Coming off a huge road win at Dallas the Pistons are 4.5 underdogs to the suddenly struting Magic.
Get your Darko T-shirts.
The Magic are an up and coming team. The Pistons need to remind them it's a long way to the top and you must go through Detroit Basketball.

At Orlando December 8th, 7:00PM

TV: NBA LP, TV 20 (Detroit)


Coming off an impressive win in Dallas last night the Pistons head to Orlando take on the surprising Orlando Magic.

At 14-6, (7-1 at home) the Magic are in 1st place in the Southeast Division. Led by Dwight Howard and a healthy Grant Hill they will be a handful for the Pistons.

Darko and Arroyo will want to show their ex teammates what they are missing, and the Pistons will want to continue their winning ways.

This is the Magic`s 4th game in 6 days, and the 2nd of a back to back for Detroit. Tay logged 40 minutes last night, followed by 39 for Rip, 36 for CB, and 33 for Sheed.

It seems as if Flip is going to a nine man rotation with J-Max being the odd man out.

I'll be there. Now all I need is bballjay to join me and this could REALLY get interesting.

Bballjay:"That was a block"
MotownPride:"Foul"
Bballjay:"BLOCK!"
MotownPride:"FOUL!"
Bballjay:"Taste Great"
MotownPride:"Less filling"
Bballjay:"Pepsi!"
MotownPride:"Coke!"
Bballjay:"Kramer from Seinfeld sucks!"
MotownPride:"You have a point, there."

The Magic are at home tonight for the first time after their just-completed 6 game road trip, which was mostly out West. They went 4-1 in those west games, and then lost at Indiana two nights ago.

I'll be getting back from travel right as the game starts, so hopefully I'll be able to check in to the chat at some point during the second half.

Merged two threads, only way to keep poll.

chauncey hurt + lindsey hurt = dnp for will blaylock.

sorry folks but orlando is going to beat us tonight. flip murray will continue to get exposed but flip saunders will not bench someone with the same name as him.

look for a jmax sighting as all the bigs will be in foul trouble trying to deal with d. howard. darko will block several of his shots but that is only because jmax is rusty.

delfino will lock up hill but we will be behind in the second half so he won't play after halftime.

arroyo is going to go off.

On second thought, I'm glad bballjay isn't going with me. I can see him jumping out of the stands to give Darko a hug after he scores his first two points. Then security will need to get called as bballjay refuses to release his death grip on Darko's leg.

BTW, we win this one by 7 points.

Detroit by 2.

look for a jmax sighting as all the bigs will be in foul trouble trying to deal with d. howard. darko will block several of his shots but that is only because jmax is rusty.



I hope one of those shots is not a slam, because if it is, Darko`s arm will be shattered in several places...............:eek:

MotownPride (aka MAINMANFD) & Lazyberbs
Back2Back Recaps
The players might not consider this a rivalry but we do. So we got a few 'active' participants in the Magic/Pistons debates to agree to recap the game through their own unique perspectives. Ebert & Rober meets Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley. :MusicBigGrin:

I noticed that on league pass when I click info, the game description says something like "former Pistons Arroyo, Hill and Milicic face off against Chauncey Billups, Hamilton, and Nazr Mohammed.

They forgot to mention DHo!

MotownPride (aka MAINMANFD) & Lazyberbs

Back2Back Recaps
The players might not consider this a rivalry but we do. So we got a few 'active' participants in the Magic/Pistons debates to agree to recap the game through their own unique perspectives. Ebert & Rober meets Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley. :MusicBigGrin:

Uh oh...........What are the early odds on this one??

BBJ be prepared to catch hell in chat. Remember where your loyalty lives.
Don't let MMFD expose you.
Same for the rest of you Darkoites. And TDribites

From Chris MCCoskey's blog that is not a blog...


DETNEWS | Weblog | Pistons (http://info.detnews.com/pistonsblog/index.cfm)
There is a good chance that former Piston Darko Milicic will start tonight for the Magic. Tony Battie, the regular starting power forward, is ill and the Magic indicated this morning that they didn't expect him to play. If he doesn't, Milicic will start.

We won't know the status of Chauncey Billups until game time. He strained his right hamstring late in the game at Dallas Thursday. He was pretty sore after, but thought he could get it loose in time to play tonight. You have to believe, though, that if the hammy's even a little bit tender, the Pistons would sit Billups down as a precaution. He has logged a lot of minutes the last two weeks. The Pistons don't play again until Wednesday. This would be the right time to sit him. If that happens, Flip Murray would start at point guard and Will Blalock would make his NBA debut.

Too bad about Billups. This is am important game.

I felt the loss last year to them helped give them the confidence to go on that win streak. A strategic beat down tonight could take some of that away and even improve our pick situation.

If I had a choice between the Dallas game or this one I would pick this one. Time to get them both.

Someone else is going to have to step up. Can still win this if Prince, Rip and Sheed play well and we get something from the bench. Also try and minimize Mohameds time and maximize Davis's for this one.

Hold all your bets people.
Still, we should lace these cats.

arroyo is going to go off.


...the court

From what I have seen so far this year with Milicic, the best strategy will be to try to get him in quick foul trouble. Since our bigs don't want to do it, then you need to send some guards his way.

i've just got an ugly feeling that the magic win this one. just to spite all us loyalists and keep the drip feed going for the darko mili-freaks.

an orlando win, no matter what kind of contribution from d-mi will give them enough ammunition to hang on in arguments until the next rematch.

mili-freaks: we won cos we have darko. i mean, they won
motown: he only scored 5 points and 3 rebs
mili-freaks: but his presence propelled them to victory and scared sheed into shooting 3's all night
roscoe: sheed does that every game anyway
mili-freaks: he also had 47 shot alterations. i counted them all, even the one where darko simply raised his eyebrows at nazr which caused him to shoot a rainbow miss
slippy: now THAT's fantasy basketball
mili-freaks: but d-ho was extra motivated to grab 22 rebounds cos he knows if he doesn't go strong darko will get them all and his stats will look rubbish
motown: just when i thought i could resist another baiting...
mili-freaks: will blalock didn't play very well because ben's cancerous attitude last year made him go out and smoke dope and not work on his jump shot
low: freaks...

I am looking forward to seeing this flying bit

BBJ be prepared to catch hell in chat. Remember where your loyalty lives.
Don't let MMFD expose you.
Same for the rest of you Darkoites. And TDribites

i'm ready for chat. i'm so excited to finally get to watch darko play while the rest of the piston fans watch too. now people can see for themselves the impact he has on the game whether he scores 10 or 2 points. people have said all along that stats don't tell the whole story now people can watch for themselves and make thier own conclusions.

if darko starts nazr will get owned. i am a loyal piston fan but darko > nazr. tonight i feel torn but i've been a fan of darko's since he was a piston so i feel no need to stop because he's playing against us. people should have been loyal to him when he was here. now they will see what happens when potential becomes production. i like to be proven right.

I'm going to keep an open mind about Darko.

And I hope we whup his butt to show the new kids on the block who rules this roost.

Btw, great post webz. Really funny and sadly, too true.

i've just got an ugly feeling that the magic win this one. just to spite all us loyalists and keep the drip feed going for the darko mili-freaks.

an orlando win, no matter what kind of contribution from d-mi will give them enough ammunition to hang on in arguments until the next rematch.

mili-freaks: we won cos we have darko. i mean, they won
motown: he only scored 5 points and 3 rebs
mili-freaks: but his presence propelled them to victory and scared sheed into shooting 3's all night
roscoe: sheed does that every game anyway
mili-freaks: he also had 47 shot alterations. i counted them all, even the one where darko simply raised his eyebrows at nazr which caused him to shoot a rainbow miss
slippy: now THAT's fantasy basketball
mili-freaks: but d-ho was extra motivated to grab 22 rebounds cos he knows if he doesn't go strong darko will get them all and his stats will look rubbish
motown: just when i thought i could resist another baiting...
mili-freaks: will blalock didn't play very well because ben's cancerous attitude last year made him go out and smoke dope and not work on his jump shot
low: freaks...

That's hilarious. :pound: ...and so true! Like I mentioned before I won't be at the chat because I will be attending the game live but I'm sure my spirit will be honored by the Low. Should be alot of fun.

I just got free tix to the Bulls game. I'll be recording the Pistons though, and I hope that I can avoid the score while I'm at the game. Nothing worse than recording a Pistons game and then seeing the score... well I suppose there are a few worse things.

If Billups is a scratch for this game, I'm thinking we'll see FlipM fill in nicely. Will it be frustrating? Yessir! Will it be ugly? Probably. But the guy can scrap and score and we have able ball movers in Rip, Tay, Delfino.

BBJ, If the Darko gang does us, I don't want to hear...well CB was lame...it was a B2B...FlipM sucks...etc.
MoPi's new name will be "I got Darkod".
Let's take the loss like a man!
Anybody going to warm up the Magic forum?

From what I have seen so far this year with Milicic, the best strategy will be to try to get him in quick foul trouble. Since our bigs don't want to do it, then you need to send some guards his way.

That would be very easy. He is playing against his former team and he never seen a pump fake he didn`t fall for.

If Darko starts he will have 3 fouls in the first 5 minutes if the Pistons play smart.

BBJ, If the Darko gang does us, I don't want to hear...well CB was lame...it was a B2B...FlipM sucks...etc.
MoPi's new name will be "I got Darkod".
Let's take the loss like a man!
Anybody going to warm up the Magic forum?

Alls i know is IF we lose, it won't be because of Darko Milistache

How many points will the former Pistons have tonight? The over/under is 33 if you take their per game averages.

Under. 20 tops.

The return of the lesser known Agent Zero. For Gilbert Arenas, it is a super hero moniker, for Darko, it is a playing style...

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/2791/gdarko195th1.jpg

I say 28 combined. Arroyo for 15pts 3 AST. Darko 13pts 2 blks.

How many points will the former Pistons have tonight? The over/under is 33 if you take their per game averages.


The term 'Former Pistons' includes Grant Hill. Did you include him?

If he is included, I go for the over.

Chat is open!

http://www.pistonsforum.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

Pistons down by 4.

Sheed blocked Dwight Howard just before the half

YouTube - DHO Blocked by SHEED (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTa5mPovcB4)

JMax rung up two fouls on Darko and chased him from the game (no lie).

DARKO WHO?????

Pistons win it! 87-83. Tie game, 82 all, with 2 minutes left...and then the Pistons played lockdown D. Darko turned it over on a 3 second call, Rip hit a jumper, Darko bobbled a pass in the lane, and Rip hit another jumper.

What a weird week...losing at Charlotte and at HOME to Portland, but then winning on back-to-back nights at Dallas and at Orlando.

Great win. Veteran savy tool over in crunch time. Don't think we had the lead in the 2nd half until the final 3 minutes. 31 points by Billups. Everyone played well. Even those without big stats contributed.

Very frusterated Sheed out there having to guard Howard along with his ref support.

I know its going to get talked about. I did not see how Darko made any difference at all. Often forgot he was out there. Guess he had a bad game.

What a weird week...losing at Charlotte and at HOME to Portland, but then winning on back-to-back nights at Dallas and at Orlando.

I can't figure it out. Thought they might get one of them with how teed off they were. Orlando ( except for Howard ) did not impress me. Take away his ref support and I don't know.

The Pistons were ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIC TONIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

NBA.com: Pistons at Magic Boxscore (http://www.nba.com/games/20061208/DETORL/boxscore.html)

Pistons win it! 87-83. Tie game, 82 all, with 2 minutes left...and then the Pistons played lockdown D. Darko turned it over on a 3 second call, Rip hit a jumper, Darko bobbled a pass in the lane, and Rip hit another jumper.


darko had one turnover. 3 second call the guard should have shot the ball. the pass was just a thread the needle type of pass. they were costly though.

darko did what he did best and that's play defense. the only player to score on him was sheed. he checked tay, sheed, jmax, dice, dale davis. 1 field goal on him. darko basically shut down whoever he checked he just couldn't stop chauncey and rip. weak way to blame the loss on darko but cb and rip and flip had great games.

Watching Darko in extended minutes for Orlando for the first time tonight (I hadn't seen much of the Magic this year), I really am impressed with how Darko-colored the world looks through bball jay's eyes. He played 24 minutes, 4 pts, 5 boards. Not much passion, which is awfully weak when you're playing the team that (in Darko's view) failed to give him a fair shake for three years.

It should be mentioned that JMax actually played 17 minutes tonight; didn't do too much, from what I saw (just the 2nd half). Nazr only played 13 minutes.

Not much passion, which is awfully weak when you're playing the team that (in Darko's view) failed to give him a fair shake for three years.

Excellent point D4E. If he couldn't get up for this game, he never will.

this is one part of a double recap. the combined recap can be found here: http://www.pistonsforum.com/december-2006/5437-orlando-december-8th-7-00-pm-9.html#post62794 - Slippy

Is this where I am supposed to do my thoughts on the game? Well, I apologize for the delay. My long-winded sister-in-law in SC called just before the game was over and just got off the phone. I have dial-up with one phone line.

Anyway, going in, I figured there was not much advantage or disadvantage because coming home from a long road trip, your own floor is much like another away game. And all the news about CB not playing and Battie not playing and DMC starting, all came to naught. Just so much trash talk.

Anyway, right from the beginning, CB really kept the game in check, set the pace, and for most of the game, I did not know whether the defense on both teams was really good or whether the offense was very bad. I opted for the good defense.

The Pistons started out making 3s and the Magic could not make two footers. And where was Dwight for most of the first quarter. Piston D on him was really good, and stayed that way all night. He didn't score until 5 minutes left in the quarter and his first board came at 4 minutes.

Here comes Darko and the second unit, and in a minute, DMC had a bucket, a steal and a board. Good start and with the second unit in, (for most of the run) the Magic went from 9 down to 6 ahead. A 19-4 run with mostly the second unit in, with a starter or two.

Arriza is a good addition to the second unit, Darko played Dyce well, forcing a travel. Then he picked up a mystery foul; during all the replays no one could see a foul. But one was called on DMC.

Darako went out with the Magic +8 and in a couple of minutes, it was +2. And the Pistons were still keeping Dwight out of his game.

Both CB and Murray abused Jameer and I expect that to continue. He is just not a starting guard in this league. He is flat not big enough. But then when CB got another 3 and it looked like the Pistons were getting something started, Jameer answered with a 3, tying it up again. Sheed had a nice block and the Magic lead at half 44-40.

In the second half, they both still were showing good D, and neither could get much going. Jameer got the ball to Ariza on the break one time and I would have sworn it was Rip to Tay. Jameer is trying to force things too much rather than being a point guard and getting the ball to his teammates.

The Pistons also made a game out of abusing the Magic's lack of a perimeter defense. Sheed, CB, Flip all had uncontested perimeter shots all night and the Magic knew going in that the Pistons are a jump-shooting team. No reason why the Magic did not concentrate on that.

Carlos does the same thing. When DMC came in and got that lob, so pretty and so uncontested, I just cannot imagine why the Magic does not do more of it. With Dwight in the game or not, Darko is so open after the pick and rolls that if they would only call his number, the lobs are there for the taking. Do it until somebody stops it.

Carlos dribbled into trouble and tried a leaping, twisting shot that had no chance of going in while DMC was right there for the lob. When this happens so much, I just wonder what is going on.

Going into the 4th, it is just too much CB because he is so darned good and the Magic just have no answer for him.

Then, late, Rip is just indespensible. And to boot, in the last two Magic possessions, Darko screwed up. 3 second call and missed a pass. I guess he was just too surprised to catch it.

Bad floor spacing all night for Orlando didn't help and there was just no answer for Chauncey. And I wish the refs would not make any foul calls on Sheed during the entire game. It just pisses him off and he takes it out on the Magic. Just let him do whatever he wants and keep him happy.

Well, that's about it.

Thanks lazy!

That was a great game summary, berbs. Much appreciated, since I didn't see any of the first half.

Postgame interviews with the coaches (see attached).

Maybe the intimidator got intimidated

Watching Darko in extended minutes for Orlando for the first time tonight (I hadn't seen much of the Magic this year), I really am impressed with how Darko-colored the world looks through bball jay's eyes. He played 24 minutes, 4 pts, 5 boards. Not much passion, which is awfully weak when you're playing the team that (in Darko's view) failed to give him a fair shake for three years.


darko isn't an outwardly emotional player. he's the 4th or 5th option on offense so he makes his impact defensively. he plays defense with passion. he was very effective except for 2 plays in the whole game. you mentioned his stats but you forgot his 2 blocks. since you were watching the game you should have seen his alterations first hand yourself. then again you are making conclusions from only watching half a game.

Jay - I thought for sure you would say Darko had a bad game. Looking at the box it does pretty much match his stat line. I was not impressed. His defense was not that good and he was not helping the team out very much.

From what I saw in that game, unless Darko takes a pay cut I doubt the Magic will re-sign him.

Jay - I thought for sure you would say Darko had a bad game.

You know when you can expect that to happen...

:flypig:

Watching some of the rebroadcast and trying to pay more attention to Darko. He actually did a pretty good job guarding Dyess in the 2nd. I guess with all the props since the trade I was expecting more.

Jay - I thought for sure you would say Darko had a bad game. Looking at the box it does pretty much match his stat line. I was not impressed. His defense was not that good and he was not helping the team out very much.

From what I saw in that game, unless Darko takes a pay cut I doubt the Magic will re-sign him.


You are seriously INSANE if you think that Orlando doesn't want to resign Darko. Why wouldn't they? The only guy to score on him was Sheed on his first shot taken on Darko, after that Sheed went at least 0-3 on his next shots defended by Darko. Jmax drew two fouls on Darko, but for the most part, THE PISTONS WEREN"T SCORING IN THE PAINT, all of their damage came from the perimeter.

The Magic didn't give Detroit layups, the Pistons relied on jumpers to win (which has been proven not to work in the playoffs when your legs are dead) while the Magic got points in the paint AND GOT TO THE FT LINE (where they did a very poor job of converting, missing 12 FTs).

The key to the game was DETROIT EXECUTED down the stretch and made HUGE PLAYS. Billups was on fire in the 3rd quarter and hit big shots in the fourth before Rip sealed the deal with a couple clutch jumpers.

Orlando isn't going anywhere, Dwight Howard and Darko Milicic aren't going to shrink and get smaller, they will learn from games like this and they will be back, bigger and better. They will grow from losses like this. They had a chance to take this thing and they gave it away with inexperience and mistakes.

Orlando's defense was tough, we didn't get inside on them and they didn't foul us too much. 19 fouls to our 24 fouls. They are a solid team and one that I don't think the Pistons would want to face in the playoffs.

I don't see how anyone can say this Orlando team isn't for real, what's not real about them? They played Defense. They didn't give up many layups or FTs. They get to the FT line, they have a stud bigman in D. Howard. They have pretty good depth.

Darko didn't play a great game, but he wasn't bad either. He did a very good job defensively (as evidenced by very few layups allowed and HIS MAN not getting good shots). He just doesn't get touches in their offense. Arroyo ain't giving the ball up, so DMC just doesn't get his number called, but if he starts to get touches and develops his offensive game, the Magic will be a very dangerous team. He did make a couple nice passes to Dwight Howard out of the high post and found Dooling for an open look off of a postup and things like that go un-noticed by the casual fan.

I don't have the +/- numbers for the game, but I would like to see them.

It seemed when Darko was in, the Pistons just weren't getting in the paint. He did make a difference defensively.

I have seen Orlando play a bit in other games. As the season progresses, teams will stop their offense. They remind me of Denver about two years ago. I feared this game only because the REAL GAME was last night against Dallas.

Orlando has no go to guy. Howard has some moves but he is not at the level of carrying his team in a series. He gets many calls from the refs as does D. Wade. Who else is suppose to score in the 4th quarter on their team?

Anyway, the Pistons are our team and they just pulled off a back to back that stamps them as a real contender. Joe needs to get a back up by hook or by crook. We need to see a bit more what kind of front line we have. But the Pistons are there...

If you're the Magic's GM, do you throw big $s at Darko or Chauncey?

Watching Darko in extended minutes for Orlando for the first time tonight (I hadn't seen much of the Magic this year), I really am impressed with how Darko-colored the world looks through bball jay's eyes. He played 24 minutes, 4 pts, 5 boards. Not much passion, which is awfully weak when you're playing the team that (in Darko's view) failed to give him a fair shake for three years.

It should be mentioned that JMax actually played 17 minutes tonight; didn't do too much, from what I saw (just the 2nd half). Nazr only played 13 minutes.

If you did not see the first half, you did not see Darko trigger a big run by Orlando-with his D. Take a good look at Dyess stat line tonight. And Tay's. Darko played a lot of darn good D. His coach simply does not run a whole lot of plays for Darko to score. If Hill wanted Darko to score, he would run plays for Darko to get free on the perimeter, where he is a very good shot. For now, Darko is slowly gaining experience, slowly healing from two years of sitting. A lot of damage was done to Darko while in Detroit. Ok, I am rambling a bit so good night.

PopcornMachine's GameFlow - Detroit @ Orlando (http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20061208&game=DETORL)

I can't believe these guys get the gameflow done that quickly.


Amazing game by Billups. It reminds me of the games last year that made him an MVP candidate. And we finally get to see a little bit of why they say Flip Murray is a streaky scorer. Sheed was also being very tough. That is actually the most trouble that I have seen Dwight Howard have this year. It didn't really stop him, but it made him work for it a lot more than usual.

So, did Sheed intentially bank the first 3 tonight to show that the bank 3 last game was not an accident? And WTF was he thinking with that horrible 3 point chuck with 1:30 left in the game? The one that he shot 3 feet outside the arc while he was fading away with Darko in his face, than hit backboard first...

All in all, two great wins on the road on back to back nights. They deserve some love.

By the way, how unlikely to work was that no look lightning pass to Darko in traffic at crunch time by Nelson? Did he really think that Darko was going to anticipate that, catch it, and convert it?

Jmax drew two fouls on Darko

Thats significant. When your "star" is put into foul trouble by a seldom used bench player, you have a problem.

Guess the legend continues. People are going to see what they want to see. Did Darko "trigger" things or were the other Magic players driving and slashing for easy baskets?

What I saw was a Magic team driven by Howard, Hill, Nelson and their bench.

Our team just does not get inside much so I would not take that as exclusivly Orlando's defense.

We close to the situation think the Brahma is already a star, just seldom used.

I've been following the Darko saga for longer than anyone. Up front, I want him to fail and I want the Magic to fail so we get a better pick. The only way Darko will escape my criticism is if he leaves the Magic as a free agent. I can live with that.

Anyways, since he's the ultimate message board topics, let's cover Darko first and the Pistons second.

Darko was everything he was built up to be. He was an incredible +/- impact when he was on the court. The Magic play differently when he was in. Defensively, they perform at a high level. Darko also rebounded well.

Offensively, Darko is what Darko is. He's a 4th or 5th piece, he's very mobile but not very intelligent about where to space himself.

I am not sad about losing this player at all. For every plus there is an equal minus. His only asset is his youth. Once he grows up, he'll have to make big strides if he wants to live up to the hype. Right now, he's a young, very mobile Shawn Bradley.

Magic/Darko fans here have revised their opinion of him so many times, it's not funny. 2 years ago, he was a devastating offensive weapon. Now he is a devastating defensive weapon. All I see is a really tall athlete with not a lot of court sense.

Pistons played well. I was kinda sad that Sheed couldn't score in bunches once he got ticked off, we might have to invoke the Howard rules and beat that kid up in the paint if he thinks he's gunna be a Shaq style bully. Make him earn it at the line like Shaq.

Billups played his second strong game. A few slips into bad decision, I wanna be a shooting guard Chauncey, but mostly under control and very aggressive in the paint. I don't know what he finished with, but at 9one point he had 5 boards which is really good for him.

Tay was really disappointing jacking up so many long jumpers. He's not an off the dribble shooter. Catch and shoot, he can be devastating. I think his game with the ball is vastly overrated outside the post.

Flip Murray continues to find a groove. He's still very slow and non-chalant, definitely not a hustle or energy type player, but when he gets going, he can score.

Jason Maxiell came in and got two fouls on Darko that chased him to the bench. It was very important because the Pistons were struggling to score with Darko in the game. Other than that, and a dunk, Max didn't contribute much. He needs a lot more playing time to get comfortable out there on defense.

That's all I can remember until I watch it again. Good game. We made them play at a pace that favours us on the road.

Now let's rested up!

Thats significant. When your "star" is put into foul trouble by a seldom used bench player, you have a problem.

And Sheed didn't have foul trouble? Darko drew a foul on him, Dwight drew 3-4 fouls on him, isn't Sheed supposed to be our star? Why can't he keep himself out of foul trouble. It didn't seem too hard to draw fouls on Sheed. He's our highest paid player but he couldn't seem to keep himself on the court, maybe he should learn to stop fouling, especially when a bench player (Darko) who rarely gets touches can draw fouls on him. Or when a 3rd year player like Dwight can pretty much kill Sheed inside and all Sheed can do is foul him.

I've been following the Darko saga for longer than anyone. Up front, I want him to fail and I want the Magic to fail so we get a better pick. The only way Darko will escape my criticism is if he leaves the Magic as a free agent. I can live with that.

Anyways, since he's the ultimate message board topics, let's cover Darko first and the Pistons second.

Darko was everything he was built up to be. He was an incredible +/- impact when he was on the court. The Magic play differently when he was in. Defensively, they perform at a high level. Darko also rebounded well.

Offensively, Darko is what Darko is. He's a 4th or 5th piece, he's very mobile but not very intelligent about where to space himself.

I am not sad about losing this player at all. For every plus there is an equal minus. His only asset is his youth. Once he grows up, he'll have to make big strides if he wants to live up to the hype. Right now, he's a young, very mobile Shawn Bradley.

Magic/Darko fans here have revised their opinion of him so many times, it's not funny. 2 years ago, he was a devastating offensive weapon. Now he is a devastating defensive weapon. All I see is a really tall athlete with not a lot of court sense.

Pistons played well. I was kinda sad that Sheed couldn't score in bunches once he got ticked off, we might have to invoke the Howard rules and beat that kid up in the paint if he thinks he's gunna be a Shaq style bully. Make him earn it at the line like Shaq.

Billups played his second strong game. A few slips into bad decision, I wanna be a shooting guard Chauncey, but mostly under control and very aggressive in the paint. I don't know what he finished with, but at 9one point he had 5 boards which is really good for him.

Tay was really disappointing jacking up so many long jumpers. He's not an off the dribble shooter. Catch and shoot, he can be devastating. I think his game with the ball is vastly overrated outside the post.

Flip Murray continues to find a groove. He's still very slow and non-chalant, definitely not a hustle or energy type player, but when he gets going, he can score.

Jason Maxiell came in and got two fouls on Darko that chased him to the bench. It was very important because the Pistons were struggling to score with Darko in the game. Other than that, and a dunk, Max didn't contribute much. He needs a lot more playing time to get comfortable out there on defense.

That's all I can remember until I watch it again. Good game. We made them play at a pace that favours us on the road.

Now let's rested up!


I think there are a few DHOF members who would dispute your claim, myself included.

Guess the legend continues. People are going to see what they want to see. Did Darko "trigger" things or were the other Magic players driving and slashing for easy baskets?

What I saw was a Magic team driven by Howard, Hill, Nelson and their bench.

Our team just does not get inside much so I would not take that as exclusivly Orlando's defense.

We did get inside against Dampier and Dallas, we didn't even seem to try against Orlando. They had this big tall lanky kid clogging up the paint, we didn't challenge him too often and when we did, we shot fadeaways and got blocked a couple times by him.

PopcornMachine's GameFlow - Detroit @ Orlando (http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20061208&game=DETORL)

I can't believe these guys get the gameflow done that quickly.


Uh Ta - checked your watch lately? It's nearly been a workday since the game finished. When do you guys sleep?

Fun game to watch. I can't believe no one is talking about Rip. Yeah, CB shot them into the game in the fourth, but Rip got the two key ones, and TEN boards including two on the offensive end - 14 points, 3 assists, 2 steals, and a block, all in a nice compact 33 minutes. The guards and Prince all rebound better out of this matchup zone they're playing.

I did expect more from Darko. BBJay is right about his defense. His length and strength make him very tough. He took Dice right out of his game. Otherwise, I didn't see the little things he would need to do to earn him more minutes.

If I just arrived from another planet and started reading this Darko stuff, I would think he was the second coming of Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain or something.

Dayamm.

If Darko isn`t an all star in a couple of years, (hell the way some talk about him he should be an all star now) the Darko supporters will have some explaining to do. Or should I say some excuses to give!

Thats significant. When your "star" is put into foul trouble by a seldom used bench player, you have a problem.

have you ever seen jmax play??? he gives anybody fits in the post and yes he can get people into foul trouble. flip should have been using him like this all year. did you see the preseason??? anyway darko wasn't checking jmax on his fouls he was playing help defense. he isn't the star of orlando either.

i didn't see you posting like this when the young big men of the league were taking turns owning ben wallace.

So, just for kicks I had to go back and see these two fouls that Maxiel "drew on Darko". On the first foul, Jason Maxiel was being guarded by Pat Garrity (a scrub) and Maxiel beat Garrity to get in the paint. Darko reached and got a ticky tack foul (a dumb foul IMO), but it was GARRITY who got beat.

On the 2nd foul, Jason Maxiel was running in transition and got the ball in transition on a semi-fastbreak. Darko has just shot a jumphook on the other end and was running back defensively. Darko had been guarding Dice NOT Maxiel. (which is why I find it ironic that Darko was supposedly getting abused/fouls drawn on him by Maxiel). Flip Murray drew Garrity over and then lobbed to Maxiel. Darko, who was still running back in transition, caught up and fouled Maxiel over BOTH ARMS preventing an AND 1. Maxiel made both at the line.

That first foul was dumb on Darko's part (never reach and barely make contact). The 2nd foul was a good hard foul, (always make them shoot free throws instead of giving up open dunks). I wish the Piston's bigs would foul HARD more often. You can't give up layups and last night the Pistons didn't get too many layups.

I just didn't see where JMax "abused" Darko last night. Darko committed only those 2 fouls and he wasn't even guarding Maxiel. He was guarding Dice and Sheed the majority of the time. Dice was 0-3, Sheed was 5-12, not exactly "killer stats".

Darko was everything he was built up to be. He was an incredible +/- impact when he was on the court. The Magic play differently when he was in. Defensively, they perform at a high level. Darko also rebounded well.

agree. that's why people say he should start over battie. i personally think b.hill likes him in the bench role so darko won't start at all this season.


Offensively, Darko is what Darko is. He's a 4th or 5th piece, he's very mobile but not very intelligent about where to space himself.

i disagree with this. i don't have any problem with darko's spacing. he runs the pick and roll, pick and pop and never gets the rock. he posts up and never gets the rock. where do you think he should place himself to be more effective?? he has really good spacing in my opinion that's how he is able to pass so well. i think this is more coaching because he plays with a pg and a sg that don't pass much and do iso stuff so basically there is no place for darko to be just get out of the way.

darko's role on this team is to be the 4th option and he plays that role well. he showed in the worlds that he can be the #1 option on a team also. remember he is 21.


I am not sad about losing this player at all. For every plus there is an equal minus. His only asset is his youth. Once he grows up, he'll have to make big strides if he wants to live up to the hype. Right now, he's a young, very mobile Shawn Bradley.


i'm sure sheed would like to have that mobile shawn bradley helping him in the paint. yes. dale davis and nazr are better options for us.

his only asset isn't his youth. dude has major skills that can't be denied even by the biggest critics. he can shoot, pass, defend and handle the ball very well for a 7' player.


Magic/Darko fans here have revised their opinion of him so many times, it's not funny. 2 years ago, he was a devastating offensive weapon. Now he is a devastating defensive weapon. All I see is a really tall athlete with not a lot of court sense.

he's still a devastating offensive weapon that just isn't his role on the team. he's getting maybe 6 attempts a game and a lot of those are rebounds. he isn't being called upon to do it but he definitely can. all of our starters except nazr could score 20+ a night if called upon to do so.


Jason Maxiell came in and got two fouls on Darko that chased him to the bench. It was very important because the Pistons were struggling to score with Darko in the game. Other than that, and a dunk, Max didn't contribute much. He needs a lot more playing time to get comfortable out there on defense.


this proves what people have been saying all along about playing the bench. you can't play them every 7 games and expect them to be consistent. jmax when he first played as a piston could come in and put up 10 points in 6 minutes and have the other team in foul trouble. the last game i went to he missed 3 bunnies. in the preseason he would have dunked at least 2 of them or attempted to. not playing is having an effect on his game. i know in 2 years i'll be defending him like i did darko about how good he was when he first got to the league and he's just rusty now.

have you ever seen jmax play??? he gives anybody fits in the post and yes he can get people into foul trouble. flip should have been using him like this all year. did you see the preseason??? anyway darko wasn't checking jmax on his fouls he was playing help defense. he isn't the star of orlando either.

i didn't see you posting like this when the young big men of the league were taking turns owning ben wallace.


I only posted one line about foul trouble, geesh. But yes, I do think it's a problem. The few times I have seen Darko play he seems to make some bad decisions. He reaches and bites on fakes. (when I saw him play)

As for Ben Wallace, I'll take the bait. Wallace has never fouled at the rate Darko does. Ever.

Jay if you think Darko played a good game than he isn't that good. He couldn't stop Sheed, he couldn't intimidate CB, and Rip. If Tay wasn't passive today Darko would of looked real bad. Darko is good, but Jay you like Darko so much you think his bad games are good.

Great defense by Sheed. That was a sweet block he had late in the 4th. One problem is that Sheed does a lot of good defensive plays and gets called for a foul.

this proves what people have been saying all along about playing the bench. you can't play them every 7 games and expect them to be consistent. jmax when he first played as a piston could come in and put up 10 points in 6 minutes and have the other team in foul trouble. the last game i went to he missed 3 bunnies. in the preseason he would have dunked at least 2 of them or attempted to. not playing is having an effect on his game. i know in 2 years i'll be defending him like i did darko about how good he was when he first got to the league and he's just rusty now.


I think you may have just changed the subject from Darko's fouls to the bench theory... However, I'm glad to hear that you will be defending Jmax like Darko. I really like Maxiel and I look forward to reading your posts.

The bench really helped yesterday. Hopefully Flip can see that this time.:bigeyes:

Thanks, Jackattaq, I was wondering there for a couple of minutes. I was watching the game closely and taking notes for my "recap" and for a little while I thought I must have had my head up my @$$. I did not see JMax outplay Darko and chase him off the floor.

Whew!! They had me there for an instant :sssh: .

As the darko fans embellish a little, so too do the Pistons fans. :)

this proves what people have been saying all along about playing the bench. you can't play them every 7 games and expect them to be consistent. jmax when he first played as a piston could come in and put up 10 points in 6 minutes and have the other team in foul trouble. the last game i went to he missed 3 bunnies. in the preseason he would have dunked at least 2 of them or attempted to. not playing is having an effect on his game. i know in 2 years i'll be defending him like i did darko about how good he was when he first got to the league and he's just rusty now.
And this is why I like you so much. Your message extends beyond one player.

You are seriously INSANE if you think that Orlando doesn't want to resign Darko. Why wouldn't they?
Because if they do, it will mean they can't be a big player in free agency.

It's debatable what you or I think, but there is a certain attraction for the Magic to sign Vince Carter.

Stranger things have happened. If Hedo is seriously injured, and Hill retires, they will have big holes to fill in the starting front line.

in Darko's interview the magic offered a deal that darko would have taken but at the last minute rescinded it.
And as Blakely said, its not how Darko does this year but next year after his contract is signed that will tell you what kind of player he will be.

This is still sort of Milicic's first real opportunity so i wouldn't sweat his mistakes or flaws.

I don't have the +/- numbers for the game, but I would like to see them.
PopcornMachine.net (http://www.popcornmachine.net)

It's an excellent resource.

Orlando's defense was tough, we didn't get inside on them and they didn't foul us too much. 19 fouls to our 24 fouls. They are a solid team and one that I don't think the Pistons would want to face in the playoffs.
There was an element of home cooking going on in that game that cannot be denied. Which is fine, because home court is supposed to be an advantage and the referees are never perfect.

Orlando played well. Darko played ok. The expectations have been revised to where if he scores 4 or 6 points, that is supposed to be ok. I don't buy that. In his 4th year, we're still waiting for him to become a Chris Kaman quality starter.

Thanks, Jackattaq, I was wondering there for a couple of minutes. I was watching the game closely and taking notes for my "recap" and for a little while I thought I must have had my head up my @$$. I did not see JMax outplay Darko and chase him off the floor.

Whew!! They had me there for an instant :sssh: .

Thats the best post in here.


Guess I just expected to see more given all the Hype. The way bbaljay and others were talking about him I was expecting to see Darko come crashing into the game like a bull through a china shop.

PopcornMachine.net (http://www.popcornmachine.net)

It's an excellent resource.


There was an element of home cooking going on in that game that cannot be denied. Which is fine, because home court is supposed to be an advantage and the referees are never perfect.

Orlando played well. Darko played ok. The expectations have been revised to where if he scores 4 or 6 points, that is supposed to be ok. I don't buy that. In his 4th year, we're still waiting for him to become a Chris Kaman quality starter.

Two things I must very respectfully take opposition to there:

I really didn't see any real difference in the refs. They were crappy on both sides and good on both sides. I think they called it pretty fairly.

I agree with you and I don't buy settling for 4-6 points and I hope the others are not, either. That is totally not OK. He will not end the year with less than 10-12 per, and has been doing better than 4 or 6. What I disagree with is that this is his 4th year (of real experience). Sure, he has been around for that long but not playing. He normally would not even be through college by now. Small point and not one to get into a big argument about but it is not like he has played much, no matter on whom you lay the blame.

Oh, yes. If the Magic do not resign DMC, they will have still further big holes to fill in the front line. They are counting on Ariza to plug the hole if Grant retires but they are figuring that he will stick around for a couple more years at a much, much lower salary. Hedo will probably not be injured enough to be a non-factor but they are figuring Ariza to be a major contributor, anyway. JJ has not even played yet and will be a
pretty big factor in the future in their opinion. You don't lead Duke and their conference and not be a good shooter.

They don't know it yet but their problem is at PG. An under 6' point guard does not start successfully in the NBA. They can come off the bench but the odds of them leading their team to a championship are not very good. I still do not understand why he is one of the building blocks for their future.

I think they are figuring on resigning DMC but I have to wonder if DMC will be resigning there. When he came to the Pistons they were a major contender and now that he is with the Magic, they are a contender, and he has not had good luck playing with contenders. He might be like the others in his draft class and go to a team who will depend on him like the Serbian team. In that way, he will progress faster, or fail. At least, he and all of basketball will know for sure.

And at 23 or 24, he will not be too old to finish high school and college, and make something of himself.

Who knows??

Thats the best post in here.


Guess I just expected to see more given all the Hype. The way bbaljay and others were talking about him I was expecting to see Darko come crashing into the game like a bull through a china shop.

From your mouth (keyboard) to God's ear. I was hoping for something like that. When he came in and had a bucket, a steal and a rebound all in the first minute, I was feeling pretty good about it, but then he went away. Not getting the ball does that to some people.

I think that if one of the Pistons came into the game like that, they would get him the ball and ride him until he stopped.

But that's just me.

Putting aside Darko for a bit, I was really happy to see Max get to play. The brahma was totally rusty but he ran around and banged a bit and that is a real positive. It seems that young Pistons go to the bench and never return sometimes. I truly believe this guy can be a contributor, even if it is as a 7th man.

I forget if it was mentioned but Billups tweaked his neck and had to get therapy from Arnie Kander during the game. Hopefully this long layoff gives him a chance to heal up (and maybe Blalock some more practice reps).

Last night, Amir Johnson was inactive along with Lindsey.

From your mouth (keyboard) to God's ear. I was hoping for something like that. When he came in and had a bucket, a steal and a rebound all in the first minute, I was feeling pretty good about it, but then he went away. Not getting the ball does that to some people.

I think that if one of the Pistons came into the game like that, they would get him the ball and ride him until he stopped.

But that's just me.

Pistons are still a better passing team and at exploiting mismatches. Yes he would have scored more but we never played him.

I though Sheed kind of abused him on a couple of plays and that one of the stops on Dyess was a foul. Even so stopping Dyess is not a hard thing to do these days.

Overall Darko does stay with his guy and get his hands up. Text book style defense, just not the dominator I was expecting to see.

MotownPride & Lazyberbs'
Back2Back Recap
Lazy resides in Central Michigan and vacations in Florida and cheers for both the Orlando Magic and the Detroit Pistons. Motown cites his location as Tampa Florida and is a die hard Detroit Pistons Fan. Mo' yelled DEEEtroit basketball in the Orlando stadium while Lazy did a split personality routine in the comfy confines of his own home in Mich.

Motown says:

It was Dwight Howard’s birthday and no one in the building appeared to take this matchup lightly. Fans wore the special D-Howard 21st birthday giveaway tee-shirt with pride. The Magic wanted a win and the fans were visibly ready to see one. Upon arriving I couldn’t help myself. I had to search the arena to see if Darko madness had affected the people of Orlando as much as it had seduced some of my esteemed colleagues at PF.com. With all the hoopla in the forum on the emergence of Darko and the Magic’s commitment to building the franchise around the "new twin towers" I was ready to face Darko mania head on. Bring on the bobble head dolls. Show me the jerseys. Show me the posters. The video feeds in the background. The fire truck posters. I’m ready to see bballjay’s fantasy come to life.

But alas…

There was nothing.

No posters. No bobble heads. No videos. No jerseys. No….commitment and no…buzz from the fans.

This can’t be true can it? Could the Orlando Magic fans and ownership be a bit less impressed with Darko than the media machine and PF.com’s Darko Hall of Fame Club have communicated?

Early signs point to yes. Orlando is in love with its players. They just don’t have the human victory cigar stigma following them around. The heart of the fans and management go to Howard, Hill, Arroyo, Nelson…and Ariza. Yes Ariza!

From speaking to the countless Orlando fans I was surrounded by it appears that the jury is still out on Darko. Fans still seem to be in a wait in see mode. Orlando Magic merchandising apparently shares that sentiment.

First quarter starts. Tales of Chauncey’s non-start and Darko’s push to the starting rotation appear to be premature. The starting fives responsible for the Eastern Conference's best records would face eachother for early bragging rights.

The Magic go to Dwight Howard in the post immediately to set the tone. Dwight Howard looks huge out there. Hard to believe he is only 21 years old. Nazr does his customary disappearing act, 2 personal fouls in the first 4 mins. Detroit, while Nazr is on the court, gets off to an early 10-4 lead initiated by Chauncey controlling the pace of the game, Detroit dominating the boards and a lot of missed layups by the Magic. Right after Dale Davis enters the game, Detroit gets a beautiful 3 point shot from Sheed to stretch the league to 13-4. The Magic call a timeout and begin to run the offense through Grant Hill. It is an efficient strategy as Orlando goes on a run to drop Detroit’s lead to 15-14.

Beginning of Darko section:

Here comes the Serbian Gangsta!

Bucket 14 comes off Darko’s first shot of the game, a pretty layup. I can see bballjay’s words in my head, “Darko is going to have a big night tonight”. Remember that bucket though, folks. It would be half of Darko’s point total for the night. Darko makes an immediate impact on defense. A steal, a rebound over Flip Murray leading to a fast break. You could feel the optimism of the crowd. Unfortunately, this would be yanked from the crowd as the next play would see Turkoglu inadvertedly land on Tay’s foot attempting to defend Tay’s layup. Turk would be helped off the court. Unfortunately for the Orlando fans he must have taken Darko’s fire with him. His stat line would read 4 pts 5 boards 1 steal 1 steal and 1 block. His second bucket would be off a pretty hook shot in the second quarter. The rest of his game was relatively quiet. He did a decent job defending, nothing amazing though. I will say that his inability to score on smaller sized players…Tay, Maxiel…consistently received groans out of the crowd. I heard constant Darko sucks references around me from fans apparently unsold on his potential. Again the jury is still out, and there appears to be no commitment to the Darko investment. Sounds like the type of Detroit déjà vu that I am happy to pass along to an opposing team. I chuckle to myself and find myself wondering that if this performance was done by Pat Garrity would I even be paying attention.

This ends the Darko section as he really did not have a great bearing on the final outcome.

End of Darko section:

After Turk is carried off the court, Chauncey is the first of the all-star 4 to go to the bench. Enter Flip Murray. He takes a bad shot and makes some poor decisions on offense as point guard. I’m thinking man, this dude is horrible. That opinion changes quickly as Flip lights up. He was easily the most difficult player for Orlando to guard for the rest of the night, finishing with 13 pts off 50% shooting with most shots being challenged. I was constantly asked by Magic fans…who da hell is that guy? He doesn’t pass, but man he’s unstoppable. Lol.

The rest of the first half saw Detroit characteristically play uninspired basketball for a stretch. But, this time around we saw Flip rely on his bench strongly to get the game back under control. The tactic was successful. Halftime score. Magic 44 – Pistons 40.

Couple of notes on the first half:

Guards for Orlando constantly got dribble penetration to create easy shots. (To the surprise of no one here in the forum) Nelson and Arroyo look extremely quick on the court and try their best to pick up the pace of the game. Flip Murray’s effectiveness was most likely attributed to a huge height advantage over what has to be the smallest PG combo in the NBA. Detroit was content on playing a slow paced efficient attack.
Darko spends most of his time on the offensive end throwing awkwardly stiff picks on his man. He rarely roles to the basket. Reminds me of the Indian dude from One Flew Over the Coocoo’s Nest.
Detroit is boring to watch on offense and defense. No ball movement and the zone allows them to conserve energy. A great deal of their defense appears to be focused on preventing the opposition from taking comfortable shots close to the basket and forcing jump shots. We looked lethargic. The Pistons are very efficient, but compared to the Magic it is not pretty basketball to watch. In contrast, Orlando plays aggressive defense and looks to score on turnovers. They really do look like a younger, less experienced version of the 2004 model Pistons without the 4th quarter efficiency.
Dale Davis did an excellent job on Dwight Howard practically taking him out of the game offensively in the first quarter
Detroit’s bench did an excellent job getting the team back into the game in the 2nd quarter. Flip went to the bench much longer than I expected with Maxiel putting in some good minutes at the Power Forward position.
The Magic’s cheerleading squad was awesome. They have a segment where they bring out trampolines and do these amazing dunks. One cheerleader even successfully completed the JR. Rider/Kobe Bryant ball between the legs dunk. Fans buzzed about the dunks all game.
Detroit interior defense is horrific.
Sheed sat 10 mins in the 2nd quarter after a hot first quarter. Not sure why. We didn’t see Darko vs Sheed until the second half.
Points in the Paint first Half – Orl 24 – Det 10
Fast break Points – Orl 10 – Det 2Coming into the third quarter it was painfully obvious that two Pistons were determined to make their presence felt, Chauncey Billups and Rasheed Wallace. The Magic’s point guards were exposed defensively in the first half making it obvious that Billups would need to have a big night to guarantee victory. He did, dropping 31 points (16 pts in the 3rd) as he looked to score first and Tayshaun became the ball distributor with 6 assists. Nazr citing at the 7 min mark. He gets a steal and a block, draws a foul and then disappears back to Flip’s doghouse. Flip’s confidence appears to be growing with Dale Davis. Arroyo, Ariza, Hill, and Howard kept Orlando in the game the 3rd quarter. All of this seemed to take a back seat to Sheed’s battle with the refs though. Lol. The quarter was filled with “Ball don’t lie”s, referee taunting and Sheed using all of this to pump himself up to go inside. Darko draws Sheed as a defensive assignment twice and both times the ball rattles out. The Orlando fans hate Sheed but they all seem to be entertained by his theatrics. Orlando 67 – Detroit 66

Flip goes back to the bench in the 4th quarter bringing in Maxiel and Dice and Flip Murray. Flip is doing a masterful job mixing in starters and bench players. This particular group has Rip and Prince as the leaders on the court. Hamilton heats up and does an excellent job going after loose balls to the tune of 10 boards for the game! In crunch time the Pistons show why they are among the elite in the league. A picture of offensive efficiency. Orlando folds and it becomes a free throw exhibition with a minute left in the game.

Closing Thoughts:

It became painfully obvious to me that without Sheed this team has no swagger or fire. Rasheed brings energy to this team and although his constant battles with the refs seem counterproductive often times he is the one that gets the team fired up about winning the game. Sheed played Dwight Howard aggressively on defense forcing Howard to the line and taking Orlando out of their offensive rhythm. Sheed is still very critical to this team’s success.
Tayshaun Prince shut down Darko. I find that to be kinda funny and sad. Lol.
First time I’ve ever heard the opposition’s retort to the “Deeee-Troit basketball” slogan…. Something about… “Deeee-Troit suck my ….” Lol.
Pistons fans are everywhere! ¼ of the jerseys worn around the arena had to be Pistons jerseys.
Orlando is still a force to be reckoned with. Their formula is more conducive to playoff basketball than the Pistons as they play inspired defense and look to get easy baskets based on dribble penetration. We’d be unwise to take these guys lightly.
Simply no other team executes better in the stretch offensively than the Pistons. With no offensive liabilities we are going to be tough to beat in the fourth quarter. Unfortunately, if the jump shot fails us…. we could be in big trouble as I’m not so sure this team is still a good come from behind team.
Great win! Bench substitutions and the exploitation of defensive matchups should be applauded.
Darko layed an egg in his biggest game so far of the season.Lazy says:
Anyway, going in, I figured there was not much advantage or disadvantage because coming home from a long road trip, your own floor is much like another away game. And all the news about CB not playing and Battie not playing and DMC starting, all came to naught. Just so much trash talk.

Anyway, right from the beginning, CB really kept the game in check, set the pace, and for most of the game, I did not know whether the defense on both teams was really good or whether the offense was very bad. I opted for the good defense.

The Pistons started out making 3s and the Magic could not make two footers. And where was Dwight for most of the first quarter. Piston D on him was really good, and stayed that way all night. He didn't score until 5 minutes left in the quarter and his first board came at 4 minutes.

Here comes Darko and the second unit, and in a minute, DMC had a bucket, a steal and a board. Good start and with the second unit in, (for most of the run) the Magic went from 9 down to 6 ahead. A 19-4 run with mostly the second unit in, with a starter or two.

Arriza is a good addition to the second unit, Darko played Dyce well, forcing a travel. Then he picked up a mystery foul; during all the replays no one could see a foul. But one was called on DMC.

Darako went out with the Magic +8 and in a couple of minutes, it was +2. And the Pistons were still keeping Dwight out of his game.

Both CB and Murray abused Jameer and I expect that to continue. He is just not a starting guard in this league. He is flat not big enough. But then when CB got another 3 and it looked like the Pistons were getting something started, Jameer answered with a 3, tying it up again. Sheed had a nice block and the Magic lead at half 44-40.

In the second half, they both still were showing good D, and neither could get much going. Jameer got the ball to Ariza on the break one time and I would have sworn it was Rip to Tay. Jameer is trying to force things too much rather than being a point guard and getting the ball to his teammates.

The Pistons also made a game out of abusing the Magic's lack of a perimeter defense. Sheed, CB, Flip all had uncontested perimeter shots all night and the Magic knew going in that the Pistons are a jump-shooting team. No reason why the Magic did not concentrate on that.

Carlos does the same thing. When DMC came in and got that lob, so pretty and so uncontested, I just cannot imagine why the Magic does not do more of it. With Dwight in the game or not, Darko is so open after the pick and rolls that if they would only call his number, the lobs are there for the taking. Do it until somebody stops it.

Carlos dribbled into trouble and tried a leaping, twisting shot that had no chance of going in while DMC was right there for the lob. When this happens so much, I just wonder what is going on.

Going into the 4th, it is just too much CB because he is so darned good and the Magic just have no answer for him.

Then, late, Rip is just indespensible. And to boot, in the last two Magic possessions, Darko screwed up. 3 second call and missed a pass. I guess he was just too surprised to catch it.

Bad floor spacing all night for Orlando didn't help and there was just no answer for Chauncey. And I wish the refs would not make any foul calls on Sheed during the entire game. It just pisses him off and he takes it out on the Magic. Just let him do whatever he wants and keep him happy.

Well, that's about it.

Brahma's game is to stand under the basket and lift 2 or 3 guys up to the hole.
Isn't this how coaches want new guys to come into the game, play defense and rebound.
Darko has 35 to 40 games with decent minutes to draw from.

Berbs, good point about Darko and contenders. However he makes any team a contender with just a little help. So I think he stays with the Magic. Darko never cared if he scored, he just wants to contribute. He knows he's the man.

As for the Pistons, Nazz once again was 2 for 2, let's see if he can do 3 for 3.
If you go to Fox Sports and look at their "head to head" numbers you'll see the Pistons are once again #1 in only one category...points of turnovers.

Great recap MotownFD

Mainman - thanks for the recap.

To borrow lazybers line. After reading the glowing reviews here on Darko's performance I thought I must have had my head up my @$$. to not have seen it.

Pistons are an odd team. On paper they look like one of the best teams in the league. Then you watch the games and see the opponents seem to drive in at will for easy baskets while we settle for jump shots. Missed rebounds. How many times have the Pistons stepped it up on defense only to lose the offensive board.

Somehow they find a way to win.

Great approach MoPi.
It's clear MoPi is struck with Darkoitis and needs to scratch that itch.

Great approach MoPi.
It's clear MoPi is struck with Darkoitis and needs to scratch that itch.

I'm just giving the people what they want TheeTFD. lol. I think it would have been a bit of a letdown if I covered the Magic game and dedicated two lines to Darko's output which in reality is all he deserved.

I edited Mo's post to include Lazy's comment as we were trying to do a double recap. Most have read both by the time they get to this post but I figured it wouldn't hurt to follow through. Mo's content is untouched and lazy's has only slight editing.

Thanks to both guys for agreeing to this. now back to the battle;

Great recap, FD!

Thanks for the compliments PF.com fam'. :)

Jay if you think Darko played a good game than he isn't that good. He couldn't stop Sheed, he couldn't intimidate CB, and Rip. If Tay wasn't passive today Darko would of looked real bad. Darko is good, but Jay you like Darko so much you think his bad games are good.

Sheed shot 1-5 against Darko and 4-7 when Darko wasn't on him, if that ain't stopping him I don't know what is? Did he have to make him 0-10? Dice was 0-2 against Darko and 0-3 for the entire game. Darko didn't give up points to HIS man, he did come over to try to cover up for some of his teammates that couldn't defend their man (Garrity).

I saw at least two plays where Sheed got around Darko but missed easy shots near the basket. I'm not saying Darko sucks, but I didn't see him do much to prevent Sheed from scoring.

I saw at least two plays where Sheed got around Darko but missed easy shots near the basket. I'm not saying Darko sucks, but I didn't see him do much to prevent Sheed from scoring.

Thank you.

I saw at least two plays where Sheed got around Darko but missed easy shots near the basket. I'm not saying Darko sucks, but I didn't see him do much to prevent Sheed from scoring.

Took the words out of my mouth. Anyone watching the game could see that Darko's man was missing shots versus Darko causing misses. Darko has had stellar defensive performances in the past, though. This just wasn't one of them. He was not impressive by any means. The Pistons didn't go inside because our guards were torching the imposing guards. Detroit took advantage of the mismatch. The real question to ask is why Darko wasn't able to gobble up more rebounds? During the time he was on the court, he was easily the biggest player on the floor and couldn't manage to pull more than 5 boards. He was outrebounded by Chauncey, Rip and Prince. Darko's inability to grab more boards when Howard was out of the game probably cost Orlando many potential possesions. The difference to be made in this game was not his handling of the bigs...who the Pistons didn't even really go to...but to dominate the boards when the Pistons went small. Or to dominate offensively with up against a smaller lineup. Being able to get away with putting Tay and Maxiel on Darko was a huge advantage for the Pistons and played a large part in the 4th quarter dominance. Knowing when to adjust your game to help the team is a skill great players learn. He isn't there now and personally I don't think he ever will be.

Should be interesting to note that when I heard two different interviews on Sirius' NBA radio from the Orlando organization, (Pat Williams / VP as well as their radio color analyst) they hardly mentioned him. It was all about Howard and the other young guys coming on and Grant Hill. Arroyo got some love, but I think Darko's name got mentioned once as part of the trade.

Looks like Darko will be the typical bench player.

Took the words out of my mouth. Anyone watching the game could see that Darko's man was missing shots versus Darko causing misses. Darko has had stellar defensive performances in the past, though. This just wasn't one of them. He was not impressive by any means. The Pistons didn't go inside because our guards were torching the imposing guards. Detroit took advantage of the mismatch. The real question to ask is why Darko wasn't able to gobble up more rebounds? During the time he was on the court, he was easily the biggest player on the floor and couldn't manage to pull more than 5 boards. He was outrebounded by Chauncey, Rip and Prince. Darko's inability to grab more boards when Howard was out of the game probably cost Orlando many potential possesions. The difference to be made in this game was not his handling of the bigs...who the Pistons didn't even really go to...but to dominate the boards when the Pistons went small. Or to dominate offensively with up against a smaller lineup. Being able to get away with putting Tay and Maxiel on Darko was a huge advantage for the Pistons and played a large part in the 4th quarter dominance. Knowing when to adjust your game to help the team is a skill great players learn. He isn't there now and personally I don't think he ever will be.

Nice post

darko was as bad as i remembered.

but NO ONE has mentioned the most important stat of the entire game: maxiell got his first assist of the year! wooooot

At any rate. I think Magic showed us that they are not going to vanish anytime soon. What impressed me is their constant push to take the ball inside and improve the shot. Guards trying to penetrate and Howard always there ready for the pass. Fall asleep on defense and the Magic will take advantage.

They will continue to improve their young core and should get better as the season continues. Howard, Nelson, Ariza, Bogans, their rookie Redick, and of course Darko. Most teams improve as the season advances so we will see if they keep pace. Also crucial is the status of Grant Hill. He still has not made it for a full season over there.

Then they get to enter the next stage of rebuilding which is trying to hand onto all the players they put so much hard work in developing. Especially if they end with a good record, generate a lot of interest in their players.

Next Magic/Piston games are Feb 23 at Orlando and April 11 at home. Taking this 1st road game gave us home court for the 3 meetings. This could come into play for playoff seeding if the Magic keep up the pace.

At any rate. I think Magic showed us that they are not going to vanish anytime soon. What impressed me is their constant push to take the ball inside and improve the shot. Guards trying to penetrate and Howard always there ready for the pass. Fall asleep on defense and the Magic will take advantage.

They will continue to improve their young core and should get better as the season continues. Howard, Nelson, Ariza, Bogans, their rookie Redick, and of course Darko. Most teams improve as the season advances so we will see if they keep pace. Also crucial is the status of Grant Hill. He still has not made it for a full season over there.

Then they get to enter the next stage of rebuilding which is trying to hand onto all the players they put so much hard work in developing. Especially if they end with a good record, generate a lot of interest in their players.

Next Magic/Piston games are Feb 23 at Orlando and April 11 at home. Taking this 1st road game gave us home court for the 3 meetings. This could come into play for playoff seeding if the Magic keep up the pace.

I agree Max.

The key to this young team as you mentioned is the health of Grant Hill. His experience and veteran leadership is key to the success of the Magic.

If he can play the full season and into the playoffs, with steady improvements from the youngsters, who knows what might happen.

This is the Eastern Conference.............

Took the words out of my mouth. Anyone watching the game could see that Darko's man was missing shots versus Darko causing misses.
we just disagree. i think a hand in the face does cause players to miss. it isn't just coincidence that when darko's hand is up by most players that they miss. that's why players are taught to put a hand in the face.


Darko has had stellar defensive performances in the past, though. This just wasn't one of them. He was not impressive by any means. The Pistons didn't go inside because our guards were torching the imposing guards. Detroit took advantage of the mismatch.

or you could say the pistons didn't go inside because it was easier to score against jameer than darko. you could dismiss it if it was only sheed that missed shots inside but it was mcdyess as well. i agree darko wasn't dominant defensively this game but he was definitely solid.


The real question to ask is why Darko wasn't able to gobble up more rebounds? During the time he was on the court, he was easily the biggest player on the floor and couldn't manage to pull more than 5 boards. He was outrebounded by Chauncey, Rip and Prince. Darko's inability to grab more boards when Howard was out of the game probably cost Orlando many potential possesions. The difference to be made in this game was not his handling of the bigs...who the Pistons didn't even really go to...but to dominate the boards when the Pistons went small.

i didn't see darko miss any rebounds that came to him. the ball bounces where it wants. i saw darko grab several strong rebounds.


Or to dominate offensively with up against a smaller lineup. Being able to get away with putting Tay and Maxiel on Darko was a huge advantage for the Pistons and played a large part in the 4th quarter dominance. Knowing when to adjust your game to help the team is a skill great players learn. He isn't there now and personally I don't think he ever will be.

well if he hasn't learned it shouldn't his coach?? shouldn't his coach have pounded it inside repeatedly when flip went small ball?? or is it up to darko to bring the ball up the court and post himself up?? darko doesn't get the attempts to be offensively dominant. he gets 6 shots per game about.

we just disagree. i think a hand in the face does cause players to miss. it isn't just coincidence that when darko's hand is up by most players that they miss. that's why players are taught to put a hand in the face.


I agree, except I didn't see a hand in the face until well after the ball was released.


or you could say the pistons didn't go inside because it was easier to score against jameer than darko. you could dismiss it if it was only sheed that missed shots inside but it was mcdyess as well. i agree darko wasn't dominant defensively this game but he was definitely solid.

Pistons scored on the guards when Darko was end and out of the game. And I agree it is much easier to score on Jameer than Darko. You completely missed my point about where Darko needed to contribute to get the win didn't you. I'm not surprised.


i didn't see darko miss any rebounds that came to him. the ball bounces where it wants. i saw darko grab several strong rebounds.

Oh, I get it. Darko doesn't get rebounds because the ball doesn't like to bounce his way. That's creative. We'll just ignore the fact that he hasn't been an efficient rebounder all season if that makes you feel more comfortable. Perhaps he can ask Dwight Howard how he gets the ball to bounce near him. lol. Bballjay, you literally do have an excuse for everything. You're too far gone man. Too far gone.


well if he hasn't learned it shouldn't his coach?? shouldn't his coach have pounded it inside repeatedly when flip went small ball?? or is it up to darko to bring the ball up the court and post himself up?? darko doesn't get the attempts to be offensively dominant. he gets 6 shots per game about.

Nope, its up to Darko to get open and stop doing his impression of the stiff Indian dude from one flew over the coocoo's nest. When he did get the ball he couldn't even score on Maxiel or Tay..so why pass it to him?

By the way, if Darko's good games always seem to be controversial, doesn't that tell you something?

You guys can argue this stuff all day, but it doesn't mean much because it is too small of a sample. Maybe the ball didn't bounce his way. Maybe Dice and Sheed were just cold while Darko was guarding them, etc. Since we are only talking 10 shots or so, it is not statistically significant. It could have been because of good defense or just plain missed shots. You have to look at the long term stats.

These are "on" the floor stats per 100 possessions that show how many points the Magic give up on D when each of the following players are on the court.

1) Ariza- 101.6
2) Milicic- 102.4
3) Turkoglu- 103.0
4) DHoward- 103.3
5) Arroyo- 103.4 (probably because he usually plays with #1 and #2)

The top 5 for the Pistons are:
1) Davis- 96.0 (although this is probably not stat sig. due to low mins).
2) Rip- 107.6
2) Delfino- 107.6 (tie w/ Rip)
4) Sheed- 107.7
5) Lindsay- 108.1
5) Chauncey- 108.2 (virtual tie with Lindsay)


Whatever the reason, Darko is helping on D. And it is not coming at the expense on offense for the Magic like it is for the Pistons and a player like Lindsay Hunter. The Magic score 105.7 per 100 possession with Darko out there. The Pistons only score 99 when Hunter is out there... 9 points worse than they allow!

You guys can argue this stuff all day, but it doesn't mean much because it is too small of a sample. Maybe the ball didn't bounce his way. Maybe Dice and Sheed were just cold while Darko was guarding them, etc. Since we are only talking 10 shots or so, it is not statistically significant. It could have been because of good defense or just plain missed shots. You have to look at the long term stats.

These are "on" the floor stats per 100 possessions that show how many points the Magic give up on D when each of the following players are on the court.

1) Ariza- 101.6
2) Milicic- 102.4
3) Turkoglu- 103.0
4) DHoward- 103.3
5) Arroyo- 103.4 (probably because he usually plays with #1 and #2)

The top 5 for the Pistons are:
1) Davis- 96.0 (although this is probably not stat sig. due to low mins).
2) Rip- 107.6
2) Delfino- 107.6 (tie w/ Rip)
4) Sheed- 107.7
5) Lindsay- 108.1
5) Chauncey- 108.2 (virtual tie with Lindsay)


Whatever the reason, Darko is helping on D. And it is not coming at the expense on offense for the Magic like it is for the Pistons and a player like Lindsay Hunter. The Magic score 105.7 per 100 possession with Darko out there. The Pistons only score 99 when Hunter is out there... 9 points worse than they allow!

Tashawn nobody is disputing that Darko is a good defender. My point was only that he did not play well against Detroit. His defense was not game changing and his offense was non-existent. Rebounding and points were needed by Darko to defeat the Pistons. He provided neither. If you think he had a good game as well then I will have a hard time taking you seriously going forward as it pertains to your takes on Darko.

Oh yeah, he played most of the 4th quarter and he came in on the minus side with that effort. Darko averages 7.3 pts and 4.8 rebounds for the season. We've already established that per 48 mins there are many players who are better statistically. I will go out on a limb and say that no player in the history of the game has recieved so much praise for mediocre results. If you're a Magic fan, Darko should be your 6th favorite player on the team based on contribution. If you're a Pistons fan, Darko should probably be somewhere between 6000 and 6 million.

No, I agree. My point is just that you can't judge his D by how well or poorly his opponent happened to shoot 1 game. Just because Zach Randolph went to town while Sheed was guarding him, doesn't mean that Sheed is not a good defender. We've all seen Ben get dominated from time to time. There are some very talented and streaky players in the NBA.

I think most of Darko's defensive effectiveness stems from his size and quickness advantage. Just being a 7'1" player on the floor with an ounce of athleticism changes available options for the other team. His main problem is staying on the floor so that he can press that advantage more often.

Also, I wouldn't really pin that loss to the Pistons on Darko. They missed a ton of free throws, lost a starter to injury, Chauncey had his best game of the season... and it was still a very close game. This was one of the worst teams in the East through most of last year.

Tashawn nobody is disputing that Darko is a good defender. My point was only that he did not play well against Detroit. His defense was not game changing and his offense was non-existent. Rebounding and points were needed by Darko to defeat the Pistons. He provided neither. If you think he had a good game as well then I will have a hard time taking you seriously going forward as it pertains to your takes on Darko.

i disagree. orlando has been winning with darko not scoring a lot or rebounding or lot. i would say that that isn't his role on the team. his defense was game changing because orlando went on an instant run when darko came into the game. if you say he had a bad game then i have a hard time taking you seriously going forward.


Oh yeah, he played most of the 4th quarter and he came in on the minus side with that effort. Darko averages 7.3 pts and 4.8 rebounds for the season. We've already established that per 48 mins there are many players who are better statistically. I will go out on a limb and say that no player in the history of the game has recieved so much praise for mediocre results. If you're a Magic fan, Darko should be your 6th favorite player on the team based on contribution. If you're a Pistons fan, Darko should probably be somewhere between 6000 and 6 million.

i would say in the history of the game there has been no player that has been so scrutinized without being given an oppurtunity. he hasn't even played a full season yet but he's expected to put up 20 and 10 or he's mediocre.

jmax was out of our rotation doesn't mean he isn't an impact player in this league. if jmax gets 20 minutes a game for us somehow he would open up some eyes. it's all about oppurtunity. darko can make just about any team a contender that's why i like him.

If you're a Pistons fan, Darko should probably be somewhere between 6000 and 6 million.

Only way I can see if you are a Pistons fan supporting Darko is you are still trying to stick it to the Pistons for trading him, are also an Orlando Magic fan, or are related to Darko.

Otherwise how can you not be wishing that he would have kept his but in Serbia for one more year. Darko said his experience here was a nightmere, it was not too fun for us fans either losing a #2 pick. Last #2 pick was Isiah Thomas.

Reading these posts on Darko's defense is almost describing the way Michal Curry played. Curry was also known to have this invisible force that changed the game.

Bballjay, you are unable to look at this objectively because of your love for Darko. You've proven that it really doesn't matter what he does on the court you will interpret it is as an extraordinary performance. You've obviously found your soul mate. Congrats.

Here is another player that went through a brutal learning curve and now seems to also possess that invisible force.

Kwame Brown of the Los Angeles Lakers, On Court / Off Court stats from 82games.com (http://www.82games.com/0607/06LAL12D.HTM)

He averages 9 points and 7 rebounds per game and leads his team in blocked shots. People said he had no bball IQ, fouled too much, bad attitude, poor hands, blah blah blah. It turned out, he just needed to figure it out for himself on the court.

There is nobody on his team that is even close on a +, or - basis. And it isn't because he is lighting up the stat sheet.

Here is another player that went through a brutal learning curve and now seems to also possess that invisible force.

Kwame Brown of the Los Angeles Lakers, On Court / Off Court stats from 82games.com (http://www.82games.com/0607/06LAL12D.HTM)

He averages 9 points and 7 rebounds per game and leads his team in blocked shots. People said he had no bball IQ, fouled too much, bad attitude, poor hands, blah blah blah. It turned out, he just needed to figure it out for himself on the court.

There is nobody on his team that is even close on a +, or - basis. And it isn't because he is lighting up the stat sheet.

As a number 1 first round draft pick Kwame is STILL a tremendous bust. So I guess, I would say this is a great example. Thank you. I'm more convinced than ever that Darko was a poor selection. He will never come close to the players we passed on to get him. Anyone who thinks he is better than Bosh, Anthony, Wade, J. Howard, TJ Ford, Kirk Hinrich, Luke Ridnour, Chris Kaman, Boris Diaw or even Leandro Barbosa is seriously kidding themselves.

I'm more convinced than ever that Darko was a poor selection. He will never come close to the players we passed on to get him. Anyone who thinks he is better than Bosh, Anthony, Wade, J. Howard, TJ Ford, Kirk Hinrich, Luke Ridnour, Chris Kaman, Boris Diaw or even Leandro Barbosa is seriously kidding themselves.

depends on what you want. out of all of these players only 1 has a ring. from what i've seen darko is a winner and his teams just flat out win. if you are looking for a player that just puts up stats then maybe other players are better. darko is a 7' ak47 he can do it all.

i think as a # 2 pick darko was a great pick. he's a great defensive big man and at the time the pistons hung thier hat on defense. his unselfish attitude about the game made him perfect for the pistons. defense wins championships and darko can definitely do that.

he can shoot the 3, pass, handle the rock, defend the c, pf, and some sf players. small ball doesn't matter to him because he's quick enough. he just flat out has the skills you want whenever you want them. he's just inexperienced. he also isn't playing with an experienced pass first pg like diaw. he's only played with chuckers that only leave him the scraps. i think you are making your judgement too quickly because all of those players have had more oppurtunity than darko.

Darko's career is rather young so he's inconsistent and learning. That he has a positive effect on games is encouraging...if you discount the fact that he's not on our team anymore.
If darko has IT, he'll show it next year. I wouldn't beat up on him this year. He was shelved for too long to make comparisons with his draftmates.

he can shoot the 3
My friend, Darko *may* be able to shoot the 3, but he has yet to make one in his career. It's like saying that I can shoot the 3 (which at one time I could playing pickup ball), but I haven't hit one yet in the NBA. :)

My friend, Darko *may* be able to shoot the 3, but he has yet to make one in his career. It's like saying that I can shoot the 3 (which at one time I could playing pickup ball), but I haven't hit one yet in the NBA. :)

Word on the street is that he can fly too.

depends on what you want. out of all of these players only 1 has a ring. from what i've seen darko is a winner and his teams just flat out win. if you are looking for a player that just puts up stats then maybe other players are better.

Out of the players I mentioned, who on that list just puts up stats and does not contribute positively to making their teams win? This ought to be good.

My point is not that he is better than Wade, Bosh, Melo, etc. It is just that some big men take a while to hit their stride. If they are sitting on the bench, then it will take even longer.

If you want Amir Johnson to get better, then you have to play him. All the Better Basketball videos in the world won't help him if he doesn't get to experiment and apply it on the court.

I understand that you think Kwame is still a bust. However, he is way better than he was last year, so you might be surprised if you haven't watched him recently.

Word on the street is that he can fly too.

Yeah, but does he have happy feet? :)

My point is not that he is better than Wade, Bosh, Melo, etc. It is just that some big men take a while to hit their stride. If they are sitting on the bench, then it will take even longer.

If you want Amir Johnson to get better, then you have to play him. All the Better Basketball videos in the world won't help him if he doesn't get to experiment and apply it on the court.

I understand that you think Kwame is still a bust. However, he is way better than he was last year, so you might be surprised if you haven't watched him recently.

I've seen Kwame play and I agree. He went from a top draft pick who didn't even deserve to be in the league to a top draft pick that actually helps a basketball team. Credit the Zen master for that because Kwame did actually get playing time in Washington he was just not able to thrive in that environment.

On Darko, I've never said that he wasn't serviceable just that I don't believe he will be better than the players I mentioned. To that end, I don't think he will ever win a DPOY either until he learns to rebound. 7 footers who don't rebound will find it hard to get any recognition on the defensive side of the ball.

Yeah, but does he have happy feet? :)

Exactly. lol. :)

i would say in the history of the game there has been no player that has been so scrutinized without being given an oppurtunity. he hasn't even played a full season yet but he's expected to put up 20 and 10 or he's mediocre.

i don't believe any of us have stated that expectation. its the fact you keep talking about him like he IS putting up 20 and 10 that leads us to rebut.


depends on what you want. out of all of these players only 1 has a ring. from what i've seen darko is a winner and his teams just flat out win.

so you consider darko an important piece of that 04 championship? thats interesting.


if you are looking for a player that just puts up stats then maybe other players are better. darko is a 7' ak47 he can do it all.

i don't believe i've seen darko ever put anything close to a 15-10-5-3-3 line. If I had, he'd definitely be on my fantasy team.


he also isn't playing with an experienced pass first pg like diaw. he's only played with chuckers that only leave him the scraps. i think you are making your judgement too quickly because all of those players have had more oppurtunity than darko.

dude, theres only 1 steve nash, and out of all 500 or so NBA players out there, only 13 or so are lucky enough to play with him. you can't compare every PG to nash because that is silly.

and if you are referring to billups in that comment then its irrelevant because darko was never on the floor at the same time as billups. if darko was on the floor that meant it was garbage time. which means chauncey was resting on the bench after working damn hard for that 20 point lead.
arroyo was never a chucker and garnered more pleasure from assists than scoring. he put up 7 assists in 15 minutes, so which chucking PG's are you referring to please?

i don't think i've ever seen darko sweat. ever. i guess that means he's really fit.

My friend, Darko *may* be able to shoot the 3, but he has yet to make one in his career. It's like saying that I can shoot the 3 (which at one time I could playing pickup ball), but I haven't hit one yet in the NBA. :)

i haven't watched you drop 3 pointer after 3 pointer. i haven't read reports from journalists and nba scouts about you dropping 3 pointer after 3 pointer. so i don't believe that you can shoot the 3.

darko just hasn't been put in the position to shoot 3's. do you believe that if darko was in phoenix or dallas that he would shoot 3's??

i don't believe that you can shoot the 3.
Alright. That's it. Name your venue. Shirts vs. skins, and I have dibs on skins.

I hope you don't mind guarding a guy with backhair like a Persian rug.

How is that for some mental imagery?

i don't believe any of us have stated that expectation. its the fact you keep talking about him like he IS putting up 20 and 10 that leads us to rebut.

i talk about him like he can put up 20 and 10. i believe we should have developed him so he could be doing that for us in a couple of years. i disagree people started scrutinizing darko before he even had court time. i just truly believe in his potential and i'm right.


so you consider darko an important piece of that 04 championship? thats interesting.

nope. i'm just stating that everywhere darko has been his team has won. that fact can't be disputed.


i don't believe i've seen darko ever put anything close to a 15-10-5-3-3 line. If I had, he'd definitely be on my fantasy team.

just wait. he doesn't have the ball enough to put up those numbers. but for a center darko has the ability to do it. he can put up the points, rebs,assists, blocks and he's doing ok on steals.


dude, theres only 1 steve nash, and out of all 500 or so NBA players out there, only 13 or so are lucky enough to play with him. you can't compare every PG to nash because that is silly.

steve and the phoenix system inflates a players numbers. i brought up nash because 2 players named as better picks that darko play for phoenix. we all know how well boris was doing in atlanta.


arroyo was never a chucker and garnered more pleasure from assists than scoring. he put up 7 assists in 15 minutes, so which chucking PG's are you referring to please?


arroyo has turned into a chucker in orlando. jameer doesn't pass to darko either.

i didn't see darko miss any rebounds that came to him. the ball bounces where it wants. i saw darko grab several strong rebounds.

:pound: :pound: :pound:

nope. i'm just stating that everywhere darko has been his team has won. that fact can't be disputed.

..even though its irrevelant. Sorta like saying that every MVP in the history of the game has had eyebrows. And you wonder why its hard to take your points seriously.