in the east are currently over .500. Whatever happened to the East becoming the more dominant conference?? Sad state of affairs...

Maybe Stern won't care as much about Wade's team sucking if LeBron's are winning. He only needs 1 of those guys to win the championship.

Interesting stat:
Combined games under .500
West - 10 games (Memphis 6, Seattle 2, Minnesota 1, Portland 1)
East - 42 games (Too many to list)

Is there any team in history that misses the playoffs following the year winning it all???

Is there any team in history that misses the playoffs following the year winning it all???


98-99 Bulls were the most recent I can think of in that shortened season.

As I said in my first post of this thread:

Looking over the history of league champions and their performance in the next season, there have been only two instances when the defending champ actually missed the playoffs the next year: the '99 Bulls and the '70 Celtics. We all remember what had happened with that Bulls roster, and the Celtics that year were in the first season of the post-Bill Russell era. So for a defending champ to bring everyone back and miss the playoffs is literally unprecedented.

As I said in my first post of this thread:

Looking over the history of league champions and their performance in the next season, there have been only two instances when the defending champ actually missed the playoffs the next year: the '99 Bulls and the '70 Celtics. We all remember what had happened with that Bulls roster, and the Celtics that year were in the first season of the post-Bill Russell era. So for a defending champ to bring everyone back and miss the playoffs is literally unprecedented.

Let's hope HISTORY is in the makin'....:pound:

I thought it made sense to resurrect this thread, with Riley's indefinite leave-of-absence for knee surgery being discussed in the general NBA season thread. As things stand when I post this, the Heat are 13-18, and they're starting a 6-game road trip out West tomorrow night at Phoenix. I'm not sure what the status of Wade's wrist injury is, though I think he's been listed as day-to-day, so I'm guessing he'll be back before the road trip ends. There are also some reports that Shaq might return during this road trip as well.

So, can the Heat actually miss the playoffs? In the underwhelming Eastern conference, the only way that seems possible is if the current playoff picture continues to hold through the end of the season. Namely, the Heat would have to finish behind:
The entire Central division (5 teams, with Milwaukee in last place, currently at .500)
In their own division, the Magic and the WizardsThat would be enough to keep Miami out of the playoffs, even if they finish with a better record than everyone in the pathetic Titanic division, because division winners automatically make the playoffs regardless of record. If the Heat manage to pass either the Magic, the Wiz, or any team in the Central, they would surely be in the playoffs...unless TWO teams from the Titanic finish ahead of them, which seems wildly unlikely in that case.

As Marc Stein points out here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2719297), the Heat finish with 36 out of their last 45 games against the East, once they finish their West Coast trip. If they lose ALL of their games on this trip, they'd be stuck in a big hole at 13-24. But if they went 28-17 the rest of the way after that, they'd still finish the season at .500. Plus, if Wade and/or Shaq returns during this road trip, they probably won't lose all 6 of those games.

Stein's conclusion seems like the right thing to point out as of now:

To actually repeat as champions, no question: The Heat have to have Riley in charge when it matters most, with this group of veteran egos. Yet in the short term, when the objective is simply cracking the East's top eight, it really won't matter who's coaching these guys if Wade and Shaq aren't back soon.Still, there are only so many holes a contending team can dig itself into without doing serious damage to its championship prospects. Missing the playoffs still seems highly unlikely for these guys, but they're going to have a steep hill to climb up in order to be in top form once the playoffs start. Stein mentions how much they coasted through last year's regular season before turning it on in the playoffs, but they still ended up with 50 wins last year and had the second seed in the playoffs. This year, they might have to start playing the better teams in the conference right out of the gate in the post-season.

Walker, Posey deactivated over conditioning issue - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-heat-playersdeactivated&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Stuff like this doesn't help, either.

Something must really be wrong over there if stuff like that is happening.

Jason Kapono leading the team in scoring?? Props to my fellow HAAAAAwaiian! Hopefully they struggle all year.

I have been thinking a lot about the Pistons meeting the Magic in the ECS, so I wrote to my old buddy, Herr Stern. He said he would change
some more rules to make that happen :gun1: -------- :stirthepot: !!

If they hang around long enough to grab the 7th or 8th seed and have both Wade & Shaq healthy and well rested, along with the fat boyz in shape, they could surprise the number 1 or 2 seed especially if they steal one of those first two road games.

The only hope is to that they finish in the 9th or 10th spot so that the title that they stole from the Mavs last year won't be validated with another trip to the finals. With Stern and the officials still in love with Wade, you never know what will happen.....

I was watching them play the Clips last night and the Clipper announcer indicated that Riles was upset that some of the player weren't giving it 100% and were too busy flashing their rings instead of working hard. (Seems like we had a similar issue as it relates to working hard with some of our guys in the 04-05 season as we didn't take all of the teams seriously and didn't turn it on until late in the 4th quarter.) He also said that the Heat organization was so excited about winning the title that they gave out over 400 rings...which means that the ushers, ticket takers and custodial crew all got one. :winner_first_h4h: Those rings may not have had as much bling in them as the players rings, but it looks like everybody celebrated..

Walker, Posey deactivated over conditioning issue - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-heat-playersdeactivated&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Stuff like this doesn't help, either.
Nope. Seems to be a lot of posturing by the coaching staff.

I'll bet this is a way of resting up guys for the stretch run, letting the bench play with some fire to assess depth, and when Shaq comes back in a week or so, suddenly everyone will be at their target weight and eligible to play.

The Heat will make the playoffs because the rest of the East sucks too. Right now they would make 8th seed, and they just won't play at this level the whole season.

This is all an elaborate plan to take the target off Miami's back. Some teams need adversity to win (see Pistons). Miami will pull it together just in time for the playoffs. Heat vs Pistons again in the ECFs. Get ready.

The Heat will make the playoffs because the rest of the East sucks too. Right now they would make 8th seed, and they just won't play at this level the whole season.

Actually right now they're in 9th place, which would leave them out of the playoffs. The potential problem for them (or whomever finishes ninth in the East) is that the truly sucky part of the conference, the laughable Titanic division, will get one playoff spot no matter what, even if that division winner does not have one of the best 8 records in the conference.

Actually right now they're in 9th place, which would leave them out of the playoffs. The potential problem for them (or whomever finishes ninth in the East) is that the truly sucky part of the conference, the laughable Titanic division, will get one playoff spot no matter what, even if that division winner does not have one of the best 8 records in the conference.

Exactly right. The Heat only have to be better than 4 teams, Orlando, Washington, Atlanta and Charlotte, to make it to the playoffs. I don't think a sub .500 record will get it done, but I also don't think it'll take too much more than that. Realistically, their only competition is from Washington and Orlando. One in 3 odds isn't bad.

I hate that about all the major sports. It should be the best 8 teams, regardless of what division they're in. Teams can't control who they play or what division they're in, so why should they be penalized for it? Even if my team doesn't make it, I'd rather see the 8 best teams rather than than the top 3 or 4 (depending on the sport) teams that happened to be better than the other teams that also stunk in their division.

If the season ended today, NJ would get in with a .419 winning percentage.

I expect that things will even out by the end of the season with the Titanic division; the odds of a division winner ending up with the 9th worst record in the conference are VERY slim. But it is possible, and that team will probably be several spots below the 4th seed in the standings, yet they'll get the 4th seed anyway. Still, that's not such an unfair outcome. It won't be like Memphis/Clippers last year where both teams had a direct interest in tanking to get the Nuggets in the first round, instead of the Mavericks. That won't happen with the new system of seeding--I can't see a scenario where it makes sense to tank yourself out of the 3rd seed just in order to get the 5th seed.

I hate that about all the major sports. It should be the best 8 teams, regardless of what division they're in. Teams can't control who they play or what division they're in, so why should they be penalized for it? Even if my team doesn't make it, I'd rather see the 8 best teams rather than than the top 3 or 4 (depending on the sport) teams that happened to be better than the other teams that also stunk in their division.

Felling you sir. BTW, Heats' ways to tank for playoff are just stealing money, shame.

This is all an elaborate plan to take the target off Miami's back. Some teams need adversity to win (see Pistons). Miami will pull it together just in time for the playoffs. Heat vs Pistons again in the ECFs. Get ready.


Could be the first round match up if the Pistons continue to play above the rest of the conference and the Heat just happen to lurk around long enough to grab the 8th spot on the last day of the season.:lurking:

Could be the first round match up if the Pistons continue to play above the rest of the conference and the Heat just happen to lurk around long enough to grab the 8th spot on the last day of the season.:lurking:

True. The winner of that matchup will most likely win the East though. I feel pretty confident about that.

Have the Heat gone on a West coast trip this season?

Have the Heat gone on a West coast trip this season?

I just looked it up--they had one stretch in early December where they went 2-2 in four straight games on the road against Western Conference teams. Their trip that starts tonight is the last time they'll have a big stretch of games all on the road out West, though they do still have to play consecutive games at Houston and at Dallas later on in the season.

Not a good time for them not to have Dwayne Wade.

If no major trades or injuries happen it looks like Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Indiana, Milwaukee, Orlando, and Washington will make the playoffs. That's 7 teams, it's up to the Nets and Raps to take the last spot away from the Heat.

himat, I mentioned this before: if all seven of those teams (entire Central division + Orlando and Washington) finish ahead of the Heat, then Miami is out of the playoffs, period. It wouldn't matter what record the Nets, Raptors, or anyone else from the Titanic division ended up with. Each division winner is automatically in the playoffs, regardless of whether they have one of the top eight records in the conference or not.

Things are now looking better for the Heat. They're 3-1 so far on their 6 game west coast road trip. They lost at Phoenix to start the trip, but Wade's been back in the line-up since the game after that. They've won 3 in a row since he came back, close games at Portland and Seattle, and then a blowout last night at Golden St. Posey and Walker were back for last night's game as well. Shaq still isn't back yet, but I think they're saying he's expected to play again some time in the next week or so. Plus, they're getting healthy right as the Bucks are being decimated by injuries, so they're already back in that 8th slot in the East, tied for now with the Nets.

Things are now looking better for the Heat. They're 3-1 so far on their 6 game west coast road trip. They lost at Phoenix to start the trip, but Wade's been back in the line-up since the game after that. They've won 3 in a row since he came back, close games at Portland and Seattle, and then a blowout last night at Golden St. Posey and Walker were back for last night's game as well. Shaq still isn't back yet, but I think they're saying he's expected to play again some time in the next week or so. Plus, they're getting healthy right as the Bucks are being decimated by injuries, so they're already back in that 8th slot in the East, tied for now with the Nets.

Doesn't it just irk you that they are currently playing better than us with over weight players, assistant coaches, and missing a real big man in the middle.:frusty:

Doesn't it just irk you that they are currently playing better than us with over weight players, assistant coaches, and missing a real big man in the middle.:frusty:

Yeah, even with ronny as their coach who happens to be another coach I love to hate (one of the minor reason why big daddy quit).
It shows how much Flip sucks at his job.

himat, I mentioned this before: if all seven of those teams (entire Central division + Orlando and Washington) finish ahead of the Heat, then Miami is out of the playoffs, period. It wouldn't matter what record the Nets, Raptors, or anyone else from the Titanic division ended up with. Each division winner is automatically in the playoffs, regardless of whether they have one of the top eight records in the conference or not.

Sorry. What I meant was that if the Nets win the Atlantic it could be up to a team like Toronto to knock them out of the playoffs. I don't think Toronto will get a top 8 record though.

Sorry. What I meant was that if the Nets win the Atlantic it could be up to a team like Toronto to knock them out of the playoffs. I don't think Toronto will get a top 8 record though.

You're not watching the Raptors enough then. They've been playing with a poise I never expected (even after the preseason).

Bryan Colangelo is doing an amazing job in Toronto.

Miami Heat: True leadership? (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/2007/01/true_leadership.html)

Basketbawful: Friday's thoughts on Thursday's games (http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2007/02/fridays-thoughts-on-thursdays-games.html)
Shaq A-Lack. At this point, "The Diesel" is starting to look more like "The AAA Battery." Forget that he's only played seven game, and forget the 12 PPG, 6 RPG, and 46 percent shooting. He just plain looks bad. Yes, I know he's coming back from injury. But Shaq once said he'd retire if he was every "only as good as David Robinson." If that's the case, his retirement is probably a little overdue.Maybe this was the year to go it without DPOY Ben Wallace and notorious Shaq Stopper Darko Milicic.

After seeing Wade parade to the FT line on what look like 6 straight possessions in the last 5 minutes of last night's game with the Cavs, who wants to see that in the playoffs?

Will he get a pass like that in the opening rounds from the refs so that Stern can generate more TV revenue form the defending champs the longer they play?

Wonder if Billups would get those calls if he tried the same play to the hole 4 or 5 times in a row? I know hot head Rip would not get them..Those would have been called offensive fouls on him:)

Leave Shaq and Wade at home for the playoffs to devalue their 2006 trophy!! That title should have gone to the Mavs.

That title should have gone to the Mavs.

I'm still ticked over the phantom foul called on Laimbeer in the 87/88 final. That championship was OURS. :angrysoapbox:

After seeing Wade parade to the FT line on what look like 6 straight possessions in the last 5 minutes of last night's game with the Cavs, who wants to see that in the playoffs?

Will he get a pass like that in the opening rounds from the refs so that Stern can generate more TV revenue form the defending champs the longer they play?

Wonder if Billups would get those calls if he tried the same play to the hole 4 or 5 times in a row? I know hot head Rip would not get them..Those would have been called offensive fouls on him:)

Leave Shaq and Wade at home for the playoffs to devalue their 2006 trophy!! That title should have gone to the Mavs.


I hear ya........

Lebron got his share of those phantom calls also.

What was funny was seeeing the reaction of the Heat bench after some of the calls that went Mr. James way.....Rothstein got a tech after complaining after one call I believe.

In addition to Lebron and Wade there is a new kid on the block who will be parading to the FT line..........Gilbert Arenas!

OUr man Rip is making it to the lane a lot more this year, creating fouls on opposing teams and doing a good job of it. Billups does it doing crunch time. So the more aggressive we are, the more I see us getting "favorable calls".

No player on our team will ever get even close to "Wade calls". He's just too good ((at flopping, falling down, and basically acting like a jack-ass))

Also our players won't even get the calls they sometimes get now VS MIA.

It's difficult to see the Heat missing the playoffs in the East, especially if they continue to play as well as they played against the Spurs today.

The Heat defense looked very solid, and Wade just lit up the 4th quarter, hitting jumper after jumper from the top of the key. For once he wasn't driving the ball as aggressively and getting a ton of favorable calls, but it didn't matter as he wasn't missing many shots from anywhere on the floor.

I gotta admit, he looked pretty good. I watched the 4th quarter only, and he really dominated both sides of the ball.

Bowen made him expend slightly more energy, but he still managed to score time after time in the clutch. And he blocked Parker at least twice on D.

The Heat are our biggest problem. It's a game of match-ups and they have Shaq, Wade, and the refs.

I gotta admit, he looked pretty good. I watched the 4th quarter only, and he really dominated both sides of the ball.

Bowen made him expend slightly more energy, but he still managed to score time after time in the clutch. And he blocked Parker at least twice on D.

The Heat are our biggest problem. It's a game of match-ups and they have Shaq, Wade, and the refs.

The Heat will also have Stern in their pockets defending the refs as well as media and markerting hype of T-Mobile and the SI sportsman of the year in wade, and the arrogance and defending champ swagger that we displayed in 2005.

I am not saying we need to duck them, but the I rather the Pistons play them in the EC finals than the first round. Based on how the Heat are playing (six wins out of their last 7) they should move up the standings but hopefully only to the 5th or 6th seed.

Wade is one of my fantasy teams and addition to his heroics on the offensive end, he had 10 blocks this week, more than anyone else on my team that included Duncan and Al Jefferson. ..

If you can go in the 3rd qtr with a 10+ lead you can beat the Heat, Anything under that and Wade will handle the rock exclusively and you have to get it out of his hands before he makes his move to the hoop and then hope his jump shot is off from the outside late in the game.

Yes, I agree. Wade will make the playoffs. Notice I said: Wade will make the playoffs. And bring Shaq with him. They are the leagues money players. The rest of the team "sucks".

Sorry, I won't bother reading this thread so if I am repeating these thoughts oh well. Forget about Miami not making it. The Pistons must assume that Miami will be in their way and fully loaded. Detroit must prepare for worst case. Hey, then if Miami does not make it to us, we still make it to the NBA finals.

Wade is one of my fantasy teams and addition to his heroics on the offensive end, he had 10 blocks this week, more than anyone else on my team that included Duncan and Al Jefferson. .
not to forget that guy is 6'4!!! I wonder how he'll be like when he's in his 30's. Til now, he has no jumper to rely on and as soon as his athleticism diminishes, I can't see him getting anything done.

We are on a collision course with the Heat. It is going to be a war. Shaq still looked tough against SA. And then there is Wade. Their role players do what they ask of them.

i'd rather play the heat in the 1st round of the playoffs than the east finals

I also think we might have trouble with the Heat, but it really would not be as much about winning a championship if the Heat were to not make it. I want winning the rings to mean more by the Heat having been in on the chase. The Pistons don't have to be the ones to beat them, but they need to be beaten during the run.

I guess this is diverse to what I said earlier about them being debased by not even making it to the post-season after winning a championship last year, but I have changed my mind.

BUT, if it is either the Heat or the Magic to make it, the Heat need to LOSE out.

i'd rather play the heat in the 1st round of the playoffs than the east finals


IMO if we play them in the first round we may have to face a fresher Shaq and Wade. In the ECF, Shaq Daddy could be worn down and Wade could have enough rug burns to slow him down. Plus playing them in round 1, I am wondering how much it would take out of us both emotionally and physically, especially if it goes 7, and then we fall flat in round 2?

Long way off right now, but something to ponder...:noidea:

I want to play them but I don't want to play them. They are tough for us because of the match ups. I wouldn't want them in the first round for the reasons Dre mentioned.

I HAVE just 6 words for yall SHAQUILLE ONEAL AND DWAYNE WADE, DAMN!!!!!:gun1:

How the east will finish:

1. DETROIT
2. MIAMI
3. NEW JERSEY
4. CHICAGO
5. WASHINGTON
6. CLEVELAND
7. DARKORLANDO
8. INDIANA VS TORONTO.

so dont worry about Miami early . They're 51 games in and 25-26. They finish 20-11 for 45-37.

The original premise of this thread pretty much died when the Heat managed to right the ship on their 6 game west coast road trip last month. They started it off with Wade having sat the previous several games with a wrist injury, and had they gone 0-6 on that trip, they would have been 13-24 and at real risk of being on the bubble for the playoffs. But he came back and led them to a 4-2 record on that trip, which got them back on track. They lost 3 in a row on the road a couple of weeks ago, but they followed that by winning 6 out of their last 7, and with Portland at home tonight, they'll probably go into the All-Star break sitting back at .500 for the first time since before I started this thread back in November.

If HQ is right about them finishing 19-11 after the break (assuming they beat Portland tonight), I'm not sure that'll be good enough for second in the East. Cleveland, which is playing a little better now (3 game win steak), would only have to finish 16-15 to have a better record than HQ's prediction of 45-37 for the Heat. It's looking pretty bad for the other two potential playoff teams in Miami's division--Washington and Orlando--but I'm guessing that the Cavs and the Bulls will still both manage to finish ahead of Miami. That would put the Heat in the 5th slot in the East, with a first round matchup against Toronto, and then a second-round showdown with the Pistons.

EDIT: Whoops, I forgot the rules of how the NBA works...LOL. If Miami wins their division -- and the reeling Wizards and Magic are not inspiring much hope of preventing that -- then they'll be no worse than 3rd in the playoff seedings, assuming they finish better than whoever wins the still weak Atlantic division. So, the important thing to remember is that if the Heat win their division and the Pistons finish with the best record in the East, both of which seem pretty likely at this point, it doesn't look like they would meet each other in the playoffs until the conference finals.

Depending on how many games will be out, the Heat may eventually miss the playoffs.

If he misses half the remaining games before the playoffs, I think the Heat will either miss the playoffs or make it as the 8th seed. No way they go any further than that.

So yall, prepare for the Pistons versus Heat 1st round playoffs series.

With Wade's shoulder injury, this thread might have some life left in it. As of right now, the Heat are tied with Orlando for the 8th spot in the East, with the Nets two games behind them, and the Knicks 3 games back. If Wade has to miss the rest of the regular season (8 weeks), I'd say it'll be tough for the Heat to stay in the playoffs. If he's out for 6 weeks, as some of the initial reports have guessed, then he might be able to get them over the hump right at the end of the regular season. They haven't announced the results of any tests yet to determine how long he'll be out, but given how bad it looked last night, it would be very surprising if he's out for anything under 6 weeks.

Could be time for the long awaited Riley bunion surgery.

It all starts with the rectal exam.

It all starts with the rectal exam.

Y'all surely have some bunions in odd places up there in Canada.

Y'all surely have some bunions in odd places up there in Canada.

For the record, I've never had a rectal exam or a bunion. :canada:

For the record, I've never had a rectal exam or a bunion. :canada:

Thank you for clarifying that. We were all on the edge of our seats wondering whether the Pistons would pull off a deal and whether Jammer had any bunions or past rectal exams.:movingon:

The seeds will look like this

1. Pistons
2. Cavs, IF THEY GET MIKE BIBBY
3. Wizards
4. Raptors
5. Bulls
6. Pacers
7. Heat
8. Magic

1. Pistons
2. Cavs, IF THEY GET MIKE BIBBY
3. Wizards
4. Raptors
5. Bulls
6. Pacers
7. Heat
8. Magic

I don't see the Cavs getting Bibby unless a third team gets involved. Even if that happens who will the Cavs trade? If they trade Ilgauskas they have a big hole at center.

New Wade Commercial

YouTube - D-Wade Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLOZHuk9ANs)

Wade WILL be attempting a comeback this year.

He said today that he will delay surgery and rehab his shoulder for the playoffs, but also said there is no guarantee.

He may have surgery after the playoffs.

All you Wade fans rejoice.... - Fantasy Basketball Cafe 2007 (http://www.fantasybasketballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36188)

Wade WILL be attempting a comeback this year.

He said today that he will delay surgery and rehab his shoulder for the playoffs, but also said there is no guarantee.

He may have surgery after the playoffs.

All you Wade fans rejoice.... - Fantasy Basketball Cafe 2007 (http://www.fantasybasketballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36188)


I was not sad to see a Wade-less Miami team, but this is making me queasy thinking of Wade coming back prematurely and permanently damaging his shoulder. I mean, think of all the fantasy teams he has helped (inclding mine for the better part of the first half of the season). Seriously, though, I don't like to see anybody rip up their bodies (see Shaun Livingston).

Miami is now not only 5 games above 8th, they are only 1/2 a game behind the Wiz and 3rd seed. Boy, what a difference a 5 game winning streak can do for you in the lower echelon of the playoff picture.

And look who's hanging around 8th - Indiana and New Jersey. Looks like we may be renewing at least 1 rivalry in the first round.

Miami is now not only 5 games above 8th, they are only 1/2 a game behind the Wiz and 3rd seed. Boy, what a difference a 5 game winning streak can do for you in the lower echelon of the playoff picture.

And look who's hanging around 8th - Indiana and New Jersey. Looks like we may be renewing at least 1 rivalry in the first round.


Thye Pacers have lost 10 straight and are still holding on to the 8th spot??

However I think they will finish out of the money and the Pistons may be looking at a first round match-up of the Nets, Knicks or even the Wiz if they continue their freefall.

I think Shaq is demonstrating why it is a good idea for Wade to attempt a comeback.

All these Wade, Kobe type guys get a lot of attention, but they look a lot better when they have a Shaq down low. Is Miami better with Wade and no Shaq, or Shaq and no Wade? Yet who is the one who gets all the MVP talk... MVP of the Finals, etc. I think Wade knows that when Shaq is gone, so are his Title chances. So it makes sense that he is risking his body for one more chance at the 'ship.

Look at how well the Lakers are doing with their "next MJ" and without Shaq.

Yeah, Miami is 8-2 in their last 10 games, and they made up 8 games on the Pacers in that stretch! The Heat currently have 6 fewer losses than the team closest behind them, New Jersey, so NOW I think we can finally say that the original premise of this thread is dead. Clearly, the Heat will be in the playoffs, and seeded no worse than 6th.

They only have one more loss than the Wiz, and if they catch them too, they'll be seeded 3rd or 4th, depending on whether they finish ahead of Toronto or not. The Cavs have 4 fewer losses than Miami, so the Heat's chances of moving all the way up to the 2nd spot are pretty slim. But since they're neck-and-neck with Toronto (both of them have 29 losses), it's definitely possible that the Heat could get the 4th seed, which would mean a second-round meeting with the Pistons.

Seems like the Heat will not only make the playoffs but will be the 4th seed if the Wizards continue to play the way they are playing since after the All Star break. Also looks like the Heat will either play the Wizards or the Bulls in the 1st round.

I got a feeling Wade will be back like 5 games before the playoffs.

Shaq will make sure the Heat have success in the playoffs. Still upset with kobe for kicking Shaq off the Lakers. I've always liked Shaq and wish him well in the playoffs. Out of all the teams in the east, the HEAT is the one team I'd like to avoid. Trust me, they'll rise to the occasion..

Shaq will make sure the Heat have success in the playoffs. Still upset with kobe for kicking Shaq off the Lakers. I've always liked Shaq and wish him well in the playoffs. Out of all the teams in the east, the HEAT is the one team I'd like to avoid. Trust me, they'll rise to the occasion..

Kobe didn`t kick Shaq off the Lakers, Shaq`s fat ass couldn`t handle the truth. That he was a fat ass, and Kobe was the future of the Lakers!

Kobe is NOT the future of the Lakers.........They will not win anything with Kobe as their leader. He doesn't know how to make players around him better. They have to adapt to his game. Shaq DOES make those around him better. Wonder if :yellowprison:Kobe 's HAD to buy any more bling for his wife......

Kobe is NOT the future of the Lakers.........They will not win anything with Kobe as their leader. He doesn't know how to make players around him better. They have to adapt to his game. Shaq DOES make those around him better. Wonder if :yellowprison:Kobe 's HAD to buy any more bling for his wife......

Are you telling me Shaq would make the current roster of the Lakers better? That is without Kobe of course.

No, of course not. Kobe to me is a big disappointment to me in the fact that he plays as an individual. He's in his prime and I just wish he were more of a team player. Shaq is well past his prime, and because of this, only turns it on for the playoffs. Kobe should have paid the respect to the Diesel that he earned as a good player while they were with the Lakers. Even right now though, I would rather have Shaq on my team than Kobe. The younger guys would get more from playing with Shaq than with Kobe.

No, of course not. Kobe to me is a big disappointment to me in the fact that he plays as an individual. He's in his prime and I just wish he were more of a team player. Shaq is well past his prime, and because of this, only turns it on for the playoffs. Kobe should have paid the respect to the Diesel that he earned as a good player while they were with the Lakers. Even right now though, I would rather have Shaq on my team than Kobe. The younger guys would get more from playing with Shaq than with Kobe.

Great, that`s your opinion. Obviously the Lakers and myself would choose to go with the younger, more to offer Kobe. Simply because he will bring it every night and not only in the playoffs.

I am not a Shaq or Kobe fan, so don`t misunderstand me, I could care less of both of them, but this crap that Kobe got rid of Shaq is not true.

Let`s put it this way, where would the Lakers be now with Shaq and without Kobe now? If things were done your way that`s how it would be. Kobe would be gone and Shaq would still be in LA.

The Lakers were looking at the big picture, which didn`t include Shaq, they made the right choice, between the two of them, because one of them had to go.

Well, at least you agree with me. Since, "one of them HAD to go", obviously this decision was to placate Kobe. They'll win NOTHING with the individual star. He deserves nothing. The Lakers had a choice. Tell Kobe to shut his mouth and play team ball. I'm glad that Shaq got away. Kobe will be happy with his 1.6 assists per game............:hoops:

Kobe will be happy with his 1.6 assists per game............
Well put.

Well, at least you agree with me. Since, "one of them HAD to go", obviously this decision was to placate Kobe. They'll win NOTHING with the individual star. He deserves nothing. The Lakers had a choice. Tell Kobe to shut his mouth and play team ball. I'm glad that Shaq got away. Kobe will be happy with his 1.6 assists per game............:hoops:

Yes, one of them had to go because they couldn`t play together anymore for whatever reasons. Now, let me understand you here, are you saying the Lakers should have kept Shaq and let Kobe go?

I guess they tried to tell fat ass to shut up and come to camp about 20-30 pounds lighter!

BTW, Kobe`s career assists is 4.5 per.

I think the pressure on Kobe is a major distraction.

Given the amount of attention he will see, he should be setting up his teammates.

But given the Lakers chances to win a title this year, perhaps he will chase immortality instead.

I'm happy that we as Pistons fans do not have this problem. I would have serious reservations about cheering for Brian Cook, Luke Walton and Smush Parker.

Based on their play the last couple weeks, we all conceded that the Heat are in...unless blows out a knee. now they have done what Dlev predicted a month ago...surpassed the woeful Wizards to grab the division lead and the # 3 seed. If everything stays the way it is, I think that means a probable second round matchup between the Heat and Cavs?? Somebody confirm that please. Love to see those two pound each other out before they show up at the palace.

Based on their play the last couple weeks, we all conceded that the Heat are in...unless blows out a knee. now they have done what Dlev predicted a month ago...surpassed the woeful Wizards to grab the division lead and the # 3 seed. If everything stays the way it is, I think that means a probable second round matchup between the Heat and Cavs?? Somebody confirm that please. Love to see those two pound each other out before they show up at the palace.

You are correct Dre.

The playoffs will be played as follows;

1st Round

1st seed vs 8th seed

2nd seed vs 7th seed

3rd seed vs 6th seed

4th seed vs 5th seed

2nd round

1st seed 8th seed winner vs winner of 4th seed 5th seed matchup


3rd seed 6th seed winner vs winner of 2nd seed 7th seed matchup


So yes, looks like Heat/Pistons III in the EC Finals is probable!

You are correct Dre.

The playoffs will be played as follows;

1st Round

1st seed vs 8th seed

2nd seed vs 7th seed

3rd seed vs 6th seed

4th seed vs 5th seed

2nd round

1st seed 8th seed winner vs winner of 4th seed 5th seed matchup


3rd seed 6th seed winner vs winner of 2nd seed 7th seed matchup


So yes, looks like Heat/Pistons III in the EC Finals is probable!

Thanks Dlev..or a Cavs/Pistons matchup. Looks like we to learn how to beat da bulls in old Chicago first as that is probably our 2nd round matchup. My original comment should have read that the heat only miss if Shaq blows out knee this week.

Heat are currently 4 games behind Cleveland, making it highly unlikely that Miami will be able to move up into the 2 seed. But, Miami and Toronto are currently tied, so if they both win their divisions, it'll come down to their records to determine who gets the 3rd and the 4th seeds.

If Miami gets the 3rd seed, they would be slotted to play the Cavs in the second round. But if Toronto edges Miami out for #3, then the 4th-seeded Heat would clash with the Bulls in the first round for the right to face the Pistons in the second.